Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 111408 times)

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1950 on: October 25, 2020, 03:46:24 PM »
Why is everyone building an electric pickup truck?
Tesla's Cybertruck, GM's $113,000 Hummer, Ford's (e)F-150—then there are the startups.
Quote
Who's buying this, again? —
The electric pickup trucks are here. Or almost here, at least.

General Motors dropped a pretty penny to debut its new electric Hummer during the World Series on Tuesday, with a 2 minute, 15 second ad that took up an entire commercial break. But you won’t be able to drive the $112,595 truck off the lot until at least next fall. Tesla staged a smashing reveal for its Cybertruck pickup nearly a year ago, but it hasn’t yet built the factory in Texas that will make the thing—reservation holders can probably expect their truck late next year. Other contenders on the horizon include the Rivian R1T, which, after delays, should show up around June; the Lordstown Endurance (sometime in 2021); the Bollinger B2 (probably next year); the Ford F-150 EV (due mid-2022); and the Nikola Badger (thanks to the company’s leadership troubles, who knows). The competition for the hearts and minds of the American electric pickup truck buyer is bound to be intense.


For automakers, pickups are a great opportunity: they have high margins and are more profitable than most other passenger vehicles. The rash of startups making electric pickups and SUVs is not an accident. Their higher prices make it easier to “hide” the upfront costs of research, development, and batteries than with a cheaper sedan or compact.

Plus, pickups—albeit less expensive ones—are the most popular cars in America. Rule the electric pickup market, the logic goes, and you rule the future. “If suddenly everyone wants an electric truck, that would put automakers already making them in a favorable position,” says Caldwell, the Edmunds analyst. No one wants to be left behind.

Still, today’s electric pickup might not be the breakthrough vehicle that the EV faithful were waiting for. To win the US market, you will eventually have to reach beyond car nerds and the folks who are prepping for dystopia.

To move the world from gas can to plug, automakers will need to convince the everyday driver to change their behavior, Caldwell says—to take a chance on a still unpopular technology, to remember to charge overnight or at work, to figure out where the local charging station is, if it even exists. “It’s one thing to get enthusiasts excited about this vehicle,” Caldwell says. “But if you can’t get mainstream consumers excited, what’s the point?”
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/why-is-everyone-building-an-electric-pickup-truck/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1951 on: October 29, 2020, 01:20:42 PM »
Chevrolet Will Sell Aftermarket Electric Powertrains for Homebuilds
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/chevrolet-readies-an-electric-crate-motor-for-homebuilt-ev-hotrods/

The Electric Connect and Cruise package goes on sale in the second half of 2021 and includes a Bolt EV 200 hp (150kW) motor, battery pack, DC-to-AC inverter, a DC-to-DC converter, wiring harnesses, controllers, and water pumps for battery heating and cooling. It's also putting together a certification program for installers, beginning with Lingenfelter Performance Engineering—builder of wild Corvettes—in Michigan.

In time will also offer Ultium battery packs.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/03/general-motors-announces-new-battery-platform-claims-100kwh-soon/

-----------------------------------------

... add a Cruz AI self-driving module and your Model T can drive itself
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1952 on: October 29, 2020, 01:40:19 PM »
That Ultium article is from March and talks about Tesla "closing in on" $100 per kw/h.  Not quite the link to put in after battery day.

Whilst these kits will revise a few thousand fossil burners into clean EV's and even give it a worthy performance boost, the goal has to be around hundreds of millions rather than a few thousand toy kits.

Laudable as it is to even try to do it, it smacks a lot of marketing kudos in place of transitioning their current high volume manufacturing to EV.

If it were a start up doing this I'd be cheering.  A major manufacturer who seems to have given up on competing in the high volume EV space?  Not so much so.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1953 on: October 29, 2020, 07:58:26 PM »
—- COVID and car factories
Detroit automakers keep masks on to keep the factories running
Quote
“We have people testing positive, but it’s not affecting operations,” said Ford global manufacturing chief Gary Johnson.

Keeping the pandemic at bay has pushed the automakers and 156,000 U.S. factory employees represented by the United Auto Workers into unfamiliar work routines and extraordinary levels of cooperation among rivals that will have to be sustained for months to come.

For automakers, the automakers’ COVID response has been as much about instilling new habits as relying on new technology. Workers log their symptoms, or lack of them, into smartphone apps and walk past temperature scanners to get to their work stations.

But company and union executives said masks, along with physical distancing, are the key to keeping assembly lines rolling. ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-autos-factories-idUSKBN27C1IG


—- Full Self-Driving?
A long read, discussing game theory, cooperation, renegade humans, exceptions and emergencies, and regulators.
Self-Driving Cars Can Also Self-Design A Whole New Traffic Code
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2020/10/27/self-driving-cars-can-also-self-design-a-whole-new-traffic-code/

    —- Mixed messages from Mercedes
Mercedes-Benz throws in the towel on self-driving efforts: ‘We can no longer win’
Speaking with local media, a Mercedes-Benz spokesman noted that the company will no longer be competing in a race that it would lose. “We don’t compete in any race that we can no longer win,” the spokesman said.
Update: Head of Digital Transformation at Daimler AG Sascha Pallenberg has noted on Twitter that the report from RedaktionsNetzwerk Deutschland (RND) is false, and that Mercedes-Benz’s autonomous program is still ongoing.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-mecrcdes-benz-quits-autonomous-driving/amp/

Waymo partners with Daimler to develop self-driving delivery trucks
October 27, 2020
Quote
Waymo today signed a partnership with Daimler to develop autonomous trucks, the companies announced in a press release. A driverless, Waymo-powered version of Daimler’s Freightliner Cascadia will become available to U.S. customers within the next few years, with other markets and brands to follow. ...
https://venturebeat.com/2020/10/27/waymo-partners-with-daimler-to-develop-self-driving-delivery-trucks/


—- More chargers!
Europe must expand chargers to catch up with electric car sales: industry
Quote
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Europe’s rollout of vehicle charging points is not keeping up with the strong growth in electric car sales, an industry group said on Wednesday, warning that a lack of infrastructure could hamper future sales of low-emission vehicles.

Sales of battery and plug-in hybrid cars in the European Union and Britain reached 458,915 vehicles last year, 110% more than in 2017, the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA) said.  The number of charging points grew by 58% over the same period, however, to just shy of 200,000.

“This is potentially very dangerous, as we could soon reach a point where growth of electric vehicle uptake stalls if consumers conclude there are simply not enough charging points where they need to travel, or that they have to queue too long for a fast charger,” ACEA Director General Eric-Mark Huitema said in a statement.

While the coronavirus pandemic has sent overall car sales tumbling this year, combined sales of battery and plug-in hybrid models have increased - helped by tougher EU car emissions standards, and national support schemes to boost post-pandemic recovery. …
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electric-idUSKBN27D2AR


—- EVs on the way
Oct 22
   —- Volkswagen ID.4 All-Electric Crossover Spotted In Phoenix, Arizona
It's coming to America! We already knew that, but it's nice to see it here anyhow.
https://insideevs.com/news/450367/volkwagen-id4-eletric-suv-out-driving-arizona/amp/

   —-  GM’s Hummer EV is Revealed
Inside Clean Energy: The New Hummer Is Big and Bad and Runs on Electricity
Quote
This week, General Motors revealed the first vehicle in a revival of the brand, a truck that is big, powerful and, maybe most audacious, all-electric.  The new Hummer made its debut Wednesday with the release of a five-minute film, in which the environmental benefits of the EV are secondary to its raw power.

"Introducing the world's first all-electric supertruck, the revolutionary GMC Hummer EV, with no limits, no emissions and no equals," the film's narrator says over the propulsive beat of a  Led Zeppelin cover. "It will leave everything you thought possible in a cloud of dust."
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/21102020/inside-clean-energy-electric-vehicle-hummer?amp
   
SMR points out the small print that says the truck is simulated throughout the film. Things devolve from there.
“Tbh, this is meaningless vaporware addressing a tiny market and is a non-serious attempt by GM to gain some EV cred while maintaining a business build upon internal combustion engine vehicles which pollute and will ultimately bankrupt GM who should have been all-in on EVs for a decade.”
GMC Hummer EV Reveal …
➡️https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhaia2frqCQ


—-  What EV excitement looks like to a Fremont, California county supervisor ;)
Quote
Scott Haggerty (@scott_haggerty) 10/26/20, 6:03 PM
Excited about a 100% electric vehicle with zero emissions this shared autonomous vehicle will soon be carrying passengers. It's an efficient and innovative way to move people in an environmentally friendly way.
#AlamedaCounty
https://twitter.com/scott_haggerty/status/1320848601531052033
⬇️Photo below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1954 on: October 30, 2020, 02:27:06 AM »
Europeans Bought More Electrified Vehicles Than Diesels In September — For The First Time In History
Quote
In Europe, people bought more electrified vehicles — electric vehicles and hybrids — than diesel vehicles in September, according to JATO Dynamics. This is a first. The pandemic has already left jagged scars on the automotive industry as well as other industries across the globe. 

JATO noted that new car sales dropped by 29% during the first 9 months of 2020 in Europe. The largest hit, however, was taken by vehicles with diesel, which made up 24.8% of market share last month. If you compare the market share data for diesel in 2020 versus 2010, vehicles with diesel made up 50% of the total registrations back then, twice as much

Data from JATO Dynamics showed that:
   •   Volkswagen Group was the biggest winner of the month, partly because of its new EVs.
   •   The Volkswagen ID.3 has had an impressive start.
   •   The Tesla Model 3 is the top selling electric vehicle, with more than 3 times as many sales as the top selling plug-in hybrid in September but barely more sales than the top selling mild hybrid.

JATO Dynamics noted that this is a clear sign that Europe is ready for an electric revolution — one that has already started. Felipe Muniz, Global Analyst at JATO Dynamics, pointed out that the shift from internal combustion engine vehicles to EVs is happening. “The shift from ICEs to EVs is finally taking place. Although this is largely down to government policies and incentives, consumers are also now ready to adopt these new technologies,” he said. …
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/10/29/europeans-bought-more-electrified-vehicles-than-diesels-in-september-for-the-first-time-in-history/amp/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1955 on: October 30, 2020, 01:03:18 PM »
People are worried about zones like the London ULEZ, which will allow Euro6 today, but what it will allow in 2 years is not known.  Nobody really wants to be stuck with a vehicle they can't use and have to sell off.

Nice to see it going EV rather than petrol though.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1956 on: November 01, 2020, 05:20:00 PM »
Waymo shares in-depth details of self-driving car activity in Phoenix
It was involved in 18 minor accidents from 2019 up until the first nine months of 2020.
Most accidents were caused by the other, human operator.
Quote
Waymo’s vehicles have driven a total of 6.1 million miles in Phoenix, Arizona, where it first started testing its self-driving technology. That’s merely one of the many, many things the Alphabet-owned autonomous vehicle company has revealed in an in-depth report that details its activities in the Phoenix metro area. Apparently, 65,000 miles of that overall total were accomplished with no human driver behind the wheel. Also, from 2019 up until the first nine months of 2020, Waymo’s vehicles were involved in 18 minor accidents and 29 situations wherein the human driver had to seize control to avoid potential collisions.

The company’s vehicles were involved 16 rear-enders, eight of which were caused by other drivers crashing into them while they’re stopped or gradually decelerating for traffic ahead. Five of those events were caused by other drivers crashing into the vehicles while they’re slowing down to turn. Waymo was the striking vehicle in only one instance, wherein another vehicle swerved into the lane in front of it and hit the brakes hard.

There were three instances wherein a Waymo vehicle was struck by a bicycle or a pedestrian while it’s stationary. In two cases, a vehicle reversed into a Waymo while it’s not moving and moving below speed limit. Finally, the single head-on crash in the list happened at night while the other vehicle was traveling in the wrong direction. The company says nobody was seriously injured in any of the cases. “Nearly all events... involved one or more road rule violations or other driving performance deviations by another road user,” the company wrote.

Waymo said it’s releasing this information for the sake of transparency, since its vehicles are operating on public roads. It’s hoping the data can help inform policymakers, promote awareness and “foster greater public confidence in automated vehicles.” Earlier this year, the Partners for Automated Vehicle Education conducted a survey and found that a lot of Americans still don’t trust self-driving technologies. Waymo opened its driverless taxi service to the public in Phoenix earlier this month, and it needs to show the public its technology can be trusted if it’s to expand to more locations.
https://www.engadget.com/waymo-indepth-details-selfdriving-activities-phoenix-163000481.html

Waymo Public Road Safety Performance Data
https://storage.googleapis.com/sdc-prod/v1/safety-report/Waymo-Public-Road-Safety-Performance-Data.pdf


Elon Musk, 10/31/20, re Tesla FSD:
Faults will never be zero, but at some point the probability of a fault will be far lower than that of the average human
< How fast do you think you will be rolling out updates for FSD beta
Elon Musk:
Every 5 to 10 days
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1322435853348671488
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1957 on: November 01, 2020, 08:53:39 PM »
—- Electric Trucks

This Bloomberg video was published Oct. 13, 2020 yet shows Nikola products being as likely to dominate as any others. ::)
The Electric Pickup Truck War Is Here - YouTube
➡️https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6Ah3qpjLME
“The electrification of the pickup truck, America's most beloved automobile, could finally jolt EVs fully into the U.S. mainstream. It also promises a huge payday for the companies that can make them affordable. The players in this potentially lucrative market aren't just the traditional, deep-pocketed automakers, mind you: there's a batch of well-funded startups going head-to-head in the coming fight.”

—-
Oct 22
After the “reveal”:
GM Admits It Doesn't Have A Production-Intent GMC Hummer EV Yet
https://insideevs.com/news/450345/gm-admits-no-gmc-hummer-ev-exists-yet/amp/
Well, it sort of does, but it’s a “display vehicle” and is “not fully functional.”

—- Nikola
CNBC went to Arizona for an update, and Nikola couldn’t get their two-year-old Nikola 2 truck to start. In remote interviews, management was not exactly forthcoming.
What’s really going on at Nikola — an inside look at the truck maker mired in controversy
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/31/whats-happening-at-nikola-inside-the-controversial-truck-maker-.html
Article with 22min vid

And here’s SMR’s review of CNBC’s video:
The Downfall Of Nikola: Badger Gone, Deceit Remains
➡️https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XOMRyR1R1Q

SOURCES ◆ Inside Nikola, The One-Time Wall Street Darling Mired In Controversy #https://youtu.be/EwAMbfif2Io
In this video I discuss, react to and share my opinions on clip from a CNBS piece on the future of Nikola Motor, the Nikola Badger, fraud allegations and more.


—-
Workhorse CFO Steve Schrader On The Status Of The USPS Contract, Delivery Guidance, And What Stands In Their Way
https://m.benzinga.com/article/18108750
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1958 on: November 01, 2020, 09:05:55 PM »
—- VW
Quote
Alex:
VW YTD 2020 versus 2019
-16.7% Revenue
-18.7% unit sales
-87.5% profit
And you express your satisfaction for the year 2020?
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1322100787334492160

Volkswagen Group (@VWGroup) 9/30/20, 4:08 AM

Volkswagen confirms outlook for 2020 and underscores future investments:
• #VWGroup continues to expect positive operating result for 2020 
• Upward trend anticipated to continue for the remainder of the year
• Investments in e-mobility and digitalization confirmed
https://twitter.com/vwgroup/status/1311216256138305537

Alex:
Volkswagen declares a win for Q3 while losing big time for 2020.
I would be fine if Q3 would be an inflection point but VW is guiding lower for next year too.
Strange move but well ... trying to keep shareholders
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1322102368255774721 


—- Legacy Automakers
I am reminded of Musk’s mantra during Tesla’s early days:  No one is going to pay $100,000 for a Civic or a Corolla.

SMR on Ross Gerber’s interview.
Tesla Bull: Legacy Automakers Will Be Wiped Out - YouTube
➡️https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVOlwic4jQ4
In this video I react to, add commentary and share my opinions on Ross Gerber's Yahoo Finance appearance following Tesla's Q3 2020 earnings (huge!).


—- Polestar: second recall in a month
Oct 1:
New Polestar 2 owners received warning issues on their drive systems, followed by the car stopping to work suddenly due to a software issue. Some never even received a warning.  Polestar 2 does not yet have OTA updates to fix software bugs.

Oct 30:
All polestars 2 need to go back to the dealer because of a faulty inverter and back coolant system. The Tesla killer is killed. Also a sales ban in France! …
https://twitter.com/sjoerd87777991/status/1322101547917053952

https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1322097843947986944
⬇️Automotive News. Image below.

—-
Not. Even. Trying.
Quote
When you can’t make a 2 door Mini Cooper more fuel efficient than a long range Model X your days are numbered.

Efficiency is everything in an EV.
It affects range, charging rate, and cost to fuel. 
https://twitter.com/dougdstecklein/status/1321435766766084100
⬇️ EPA comparison image below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1959 on: November 01, 2020, 09:14:31 PM »
—- A Tesla owner checks out the competition ;)
Quote
Earl: 
Local Audi / Porsche dealership:
https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1321835598668308482
⬇️ Textpic below.

< Did you literally text them so you could publicly bash them on Twitter for their slow ass charging speeds?
Earl:  Correct
<< Hey I'm surprised they even knew how to answer the question

The charging process: Quick, comfortable, intelligent and universal
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/taycan/charging-18558.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1960 on: November 02, 2020, 02:53:18 PM »
—- Honda joins Fiat Chrysler in pooling its fleet with Tesla’s to comply with Europe’s tougher emissions standards for passenger cars this year
Honda Joins Fiat in Tapping Tesla for Europe Emission Compliance
November 2, 2020, 6:33 AM EST
Quote
Honda Motor Co. has joined Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV in pooling its fleet with Tesla Inc.’s to comply with Europe’s tougher emissions standards for passenger cars this year.

Honda was newly added as of last week to a European Commission filing in which manufacturers declare their intent to join together in meeting greenhouse-gas emissions standards. Fiat Chrysler had already reached an agreement to pool its fleet with Tesla’s.

European Union rules that took effect this year force manufacturers to reduce the average emissions of the fleet of cars they sell in the region to 95 grams of CO2 per kilometer, or face hefty fines. As a result, companies have been introducing new plug-in hybrid and fully electric models, and those that are at risk of falling short of compliance have paired up with peers who are better positioned.

Last week, Volvo Cars announced it will overachieve in meeting the regulations and allow Ford Motor Co. to pool with its fleet* for an undisclosed sum. Fiat Chrysler Chief Executive Officer Mike Manley told analysts last week that the company was locked into an agreement to pay Tesla through next year for its help meeting emissions standards.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-11-02/honda-joins-fiat-in-tapping-tesla-for-europe-emission-compliance

*But do an OEM’s EVs count for compliance if they don’t, you know, run?
Quote
Polestar: second recall in a month....
New Polestar 2 owners received warning issues on their drive systems, followed by the car stopping to work suddenly due to a software issue...
All polestars 2 need to go back to the dealer because of a faulty inverter and back coolant system...


—-
The EVs are Coming
From Ford and GM to startups like Rivian, automakers are dialing up dozens of new electric vehicles to challenge Tesla for a battery-powered future. Will Americans buy them?
Quote
The Nissan Leaf was a shoo-in for success. The Chevrolet Bolt, a can't miss. The Audi e-tron, an EV that would show Tesla what the big boys can do. Early on, those electric models were lauded as game changers, but the game didn't change.

Electric vehicles have had a rough go of it in the U.S. The Leaf, one of the most popular non-Tesla EVs on sale today, had its best year in 2014, moving a middling 30,200 cars. (For reference, Nissan sold more than 400,000 Rogues here in both 2017 and 2018.) Even with Tesla doing a booming business, selling an estimated 223,200 vehicles last year, overall EV sales in the U.S. actually fell from 2018 levels. And apart from Tesla, no other automaker has delivered a true EV hit, despite a decade of attempts.

Showroom failures haven't dimmed enthusiasm, though. If anything, automakers appear emboldened, promising an unprecedented number of entrants into this field in the next decade. Market research firm AutoPacific counts a remarkable 90 to 100 new electric nameplates coming to U.S. showrooms by 2030.

The U.S. represents only a fraction of the EV-buying world. In 2019, China's car market was about 50 percent larger than ours, and consumers in that country bought three and half times as many EVs as people did here. …
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a34497920/the-evs-are-coming/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1961 on: November 02, 2020, 08:43:22 PM »
Oct 30, 2020
EV Core Efficiency Table - Updated!
https://twitter.com/matty_mogul/status/1322278871841034245
⬇️ First table below

Core efficiency per dollar.  Data from the original author.
https://twitter.com/rahul02031995/status/1322417400197775360
⬇️ Second table below.

Added double power to Range.
https://twitter.com/rahul02031995/status/1322433580685959168
⬇️ Third table below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1962 on: November 05, 2020, 07:19:08 PM »
As the article notes, this is despite the October Polestar recalls, and no Tesla ship deliveries!
Sweden Hits New Record With Massive 36.2% Plugin Market Share In October
Quote
October in Sweden saw a huge new record of 36.2% plugin electric vehicle market share, up 3x from 12% in October 2019. As usual, plugin hybrids made the largest contribution, though the 8.2% share of pure electrics was very substantial in its own right. The full year result is now tracking to reach at least 30%. …
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/05/sweden-hits-new-record-with-massive-36-2-plugin-market-share-in-october/amp/

—-
ID.3 Unable To Save VW As Carmaker Expects To Miss 2020 EU CO2 Reduction Target And Will Face Fines
 November 3, 2020
Quote
The Volkswagen Group believes a fine is inevitable as it anticipates failure in hitting its 2020 mandated target for CO2 emissions reductions in the EU.

This failure would come despite the carmaker’s recent pooling deal with MG Motor. The launch of the ID.3 fully electric hatchback hasn’t ensured carbon compliance either, mostly because of all the software issues it faced before its debut. Orders for the ID.3 have so far jumped north of 40,000 units, reports Autonews Europe.

“We cannot provide a clear commitment at this point that we will achieve compliance. It will be a difficult race,” said VW Group sales boss Christian Dahlheim. Meanwhile, the company’s finance chief, Frank Witter, told analysts that VW has already set aside funds to cover the likely costs of the fine.

“We have (booked) a couple hundred million in provisions to be on the safe side,” he stated. …
https://www.carscoops.com/2020/11/id-3-unable-to-save-vw-as-carmaker-expects-to-miss-2020-eu-co2-reduction-target-and-will-face-fines/

—-
Ford rules out an electric Super Duty pickup truck
Quote
As Ford continues work on the electric F-150 pickup due in two years, the automaker ruled out extending battery power to its heavy-duty line of trucks. According to remarks from Kumar Galhotra, Ford's president, Americas and International Markets Group, the simple answer is "no."

The Detroit Free Press reported on his remarks during a recent forum where Galhotra added the automaker doesn't have plans "at the moment" to bring a totally electric Super Duty truck to market. Ford confirmed such a vehicle is not in the cards. …
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-ford-super-duty-pickup-truck/

—-
Uber, gig economy companies see California win as national model
Quote
(Reuters) - Gig economy companies want to turn California voters’ decision to make ride-service drivers contractors into a model for the nation, as several states consider requiring drivers from Uber, Lyft and rival services be treated as employees with higher compensation.

Voters in California on Tuesday approved a ballot proposal by Uber Technologies Inc, Lyft Inc and its allies that cements app-based food delivery and ride-hailing drivers’ status as independent contractors, rather than employees.
https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-gigworkers/update-5-uber-gig-economy-companies-see-california-win-as-national-model-idUSL4N2HQ3K3
This will help keep companies’ costs down, but robotaxis will still be much cheaper to operate.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1963 on: November 06, 2020, 02:16:41 PM »
So VW is selling the ID.3 warts and all.  A test drive and a whole bunch of errors come up.  Also it falls 40 miles short of the range.

Oh and the reviewer recommends shortlisting even when the reviewer believes VW can't get the max battery in without losing a seat....



Nice to know the competition is trying really, Really, hard.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1964 on: November 07, 2020, 01:58:24 PM »
Bentley Will Ditch Internal Combustion Engines by 2030
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/11/bentley-will-ditch-internal-combustion-engines-by-2030/

Time is starting to run out for vehicles powered purely by internal combustion engines, and the auto industry knows it. This week Bentley, that bastion of British luxury, became the latest OEM to set a date for that happening—the year 2030. As the company moves into its second century, it has revealed a new plan called "Beyond 100" that it says will "reinvent every aspect of its business to become an end-to-end carbon neutral organization.

Bentley already introduced a plug-in hybrid EV version of the Bentayga SUV and next year it plans to add another pair of PHEVs to its roster—presumably the Continental GT coupe and Flying Spur sedan. In 2025, the company plans to introduce a battery electric vehicle; Bentley CEO Adrian Hallmark told Autoweek that "you've got to pick a point in time where battery power density, especially for bigger cars, is the liberator for us. We've always said that the mid-2020s is the time when you can expect to see 120-plus kilowatt-hour batteries coming through the supply chain."

2025 will also be the last year you'll be able to buy a Bentley that doesn't plug in, because in 2026 the brand is dropping everything other than PHEVs and BEVs. In 2030, those PHEVs will be gone, too, leaving just BEVs to wear the winged B badge with pride. Along the way, Bentley is also pledging to reduce its factory's environmental impact and go plastic neutral.

Developing that new BEV shouldn't be too hard, as Bentley will be able to take advantage of the new PPE electric car platform being developed by Audi and Porsche (which, like Bentley, are both owned by Volkswagen Group). And while I'm prognosticating, I'd say that the announcement of the Beyond 100 plan should put paid to rumors that VW Group is putting Bentley up for sale.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1965 on: November 09, 2020, 04:35:49 PM »
Bentley is known as the “world’s largest producer of 12-cylinder petrol engines.”  That the company is announcing a transition to EVs is significant.  Whether it will survive, however, is a big question.

Bentley And Aston Martin Will Be Too Late For Electric Revolution
Quote
Bentley has just announced that it finally has a strategy for switching to EVs. The problem? The company isn’t aiming to go fully electric until 2030. Around the same time as Bentley’s declaration, Aston Martin also revealed how far behind on EVs it is, stating that it will have a battery-electric product by 2026, probably based on the Mercedes-Benz EQS platform. These manufacturers don’t seem to have noticed how fast the market is moving, and how quickly people are switching over. Or maybe they’re just still in denial.

The European market is clearly going to be a key one for EV sales globally. Japanese EV motor manufacturer Nidec is getting ready to supply the expected upsurge in Europe, having just announced plans to spend $1.9 billion on a factory in Serbia. This could provide an annual output of between 200,000 and 300,000 units. Chinese manufacturer NIO is also rumored to be about to launch in Europe in 2021, and could be doing so using a car boasting a 150kWh battery pack and 900km of range. There is a host of battery production plants in the pipeline, too, getting ready to supply the expected 24gWh of battery production the European market will need.

Pledging EVs in six years or a decade from now is too little too late. If predictions hold true for battery pricing, and we really do see price-parity BEVs in 2023 or so such as a $25,000 Tesla, there will already have been a tipping point for BEV sales. They will be mainstream vehicles sooner than many expect. The idea that Aston Martin won’t even have an electric product in the market until 2026 defies belief. There was supposed to be an electric version of the Rapide luxury four-door, called the RapidE, but that was cancelled in January. The famous British car brand has its partnership with Daimler for Mercedes-AMG engines, but that company is behind the curve on EV development too. …
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2020/11/07/bentley-and-aston-martin-will-be-too-late-for-electric-revolution/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1966 on: November 09, 2020, 04:48:40 PM »
Toyota CEO attempts Tesla analogy and fails: ‘They aren’t really making something that’s real’
November 6, 2020
Quote
Tesla recently received some subtle shade from Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda, who noted that while the American EV maker is leading the auto segment in market value, it would be a mistake to underestimate the fact that the Japanese veteran has built over 100 million cars over the decades. Toyoda’s statement stands as a rare instance when the CEO issued direct comments about a competitor.

During an online briefing on Friday, the CEO stated that Toyota is indeed losing to Tesla when it comes to share price and market cap. However, the executive argued that Tesla still has a long way to go before it could rival Toyota’s scale and experience. Interestingly enough, Toyota used an analogy to emphasize his point.

“Tesla says that their recipe will be the standard in the future, but what Toyota has is a real kitchen and a real chef. We are losing when it comes to the share price, but when it comes to products, we have a full menu that will be chosen by customers,” he said, as per a report from Automotive News Europe. …
https://www.teslarati.com/toyota-ceo-fails-tesla-metaphor/

—-
The Porsche Taycan is so popular in the US that it helped Porsche recover
https://www.slashgear.com/the-porsche-taycan-is-so-popular-in-the-us-that-it-helped-porsche-recover-07646163/

—-
Kandi America Receives Certification From EPA, Electric Vehicles Cleared for U.S. Roads
Nov 4, 2020

Quote
Kandi America, the U.S. subsidiary of Kandi Technologies Group, it has received the required clearance from the United States Environmental Protection Agency for its two EV models – the K23 and K27 – via Certificates of Conformity.

“What a milestone for Kandi. By way of this final certification requirement, we can officially bring to market America’s most affordable electric vehicles,” said Johnny Tai, CEO of Kandi America. “We are in the process of finalizing our fulfillment plans and look forward to seeing our EVs on U.S. roads very soon.”

Kandi America first announced its two vehicle models in July 2020 with the mission of making EVs accessible to all. The K27, Kandi’s smaller model, has an MSRP of $17,499. With federal tax incentives, eligible buyers can pre-order the K27 today for just $9,999.

This EPA approval also unlocks incentives from many states. Different states offer different tax incentives to EV buyers. For example, buyers in Colorado receive an additional $4,000 in state tax credit for purchasing an EV, bringing the price of the K27 down to $5,999.

Pricing for Kandi’s SUV-style EV, the K23, begins at $27,499. Factoring in federal tax incentives lowers the price to $19,999. Additional state tax credits can be applied to reduce the price to as low as $15,999.

To learn more about state tax incentives available to EV buyers, visit the U.S. Department of Energy’s Alternative Fuel Data Center.
https://electriccarsreport.com/2020/11/kandi-america-receives-certification-from-epa-electric-vehicles-cleared-for-u-s-roads/
⬇️ Photo below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1967 on: November 10, 2020, 12:02:57 AM »
Toyota has blinders on. They spent billions on fuel cells probably because it looked like a better solution for Japan. They don't have much room for renewables and will probably have to import hydrogen/or some other energy source either way. They can run it in cars directly or use it to power their grid.
The are attacking Tesla because they are starting to feel the pressure.
The part I don't really understand is why Toyota doesn't build a full electric vehicle. They could build a reasonable electric it would not be as good as a tesla but they could readily make something better than the bolt.

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1968 on: November 10, 2020, 12:51:54 AM »
What foreigners don't seem to understand and we don't explain to them about the US auto market is that here new vehicles are purchased as a status symbol by small subset of drivers. In case you think all of us are that obsessed employers who pay more than minimum often pressure people to upgrade. I had an ugly car that still ran great. When I started a new job they told me to buy a much nicer and newer car by the end of the week or I was gone. Automakers don't build cars to supply the used market they build to supply the new market which is why our vehicles are so big. In Europe a new car is often a job perk so frugal people do buy new vehicles. In the US frugal people don't buy new their is no point. They buy used a car with 3 or 4 years on it is third the price. These vehicles have 2/3 or more of their life left. That is why most new car buyers in the us won't buy city cars. So I doubt Kandi does very well here. The tax rebate you can collect is limited to the amount of federal taxes(if it included all taxes it would not be a problem). Most people who might be interested in the car are unlikely to pay 7500 in federal taxes at the mean income federal taxes come to 4800. If you have any deductions for kids, a mortgage, student loans or other deductions it would be even lower.


Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1969 on: November 10, 2020, 02:53:03 AM »
Although it’s great to see a low-priced EV in the US, I agree sales of the Kandi will likely not be robust here  — but then, I doubt Kia expects to produce mass volumes of them, anyway.  I can see a niche market for folks who just need a low-range, low-price runabout for errands and want to try new tech.  They will likely be Kia customers, who happen to see one in the dealer’s lot — so sales will depend heavily on how the dealers present them.  I wish them luck!
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1970 on: November 11, 2020, 01:42:16 PM »
Honda Wins World-first Approval for Level 3 Autonomous Car
https://techxplore.com/news/2020-11-honda-world-first-autonomous-car.html

Honda on Wednesday won approval to sell Level 3 autonomous cars in Japan, in what the automaker and Japanese authorities said was a world-first.

The auto giant said it planned to put the vehicles, capable of taking over driving in circumstances such as a busy highway, on sale before next March.

Vehicle autonomy is classified along a scale from 0-5, with 5 indicating essentially total autonomy.

The "type designation" approved by the Japanese government Wednesday "enables the automated driving system to drive the vehicle instead of the driver under certain conditions, such as when the vehicle is in congested traffic on (an) expressway," Honda said in a statement.

"Honda is planning to launch sales of a Honda Legend equipped with the newly approved automated driving equipment ('Traffic Jam Pilot') before the end of the current fiscal year," the company added.

Several automakers have already manufactured vehicles capable of Level 3 autonomy, but few countries have legal frameworks to permit their sale and use.

Japan has amended its Road Vehicle Act to allow the vehicles to be sold, and the Ministry of Land, Transport and Tourism said self-driving cars would play a key role in the country's future.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1971 on: November 11, 2020, 04:57:53 PM »
—- Mercedes ICE factory workers feel abandoned by Daimler as Tesla grows in the region
Quote
Giga Berlin / Gigafactory 4 (@gigafactory_4)11/11/20, 9:11 AM
A Mercedes factory manager switches to Tesla and the union @IGMetall states: "We cannot build the future with such soulless managers. We don't understand why such a traditional and innovative car manufacturer like the @Daimler group wants to capitulate to its American competitor"
https://twitter.com/gigafactory_4/status/1326527938477645825

https://www.igmetall-berlin.de/presse/pressemitteilungen/meldung/protest-aktion-am-donnerstag-12-november-1300-uhr-daimlerstrasse-143-12277-berlin-vor-den-werk/

Via google translate:
Quote
MERCEDES BENZ PLANT IN BERLIN: PLANT MANAGER GOES TO TESLA

Protest action on Thursday, November 12th, 1 p.m., Daimlerstrasse 143, 12277 Berlin in front of the factory gates Invitation to make statements in front of factory gate 2
      11/11/2020 igm Press releases
Yesterday it was announced that the recently resigned plant manager at the Mercedes Benz plant in Berlin will switch to Tesla. The employees at the plant in Berlin are irritated. Tomorrow IG Metall invites you to a protest in front of the plant at 1 p.m.

"We cannot build the future with soulless managers like this," says Jan Otto, Managing Director of IG Metall Berlin. “We don't understand why such a traditional and innovative car manufacturer like the Daimler group wants to capitulate to its American competitor. We want to shape the future in the factory. We are in talks with state politicians about this."

Concepts are currently being prepared with the employees that will enable the plant to continue to exist. These concepts are required by the works council, employees and IG Metall, but also from the Daimler Board of Management.

"On Thursday afternoon we will set the first sign in Berlin", Jan Otto continues. "We will make it clear that we see the change in the plant manager as treason, it is questionable whether we have not been lied to all the last time."

On December 9th, IG Metall is planning an action in Berlin together with the works council. “On December 9th, fire will rain from the sky in Berlin. We will make it clear with a major campaign that we will fight for the future of the Daimler plant in Berlin,” said Jan Otto. 

Background:
In the past few weeks, Daimler management has announced internal cost-cutting measures for all German plants and announced that it no longer wants to invest in engine production at the Mercedes Benz plant in Berlin.

The Mercedes Benz plant in Berlin is the oldest manufacturing plant of the Daimler group and with 2,500 employees one of the largest industrial employers in the Berlin-Brandenburg region. The employees in Marienfelde produce engines, engine components and transmissions on a factory area of 500,000 square meters. Berlin is part of the Powertrainwerke, which includes Untertürkheim and Hamburg.

"The announcement of the gradual cessation of production is also the wrong industrial policy signal," said Jan Otto. “It cannot do that Tesla is building a completely new plant with 10,000 jobs less than 50 kilometers from the Mercedes Benz plant in Berlin and at the same time the Daimler management can think of nothing more than to shy away from the future and set up its oldest manufacturing plant here to want to close. That is devastating for Germany's premium car brand."

Invitation to statements in front of the factory gate
Between 12:30 p.m. and 1:00 p.m., as well as after the rally, Jan Otto, first authorized representative of IG Metall Berlin, and the works council chairman Michael Rahmel stand in front of Werkktor 2, Daimlerstraße 143, 12277 Berlin (across from the Smart Building) for Statements available.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1972 on: November 13, 2020, 02:22:31 AM »
Ford CEO On Launching Electric Work Vans: 'This Is a Big Deal for Us'
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/11/12/ford-ceo-on-launching-electric-work-vans-this-is-a-big-deal-for-us.html

"This is a big deal for us because what makes us different is we are investing in commercial vehicles," Ford Motor CEO Jim Farley said of the car company's investment in all-electric work vans.

Earlier that day the company announced a new all-electric van targeting business customers, as part of its $11.5 billion investment in electric vehicles through 2022.

"Ford's bet is to electrify our commercial vehicles. We're 50% of the market in the U.S. for commercials," he said in a "Mad Money" interview after announcing the E-Transit commercial vehicle.

"We sell over a half million Transits a year around the globe, and we're going to electrify it," he said.

Ford commanded a 57% share of the North American vehicle market in the third quarter, according to its earnings report.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1973 on: November 13, 2020, 03:09:16 AM »
Quote
Ford CEO On Launching Electric Work Vans: 'This Is a Big Deal for Us'

Battery is only 76 kWh.  But it does have an outlet for power tools.

Ford unveils E-Transit electric cargo van with 126 miles of range and $45,000 price tag
https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/12/21559954/ford-e-transit-electric-delivery-cargo-van-price-specs-range
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1974 on: November 13, 2020, 09:54:27 AM »
A quick check on UK light commercial vehicle mileage (this van falls into that category), says that with a 252 day working year, average mileage is 42 miles per day.  Which sort of fits for short distance delivery vans (large cities).

But beyond that, you wouldn't be using the power outlet much.  My cousin runs a building and construction business, he drives more than 50 miles to jobs far more frequently than he drives 10 miles.  At 60 miles you wouldn't be using the power outlet at all or you wouldn't get home.  Considering there is rarely/never a charging point where he is going.

120 miles is OKish for large city delivery and, to be fair, that is by far the largest block of the work for these vans.  But it is not by far the most miles driven and miles == CO2.

Add to this the fact that on a poor winters day, stuck in rush hour traffic, wipers and lights on whilst sitting not moving, that 120 miles is going to drop fast.

I suppose it is an acceptable start, but it has restricted its possible utility from the very outset with such a small range.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1975 on: November 13, 2020, 10:09:51 PM »
ford wont hold 50% of the market if they dont do better than 126 miles of range. The rivan amazon van is shooting for 400 mile range. on the other hand 70k is more than 45k.

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1976 on: November 14, 2020, 11:27:56 AM »
It does make you wonder how possible it would be to repurpose the Cybertruck platform with a van body?

Ford may find it has a lot more competition than it bargained for.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1977 on: November 15, 2020, 04:04:51 PM »
Apparently the UK is about to make a policy decision to ban new FF car sales from 2030, brought forward from 2035.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/14/uk-expected-to-ban-sale-of-new-petrol-and-diesel-cars-from-2030

The walls are closing in on FF vehicles.

Although it does beg the question.

Just how would they produce enough batteries fo 100m cars in 2030 if the rest of the world followed suit?
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1978 on: November 16, 2020, 01:16:50 AM »
It does make you wonder how possible it would be to repurpose the Cybertruck platform with a van body?

Ford may find it has a lot more competition than it bargained for.
A standard truck frame is designed to be versitile. the cybertruck is not on a frame I suspect it would be a major undertaking and not worth it.

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1979 on: November 16, 2020, 02:06:51 AM »
Apparently the UK is about to make a policy decision to ban new FF car sales from 2030, brought forward from 2035.

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/14/uk-expected-to-ban-sale-of-new-petrol-and-diesel-cars-from-2030

The walls are closing in on FF vehicles.

Although it does beg the question.

Just how would they produce enough batteries fo 100m cars in 2030 if the rest of the world followed suit?
2030 is far enough away if companies expect the demand they can bring enough mining/production online to meet the need. If all countries announced the same goal tomorrow it would get done. The real point of making such announcements is to provide expectations to plan for.  Otherwise reluctant automakers will not survive. Any who are not already aggressively pursuing more than token electric vehicles are falling behind and unlikely to make it. Tesla plans to make an electric full self driving car for the price of a regular ice car in a few years. From the moment Tesla decides they want a new factory to the time it is starting production is less than two years. At the moment VW and several Chinese automakers seem to get this. Some at GM get it but there is too much institutional resistance to move fast enough. So far Ford is acting like the electric market will be 10% in 2030. The legacy Ford family seems to be pushing for more change. Toyota is still holding on to the notion of hydrogen. Maybe for ships and airplanes possibly long haul trucking but not for passenger vehicles.

By 2035 I do not expect anyone will be buying gas cars even without these regulations. All the new law does is provide assurance of the timetable so fence sitters know they can not wait to switch or do so half heartedly Putting the change off a few years.

KiwiGriff

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 850
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 430
  • Likes Given: 154
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1980 on: November 16, 2020, 06:31:27 AM »
I do not know about USA and Vans.
For the rest of the world Vans are not USA style  "trucks" with a box body .
Ford Transit, Toyota hi-ace, VW transporter and similar vans dominate  the worlds markets.
The s / x platform would make a suitable delivery  van .
Tesla has too much in the pipe line at present to announce even more products .
I guess within  about two years Tesla will announce a box van based on the s/x skateboard.
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1981 on: November 17, 2020, 02:21:59 AM »

there is no s/x scateboard to slap a new body onto. On the other hand i see no reason tesla can not build a van after some more pressing projects get built.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1982 on: November 17, 2020, 08:27:52 AM »
Chevrolet Recalls the Bolt EV After 5 Confirmed Battery Fires
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/11/chevrolet-issues-a-recall-for-2017-2019-bolt-evs-due-to-battery-fires/

In October, news broke that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had opened an investigation of the Chevrolet Bolt EV due to potential battery fires while charging. On Friday, Chevrolet announced a recall affecting all model year 2017 and 2018 Bolt EVs, as well as certain MY2019 Bolt EVs.

The problem involves battery packs containing cells made at LG Chem's factory in Ochang, Korea. Chevrolet says that, working with NHTSA, it confirmed a total of five Bolt EV fires caused by this issue, which occurred when charging the cars' battery packs to full capacity.

Affected owners should contact their local Chevrolet dealer to schedule the software fix, which is available later this week. The update will prevent the battery from charging beyond 90 percent, and Chevrolet says it will have a permanent fix that restores the battery's ability to use 100 percent of its state of charge as soon as possible after January 1, 2021.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1983 on: November 17, 2020, 12:28:11 PM »

there is no s/x scateboard to slap a new body onto. On the other hand i see no reason tesla can not build a van after some more pressing projects get built.

In fact  design departments do this all the time.  So I would not be surprised if Tesla already have something like this in draft pending time to finalise it.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1984 on: November 17, 2020, 12:30:11 PM »
If I recall correctly Tesla standards for cell production were so high it caused Panasonic a real problem at the beginning.  A single dent was being rejected, cells needed to be perfect.

It appears Tesla knew exactly what they were doing.  Others are still going through that learning curve.  I know pouch cells are different, but the QC constraints are not.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1985 on: November 17, 2020, 03:26:39 PM »

there is no s/x scateboard to slap a new body onto. On the other hand i see no reason tesla can not build a van after some more pressing projects get built.

In fact  design departments do this all the time.  So I would not be surprised if Tesla already have something like this in draft pending time to finalise it.
I don't doubt they could design a van readily or may even have a tenative design ready. The skateboard is a design in which the same base will be used for more than one vehicle.

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1986 on: November 17, 2020, 03:56:35 PM »
Skateboard can have an additional advantage in vans.  FWD only with independent rear suspension will allow walk in load areas with a very low step and a commensurate high ceiling, without making the van overly high.

Something to consider for interstate/city driving.

I think Tesla has enough on their plate until they get Cybertruck and Semi into production.  Roadster 2 is not critical but a nice to have.  Model 2 (or whatever they call it), plus a Transit contender would be a very good next step.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1987 on: November 18, 2020, 01:47:28 PM »
It’s happening:  U.K. ICE ban moved forward to 2030
Ban applies only to new vehicles; existing ones are still allowed.  “The sale of new diesel vans will be banned from 2030 and diesel lorries will be phased out.”

2030 petrol and diesel car ban: 12 things you need to know
Quote
THE BAN on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars has been brought forward to 2030, the UK government is to confirm today, with new hybrid car sales outlawed from 2035.

Boris Johnson is to announce the measures as part of a “green industrial revolution” that he believes will create new jobs in a low carbon economy.

The government has been tightening the timeframe for a ban on petrol and diesel cars since it first announced the idea in July 2017, when it proposed 2040 as the start date. In October 2018, the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee described that plan as “vague and unambitious”.

In February this year the prime minister said he would bring forward a ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2040 to 2035, or even sooner if a “faster transition is feasible”, and confirmed it would include hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles.

Today’s announcement will see traditional petrol and diesel cars removed from new car showrooms even earlier. ...
https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic/advice/2030-petrol-diesel-car-ban-12-things-need-know/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1988 on: November 18, 2020, 04:43:57 PM »
—- Ford flips stance on Tesla’s battery production strategy that has ‘no advantage’
November 16, 2020
Quote
Ford Motor Company CEO Jim Farley has flipped his company’s stance on whether it will produce EV battery cells for its electric cars. After previous CEO Jim Hackett stated that Tesla’s strategy to produce its own lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles had “no advantage,” Farley seems to recognize the positives of manufacturing cells and says it is “absolutely” interested in utilizing the same methods as the world’s leading electric automaker.

Farley was speaking during a recent automotive conference hosted by Reuters when he was asked about Ford’s strategy for sourcing batteries and cell materials. After a question that pointed toward Ford’s potential to produce its own cells instead of sourcing them from third-party suppliers, Farley replied, “Absolutely, we’re discussing it as a team.” … 
https://www.teslarati.com/ford-ev-battery-production-tesla-no-advantage/
 
   Translation:  We realize now that we have to do this, but we’ll never get it done before our company goes bankrupt.


—- Nikola
Nikola Aims To Close GM Deal But Has Backup Battery, Fuel Cell Suppliers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2020/11/09/nikola-aims-to-close-gm-deal-but-has-backup-battery-fuel-cell-suppliers/

Nikola Reveals SEC and Justice Department Subpoenas in September
In its quarterly SEC filing, the company said that it and founder Trevor Milton have received subpoenas related to accusations in a short-seller report
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/11/10/nikola-reveals-sec-and-justice-department-subpoena/

Quote
Jessica Meckmann  (@meckimac)11/9/20, 5:21 PM
"As a result, approximately 161 million shares of our common stock will become eligible for sale beginning on December 1, 2020 upon the expiration of the lock-up agreements described above..."
[text image at link]

To put this into perspective, those 161 million $NKLA shares are currently worth ~$3B. The public float at the moment is approximately 80 million shares. 
https://twitter.com/meckimac/status/1325926581278285827
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1989 on: November 18, 2020, 10:53:34 PM »
DHL Is Deploying Electric Class 8 Trucks In Los Angeles
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/11/dhls-deliveries-get-greener-with-new-electric-trucks-in-los-angeles/

DHL's deliveries in the Los Angeles area are going to get a little greener in time for the holiday rush. The international courier company is deploying four Class 8 trucks to the city, built for it by BYD Motors, which it will use to haul cargo between its hub at Los Angeles International Airport and its local service centers.

"By implementing these electric trucks, we will prevent more than 300 metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions from entering the atmosphere per year, as we continue to grow and enhance our clean pick-up and delivery solutions," said Greg Hewitt, CEO of DHL Express US.

... Although not every use of a heavy truck lends itself well to electrification, there's no denying that for applications that involve short-haul routes like port drayage, school buses, and garbage collection, it's a no-brainer.

Indeed, in the face of continuing inaction or even actively destructive policy at the federal level, the state is moving ahead with decarbonizing transportation within its borders. On Tuesday, the California Air Resources Board announced a new state-wide incentive called the California Clean Fuel Reward. Together with utility companies, CARB will give buyers of new battery-electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid EVs up to $1,500, separate to any other state or federal incentives.



https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07/toyotas-heavy-duty-fuel-cell-truck-project-moves-from-alpha-to-beta/

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/12/virginia-has-big-plans-for-electric-school-buses-in-2020/

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/05/seattle-makes-history-with-electric-garbage-truck/
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1990 on: November 21, 2020, 03:40:24 AM »
Tesla Semi trucks + solar installation in Connecticut, U.S.
Quote
Quote
ctrivermouth (@grizmatt) 11/20/20, 8:40 AM
Judges Farm Tesla Semi Roadmap:
Fall 2020: Install 100kw grid-connected solar on 1/3 acre of marginal land. System cost including install: $200,000.
Incentives:
1) 26% Federal tax credit, so $52,000 off our 2020 tax bill.
https://twitter.com/grizmatt/status/1329781685177753600

2/
2) Federal Dept. of Agriculture REAP grant: 25% of cost of system, so a check for $50,000 once system is up and running.

3) Eversource ZREC (Renewable Energy Credit) program. Eversource (our CT power company) to pay us $100 per 1000 kWh (1 REC) generated per yr *for 15 yrs*

3/
System will generate 134,000 kWh per year, so a total benefit of $201,000 over the course of 15 years.
Total Incentives: $303,000. We’ll actually be *making* 2.8% annual ‘return’ on the system over the 15 years. AND, we’ll also eliminate our $700/mo. current electric bill.

4/
Winter 2021: Apply for the CT DEEP VW Emissions Grant to assist in the purchase of four Tesla Semis. Connecticut’s share of the $2B VW emissions settlement was roughly $57M. Funds are earmarked to replace old diesel trucks with cleaner alternatives.

5/
If approved, we stand to receive ‘up to 60%’ of the purchase price of the trucks and associated charging infrastructure. As our delivery routes are as long as 420 miles per day, we’re opting for the long-range Semi variant, with 500 miles of fully-loaded range.

6/
Costs:
4 Semis: $720,000 ($180,000 x 4) As a farm in CT, we don’t pay sales tax.
VW Emissions Grant (60%): -$432,000
Final Cost: $288,000

Fuel Savings: Diesel Truck burns 5000 gals/yr
2 Tesla Semis will run on solar power generated at Farm.

7/
So, we’ll save $25,000 ($2.50/gal x 5000 x 2) on those 2 trucks.
2 Semis will charge off the grid, saving $12,500/yr. Assuming electricity costs roughly half that of diesel.
So annually, we'll save $37,500 on fuel costs.

8/
Maintenance Savings: 2020 diesel truck repair/maintenance was $50,000
Expect this number to be far lower for new BEV trucks, conservatively say $5000 per truck, or $20,000 per year. So save at least $30,000 annually on repair/maintenance.
$67,500 in annual savings so far.

9/
Insurance to be more with new trucks, so let’s pare that annual savings down to a round $50,000.
With the savings alone, we’ll pay off the four Semis in just 6 yrs. time.

10/Winter 2022: Take delivery of said four Tesla Semi tractors. Pinch selves. Make frequent trips via I-95 onramps to @bigyfoods to ‘break in’ trucks. ;)
#teslasemi #ElectricVehicles #trucking #SOLAR  ...
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1329781685177753600.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1991 on: November 23, 2020, 10:51:39 PM »
GM Abandons Trump Effort to Bar California Emissions Rules
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2832HF

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - General Motors said on Monday it was reversing course and will no longer back the Trump administration's effort to bar California from setting its own emissions rules in an ongoing court fight.

GM Chief Executive Mary Barra said in a letter to environmental groups it was "immediately withdrawing from the preemption litigation and inviting other automakers to join us."

The about-face came as GM sought to work with President-elect Joe Biden, who has made boosting electric vehicles (EVs) a top priority. The Detroit automaker has laid out an ambitious strategy to boost EV sales and last week said it will increase spending on EVs and autonomous vehicles by 35% from previous disclosed plans.

Barra said she believes "the ambitious electrification goals of the president-elect, California, and General Motors are aligned, to address climate change by drastically reducing automobile emissions."

... California and 22 other states and environmental groups challenged the Trump administration’s determination that federal law bars California from setting stiff tailpipe emission standards and zero-emission vehicle mandates.

The Trump administration in March finalized a rollback of fuel efficiency standards to require 1.5% annual increases in efficiency through 2026, well below the 5% yearly boosts in Obama administration rules it discarded.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1992 on: November 24, 2020, 01:52:29 AM »
GM's Barra accelerates 'all out pursuit of global EV leadership'
Quote
Chief Executive Mary Barra said the Detroit automaker is accelerating an "all out pursuit of global EV leadership," challenging electric vehicle leader Tesla Inc with increased spending and sped-up vehicle production targets.

Over time, GM plans to offer electric vehicles across its lineup, from below $30,000 to over $100,000, with a goal of "putting everyone in an electric vehicle," Barra told investors Thursday during a conference sponsored by Barclays. Barra said EVs could help GM expand sales in the United States by as much as 280,000 vehicles a year in coastal states where the company's brands are weak. "We want to be No. 1 in EVs in North America," Barra said.

GM plans to increase spending on electric and autonomous vehicles to $27 billion by 2023, up 35% from previous disclosed plans, she said. The automaker also plans to speed the launch of a dozen new electric models.

GM will boost battery-making capacity at the plant it is building in northeast Ohio with South Korea's LG Chem<051910.KS> and will increase the number of plants in which it builds electric vehicles, Barra said.

Tesla's soaring market capitalization, and growing pressure from regulators to phase out carbon-emitting gasoline engines, has put pressure on established automakers to accelerate production of electric vehicles, even though for now those models promise less profit than current trucks and SUVs. …
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/gm-boosts-ev-spending-by-35percent-moves-to-increase-battery-production/ar-BB1baQ0j

Investors finally reward General Motors’ shift to EVs even as it cuts emerging mobility plans
Quote
“They’ve done a good job cutting costs and now their top-line has really improved from the depths of where we were 6 months ago, so that’s a positive, but we argue that the stock’s also had an incredible rebound,” said Garrett Nelson, senior equity analyst at CFRA Research. “A lot of that, in our view, is already discounted in the current share price.

“Now, investors really have to weigh the reality of this pivot to electric vehicles. It’s going to be very difficult we think.”

Not everyone is buying into GM though. CFRA Research has a “sell” rating on the Detroit automaker largely based on the cost of switching its vehicle fleet to all-electric and its ability to compete against Tesla, which accounts for roughly three of every four EVs sold in the U.S. …
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/21/coronavirus-pandemic-and-evs-prove-gms-worth-to-investors.html

—-
The company that set the EV stage with the LEAF electric hatchback is in talks to make an electric pickup truck.
Report: Nissan and Detroit startup Hercules could pair up for electric truck
Quote
… the single image of the Alpha on Hercules' website looks like a current-generation Nissan Titan with a different grille, headlights, and front bumper.

That begs the question of whether this would be a true partnership, or whether Hercules is simply seeking Titan donor vehicles. Nissan has plenty of electric-vehicle experience after all, and shouldn't need the help of a small startup. However, Nissan has also been looking to cut costs amid slow sales, and may not want to invest too much in an electric vehicle that doesn't have much relevance outside the United States. 

Speaking of the Titan, it only comes with a big 5.6-liter V-8 for the 2021 model year, with EPA-rated fuel economy of 18 mpg combined (15 mpg city, 21 mpg highway). That lags behind most other full-size trucks, many of which have adopted diesels or smaller-displacement gasoline engines to improve fuel efficiency.

In September, General Motors announced that it would manufacture the Nikola Badger electric truck, although that deal, and the truck's reveal, appear to be in limbo. Ford has invested in Rivian, and has a deal to use the firm's "skateboard" platform for some future vehicles.

As electric trucks become one of the auto industry's latest buzzwords, automakers appear split on how to position these trucks.
Ford is aiming for affordability, and more of a workhorse, with its F-150 Electric. GM is aiming for a macho lifestyle image first with its GMC Hummer EV, while Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) is likely to skip an electric truck altogether at first, and go for a plug-in hybrid instead.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130385_report-nissan-and-detroit-startup-hercules-could-pair-up-for-electric-truck
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1993 on: November 24, 2020, 01:58:30 AM »
Tesla rival Xpeng to use LiDAR, deviating from lawsuit of former employee
Quote
But Xpeng’s adoption of LiDAR shows that Tesla’s sourcing code may not have been desirable to the Chinese automaker. Either that or the company couldn’t figure out what Tesla was doing with AP, as it is extremely complex and constantly improving thanks to the Neural Network. Musk stated in a Tweet on Friday morning that Xpeng has an old version of Tesla’s software, which is outdated, less complex, and not as functional as the current versions of AP. Additionally, Xpeng does not have the advantages of a Neural Network, which uses data compiled from every mile driven to improve its self-driving performance.

Musk made it clear that Xpeng was the only Chinese company that attempted to utilize Tesla’s AP source code, which was not open-sourced and was taken without the automaker’s consent. …
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-xpeng-lidar-lawsuit/

—-
Quote
Alex (@alex_avoigt) 11/22/20, 5:04 AM
German traffic Minister Scheuer (CSU) plans to allow autonomous driving vehicles [by] 2022
~ From 22 January 2021, vehicles can be approved for autonomous driving in the EU on the basis of a new rule of the (UNECE). "Autonomous lane changes are not included in this rule at the present time, however," says the KBA.
~ RDW in Netherlands is responsible for the overall vehicle approval for Tesla valid in the EU. However, according to the KBA, this responsibility does not apply to software updates that Tesla applies to its customers' vehicles.
~ "The KBA is not responsible for vehicles already in circulation, but the federal states," KBA (German traffic authority) of Transport Minister Andreas Scheuer (CSU)
~ However, the effects of the Tesla updates cannot be verified because even independent testing organizations are not prepared for them. Not even the type of sensors for a self-propelled car is prescribed, said Tüv Rhineland
~ "Instead, test scenarios are specified that a vehicle must pass - in virtual environments as well as on test tracks and in real traffic." These scenarios are still being defined by European committees and are currently being tested by test organizations.
~ "We won't be able to make a definitive statement on this until 2021.
 
In short, if we're lucky some German federal states may approve some parts of Tesla FSD excluding lane changes in Germany in 2022
Lane changes fall still under UNECE regulation
welt.de/wirtschaft/art… [ https://t.co/cLwJdGD6EI ]
< Without autonomous lane change it’s useless imo
Alex:  Agree for the Autobahn or 2 lane city streets
<< Nope without lane changes in most cities you can not even change directions because even on one lane citystreets theres at least one additional lane for turning left („Abbiegespur“) and often that applies to turning right as well. FSD without lane changes is pointless.
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1330451994692247553

—-
Ford wants US$150 for a map update, Tesla really did change the game with free OTA updates
https://techau.com.au/ford-wants-us150-for-a-map-update-tesla-really-did-change-the-game-with-free-ota-updates/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1994 on: November 24, 2020, 10:07:01 AM »
Quote
Transport & Environment Calls Out PHEV Manufacturers For Higher Than Advertised Emissions

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/23/transport-environment-calls-out-phev-manufacturers-for-higher-than-advertised-emissions/

Quote
Julia Poliscanova, senior director for clean vehicles at T&E, really puts the boots to the current PHEV fad. “Plug-in hybrids are fake electric cars, built for lab tests and tax breaks, not real driving.

I would say fine avoidance too.  Not just tax breaks.

Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18309
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 832
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1995 on: November 24, 2020, 03:57:32 PM »
Quote
Transport & Environment Calls Out PHEV Manufacturers For Higher Than Advertised Emissions

 :o  And the Outlander PHEV is a top seller!  Mitsubishi marketing has done its job too well. >:(
But perhaps the tide is shifting?  It was #20 in Europe in September.

“...if the Outlander PHEV loses the 2020 title, it will be an historic moment, as it will be the first time since 2012 that the Outlander isn't the Best Selling PHEV in Europe!”
http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/search/label/Europe
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6421
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2387
  • Likes Given: 2039
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1996 on: November 24, 2020, 05:56:37 PM »
Quote
Plug-in hybrids are fake electric cars, built for lab tests and tax breaks, not real driving.
I have come to this conclusion a while ago. And the buyers know this, I believe many of them don't even bother to plug the car to an outlet. The scam is the tax break, they just buy a high-end SUV for a discount.

WildFit

  • New ice
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1997 on: November 24, 2020, 07:56:35 PM »
Quote
Plug-in hybrids are fake electric cars, built for lab tests and tax breaks, not real driving.
I have come to this conclusion a while ago. And the buyers know this, I believe many of them don't even bother to plug the car to an outlet. The scam is the tax break, they just buy a high-end SUV for a discount.


Some people on the other hand, myself for one, plug the car to solar panels permanently and at times don't use a single drop of fuel in months for the 15-40km to the city and back occasionally.


The problem you describe certainly would apply to long distance as well as mostly highway commuters who are too lazy to plug the car in their garage or don't own a garage with a wall plug.


So yes, it happens as you describe but not only.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3724
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 653
  • Likes Given: 440
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1998 on: November 24, 2020, 09:03:01 PM »
A co-worker's husband drives a plug-in Prius which he gets to plug in (for free) at work (and he doesn't get to work from home during the COVID epidemic).  Even though the car can drive on battery-only for only 25 miles (40 km),  they very nearly never plug in at home and I'm aware of their buying gas for that vehicle only once.  I worry about the ethanol in the all-but-unused gas tank.  There is a time and place to use 'marine gas' (ethanol-free) and their car is one of the places.

I just asked, and they haven't used any gas in that car in over a year.  They are talking about draining the 'bad' gas (that first tank-full). (About time!)

They use a (relative) gas-gussler to visit their children in DC and IN.

I guess I never mentioned here that my 'slightly' electric 2002 Prius died a few months ago (it's 2nd battery pack called it quits at 260,000 km) so I donated it to charity.  (It was pretty beat up - I called it my 'truck' and hauled plywood and other building supplies on a makeshift roof rack (once even a pair of 4' x 7' (1.2 x 2 m) bookcases for a friend) and my monthly trip to the (rubbish & recyclables) 'transfer station'.  My driveway is lined with boulders carted from New England, New Mexico and other less-far-from-Florida places.)  I now drive my wife's more efficient 2015 Prius.  We definitely do not need two cars at this time.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

interstitial

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 659
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 225
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1999 on: November 24, 2020, 10:02:27 PM »
Once they flush out the bad gas they should add a fuel stabilizer or just not refill the tank.