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Archimid

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2019, 06:37:58 PM »
Why would I read an article where in the very same paragraph facts are presented in an extremely misleading way?

In climate change this is the equivalent to people that point at the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere being a fraction of a percent and presenting that as a proof that CO2 can't cause warming.

2.9% seems like a small number and the author takes full advantage of that fact, ignoring the fact that BEV market share is doubling every two years.  I'm not wasting anymore time on this particular piece of FUD.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

ASILurker

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2019, 06:38:12 PM »
and EVs saw only 2.9% of global passenger vehicle sales in 2018.

Again, context. I'm cherry picking this segment because it reflects the sentiment behind the whole piece, misrepresentation of the issue to prove a point. The EV industry is booming and it is just starting. EVs are the superior transportation method in almost every way.

Your Fallacy works like this:

I don't believe climate scientists, they are all Anti-American Lefty Socialists
That's a climate science paper.
Therefore  the whole paper is a misrepresentation of the issue to prove a point
Besides, I love our Economy and our Great nation.
Climate scientists are trying to take all that away from me.
So I am right.


There's name for this - mystical thinking
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:42:43 PM by Lurk »

ASILurker

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2019, 06:58:58 PM »
Why would I read an article where in the very same paragraph facts are presented in an extremely misleading way?

In climate change this is the equivalent to people that point at the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere being a fraction of a percent and presenting that as a proof that CO2 can't cause warming.

2.9% seems like a small number and the author takes full advantage of that fact, ignoring the fact that BEV market share is doubling every two years.  I'm not wasting anymore time on this particular piece of FUD.

What is misleading - state it - quote it.
How is it misleading - show true/false examples
Provide evidence - you know FACTS

Opinions that use labels like "misleading" and "FUD" absent specifics + evidence is what Climate science deniers do. That is exactly what you are doing now, above.

You have said nothing - shown nothing - established nothing - proven nothing - and have no evidence to support your "opinions".

You got Nothing. So you got nothing to say.

Except "I Archimid is right, so you're wrong, because I say so."

That's not rational. 

Equivalent: "I am not going to read that Climate science paper because it's all FUD by lying Climate Scientists who misrepresent the facts, so I will not waste my time on it."

PLUS then comes:
"You're as bad as the Climate Scientists are for asking me to read it, so I hate you too!"

Not rational. 100% Emotion. Zero evidence and logic involved.

Archimid

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2019, 07:16:28 PM »
Ok, I'll try a third time, but this is like the Mueller report. It clearly shows collusion and obstruction but many people refuse to see it. The same for climate change and the same for this very simple argument.

Quote
and EVs saw only 2.9% of global passenger vehicle sales in 2018.


"Only" 2.9%. The author misleads the reader to think that 2.9% is a small number because in absolute terms it is indeed a small number in terms of percent. The main point the author is trying to make is that the EV market is not growing fast and he uses this number to frame the narrative.

But in context, 2.9% is record high and growing faster than ever. EV market share is duplicating every 2 years with the largest increase happening in 2018. 2.9% is a reason for cheering for EV proponents, specially knowing all the new models from pretty much all manufacturers that are coming out in the near future.

Do you get why is misleading or are you still trapped the webs you spun?

Here just for fun, look at the EV estimates by the IEA.

https://www.iea.org/tcep/transport/evs/

Good lord, I pray they keep investing using Lurk's and the IEA advise and calculations. It will further accelerate EV adoption.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

ASILurker

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2019, 07:08:07 AM »
Ok, I'll try a third time, but this is like the Mueller report. It clearly shows collusion and obstruction but many people refuse to see it. The same for climate change and the same for this very simple argument.

Quote
and EVs saw only 2.9% of global passenger vehicle sales in 2018.


"Only" 2.9%. The author misleads the reader to think that 2.9% is a small number because in absolute terms it is indeed a small number in terms of percent. The main point the author is trying to make is that the EV market is not growing fast and he uses this number to frame the narrative.


Yeah but ....
the author is not attempting to mislead the reader into "thinking" 2.9% is  small number he is in fact telling the factual truth there. The number is 2.9%. And 2.9% is a small number.

What you are doing is falsely misleading the readers here, that because the author is telling the truth, that according to your "thinking and assumptions about another person" you are PRESUMING his INTENTIONS are specifically to mislead his readers by putting in the correct number of 2.9%

Fact is, Archimid has no idea what the author's intentions are (Archimid does not know and cannot know what is going on inside that person's mind) - but anyone can see what he did DO was to include the correct data point of 2.9% ... because anyone can go check that number and find out that it is indeed accurate and correct.

It's not the Author's responsibility if the number 2.9% is actually 2.9% - the author has no control over that, he simply the "messenger here". That 2.9% is a "small number" because LOGICALLY 2.9% is a small number. It is what it is!

It is NOT a small number because the Author is trying to mislead anyone - to say so is irrational, illogical, factually untrue and unproven.

Furthermore, the author does include the historical growth rates in the article using credible sources, as well as showing the ongoing Growth rates for EVs now and into the future out to 2030. Already mentioned a few facts they included above but seems archimid is not interested in those either.

Therefore, to form the opinion
Quote
the sentiment behind the whole piece, misrepresentation of the issue to prove a point.
is self-evidently irrational, illogical, factually untrue and unproven.

The article is not misleading or misrepresenting the facts!

Archimid is making misleading comments and misrepresenting the facts.


It is misleading to do this because of what I pointed out before by way of an analogy with Emotionally charged irrational Deniers against Climate Science: It is Mystical Thinking. It is not rational. 100% Emotion. Zero evidence and logic involved.

This is not how people need to be evaluating articles that are overflowing with accurate facts that are supported by multiple lines of accessible evidence.

IMHO the people who (for whatever reason) are being misleading or misrepresenting the facts their Posts should be ignored / taken with a massive dose of salt on this forum and not listened to until they can show that they are not pushing unfounded lies about others, misrepresenting what "articles" etc actually do say in toto, and who tend toward drawing hyperbolic conclusions / opinions based solely on their engaging in mystical thinking while ignoring all the evidence to the contrary.

And so we are back to Caveat Emptor!  Go read the article for yourself and don't allow yourself to be misled by the mystical thinkers on the ASIF, is my solid advice.

<snipped the rest of the silliness, false claims and the Hyperbole>

GoTo: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2406.msg199980.html#msg199980
(for the article URL and/or to discuss)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:57:03 PM by Lurk »

Neven

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2019, 07:12:10 AM »
Okay, back on topic, which isn't 'Other commenters' or 'You're wrong'.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Archimid

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2019, 12:56:24 PM »
As I predicted. You don't get it.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2019, 02:38:19 PM »
Quote
Steve Jobs (@tesla_truth) 5/19/19, 12:11 PM
British Columbians put in orders for an estimated 1,300 electric vehicles in a span of just two weeks, according to Blair Qualey, CEO of the New Car Dealers Association of BC.
To put that in context, a total of 3,270 EVs and hybrids sold in B.C. for the entire year in 2017”
https://twitter.com/tesla_truth/status/1130144052702093314
Quote
Walter MacVane (@EcoHeliGuy) 5/19/19, 1:34 PM
To put that in perspective this is Q1 passenger vehicle sales on British Columbia, Yukon, North West Territory’s, and Nunavut. Which majority of the volume is made up by BC. ...
https://twitter.com/ecoheliguy/status/1130164883381735424
Data image at the link.

—-
In April 2019, Plug-In Electric Car Sales In Sweden Increased 44%
https://insideevs.com/news/349957/april-2019-plugin-car-sales-sweden/amp/

——
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/19/19, 3:01 PM
U.S. Sales of @MercedesBenz crashing across the board.
"We are going to see models go away within the next 12 months," said one dealer who attended the closed-door meeting and asked not to be identified. "Within the next 90 days, we might see some of those announcements."
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1130186857684381697
Text image below. More data at the link.

——-
Admittedly, there will be those who are slower to catch on to the benefits of EVs.
Quote
Darwin Award  (@AwardsDarwin) 5/18/19, 11:43 AM
Anyone see the problem here.
https://twitter.com/awardsdarwin/status/1129774466312101888
Image below. :o ::)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 02:43:51 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

ASILurker

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2019, 04:26:09 PM »
As I predicted. You don't get it.

NO you're wrong again. I do get what you're saying. I hear what you were saying. I understand what you are saying, and I can see the "issues" you based what you are saying upon.

Your problem is that I disagree with what you are saying. And explain it really well why I disagree and where I disagree with you. I rely on the verifiable evidence. All you can do is claim someone is misleading when they are not being misleading.

I get it, I totally "get it" ..... you do not!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:36:57 PM by Lurk »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2019, 06:58:45 PM »
The article mentions that Shell, Petro Canada, and BP have similar projects.

Chevron starts deploying EV charging stations at its gas stations
by Fred Lambert
Quote
Alice Flesher, general manager of Chevron’s company-owned and operated network of gas stations, added:
“We are excited to be working with EVgo to install electric vehicle charging stations at select locations in California. While gasoline and diesel remain an important part of California’s transportation energy mix, we are always exploring how to evolve our offering, helping improve the consumer experience and working to remain the preferred brand choice on the West Coast.”
https://electrek.co/2019/05/20/chevron-ev-charging-gas-stations/

(Fred writes that he is not sure whether to be pleased or angry that gas stations are taking this step.  Then again, Fred has been going a bit off the rails lately, so there’s that. :o )


——-
Ford Motor Co cutting about 10% of global salaried workforce
May 20, 2019  By Reuters
Quote
...cutting about 7,000 jobs by the end of August as part of its larger restructuring in a move that will save the No. 2 automaker $600 million annually. ...
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/ford-motor-co-cutting-about-10-of-global-salaried-workforce-20190520-00506
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2019, 02:12:38 AM »
BMW’s transition to EVs is hamstrung by its ICE legacy:  many of their various ICE models, from at least as far back as 2006, are spontaneously bursting into flames, resulting in a widening, 1.6 Million+ car recall.  Until the repair, BMW suggests checking for smoke or burning plastic, and parking the car outdoors. 

April 2019:  BMW adds 185,000 vehicles to total recall of 925,000 [in U.S.] over fire risk
Quote
DETROIT — BMW is adding nearly 185,000 vehicles in the U.S. to a 2017 recall for possible engine fires.
Two years ago the company recommended the vehicles be parked outdoors until problems are fixed. The expansion brings the total number of vehicles recalled for the problem to about 925,000
https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2019/04/19/bmw-adds-185000-vehicles-engine-fire-recall/

Feb 2019:  As mysterious BMW fires continue, calls for investigation into possible causes grow
Quote
Despite continued reports of parked BMWs bursting into flames, the government watchdog for automotive safety does not have an active investigation into possible causes.
Consumers have filed more than 90 complaints about the issue to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, including 30 since ABC News first brought the problem to the public's attention, prompting critics to call for a federal probe.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/mysterious-bmw-fires-continue-calls-investigation-grow/story

October 23, 2018:  BMW Widens Recall of Vehicles With Fire Risk to 1.6 Million Cars
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-10-23/bmw-expands-recall-of-vehicles-risk-of-fire-to-1-6-million-cars

August 2018:  South Korea to ban some BMW vehicles over engine fires
BMW has recalled 106,000 cars in South Korea because of growing fears about fire
The South Korean government has said it will ban about 20,000 BMWs from its streets after a spate of the vehicles catching fire.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-45191874

Sept 2018:  LA family demands answers after parked 2017 BMW catches fire
https://abc7.com/la-family-demands-answers-after-parked-bmw-catches-fire/4213154/

Quote
Knut Grevle (@kgrevle) 5/17/19, 10:43 PM
Please do not buy an BMW X3! They spontaneously catch on fire and @BMWUSA @BMW cannot explain why. Message me direct with any questions. They set our front yard on fire …
https://twitter.com/kgrevle/status/1129578340682043392
- …  It was sitting for 15 minutes outside with the ignition off and the car caught on fire by itself
Quote
Jeff Maling (@jmaling) 9/13/18, 4:37 PM
Knut, my 2015 BMW caught fire while parked at an airport in Maine. Only a quick thinking airport employee prevented it from igniting multiple cars. BMW inspected the car but won't offer an explanation or let me see the report. And they offered a very modest loyalty incentive
https://twitter.com/jmaling/status/1040338746770681858
Photo at the link.
Quote
Jasmin (@JasminPerezCA) 9/11/18, 3:18 PM
Hi this happened to me earlier this year. The police and fire department called me in the middle of the night to let me know. BMW was no help.
https://twitter.com/jasminperezca/status/1039594110376542208
4 photos of totally burned out car at the link.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2019, 03:41:54 AM »
California EV pushback: bill proposed for no gas cars, ICE ban?
https://electrek.co/2019/05/20/california-evs-gas-cars-2040/
Drafted remarks — which Bloomberg notes were not delivered “exactly as prepared” — included a reference to “an outright ban on internal combustion engines.”

——-
GM announces 'exponential jump' in electronics that will allow OTA updates by 2023
https://www.teslarati.com/gm-announces-tesla-like-over-the-air-updates-2023/
Note:  Tesla introduced over-the-air updates with the Model S back in 2012

GM is cutting back its ride-sharing and mobility service:
GM's Maven, citing strategy shift, pulls out of Chicago, New York
https://www.autonews.com/mobility-report/gms-maven-citing-strategy-shift-pulls-out-chicago-new-york

——-
Quote
Alp Soycengiz (@Alpsoy66) 5/20/19, 5:45 PM
A bizzare development in the last few days. Ford is firing thousands of employees, BMW is making a big loss, Mercedes sales r decreasing. GM makes uncomprehensible tech statements BMW has thousands of recalls. Unsold ICE inventory reaches record highs and yet $tsla is doomed !?
https://twitter.com/alpsoy66/status/1130590272109330433

——-
Quote
Cathy Zhang(@CathyYZhang) 5/19/19, 3:37 AM
Chinese #carmakers‘ sales tumbled in April y/y. Worst performers here.
https://twitter.com/cathyyzhang/status/1130014495969927169
Data (Chinese) at the link.
Sam Korus (@skorusARK) 5/20/19, 10:50 AM
Great chart showing what's happening with EVs in China
https://twitter.com/skorusark/status/1130485936184266757
Image below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2019, 01:52:47 PM »
Self-driving trucks begin mail delivery test for U.S. Postal Service
Quote
(Reuters) - The U.S. Postal Service on Tuesday started a two-week test transporting mail across three Southwestern states using self-driving trucks, a step forward in the effort to commercialize autonomous vehicle technology for hauling freight.

San Diego-based startup TuSimple said its self-driving trucks will begin hauling mail between USPS facilities in Phoenix and Dallas to see how the nascent technology might improve delivery times and costs. A safety driver will sit behind the wheel to intervene if necessary and an engineer will ride in the passenger seat.

The trucks will travel on major interstates and pass through Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

“This run is really in the sweet spot of how we believe autonomous trucks will be used,” said TuSimple Chief Product Officer Chuck Price. “These long runs are beyond the range of a single human driver, which means today if they do this run they have to figure out how to cover it with multiple drivers in the vehicle.”
...
The goal is to eliminate the need for a driver, freeing shippers and freight-haulers from the constraints of a worsening driver shortage. The American Trucking Associations estimates a shortage of as many as 174,500 drivers by 2024, due to an aging workforce and the difficulty of attracting younger drivers.

A new safety law requiring truck drivers to electronically log their miles has further constrained how quickly and efficiently fleets can move goods. ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tusimple-autonomous-usps/self-driving-trucks-begin-mail-delivery-test-for-u-s-postal-service-idUSKCN1SR0YB
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2019, 02:25:30 PM »
Consumers are ready for the future of self-driving cars, says study
Quote
A survey of more than 5,500 consumers and 280 auto executives by Capgemini, a consulting group, concluded that automotive consumers are ready for the future of self-driving cars, and 59% of them are even waiting with anticipation. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/good-news-for-tesla-consumers-are-ready-for-the-future-of-self-driving-cars-says-study/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2019, 07:24:12 PM »
In a U.K. study, British motorists were asked to drive three cars for four days apiece. They were:
• An electric VW e-Golf hatchback
• A plug-in hybrid VW Golf GTE hatchback
• A standard internal combustion engine VW Golf hatchback GT Edition

Analysis revealed that a range of 320 km (200 miles) was needed for 50% of participants to consider owning a fully electric car. Increasing the range to 480 km (300 miles) meant 90% would consider electric.

Around half of the participants indicated they were likely to choose a plug-in hybrid as a main or second household car in the next five years. The same quantity would consider a fully electric car as a second vehicle.


Electric cars not attractive for most people in the UK
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48340202
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oren

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2019, 12:09:52 AM »
Quote
Only one in four people would consider buying a fully electric car in the next five years.

That is the finding of one of the most comprehensive studies into UK consumers and pure electric vehicles.
So there are barely any EV models available in the UK in quantity and with decent price and range, only 0.9% of cars sold were electric, and still 25% of people would consider buying an EV in the next 5 years.
"Only"? Certainly a weird way of looking at it. A large number of people want to switch to electric despite all the above.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2019, 03:08:31 AM »
Quote
Only one in four people would consider buying a fully electric car in the next five years.

That is the finding of one of the most comprehensive studies into UK consumers and pure electric vehicles.
So there are barely any EV models available in the UK in quantity and with decent price and range, only 0.9% of cars sold were electric, and still 25% of people would consider buying an EV in the next 5 years.
"Only"? Certainly a weird way of looking at it. A large number of people want to switch to electric despite all the above.

I was surprised that they went with the headline of “Electric cars not attractive for most people in the UK.” 
Definitely beholden to the old guard.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2019, 03:17:10 AM »
(Ford Laying Off 7,000), Jaguar Land Rover Posts $3.6 Billion Loss
Quote
Things at Jaguar Land Rover are bad and getting worse. Despite the introduction of its all electric I-PACE SUV, the company, which is wholly owned by Tata Motors of India, reported a staggering $3.6 billion loss during the last fiscal year. Half of that red ink is due to accounting legerdemain.

The Guardian reports “Half the £3.1 bn non-cash charge was taken after JLR accepted that previous investments in property and machinery were worth far less than previously thought. The other half was attributable to goodwill impairments, an accounting correction that recognizes future earnings potential is likely to be diminished.” …
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/21/charting-the-changes-in-the-automotive-world-ford-jlr-news/

——
Auto industry cutting jobs at the fastest pace since the financial crisis [of 2009]
Quote
Auto makers are laying off employees at the fastest pace since the financial crisis, according to outplacement services company Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc., as the industry struggles with evolving consumer demand and new technology-based competition.

The industry has announced 19,802 in workforce reductions this year through April. That’s more than triple — up 207% — than the 6,451 jobs cuts announced during the same time last year, and the most for the first four months of a year since 101,036 cuts were announced through April of 2009, according to data provided by Challenger, Gray & Christmas.

Both Chrysler and General Motors filed for bankruptcy in 2009, Chrysler in April and GM in June. ...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/auto-industry-cutting-jobs-at-the-fastest-pace-since-the-financial-crisis-2019-05-21

——-
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/21/19, 2:29 PM
Listening to the @BMW call... the CEO is gone in 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely. Countries are banning gas cars but the guy still wants to produce them. WHERE ARE YOU GONNA SELL THEM? MARS?!
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1130903481026527234
- I said 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely;  maybe more like 3 minutes.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1130915944811913216
   
BMW CEO's future in doubt as board tensions emerge, report says
Quote
May 21, 2019 MUNICH -- BMW AG CEO Harald Krueger’s job is hanging in the balance as the luxury carmaker steers through a fundamental shift toward electric and autonomous vehicles as well as weakening markets, people familiar with the discussions said.

Some supervisory board members are raising questions over whether he’s the right choice to lead the company and will discuss the CEO’s second-term prospects in the coming weeks, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing confidential deliberations. Krueger’s current tenure ends next May, with an announcement on his future due in June or July.

BMW, like other carmakers, is navigating a costly transition not only to electric cars but also new business models and deep-pocketed tech competitors encroaching via new mobility options such as ride hailing. After leading the luxury competition for a decade, BMW’s momentum petered out in 2016 and the carmaker has since struggled to regain the top spot with cautious model redesigns. Since last year, weaker global markets and trade tensions have shrunk profits.

"There are doubts about Kreuger's perspectives as CEO of BMW -- internally and externally,'' Juergen Pieper, an analyst at Metzler Bank, said in an email. "Results of the past four years are mixed, profitability is turning down quite substantially," and "there are no clear strategic signals.''
https://www.autonews.com/executives/bmw-ceos-future-doubt-board-tensions-emerge-report-says

——-
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/20/19, 9:49 PM
"Kaellenius, who will take over from Dieter Zetsche..."
This will be the shortest CEO tenure at a major automotive company, ever.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1130651828016877568
< Fall guy
- Yup
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1SQ212
   
Daimler plans to cut administration costs by 20%: Handelsblatt
Quote
Incoming Daimler boss Ola Kaellenius is working on a cost cut program to reach profit margin targets which are threatened by global trade woes and ramp up issues at factories, Handelsblatt reported, citing company sources. …
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1SQ212
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2019, 03:25:12 AM »
Meanwhile, in other news...

Honda is now taking reservations for its upcoming all-electric ‘Honda e’ urban car in four European markets.
Quote
Honda has plans to release the car across Europe and in Japan, and the company is asking for a refundable deposit to make a reservation. For instance, in the UK, Honda is asking for an £800 deposit. In Germany, the carmaker is asking for €800. The car is also now available for reservation in France and Norway.

The carmaker just confirmed the official Honda e name a few weeks ago and has been taking registrations of interest. Honda says the car has received more than 25,000 registrations of interest across Europe.

While we’re still waiting on more complete specs for the Honda e, we know that it features an all-new, EV-specific platform. It will also have a range of more than 125 miles (201 km), with a 30-minute charge boosting its battery to 80% capacity.

Honda expects to make the first deliveries of the Honda e in spring 2020. ...
https://electrek.co/2019/05/21/honda-e-reservations-colors/

——-
If it eliminates potholes, I’m in. ;)
Quote
Cheddar (@cheddar) 5/20/19, 10:18 PM
This fully-plastic road was installed in the Netherlands. Will this become the norm? ...
https://twitter.com/cheddar/status/1130658974582231040
Brief video at the link
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2019, 03:31:03 AM »
Quote
Cathie Wood (@CathieDWood)5/21/19, 8:47 AM
.@ARKInvest would like to compare notes with Adam Jonas and his team at Morgan Stanley on their concern about EV demand. The concern should be about gas-powered cars. EVs are growing nicely.
https://twitter.com/cathiedwood/status/1130817416693473280
- Based on original research (which seems rare on the Street these days), the total cost of ownership (TCO) of a $TSLA’s Model 3 is lower than that of the average gas powered vehicle, as shown in ARK’s Sunday newsletter above.
- As the average price of an EV moves toward and drops below that of gas powered cars in the next few years, EV demand growth should transition from strong to explosive.
- Increasingly, when #UBER drivers drop me off at the train, they ask about the economics of the #Model3. Demand for the Model 3 extends well beyond the premium sedan market.
- I’d be much more concerned about the demand for gas powered cars. I’m puzzled over Adam Jonas’s “overweight” rating on $GM because the #Bolt’s sales are flat year over year and its gas powered car sales are falling. Gas powered car sales seem to have peaked globally.

Electric Vehicles Already Are Cheaper Than Gas-Powered Cars Based on Total Cost of Ownership
Quote
While last month ARK published a piece highlighting that the Model 3 is cheaper to own than a Toyota Camry,  this week we analyzed EV costs compared to those of gas powered cars. As measured by cost per mile, EVs are becoming more competitive every year because gas powered cars have stabilized at roughly $0.70 per mile. We believe that today, EVs are more competitive on a cost per mile basis than gas powered cars, and the gap will continue to widen. The most important variable today is the upfront cost of the vehicle but, as autonomous vehicles launch and proliferate, increased utilization will help to amortize the upfront cost of the vehicle.

As shown below, the upfront cost of an electric vehicle is falling at an accelerated pace. It took 84 years to roughly halve the price of the 1915 Detroit Electric and, since GM’s 1996 EV1, it’s taken only 24 years to halve the price of an electric vehicle for a second time. According to ARK’s research, EVs will be comparable to gas-powered cars on a sticker-price basis by 2022.
https://research.ark-invest.com/ark-disrupt-issue-173
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2019, 02:29:21 PM »
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1)
5/22/19, 6:33 AM
"The German automotive association expects the industry to make a substantial request for aid by the end of May"
finans.dk/indsigt/ECE113…
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1131145978881433600

Tysk bilindustri bønfalder Berlin: »Giv os statsstøtte« - Indsigt - Forside
https://finans.dk/indsigt/ECE11350923/tysk-bilindustri-boenfalder-berlin-giv-os-statsstoette/?ctxref=ext

Via Google translate:
Quote
The automotive industry in Germany is under pressure almost unprecedented.

The pressure is so great that by the end of May, the automotive association Verband der Automobilindustrie (VDA) expects the automotive industry to make a substantial request for state aid.

Without cash assistance from the state, the consequence can be job losses, and since the automotive industry is the largest private employer in Europe's largest economy, the message should be expected to be taken seriously in Berlin.

——-
Quote
Angel N Devil (@AngelNDevil2) 5/22/19, 6:49 AM
GM and Chrysler had to be bailed out by our government to get them out of bankruptcy. Now the Germans need to be bailed out by their government. Yet they all pile on Tesla which is heroically avoiding bankruptcy on its own - doing the right thing. twitter.com/valueanalyst1/…
https://twitter.com/angelndevil2/status/1131150053631057921
- Before anyone lamely points out the subsidies that Tesla has access to - every automotive company has access to and have used the exact same subsides. In a level playing field Tesla is fighting hard to survive and then thrive.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2019, 07:33:18 PM »
From the Cars Part Deux thread:

Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1)5/22/19, 10:26 AM
Jan07: "GM's global sales declined by less than 1% in 2006 as strong growth in Asia largely offset a slump in the U.S. auto market"

Two years after this article, $GM was bankrupt.

   GM US sales sank 7% in Q1, & inventories are near record.

ICE Death Watch ...
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1131204689087860737

——
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/22/19, 6:42 AM
IMO, the German automakers chose not to “trim the fat” and instead kept hundreds of thousands of employees EVEN AS THEY KNEW THIS DAY WOULD COME, so that they can use the workforce as leverage for government aid.

In other words, the executives used employees for ransom: profits. ...
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1131148214063775746

——-
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/22/19, 9:34 AM
ICE 2019 = BlackBerry 2012
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1131191579623022592
Graph of Sales (Not stock price) below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2019, 07:46:29 PM »
BMW Twitter campaign is pushing its used cars.
Quote
Meta4 (@a_meta4) 5/18/19, 7:38 PM
Is BMW trying to offload their fast depreciating inventory because they see the writing on the wall?
Why advertise certified pre-owned and not new cars? HmmmHm?
  https://t.co/qL2KY7Dp10
@ValueAnalyst1's call seems more and more true each passing day..
https://twitter.com/a_meta4/status/1129893989438566401

Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/21/19, 9:24 PM
"holding cost for a vehicle is $37 per car per day. It doesn’t take long for a vehicle’s profit potential to erode to nothing"
"when a vehicle stays on the lot for 60 days, this asset becomes a liability."

wardsauto.com: https://t.co/aCml1Ny9Xf
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1131007842419400704
"According to NCM Associates, holding costs for most domestic vehicles is approximately $40 per day per car. In his book, Like I See It, Dale Pollak writes that holding costs for used cars are closer to $85 per day."
< Dealership inventory is a ticking financial bomb.

Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/22/19, 11:59 AM
BMW 3 Series resale values continue to plunge, and this has significant consequences:

BMW: Terminal Decline ...
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1131228006838657025
Graph below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2019, 07:50:58 PM »
Oops.

GM postpones launch of diesel engines for big trucks to 2020 MY
Posted By GMbeat 16 Hours Ago
https://www.autonews.com - “The EPA’s emissions certification process for a new inline-six turbodiesel engine in the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra is taking longer than anticipated. The delay means dealer orders for the models must be canceled and resubmitted.”
http://gmbeat.com/articles/gm-postpones-launch-of-diesel-engines-for-big-trucks-to-2020-my/
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 10:08:44 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2019, 10:08:23 PM »
Auto parts and technology company Bosch fined $100 million for role in the diesel emissions scandal
Quote
BERLIN (AP) — German prosecutors have fined auto parts and technology company Bosch $100 million over its role in the diesel emissions scandal that erupted at Volkswagen in 2015.
Prosecutors in Stuttgart said Thursday that the company, formally called Robert Bosch GmbH, was fined for a negligent violation of supervisory obligations, and that the company had decided not to appeal.
Bosch delivered millions of engine control systems that were installed on various manufacturers’ cars starting in 2008 and whose software, in prosecutors’ words, “contained in part prohibited strategies” — leading to cars emitting more nitrogen oxide than permitted by regulators.
However, prosecutors said they believe that “the initiative to integrate and shape the prohibited strategies came from employees of the auto manufacturers.”
...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/auto-parts-and-technology-company-bosch-fined-100-million-for-role-in-the-diesel-emissions-scandal-2019-05-23
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2019, 04:49:43 PM »
First Drive in an All Electric Mercedes – Whats Under The Hood?!

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2019, 05:53:59 PM »
I'll assume buses are included in cars.

The bus wars are over. Electricity — and China — won.

https://thinkprogress.org/electric-buses-outsell-diesel-china/

Quote
China has 421,000 electric buses. The United States has 300.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2019, 07:11:12 PM »
I'll assume buses are included in cars.

The bus wars are over. Electricity — and China — won.

https://thinkprogress.org/electric-buses-outsell-diesel-china/

Quote
China has 421,000 electric buses. The United States has 300.

Battery electric buses are still barely beyond the prototype phase and have many challenges to work out.

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2019/01/electric-bus-battery-recharge-new-flyer-byd-proterra-beb/577954/

Quote
But is the technology really ready?

There are reasons for skepticism. So far, it looks like BEBs struggle when it’s too cold (below freezing) or too hot, and on routes with hills. The global frontier of public-transit innovation in Western Europe is cautious about adopting BEBs and prefers a hybrid form of trolleybuses and battery-electric technology called in-motion charging, or IMC. Some Swiss cities are adding trolley wire at low cost while using IMC to extend the range of their existing trolleybuses several miles beyond the wire.

Quote
Still, the energy density of batteries remains well below that of gas. And, unlike most passenger cars, city buses run for the entire day. The big American transit agencies run buses for about 25,000 to 40,000 miles a year, which is two to three times the average distance a car is driven—and buses have a more energy-intensive urban driving cycle (with little highway running), totaling 100 to 200 miles of city running per weekday.

Moreover, the routes most likely to get battery-electric technology are the strongest ones, where fleet utilization is higher, since electric buses are more expensive to buy than diesel buses. This pushes up the required range for operating without midday charging.

On heavy-duty buses, the range has not been enough. Albuquerque provides one example: It found its BYD buses’ range to be only 177 miles on one charge, compared with a contractual promise of 275, and this was not enough to run a full day’s service. In Vancouver, a BEB trial talks up rapid recharging during layovers—there is no expectation of being able to run a bus for an entire day without recharging. Rapid recharging is labor-intensive, since a worker must supervise it, unlike recharging or refueling at the end of the day.

Quote
BEBs are not really ready yet. The battery isn’t good enough if there’s any problem along the way, such as a climb or cold weather, and the extra infrastructure for midday charging is expensive.

Battery costs are going down, helping explain the growth of battery-electric propulsion in the passenger-car market. This should give transit advocates and city planners hope that in the future, BEBs may have a place. But the technology is not yet mature, and some of the most innovative cities in the world when it comes to public transit purchase trolleybuses with IMC instead.

Battery technology is improving and within a few years will probably be able to meet the requirements for bus fleets.  In the meantime, many American cities run hybrid battery-electric diesel buses that get better fuel mileage than diesel buses, produce lower emissions and require less maintenance than diesel buses.  It's a good bridge until better batteries are available.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2019, 08:25:15 PM »
Quote
Rapid recharging is labor-intensive, since a worker must supervise it, unlike recharging or refueling at the end of the day.

Before I address any other point, it is ridiculous that a worker has to supervise an electric plug, rapid charging or not. Simply ridiculous. That must be a problem exclusive to that particular jurisdiction. If it is not, i would like to know the reason why a person has to stand there watching a vehicle charge.

At 155 miles of range these buses are usable in hundreds of thousands of routes around the world specially if there is supporting infrastructure and good planning. Buses will get even better as battery technology improves.

Quote
Still, the energy density of batteries remains well below that of gas.


yes but that can be partially overcome by fast charging stations and well planned schedule.

Quote
And, unlike most passenger cars, city buses run for the entire day.


It is likely that buses will have to recharge  more often, but that is not an insurmountable restriction. It is easily solvable with buying a few more buses to cover the gaps. Diesel fuel cost, oils and filters, brakes are very significant savings, maybe enough to make up for the extra buses.


Quote
BEBs are not really ready yet.

They are ready for many applications, but not all.

Quote
The battery isn’t good enough if there’s any problem along the way, such as a climb or cold weather,

A properly designed EV eats ICE for breakfast in climbs.


Quote
and the extra infrastructure for midday charging is expensive.

Yes, but it is becoming cheaper and much faster. Soon this point will be moot.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2019, 08:50:15 PM »
Škoda launches all-electric car for less than $20,000
Quote
Škoda, a Czech automaker owned by Volkswagen, has unveiled today the Citigo iV, an all-electric city car that is expected to cost less than $20,000.
265 km (165 miles) on the WLTP cycle is expected to result in roughly 200 km (125 miles) of real-world range.
The charging capacity is limited to 40 kW on a DC fast charger and it’s equipped with a 7.2 kW onboard charger.
...
Škoda Citigo iV Price and Availability
The automaker didn’t announce official pricing, but it confirmed that it will be “well below 20,000 euros” — making it a fairly affordable electric car.
Škoda confirmed that they are starting series production of the Citigo iV during the second half of the year. They didn’t confirm a production capacity.
By 2025, the Škoda brand plans to expand its range to include five purely electric cars in various segments. They will contribute to the VW Group’s plans to build 2 to 3 million all-electric cars a year and unveil 30 new models by 2025.
https://electrek.co/2019/05/23/skoda-citigo-iv-electric-car-cheap/

Image of the Škoda Citigo iV below.

—-
Opel unveils all-electric Corsa-e with 205-mile range
Quote
Opel has introduced the first all-electric version of its Corsa with the new Corsa-e.

The Corsa-e comes equipped with a 50 kWh battery, with Opel claiming a WTLP 205-mile (330 km) range. A 30-minute charge can boost capacity to 80%, and the battery comes with an eight-year warranty. Sister brand Vauxhall, which is also producing the car, claims the range can be extended by up to 40% in Eco mode. ...
https://electrek.co/2019/05/23/vauxhall-opel-corsa-e/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2019, 09:43:56 PM »
Tesla Superchargers are numerous and fast, but sites can become overwhelmed at certain times or popular locations.  Tesla has figured out a way of rationing “convenience charging” while allowing long-distance travelers to get what they need.  Because charging the last 20% is much slower than charging near empty.

Tesla starts limiting charge to 80% at busy Superchargers to reduce wait times
Quote
Tesla is updating some of its Supercharger stations today to limit the top State of Charge (SOC) to 80% at busy stations in order to reduce wait times.
...
When Tesla launched its new V3 Supercharger, it also updated the top charge rate at existing Supercharger stations (V2) and released a new feature, On-Route Battery Warmup, that prepares the battery pack to receive the higher charge faster in order to save time when arriving at the station.

Interestingly, Tesla has thought of a way to bypass the new limitation for owners on long-distance trips. If you are routed to a Supercharger station through the trip planner, you are going to be able to get the charge needed to complete your trip.
If the Supercharger is your end destination, it will not work ...
https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/tesla-limiting-supercharger-busy/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2019, 01:28:48 PM »
“Luxury” ICE cars are the first to go.  Buyers won’t pay a high price for outmoded tech.
Quote
Tesla Driver (@M_xalher) 5/24/19, 4:25 PM
Norway’s main Mercedes importer Bertel O. Steen to let almost 10% of staff go as sales “have largely collapsed”.  :o
Journalist asks if this is a “Kodak moment”.
Sales were down 40% in 2018.
So far in 2019 they are down “a further 50%”.
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1132019931409715201
Image below.

Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 5/25/19, 3:23 AM
Given how many countries are limiting or setting an end date for combustion engine cars, their future resale value cars will be low. Consumers are starting to realize this.
< Especially with lack of upgradability concerning FSD...

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 5/25/19, 3:52 AM
Exactly. A car being electric & upgradable to full self-driving maximizes future resale value.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1132192810088579072
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2019, 01:32:06 PM »
Nissan says its Leaf batteries will outlast the car by 10-12 years, looks for reuse solutions

https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/nissan-leaf-batteries-outlast-car/

Quote
Nissan claims the batteries in its Leaf electric cars will last 22 years, an estimated 10-12 years longer than the average life of the car itself.

Nissan reached its conclusions based off of data from the 400,000 Leafs it has sold in Europe since 2011, managing director of Renault-Nissan Energy Services Francisco Carranza said at the Automotive News Europe Congress this week.

“We are going to have to recover those batteries,” Carranza said.

When the EV revolution started the common expectation was that batteries will eventually need to be replaced. Now, the batteries will outlast the cars and go on to have a second life as something else.

Take that CO2 emissions.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2019, 01:17:55 AM »
Nissan says its Leaf batteries will outlast the car by 10-12 years, looks for reuse solutions

https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/nissan-leaf-batteries-outlast-car/

Quote
Nissan claims the batteries in its Leaf electric cars will last 22 years, an estimated 10-12 years longer than the average life of the car itself.

Nissan reached its conclusions based off of data from the 400,000 Leafs it has sold in Europe since 2011, managing director of Renault-Nissan Energy Services Francisco Carranza said at the Automotive News Europe Congress this week.

“We are going to have to recover those batteries,” Carranza said.

When the EV revolution started the common expectation was that batteries will eventually need to be replaced. Now, the batteries will outlast the cars and go on to have a second life as something else.

Take that CO2 emissions.
My takeway is the car is so poorly built it only lasts about 10 years. A car should last at least 20 years preferably more as long as it isn't in an accident. Unfortunately people think they need all new crap.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #84 on: May 26, 2019, 02:33:23 AM »
Daimler CEO announces sweeping cost review as he bows out
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1SS0M2

——-
Detroit city can’t afford to help pay for these soon-to-be-stranded-asset fossil investments! 
Another sign of Fiat-Chrysler’s backwards path:
Quote
Mopar Unlimited (@Moparunlimited) 5/24/19, 1:35 PM
This week FCA confirmed plans to build a new $1.6 billion plant at Detroit Mack Avenue Engine 4 next gen Jeep Grand Cherokee, 3 row SUV, PHEV models adding 3,850 jobs. As well as $900 million JNAP for next gen Dodge Durango & Jeep Grand Cherokee adding 1,100 new jobs!
https://twitter.com/moparunlimited/status/1131977044919803906

——-
Quote
Tesla New York (@TeslaNY) 5/24/19, 5:31 PM
#Nissan's credit rating downgraded by #Moody's over weak U.S. sales  “Hit by former Chairman Carlos Ghosn's arrest ... 45% plunge in annual operating profit in year ending March, & forecast a 28% drop in profit this fiscal year.” autonews.com/sales/nissans-… https://t.co/v4NxZmFjs2
https://twitter.com/teslany/status/1132036379385450503
< Nissan now.  Every ICE company in 2020/21.
Quote
Walter MacVane (@EcoHeliGuy) 5/25/19, 1:41 AM
Restructuring just got more expensive …
https://twitter.com/ecoheliguy/status/1132159652634882048
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #85 on: May 26, 2019, 02:43:00 AM »
Tata Motors' net profit down 47% year-on-year.
https://twitter.com/bloombergquint/status/1130424892073992192
Quote
Alter Viggo (@AlterViggo) 5/24/19, 1:26 PM
Jaguar Land Rover are giving up on EVs. I'm calling it now. Look at this ridiculous nonsense from their CEO. [Text image below.]
Diesels are NOT clean. Period.
And EVs aren't important to THEIR customers because i-Pace is a terrible value.

autonews.com/automakers-sup… > https://t.co/23cJhZWF5z   
https://twitter.com/alterviggo/status/1131974880348508162
2/ The batteries are too expensive is their excuse to stop investing in #ElectricVehicle platforms, which means the company will likely die along with ICE cars and trucks.
Another text image at the link.

——-
Quote
Tesla Driver (@M_xalher) 5/25/19, 4:23 AM
Here in Norway resale values of ICE cars seem to be collapsing, if you can even sell your used car at all. It’s much worse than normal depreciation.
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1132200620591603712
< Probably where US car dealers are headed in 5 years
<< More like 3.
<<< More like 1
< 40% drop in the next year seems improbable.
Tesla Driver  (@M_xalher) 5/24/19, 5:38 PM
Everyone said the same here in Norway in 2017 too.
The discussion I am witnessing on Twitter now re US and many other countries is much the same as we had a couple of years ago.
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1132038208294981632
< Well, that's two years back. Also, market size matters. It's fun to try to estimate. No really important in the end. 1-5 years, not enough time to change course.
TD: [You are] probably right. But a key factor is that once EVs catch on people stop buying ICE cars, because they become afraid they can’t sell them again in 3-5 years. The change here (in attitude and on city streets) has been so very quick and dramatic.
VA:  Same will happen in US as soon as Model Y is in volume production. Both BMW and Mercedes have so far hidden behind low-margin, high-volume sedans and CUVs: A/C Series and GLC, and X3 etc.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #86 on: May 26, 2019, 03:47:14 AM »
California:  All-electric cars made up 5.6% of new car sales in Q1 2019.
Quote
• BEVs: 26,053 (market share increased to 5.6%)
• PHEVs: 9,615 (market share decreased to 2.1%)
• Total: 35,668 (at 7.7% market share)
https://insideevs.com/news/351285/tesla-dominates-sales-charts-california/

The fifth largest economy in the world. 8)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 12:47:48 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #87 on: May 26, 2019, 10:32:11 PM »
Desperate times.

Fiat Chrysler and Renault are in advanced talks to merge the automakers
Quote
   •   Sources say the talks, which have been happening over the last several weeks, have picked up speed in recent days and could lead to an announcement regarding a merger or partnership as soon as tomorrow.
   •   The CEOs of both automakers have made it clear they are open to partnerships with other automakers that would give them the economies of scale to further cut costs both in terms of manufacturing as well as in developing vehicles.
   •   A partnership between Fiat Chrysler and Renault would also help the automakers pool resources for the development of electric and autonomous vehicles. ...
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/26/fiat-chrysler-and-renault-are-in-advanced-talks-to-merge-the-automakers.html
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #88 on: May 26, 2019, 11:21:41 PM »
Desperate times.

Fiat Chrysler and Renault are in advanced talks to merge the automakers   

An Italian/US/French conglomerate sprawled across a colossally complex set of brands and production facilities - what a brilliant idea! While they are spending the years attempting to make this behemoth work others will eat their lunch. Maybe they are trying to optimize the amount of government cash they can rely upon when they hit the wall? Its like the ice-makers consolidating to take on the competition from fridges.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2019, 05:58:22 PM »
Desperate times.

Fiat Chrysler and Renault are in advanced talks to merge the automakers   

An Italian/US/French conglomerate sprawled across a colossally complex set of brands and production facilities - what a brilliant idea! While they are spending the years attempting to make this behemoth work others will eat their lunch. Maybe they are trying to optimize the amount of government cash they can rely upon when they hit the wall? Its like the ice-makers consolidating to take on the competition from fridges.
Quite so.  Some ICE-makers are struggling mightily to find a way forward.  Others have essentially given up.

Jaguar Land Rover’s CEO: “According to industry forecasters, a global share of 20 percent to 30 percent for electrified vehicles is expected by 2025. When you turn this around, it means that 70 percent to 80 percent of all vehicles around the world will have conventional engines. Let me add that today’s diesels, (which) are absolutely CO2-efficient and clean.”

Tesla’s resilience is forcing veteran automakers to draw the battle lines on diesel
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-forces-veteran-automakers-to-draw-battle-lines-on-diesel/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2019, 07:33:10 PM »
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 5/25/19, 8:24 PM
"Ford and GM dealers tell us they are concerned about the management teams at these OEMs and the loss of market share. An example is the newly released Chevy Silverado which debuted to little consumer interest, with volumes down 15.9% from the prior year (and prior model)."
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1132442307091767296
Graphs and more at the link.  Incumbents are pushing fleet sales and used cars over new.

——
Vandals shut down UK electric car sharing program within months  :'(
Quote
A promising electric car-sharing program in a UK town only lasted a few months, as the EVs quickly became a target for vandals who caused “exceptional levels of damage” to the cars.
https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/vandals-uk-electric-car-program/

——
Quote
E for Electric (@EforElectric) 5/21/19, 7:54 PM
When a Tesla owner rents a gas car...
https://twitter.com/eforelectric/status/1130985314837622784
;D 1min video

——
Personal note:  I saw my first Tesla yesterday!  Quite a shock to see a Model 3 out here in the boonies, in one of the poorest counties of a deep Red region of the southeast U.S..

——
Quote
Elon Woke (@Johankyu7) 5/25/19, 1:23 PM
Scheduled test drives for my dad yesterday for model x and 3. Just got a call that they sold the test drive vehicles...
https://twitter.com/johankyu7/status/1132336313305190400

——
Demand indicator ;) ;D :
https://twitter.com/tesla__mania/status/1132685189119860736
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Archimid

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2019, 07:40:34 PM »
Quote
;D 1min video

Hillarious!
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2019, 02:19:44 AM »
U.K.Nearly 75% of car buyers are considering an electric car as their next vehicle
What’s more, 50% percent of owners who don’t already have an AFV expect to own their first one within the next three years.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/news/nearly-75-of-car-buyers-are-considering-an-electric-car-as-their-next-vehicle

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Amsterdam to ban petrol and diesel cars and motorbikes by 2030
Diesel cars older than 15 years will be barred next year as first part of anti-pollution drive
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/03/amsterdam-ban-petrol-diesel-cars-bikes-2030

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VW spent $56B to purchase batteries for its EVs.
Samsung agreed to deliver 20 gWh, enough to power 200k VW EVs.
But they couldn’t deliver.  They only have batteries for less than 50k cars.

“Samsung initially agreed to deliver batteries for just over 20 gigawatt hours, enough to power 200,000 cars with 100 kwh packs, before different views on production volume and schedule emerged. The impasse cut pledged supplies to less than 5 gWh”
Bloomberg:  https://t.co/KU1ejBIzRz

Battery deal between VW and Samsung in danger
Quote
Volkswagen needs a lot of batteries for its electric cars. Samsung is one of the suppliers, but now only wants to deliver significantly less batteries. This could be because VW is still cooperating with another Korean provider.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/diginomics/elektroautos-batterie-deal-zwischen-vw-und-samsung-in-gefahr-16209015.html

—-
Now it’s official:
Ball in Renault's court after Fiat Chrysler proposes merger
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles on Monday submitted a shock proposal to French automaker Renault for a 50/50 merger.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1123277_ball-in-renaults-court-after-fiat-chrysler-proposes-merger

—-
Buzz in Tesla China:  announcement of May 31… announcement?  Details unknown.
Quote
☰SLA Mania (@Tesla__Mania) 5/27/19, 3:34 AM
From Tesla China
蓄势,待发
Literally means
“Accumulating momentum, waiting to be released”
https://twitter.com/tesla__mania/status/1132913013554499584
Image below.

Or, “building up the momentum, getting ready to launch.”
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2019, 01:26:13 PM »
Battery deal between VW and Samsung in danger

I popped in here to impart that self same news. An alternative take:

https://electrek.co/2019/05/27/vw-massive-battery-supply-samsung-cant-deliver/

Will VW's eMobility ambitions be thwarted?

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2019, 04:00:25 PM »
...   Will VW's eMobility ambitions be thwarted?

From the video:
“There will be massive changes in our drivetrain portfolio by 2040.”

VW doesn’t have until 2040.  They have something like 3 times the ICE-specific assets of GM or Daimler, ~$130 Billion, that must be written off, or amortized from profits.  Shareholders won’t stand for decades without profit.

http://tesla.dauger.com/disrupts/different.html#incumbentsshackles
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rboyd

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2019, 12:46:17 AM »
Maybe it should say "There will be massive holes in our portfolio ...."

Jim Hunt

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2019, 01:12:55 AM »
News on some Dyson EV patents:

https://www.wired.com/story/dyson-patent-applications-offer-hints-electric-car/

Quote
The trio of patent applications, which became public this month, 18 months after Dyson filed them with the US Patent Office, are odd in that they describe some general properties of the embryonic car, rather than any specific inventions. They argue that the design differs from electrics being made today, because it’s not adapted from a vehicle created for an internal combustion engine.

That’s an easy claim to refute.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2019, 01:29:01 AM »
Will VW's eMobility ambitions be thwarted?

VW has been acting as if the EV market is now mature and they can just buy their way into it using the cash pile they have generated with the ICE market.

Now they are finding that Tesla didn't create their battery factory because it was "cheaper" or even better.  They had to create it because the product simply didn't exist in the volume and quality they required.

If Samsung are having this issue, then it is likely that LG is too.  Tesla had enough issues with their cell supply and Tesla chose the most common cell on the market at the time they designed their battery.

A level of reality will have to be reached by the incumbents that EV is not something you can just rapidly buy your way into with a pile of cash.  EV components have not been commoditised over the last 100 years.

Reality is that just building and fitting out a factory in the EU will take 18 to 24 months.  Ramping up supply will take at least another 18 months to 36 months.  This does not fit the VW goals of 2025 at volume supply as they will need at least two years of higher volumes before they can manufacture 3m cars per year.

This is when the 10 year Tesla experience gap will begin to show.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2019, 08:22:32 AM »
Spot on Neil!

And people still wondering why Elon acquired a solar cell company.

Well, a car manufacturer in 10 years will need this technology (well integrated) because the future is not EV. It's Solar EV!

And when VW is long gone because they never thought of building a supply chain, Tesla will build solar cars.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2019, 08:47:29 PM »
News on some Dyson EV patents:

https://www.wired.com/story/dyson-patent-applications-offer-hints-electric-car/

Quote
The trio of patent applications, which became public this month, 18 months after Dyson filed them with the US Patent Office, are odd in that they describe some general properties of the embryonic car, rather than any specific inventions. They argue that the design differs from electrics being made today, because it’s not adapted from a vehicle created for an internal combustion engine.

That’s an easy claim to refute.

New article:

Can The Dyson Vacuum Cleaner Guy Build A Better Electric Car Than Tesla's Elon Musk?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billroberson/2019/05/29/can-the-dyson-vacuum-cleaner-guy-build-a-better-electric-car-than-teslas-elon-musk/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.