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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #250 on: July 13, 2019, 08:46:26 PM »
Charging at home is a major issue and should be possible in new residential buildings. Last year I had to look for a system and the main problem was that most chargers are built for fast charging, which is not compatible with a residential concept - you have many hours and many cars to load but a limited power supply.

You can charge a Renault Zoe in 5 hours to full with 11 kW which is compatible with a 'normal' residential concept.

etienne

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #251 on: July 14, 2019, 05:57:56 AM »
Charging at home is a major issue and should be possible in new residential buildings. Last year I had to look for a system and the main problem was that most chargers are built for fast charging, which is not compatible with a residential concept - you have many hours and many cars to load but a limited power supply.

You can charge a Renault Zoe in 5 hours to full with 11 kW which is compatible with a 'normal' residential concept.
The issue is not the car, but to find a system that can manage the loading of 20 cars. 220 kW  is not so much compatible anymore.

GrauerMausling

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #252 on: July 14, 2019, 09:24:27 AM »
Charging at home is a major issue and should be possible in new residential buildings. Last year I had to look for a system and the main problem was that most chargers are built for fast charging, which is not compatible with a residential concept - you have many hours and many cars to load but a limited power supply.

Etienne,

you might want to contact openWB.
https://openwb.de/main/?page_id=33
It's a German form, but English shouldn't be a problem.
 
This is a open source wallbox for smart charging - that is load balancing.
The claim that they can support up to 200 charge ports and the pricing seems to be very reasonable.




Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #253 on: July 14, 2019, 04:17:46 PM »
 :'(  A shame.  I was really looking forward to the electric Mini. But this shows the importance of the direction a CEO sets.

The first electric Mini helps explain why BMW’s CEO just quit
Quote
BMW has unveiled the first widely available all-electric Mini Cooper. Coming in early 2020, the car will start at around $35,000 and travel 235 kilometers (146 miles) per charge. Compared to similarly priced EVs on the road now with more than 200 miles of range, like the Kona Electric or the Tesla Model 3, the Mini’s mileage figure looks paltry. It will only look worse next year as more capable electric cars hit the road, and the Mini gets a more realistic EPA mileage rating. It’s a curious thing to see from a company that was early to electric cars, and it helps explain why BMW’s CEO Harald Krueger resigned last week.
...
Bloomberg recapped some of the things that happened during Krueger’s tenure, especially when it comes to his attempts at future-proofing the automaker’s business. It wasn’t pretty. He delayed BMW’s first long-range EV, which reportedly led to an exodus of talent in that field. Sales of the i3 stumbled. He also doubled down on internal combustion engine cars at a time when European countries moved to restrict or outright ban them, especially diesels. Amid all of this, the company still lost market share to rivals like Daimler, which owns Mercedes-Benz.
...
“The electric Mini’s spec sheet reads like it was released three years ago”
...
BMW is known for the quality of its cars, and the Mini brand has such loyal followers that the new electric version will certainly find some fans. But while the rest of the industry is undergoing those “enormous changes” that Krueger cited, the first all-electric Mini looks more like a capitulation from BMW, down to the fact that — according to Automotive News — it’s little more than the i3’s technology shoe-horned into the 2014 Mini hard-top.

Most people only need to travel 200 or 300 miles by car once every few months, if that. So 146 miles could still handle a number of everyday trips. It could also slot nicely into its car-sharing fleet, depending on what shape that service takes following the merger with Daimler’s mobility arm. The Mini also won’t be the only EV with shorter range to be released moving forward. The adorable Honda E will only get about 124 miles of range when it hits the road later this year, for example. And BMW’s forthcoming electric SUVs, like the iX3 and iX4, should be far more capable when they eventually arrive.

But BMW was decidedly ahead of the curve on electric and hybrid cars just a few years ago. The new Mini is a sign that Krueger may have squandered that advantage.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/9/20687413/bmw-electric-mini-cooper-specs-release
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etienne

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #254 on: July 14, 2019, 09:06:50 PM »
235 km is more than enough for a small car, at least in europe most people don't drive more than 100 km  per day with a small car. So it is adapted to the needs of the customers, but maybe not to their dreams.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 09:53:21 PM by etienne »

etienne

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #255 on: July 14, 2019, 09:49:00 PM »
Bigger batteries means more pollution and CO2 in the production phase, then an heavier load to carry around, so a higher energy consumption per km.
Most BMW's customers can afford to own an EV and an ICEV.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 09:54:09 PM by etienne »

TerryM

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #256 on: July 14, 2019, 11:54:52 PM »
Bigger batteries means more pollution and CO2 in the production phase, then an heavier load to carry around, so a higher energy consumption per km.
Most BMW's customers can afford to own an EV and an ICEV.


If I were to consider an EV at some time in the future I'd demand battery chemistry that is safe (LIFePO4 or better), something lighter than a 1958 Buick, and something that wouldn't burn through more electricity than an electrically heated swimming pool.


Terry

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #257 on: July 15, 2019, 01:25:58 AM »
Bigger batteries means more pollution and CO2 in the production phase, then an heavier load to carry around, so a higher energy consumption per km.
Most BMW's customers can afford to own an EV and an ICEV.


If I were to consider an EV at some time in the future I'd demand battery chemistry that is safe (LIFePO4 or better), something lighter than a 1958 Buick, and something that wouldn't burn through more electricity than an electrically heated swimming pool.

Terry

Battery design and construction is as important as chemistry for safety — think of all those spontaneously combusting cell phones and scooters....  A Model 3 weighs less than a 1958 Buick.  Add some solar and batteries, and you may not have to “burn through” any grid electricity at all!
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #258 on: July 15, 2019, 12:37:56 PM »
Did her “research” include finding a local EV group, seeing how they manage obstacles such as yours, and asking for help?

My daughter works 10 hours per day and often into the weekends for time off, not extra money.  One thing in her daily life she does not have is time.  Her options are charging at work or charging at home, there is no time to go to the "community" every day to charge her vehicle.

At home she lives in a new build (less than 10 years old), end terrace, parking is built in, but off street. There is no supply and the electricity supply to the estate is insufficient to start putting in EV charging points, there is no additional supply and it would take an upgrade to a new subststation for the estate.  Something which will not happen.

She lives in a very rural area where EV is a fairy story and the only people who drive them have Tesla's or live in the city.

When an EV becomes a choice I'm absolutely certain she'll pick one as she buys new vehicles rather than second hand like me.  Today it is not a choice because the infrastructure is not there.

It is as simple as that and trying to assume that a senior exec, with very little time in her life, can simply disrupt her entire life because you would prefer her to have an EV, yet the facilities for EV are simply not there, doesn't help the case.
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Neven

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #259 on: July 15, 2019, 12:41:21 PM »
Maybe she can go live even further from work and then take a plane?
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #260 on: July 15, 2019, 12:49:40 PM »
Especially if you're not serious about AGW.

Neven I'll accept that from you because I know just how hard you try on this.  I wouldn't accept it from _anyone_ else.

I have now spent 23 years promoting the fact that AGW is here, trying to change attitudes and opinions.  I try to motivate the youth and I won't hear the usual Warmist BS in my company.  Just 3 weeks ago I was told "categorically" by an English middle aged lady, that AGW was rubbish put about by liberal left political classes to control us.

I have spent the first half of that 23 years being ridiculed and derided.

Just because it's not possible to change my life to sustainable, at this time, does not mean I'm not serious. Just because I think that things like Extinction Rebellion are futile does not mean I'm not serious.

I won't stop saying it how I see it, but I might just decide to let everyone witter on about how things are "changing today".

This year nearly 85 million odd ICE vehicles will be sold.  Next year it will probably be around the same.  In a decade it will probably be something like 60 million.  Some 750 million or so additional ICE Vehicles on the road for at least 10 - 15 years.

Want to talk about being serious?  That is a serious statistic and unless governments address the lack of an infrastructure to support a rapid conversion to EV, it is not going to get rapidly better any time soon.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #261 on: July 15, 2019, 12:54:04 PM »
Maybe she can go live even further from work and then take a plane?

Really Neven, she works fairly local compared to south England.  Where people travel up to 2 hours each way every day.

She could, of course, move further away, into the city, buy an insanely expensive (to her), EV then travel twice as far on electricity every day to get back and forth to work.  However she'd be able to charge the car.

I know you are frustrated by the way I see this Neven but the infrastructure for EV is NOT there and assuming that everyone just has to work harder to "get it done" is not constructive.

The place for that barb is at the UK government level who won't push this forward with initiatives for local communities to uprate their power infrastructure and for not putting EV charging into every single Government location (she works for the government so it is up to them).
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Neven

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #262 on: July 15, 2019, 01:56:55 PM »
I know you are frustrated by the way I see this Neven but the infrastructure for EV is NOT there and assuming that everyone just has to work harder to "get it done" is not constructive.

I know it's not constructive, and maybe not even fair, but it's also not constructive or fair to use it as an anecdote. If you're going to wait for the government, nothing will ever change on time. That means you have to do it yourself. Everyone who is serious about AGW, needs to do things themselves, while at the same time pushing the government as much as possible.

Every step, every choice you make, is an opportunity to be serious about AGW. Yes, EVs are expensive, but they're cheaper over time, so if you have the money upfront, it's actually a good investment. People who can afford an EV, simply have the moral duty to buy one (never mind the discussion whether this really is sufficient as a solution to AGW). Saying 'the government this and that' is just a weak excuse that you don't need if you're well-off and serious about AGW.

Second, you don't need a special charger, all you need is a socket for a 2 kW trickle charge with a so-called 'brick'. That means you can easily charge 20 kWh over night, which amounts to 100-150 km, depending on route and driving style. Is 2 kW too much for the poor grid? Is there no electricity anywhere near the parking space?

But even then, let's say it's just absolutely impossible, but you really want to do the next best thing. Why then buy a Ford Ecosport @ 125 gr CO2/km?! There are plenty of similar cars that are sub-100 gr CO2/km, and of course (plug-in) hybrids that go below 80 gr! Why not buy a second-hand Prius and wait for two years until EVs have longer ranges at lower prices, with better infrastructure, etc? Or just buy a BMW i3 with range extender? And maybe pay attention to where the car is built? Is it true that the Ecosport is built in India? Eco, my ***.

Here's the problem: You keep posing as some sort of AGW activist, but then you come with anecdotes like this one, or the one where you transport motorcycles across Europe, and complain that the government isn't offering any options to do so sustainably. You come across as someone who is too smart for outright denial, but is too lazy to really actually do anything about it.

Are you just here to hear your excuses echoed and your conscience soothed, while engaging in talk about how everything needs to be solved, on the side? Or making sure discussions and proposed solutions don't deviate too much from what is socially acceptable, ie the way it was done in your time, which also seems to be a popular pensioner pastime?

Don't say you're serious about AGW and then come up with these lame anecdotes. It's neither constructive or fair. I'd be ashamed to say those things, especially in a venue such as this one.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #263 on: July 15, 2019, 03:04:43 PM »
NeilT is particularly adept at making excuses about why an EV won’t work for him.

Here’s two of my favorites that he is somehow unable or unwilling to resolve:
Quote
Range, for me, is a major issue, I don’t have time in my life to mess around sitting waiting for a battery to charge....

Here is another issue for you.  My wife won’t stop anywhere within 150 miles of Calais due to the immigrant issue with transport.  She won’t stop and sit, with the car plugged in, at a service station, unless she is going for a meal and she does not do that very often and only a few of the service stations have restaurants she will go to. ...
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg174400.html#msg174400
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #264 on: July 15, 2019, 03:57:13 PM »


Just because it's not possible to change my life to sustainable, at this time, does not mean I'm not serious. Just because I think that things like Extinction Rebellion are futile does not mean I'm not serious.
....

Want to talk about being serious?  That is a serious statistic and unless governments address the lack of an infrastructure to support a rapid conversion to EV, it is not going to get rapidly better any time soon.

Agree in part and disagree in part.  It's easy for us to wring our hands over the way most people just won't change to an eco-conscious lifestyle.  But I think it's a rare bird who ever bucks the trend of the society they live in.  If the social norm is to get a job that basically requires a car for commute, that's what people will do.  If the social norm is to live in low-density residential areas that reinforce the need for a car, that's what people will do.

It would be great if more people would buck the social norms, just as it would be great if we could get water to flow uphill when we need it to.  Neither is realistic.

So how do we get social norms to change, so people's behavior will change?  I agree that government policies can play a huge role in creating change.  Governments respond to activist pressure.  Policies that buck the social norms *require* activist pressure.  Movements like Extinction Rebellion are thus not futile, such activism may be the most crucial tool for individuals to promote needed change.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #265 on: July 15, 2019, 04:52:21 PM »
Did her “research” include finding a local EV group, seeing how they manage obstacles such as yours, and asking for help?

My daughter works 10 hours per day and often into the weekends for time off, not extra money.  One thing in her daily life she does not have is time.  Her options are charging at work or charging at home, there is no time to go to the "community" every day to charge her vehicle.
...

So that would be a “No,” then. 
What if there are other chargers nearby that aren’t publicly listed, or an EV homeowner willing to share? What if there were someone else close by who really wanted an EV, but needed help affording a Level 2 charger, which could then be shared among many?  What if other EV owners’ experiences could provide direction as to the best EV for her situation, or knew of a used Tesla that might soon be for sale?

Just saying, there are plenty of potential options — if one is really interested, and not merely giving lip service to the idea.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #266 on: July 15, 2019, 06:48:31 PM »
Maybe she can go live even further from work and then take a plane?

Never, I am very disappointed in you. Don’t be a snotty brat to someone who is telling you what his family’s real life is.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #267 on: July 15, 2019, 07:41:10 PM »
Quote
Earl of Frunkpuppy (@28delayslater) 7/13/19, 10:28 AM
Study shows range anxiety is an issue for EV buyers. Consumer reports says the 204 mile range e-tron alleviates range anxiety by having you use a plane
https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1150049293216223232
Textpic at the link.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #268 on: July 15, 2019, 08:05:40 PM »
When I got my 2011 car, my cousin/guardian picked it out for me. When he drives me somewhere now, he cusses out every electric vehicle charging station he sees, so I now know getting an EV would be hopeless for my next one. I would say I drive about 15 km per day...how long would it take to pay off the price premium at that rate? TWINSBURG is planning to put in a charging station but it is not in yet. I live in an apartment style condo with a carport across the parking lot...can’t see charging at home.
Anything I can say to my cousin to make him consider an EV for my future?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

etienne

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #269 on: July 15, 2019, 08:36:33 PM »
 I don't believe that today the EV is the first step toward sustainability. There are other things that I see as much more important and much easier like to stop flying, going to fast food restaurants... EV is for advanced people, excepted greenBAU EV.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #270 on: July 15, 2019, 08:45:15 PM »
I’m flying to Israel next winter, for a pilgrimage, but i’ve only flown a few times in my life before, and I am  sexagenarian.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #271 on: July 15, 2019, 09:17:53 PM »
...
Anything I can say to my cousin to make him consider an EV for my future?

Bribe him into accompanying you on a Tesla test drive. :)  That should get the conversation started.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #272 on: July 15, 2019, 09:45:45 PM »
The UK wants to put electric car charging points in all new homes to support EV adoption
Quote
The full proposal for home charging points details that:

We propose specifying that the chargepoints must have a minimum power rating output of 7kW, be fitted with a universal socket that can charge all types of electric vehicle currently on the market and meet relevant safety and accessibility requirements.

In addition to the home charging requirement, other recommended policy positions include:
   •   The government proposes every new non-residential building and every non-residential building undergoing a major renovation with more than ten car parking spaces to have one chargepoint and cable routes for an electric vehicle chargepoint for one in five spaces.
   •   The government proposes a requirement of at least one chargepoint in existing non-residential buildings with more than 20 car parking spaces, applicable from 2025.

The UK is aiming for net zero emissions by 2050, and electric vehicles are seen as a major key to hitting that target
https://electrek.co/2019/07/15/uk-new-homes-electric-charging/
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #273 on: July 15, 2019, 10:09:06 PM »
I posted this story in the battery forum, here's the part relevant to EVs:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/EV-Giants-Vie-For-Battery-Dominance.html

Quote
Bloomberg New Energy Finance in January released a forecast that saw EV sales at 2.6
million this year. That would be a 40-percent increase over 2018, which, although a lot
smaller than the 70-percent annual jump in EV sales from 2017, is still quite a
respectable growth rate.


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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #274 on: July 15, 2019, 11:45:05 PM »
Over half of new cars purchased in the U.K. are “company cars.”
U.K.:  Electric vehicles will be exempt from company car tax next year
Quote
The Treasury has confirmed this week that company car drivers who choose an emissions-free electric fleet model will pay no benefit-in-kind (BIK) tax for the year as part of new efforts to encourage motorists to switch to green vehicles.

Those who choose pure electric models will pay zero company car tax for the year from April 2020, one per cent tax from April 2021 and two per cent BIK from April 2022, the Government confirmed.   

The measures are designed to increase the uptake of fully electric vehicles among fleets, which contribute to almost six in 10 new car registrations in the UK. ...
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7236585/Electric-vehicles-exempt-company-car-tax-year.html
I work in a large UK company that has thousands of employees with company cars.  Spoke to the manager of the lease fleet today and they have said they will not be making electric vehicles available to staff.

The problem is to get an EV suitable for the kind of mileage being done means a lease price that is double that of it's fossil fuel equivalent.  Which means the tax saving for the employee puts a greater burden on the employer.
They also feel that there would be a significant cost to install sufficient charge points at all the offices.

Can't say how others will react but it looks like lease prices will need to drop by about 30-40% before my work make the change.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #275 on: July 16, 2019, 01:38:39 PM »
Over half of new cars purchased in the U.K. are “company cars.”
U.K.:  Electric vehicles will be exempt from company car tax next year
Quote
The Treasury has confirmed this week that company car drivers who choose an emissions-free electric fleet model will pay no benefit-in-kind (BIK) tax for the year as part of new efforts to encourage motorists to switch to green vehicles.

Those who choose pure electric models will pay zero company car tax for the year from April 2020, one per cent tax from April 2021 and two per cent BIK from April 2022, the Government confirmed.   

The measures are designed to increase the uptake of fully electric vehicles among fleets, which contribute to almost six in 10 new car registrations in the UK. ...
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7236585/Electric-vehicles-exempt-company-car-tax-year.html
I work in a large UK company that has thousands of employees with company cars.  Spoke to the manager of the lease fleet today and they have said they will not be making electric vehicles available to staff.

The problem is to get an EV suitable for the kind of mileage being done means a lease price that is double that of it's fossil fuel equivalent.  Which means the tax saving for the employee puts a greater burden on the employer.
They also feel that there would be a significant cost to install sufficient charge points at all the offices.

Can't say how others will react but it looks like lease prices will need to drop by about 30-40% before my work make the change.

 :'(
Looks like there needs to be a bigger carbon emissions tax, or more ICE restrictions, to sweeten the deal until “doing the right thing” becomes the only acceptable option.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #276 on: July 16, 2019, 03:35:21 PM »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #277 on: July 16, 2019, 04:42:40 PM »
Ford's Letting Us Down on Electric Cars (Updated)
Quote
The Ford Motor Company bravely and ambitiously announced today that it would be launching an all-electric model... based on existing MEB platform architecture cribbed from Volkswagen. The VW I.D. 3, sharing that platform, is planned for launch next summer. Ford is going all-in on this electric thing and is ready to prove it by announcing outsourced tech that will take four more years to reach production. That seems, I don’t know, kind of weak?

Ford has had every opportunity to jump on the battery electric vehicle bandwagon, but has instead decided a half-assed approach is more sensible.

With the death of the Focus in the U.S. market, so too goes the company’s lone EV. Despite introducing an electric Ranger in 1997 and the Escape Hybrid in 2004, Ford’s current electrified lineup is limited to a hybrid Explorer, as well as a traditional hybrid and PHEV version of the Fusion. Which looks even worse when the Fusion is likely to be discontinued in 2020.

Back in 2017 Ford announced that it would launch a new all-electric SUV with “at least 300 miles of range,” and electrified versions of the F-150, Mustang, and Transit Connect. Not only did the company promise these were coming, but it even put a date on it. “Before 2020” Ford said. Instead, more delays, and job cuts.

Forgive me for thinking Ford flat-out doesn’t care about the EV or hybrid car market, but the company’s actions seem to indicate it doesn’t. By kicking this Volkswagen deal out another four years, Ford is committing to nothing. Not resources, not tech, not dealer showroom space.

It’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that electrified tech is the future of transportation. By dumping sedans, investing in SUVs, and continually pushing back EV tech, Ford is being incredibly shortsighted. True, there’s an electric F-150 coming, as well as a “Mustang-inspired” EV crossover, but again, that stuff is way off. We haven’t seen any of it yet. And by the time they debut, Ford will still be behind several key competitors in terms of EVs. (Ford, it must be noted, is investing half a billion dollars into EV truck startup Rivian apparently for an all-new vehicle—but again, we don’t know what all that looks like yet.) ...
https://jalopnik.com/fords-letting-us-down-on-electric-cars-1836324309

Related:
Scoop: Ford To Partner With Electrify America For Customer Access To EV Charging Network | CleanTechnica
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/13/exclusive-ford-to-partner-with-electrify-america-for-customer-access-to-ev-charging-network/
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #278 on: July 17, 2019, 12:35:41 PM »
Don't say you're serious about AGW and then come up with these lame anecdotes. It's neither constructive or fair. I'd be ashamed to say those things, especially in a venue such as this one.

Neven we own a Citroen C3, 132g/km CO2 and we use it for our running around when we don't need the big car.  It is 12 years old, construction CO2 fully mitigated, but I have only just got it back on the road after some dick with a flatbed van ran into the side of the car and trashed the door pillar and drivers door.

I was looking at Gridwatch today and for the 21.4GW of installed wind capacity in the UK, we were getting 2.4GW of wind generated.  CCGT was at 33GW.

You chose a single instance of my bikes being trailered home.  I used it as an example to contradict the, increasingly common, belief that nobody needs a range of more than 150 miles in an EV And 300 is overkill.  I have owned one of those bikes since 2013, it is the first time (and last), that I have/will, trailer them anywhere.  I will, however, pull my Honda Pan Euro back to the UK because I need it for commuting and it has no tax or MOT so is illegal to ride there.

I have said, many times, that solar was crippled in the EU because the EU levied 50% tariffs on Chinese imports so that Germany could compete.

Not One Single Word of condemnation on that one.

Realism is not lacking seriousness.  I live on Nuclear electricity, I heat my home with sustainably forested wood (direct choice to avoid gas which is installed into my home) and, outside of my need to work away from home, limit my emissions.

Finally solar has appeared in panels of a reasonable price with inverters of a reasonable price for installing and moving my electricity to renewable. Should I get back into work this month and stay in work for 6 months I will start installing.  Great you say.  Not really, this is a cost thing for me, my power is nuclear and I won't be plugging my solar into the Grid because the French Grid charges €8,000 to do so.  So much for governments encouraging people to reduce their CO2 emissions.

Since 2013 the I have never been able to sustain full time work over a full year.  This is an impact of the financial crisis and the austerity that comes with it.  So I can't just sign a form and have someone else do the heavy lifting of sustainability for me.  I have to do it myself.

I looked at EV's but I buy second hand.  Viable cars?  Nothing under £30,000.  I don't have £30,000 in the bank, so I won't be buying one.

If you think that I'm not committed, then so be it.  But I'm not alone.  Don't worry, I won't be saying any more about Wind fairy stories or how Nuclear is a viable low CO2 solution.  Perhaps I should become a GSY fanboy.  Perhaps that would be a better approach?  The problem is I couldn't stand it for a second.
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oren

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #279 on: July 17, 2019, 12:55:40 PM »
NeilT, I for one appreciate your real life anecdotes, even if I sometimes disagree with the conclusions. It's still actual useful data.
I also resonate with the difficulties of trying to live more sustainably while embedded in a society and an economy not geared towards that goal, while running a family where not every member is necessarily on board with the full goal and its sacrifices, and while trying to earn a living and prepare for the (rather grim) future, and even enjoy life from time to time.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #280 on: July 17, 2019, 04:09:26 PM »
... prepare for the (rather grim) future, and even enjoy life from time to time.

I regularly see tweets from Tesla owners enjoying and appreciating their car (often because it just saved them from a crash!).  My point being that moving toward sustainability today is not always an unpleasant chore, or a major inconvenience, or a money-losing proposition.  It can involve saving money in the long term, as well as fun playing video games, or unleashing fart noises on unsuspecting travelers. ;)  ;D

A Tesla, or any EV, may not be the right solution for everyone today — and even it it were, there aren’t yet enough of them for everyone who wants one.  But when someone who needs a car lists reason after reason... after reason... why an EV won’t work…  it simply begs for a creative alternative (and a different mind-set) that would.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #281 on: July 18, 2019, 06:59:43 PM »
Volkswagen compares EV ‘mission’ to 1969 moon landing, touts electric plan in new video
Quote
… some goals of VW’s plan:
   •   Invest $50 billion worldwide by 2023 towards an electric future
   •   Introduce 70 new all-electric models globally by 2028
   •   Invest ~$800m to expand our Chattanooga plant to build EVs
   •   And to go carbon neutral globally by 2050.

The video is backed by an early demo version of David Bowie’s “Space Oddity.” Here’s the full minute-long clip:



The campaign’s print ad, which does showcase the ID. BUZZ, brings the moon connection a bit more into focus:
https://electrek.co/2019/07/18/volkswagen-moon-landing-video/
Image below.
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #282 on: July 18, 2019, 07:17:12 PM »

I was looking at Gridwatch today and for the 21.4GW of installed wind capacity in the UK, we were getting 2.4GW of wind generated.  CCGT was at 33GW.


The UK is on track to generate more electricity from renewables than fossil fuels this year.

https://www.edie.net/news/6/UK-to-use-more-electricity-from-renewables-than-coal-for-first-time-in-2019/

Quote
Published today (21 June), the data reveals that clean energy sources - wind, solar, nuclear and hydropower – generated 47.9% of Britain’s electricity between January and May, compared to 46.7% for coal and gas-fired sources.

National Grid predicts that this trend will continue until the end of 2019 and that the latter half of the year is likely to see renewables take an even bigger share of the electricity mix, partly due to new North Sea Link’s upcoming connection to Norway’s hydropower network. Moreover, next year will see one of the UK’s six remaining coal power stations, SSE’s Fiddler’s Ferry in Cheshire, decommissioned.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #283 on: July 18, 2019, 08:26:21 PM »
Uber's mock city, built to test #DriverlessCars
https://twitter.com/ganeshatkale/status/1150249411219320832

Brief video at the link.
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sidd

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #284 on: July 19, 2019, 09:55:59 PM »
Toyota partners with major battery suppliers:

"Contemporary Amperex Technology (CATL), the world's largest supplier of electric vehicle (EV) batteries"

"partnerships with Chinese supplier BYD and Panasonic"

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/toyota-deal-worlds-largest-EV-battery-supplier/558969/

sidd

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #285 on: July 20, 2019, 08:45:50 PM »
In May 2019, 16% of the global EV battery total went to the Tesla Model 3.
Add Models S/X, and Tesla delivered 22% of the global total in May 2019, versus just 18% a year ago – a boost driven entirely by rising sales of the Model 3.
“Inferring from the company’s strong Q3/Q4 sales record, Tesla is conservatively on track to exceed 20 GWh deployed by 2019 year-end.”

Runner up at only 4% is the BYD Yuan, a Ford EcoSport copycat.
The Nissan Leaf is in the fifth position, with 3 percent of all EV battery packs produced in May.
Quote
From January to May in 2018, Tesla managed to deploy more than 1 GWh of EV battery pack capacity in only one month…. In 2019, in the same period of time, Tesla did that three times.
In other words, of the first five months of 2019, three had an EV battery pack deployment of over 1 GWh. Way over, by the way, since the total amount of power delivered by Tesla vehicles reached more than 7 GWh of capacity.
https://insideevs.com/news/360161/16-percent-batteries-model-3/amp/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #286 on: July 20, 2019, 10:20:24 PM »
Countries need more charging infrastructure.  But who is the best to lead the effort?

London: More Than 50,000 EV Charging Points By 2025
Quote
The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, and his Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Taskforce have some serious plans to transition London to zero-emissions transport as fast as possible. According to a report (link to full PDF) from the mayor’s office, the government aims to provide Londoners with at least 50,000 electric vehicle charge points by 2025.

According to the Mayor of London, the air quality is now the worst in the city’s history. It turns out that Khan himself has developed asthma as an adult and the city’s air pollution has contributed to it significantly. The Mayor and the local London government is now dedicated to improving the lives of current and upcoming generations by accelerating adoption to EVs and, in addition, transition the public transport infrastructure to electric. …
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/19/london-more-than-50000-ev-charging-points-by-2025/

———
Tesla has left European carmakers standing
From Jonathan Eaton, Amsterdam, The Netherlands — The most read letter of the last week
Quote
European manufacturers were sleeping when Tesla built a network of 1,533 superfast charging stations. This means that today a Tesla customer can drive from Faro in Portugal to the edge of the Arctic Circle in Sorkjosen, Norway. (“One the grid: The race in Europe to launch electric cars”, July 6.)
The company’s European competitors have combined assets and revenues that dwarf Tesla 30 times over. Therefore we should ask whether it is wise for governments to shore up the boardroom ineptness of the car industry at the expense of consumers.

As an example: in Amsterdam the local government drove through a policy of giving one supplier, Nuon (part of the Vattenfall group), the rights to install and run street- based chargers. The result has been a charging price that makes electric more expensive than petrol and a string of charging points that are frequently out of action. In this area policies should encourage competition, reliability and interoperability without spending a single cent of taxpayers’ money.

Jonathan Eaton
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
https://www.ft.com/content/c44df42c-9f24-11e9-9c06-a4640c9feebb?ftcamp=traffic/partner/feed_headline/us_yahoo/auddev&yptr=yahoo
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #287 on: July 21, 2019, 04:04:14 AM »
Quote
JPR007 (@jpr007) 7/20/19, 12:35 PM
Diesel cars are increasingly banned in European cities and sentiment has moved strongly against those vehicles.
63% of Europeans no longer consider purchasing a diesel car an option.
This European research is from AutoScout24, the largest online car portal in the Netherlands.
https://twitter.com/jpr007/status/1152618154759114752
- Diesel market in EU is dead with 63% against.
EV market in EU gains with 42% support.


Nederland Elektrisch
https://nederlandelektrisch.nl/actueel/het-nieuws-in-1-minuut/i1306/het-nieuws-in-1-minuut-maandag-8-juli-zondag-15-juli-2019
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #288 on: July 21, 2019, 04:25:33 AM »
Quote
Tesla New York (@TeslaNY) 7/19/19, 8:45 PM
Nemak to shut Canada plant that supplies engine blocks to @GM in China  “They told me that sales have dropped dramatically,” said Unifor Local 200 President D'Agnolo autonews.com/suppliers/nema…
https://twitter.com/teslany/status/1152378847075143680

——-
Quote
Automotive News (@Automotive_News) 7/19/19, 2:02 PM
GM's partner in China, SAIC, braces for first annual sales drop, report says dlvr.it/R8kPTC
https://twitter.com/automotive_news/status/1152277457635930112

=====
Quote
CBC Canadian News (@CBCCanada) 7/19/19, 5:44 PM
200 jobs on the chopping block at Ford's Oakville, Ont., plant, starting in September cbc.ca/news/canada/to…
https://twitter.com/cbccanada/status/1152333429507313669
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 04:37:12 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #289 on: July 21, 2019, 06:09:22 PM »
U.S.:  “The plan proposes to freeze those fuel economy increases at 2020 levels through 2026, requiring cars and trucks to average about 37 mpg, rather than increase them to 47 mpg by 2025 as current law requires.”

Report: EPA delays proposed fuel economy plan until September—or later
Quote
Now both automakers and the Governors of 23 states, including some red electoral bastions and several purple battlegrounds that President Trump relied on in his election, have released public letters opposing the freeze in standards. California, with 17 other states, has sued the EPA over the proposal's plan to rescind its EPA waiver, and to attack its future right to set its own standards.

If the standards are frozen, that lawsuit would likely move forward in court and lead to years of division in state standards and uncertainty for automakers. Since automakers are already developing cars for the 2023 model year and beyond, that uncertainty would certainly be costly.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1124123_report-epa-delays-proposed-fuel-economy-plan-until-september-or-later
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rboyd

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #290 on: July 21, 2019, 10:37:31 PM »
Chinese Plug-In EV Market Surges Again In June 2019 - 8.5% market share in June, 6.3% year to date

A 10%+ market share by the end of the year certainly looks doable, way ahead of the US and Europe. Domestic producers continue to have an over 90% share of the Chinese EV market.

Quote
Plug-in electric car sales in China returned to solid growth in June after just 2% growth in May. Last month, almost 147,000 new passenger NEV sales translated into 72% growth rate at a high 8.5% market share.

Not bad compared to the 8% decline of general passenger car sales in China. It seems also that June's result was the second-best ever!

The first half of 2019 closed with total sales of roughly 633,000 at an average market share of 6.3%

https://insideevs.com/news/360749/chinese-plugin-market-surges-june-2019/

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #291 on: July 22, 2019, 03:51:49 AM »
Electric trucks!

Rivian R1T Electric Pickup Truck Now In Production
Quote
Body panels are now being stamped.
Rivian has just announced that production of some parts for its R1T electric pickup truck is now underway. It seems Rivian will beat Tesla in launching an electric truck.

These parts are almost surely for pre-production prototypes. Those trucks will be utilized for extensive testing purposes along with evaluation and so on. Further down the road, near-production versions will be made.

It all has to start somewhere though and for Rivian, this is the beginning of actual production. Rivian has several sites around the world. Production will take place at an old Mitsubishi plant in Normal, Illinois.

Rivian has With its largest battery pack, it provides over 400 miles of range (200 of which can be added in 30 minutes via DC fast charging). To top it off, four independent 147kW motors control 3,500 Nm of grounded torque to each wheel and provide a combined output of 14,000 Nm of torque and some 800 horsepower. …
https://insideevs.com/news/361009/rivian-r1t-pickup-truck-start-production/amp/

——
Cadillac Escalade EV SUV Is Coming With 400 Miles Of Range
Quote
According to Cadillac Society, the upcoming 5th generation of the Cadillac Escalade will be offered with three powertrain options, including an all-electric option.
The electric version will not be available right from the start in 2021, but will come at some point a bit later on.
Anyways, the most important hint from unofficial sources is that expected range of Cadillac Escalade EV will be upwards of 400 miles (644 km), which when taking into consideration size and weight of the Escalade, suggests a huge battery pack. …
https://insideevs.com/news/360965/cadillac-escalade-ev-400-miles-range/

—-
Nissan launches electric pickup truck with “250-mile range” [NEDC] through JV in China
Quote
As for the powertrain, it is equipped with a single 160 hp/420 Nm electric motor and a 68 kWh battery pack.

Dongfeng claims a range of 403 km (250 miles) on a single charge, but that’s using the NEDC standard, which is generally nowhere near a normal use case.

The top speed is 110 km/h (68 mph) and the company says that it is fast-charging capable. Without confirming the max charge rate, Dongfeng says that it takes 45 minutes to get to 80% state-of-charge.

The Dongfeng Rich 6 EV should hit the market as soon as next month. The price is unknown, but it is expected to be extremely cheap — maybe even 130,000 yuan ($18,900 USD) after subsidies.
https://electrek.co/2019/07/16/nissan-electric-pickup-truck-dongfeng-rich-6-ev/

Images below: Rivian, Escalade.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #292 on: July 22, 2019, 01:26:52 PM »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #293 on: July 22, 2019, 05:31:42 PM »
BMW's potential EV program revival to be decided as Oliver Zipse nears new CEO post
Quote
BMW’s electric car initiative is at a crossroads. After mostly being shelved by outgoing CEO Harald Krüger during his years leading the company, BMW’s EV program has the potential to see a revival with the naming of its new chief executive.
...
Auto analysts and industry experts believe that it will take more than manufacturing expertise to lead BMW into the EV era. In a statement to Reuters, Carsten Breitfeld, a former BMW engineer who currently serves as the chief executive of China-based ICONIQ motors, noted that Zipse’s apparent appointment “goes far beyond optimizing an existing business.” “He needs to be able to build teams, to attract key talent, and to promote a culture which is increasingly oriented along consumer electronics and internet dynamics,” the former BMW engineer said.

One key aspect that Zipse would have to work on is BMW’s electric car program, which has lagged against rivals like Mercedes-Benz and Audi, both of which have already released, or a least unveiled, their own premium all-electric vehicles. BMW actually had an early lead with the i3, but the vehicle was practically abandoned by the company when it failed to get traction.

Silicon Valley-based Tesla, a newcomer on the market, has so far established a substantial lead in the EV space, and its Model 3 sedan has started eating into the sales of popular gas-powered four-doors like the BMW 3-Series. UBS analyst Patrick Hummel addressed this, stating that “Tesla has a lead of three to four years in areas like software and electronics. The millennials are much more focused on these things. There is a risk that the Germans can’t catch up.” 

BMW had already made a mistake in electric vehicles once. During the time of the i3, it was reported that CEO Harald Krüger’s reluctance to push low-margin EVs ultimately led to an exodus of talented engineers. Among these are Christian Senger, who is now a board member responsible for software for Volkswagen, and Markus Duesmann, who is reportedly in line to be Audi’s CEO in the future. If BMW does decide on Zipse, it could have another chance at breaking through the emerging EV market, albeit late. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-bmw-ev-revival-new-ceo-oliver-zipse/
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Tom_Mazanec

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #295 on: July 22, 2019, 06:46:58 PM »
Blocking Tesla superchargers shows anger/desperation, but if I were an Audi dealer in Stuttgart (a strong Audi area), I might try this method:

Stuttgart, Germany:  Audi doubles down on e-tron offensive, promotes SUV in front of Tesla store
https://www.teslarati.com/audi-e-tron-marketing-offensive-tesla-store/
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TerryM

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #296 on: July 22, 2019, 07:12:00 PM »
From the crowd gathered it seems to be effective. 8)
Terry

Ken Feldman

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #297 on: July 22, 2019, 07:47:20 PM »
EVs reaching the tipping point in Europe.

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Electric-Vehicle-Sales-Are-Exploding-In-Europe.html

Quote

Electric Vehicle Sales Are Exploding In Europe

By Tsvetana Paraskova - Jul 21, 2019, 10:00 AM CDT

The next two years are likely to be the tipping point for electric vehicles (EVs) going mainstream in Europe, as the number of electric car models on the European market is set to more than triple in the next three years, Transport & Environment (T&E), Europe’s leading clean transport campaign group, says in a new analysis.

According to T&E, which analyzed the upcoming offerings using data from authoritative industry source IHS Markit, the number of EV models made across the European Union (EU) will jump from around 60 models available at end-2018 to a total of 214 battery electric (BEV), plug-in hybrid (PHEV), and fuel cell (FCEV) models in 2021, and further up to 333 models in 2025.

“Until recently, the EV market was limited to a niche of early adopters but tomorrow’s landscape will be very different as EVs enter a new phase and near the mass market,” the report from T&E says.

Based on IHS Markit’s light vehicle production forecast data and in-house T&E analysis, the production of EVs in Europe is set to surge six-fold between 2019 and 2025, reaching more than 4 million cars and vans. This production volume would account more than a fifth of the EU car production volumes.

rboyd

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #298 on: July 22, 2019, 11:18:30 PM »
Quote
Based on IHS Markit’s light vehicle production forecast data and in-house T&E analysis, the production of EVs in Europe is set to surge six-fold between 2019 and 2025, reaching more than 4 million cars and vans. This production volume would account more than a fifth of the EU car production volumes.

Given that the European car market is a replacement one (news cars tend to replace older ones) this should certainly make a significant dent in European oil consumption. With Chinese EV sales growing so fast that country's oil demand growth should flatten out at the least (remembering that most new cars there add to the fleet size). With the US pretty stable to falling, the oil market will be running out of positive demand drivers.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #299 on: July 23, 2019, 02:48:46 AM »
Quote
Audi (@Audi) 7/2/19, 2:13 PM
The Audi A6 brings the heat. Introducing the Summer of Audi Sales Event.
https://twitter.com/audi/status/1146119779553632257

Bringing more greenhouse gas emissions.  And waste heat.  During a heatwave. ::)
Audi marketing is either unbelievably out of touch… or, they are acutely aware that the only people considering buying an Audi A6 are the minority who have no knowledge or concern about climate change or air pollution.
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