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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1000 on: December 03, 2019, 02:44:13 AM »
Yesterday I wrote in the Tesla thread:

For me personally, there still isn't an electric car that really suits my family's needs, and it looks like Sono Motors will never build the Sion.

And a couple of hours later, there was this news from Sono Motors (after a long silence, which had already led to my conclusion they were in trouble)...


Oh, Neven, I feel so terrible for you; I know you thought this car would be a good fit. 

It probably won’t make you feel any better, but the first people who took a chance and ordered the original, very expensive Roadster from that newfangled Tesla company faced much the same obstacles — increasing prices, and delay after delay — and they were very unhappy about it.  The odds of a new EV startup being successful are so small!  As Musk said, “I know we’ll probably fail.  We’re going to do it anyway.”

I agree with others who say waiting is probably the best option.  See how the ID3 turns out.  There is speculation that once the cybertruck comes out (~2 years), the price of the Model 3 may well decrease.  By that time, there may also be more news about a cheaper “Model 2.”  And given the financial upheaval the OEMs are going through, stuff could happen that we can’t even imagine would be possible today. Governments may step in with assistance to make more affordable EVs available to more people, to keep some of the legacy companies in business.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1001 on: December 03, 2019, 02:52:29 AM »
Drivers in France are lining up for hours to buy gas, in anticipation of a strike this week.
Quote
Elon CyberMasked (@TheElonMasked) 12/2/19, 12:42 PM
It kept going for about 200-300 meters
Probably [hours] of waiting, to be able to pay 1.50€/L ($7/gal) ...
https://twitter.com/theelonmasked/status/1201557137475940353
[15 second vid at the link driving past a line of vehicles waiting to get gas.]


- Big strikes in France planned for the 5th, people are getting their petrol right now to avoid even longer lines starting Thursday
< Is that a line for gas?
- It is...
Strikes are planned for the 5th of December, closing down most of France's refineries
Once again, these strikes are 3 DAYS from now! and people are already lining up because we're used to this, we know are rare petrol becomes when there's a strike
- Meanwhile, you can come back home in your EV and just... plug in.
Strikes NEVER affect the electricity grid, and the grid is one of the most reliable in the world
Petrol is around 1.50€/L vs. 0.12€/kWh
Yet EV adoption in France is extremely low, go figure
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1002 on: December 03, 2019, 12:39:51 PM »
The author has clearly never heard of the 3 day week.

Never is a very long day.
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kassy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1003 on: December 03, 2019, 02:07:01 PM »
Or the author is just writing about France?
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Neven

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1004 on: December 03, 2019, 02:34:25 PM »
Thanks, oren, sig. Maybe we'll revert to our old plan of buying an EV with a tow hitch (that's how we found out about the Sion), but they're still rare. Maybe the ID.3 will have one (optionally).

If the Cybertruck were 1000 kg lighter, and a lot lower so as not to kill everyone in its way in case of an accident, I'd be very tempted to order it.

For now, we're good with the i-MiEV, which is a great little car. Can't believe it's already been a year since we bought it.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1005 on: December 03, 2019, 02:48:14 PM »
Previous draft’s goal of 60% of sales by 2035 was scrapped because BEV’s “will be mainstream” by then.

China Raises 2025 Electrified-Car Sales Target to About 25%
Quote
China raised its 2025 sales target for electrified cars as the government tries to spur an industry that’s showing signs of slowing down.
The country wants about 25% of new cars sold by 2025 to be electrified, according to a draft policy published by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology on Tuesday. Its last roadmap on the industry announced in 2017 called for new energy vehicles -- all-electric, fuel-celled autos and plug-in hybrids -- to make up more than 20% of vehicle sales by 2025.
...
In a previous version of a new draft policy earlier this year, the government called for electrified vehicles to account for 60% of sales by 2035, according to people familiar with the matter. In the latest draft, a percentage goal for 2035 was omitted. Instead, it said that pure electric cars will become mainstream by that year, fuel cell autos will be widely available and all vehicles used by the utility sector will be powered by electricity.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-raises-2025-electrified-car-065253542.html
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crandles

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1006 on: December 03, 2019, 03:15:08 PM »
Quote
we realized that the expectations of the classical investment world and our values in fact, do not match. We faced the risk of losing our key technologies to investors, who do not share our convictions.

Sounds like an admission the project doesn't make sense financially (unless they have investors they can lean on for more funds rather than the investors leaning on them). Providing some security for loans wouldn't be a problem if they were confident of successfully making progress required so it sounds like they are not confident of that.

The financial hard headed decision seems clear, don't throw good money after bad.

However sometimes arrangements work out better than refusing to agree to such arrangements. If they are only asking for a small fraction of the deposit amount which you would be likely writing off if people generally refuse, then who knows it might be worth a punt.

But to me, this sounds like a long way to go - even if they get the 50 million Euros, there is another round of financing required after that in which you might be pressed for more investment.... and if it sounds like they are not confident of sufficient success to make it financially viable then .....

Proper advice might need a lot more info, this is just my impression from what you have provided.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1007 on: December 03, 2019, 04:09:40 PM »
.......Maybe we'll revert to our old plan of buying an EV with a tow hitch (that's how we

Since long i'm wondering when the first manufacturer shall come up with kind of a car-trailer that has a battery pack to extend range (capacity) when needed.

Let's take your iMiev or any other 5 seater with a relatively small range below 400km that would have to make it to visit relatives or for a holiday trip.

I could imagine that the possibility to add a huge battery back, perhaps even rentable when needed, to make the trip and give it back for every day use scenarios (distances)

Just sharing a thought that crossed my mind due to the huge lag of exchangeable batteries development or market introduction on a larger scale.

NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1008 on: December 03, 2019, 05:49:25 PM »
.......Maybe we'll revert to our old plan of buying an EV with a tow hitch (that's how we

Since long i'm wondering when the first manufacturer shall come up with kind of a car-trailer that has a battery pack to extend range (capacity) when needed.

Let's take your iMiev or any other 5 seater with a relatively small range below 400km that would have to make it to visit relatives or for a holiday trip.

I could imagine that the possibility to add a huge battery back, perhaps even rentable when needed, to make the trip and give it back for every day use scenarios (distances)

Just sharing a thought that crossed my mind due to the huge lag of exchangeable batteries development or market introduction on a larger scale.

There was one mooted but they ditched it about the same time Tesla stopped swapping batteries.

A combination of larger battery sizes and faster charge times rendered it redundant.  It is out there on the Web somewhere.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1009 on: December 03, 2019, 05:54:40 PM »
Any solution yet about the microplastic emissions from electric car tires?

Has the life of the humans digging up important electric car resources improved? Do you empatize with them?

;)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1010 on: December 03, 2019, 06:18:11 PM »
Reminder:  the majority of the chemical makeup of Tesla’s battery is Nickel.  Lithium is merely a “salt” added to the mix.

Lithium produced for Tesla’s batteries is less polluting than 31 cups of coffee: researcher
Quote
To produce the lithium needed for a 64 kWh battery pack, for example, Fichtner stated that about 3840 liters of water are evaporated according to usual calculation methods. This is roughly comparable to the production of 250 grams of beef, 30 cups of coffee, or half a pair of jeans, according to the researcher.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-batteries-less-polluting-than-30-cups-coffee-researcher/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1011 on: December 03, 2019, 07:46:10 PM »
Is an EV that’s just like their ICE car really what today’s buyers want?

In Tesla’s shadow, Audi and Mercedes electric SUVs get no love
Quote
The pendulum keeps swinging. Reactions against weird-mobiles like the BMW i3 and first-gen LEAF sent a message that classic automotive beauty is needed for EVs. Tesla proved that EVs could be cool cars, full stop. Then Elon flipped the script again with the Cybertruck. And the Mustang Mach-E arrived.

The problem for the German automakers (and the EV movement) is that as 2020 rolls around, consumers will see sedate German luxury EVs in a blur of sameness. The more time that passes, the problem gets worse. The long gap between BMW’s i3 and the eventual release of its electric SUVs puts the company further behind the times.

Meanwhile, the Mercedes-Benz EQC’s $67,900 price does not have a convincing ring to it, especially when you consider that the out-the-door cost for most buyers will be a lot more. It will have to compete for savvy customers who can pay $20,000 less for a vehicle with more pizzaz. …
https://electrek.co/2019/12/03/in-teslas-shadow-audi-and-mercedes-electric-suvs-get-no-love/

——-
Reviving The “Tesla Deathwatch” — With A Totally Different Spin
Quote
…markets for well established goods can collapse at nearly unimaginable rates as new technology disrupts the old. In 2000, absolutely no one expected that physical film sales would topple as fast at they did. In 10 years, Kodak lost 85% of its sales to the disruptive change that digital cameras brought about.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/18/reviving-the-tesla-deathwatch-with-a-totally-different-spin/

——
CleanTechnica’s Top 20 articles from last week.  “8 articles about the Tesla Cybertruck, 6 about other Tesla topics, 3 about the Ford Mustang Mach-E, and then a few other stories. “
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/29/tesla-cybertruck-induced-pickle-tesla-competition-deathwatch-vws-tesla-shade-cleantechnica-top-20/

—-
 ;D
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nanning

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1012 on: December 03, 2019, 07:55:05 PM »
It isn't just nickel, and you must know that Sig.
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1013 on: December 03, 2019, 08:02:31 PM »
Quote
Has the life of the humans digging up important electric car resources improved? Do you empathize with them?

The worlds major suppler of lithium is Australia.
Quote
Oct 17, 2019 - A mid-career Miner with 5-9 years of experience earns an average total compensation of AU$122,607
I don't think $122.607 a year is in need of much improvement.

Cobalt is usually the target when they talk of child labor and horrific conditions.
The Democratic Republic of the Congo supply's around 50% of the worlds cobalt
Only about 15% of the cobalt mined in the Congo comes from the Artisanal mining  responsible for the human rights abuses.
Tesla the worlds biggest manufacture of electric cars is making an effort to insure its cobalt is  ethically sourced.
Tesla have also reduced the amount of cobalt used in their battery's and are working to do away with it entirely .

The oil industry uses much of the worlds cobalt in the process to refine petrol.
We never hear about their ethics.

You have been mislead by the campaign to discredit electric cars by the oil industry.

blumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1014 on: December 03, 2019, 08:09:33 PM »
There is also lithium in eastern Germany. Tesla opens a GF in eastern Germany.

Also related: Another battery company apparently coming to Brandenburg.

Link >> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tagesspiegel.de%2Fberlin%2Ftesla-fabrik-in-gruenheide-jetzt-zieht-auch-batteriehersteller-microvast-nach-brandenburg%2F25246518.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1015 on: December 03, 2019, 08:13:45 PM »
It isn't just nickel, and you must know that Sig.

Quote
“Our cells should be called Nickel-Graphite, because primarily the cathode is nickel and the anode side is graphite with silicon oxide… [there’s] a little bit of lithium in there, but it’s like the salt on the salad,” the CEO explained.

Musk said that the amount of lithium in a lithium ion battery is about 2% of its total volume and that “lithium in a salt form is virtually everywhere… there is definitely no supply issues with lithium.”
https://www.benchmarkminerals.com/elon-musk-our-lithium-ion-batteries-should-be-called-nickel-graphite/
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1016 on: December 03, 2019, 10:13:03 PM »
It isn't just nickel, and you must know that Sig.

Quote
“Our cells should be called Nickel-Graphite, because primarily the cathode is nickel and the anode side is graphite with silicon oxide… [there’s] a little bit of lithium in there, but it’s like the salt on the salad,” the CEO explained.

Musk said that the amount of lithium in a lithium ion battery is about 2% of its total volume and that “lithium in a salt form is virtually everywhere… there is definitely no supply issues with lithium.”
https://www.benchmarkminerals.com/elon-musk-our-lithium-ion-batteries-should-be-called-nickel-graphite/

True, but until they get their Maxwell cells out there, they also have Cobalt in these batteries and that is much more polluting.  Not on the scale of the tech in the Prius which has all sorts of nasty stuff in it, but still not totally clean.  Recyclable?  Yes, non harmful?  Not yet.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1017 on: December 04, 2019, 03:36:44 AM »
Carmakers Shedding 80,000 Jobs as Electric Era Upends Industry
Quote
All told, carmakers are eliminating more than 80,000 jobs during the coming years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg News. Although the cuts are concentrated in Germany, the U.S. and the U.K., faster-growing economies haven’t been immune and are seeing automakers scale back operations there.

The German companies joined General Motors Co., Ford Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. in massive retrenchments put in motion over the past year. The industry is sputtering as trade tensions and tariffs raise costs and stifle investment, and as manufacturers reassess their workforce in an era of electrification, autonomous driving and ride-on-demand services. The global auto industry will produce 88.8 million cars and light trucks this year, an almost 6% drop from a year ago, according to researcher IHS Markit.

Cuts are also being carried out in China, which employs the largest number of people in the industry and has been mired in a sales slump. Electric-vehicle startup NIO Inc., which has lost billions of dollars and watched its New York-listed shares plummet, dismissed about 20% of its workforce by the end of September, shedding more than 2,000 jobs.

“The persistent slowdown in global markets will continue to dent automakers’ margins and earnings, which have already been hurt by increased R&D spending for autonomous-driving technology,” said Gillian Davis, an analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. “Many automakers are now focused on cost-saving plans to prevent margin erosion.”

If it were a country, the auto industry would be the world’s sixth-largest economy, according to Fircroft, a technical job-placement firm. In Germany alone, when including local operations of foreign manufacturers, about 150,000 jobs might be at risk in coming years, according to estimates by the Center of Automotive Management, near Cologne.
 …
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-12-03/carmakers-shedding-80-000-jobs-as-electric-era-upends-industry
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1018 on: December 04, 2019, 04:15:05 AM »
Quote
James Stephenson (@ICannot_Enough) 12/2/19, 1:19 PM
Current Altman z-scores, per gurufocus.com, selected automakers:
*higher is better*

1.91 Tesla
1.84 Honda
  (financial distress zone is any score below 1.81)
1.77 Toyota
1.38 Nissan
1.35 Fiat Chrysler
1.14 Volkswagen
1.09 Daimler
1.09 GM
0.95 Ford
0.79 BMW
-4.36 NIO
https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/1201566458586836992

- Altman z-score is a weighted measure of financial strength based on ratios between financial metrics like revenue, earnings, assets, liabilities, and working capital.

Caveat emptor: it does not apply to financial companies (automaker lending artificially lowers their score).

3.25 Geely (Volvo)
2.83 Suzuki
1.25 Hyundai/Kia
0.79 Renault
0.75 Tata (Jaguar/Land Rover)
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1019 on: December 04, 2019, 06:51:16 PM »
Model Y spotted with tow hitch. Capabilities.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/03/tesla-model-y-prototype-spotted-tow-hitch/amp/

Clearly Tesla is thinking about it.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1020 on: December 04, 2019, 09:10:51 PM »
Model Y spotted with tow hitch. Capabilities.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/03/tesla-model-y-prototype-spotted-tow-hitch/amp/

Clearly Tesla is thinking about it.

I knew, in a general way, that Europeans make frequent use of small trailers with their small cars.
But the comments to the article make it clear that lack of a trailer hitch would be an absolute deal-breaker for many potential buyers in Scandinavia, Germany, and Australia.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1021 on: December 04, 2019, 09:22:33 PM »
Rivian to provide skateboard chassis for electric Lincoln SUV
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/rivian-to-provide-skateboard-chassis-for-electric-lincoln-suv/

—-
The iNext will be a small crossover, “relatively affordable mass volume electric car.”  To be made on the same line as BMW’s gas-powered and hybrid vehicles in Dingolfing plant. Expected to go into production in 2021.
BMW invests $400 million in production of its Tesla Model Y competitor: the iNext
https://electrek.co/2019/12/03/bmw-invests-production-inext-tesla-model-y-competitor/

—-
Video shows impressive crash test results, even on the side-pole intrusion test (please note, no battery fires!) — but pedestrian tests are quite exciting:  looks like the car barely misses them.
Porsche Taycan achieves 5-star safety rating from Euro NCAP
https://electrek.co/2019/12/04/porsche-taycan-5-star-safety-rating-euro-ncap/

—-
It sucks to be ICE-d out of a charging spot. Last Thursday, EV-driving parliament members spoke up loud and clear in a debate over ICE-ing.
Ontario parliament’s red-hot debate over $125 fee for ICE cars blocking EV charging stations
https://electrek.co/2019/12/03/ontario-parliaments-red-hot-debate-over-125-fee-for-ice-cars-blocking-ev-charging-stations/
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1022 on: December 04, 2019, 09:25:33 PM »
Some 15 years ago a friend put a bike rack on the back of her Prius so she could take her bicycle on a vacation in Ontario, Canada.  On her return, she almost lamented her decision as her mileage was horrible due to the added wind resistance (and Interstate speeds).  A little aerodynamic trailer would do better, I presume.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1023 on: December 05, 2019, 02:20:20 AM »
Cobalt.
Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 6/13/18, 2:38 PM
We use less than 3% cobalt in our batteries & will use none in next gen
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1006968985760366592

”For now, electric car makers are in a game of cobalt reduction, and in this sense, Tesla has a notable lead. The batteries used in Volkswagen’s well-received ID.3 hatchback, for example, contain about 12-14% cobalt.”
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-batteries-less-polluting-than-30-cups-coffee-researcher/


More cobalt is used in oil refining than anywhere else.
Desulphurisation | Cobalt Institute
Quote
The use of cobalt in desulphurisation reactions represents the highest tonnage of cobalt use in the catalyst sector.
https://www.cobaltinstitute.org/desulphurisation.html
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1024 on: December 05, 2019, 11:23:41 AM »
All true Sig but with 80 million cars a year EV cobalt use would tower over everything and even at 1% a billion EV batteries would be a significant environmental risk.

The sooner we get Cobalt out of EV batteries, the better.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1025 on: December 05, 2019, 11:42:15 AM »
Well, the companies using Cobalt are not and will not be the ones providing high volume EV output anyway. So, we are good.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1026 on: December 05, 2019, 12:59:45 PM »
In the UK at least the Tesla Model 3 is available to specify with a Tow Hitch


NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1027 on: December 05, 2019, 01:54:32 PM »
Well, the companies using Cobalt are not and will not be the ones providing high volume EV output anyway. So, we are good.
VAG plans 22m by 2030.  By 3 years from now Tesla will be pushing out more than 1M per year.

That level of competition will suck in others.

Those latest to the party will use the dirtiest and least recyclable tech, if current trends are anything to go by.

Not the best situation. We will move from one form of pollution to another.

Worse is that any EV, driving in Poland, will cause over 130g CO2 per KM from the power infrastructure unless there are some very serious moves to CO2 neutral tech.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1028 on: December 05, 2019, 09:11:17 PM »
Well, the companies using Cobalt are not and will not be the ones providing high volume EV output anyway. So, we are good.
VAG plans 22m by 2030.  By 3 years from now Tesla will be pushing out more than 1M per year.

That level of competition will suck in others.

Those latest to the party will use the dirtiest and least recyclable tech, if current trends are anything to go by.

Not the best situation. We will move from one form of pollution to another.

Worse is that any EV, driving in Poland, will cause over 130g CO2 per KM from the power infrastructure unless there are some very serious moves to CO2 neutral tech.

Or, you could look at it that EV batteries use less cobalt than petroleum processing, so that’s a win for at least several years.  And major battery manufacturers are already targeting a reduction in their colbalt use.  So “latest to the party” EV manufacturers will get their batteries from suppliers that only offer cleaner versions.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1029 on: December 05, 2019, 09:14:07 PM »
Provides changes to thermal management, regenerative braking, active aerodynamics, and allows running the battery to a lower state of charge than previously.  Also, updates display graphics, and adds the potential for OTA updates.
Jaguar is unlocking 8% more range in the I-Pace through software update
https://electrek.co/2019/12/05/jaguar-i-pace-unlocking-range-software-update/

—-
A source also tells Reuters that the modular batteries from the factory will be used for multiple GM vehicles, including a future Cadillac EV.
LG Chem and GM to invest $2B for Ohio battery factory; Cadillac EV on tap
Quote
In July it was announced that LG Chem was working on a potential new billion-dollar US battery cell factory for electric cars. Today in a security filing in South Korea, LG Chem confirmed that investment, and that GM will invest another billion.

Reuters reports that the location is expected to be in the area of Lordstown, Ohio, where GM recently sold its factory to an EV startup affiliated with Workhorse. This follows news earlier this week that Piedmont Lithium received an important federal permit to proceed with its lithium mine in Gaston County, North Carolina — the second in North America. Looks like Interstate 77 will be America’s hot new lithium corridor.
https://electrek.co/2019/12/05/lg-chem-and-gm-to-invest-2b-for-ohio-battery-factory/
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1030 on: December 06, 2019, 01:36:19 AM »
Well, the companies using Cobalt are not and will not be the ones providing high volume EV output anyway. So, we are good.
VAG plans 22m by 2030.  By 3 years from now Tesla will be pushing out more than 1M per year.

That level of competition will suck in others.

Those latest to the party will use the dirtiest and least recyclable tech, if current trends are anything to go by.

Not the best situation. We will move from one form of pollution to another.

Worse is that any EV, driving in Poland, will cause over 130g CO2 per KM from the power infrastructure unless there are some very serious moves to CO2 neutral tech.
Those latest to the party will do with less or no cobalt, simply because there will not be enough cobalt, and/or its price will be very high.
And Poland is just one small market for EVs. But even there, EVs emit 25% less CO2 than diesel cars over their lifetime. Hopefully the terrible Polish power mix will improve over time though.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1031 on: December 06, 2019, 09:55:01 AM »
We can hope Oren.  But history doesn't support the Cobalt theory.  Those who try to follow the trailblazers tend to use 1st gen tech and as 3rd gen tech moves on, the Cobalt producers will ramp to the lower market.

It is the way of the world.  It is also why Lada exited the EU car market when the Euro emissions controls started.

We can hope though.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1032 on: December 07, 2019, 05:50:26 PM »
“These companies, especially on the autonomous side, they’re finding it’s harder to develop this stuff than they thought it was going to be, so they’re teaming up to spread those costs and share the expertise that they have across a broader range of vehicles to try and get some scale.”

Automakers investing billions in partnerships as industry races toward autonomous and electric vehicles
Quote
Automakers such as GM are annually spending billions on the emerging technologies in an attempt to gain an upper hand on the potential multitrillion-dollar businesses, which many believe will transform transportation as we know it and assist in lowering global carbon emissions. But, for the moment, remain unprofitable.

Mark Wakefield, global co-leader of the automotive and industrial practice at AlixPartners and a managing director at the firm, said the “tricky balance” of investing in new technologies while keeping traditional business operations profitable is one of the main drivers for the uptick in auto industry partnerships.

“All these things take this tremendous investment and aren’t going to pay off with a top-end profit next year or the year after or the year after that,” he told CNBC on Friday. “But they are somewhat existential if you want to be in the game 10 years from now. That’s where partnerships come into play.”

A report by AlixPartners earlier this year estimated the industry’s annual spending on autonomous driving and electric vehicles will reach a cumulative $85 billion by 2025 and $225 billion by 2023, respectively.


The capital being spent on electric vehicles alone is roughly equal to the massive amount that all automakers globally combined spend on capital expenditures and research and development in a year, according to the firm.

“To invest in these electric vehicles and CASE (connected, autonomous, shared, electric vehicles) in general, you’re taking one years’ worth of investment out of every five out of the picture,” Wakefield said. “That’s an extraordinary amount to take out and keep the trains running on time of your vehicle programs and traditional business.”

“The joint venture that we are signing today is more than just a collaboration,” LG Chem Vice Chairman and CEO Hak-Cheol Shin said Thursday at the media event. “It marks the beginning of a great journey that will create an emission-free society and transform the global automotive market into an eco-friendly era.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/07/gm-lg-venture-adds-to-multibillion-dollar-partnerships-on-evs-avs.html

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Daimler’s Crisis: Needs Something More Musk
Quote
In an analysis by the acclaimed German news site Spiegel, the author points out Daimler’s crisis and that it needs “something more Musk, please.” The article, written in German, made several interesting points, but the main point is that Daimler is facing a crisis and Tesla is just one part of that crisis. The author of the article believes (and so do I) that perhaps Daimler’s CEO, Ola Källenius, needs to be more like Elon Musk to help save his company.

Elon Musk took the auto world by storm when he announced that the Gigafactory 4’s location is going to be built in Germany, Berlin no less. With this, up to 10,000 jobs could be created in the country. Not even 48 hours later, Källenius made a promise to investors in London to save more than €1.4 billion in costs. Daimler’s crisis starts with his plans to reduce jobs and cut back investments. …

Daimler’s Crisis Summed In 4 Points
1. New Competitors. …
2. Pressure From Shareholders. …
3. Employees. …
4. Fleeing Suppliers. …
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/16/daimlers-crisis-needs-something-more-musk/

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All workers are affected, and the time off isn't paid.
Nissan Closing U.S. Operations For 2 Days In January To Save Money
https://www.motor1.com/news/386140/nissan-closing-us-operations-save-money/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1033 on: December 07, 2019, 05:57:53 PM »
Lucid unveils first images of EV factory as construction starts
https://electrek.co/2019/12/02/lucid-first-image-ev-factory/

——-
Analyst says GM’s Silverado truck is “crummy.”  Now, what about the cybertruck?
Barra: “We’re making trucks the customer wants.”
GM CEO Dodges Tesla Cybertruck Question: Promises Strong GM Pickup
https://insideevs.com/news/386365/mary-barra-gm-electric-pickup-truck/amp/

——
Ford knew Focus, Fiesta models had flawed transmission, but sold them anyway
Ford workers break their silence on faulty transmissions: 'My hands are dirty. I feel horrible'
Quote
The vehicles have saddled the company with an estimated $3 billion in warranty costs plus legal expenses from thousands of lawsuits.

In October, Ford cited that extended warranty relief as a factor denting company profits.
On top of everything, U.S. Department of Justice fraud investigators opened a probe into Ford's conduct involving the transmission dating to 2010. It subpoenaed material earlier this year seeking to learn whether the company knew the transmissions were defective and couldn't be fixed and whether it lied to federal safety regulators.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-workers-break-silence-faulty-145800004.html

—-
This is the fourth safety recall on the 2020 Explorer since the vehicle went on sale in June.
Ford issues two recalls in trucks, SUVs over tailgate issues, fuel leak
https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/ford-issues-two-recalls-trucks-suvs-over-tailgate-issues-fuel-leak

Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 12/6/19, 3:40 PM
Never ends...
#ICErecall has TRIPLED in 2019
autonews.com/regulation-saf…
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1203051589025579008
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1034 on: December 07, 2019, 07:14:43 PM »
There's an Ultra-Rare GM EV1 Abandoned in an Atlanta Parking Garage
Quote
GM spared a tiny handful of EV1s from the crusher—no more than 20—and donated them to museums and schools. GM also bricked the cars' control units to ensure those entities didn't turn around and put their presents back on the road. Nice. Handed an extremely interesting paperweight, engineering students did what they always do: They took it apart. Many of the collegiate EV1s were completely stripped for parts that went into experimental race car builds or design projects. This one was not. ...
https://www.thedrive.com/news/31345/theres-an-ultra-rare-1999-gm-ev1-abandoned-in-an-atlanta-parking-garage
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1035 on: December 08, 2019, 05:22:17 PM »
Toyota executive warns of "electrified armageddon" for auto industry
https://www.axios.com/electric-vehicles-toyota-general-motors-af32fb17-e68d-4478-b830-a3d6359fb58f.html

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How the world's cities will drive electric vehicle adoption
Quote
The U.S. vehicle market could finally be going electric — and faster than you might think.
What's happening: While California and the Trump administration go to war over the state's right to set its own tailpipe emissions standards, large cities are taking steps to curb pollution and corporate giants like Amazon are launching their own green agendas. ...
https://www.axios.com/cities-electric-vehicles-carbon-climate-change-653eecc9-322a-4ea5-bbec-7c7bd8a611b4.html

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The bumpy transition toward electric vehicles
Quote
Daimler announced over $1 billion in job cuts over the next three years on Thursday, citing the costs of moving the company toward a more climate-friendly product line and meeting EU emissions targets.
Why it matters: The German auto behemoth's announcement is a sign of how the wider industry's movement toward electric vehicles and automated technology will be a bumpy ride.
   •   "Daimler has been burning through cash in the past few months as it grapples with the cost of electrification," the Financial Times notes.
   •   The company has various climate and EV goals, such as having plug-ins and full electrics comprising over 50% of Mercedes-Benz car sales by 2030.
The big picture: It also comes amid sluggish global auto sales. The company, at an investor presentation Thursday, cited "headwinds" from trade disputes and "overall economic uncertainty."
What they're saying: CEO Ola Källenius said that the company's metamorphosis will have a "negative impact" on earnings in 2020 and 2021.
   •   "The expenditure needed to achieve the CO2 targets require comprehensive measures to increase efficiency in all areas of our company. This also includes streamlining our processes and structures," he said in a statement.
Quick take: U.S. automakers are hardly immune from the climate and EV-related forces that are acting on Daimler — pressures that would grow stronger if a Democrat wins the White House.
   •   As Axios' Joann Muller pointed out during the now-ended strike at General Motors, that dispute was in part a sign of how automakers' traditional business models will have to change.
https://www.axios.com/electric-vehicles-big-auto-daimler-job-cuts-63999477-52ca-4854-b1fc-0f328a2fa9ed.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1036 on: December 08, 2019, 07:53:05 PM »
Yes, it had a safety driver.  (And in heavy traffic, it needed one.)

We tried out a self-driving robotaxi in China – it was a very ‘considerate’ ride
https://www.scmp.com/tech/start-ups/article/3040896/we-tried-out-self-driving-robotaxi-china-it-was-very-considerate
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1037 on: December 09, 2019, 03:03:47 PM »
U.K.

Rise of SUVs 'makes mockery' of electric car push
Quote
The "immense" rise in sales of high-emission sports utility vehicles means they now outsell electric cars in the UK by 37 to one, research has found.

As a result, overall exhaust emissions from new cars have been increasing, not declining, for the past three years, says the UK Energy Research Centre.

SUV sales are jeopardising the UK transport sector's ability to meet EU emissions targets, it said. Prof Jillian Anable of the UKERC said this made "a mockery" of UK policy. "Effectively, we have been sleepwalking into the issue," she said.

"The decarbonisation of the passenger car market can no longer rely on a distant target to stop the sales of conventional engines. We must start to phase out the most polluting vehicles immediately. It is time to enact a strong set of regulations to transform the entire car market towards ultra-low carbon, rather than focusing solely on the uptake of electric vehicles." ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50713616
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1038 on: December 09, 2019, 03:06:23 PM »
Time to slap on some tax, too bad the island is voting over brexit again.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1039 on: December 09, 2019, 06:11:13 PM »
A non-progressive tax will disproportionally hurt the ones who are the least rich. We must stop unfair systems and be equals again.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1040 on: December 09, 2019, 06:13:54 PM »
... ask your local socialist for solutions.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1041 on: December 09, 2019, 10:58:28 PM »
No, ask Jeremy Corbyn, he'll tell you he is going to take from the rich to build his folly of a state system then he will punish everyone.  Those with the least social mobility will get creamed.  All over again.

The last time the UK had that sort of government we had 32% income tax as a base, almost everyone paying income tax and loans from the IMF to keep the country they bankrupted afloat.

Odd that I am not in favour of these "beneficial" taxes.

Fines though, on the EU scale currently being seen.. Working.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1042 on: December 10, 2019, 08:14:47 PM »
Germany's BASF €500 Million Cathode Factory In Brandenburg To Boost European Electric Battery Production
Quote
German-based chemical company BASF has reportedly planned to build a cathode factory to the tune of €500 million in the state of Brandenburg, Germany, that will cater to materials for the battery production of electric cars. The existing BASF plant in Schwarzheide, Brandenburg, accommodates 1,973 workers, and the new cathode factory is expected to employ close to 8,000 people once set up.

That said, there has not been a formal announcement from BASF in this regard, but the news was indirectly confirmed by Dietmar Woidke, the prime minister of Brandenburg. This is a huge boost to the electric vehicle plans of Germany, where automakers have relied on conventional vehicle production for the better part of a century.

The BASF plans for the cathode factory come in the wake of Tesla Inc's Elon Musk announcing a Gigafactory at Brandenburg in November. Tesla's first production centre in Europe also would be a huge benefit for Germany, as it suffers from a dip in foreign trade brought about by a stumbling auto industry that is shedding jobs in the thousands.

Meanwhile, the European Commission (EC) approved €3.2 billion in state aid on Dec. 9 that will be injected into the research and development of battery technology, with projects selected across Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden. The EC expects this funding to vitalize the electric vehicle segment and bring in an added €5 billion in investment from private entities.

"Battery production in Europe is of strategic interest for our economy and society because of its potential in terms of clean mobility and energy, job creation, sustainability and competitiveness," said Margrethe Vestager, the executive vice president of EC's Europe Fit for the Digital Age. "The approved aid will ensure that this important project can go ahead without unduly distorting competition."


In its statement, BASF mentioned that it intended to set up a cathode factory in Germany, which will work along with BASF's Finnish factory to yield batteries for the production of 300,000 electric cars annually.  Brandenburg is a preferred destination for setting up new factories as the region has a lot of available workforce and because the average wages in the state are considerably lower compared to its West German counterparts. That apart, the inception of a Gigafactory in the same state will, in all likelihood, lead BASF to strike a partnership with Tesla to supply its cars with their much-needed batteries.
...
That apart, increasing battery production in Europe at-large is a priority for the EC, as it fully understands the massive gulf that exists between Asian and European battery production. Asia accounts for 80% of the world's battery production, while Europe accounts for a meager 3%. The EC expects the €3.2 billion grant to push the continent to greater prominence over the next decade.
https://www.benzinga.com/node/14962719
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1044 on: December 10, 2019, 09:50:39 PM »
Opel will have battery cell production in Kaiserslautern (Palatinate/Germany).

Interesting.  Because they are owned by PSA we have to wonder whether that will feed Peugeot Citroen EV models or if it will complement factories in France or become a competitor which loses out???
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1045 on: December 10, 2019, 10:10:10 PM »
Opel will have battery cell production in Kaiserslautern (Palatinate/Germany).

Interesting.  Because they are owned by PSA we have to wonder whether that will feed Peugeot Citroen EV models or if it will complement factories in France or become a competitor which loses out???

Battery hunger in the industry is such that, however many batteries they make, there will be plenty of other customers eager to snatch them up if they can’t use them internally.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1046 on: December 11, 2019, 04:26:08 PM »
Asked to choose from a list of electric pickup trucks…
Unsurprisingly, the owners of Ford and GM ICE trucks would simply pick an e-truck from their favored brand.  People choosing Rivian or Tesla tended to be non-truck owners, and based their decision on styling, features and performance.

Tesla Cybertruck comes in dead last against GM, Ford and Rivian in consumer survey
Quote
In a way, these results show that buyers who are considering the Tesla Cybertruck have preferences that do not necessarily mirror that of usual pickup customers. A part of this discrepancy may be due to a notable difference among respondents who have owned a truck and those that have never owned a pickup before. Respondents who have owned pickups before seemed the most averse to the Cybertruck, with 35% choosing GM’s electric truck as their top choice, 28% choosing the F-150 Electric, 23% opting for the Rivian R1T, and only 14% selecting the Cybertruck. Among respondents who were non-truck owners, the results were flipped, with the Cybertruck being most popular with 25.8% of respondents’ vote, the Rivian R1T getting 24.8%, and the two EV trucks from Ford and GM receiving 24.7% each.

Chase Disher, an analyst at Autolist.com, explained that the results of its survey are actually favorable for all the electric pickups and their respective makers. It shows that the veteran automakers can find a loyal customer base for their all-electric trucks, and it also reveals that an entirely new pickup market could be opened, pushed by vehicles like the Cybertruck. “Frankly, these results are good for all four brands. It shows that Ford and GM can leverage their considerable — and existing — truck followings to boost interest in their EV models. Meanwhile, it shows that Tesla and Rivian could be poised to grab a meaningful share of a crucial new growth segment,” he said.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-vs-gm-vs-ford-f150-ev-vs-rivian-r1t-consumer-survey-results/
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1047 on: December 11, 2019, 04:32:02 PM »
It only lasted six minutes.  But they did it to make a point.

Tesla and other EVs block gas station in protest against charging station Icing
Quote
Tesla vehicles and a few other electric vehicles blocked a gas station in Croatia in a protest organized by the local Tesla Owners Club against the lack of action to prevent EV charging stations being blocked by parked gas-powered cars, also known as Icing.

Icing is what the EV community calls an internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle blocking a charging station for electric vehicles.


Sometimes drivers do it because they don’t pay attention, don’t care, or they don’t think it’s really important, even though it’s the equivalent of an electric vehicle parking at a gas station pump. At times, they even do it on purpose to annoy EV owners because they see them as the enemy for some reason.

We previously reported on pickup truck owners getting together to block Tesla Supercharger stations in the US.
In certain jurisdictions, they are starting to act on the Icing issue and give tickets for people who park at charging stations without plugging in.

In Germany, they will tow your car if it’s blocking a charging station. Last month, we reported on the police lifting a pickup truck off the ground with a crane to remove it from a charging station.

But in other places, they haven’t adopted regulations to prevent the misuse of the charging stations just yet.

In Croatia, the local Tesla Owners Club took matters into their own hands and organized a protest involving blocking a gas station with electric vehicles. ...
https://electrek.co/2019/12/11/tesla-electric-cars-block-gas-station-protest/
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1048 on: December 11, 2019, 05:29:19 PM »
Quote
Assuming they had similar specs and you had to pick one
What a weird way to ask the question. The issue is these all-electric pickup trucks don't have similar specs, nor similar prices, so what are the answers even supposed to mean?
So, assume the Rivian has a 6.5' bed? And a starting price of $39k? Rather than 4.5' and $69k.
Assume the unknown Ford and GM pickups will have the same features and pricing of the Cybertruck?
If I were answering this survey myself I wouldn't know how to answer. IMHO the results are almost useless.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1049 on: December 11, 2019, 07:30:40 PM »
Quote
Assuming they had similar specs and you had to pick one
What a weird way to ask the question. The issue is these all-electric pickup trucks don't have similar specs, nor similar prices, so what are the answers even supposed to mean?
So, assume the Rivian has a 6.5' bed? And a starting price of $39k? Rather than 4.5' and $69k.
Assume the unknown Ford and GM pickups will have the same features and pricing of the Cybertruck?
If I were answering this survey myself I wouldn't know how to answer. IMHO the results are almost useless.
If the specs are the same I think I will go for the one in delicate pink, pale green trim and a turquoise roof.
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