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Iain

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2250 on: February 25, 2021, 02:40:11 PM »
SparkCharge - I get it, they drop off portable battery modules, leave them to charge your car then pick up the "empties"

https://www.sparkcharge.io/roadie

Anyone remember having milk delivered in the morning?

Presumably the cost is electricity + cycle cost of the SC batteries + Operator's time + profit

Neat idea though
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vox_mundi

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2251 on: February 25, 2021, 10:52:05 PM »
Driverless Bus Hits Streets of Malaga In Southern Spain
https://www.irizar-emobility.com/proyectos/?lang=en
https://techxplore.com/news/2021-02-driverless-bus-streets-malaga-southern.html



A new driverless electric bus has begun operating in the southern Spanish city of Malaga, in a project presented as a first in Europe.

The bus, which began running on Saturday, is equipped with sensors and cameras and links Malaga's port to the city centre on an eight-kilometre (five-mile) loop it does six times a day.

"The bus knows at all times where it is and what is around it," said Rafael Durban Carmona, who heads the southern division of Spanish transport company Avanza that leads the public-private consortium behind the project.

It can "interact with traffic lights," which are also equipped with sensors that alert the bus when they turn red, he told AFP.

The bus uses artificial intelligence to improve its "decisions" based on data recorded along the route.

The 12-metre (39-foot) vehicle, which looks like any other bus, can carry 60 passengers and was developed by Spanish firm Irizar.

Other driverless pilot projects already exist in Europe, but none of them involves a regular-size urban bus that runs on a normal street with other vehicles.

Despite the advanced technology, there is a driver at the wheel to take control if necessary since Spanish law does not currently allow vehicles to operate without a driver.

"We put it in automatic mode and it runs completely autonomously," explains Cristobal Maldonado, the driver.

AUTODRIVE is a European Commission funded programme involving a consortium of more than 40 companies from the automotive world. AutoDrive brings together leading companies, suppliers, manufacturers and research centres from the European semiconductor industry to create a pan-European ecosystem with the critical mass needed to create standards and provide components and sub-systems for driverless vehicles.The results of AutoDrive will significantly contribute to safer and more efficient mobility.

Last month, Singapore launched a self-driving bus trial with passengers booking through an app and the bus taking them around Singapore's Science Park, a high-tech business hub, during off-peak hours.

---------------------------------------

Fast and intelligent vehicle charging infrastructure
https://www.irizar-emobility.com/proyectos/?lang=en

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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2252 on: February 26, 2021, 11:58:44 AM »
Not particularly wanting to dampen enthusiasm.  But considering current self driving tech and what it aims to deliver the following.

on an eight-kilometre (five-mile) loop it does six times a day.

It can "interact with traffic lights," which are also equipped with sensors that alert the bus when they turn red, he told AFP.

We are talking about a priority vehicle for which other road users should give way, driving a fixed, mapped, geofenced, 5 mile loop, which cannot even work out if traffic lights have turned red or not unless the traffic lights actually tell the AI.

Whilst I applaud anyone trying to advance EV self drive, in this instance I believe that AI stands for Artificial Idiot and should not be held up as progress.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2253 on: February 28, 2021, 08:36:04 PM »
CleanTechnica, Feb 25
Attracting & Retaining Residents With EV Charging At Apartments, Condos, Etc. — Check Out The Webinar Recording
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/25/ev-charging-webinar-success-check-out-the-recorded-session/

—-
Quote
Whole Mars Catalog (@WholeMarsBlog) 2/26/21, 6:42 AM
“Average emissions from new cars in Britain fell 13% from 2011 through 2016, then increased 6% through 2019, the National Audit Office said in a report Friday” — Bloomberg

“Registrations of battery-electric cars in the UK soared 186% last year, while plug-in hybrids surged 91%. The two segments combined made up about a 10th of deliveries, up from a 30th in 2019” — Bloomberg
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1365266002703908871

—-
Quote
WMC: the mustang mach e seems more successful in terms of customer adoption than any other EV that’s gone to market in America
< It’s the first non-Tesla EV that’s even remotely cool. Taycan doesn’t count because you look like an idiot driving one because of how bad of a value it is.
WMC: True
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1365563677764505602

—-
General Motors says worst of global chip shortage may be behind it
Quote
The forecasts factored in the potential impact of the chip shortage, including a hit of $1.5 billion to $2.5 billion to its free cash flow. That impact remains as GM combats the situation and even partially builds some high-demand vehicles.

“We feel confident that we’re working through this issue and that we’ll be able to return to normal as soon as the back half of this year ... and a high degree of confidence that this isn’t going to be an issue for us going forward,” Jacobson said.

Due to the shortage, GM temporarily closed car and crossover plants in Kansas, Canada and Mexico through mid-March. The automaker has said it is prioritizing production of its “most in-demand products – including full-size trucks and SUVs and Corvettes,” which also happen to be its most-profitable vehicles as well. …
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/24/gm-says-worst-of-global-chip-shortage-may-be-behind-it.html

—-
Ford's European Production Halt to Have a Large Impact
How concerned should investors be about the five-week production shutdown in Saarlouis, Germany?
Quote
If you've been keeping an eye on the global automotive industry, you're no stranger to the ripple effects caused by a shortage in semiconductors. The need for these chips has boomed in recent years, coinciding with an explosion in automotive technology, driveline components, and interior infotainment systems. The chip shortage is about to hit Ford Motor Company's (NYSE:F) European operations in a big way.

More specifically, the chip shortage will force Ford's factory in Saarlouis, Germany to halt production for five weeks. That factory builds Ford's Focus compact car, which is a serious part of the company's business operations in Europe. In fact, through the first three quarters of 2020 the Focus was the automaker's top-selling vehicle in Europe and accounted for 18% of its total Euro 20 sales.

The bad news isn't limited to Ford's Saarlouis, Germany plant, either. The chip shortage caused minor disruption to Ford's Cologne, Germany plant, which produces another highly important vehicle, the Fiesta. Ford's Kuga (Escape) crossover, Mondeo (Fusion), and Galaxy minivan also felt some production impacts. Overall, the chip shortage will cause downtime and lost production; Stuart Rowley, Ford's regional boss, told Automotive News Europe "That is a huge impact on our operations".

Analysts expect the global production shortfall across the automotive industry during the first half of the year could reach 1 million units. On the bright side, while this will certainly negatively impact many automakers' results during the first quarter, the issue should subside before or early in the second quarter. Most of the lost production should be recovered during the second half of the year.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/02/26/fords-european-production-halt-to-have-a-large-imp/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2254 on: March 02, 2021, 05:02:13 PM »
—- Study
Plug-in hybrid cars use far more fuel than manufacturers claim, “Which?” research finds
The study found that owners of dual power cars could be paying hundreds of more a year in fuel costs, casting doubt over their green credentials
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/plug-in-hydbrid-cars-fuel-consumption-manufacturer-claim-which-research-893564

—- Daimler
Quote
“We will purchase external credits at short notice in order to close consumption gaps in the fleet's achievement of the target”  — Daimler

“This year Daimler expects the number of Mercedes and Smart EVs it will sell as a percentage of its overall global total to reach about 13 percent, up from 7.4 percent in 2020, thanks to the launch of new battery-powered models such as the EQA and EQB compact EVs”
— Auto News

Daimler has failed to meet corporate average fuel economy requirements in the United States and China.
It will purchase regulatory credits from other automakers to comply with the law and minimize fines.
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1366713869712859142

   Automotive News
   Mercedes misses fuel economy targets in U.S., China
   dlvr.it/RtnqDC


—- Nio says global chip shortage will hit its electric car production
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/02/chinese-tesla-rival-nio-chip-shortage-will-hit-electric-car-production.html


—- What do you think?
WMC: I disagree with including Wuling HuangGong MiniEV in sales rankings
With no air bags, two doors, and a $4200 price tag it is closer to a bike than what we think of as a normal 4 door car

Tesla Model 3, Model Y grab two of top three global EV sales spots
March 1, 2021
Quote
The Tesla Model 3 and Model Y grabbed second and third place in the global EV sales figures for January, establishing their place as a couple of the most successful electric cars in the global market.

The Model 3 managed to grab second place, selling 21,589 units throughout the world in January 2021, with the Model Y coming in third with 9,597 units sold. The most popular EV in the world was the Wuling HongGuang Mini EV, a General Motors, SAIC, and Wuling project car that is highly affordable but not necessarily efficient in range (110 miles per charge) and has a low top speed of only 62 MPH. …
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-model-y-sales-january-2021/
⬇️ Table below.

—- Another study
Fossil fuel cars make ‘hundreds of times’ more waste than electric cars
The report pointed to a “double standard” used when assessing the relative merits of electric and fossil fuel vehicles, which takes the use of oil for granted.
Quote
… The campaign group said battery electric vehicles were superior to their petrol and diesel counterparts across raw material demand, energy efficiency or cost – as well as eliminating exhaust emissions of carbon dioxide and other harmful gases.

The accelerating move to electric vehicles will entail environmental costs. Higher battery production will require more mining of minerals such as lithium, cobalt and nickel.

“When it comes to raw materials there is simply no comparison,” said Lucien Mathieu, a transport analyst at T&E and an author of the report. “Over its lifetime, an average fossil-fuel car burns the equivalent of a stack of oil barrels 25 storeys high. If you take into account the recycling of battery materials, only around 30kg of metals would be lost – roughly the size of a football.”

T&E calculations suggest that battery electric cars will use 58% less energy than a petrol car over its lifetime and emit 64% less carbon dioxide. Emissions associated with electric cars are mainly produced in the energy-intensive manufacturing of batteries, while the vast majority of emissions associated with internal combustion engine cars come from its use. … 
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/01/fossil-fuel-cars-make-hundreds-of-times-more-waste-than-electric-cars
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2255 on: March 02, 2021, 06:26:52 PM »
The Feb 25 Nikola earnings call :o

“Nikola said Thursday it now expects to deliver 100 battery-electric Tre semis to customers this year, down from a previous target of 600. It blamed the global pandemic and supply-chain issues for the drop in planned production volumes” — Bloomberg
Quote
CEO said they lower guidance of 2021 delivery to 100 vehicles. 5 minutes later, CFO said to expect "50 to 100". Then CEO said order book not confirmed. Then said, expected delivery Q4. Meanwhile, won’t have prototypes in Q2. …
https://twitter.com/david_streever/status/1365301583555289092

Bloomberg: Nikola Lowers Debut Electric Truck Production Volume Targets
https://t.co/znZihAFVQZ

   —-
Quote
$NKLA Tre BEV truck with a 300 mile range will be priced at $300k according to their FY 2021 Outlook. According to CEO Mark Russell, no committed orders yet.
https://twitter.com/meckimac/status/1365062064771899399
Image at link: Nikola 2021 outlook timeline

< Nikola Tre costs twice as much as a Tesla Semi >
Tesla semi truck with 300 mile range is $150k, $180k version has 500 mile range.

   —-
Quote
Nikola says they are considering using "blue Hydrogen" a.k.a. reformed natural gas.
That's literally a fossil fuel at that point! What a SCAM
$NKLA $NKLAQ #NikolaGate
https://twitter.com/nikola_truth/status/1365062205364912128

   —-
Per their press release, Nikola has finally discontinued their Powersports line.  But their website still featured them, along with the Badger pickup truck (announced as dropped months ago), right up until the earnings call.
https://twitter.com/insidernikola/status/1365051078287314944

   —-
Quote
Gary Black (@garyblack00) 2/26/21, 8:52 AM
Amazing that none of the analysts on yesterday’s $NKLA earnings call asked about the 10K disclosure that outside counsel found that nine comments by founder and former Chairman Trevor Milton from July 2016 were “inaccurate in whole or in part, when made,” which is a likely precursor to a SEC securities fraud charge against the company. This admission, plus the CFO suggesting to investors on the call that a capital raise was likely, are both negatives for $NKLA stock. …
https://twitter.com/garyblack00/status/1365298811149701127

“Nikola has extended $8.1 million to cover legal fees for Milton based on an indemnification agreement, it said in the filing”
— Bloomberg
Nikola admits to making “inaccurate” statements under disgraced founder
Example:  At a 2016 press event, Milton took to the stage to unveil a prototype of the company's first truck, dubbed the Nikola One. During the event, Milton claimed that the truck "fully functions." In reality, Nikola never got the truck to move under its own power.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/nikola-admits-to-making-inaccurate-statements-under-disgraced-founder/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2256 on: March 02, 2021, 08:22:12 PM »
Autonomous bits
—- Tesla FSD beta
Quote
Kim Paquette (@kimpaquette) 2/25/21, 8:00 PM
My car just drove me 85 miles from the central parking garage at Boston Logan through the spaghetti leaving the airport to nightmare rush hour, tunnels, interchanges, bridges, and to my house without a single intervention. :o #NOAP #FSDBeta #tesla #model3
https://twitter.com/kimpaquette/status/1365104513376522241
Kim Paquette:  Literally. I only initiated a lane change when someone was tailgating me.

Quote
Tesla Owners Of Silicon Valley:
#FSDBeta handles mountainous road like a champ
➡️ https://twitter.com/teslaownerssv/status/1365753649763291139
2 min vid. Curvy road on side of mountain, with no guardrails

—- Hardware
Quote
comma (@comma_ai) 2/22/21, 5:51 PM
Do humans have spinning lasers on their heads? No.
Do humans drive cars? Yes.
Lidar's a scam.
https://twitter.com/comma_ai/status/1363984736394174466

—- When the Human Driver fails
Technology developed for aviation, like anti-lock brakes. often trickles down to cars and trucks.
Two Pilots Lost Consciousness While Flying. Their F-16s Saved Them.
Quote
This software is a guardian angel for pilots who pass out or become disoriented.
   •   Last year, a new autopilot system saved the lives of two F-16 pilots in two separate incidents.
   •   Auto GCAS is designed to take over when pilots pass out in the cockpit or become disoriented.
   •   The software can save a pilot and an aircraft plunging toward the ground, steering the plane to safety.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a35600340/f-16-pilots-passed-out-saved-by-auto-gcas-software/

Traffic backed up for 1 hour after driver falls asleep at the wheel and hits the center divider on the freeway
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1364257951528067072
Level 5 autonomy can eliminate such incidents, by taking over when a driver becomes impaired.

Elon Musk says FSD (beta) will be available by subscription (by month) in Q2, which would allow purchase for use on occasional long trips.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1366514764868775936
But imagine, when FSD is certified, if Tesla offered it on a per-use basis.  Like an instant Uber:  Hey car, I’m drunk; take me home.

—- Waymo:  Geo-fenced in Arizona
No long trips possible. Actually, not even to metro Phoenix.
➡️ https://twitter.com/thechriswessel/status/1365648402877325320

—- The long and winding road
Quote
The real world can be crazy. But that’s ok as long as FSD knows what it doesn’t know
If it sees something really out there, it‘ll route away from it or let the human take control
Gathering data on these weird long tail scenarios is like finding a needle in a haystack
➡️ https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1365634480803774465
Karpathy clip at the link. ⬇️ Below:  Edge cases. The roundabout is in Swindon, UK
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2257 on: March 03, 2021, 06:13:07 PM »
Quote
Sono Motors:
Solar charging.

< Per Google:
"The solar cells integrated into the body of the Sion can add up to 245 km (112 km on average) of driving range per week through solar energy to the car's battery."
➡️ https://twitter.com/sonomotors/status/1367127626809139204
1-min Video: charging while driving!
 
—- U.S.: seasonal gasoline price increases underway
“By law, summer blend gas must arrive in Southern California counties by April 1 to meet air quality standards, bringing with it increased prices. The Auto Club said drivers might have to wait until May for prices to start stabilizing” — CBS
Have You Noticed Higher Gas Prices Lately? You’re Not Alone – CBS Los Angeles
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/03/01/southern-california-high-gas-prices-summer-blend/amp/
 
—-
More and more automakers are pledging to be all-EV in 2030 —
How many people will be willing to buy ICE cars in 2028 & 2029?
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vox_mundi

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2258 on: March 04, 2021, 02:37:47 PM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2259 on: March 04, 2021, 02:53:37 PM »
GM Looking to Build 2nd US Battery Factory, Tennessee Likely
https://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/business/gm-looking-to-build-2nd-us-battery-factory-tennessee-likely/amp/

DETROIT (AP) — General Motors says it’s looking for a site to build a second U.S. battery factory with joint venture partner LG Chem of Korea.

The companies hope to have a decision on a site in the first half of the year, spokesman Dan Flores said Thursday.

Flores would not say where the company is looking, but it’s likely to be near GM’s Spring Hill, Tennessee, factory complex, which is one of three sites the company has designated to build electric vehicles.

A joint venture between GM and LG Chem currently is building a $2 billion battery factory in Lordstown, Ohio, near Cleveland, that will employ about 1,000 people. The site is fairly close to GM’s two other designated electric vehicle plants, one in Detroit and the other north of the city in Orion Township, Michigan.

GM is likely to need far more battery capacity if it’s able to deliver on a goal of converting all of its new passenger vehicles from internal combustion engines to electricity by 2035.

LG Chem now has a battery cell plant in Holland, Michigan, that supplies power to the Chevrolet Bolt hatchback and the new Bolt electric SUV.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2260 on: March 04, 2021, 05:48:00 PM »
—- Waymo vs. Tesla.  Chandler, Arizona
Quote
Whole Mars Catalog (@WholeMarsBlog) 3/3/21, 3:22 AM
trying do do an FSD waymo same route comparison, but there are so many places waymo won’t go!
hard to find something…
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1367027660858159106

WMC: amazing how FSD brought us here from a different state, but waymo can’t take us to costco 5 minutes away because it’s outside the geofence
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1367032043075375107

WMC: so funny when it just blew past us at full speed but couldn’t stop or enter the plaza to the left to pick us up
< It will only turn left at protected intersections so it goes alllll the way down until there is one
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1367059459428683780

WMC:
A $35,000 Tesla can do the same thing as a $400,000 Waymo.
No specialized hardware. No lasers. Just a normal production car.
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1367081610240135171
< Technically $45k when you add FSD, but yeah.
> are those Pacifica minivans they use PHEV?
WMC: yes
<> Does each one of those reindeers seriously cost $400k ??
Whole Mars Catalog:  ya

⬇️ Image below: Waymo’s route.

Tesla FSD vs Waymo: how do they compare driving to the same destination? [with Video]
March 3, 2021
Quote
Sometimes referred to as the industry leader, much has been said about Waymo’s autonomous driving capabilities compared to Tesla’s Full Self-Driving (FSD) beta.

Waymo currently operates its driverless taxi’s in a limited area in Arizona. Tesla’s FSD beta can travel on any road, but it is limited to only about 1,000 testers, making comparisons difficult.

That’s where FSD beta tester @WholeMarsBlog comes in, who ventured to Arizona to compare the two self-driving vehicles.

Two tests were conducted, both with interesting results. …
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-fsd-vs-waymo-how-do-they-compare-driving-to-the-same-destination-video/

—-
Law Enforcement Protocol for Autonomous Vehicles (Arizona)
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1367462846007701507
At the link:  Two long pages of text. One part is about informing first responders how to tell if the vehicle is in autonomous mode, and prepare it for towing.
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2261 on: March 04, 2021, 07:28:54 PM »
Now that's just Evil.  Waymo had it all stitched up and could say whatever they wanted.  Now people get to see what the real difference is in sophistication and capabilities.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2262 on: March 05, 2021, 07:52:19 PM »
Honda introduces:  Traffic Jam Pilot
• An autonomous mode for congested traffic on an expressway when travelling slower than 50 kilometers per hour (31mph).
• Driver must be ready to take over at any time
• Honda is making it available in only 100 luxury Legend sedans (Waymo has 600), for lease only, for $102,000.

The level 3 technology "is what will be needed in the future for sure," said Sugimoto. He said it would eventually be distributed "hopefully in a decade or two" for one of Honda's top-selling models.

Honda launches world's first level 3 self-driving car
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Honda-launches-world-s-first-level-3-self-driving-car
 
::) I expect this capability will be commonplace in new cars in five years or less.  Honda might not last that long.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2263 on: March 07, 2021, 04:49:27 PM »
It’s “when” other places will do this, not “will they.”

California City Bans New Gas Stations—Will Others Follow?
Mar 5, 2021
Quote
In its commitment to becoming carbon neutral by 2030, the city of Petaluma, California in Sonoma County, approximately 39 miles north of San Francisco, has approved a ban on the new construction of gas stations. The first city in the United States to prohibit the expansion of filling stations, specifically those associated with large retail chains, is also banning the addition of new pumps at existing ones.
...
The city's rigorous efforts toward minimizing fossil fuel dependency aim to make it easy for current fuel stations to add electric vehicle chargers. … 
https://www.motortrend.com/news/gas-station-ban-us-petaluma-california/
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kassy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2264 on: March 07, 2021, 05:06:59 PM »
So how much decades for Houston.  ;)

ETA: In the Netherlands removing the infrastructure for old Gas stations so quite costly. The upside is that stations that are less relevant are being changed to electric charging points or if they need less pumps they can add electric chargers.
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NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2265 on: March 07, 2021, 09:42:58 PM »
Looks like VW are going to push out a supermini EV.  But only after 2025.

Quote
Volkswagen to launch entry-level ID electric car after 2025

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-launch-entry-level-id-electric-car-after-2025

A very big road map there.  It won't worry Tesla but if I were a Japanese car CEO I'd be living on antacids.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2266 on: March 08, 2021, 12:39:12 AM »
—- Super Cruise
The $106k, 2021 Cadillac Escalade with a SuperCruise system, now with Auto Lane Change for the first time on specially pre-mapped highways. 
Changes lanes after manual turn signal activation — but doesn’t turn off the blinker afterward. ;D Disengages around nearby trucks, curves, and exit ramps.

Testing hands free driving and automatic lane change on the 2021 Cadillac Escalade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV0t9H4BUVQ&feature=youtu.be
4:30 min. vid. 

—- Chevy Bolt
Chevy Cuts Price Of Bolt EV By $11,000
The demand for the car has been brisk. Nevertheless, it is being offered at a discount of over $11,000 and that is 27% off the MSRP.
https://247wallst.com/autos/2021/03/07/chevy-cuts-price-of-bolt-ev-by-11000/

—- Volvo
Volvo is going to make you buy a maintenance package, insurance, tires and more from them with every new EV sold
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1366805615587201025

—- ICE ghosts in an EV system
Quote
if you see a check engine light, they blew it
if your EV prompts you to get an oil change, they blew it
it the navigation system has a feature to list the nearest gas stations
say it with me now
they blew it!
~ “but it’s just a check engine light, why does it matter”
Because it shows they didn’t develop a great EV from the ground up. They tried to reuse what they already had.
And trying to put lipstick on your gas car lineup and call it an EV is how you make a bad product
~ Tesla made this mistake when they tried to convert a lotus elise ii an electric roadster they realized it just wasn’t right. so they created the skateboard and that changed everything. 
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1365637122200268802

—- U.S. Infrastructure Bill
Quote
it’s looking like the EV tax credit extension will be part of the Democrats’ “Infrastructure Bill”, which will be the priority right after the stimulus bill is passed.
+ “As of 2020, there were 26,000 EV charging stations in the U.S. with 84,000 plugs, according to The Department of Energy. In comparison, the U.S. has 168,000 gasoline stations” — Bloomberg
+ Electrify America has about 3,500 chargers.
Now, a new multi-trillion dollar infrastructure bill from the federal government promised to add another 500,000 chargers.
We’re talking a *massive* increase. 
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1363813007575322626

—- Xpeng P7
The Xpeng P7 Achieves 20,000 Sales Quicker Than Any Other Vehicle From A Chinese EV Startup
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/05/the-xpeng-p7-achieves-20000-sales-quicker-than-any-other-vehicle-from-chinese-ev-startup/
 
But:
Quote
天天越野:
At present, in some second-hand trading websites, we see a large number of P7 on sale at a discount of 30%. The delivery figures of Xiaopeng make people suspicious
~ These are all new cars that have not been used, and according to the seller's advertising documents, the down payment is 0
https://twitter.com/tiantianyueye/status/1368088718318313475
[Screencaps at the link.]
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2268 on: March 15, 2021, 08:20:00 PM »
VOLKSWAGEN GROUP POWER DAY LIVESTREAM
➡️youtu.be/qduJ1-tYH5g
Quote
Volkswagen Group (@VWGroup) 3/15/21, 8:04 AM
#VWPowerDay | "Let me begin with the obvious: #eMobility has won the race. It is the only solution to reduce mobility emissions fast", says our CEO @Herbert_Diess. 
https://twitter.com/vwgroup/status/1371432054978719745

Quote
  < Only took legacy auto 10 years to figure this out
Whole Mars Catalog:
~ Volkswagen announces bi-directional charging by 2022.
~ Volkswagen announced partnership with BP for EV charging.  Now, your EV charge can help support oil! Innovative!
~ Volkswagen calls ID.4 infotainment “cutting edge”
~ Diess: We plan to operate 6 giga factories in Europe with our partners.  yeah he said gigafactories.
  < They also referred to fast charging as “super charging” but only once or twice....
~ Volkswagen says their next generation EV Platform Artemis will be unveiled in 2024... it will feature cell to pack [*no modules]
~ “the battery cell is tomorrow’s combustion chamber” — Volkswagen.   uhhhh how about today.
 
~ the biggest automaker in the world is taking directions from Tesla and following their lead into the future  
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1371482741129146369

VW lays out aggressive strategy to counter Tesla with its own 'gigafactories' and investments in charging infrastructure
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/vw-lays-out-aggressive-strategy-to-counter-tesla-with-its-own-gigafactories-and-investments-in-charging-infrastructure/ar-BB1eC3VR
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2269 on: March 15, 2021, 11:34:39 PM »
Lordstown Motors Faked Orders for Electric Pickup That’s Years Behind Schedule: Report
https://www.thedrive.com/news/39755/lordstown-motors-faked-orders-for-electric-pickup-thats-years-behind-schedule-report

Hindenburg Research, the short seller whose investigation into Nikola Motors toppled the company's founder and set its stock into a tailspin last fall, now has set its sights on the electric truck startup Lordstown Motors. In an 8,000-plus-word report posted Friday morning, Hindenburg accused the Ohio-based company of pumping fake orders to artificially boost demand for its forthcoming Endurance pickup truck, published quotes from former employees describing Lordstown CEO Steve Burns as a "con man" and collected evidence showing the entire Endurance project is possibly years behind schedule—despite Lordstown's promises that production will begin this fall.

https://hindenburgresearch.com/lordstown/

All along, the Lordstown Endurance pickup—with its promised quad hub motor system, 600 horsepower, 6,000-pound towing capacity and 250-mile range—is what's been drawing in investors, including General Motors. GM pitched in $75 million last August after originally selling its former Chevy Cruze factory to Lordstown's owners for a song. Of course, GM also announced an extensive partnership with Nikola Motors just before Hindenberg did its thing last fall.

Lordstown has publicly stated that it has 100,000 pre-orders for the Endurance pickup, largely attributed to businesses and municipalities that wish to acquire all-electric vehicle fleets. One such interested buyer is a company called E Squared Energy, whose deal with Lordstown is on the books for 14,000 trucks to the tune of $735 million; the report notes that the company appears to be run by two employees out of a "small apartment in Texas," and further highlights other potential customers who supposedly have "no intent" of purchasing Endurance pickups.

"We are not stating these are orders and have never stated that,” Burns said to WSJ. He continued later on, “If a guy signed a piece of paper that said ‘I think I can move x-thousand of them,’ we believe them. But it’s not in blood. It’s a non-binding letter of intent." ...

https://hindenburgresearch.com/lordstown/

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KiwiGriff

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2270 on: March 16, 2021, 05:59:23 AM »
lordstown + wheel motors.
I have been a car nut for decades
You spend thousnds trying to get rid of unsprung weight due to its effects on handling . Sealing and feeding power to wheel motors is going to add both complexity and potential points of failure .
Sticking electric motors into the wheels just seems a stupid idea for highway speeds .
Lordstown plans  is another case where the laws of physics says the technology  is not going to work as well as much more logical alternatives  .
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2271 on: March 16, 2021, 07:41:02 AM »
Patty Murry (D) senator just sponsored bill to fund purchasing electric for 10% of all school buses for next 10 years. Bill wording funds the difference in purchase price between electric and diesel. All moneys set aside would be available until used. Practically this will probably be sufficient to fund the difference until electric school buses are as cheap as diesel and widespread enough that all districts switch to electric. Money provides for charging infrastructure and gives priority to poorest school districts if money is insufficient to fill all requests.
School buses are the ideal electric vehicle. Most school buses travel less than 40 miles a day and return to the yard during the middle of the school day. Allowing them to benefit from cheap solar and or middle of the night charging. They stop, start and idle frequently making huge efficiency gains from electric possible. The also frequently idle near children making pollution an issue.   

NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2272 on: March 16, 2021, 08:33:54 AM »
VW lays out aggressive strategy to counter Tesla with its own 'gigafactories' and investments in charging infrastructure

60% of the EU Covid recovery funds are targeted at green projects.  With a heavy slant on enabling electric mobility.  Which means VW can expect very large handouts (just as Tesla has seen), from the EU funds, in order to do these things.

Not saying it is bad for VW to do it, more that they didn't follow Tesla on these things until it was being supported by EU funds.  Something Tesla has never had until now.

It somewhat lessens the "Vision" of VW and puts them much more in the mode of snout in the handouts trough.

If that is what it takes and I have been a strong proponent of this since the days of Obama, then so be it.   By the time the handouts are over the transition will be so far down the road that nothing will stop it.

That is a good thing.

I just hate companies like VW taking the money and making out like they are blazing a trail like Tesla, lessening what Tesla has achieved.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2273 on: March 16, 2021, 03:22:01 PM »
—- VW is promising how many EVs? The story evolves:

Financial Times:  VW aims to sell 1m electric cars this year   on.ft.com/3eIVzYp
Quote
< This doesn’t make any sense at all. Their goal from power day was 240Gwh by 2030. You mean they will just go to 1m this year and take another 9 years to go to 3m cars? Average 80kwh per car. I’m calling bullshit.

Tesla Facts:
As usual, Volkswagen includes fraudulent hybrids in these "electric cars" sales figures, and the infomercials the Financial Times is writing for legacy auto (in exchange for advertisement money) are repeating the lies uncritically.

Whole Mars Catalog:
I don’t think so, I think they are promising 1 million pure electric vehicles.
That would be amazing. This is a target to get excited about.
Financial Times are not idiots, they understand the difference between a plug in hybrid and pure BEV.
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1371794787167170562

Quote
Well they better fucking sell 1 million electric vehicles because they just promised us they would
if Tesla has 1 million units of installed capacity BEFOFE Austin and Berlin, why can’t the biggest automaker in the world do it too?
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1371814197789483009

If Volkswagen still can’t even make as many EVs as Tesla, that’s pretty pathetic.
I mean they’re supposed to be the biggest automaker in the world.

Honestly any target less than 1 million EVs would have been kind of a joke for a company the size of Volkswagen claiming to be serious about EVs.
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1371787745073405953


Quote
“Of the 1m electric cars it expects to sell, about half will be battery-only, with the rest plug-in hybrid models, chief executive Herbert Diess told the Financial Times.”
https://twitter.com/milmilebattery/status/1371814324432482306

WMC: Ah, story just got changed… electric or hybrid
LAME Volkswagen! Come ooonnnnnn! booooooooo!!!

Quote
WMC:
Diess is a really smart guy.
He recognized what was happening at Tesla and wants to learn from them.
Granted, their softwate is still shit. But at least they’re recognizing which direction they need to go.
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1371788730923577345
[Images at the link from Diess’ Twitter bio page: “Voltswagen needs to change: From a collection of valuable brands to a digital company that reliably operates millions of mobility devices worldwide.” ]

< I was impressed w/ Diess when he said our software MUST be developed in-house. Too valuable to outsource.
WMC:
Right idea, but can they execute? Can they become one of the best software developers in the world? That is what is required.
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1371789569285267460
< VW will sell way more than 1m cars with shitty software this year ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2274 on: March 16, 2021, 03:36:45 PM »
lordstown + wheel motors.
I have been a car nut for decades
You spend thousnds trying to get rid of unsprung weight due to its effects on handling . Sealing and feeding power to wheel motors is going to add both complexity and potential points of failure .
Sticking electric motors into the wheels just seems a stupid idea for highway speeds .
Lordstown plans  is another case where the laws of physics says the technology  is not going to work as well as much more logical alternatives  .

Good points.  And I have to think that getting four different motors to play nice together, especially as they age differently, must be a software nightmare.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2275 on: March 16, 2021, 07:45:43 PM »
At least VW has finally seen the light. Now it’s time to roll up their sleeves and get to work.

One wonders what are the execs at say, Toyota, smoking.

We are approaching the point where old ICE production capacity is more of a liability than an asset. In fact the stock market already values it as such.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2276 on: March 18, 2021, 05:47:54 PM »
Quote
The UK government has cut grants for electric car buyers, to the horror of the automotive industry as it tries to rapidly shift away from fossil fuels.

The maximum grant for electric cars was reduced to from £3,000 to £2,500 with immediate effect on Thursday. The government also lowered the price cap for cars eligible for the subsidy from £50,000 to £35,000.

Whilst, at the same time freezing fuel duty.

Covod recovery meets clean transportation and clean transportation takes a hit.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/18/uk-slashes-grants-for-electric-car-buyers-while-increasing-petrol-vehicle-support

I can't say I'm surprised really, had Tesla decided to build a factory in the UK this might have been different.  But they didn't and very few EV's are made in the UK.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2277 on: March 18, 2021, 08:25:27 PM »
Did Lordstown Lie? CEO Admits Orders 'Aren't Serious' (wtf?)  
Steven Mark Ryan vid
Quote
In this video I react to comments from Lordstown Motors CEO Steven Burns who, in responding to allegations from short selling research firm Hindenburg Research, tacitly admits the company's 100,000 "pre-orders" or "reservations" are not genuine orders (CEO said "no" when asked if they're genuine orders) and WORSE, insinuates that nobody actually believed they were real orders.

This company is looking more and more like Nikola and Trevor Milton by the day. You've been warned. EV SPACS... buyer beware. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gP3wJvL1xc&feature=youtu.be
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2278 on: March 19, 2021, 04:06:01 PM »
Is it any wonder that Tesla was treated as a scam for so long?  It is so difficult to enter the US vehicle market that only Tesla has managed it in 100 years.

Why the markets believe that, suddenly, lots of companies will make this hurdle, is a mystery.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2279 on: March 19, 2021, 04:14:30 PM »
Three good reasons, and one that trumps them:
Because funding is now readily available.
Because the technology is much more mature.
Because Tesla paved the way and showed how.
And because investors are always gullible for a good story.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2280 on: March 19, 2021, 07:47:25 PM »
True Oren, the way has been shown.  But how many companies would have the focus or the stamina and could the incumbents let them? One Tesla is bad enough for them, two would be an outright disaster.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2281 on: March 19, 2021, 08:52:26 PM »
Three good reasons, and one that trumps them:
Because funding is now readily available.
Because the technology is much more mature.
Because Tesla paved the way and showed how.
And because investors are always gullible for a good story.

- “Analyst” (rated zero stars out of five, ranked 7,172 out of 7,395 on TipRanks) who is a Tesla short seller and had a $TSLA price target of $20 last year, says VW will make more EVs than Tesla this year.  (Because he includes hybrids.)
- Media pushes that clickbait as far as they can.

See:
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1372496169348206599 (and replies)
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2282 on: March 20, 2021, 12:42:25 AM »
Three good reasons, and one that trumps them:
Because funding is now readily available.
Because the technology is much more mature.
Because Tesla paved the way and showed how.
And because investors are always gullible for a good story.
Following a company that shows the way often does not work. Case in point how many people want to buy a $100,000 electric car now that several cheaper ones are available. Would you buy a 200 mile electric car now for that price? Probably not. Tesla sold many more at the premium because at the time you could not get a high quality electric vehicle anywhere else. Tesla got more of their development funded because they were trailblazers everyone else including incumbents have to pay those costs just to enter the market. Much of the funding for other startups was because people assumed (wrongly in most if not all cases) that the startups did the work Tesla did. It is way to late for a new startup and any other existing startup gets bought by a big player or does not survive. Tesla likely will becomes a major auto manufacturer (Despite valuations they are not there yet by number of vehicles). Governments won't let foreign automakers bankrupt their automakers so despite all of Teslas advantages they won't get much bigger than 20% of the global market. Teslas grid batteries led the way but competition there is accelerating much faster than the electric car market. I have not heard of anyone else offering anything like Teslas electricity trader unless I misunderstand it making a similar product does not seem too difficult.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2283 on: March 20, 2021, 07:22:38 AM »
I wonder if this time the increase cost of gasoline might be the game changer for electric cars.

I feel that we arrived at the point where it easier to buy an EV than to drill for oil.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2284 on: March 20, 2021, 11:09:29 AM »
Unfortunately, with elected officials, until EV ownership hits 50% or more, that is an election loser.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2285 on: March 20, 2021, 01:43:18 PM »
Do you know that cartoon :


The same could happen with the EV.

The 50% are reached if Madam has one, even if Mister has a overpowered Pickup Truck. It's all about money, not about AGW.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2286 on: March 20, 2021, 04:27:16 PM »
Small EV are still much more expensive that small ICE cars, they are around 20'000 EUR. The size is ok if the aim is just to go to work to shop and to drive the kids around, but you might not be able to shop with more than one kid in the car. If you have a middle sized dog or want to go shopping with the whole family, 30'000 EUR are required for the car. In both cases, the ICE is about half the price, but I'm sure that prices will come closer quite soon.
20'000 EUR is affordable, it is for sure cheaper than the cars my work colleges are driving.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2287 on: March 20, 2021, 09:48:52 PM »
Electric vehicle prices continue to fall. Another two years and ev prices will be similar to gas vehicles

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2288 on: March 21, 2021, 10:32:59 AM »
Maybe, but the $50 per kw/h is going to be a prerequisite for that and that is going to be a struggle to deliver in 2 years even for Tesla.

The average selling price for the Fiat 500 is, apparently, €20,000 already. So there may be some convergence and Musk may be right that the $25,000 small car is the sweet spot given the advantages in fuel costs and servicing.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2289 on: March 21, 2021, 12:42:04 PM »
Another point is that if we are close to the tipping point like I believe, a new ICE car of today might completely loose its value during the next 5 years, and an EV could keep its, if you change the batteries of course.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2290 on: March 21, 2021, 12:52:35 PM »
Another point is that if we are close to the tipping point like I believe, a new ICE car of today might completely loose its value during the next 5 years, and an EV could keep its, if you change the batteries of course.

GM, Tesla and Chinese battery makers tout million+ mile batteries

Million-Mile Batteries? They’re Coming
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a34620676/million-mile-batteries-theyre-coming/
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2291 on: March 22, 2021, 12:10:52 AM »
Maybe, but the $50 per kw/h is going to be a prerequisite for that and that is going to be a struggle to deliver in 2 years even for Tesla.

The average selling price for the Fiat 500 is, apparently, €20,000 already. So there may be some convergence and Musk may be right that the $25,000 small car is the sweet spot given the advantages in fuel costs and servicing.


Every report I have seen says break even between cost for gas and electric is $100/kwh. Where does $50/kwh come from?

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2292 on: March 22, 2021, 02:09:55 AM »
From a different angle, a 50 kWh battery has ample energy for most cars. With $100/kWh at the pack level, this adds $5000 to the cost of the car, while many other parts and pieces are saved, so the net additional cost is much less. Considering the operational savings in maintenance and energy costs, I honestly can't see this battery price level as a barrier to EV adoption or to parity with gas cars.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2293 on: March 22, 2021, 04:27:45 AM »
I think the difference is between cost to the manufacturer and price to the consumer. Last year a bus maker in china claimed their cost was below 100/kwh at the pack level. Last year estimates for tesla were around $110/kwh. Tesla has said they have put off semi production for lack of batteries. They get a premium for their car but they could drop model 3 prices quite a bit and still make a profit. If they do not have the capacity to build more their is little point in dropping prices as sales are fine. Cost wise I suspect Tesla could make a 25000 car profitably today but it would sell faster than they could build them today. They did say the expect to put one on the market in the US by 2023. They want to build the cyber truck and semi first which will have better margins.

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2294 on: March 22, 2021, 11:10:54 AM »
It was pretty clear at battery day that Tesla had targeted $50 per kw/h as the mass market price for batteries.

Every manufacturer is in the position of having to invest 10's of billions to ramp up EV.  With battery prices at $100 it is sustainable for ICE comparable prices but not with ramp up.

Every manufacturer of EV vehicles, today, has a 10 year plan to get to saturation level. Until that ramp up plan is completed, battery cost is going to be a significant drag on ICE comparable pricing.

That being said, if you believe the Tesla brief, then their eventual goal has to be below ICE comparable pricing, at purchase cost, as that will completely kill the ICE market.

At $50 per kw/h it should be possible.
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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2295 on: March 23, 2021, 03:00:24 PM »
—- EV Batteries
Quote
Whole Mars Catalog @WholeMarsBlog 3/23/21, 5:33 AM 
For the 2021 update, Porsche will add an option to reduce the [Taycan’s] maximum charging speed from 270 kw to 200 kw after user complaints of heavy battery degradation while fast charging.
...
“even more precisely” = “we weren’t doing it correctly before”
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1374293192045031428
⬇️ Text image below.

Nafnlaus:
The reason they're not making it mandatory is because they still want to be able to boast that the car "can charge at 270kW".    ...
Remember when Taycan was supposed to charge at *350kW*, and all the people who know EVs raised an eyebrow at those claims, and all the Porsche fans shot back, you don't know what you're talking about, Porsche is great engineers and can do anything and probably has a superbattery?

Paul #WenButton:
Porsche: “Ve vill be reducing ze charge rate so ze battery does not go kaput”
Elon: “I told you so”
➡️ https://twitter.com/pstep84/status/1374302079414534147
30 sec audio clip: Elon, Q1 2018 earnings call: over ~200-250kW, you will frag the battery pack.

Porsche’s first Taycan Software Update is not over-the-air, requires early owners to bring car in for service
https://techau.com.au/porsches-first-taycan-software-update-is-not-over-the-air-requires-early-owners-to-bring-car-in-for-service/

——
Northvolt:
Announcing the next step in the Northvolt–VWGroup partnership, beginning with a $14 billion cell supply order as Northvolt is selected as a strategic lead supplier for premium battery cells for Volkswagen Group in Europe.
Quote
   •   Northvolt and Volkswagen Group unveil next step in partnership plans: Northvolt receives $14 billion order as it is selected as a strategic lead supplier for premium battery cells for Volkswagen Group in Europe. Volkswagen will at the same time increase its ownership in Northvolt.
   •   The Northvolt Volkswagen partnership will be centered around Northvolt’s gigafactory in Sweden, which will be expanded to achieve further economies of scale, reduced complexity and a better environmental footprint for the product.
   •   Northvolt will sell its joint venture share in Salzgitter, Germany, to Volkswagen as the automotive company  scales  up its battery manufacturing efforts in Europe. ...
https://northvolt.com/newsroom/NorthvoltEtt-supply

—-
Quote
The tractor on Nikola’s first truck to enter production will weigh more than diesel-powered vehicles, contrary to previous claims on the company’s website that disappeared the week federal prosecutors began investigating the company.

The electric truck start-up said six months ago that the battery-powered Nikola Tre, with a 300-mile range designed for regional routes, would be “as light as comparable diesels”, allowing truck operators “to transport more goods on each load”. US regulation caps the weight of a fully loaded truck at 80,000 pounds, so lighter vehicles free up room for revenue-generating cargo.

But the Tre’s tractor — the machine towing the trailer carrying freight — weighs 29,800 pounds, according to magnified footage from a recent Nikola promotional video. The tractor for a diesel truck weighs about 17,000 pounds. ... 
https://consumersadvisory.com/2021/03/03/nikola-dropped-claim-on-truck-weight-after-us-investigations-began/amp/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2296 on: March 23, 2021, 03:36:21 PM »
Study Reveals Plunge In Lithium-Ion Battery Costs
https://techxplore.com/news/2021-03-reveals-plunge-lithium-ion-battery.html



The cost of the rechargeable lithium-ion batteries used for phones, laptops, and cars has fallen dramatically over the last three decades, and has been a major driver of the rapid growth of those technologies. But attempting to quantify that cost decline has produced ambiguous and conflicting results that have hampered attempts to project the technology's future or devise useful policies and research priorities.

Now, MIT researchers have carried out an exhaustive analysis of the studies that have looked at the decline in the prices these batteries, which are the dominant rechargeable technology in today's world. The new study looks back over three decades, including analyzing the original underlying datasets and documents whenever possible, to arrive at a clear picture of the technology's trajectory.

The researchers found that the cost of these batteries has dropped by 97 percent since they were first commercially introduced in 1991. This rate of improvement is much faster than many analysts had claimed and is comparable to that of solar photovoltaic panels, which some had considered to be an exceptional case. The new findings are reported today in the journal Energy and Environmental Science, in a paper by MIT postdoc Micah Ziegler and Associate Professor Jessika Trancik.

... The researchers dug into the original sources of the published data, in some cases finding that certain primary data had been used in multiple studies that were later cited as separate sources, or that the original data sources had been lost along the way. And while most studies have focused only on the cost, Ziegler says it became clear that such a one-dimensional analysis might underestimate how quickly lithium-ion technologies improved; in addition to cost, weight and volume are also key factors for both vehicles and portable electronics. So, the team added a second track to the study, analyzing the improvements in these parameters as well.

That broader analysis helps to define what may be possible in the future, he adds: "We're saying that lithium-ion technologies might improve more quickly for certain applications than would be projected by just looking at one measure of performance. By looking at multiple measures, you get essentially a clearer picture of the improvement rate, and this suggests that they could maybe improve more rapidly for applications where the restrictions on mass and volume are relaxed."



"Battery costs determine price parity of electric vehicles with internal combustion engine vehicles," says Venkat Viswanathan, an associate professor of mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University, who was not associated with this work. "Thus, projecting battery cost declines is probably one of the most critical challenges in ensuring an accurate understanding of adoption of electric vehicles."

Viswanathan adds that "the finding that cost declines may occur faster than previously thought will enable broader adoption, increasing volumes, and leading to further cost declines. ... The datasets curated, analyzed and released with this paper will have a lasting impact on the community."

...."These trends are so consequential for getting us to where we are right now, and also for thinking about what could happen in the future,"

Micah S. Ziegler et al. Re-examining rates of lithium-ion battery technology improvement and cost decline, Energy & Environmental Science (2021).
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/EE/D0EE02681F#!divAbstract
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

NeilT

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2297 on: March 24, 2021, 09:20:18 PM »
There has been a trend in battery technology of a 25 year window for major technology jumps.  However, just as has been seen with processors for computers reaching atomic levels, there are limits.  It would appear that Li has taken us closer to one of those limits and it may take a little longer before we see the next step change.

Mind you the focus of the whole world is on this right now.  We _need_ some real change here and the money is starting to back the research to get it.

Beyond that, it is not clear, right now, which technology will deliver eventually.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2298 on: March 25, 2021, 07:25:29 PM »
—- Supercharging for non-Teslas?
Rumors are circulating on Twitter that Tesla may soon be making its chargers available to non-Tesla cars. 
You will recall that Elon has said previously that Tesla was open to the idea, if the cars were capable and the manufacturers paid their way.  Also, a few months ago, other brands discovered they could use Tesla’s CCS chargers in Europe — until the word got out and Tesla shut that down.

Tesla owners have concerns including the additional EVs overwhelming existing charging stations.

But positives include that Tesla could lead the adoption of a national, or even global, charging standard, and the additional income result in a faster build-out of new superchargers — a chore other manufacturers seem happy to leave to others.  The upcoming U.S. infrastructure bill would be more likely to throw support to Tesla if it were open to other brands; and Tesla charging is usually cheaper than the alternative charging options.  Besides the benefit of more free advertising for Tesla, it could also help lower prices for other EVs.
Quote
Mirek Bujna from Charge Now @mirekbujna 3/25/21, 7:52 AM
BREAKING: #Tesla is supposedly going to open Superchargers for non-Tesla EVs. Requirements? Adapter and the Tesla app. Pricing is unclear for now. $TSLA
> The nearest non-Tesla charger to me is ElectrifyAmerica charging a staggering $0.43/kWh. That is about 2x what Tesla charges at my nearest Supercharger. Tesla has a great opportunity to undercut the competition on price.
<> It’s good for Tesla. When people go charge their inferior vehicles and see how much better a Tesla is, they’ll wanna switch over.
> Also, the federal government needs to come in and standardize EV charging ports. It should provide subsidies for the standardization. At this point it's arguable the standard should be Tesla's lol, but they'll probably form an industry committee.
< They will probably be the national charging system.
https://twitter.com/mirekbujna/status/1375052923810512898

Recent Tesla tweet:
Quote
Tesla @Tesla 3/25/21, 12:12 PM
6,000+ Superchargers across Europe — at 600 locations and counting!
...
https://twitter.com/tesla/status/1375118425362628613
4 Photos at the link

From December:
Tesla Superchargers already open to other electric cars
Tesla CEO Elon Musk announces "low-key" agreements with third parties.
Dec 22, 2020
https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/22/tesla-superchargers-already-open-to-other-electric-cars/


—- Ford Mustang Mach-e price gouging at some U.S. dealerships
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1374390354556841993
Photo of price sheet titled “Protecting the Consumer.”  Handwritten addition:  “+ $10,000 market adjustment”. Total price $69,400.

Ford North America product communications manager Mike Levine:
I hope you won’t be asked to pay over MSRP. But Ford dealers are independent franchises, as you know. Ultimately, it’s up to a customer and dealer to determine the final price that will be paid above or below MSRP. That’s why it’s called a suggested retail price.
https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1373082317917282305

Any Mach-E customer who sees a dealer adding a markup can reach out to me. I’ll help them find another dealer. ...
https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1373646122548301833


—— Connecticut bill re: Direct Sales vs. Dealerships 
Tesla, Lucid, Rivian, & Other EV Makers Scored A Win In Connecticut
Mar 24
Quote
I recently wrote about a Connecticut state bill, SB-127, that would enable EV makers to sell directly to their customers and bypass the outdated dealership model, as is done in many other states. The initial committee vote took place earlier today and the good news is that SB-127 passed the committee vote, but there is still a long road ahead. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/24/tesla-lucid-rivian-other-ev-makers-scored-a-win-in-connecticut/amp/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

interstitial

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2299 on: March 26, 2021, 02:25:04 AM »
—- Ford Mustang Mach-e price gouging at some U.S. dealerships
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1374390354556841993
Photo of price sheet titled “Protecting the Consumer.”  Handwritten addition:  “+ $10,000 market adjustment”. Total price $69,400.

Ford North America product communications manager Mike Levine:
I hope you won’t be asked to pay over MSRP. But Ford dealers are independent franchises, as you know. Ultimately, it’s up to a customer and dealer to determine the final price that will be paid above or below MSRP. That’s why it’s called a suggested retail price.
https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1373082317917282305

Any Mach-E customer who sees a dealer adding a markup can reach out to me. I’ll help them find another dealer. ...
https://twitter.com/mrlevine/status/1373646122548301833
This is a common practice for limited edition cars. Mostly this is yet another reminder that Ford is still not serious about producing electric cars.