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Author Topic: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux  (Read 70468 times)

swoozle

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #300 on: June 18, 2020, 07:27:46 AM »
My car battery died.
This is not the first time, and my guardian says it’s because I don’t drive it enough. He wants me to drive it about twenty minutes in a parking lot two or three times a week.
Is he right?

Or, if practical for your situation, get a cheap car battery charger and use that to charge the battery up every week or so. No need to burn all that gas to go in circles.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #301 on: June 18, 2020, 01:11:09 PM »
How does a battery charger work? Do I have to plug in? I live in an apartment style condo with a carport across the parking lot, is this a deal breaker?

KiwiGriff

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #302 on: June 18, 2020, 03:38:48 PM »
If you park outdoors you can get a small solar panel from most auto parts stores or your on line source of choice that will keep your battery topped up .
Just place it on your dash and plug into your cigarette lighter in most cars.
https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-1163-Maintainer-Controller/dp/B004Q86JJ8?th=1
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 03:44:14 PM by KiwiGriff »
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #303 on: June 19, 2020, 04:55:45 PM »
KiwiGriff:
I suggested that to my guardian and he said, basically, "Hell no!".

blumenkraft

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #304 on: June 19, 2020, 05:29:38 PM »
What? Why??

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #305 on: June 19, 2020, 09:47:40 PM »
I would guess because unless you have a cut out circuit when the battery is fully charged you can cause the battery to explode.

NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #306 on: June 20, 2020, 04:58:34 PM »
I would guess because unless you have a cut out circuit when the battery is fully charged you can cause the battery to explode.

If you read the specs, it has an integral charge controller that ensures battery health.

I certainly did as I'm looking for something like this and have had the uncontrolled one where it fries your battery.
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #307 on: June 20, 2020, 09:57:04 PM »
I made the effort to find one that did. ;)
I use a standard 50 watt panel and a charge controller to keep the boat and tractor battery's healthy as they only get used occasionally and neither actually has a working charge circuit of the motors.

I made the following  assumptions before I made the recommendation.
A car start battery is about 50 amp hours A lead acid car battery loses about 1% of its charge per day.The ten watt panel  I suggested sitting on your car dashboard should give about .5 amps into 13.5 volts (float charge voltage) . You will get an average of about 3 times that in a day so about 1.5 amp hours.

If Toms car is running flat from lack of use it is probably losing another 1% .
So we can presume he is losing 2% of his charge daily giving about an amp hour a day loss.

An extra 0.5 amp hour a day should not kill your start battery as quickly as running it flat on a weekly basis will .


 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 10:09:02 PM by KiwiGriff »
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #308 on: June 21, 2020, 03:55:46 PM »
Needing the control circuit was just something to be aware of when looking for a solar charger as apparently NielT found out the hard way. Apparently KiwiGriff you put more effort into looking for the best one than I thought of. Tom your guardian is wrong but I would follow his or her advise anyway.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #309 on: June 21, 2020, 04:18:06 PM »
He says I don’t drive it enough for the gasoline to matter. I think he just hates the idea...he cusses out car charging parking spaces when we are out. And if you think he’s a Neanderthal you should have seen my dad...he was like Archie Bunker.

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #310 on: June 21, 2020, 05:51:32 PM »
He says I don’t drive it enough for the gasoline to matter. I think he just hates the idea...he cusses out car charging parking spaces when we are out. And if you think he’s a Neanderthal you should have seen my dad...he was like Archie Bunker.
gasoline does not need an additive if it does not sit in the tank for long. The additive discourages the gasoline from congealing in the tank. Some of the lighter compounds will evaporate lowering the octane of the gasoline. Here is a link they explain it better.
https://repairpal.com/blog/can-gasoline-go-bad#:~:text=If%20gasoline%20sits%20for%20too,burn%20efficiently%20in%20your%20engine.&text=Water%20contamination%3A%20If%20water%20gets,can%20expect%20some%20serious%20problems.

gerontocrat

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #311 on: June 21, 2020, 06:29:43 PM »
He says I don’t drive it enough for the gasoline to matter. I think he just hates the idea...he cusses out car charging parking spaces when we are out. And if you think he’s a Neanderthal you should have seen my dad...he was like Archie Bunker.
To survive Neanderthal's had to make best use of what was available.
Archie Bunkers, on the other hand, go to Trump rallies without benefit of mask and get the "sniffles"..

I think your Guardian gives us a good lesson in why it's been so hard for renewables to become mainstream.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #312 on: June 22, 2020, 09:09:21 PM »
Needing the control circuit was just something to be aware of when looking for a solar charger as apparently NielT found out the hard way. Apparently KiwiGriff you put more effort into looking for the best one than I thought of. Tom your guardian is wrong but I would follow his or her advise anyway.

In my defence I bought it about 15 years ago and used it for 3 months.

In later testing I found that full sun in the French summer pushes out 24v for about 2-3 hours.

I did find it useful for bringing discharged batteries up to a point where a smart charger would push some current into it.  About a 50% success rate.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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nanning

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #313 on: July 17, 2020, 05:04:39 AM »
Car tyres are major source of ocean microplastics – study
Wind-borne microplastics are a bigger source of ocean pollution than rivers, say scientists

"an average tyre loses 4kg during its lifetime"
That's 16 Kg per set of tires per car. Much more than the lost fibers from washing clothes

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyres-are-major-source-of-ocean-microplastics-study
  by Damian Carrington

Based on scientific article published 14 July 2020 in:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17201-9   (not paywalled)
  by N. Evangeliou, H. Grythe, Z. Klimont, C. Heyes, S. Eckhardt, S. Lopez-Aparicio & A. Stohl

 Excerpts
More than 200,000 tonnes of tiny plastic particles are blown from roads into the oceans every year, according to research.

The study suggests wind-borne microplastics are a bigger source of ocean pollution than rivers, the route that has attracted most attention to date. The analysis focused on the tiny particles produced by tyres and brake pads as they wear down.

It estimated that 550,000 tonnes of particles smaller than 0.01mm are deposited each year, with almost half ending up in the ocean. More than 80,000 tonnes fall on remote ice- and snow-covered areas and may increase melting as the dark particles absorb the sun’s heat.

Microplastic pollution has polluted the entire planet, from Arctic snow and Alpine soils to the deepest oceans. The particles can harbour toxic chemicals and harmful microbes and are known to harm some marine creatures. People are also known to consume them via food and water, and to breathe them, But the impact on human health is not yet known.

Earlier work suggested microplastic particles could be blown across the world, but the new study is the first to quantify the effect. The scientists concentrated on fine tyre and brake dust as there is better data on how these are produced than tiny microplastics from other sources, such as plastic bottles and packaging.

“Roads are a very significant source of microplastics to remote areas, including the oceans,” said Andreas Stohl, from the Norwegian Institute for Air Research, who led the research. He said an average tyre loses 4kg during its lifetime. “It’s such a huge amount of plastic compared to, say, clothes,” whose fibres are commonly found in rivers, Stohl said. “You will not lose kilograms of plastic from your clothing.”

Erik van Sebille, at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, said: “The study shows how interconnected pristine remote areas are with what we’re doing in our cities and on our roads.”

“We should be concerned,” he said. “We don’t still know really what the harm is of all these microplastics, but the precautionary principle says that we had better be careful and safe about these things.”

Stohl said the issue of tyre and brake pollution is likely to get worse before it gets better as electric cars become more common: “Electric cars are normally heavier than internal combustion engine cars. That means more wear on tyres and brakes.”



Electric cars are clearly not a solution! Does all technology have destructive consequences?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #314 on: July 17, 2020, 07:18:59 AM »
I wonder if computer-assisted driving will improve tire wear. I am sure wear depends on driving style, with reckless acceleration and deceleration leading to more particles being released into the environment. So auto-pilot, traffic-aware cruise control and similar solutions could improve the situation, along with a much lower tear of brake pads thanks to regenerative motor braking.

As for the general question, yes, all technology has destructive consequences. Some care about the degree of destructiveness, trying to replace highly destructive ones with less destructive ones. E.g. replacing incandescent bubs with LEDs, and coals plants with solar PV farms. New, better, cleaner technology is cheered. Some care about the destructiveness itself, and call for less technology. New technology just prolongs the problem.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #315 on: July 17, 2020, 07:35:04 AM »
Electric cars are clearly not a solution!

What is then?

Remember not all of us live in a densely populated flat country with mild weather .
Here in NZ public transport is uneconomic outside of a few large city's due to our low population density and the terrain is too gnarly for cycling. I am  simply not going to walk the twenty four  kilometres  just to get to a shop and back.  I am not even in a  remote region for NZ .

You are not going to sell doing away with private cars to many tens of millions of people in the developed world unless you have a viable alternative .
Perfect is the enemy of the good.
   Electric cars will reduce the major issue of CO2 emissions from personal transport .
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #316 on: July 17, 2020, 07:55:26 AM »
Of course, the biggest problem is that you have 7+ billion humans, which have their own worries and aspirations. They desire a house and work and food and transportation and children, and a clean planet is great as long as it doesn't get in their way. Some think this is all driven by media and advertising and all that, me I think that's nonsense. Humans strove to better their living conditions since before they were humans, rarely stopping themselves because of the consequences (pollution, dead Neanderthals, killed humans, deforestation, disease, extinction of animals, etc.).
These billions of humans are not under your control and are not reading this forum. They will do as they please and as they can afford.
So a solution, by definition, needs to be something that can reach these humans, and change their behavior. Very hard to do, no matter how good an example you set and how many people you convince on this forum or in real life. In this aspect, electric cars ARE a solution, as they entice many humans to ditch their fuel-burning polluting cars and replace them with less polluting alternatives. Of course, Electric cars are NOT a solution, as 2 billion electric cars will cause much damage to the planet, though admittedly less damage than their ICE brethren. Bottom line, there is NO solution that both saves the planet and is applied widely enough to matter. But this is the old Green BAU argument all over again, and belongs in yet another thread...

Hefaistos

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #317 on: July 17, 2020, 11:20:47 AM »
Car tyres are major source of ocean microplastics – study
Wind-borne microplastics are a bigger source of ocean pollution than rivers, say scientists

"an average tyre loses 4kg during its lifetime"
That's 16 Kg per set of tires per car. Much more than the lost fibers from washing clothes

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyres-are-major-source-of-ocean-microplastics-study
...

I never rode in a car with plastic tyres?
Aren't tyres made of rubber? - which btw is based on a natural product.
Funny that they don't even mention the word rubber in the Guardian article.
I suppose that plastics and rubber have rather different chemical half-lifes, and environmental effects.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 11:27:39 AM by Hefaistos »

oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #318 on: July 17, 2020, 11:27:10 AM »
Quote
Today tires consist of about 19 percent natural rubber and 24 percent synthetic rubber, which is a plastic polymer.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/09/tires-unseen-plastic-polluter/

nanning

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #319 on: July 17, 2020, 12:08:42 PM »
Thank you for your responses.
Warning: I am somewhat sarcastic today after this morning's disappointments by moving my post and kassy's 'moderation'

Most people on this planet do not own a car.

I observe on this forum in these cases a privileged-people bubble, blacking out all other people (the majority) (no pun intended). These people are the same sort of people who dig up your essential resources and make your clothes etc. etc.
Please think honestly about it and understand where your anger comes from.

Try to imagine to amount of microplastic from 12 Kg of plastic (av. life time pollution of just one set of tires).
The research shows that the airborne plastic pollution is larger than all the plastic flowing from rivers into the ocean. Think about that for a minute.

This is not just a little drawback from driving cars that can be swept under the carpet (as will undoubtedly happen here as I have learned from past experiences). The advertorials will come back (without any new technology, just features and products) and all is forgotten.

Many (erroneously) think that cars are essential. I have ideas on solving the problem of a society without cars (much more localized work/production etc.) but that is for later actually, it has been done before not so long ago.

My intention here is to inform, discus and build a consensus. I really thought that this was a scientific oriented forum, open to new ideas and insights; creating hypotheses and analyse them and then refine and create new hypotheses so that a consensus arises. Until new information comes in and the scientific process restarts. No feelings, believes, privileges or bubbles can be part of that process.
Imo, creating a consensus here has appeared to be nigh on impossible because most forum members' minds are already set with "nobody takes away my car", "there's no alternative" or "I will not sacrifice anything because I believe in progress of technology that will solve everything". This is privileged thinking; the sacrifices have to be made by other (poor) people. And so it goes.

----
Hefaistos, try to investigate it for yourself. I know you can because of your posts in the AbruptSLR thread. I am not going to 'defend' the scientific article. Take it up with the researchers if you doubt the results. Start with looking up "synthetic rubber" on wikipedia.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

bluice

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #320 on: July 17, 2020, 12:23:17 PM »
Nanning, I honestly think most here recognize the adverse environmental effects cars produce.

But that is besides the point.  Whether we like it or not, we will never get rid of cars or other personal vehicles. That's why we should find ways to minimize their harmful impact. EVs are one way to do this. We have the technology to decarbonize electricity production. It's not easy but it is possible. With EVs we can decarbonize transportation also.

It is not a perfect solution, but it is better and it is doable.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #321 on: July 17, 2020, 02:18:07 PM »
nanning, it seems you have mistaken planet Earth for planet Vulcan. Even on the ASIF we do not have pointed ears.

nanning

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #322 on: July 17, 2020, 04:00:35 PM »
But we do have mainly privileged thinking Tom, not logical at all. These privileged people cannot see beyond their bubble to see other paths forward.
See how the effects on the majority of (poor) people, who do not own a car, are swept away? It is their planet too.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #323 on: July 17, 2020, 05:52:44 PM »
There is currently no option for the transport of persons and goods (including food, clothing and shelter materials) by road (in particular the “last miles”) to reach most areas of the globe.  However, efforts can be made today to reduce environmental damage caused by that transport.  Eliminating exhaust emissions would reduce as much or more PM10 pollution than eliminating brake and tire wear.

Quote
Abstract
Traffic related sources are a significant contributor of particulate matter, particularly in urban environments and major cities. Traffic related particles can be distinguished into: exhaust traffic related particles, which are emitted as a result of incomplete fuel combustion and lubricant volatilization during the combustion procedure, and non-exhaust traffic related particles, which are either generated from non-exhaust traffic related sources such as brake, tyre, clutch and road surface wear or already exist in the environment as deposited material and become resuspended due to traffic induced turbulence. ...
https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JRC89231/jrc89231-online%20final%20version%202.pdf
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #324 on: July 17, 2020, 07:16:46 PM »
But we do have mainly privileged thinking Tom, not logical at all. These privileged people cannot see beyond their bubble to see other paths forward.
See how the effects on the majority of (poor) people, who do not own a car, are swept away? It is their planet too.

People like youself perhaps with a very privileged viewpoint.

“Over the next 30 years, the most rapid expansion of economies and populations will occur in urban areas distributed throughout the poorest countries,” says Wood. “This rapid and unsustainable growth will make developing cities among the primary sources of environmental damage and air pollution.

Under solutions,

Quote
Cleaner methods of transportation, better waste management, better methods of energy production, and technology to reduce emissions will need to be created by government agencies and private interests.

These methods are being created by the developed nations, funded by the purchases of private individuals and government subsidies.  Such as private vehicles.

When needed, these solutions will be available to the poorer countries to reduce their emissions whilst growing their economies.

Your viewpoint is retrograde and doomed to failure. The other viewpoint may not succeed but it will not be for lack of trying and it is a forward moving vision.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

gerontocrat

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #325 on: July 17, 2020, 07:41:50 PM »
These methods are being created by the developed nations, funded by the purchases of private individuals and government subsidies.  Such as private vehicles.

When needed, these solutions will be available to the poorer countries to reduce their emissions whilst growing their economies.
When needed? Why not NOW.

India, Africa etc are still being pushed down the fossil fuel / ICE road by OECD based financial institutions, even though renewable-energy based solutions are often cheaper, quicker to implement and reduce dependence on expensive imports from OECD / OPEC countries that consume vast quantities of the foreign currency they do not have.

But they can always borrow, can't they? A few more billions of soft loans in hard currency won't hurt, will it|?

Of course, it surely can't be true that the OECD countries are extracting the last dregs of profits from yesterday's technology by dumping it on less fortunate countries.

One of the many reasons I just chucked the International Development business in the bin.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #326 on: July 17, 2020, 09:02:27 PM »
...
When needed? Why not NOW.

India, Africa etc are still being pushed down the fossil fuel / ICE road by OECD based financial institutions, even though renewable-energy based solutions are often cheaper, quicker to implement and reduce dependence on expensive imports from OECD / OPEC countries that consume vast quantities of the foreign currency they do not have. ...[/i]

I just posted this in the EVs thread:
Driving Electric in Africa Is A Whole Lot Cheaper Than Driving ICE: Part 2
Quote
Driving the 38.3 kWh Hyundai Ioniq over 100 km in Angola would only cost you $0.21! Yes, $0.21. In Egypt it would cost you just $0.46 and in Algeria it could cost you $0.61. The Hyundai Ionic has won critical acclaim for its exceptional efficiency. With its consumption of around 153 Wh/km it is surely one to get in these countries. Looking at an equivalent ICE car, the Toyota Corolla would cost you a whopping eleven times more at $2.40 in Angola to drive the same distance. It would also cost you four times more at $2.60 in Algeria and nine times more at $4.01 in Egypt. …
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/07/17/driving-electric-in-africa-is-a-whole-lot-cheaper-than-driving-ice-part-2/

EVs being cheaper to operate, then add autonomy/ride-sharing capability and that checks several boxes:  less FF, fewer cars, fewer emissions.  Eventually, less power of the oil companies to run things, if one dares to think that optimisticly.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #327 on: July 17, 2020, 09:13:25 PM »
I agree gerontocrat, but I was painting with a very broad brush.

But running an EV on dirty coal with no filters can be more damaging than running a modern hybrid like a prius.

So I thought a bit of caution was warranted.  Granted renewable power is always good, but other tech on older infrastructure might not be.

Hence the "as needed".
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #328 on: July 17, 2020, 11:04:32 PM »
Mr. Nanning, what would the world with far fewer cars look like ?  Is that world one with no privately owned cars in that world, but vastly expanded public transport and trucks for transport of cargo ?

sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #329 on: July 18, 2020, 06:10:46 AM »
Warning: drama ahead ;)

I don't know what I will look like sidd, but the picture you painted is in the right direction I think.
In my earlier post I have written that everything should return to much more local production and work. That way we would be much more resilient as well, food-wise and energy-wise. There is a final global catastrophy looming for civilisation. Compared to that the COVID-19 pandemic is peanuts.

Should we not focus on the most vulnerable (which is also the majority of humans on Earth)? And should we not work towards a solution for everybody (and every lifeform)? But in civilisation they get trampled, abused and exploited.
What is the role of christianity? To focus on 1) more money and power for the rich and exploitating the vulnerable or 2) share with and help the vulnerable? Where has Jezus' great example gone? An upside down world indeed. "Me me me and we we we" say the already affluent ones who have the power.
I stand with the vulnerable and made a personal life choice to be non-affluent (poor)! Please think about that for a moment. I experience what the poor are living through and how they get treated. I do not participate in bad systems. I wish all people would try to do that. They don't. Probably because it takes many sacrifices and self discipline to walk that path.

Thank you gero for giving the correct view. The gasoline that is sold and transported there is much dirtier than ours as well. They get bad shit from us in almost every way.

12 Kg's of microplastic per set of car tires.
GHG, roads, parking lots, garages, aerosols, noise, pollution, Cobalt mining, human rights, Lithium wars, road kill... but still the Pharao's heart stayed hard. The private car is not seen as a tool anymore, but as a precious jewel. O nooo, a scratch on my tool. That is Insane.

A car is a very luxury enclosed personal motor-assisted extremely-high-energy-use polluting means of transport weighing more than 1200 Kg's. So you won't have to move yourself, just press buttons. A car is a weapon of mass destruction and sign of lazyness and disconnect with nature and social society.

Ease, comfort and being inside makes you weak and sick. And addicted; scared as hell to lose it.

I find it remarkable (significant) how people who post comments in TheGuardian are also privileged but so much more open, respectful and willing to see other solutions and paths. Much more empathy there as well. Alas it is not a forum. I had thought that this forum would consist of the same sort of intelligent people but not so (some exceptions). Perhaps (likely) it is a USA thing.


Sorry for this little 'rant' and the drama. I am reconsidering what I am doing here. I have accomplished nothing here (change minds, teach, build up credit) after more than a year of really trying, being nice and respectful, and a lot of effort. I am not here for entertainment at all. I have brought many new ideas and views to no avail. Sisyphus and Cassandra come to mind.
Don't interpret that wrong please because I have much respect for the majority of forum members.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 06:15:51 AM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #330 on: July 18, 2020, 09:18:16 AM »
Thanks for the reply. I suggest we take this discussion to a new thread, perhaps called "Life Without Cars"

On second thought, perhaps just "Life Without"

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3189.msg274990.html#msg274990

sidd


oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #331 on: July 18, 2020, 11:30:43 AM »
Nanning, I wish you wouldn't be offended so. Just so that you are aware, your posts have a lot of effect and get people to thinking. But I think you are overly focused on the aspect of personal example and miss something in the aspect of a global solution.
Maybe the difference with the people in the Guardian comment section is that on this forum are gathered people who are aware of and care about solving the problems of all humanity, so are less focused on their own personal situation and issues.
A global solution to the private car problem should address the huge segments of:
* People who don't care abut AGW, pollution and other long-term trends
* People for whom the car is the most efficient, the cheapest, or the only possible method, of getting from point A to point B, especially for getting to the workplace, but also for visiting relatives and for buying everyday necessities.

You constantly assume that people who are not convinced by your ideas do so because of their own personal situation, "in love with their cars". "luxury toys", "privileged", "laziness", "scared to lose it", and so on. I think this overlooks the logical arguments people make which highlight the problem of implementing your ideas globally - namely the lack of popular support for them, and the need for alternative transportation solutions for masses of people, solution which in most cases do not currently exist, and that in many cases are not economical to be put in place, or have great political/popular resistance. This is not about you and not about me, it is about the global population, all 7.5 billion of them, and the rate of addition, 80 million net extra people every year. And about the global fleet of private cars, all 1.2 billion of them, and the rate of addition, 80 million new cars every year.
If you think all 80 million cars are sold because of consumerism, mass advertising and brainwashing, and people "in love with their cars", I believe you are wrong. There are economical and logical reasons why so many people spend so much on a huge machine that mainly gives financial headaches. Find the reasons. Deal with the reasons, in a manner that will actually get widely implemented.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #332 on: July 18, 2020, 04:18:54 PM »
Nanning,

I and others recommend solutions that will gradually reduce the need for private cars, and make the remaining ones less polluting.  Of course, this will not happen overnight.

What solutions do you have that would make the need for private cars reduce any faster? 

Keep in mind that every municipality cannot spend millions of dollars on mass transportation, particularly now during the pandemic — and even if they did, such infrastructure building (even adding buses or sidewalks) takes years. 

Tesla has a Master Plan, being executed right now, for accelerating the advent of sustainable energy and transport.  What is yours?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 05:29:15 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #334 on: October 26, 2020, 01:30:22 PM »
Climate change: 'Dangerous and dirty' used cars sold to Africa

Millions of highly polluting used cars from rich countries are being "dumped" on developing nations, according to a UN report.

Between 2015 and 2018, some 14 million older, poor quality vehicles were exported from Europe, Japan and the US.

Four out of five were sold to poorer countries, with more than half going to Africa.

Experts say that up to 80% failed to meet minimum safety and environmental standards in exporting countries.

As well as causing accidents, these cars make air pollution worse and contribute heavily to climate change.

Many of the vehicles have also been tampered with to remove valuable parts.

...

Car ownership is booming all over the world with an estimated 1.4bn vehicles on the roads, a number that's expected to reach around two billion by 2040.

...

They believe these imports are responsible for increased levels of road accidents in many poorer African and Asian countries. The cars are also pumping out fine particulate matter and nitrogen oxides, which are major sources of air pollution in many cities.

"In 2017, the average age of a diesel vehicle imported into Uganda was over 20 years old," said Jane Akumu, also from Unep.

"This is the same story for Zimbabwe. In fact, around 30 countries of Africa do not have any age limit on cars. So, any kind of car of any kind of age, can come in."

As well as failing to meet road safety and environmental standards, a significant number were tampered with and had important equipment removed.

"They cut out catalytic converters, because the platinum value is worth $500. And they put in a piece of steel pipe and weld it back in," said Rob de Jong.

"They have illegally removed the airbags, because they have a value in Europe, they have illegally removed the anti-lock brake system because it has a value and is being sold on the black market."

Of the vehicles in the report, more than 54% came from Europe. Many were exported through the Netherlands.

The Dutch authorities are concerned about the trade and want action taken at the European level.

and more on:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54665545
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #335 on: October 26, 2020, 02:26:59 PM »
Having been in Argentina, Venezuela and Brazil, I'm aware it is not just Africa that gets these vehicles and that huge US gas guzzlers also flood out of the US.

Caracas was an education in old US vehicles.  At pennies for gallons, running a huge US truck from the 50's or 60's was not an issue.  Well to the owner, to the environment a big issue.
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kassy

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #336 on: March 13, 2021, 01:14:15 PM »
Road pollution affects 94% of Britain - despite the fact only ONE per cent of the country is occupied by roads, study finds

...

The most widespread forms of pollution from roads and vehicles are particulate matter, tiny particles from the burning of fossil fuels in engines, they found.

Noise and light pollution were also major factors considered by the team as they examined the impact of British roads on the country as a whole.

They found that even low levels of pollution from roads could harm wildlife, with the impact on human health particularly high in urban areas with greater pollution levels.

Roads form a 'vast, pervasive and growing network, causing negative environmental impacts' for the entire country, the study authors warned in their paper.

'We found half of land is no more than 216 metres from a road.

'That’s a really shocking and quite depressing statistic and it seems like that would have massive environmental consequences,' he explained.

The team discovered that more than 70% of the country is affected by noise, light, micro-plastic and fossil fuel pollution - with only high altitude areas spared.

'With Great Britain as a study area, we used mapping of roads and realistic estimates of how pollution levels decay with distance to project road pollution.'

They used publicly available data on exhaust pollution, light and noise pollution as well as metal and plastic pollution linked to roadways to see how it disperses.

This allowed them to estimate the total area of the country affected by the impact of road-linked pollution.

“The ubiquity of road pollution should be seriously considered as a potential contributor to global and regional-scale environmental issues such as insect declines,' the team wrote in their journal article.

The extent of the impact and influence of roads on the environment has previously been 'overlooked and underestimated,' the authors warned.

Philips told the Guardian: 'We’ve got global-scale environmental pressures and people always point at agriculture, because agriculture is absolutely everywhere across the country.

'The point we’re making is that road pollution is another thing that’s absolutely everywhere, even though it’s low level.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9356295/Road-pollution-affects-94-Britain-despite-roads-covering-1-UK.html
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #337 on: April 09, 2021, 11:01:47 AM »
Even 'safe' ambient CO levels may harm health, study finds

Data collected from 337 cities across 18 countries show that even slight increases in ambient carbon monoxide levels from automobiles and other sources are associated with increased mortality.

A scientific team led by Yale School of Public Health Assistant Professor Kai Chen analyzed data, including a total of 40 million deaths from 1979 to 2016, and ran it through a statistical model. The research, published today in The Lancet Planetary Health, also found that even short-term exposure to ambient carbon monoxide (CO)—at levels below the current air quality guidelines and considered safe—had an association with increased mortality.

Overall, a 1 mg/m³ increase in the average CO concentration of the previous day was associated with a 0.91% increase in daily total mortality, the study found. This suggests considerable public health benefits could be achieved by reducing ambient CO concentrations through stricter control of traffic emissions and other measures.

Chen and colleagues also discovered that the exposure-response curve was steeper at daily CO levels lower than 1 mg/m³, indicating greater risk of mortality per increment in CO exposure, and this persisted at daily concentrations as low as 0.6 mg/m³ or less. The findings reveal that there is no evidence for a threshold value below which exposure to ambient CO can be considered "safe."

and more on:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-04-safe-ambient-health.html
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morganism

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #338 on: June 30, 2021, 12:33:39 AM »
Building Mixed-Income Housing in Wealthy Urban Neighborhoods Can Improve Climate

"The shortage is so deep that even many middle-income households are not able to find sufficiently affordable housing near their jobs, causing them to drive more. In 2017 transportation surpassed electricity to become the largest source of climate pollution in the United States. A majority of this pollution comes from people driving passenger cars and trucks. Most troublingly, increases in private car travel have historically outpaced vehicle efficiency improvements to drive increasing carbon emissions. In fact, efficiency improvements alone tend to induce more driving, along with highway expansion that has far outpaced population growth.

Therefore, we must not only move from conventional efficiency toward rapid vehicle electrification, we must also reduce vehicle miles traveled by investing in inclusive, complete, compact, transit-oriented communities. And to do this equitably, we must change our zoning laws to allow mixed-income housing in higher-income, urban or walkable neighborhoods."

https://rmi.org/building-mixed-income-housing-in-wealthy-urban-neighborhoods-can-improve-climate-and-equity

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #339 on: September 02, 2021, 04:42:01 PM »
GM to significantly cut North American vehicle production due to chip shortage
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/09/02/gm-to-significantly-cut-north-american-vehicle-production-due-to-chip-shortage.html

DETROIT – General Motors said Thursday that it's adding or extending downtimes at eight plants in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, due to the semiconductor chip shortage. Most of the new cuts are for two weeks, while production of its Silverado 1500 and Sierra 1500 full-size pickups in Indiana and Mexico is expected to resume after a week of downtime on Sept. 13.

Other vehicles impacted by the new production cuts range from its Chevrolet and GMC midsize pickups and vans in Missouri to the Chevrolet Trailblazer in Mexico and crossover production across North America.

[... they forgot to include the Bolt]
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #340 on: September 09, 2021, 05:55:02 PM »
A problem that will only increase with increasing rainfall.

—- Flooded cars are a problem for their owners — and future car buyers
Sept. 3, 2021
Quote
The flooding from [Hurricane] Ida caps a summer season that has left many parts of the country waterlogged. That, in turn, has created major headaches for car owners — and car buyers. Thousands of vehicles have been seriously damaged or completely ruined. But many owners soon could find that, despite carrying insurance, they are out of luck when it comes to recouping their losses.

In the months to come, meanwhile, some of those flood-damaged vehicles may show back up on the used vehicle market through an appropriately named scam known as “title washing.” Someone buying one of those vehicles could be in for a number of headaches. …
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/flooded-cars-are-problem-their-owners-future-car-buyers-n1278493
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vox_mundi

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #341 on: November 18, 2021, 08:42:43 PM »
Ford and Chipmaker Announce Noncommittal “Partnership” to Alleviate Shortages
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/11/ford-and-chipmaker-announce-noncommittal-partnership-to-alleviate-shortages/

"Non-binding agreement" promises more supply but is light on particulars.

In an effort to combat the ongoing global chip shortage, chipmaker GlobalFoundries and the Ford Motor Company have announced a "strategic collaboration" today, both via press release and coverage in The Wall Street Journal. The "non-binding agreement," according to the release, "opens the door" for GlobalFoundries to deliver more chips to Ford in the short-term, while promising collaboration on future chips for cars.

https://gf.com/press-release/globalfoundries-ford-address-auto-chip-supply-and-meet-growing-demand

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-enters-semiconductor-business-amid-chip-shortage-impact-11637242202

"These could include semiconductor solutions for ADAS, battery management systems, and in-vehicle networking for an automated, connected, and electrified future," the release reads. "GF and Ford also will explore expanded semiconductor manufacturing opportunities to support the automotive industry."

This all sounds promising, though the press release doesn't actually commit either company to any specific actions. When contacted for information on more particulars, Ford spokesperson Jennifer Flake reiterated that this was "an agreement to work together on the areas called out in the release," but had no further information to share.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #342 on: December 22, 2021, 08:08:09 PM »
Toyota Now Charges a Subscription Fee to Use Remote Start Functionality
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/329723-toyota-now-charges-a-subscription-fee-to-use-remote-start-functionality

When a company decides it wants to launch a subscription service and convert free users to paying customers, there are two basic ways to go about it. One method is to create new product features or service tiers that are only available to subscribers while keeping free benefits the same as they were before. Another is to remove services that were formerly free and lock them behind a paywall. The first encourages people to sign up by enticing them with new options. The second method “encourages” people to sign up by taking away valued functionality in the hopes people are willing to pay for it instead.

Toyota has surveyed the market and gone with the second approach. Since 2018, the company has sold Remote Start as a factory option on all vehicles equipped with either Audio Plus or Premium Audio. What most customers were apparently unaware of is that continuing to use the Remote Start functionality of the vehicle is dependent on paying Toyota a monthly subscription fee. The company claims to offer a three-year “free trial,” but after that period is over, it expects you to start forking over $8 month for the privilege of starting your car remotely.

The key fob one uses to start a modern Toyota does not communicate with any servers. It does not contain or use a cellular modem. There is — and I can’t stress this enough — no technical reason why this type of remote starter requires a subscription service. Toyota just wants you to give it more money.

The other problem is that any customer who signs up for this service is paying Toyota to literally do nothing. Toyota wants you to pay it for the privilege of sending a radio signal across ~50 feet of open air, just because it can charge for it. There is no value add.This is rent-seeking at its finest.

Toyota doesn’t actually play a role in the communication between a key fob and the car. Customers aren’t paying Toyota $8 to provide Remote Start — they’re paying Toyota $8/month to get the hell out of the way and let the vehicle work as it otherwise would.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #343 on: January 05, 2022, 02:13:40 AM »
TOYOTA OUTSOLD GENERAL MOTORS IN 2021 IN THE UNITED STATES, DETHRONING DETROIT AUTOMAKER THAT HAS BEEN U.S. SALES LEADER SINCE 1931
1/4/22 https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1478388599662039052
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #344 on: January 12, 2022, 07:56:19 PM »
Jet Fighter With a Steering Wheel: Inside the Augmented-Reality Car HUD
https://spectrum.ieee.org/augmented-reality-car-hud

Mercedes is pioneering it, but mass-market players will be bringing head-up-display (HUD) driving to the rest of us soon



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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #345 on: January 13, 2022, 02:34:36 PM »
It seems to me that a lot of the posts in "Policy and Solutions" are about policy and solutions for  increasing CO2 emissions. Here's another ome

https://www.iea.org/commentaries/global-suv-sales-set-another-record-in-2021-setting-back-efforts-to-reduce-emissions
Global SUV sales set another record in 2021, setting back efforts to reduce emissions
Quote
The number of SUVs on the world’s roads increased by more than 35 million over the past 12 months, driving up annual CO2 emissions by 120 million tonnes
Global SUV sales have proven very resilient throughout the pandemic, growing by over 10% between 2020 and 2021. In 2021, SUVs are on course to account for more than 45% of global car sales – setting a new record in terms of both volume and market share. The growth of SUVs continues to be robust in several countries, including the United States, India and across Europe. In some other countries, such as China, the growth of SUVs is stagnating, mainly driven by the big rise of small battery-powered electric cars.

......the large majority – over 98% – of SUVs on the world’s roads today still rely on internal combustion engines. SUVs are also heavier and consume around 20% more energy than a medium-sized car. The global fleet of SUVs has increased rapidly, from less than 50 million in 2010 to around 320 million in 2021 – equivalent to the total car fleet of Europe. As such, SUVs rank among the top causes of energy-related carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions growth over the last decade. In 2021 alone, the global fleet of SUVs increased by over 35 million, driving up annual emissions by 120 million tonnes of CO2.

SUVs rank among the top causes of energy-related carbon dioxide emissions growth over the last decade
If SUVs were an individual country, they would rank sixth in the world for absolute emissions in 2021, emitting over 900 million tonnes of CO2. To offset the growth in global emissions since 2010 due to the increase in the number of SUVs, the world’s electric car fleet would need to have expanded to become twice as large as it is today. The good news is that skyrocketing electric car sales in 2021 are expected to be just about sufficient to cancel out the additional emissions stemming from the 35 million SUVs that were purchased instead of average-sized cars.

To mitigate emissions from SUVs, the policy framework should focus on constraining their rise. Policies should support a quicker shift towards electric vehicles while also providing incentives for the early replacement of SUVs that run on petrol or diesel. The average size of vehicles in the car fleet is something that policy makers need to keep a close eye on. Apart from consuming more energy, larger cars drive up demand for critical minerals because battery-powered electric SUVs are equipped with a much larger battery (70 kilowatt-hours) than the average battery electric car (around 50 kilowatt-hours). Some governments have already started introducing relevant measures, such as France and Germany, which have put a tax on large and high-emissions cars like SUVs. Additional policies targeting SUVs will help to deliver a sustainable and low-carbon road passenger sector.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #346 on: January 13, 2022, 07:02:47 PM »
Quote
Global SUV sales set another record in 2021, setting back efforts to reduce emissions

The popularity of SUVs is no doubt driving the concentration of that form factor in new EVs.  Even the venerable “pony car” Mustang label was affixed (horrors!) to Ford’s new electric Mach-e SUV. 

The hottest selling car on the planet is (or soon will be) the all-electric Tesla Model Y SUV/crossover. Consumer tastes, and legacy finance are changing:

The Internet loses a car culture gathering place—DriveTribe will close
Jeremy Clarkson, James May, and Richard Hammond set DriveTribe up in 2016.
1/11/2022
Quote
In a post announcing the shutdown, DriveTribe points to the ongoing chip shortage that has caused the new car market to contract, with an associated reduction in marketing budgets at automakers. "This has made for an incredibly difficult operating environment for businesses like ours which are dependent on advertising," it says.

DriveTribe was created in 2016 by a tech entrepreneur named Ernesto Schmitt, together with car TV personalities Jeremy Clarkson, James May, and Richard Hammond. Hammond sold the concept to Clarkson as "like YouPorn, only with cars." …
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/01/the-internet-loses-a-car-culture-gathering-place-drivetribe-will-close/
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NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #347 on: January 13, 2022, 07:42:30 PM »
In the US, SUV/Trucks is where the incumbents make their profit.  However Crossover is the largest market trend in cars today.

Hence Tesla targetted crossover now and CyberTruck once the Y has saturated the market.

The issue with SUV causing all this pollution is because the incumbents are only transitioning now because they see a risk of losing significant business.

Word to the wise.  They're going to lose that business anyway, they're too late, too slow and far too uncommitted to win that battle.

Tesla will drive the trend.  I'm going to be watching closely to see if Sandy Munro is right and that the Asian manufacturers of EV's hoover up the fragments Tesla leaves behind.

In the next 5 years the transition trend will be set in motion and these stats showing nothing has changed are going to be like yesterdays fish.  Off.

Perhaps Biden will wake up in time to see the finale.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #348 on: January 15, 2022, 04:49:26 PM »
The sedan shape is less aerodynamic, meaning less energy-efficient.

In the shift to electric, the three-box sedan is obsolete: Here’s why
January 12, 2022
Quote
Not everyone who wants an electric vehicle wants an SUV. There’s still life for longer and lower electric cars—especially as highway models that are optimized toward maximizing driving range. 

But fewer of them than you might think will be traditional three-box sedans, with a hood, a cabin, and a trunk. And more of them will have swoopy “kammback” rooflines and hatchbacks. 

Simply put, if you design a car around lower aerodynamic drag, it will be able to cover more highway miles per kilowatt-hour of stored battery energy—which means a lower cost and a lower environmental footprint for the car. The sedan shape is turbulence-prone behind the rear window, but a softer slope and tapered sides near the rear remedy the issue. …
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134715_in-the-shift-to-electric-the-three-box-sedan-is-obsolete-here-s-why
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars Part Deux
« Reply #349 on: February 05, 2022, 10:33:40 AM »
There is one thing that I don't understand about the chips shortage. I agree that all the safety chips can't be replaced easily, same for the ones around the motor, but I guess that these are a minority.
I just read that VW is reducing night works because of shortages.
https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/volkswagen-will-fast-alle-nachtschichten-im-stammwerk-streichen-a-e958526c-544b-4ecf-bcef-d8dfd251a58f