Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: New participant perspective  (Read 400 times)

Rich

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 17
New participant perspective
« on: May 28, 2019, 01:43:53 AM »
I first started lurking on ASIF a few months ago and started participating in a couple of threads a few weeks back.

My interest in coming here was spurred by my concern about AGW and the consequences for some young people that I'm quite fond of.

There's a full range of attitudes about AGW spanning from doomers like MacPherson on end of the spectrum to lukewarmists like Judith Curry or outright deniers on the other.

I'm a warmist struggling not to slip into being a doomer. I see a world we're digging a deeper hole for future generations, not one where we're currently committed to extinction.

Where there is the perception that there is opportunity to improve things, I'm wired to see how I can influence things in that direction.

The problem of AGW and societal response is a very tricky one. Despite the blinking red light warnings of reports like the IPCC SR-1.5, humans are not well equipped to adapt quickly today. Part of it is the fact that that AGW is an unprecedented threat which we haven't evolved to deal with. Another part is political corruption. Yet another part is just apathy.

My little micro-niche in the world of AGW activism is to help people understand the potential for problems coming sooner rather than down the road after they are dead.

Two prominent areas which I think will cause big problems are sea level rise (financial collapse when reality sinks in before the major inundation) and Arctic amplification which is a niche of this community.

It's not a surprise to me that I'm experiencing some friction in an open forum related to AGW. Deniers have an opposing agenda. Doomers have thrown in the towel. Other people might actually accept the scientific consensus but don't want to reminded of the grimness that we're heading for. Numbness is a reasonable choice. 

I've learned a fair amount in my short time here. I can make a crude map of the Arctic from scratch now. I love Aluminum's gifs and Abrupt SLR's wonky research oriented thread / blog. Lotta great stuff here and a bit of crap as well.

I'm not sure what the future holds. If I continue to participate, I'll probably continue to butt heads with people who don't have a similar perspective. Maybe I'll get banned.

There are a lot of "associate" moderators in this community. It weird being told not to post basic questions about melting physics in the melting season thread. With all due respect, I'm just gonna do me until the official moderator tells me that I'm outside the rules.

Peace.












sark

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 163
  • not a scientist
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 65
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 01:50:59 AM »
None of this matters to the physics.  This isn't an advocacy group
I am not a scientist

Rich

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 02:02:07 AM »
None of this matters to the physics.  This isn't an advocacy group

Why do you get out of ASIF? Are you just randomly acquiring knowledge without an ulterior motive? Morbid interest?

Jim Hunt

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4015
    • View Profile
    • The Arctic sea ice Great White Con
  • Liked: 160
  • Likes Given: 20
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 03:38:50 AM »
It weird being told not to post basic questions about melting physics in the melting season thread.

Strange to relate, but "The 2019 melting season" thread is the place to discuss events during the 2019 melting season.

There are a vast number of other threads on the ASIF. If you can't find one where "basic questions about melting physics" are under discussion you could always start a shiny new one.

Does that make sense, or not?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 03:50:06 AM by Jim Hunt »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3692
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 491
  • Likes Given: 1008
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 03:44:14 AM »
I'm not sure what the future holds. If I continue to participate, I'll probably continue to butt heads with people who don't have a similar perspective. Maybe I'll get banned.
I hope you continue participating with your level-headed approach and good questions, and I am sure you will not get banned as it takes certain kinds of characters to achieve that dubious honor.

Quote
There are a lot of "associate" moderators in this community. It weird being told not to post basic questions about melting physics in the melting season thread. With all due respect, I'm just gonna do me until the official moderator tells me that I'm outside the rules.
I apologize as it may have been me who gave that advice. The melting season thread gets crowded fast, and basic melting physics interest everyone thus leading to long discussions potentially derailing the main thread from its mission of tracking current events, so I try to avoid posting lengthy responses there. Others may feel the same, so good questions may sometimes go to waste in that thread or not get the full treatment they deserve.

Tor Bejnar

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2578
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 214
  • Likes Given: 82
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 04:50:09 AM »
...
There are a lot of "associate" moderators in this community. ...
...
This is an off thread post.
...
I suppose it's 'welcome to the club'
 ;)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Rich

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 202
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2019, 05:04:19 AM »
It weird being told not to post basic questions about melting physics in the melting season thread.

Strange to relate, but "The 2019 melting season" thread is the place to discuss events during the 2019 melting season.

Does that make sense, or not?

It makes sense to me that a thread related to current events be restricted to current events yes.

But the melting season thread is chock full of interpretation and forecasting and many other things other than a dutiful account of facts.

This season has had plenty of users sharing their opinion of what those events mean. Some of those opinions are wrong.

It was nice to see Neven step in today and disagree with some of the prevailing "wisdom" that the current situation is really bad.

There seems to be something amiss in the culture of that thread when the temperature required to melt ice is not always an important consideration.

I'm a person who is highly receptive to the gloomy possibilities of AGW. But I need to kick the tires and make sure I understand the fundamentals before I feel free to tell others they need to worry.

You and I have an unfinished question about the melting point of sea ice. You correctly pointed out that salt water freezes at -1.8C.

But sea ice isn't salt water. The salty brine is separated from the molecular lattice when sea water freezes. The substances that melts isn't the same substance that freezes.

If people are not referencing the melting point of ice in their ice forecast, then the thread is flawed.

My pointing that out is not a departure from the mission of the thread. It's an attempt to ground the analysis in a very basic fundamental principle.

There's an inherent limitation related to the availability of precise temperature and other information in what is essentially a wilderness. In the absence of that, there's a lot of noise and guesswork in that thread.







Sleepy

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1202
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 133
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2019, 06:21:41 AM »
Ironically Rich, the melting season thread around May is probably the worst time and place for new members on the ASIF. It takes a while to understand where people are coming from, and for that there are other threads (like Jim wrote above). Add some(times) cryptic brits, language issues with non native English speakers, individual pet theories, arguing (and worse) along with OT commentary while Neven moderates. It's pretty much the same procedure as every year, James!
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

Jim Hunt

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4015
    • View Profile
    • The Arctic sea ice Great White Con
  • Liked: 160
  • Likes Given: 20
Re: New participant perspective
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2019, 10:04:29 AM »
There are a vast number of other threads on the ASIF. If you can't find one where "basic questions about melting physics" are under discussion you could always start a shiny new one.

I couldn't find a suitable old one, so I've started a new one!

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2709.0.html
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein