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Author Topic: Working on (free) Climate Themed Game, advice on a post 4ºC world looks like?  (Read 6475 times)

Archimid

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1. Global warming is not the same as local warming. Global warming of 4C over 100 years has not happenned on the paleo record, not even during the fastest global warming on record, the PETM

2. DO (Dasngaard-Oeschger) Events are a great analogy and example on how abrupt climate change is very likely and it is very destructive.

3. If a DO event happen today, that is, if the average temperature over Greenland rose 8C in 4 decades it would lead to war, famine and an end to human civilization as we know it. European and North American weather will go to s**t. Mass agriculture will fail for several years.

4. No madmax event can be perceived from DO events because there was no human civilization. There were humans, modern humans with all the mental capacity we have today, but they never could settle. I'm sure the rapidly changing climate didn't help. It wasn't until the Holocene climate stability that civilization emerged.

So literally the evidence indicates that during fast local warming episodes the normal human population is somewhere around 1 million individuals.

5. A BOE is much worse than a DO, with much farther reaching consequences.

6. Temperatures in the Arctic region have risen almost 1C a decade for the last 2 decades and accelerating.


The initial climatic repercussion are just starting to be felt, just like during the DO.
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crandles

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3. If a DO event happen today, that is, if the average temperature over Greenland rose 8C in 4 decades it would lead to war, famine and an end to human civilization as we know it. European and North American weather will go to s**t. Mass agriculture will fail for several years.

5. A BOE is much worse than a DO, with much farther reaching consequences.

Says you and which scientists? Refs please.

El Cid

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Arctic Amplification to demonstrate that the changes happen during the same time frame but with lower amplitude the farther we get from the Pole. The Arctic has already warmer 2-6 C during winter vs the 1950-80 baseline while NH midlatitudes warmed 1-2 C, and the global average is up 0,8 C on this timeframe

Archimid

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3. If a DO event happen today, that is, if the average temperature over Greenland rose 8C in 4 decades it would lead to war, famine and an end to human civilization as we know it. European and North American weather will go to s**t. Mass agriculture will fail for several years.

Any scientist who has studied the consequences of DO events on planetary climate patterns calls it abrupt climate change for a good reason. Precipitation changes and temperature changes lead to vegetation and hydrologic changes that would have destroyed modern civilization.

https://www.clim-past.net/15/811/2019/

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Other proxy records throughout the Northern Hemisphere also document the widespread environmental imprint of these rapid warming events. Marine sediment cores (Dokken et al., 2013) and aerosol records from Greenland (Spolaor et al., 2016) show a reduction in perennial sea-ice cover in the Nordic Sea and Arctic Basin, and ocean circulation proxies indicate an increase in the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) (Lynch-Stieglitz, 2017). Records from North America indicate a change in the moisture advection from the Pacific with drier conditions during the warm interstadial periods likely related to changes in atmospheric circulation (Wagner et al., 2010; Asmerom et al., 2010). These circulation changes coincide with increased wildfire activity in North America as clearly imprinted in the Greenland ice-core record (Fischer et al., 2015). Furthermore, records from Eurasia indicate rapid changes in the local ecosystems (Rousseau et al., 2017). In the lower latitudes, speleothem and sediment records from both South America (Wang et al., 2004; Deplazes et al., 2013) and eastern Asia (Wang et al., 2008) indicate a northward displacement of the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) at the time of DO warming (Cheng et al., 2012) resulting in rapid changes in tropical hydroclimate and methane emissions from the tropical wetlands (Baumgartner et al., 2014).

As expected.

I can give you hundreds of links showing that DO events changed precipitation patterns and vegetation significantly all over the world, but they are of too low resolution, hundreds of years.
To asses the impact on civilization we need a resolution of decades. That simply doesn't exist.

So we are left wondering, if there was a sedentary, global civilization, who enjoyed 10,000 years of relative climate stability  and built their infrastructure for the parameters of their stable climate, would it survive climate change at the scale of a DO event?

The answer is a resounding no. Holocene climatic changes that were of much less magnitude than the changes that happenned during DO events have been responsible for the disappearance of entire civilizations, they have cause wars and they have cause famine.  To assume that the much more abrupt changes of an event similar to a DO will not have a negative effect on civilization is absurd. However, it is mentally comforting.


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5. A BOE is much worse than a DO, with much farther reaching consequences.

See my previous response on why a BOE is much worse than a DO event. DO events were largely in part because of changes in arctic sea ice, and they had the protection of icesheets. A DO event would have ended civilization.  A BOE will end civilization and large part of current nature.  Nature will most certainly reassert itself after sometime.  To an observer in the future it will be like nothing ever happened. To the ones that lived the changes it will suck.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Archimid

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Arctic Amplification to demonstrate that the changes happen during the same time frame but with lower amplitude the farther we get from the Pole.

This image demonstrates the changes in temperature, not the changes in climate. Huge difference.

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The Arctic has already warmer 2-6 C during winter vs the 1950-80 baseline while NH midlatitudes warmed 1-2 C, and the global average is up 0,8 C on this timeframe

And the 6th mass extinction is well under way, with dramatic changes in local climate just starting to show up. As it gets warmer, it all accelerates.

I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

crandles

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I can give you hundreds of links showing that DO events changed precipitation patterns and vegetation significantly all over the world, but they are of too low resolution, hundreds of years.
To asses the impact on civilization we need a resolution of decades. That simply doesn't exist.

DO events are certainly dramatic and I expect large falls in food production. Question is how much: A 75% fall or more and I would agree civilisation collapse is likely. However, I haven't seen anything from you to indicate it will be more than say a 25%-50% fall in production. We waste half our food production and if a civilisation threat appeared I don't see why we can't cut the waste to ~3% or so and avoid civilisation collapse. In addition, over a period of a few years there will be some adaptation to new emerging conditions. We would put more effort into growing food in more locations and doing more to protect crops from pretty bad conditions even if we cannot protect from the worst. The worst conditions will get much more common but they still won't be anywhere near everywhere, all the time.


Archimid

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 We would put more effort into growing food in more locations and doing more to protect crops from pretty bad conditions even if we cannot protect from the worst?

Why would be protect our crops? The line is that we shouldn't fear famine because we currently over produce and the changes in climate will be a minor grievance. The problem is for 2100, for brown people, in third world countries.

If the line was, "we better protect our food because climate change might take it away", then maybe. But the line is "Don't worry, I have enough food".

Now, I know that as these events occur more often and with more intensity more people will jump into action and the panorama changes. But the longer it takes, the more damage and the more difficult to come back. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound cure.
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P-maker

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Please remember the following:

1) DO events happened mainly during the last ice age, thus modern analogies are highly uncertain
2) A BOE  - should it happen - will definitely be a game changer, but unprecedented as far as we know
3) The coming influx of moist, warm air through the Bering Sea may be a forewarning of a +4C world

Expect drizzle for weeks, droughts for months and millions of emigrants.


oren

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Folks - VideoGameVet came up with a wonderful (though gloomy) initiative, and you insist on hijacking the thread just to argue between yourselves. Not nice behavior. May I recommend to take this argument elsewhere? Each person may post what they think a +4C scenario will be like, this is just advice for a game, not peer-reviewed science. Whoever wants to argue should post the response in an appropriate thread. VGV will decide the game, science will decide the science.

gerontocrat

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"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Archimid

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If we had a decadal resolution for DO events we would have more accurate picture for VGV's game, but you are right, it is a bit offtopic. Let me try to make amends.

If the point of the game is to raise awareness, then it is important that it has a good basis in reality, even after artistic freedoms are taken.

4C by 2100 will certainly have an apocalyptic feel but it will miss some very important tipping points that will happen on our way to 4C, ( way before 4C), that may provide a better setting for the game than 4C.

For example a BOE.

A BOE will have similar but worse effects than DO events in the short term. As the world transition from a block of ice on the Arctic ocean during summer to "warm" ocean summers there will be abrupt climate disruptions.  However after sometime, perhaps decades, the climate should reach a new normal. That is the 4C world.

The look of the 4C world depends greatly on the human reaction to abrupt climate change. If we go to war with each other then you get a madmax world. Nuclear winter, followed by resumed warming after particles settle and radiation sticks for millenia.

If we decide to fight for survival and fight climate change instead of each other but we fail anyway, 4C won't be that much different than today except that first world countries will live like third world countries and there won't be third world countries.

SO much change will happen that no geopolitics can be predicted. You imagination will likely suffice.

Things that will become a permanent threat to humans that could serve as game mechanics.

 Heat waves: heatwaves when there is no ice in the summer will be like nothing any human has ever seen.  Temperatures will regularly climb in the 50's in the continental Northern hemisphere with 60's going from unthinkable to rare.

A well equipped traveling party caught in such heat wave will be slow down to a crawl for days or weeks. If they don't have water and refuge they are done in a matter of hours, minutes in the case of extremes. If they have plenty of water they can survive as long as they have refuge from the heat, probably somewhere underground or caves.


Monster snow storms:

This is a problem mostly for the northern most NH. A warm arctic ocean during summer means lots of water vapor.  However warm the Arctic gets during summer, it will cool down to below freezing with the long Polar. This snow will bury entire cities after a BOE but, by 4C, remaining humans may adapt.

It won't be terribly cold, but the snow will be unpassable by current means.


Torrential rains:

We've all seen strong rain. But nothing like what is coming in a warmer world. Take the strongest rainfall you have seen and multiply it by 2 or 3. Rivers will from in flat land in a matter of days, making the terrain unpassable until the rains subside.
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El Cid

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Folks - VideoGameVet came up with a wonderful (though gloomy) initiative, and you insist on hijacking the thread just to argue between yourselves.

Oren, you are absolutely right. It is partly my responsibility because although I think that a game like this could raise awareness of the impending dangers, so it could be useful but at the same time I consider it scaremongering. Can we lie for a higher purpose? Should we make a game of a worst case scenario to make the world a better place? I am not sure about the answers.
Nonetheless, this truly is not the thread where we should argue about this. Back to your game VGV!

Archimid

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Quick defense. I'm not lying. I don't believe El Cid is lying either. He simply can't accept the difficult reality of climate change, so his brain plays tricks on him. He ignores evidence and uncertainties in favor of a rosy reality. Can't blame him. This is happening at all levels of climate science and human leadership.

It is very easy write a forum post. But to say the things I say here in a scientific conference or journal is an entirely different thing.  Few do it, and the ones that do are shamed for it.

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TerryM

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Folks - VideoGameVet came up with a wonderful (though gloomy) initiative, and you insist on hijacking the thread just to argue between yourselves. Not nice behavior. May I recommend to take this argument elsewhere? Each person may post what they think a +4C scenario will be like, this is just advice for a game, not peer-reviewed science. Whoever wants to argue should post the response in an appropriate thread. VGV will decide the game, science will decide the science.
I fully concur and see this as a thread where we can let our imaginations soar, even as we keep a tight rein on our emotions.
Personally I've more questions initially than answers:


How long has the climb to 4c taken. Did the players grew up under terrible conditions or was the rug pulled out from under them within a very short span?
How and where will they cross into Canada. Will Canada exist and attempt to guard her borders?
Does the US exist and does it exert any influence over our merry band of travelers?
Is the electrical grid functioning? If not for how long has it been down?
Why Sault Ste. Marie - and are you locked into it as a destination?


I've been thinking of a Grapes of Wrath scenario where climate change and unhelpful officials stand between the travelers and their destination. When they arrive they find conditions much worse than any they'd previously suffered through.
Does this fit with your vision at all?


You've a wonderful idea.
All My Best
Terry

VideoGameVet

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Sorry to have missed some of this, but the game has come along quite a bit.

Here's a website that has my developer blog as well as some images from the game.  I have the "Oregon Trail" part of the game running and am rolling in the visual novel and information aspects of the game.  See more at:

http://TheClimateTrail.com

Some screens:





Thank you.
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kassy

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I grew up with the graphically less accomplished BBC B but that screeny instantly gives me a huge +100 nostalgia bonus.  :)
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

VideoGameVet

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I grew up with the graphically less accomplished BBC B but that screeny instantly gives me a huge +100 nostalgia bonus.  :)

I used an art team I had worked with in mobile games, they came through with some nice art.

Also the music is by "The Fat Man" (famous game music composer).

One advantage of making the game Really Free is that people will contribute at far lower expense.

Although I could have bought a 2nd Brompton folding bike (for my wife) with the expense on this.

More on why I decided to give it away:

https://www.theclimatetrail.com/development-blog/why-am-i-giving-this-game-away-or-can-a-game-make-you-cry
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VideoGameVet

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Video:

"Humans went to the moon on purpose. We destroyed an entire planet by just not caring."

oren

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Looks very interesting.
Some thoughts and ideas:
With all the rain about, a flood should hit from time to time, causing some damage to supplies or health or some delay.
It should be possible at some point to find more sellers of food, not just at the beginning.
It should be possible at some point to find some food in fields or orchards along the way, not just in cities.
The party would probably go to half rations of food when nearing zero, with resulting partial damage.
There should be some risk of attack along the way, with possible damage to supplies or health or morale.
It should be possible to spend a day raising health at the expense of time/food/water.
I thought the sickness passed too quickly.
I thought health improved too quickly when they found food again.

VideoGameVet

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Looks very interesting.
Some thoughts and ideas:
With all the rain about, a flood should hit from time to time, causing some damage to supplies or health or some delay.
It should be possible at some point to find more sellers of food, not just at the beginning.
It should be possible at some point to find some food in fields or orchards along the way, not just in cities.
The party would probably go to half rations of food when nearing zero, with resulting partial damage.
There should be some risk of attack along the way, with possible damage to supplies or health or morale.
It should be possible to spend a day raising health at the expense of time/food/water.
I thought the sickness passed too quickly.
I thought health improved too quickly when they found food again.

Yes, there are additional sellers being added at some cities.  There's a 'rest' option in the game already .  Rationing of water and food is also being added.

The game assumes massive wildfires have decimated the landscape.  So no orchids.  Flood idea is interesting as well, maybe tied to the storms.

There is also a character (feral boy) who plays a role in helping the party out IF they do the right thing.

Yes, I think dysentery should last a few days.  Also if you travel during the storm or heatwave, there will be a possibility of serious harm to one of the party members.

The big part remaining is the beginning, the characters need to meet the player and the 'why' needs to happen.

I've been getting some criticism from the game engine person, who is sort of a denier.  He shared this with me:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/thirty-years-on-how-well-do-global-warming-predictions-stand-up-1529623442

So I blogged about the game's dystopian future:

https://www.theclimatetrail.com/development-blog/propaganda-and-alarmism-could-it-really-get-this-bad
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Working on (free) Climate Themed Game,
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2019, 08:22:10 PM »
You may want to show your denier developer the following:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/06/30-years-after-hansens-testimony/

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The first transient climate projections using GCMs are 30 years old this year, and they have stood up remarkably well.

We’ve looked at the skill in the Hansen et al (1988) (pdf) simulations before (back in 2008), and we said at the time that the simulations were skillful and that differences from observations would be clearer with a decade or two’s more data. Well, another decade has passed!



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The easiest assessment is the crudest. What were the temperature trends predicted and what were the trends observed? The simulations were run in 1984 or so, and that seems a reasonable beginning date for a trend calculation through to the last full year available, 2017. The modeled changes were as follows:
•Scenario A: 0.33±0.03ºC/decade (95% CI)
•Scenario B: 0.28±0.03ºC/decade (95% CI)
•Scenario C: 0.16±0.03ºC/decade (95% CI)

The observed changes 1984-2017 are 0.19±0.03ºC/decade (GISTEMP), or 0.21±0.03ºC/decade (Cowtan and Way), lying between Scenario B and C, and notably smaller than Scenario A. Compared to 10 years ago, the uncertainties on the trends have halved, and so the different scenarios are more clearly distinguished. By this measure it is clear that the scenarios bracketed the reality (as they were designed to), but did not match it exactly. Can we say more by looking at the details of what was in the scenarios more specifically? Yes, we can.

BTW, one of the co-authors of the denial piece in the WSJ was Pat Michaels, who is in the pay of Big Oil specifically to write articles denying climate change.

https://skepticalscience.com/patrick-michaels-history-getting-climate-wrong.html

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Who Is Patrick Michaels, Cato's Contrarian Climate Scientist?

Despite Being One Of A Few Contrarians, Michaels Is Prominent Media Figure. Michaels made about 49 major media appearances from 2007 to July 2011 (13 of them on Fox News), according to a Nexis search. In addition, The Washington Times and Forbes often publish opinion pieces by Michaels and do not disclose his funding from the fossil fuel industry. Yet during that time, Michaels only published four peer-reviewed climate articles. In comparison, 97 percent of the most actively publishing climate researchers agree that "most" of recent warming is manmade, and 84 percent of climate scientists say the public should be told to be worried or "very worried" about climate change. Despite this, USA TODAY, The Washington Post, and CNN all hosted or quoted Patrick Michaels in 2012.

Quote
Michaels Estimated That 40 Percent Of His Funding Comes From Fossil Fuel Industries. In 2010, Patrick Michaels estimated that about 40 percent of his funding comes from fossil fuel industries:


FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: Can I ask you what percentage of your work is funded by the petroleum industry?

PATRICK MICHAELS: I don't know. Forty percent? I don't know. [CNN, Fareed Zakaria GPS, 8/15/10, via Think Progress]

Michaels Initially Did Not Disclose His Publication Was Funded By Coal Industry Association. The Society of Environmental Journalists reported in 2007 that Michaels initially did not disclose that World Climate Report, published by Michaels' PR firm New Hope Environmental Services, was partially funded by the Western Fuels Association, an association of coal mining companies and coal-fired utilities:


Michaels' web publication, World Climate Report, and its skeptical predecessors have been heavily funded by coal and electric utility industries with a large financial stake in preventing regulation of greenhouse emissions. In the 1990s, he published World Climate Review without clearly disclosing in the publication itself that it was funded by the Western Fuels Association - until after journalist Bud Ward brought this to light in the Environment Writer newsletter. [Society of Environmental Journalists, 9/19/07] [Western Fuels Association, accessed 7/8/13]

VideoGameVet

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Hey, thanks for that ... but since he created the game platform (Ren'Py) I don't know if I want to trigger his cognitive dissonance :-)
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VideoGameVet

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I shared it anyway.  Reply was interesting:

That is interesting, to be  honest - though it's interesting that if it wasn't for the three most recent years, we'd consider C to be the right one.
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VideoGameVet

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The first version of the game has been released.

https://deepstategames.itch.io/the-climate-trail-10
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crandles

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feedback:
Spelling errors: Introduction:

greenhouse effect in the atomosphere  should be atmosphere.
Sea level rise flooded most of the costs should be coasts.

In heatwave message should be dangerous not dangerious.

'Not too distant future' and once the ice melted sea level was 80m higher in past tense sounds rather weird, it is going to take centuries before all the ice melts. 100 years since Vietnam is not long enough for all of East Antarctica or even Greenland to have already melted. 4 meters by 2070 and another 75m to come would still fit the 'worse than thought' narrative and be more realistic.

VideoGameVet

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Revision uploaded on the typos.  Thank you.

feedback:
Spelling errors: Introduction:

greenhouse effect in the atomosphere  should be atmosphere.
Sea level rise flooded most of the costs should be coasts.

In heatwave message should be dangerous not dangerious.

'Not too distant future' and once the ice melted sea level was 80m higher in past tense sounds rather weird, it is going to take centuries before all the ice melts. 100 years since Vietnam is not long enough for all of East Antarctica or even Greenland to have already melted. 4 meters by 2070 and another 75m to come would still fit the 'worse than thought' narrative and be more realistic.
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crandles

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My first thought was cities would be first places to run out of food. I suppose some people might hide cache of food then die without a second person knowing about it.

I would have expected people attempting to farm and perhaps others along way who would be willing to trade. Rather than fixed prices, they would vary quite dramatically depending on the weather the location has had, which may be different to the weather travellers experienced. Being able to trade at advantageous prices seems a more realistic route to success than being lucky in finding stuff.

I didn't pay close attention to whether distance travelled each day depended on weight being carried. Did it?

Being allowed or forced to use more water in heatwave to stop heat exhaustion having more effect on health seemed an obvious effect missed (unless it was me that missed it).

Seeds as money. Sounds sensible (valuable and lightweight) but I wonder if there is a problem: How do you tell the difference between seeds well looked after and likely to grow from seeds that will fail to germinate?

VideoGameVet

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Distance traveled is based on food/water rations and morale.  I could factor in weight, but the game is difficult as it is.

I generalized the predictions on sea-level rise (no specific claims), added a scrolling map, and have the current Amazon situation mentioned in the intro.

Latest video:

Free download: http://TheClimateTrail.com

Thoughts on who should know about the game and how to contact them would be appreciated.

Thank you.
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TerryM

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Thoughts on who should know about the game and how to contact them would be appreciated.

Thank you.


It's usually about board games - but the times are changing.


https://mensamindgames.com/


The publicity's mind blowing.
Join the group if possible.


Mensa Canada has on occasion introduced new/unique games at Annual Gatherings.


If you run into problems let me know. (WRT entering the game - not taking the test) I've some sway with the Canadian group, and the wife still has some standing in the US.


Good Luck (it's still needed)
Terry

oren

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I played the game at the 4C level and it was quite frustrating. 9 tries to find food and water in cities, 9 consecutive failures. Ended up dead of course... I think gameplay would be more attractive with a bit more balance on the probabilities.
The game itself was quite captivating, but failure after failure detracted from the experience.

VideoGameVet

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I played the game at the 4C level and it was quite frustrating. 9 tries to find food and water in cities, 9 consecutive failures. Ended up dead of course... I think gameplay would be more attractive with a bit more balance on the probabilities.
The game itself was quite captivating, but failure after failure detracted from the experience.

I can adjust the levels (4, 5, and 6ºC) ... Of course, I complete the 4º level every time, but I'll make a shift and allow the 4º level to be easier.

The key to success in the game is the use of rationing when supplies are limited, reserving 'funds' for the 2nd store and being 'kind.' (I don't want to spoil that moment for others).  Also one has to be strategic about when to obtain less than ideal water.

Thanks for the feedback.
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VideoGameVet

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Thoughts on who should know about the game and how to contact them would be appreciated.

Thank you.


It's usually about board games - but the times are changing.


https://mensamindgames.com/


The publicity's mind blowing.
Join the group if possible.


Mensa Canada has on occasion introduced new/unique games at Annual Gatherings.


If you run into problems let me know. (WRT entering the game - not taking the test) I've some sway with the Canadian group, and the wife still has some standing in the US.


Good Luck (it's still needed)
Terry

Thank you.
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VideoGameVet

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Did a minor revision, ran everything past Grammerly.  Multiple typos caught and fixed.

I also did some playthroughs on level 4ºC, and if you take the hints ... you can get to Canada pretty easily.

Keep at it.
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oren

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Will do!

VideoGameVet

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Now that the "lungs of the planet" myth has been exposed, what would be correct to say about the role of the Amazon in global climate?

That it serves (served?) as a carbon-sink helping to reduce the CO2 levels?

Thanks in advance.
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Richard Rathbone

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Forests are a carbon store. Burning them releases that store into the atmosphere. Allowing them to regrow pulls carbon out of the atmosphere to fill up that store. Leaving a mature forest in place doesn't change CO2 levels either way.

The Amazon forest is extremely important for regional climate. It creates a lot of its own rainfall and if enough of it is chopped down, it will make the climate too dry for the rest to survive and the remainder will go up in smoke whatever people do. The global effect is the CO2 from it all burning, but it will have pretty dire regional effects from drought too.


VideoGameVet

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Forests are a carbon store. Burning them releases that store into the atmosphere. Allowing them to regrow pulls carbon out of the atmosphere to fill up that store. Leaving a mature forest in place doesn't change CO2 levels either way.

The Amazon forest is extremely important for regional climate. It creates a lot of its own rainfall and if enough of it is chopped down, it will make the climate too dry for the rest to survive and the remainder will go up in smoke whatever people do. The global effect is the CO2 from it all burning, but it will have pretty dire regional effects from drought too.

Excellent.  Thank you.
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morganism

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Actually, they found heat stress causes forests to be carbon emitters, even without fires, IIRC. One paper said that if you lose 20% of a forest, it won't come back.

I would think a farmers almanac would be a pretty hot trade item, along with portable sundials.

Govt will only bring supplies to midsize cities, they want to empty out large ones, but most plans i have seen hav Gov deploying supplies to freeways running into mid size cities near Nat Guard deployments. Keeps folks moving, instead of looting and burning out those cities that are still functional.


Archimid

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Forests are a carbon store. Burning them releases that store into the atmosphere. Allowing them to regrow pulls carbon out of the atmosphere to fill up that store. Leaving a mature forest in place doesn't change CO2 levels either way.

So the questions are:

How fast can a forest burn? 
how fast can a mature forest reform?

How to account for the extra CO2 in terms of gross quantity released, how fast it will be reduced and in terms of decreased role in the carbon cycle?

And lastly, how do you guarantee that a forest returns?
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

VideoGameVet

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I managed to get the game running on my iPhone, which is complex (XCODE etc.).

That is good news.
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VideoGameVet

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Version 1.3 released.  Bug fixes and some info from 350.org.

iPhone version in test.

http://TheClimateTrail.com
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VideoGameVet

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Game is in review at Apple.  Android versions to follow.
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gerontocrat

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Forests are a carbon store. Burning them releases that store into the atmosphere. Allowing them to regrow pulls carbon out of the atmosphere to fill up that store. Leaving a mature forest in place doesn't change CO2 levels either way.

So the questions are:

How fast can a forest burn? 
how fast can a mature forest reform?

How to account for the extra CO2 in terms of gross quantity released, how fast it will be reduced and in terms of decreased role in the carbon cycle?

And lastly, how do you guarantee that a forest returns?
Leaving a mature forest in place doesn't change CO2 levels either way. That ain't necessarily so.

There are forests, e.g. in the Congo, Indonesia and I guess part of the Amazon, where dead trees and foliage become part of the soggy forest floor and have created huge carbon reserves in the form of peat**. So that mature forest continues to sequester carbon for many thousands of years. Those forests are also a valuable source of oxygen.

When a forest burns it can, and sometimes does, set the peat alight and it continues to burn indefinitely, often invisible on the surface, returning that carbon to the atmosphere as CO2.

By the way, in reply to the question how fast can a mature forest reform? the answer is sometimes - NEVER.
__________________________________________
**That was the beginning of coal,  carboniferous swamps of giant ferns etc.
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