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Rich

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Prepping for Collapse
« on: July 12, 2019, 02:59:22 AM »
The intention in creating this thread is to share ideas that will promote individual or community survival in the event that environmental degradation lead to a collapse of some important societal functions.

It's more or less a "What if" scenario we in which a future catastrophe is survivable.

I'm not a moderator here, so I can't tell people what to post or not post. I would ask that people not come along and say that prepping in general is a waste of time. I don't want to deligitimize that argument, just work under the assumption that we will be in a situation where preparation matters.

Some basic assumptions I would offer in the future scenario is that there will be interruptions or losses of basic necessities like food or electricity. If you live in a densely populated region and lots of people are competing for the same thing, that's not good.

The vision is that you'll need to build a community that is self reliant and off-grid with a big advantage if you have connectivity and cooperation to similar communities.

Things like food supplies and storage, defense, fuel supplies (for vehicles / equipment) power generation, medical supplies, book libraries, communications ability, etc. all seem like basic things a community needs to have.

Being part of an extended community that has advanced shared capability such as aircraft maintenance and operation or a hospital would obviously be advantageous.

I'm idea mining here. I'm personally kinda clueless about survivalism, but I have a hunch that I need to adapt.

DrTskoul

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2019, 03:02:33 AM »
If we reach that point, the survival of the most barbarian is assured...

bbr2314

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2019, 03:07:26 AM »
If society truly collapsed, all the nuclear reactors would meltdown and the Northern Hemisphere would be uninhabitable within weeks, and the Southern Hemisphere would probably follow within a few months. So you would probably just be dead.

sidd

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2019, 05:54:59 AM »
Simultaneous meltdown of all reactors would not come close to killing all humanity in either hemisphere. Catastrophe, yes. Extinction, far from it.

sidd

bbr2314

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2019, 06:37:58 AM »
Simultaneous meltdown of all reactors would not come close to killing all humanity in either hemisphere. Catastrophe, yes. Extinction, far from it.

sidd
IDK. There are 100s and 100s of reactors... gradual meltdowns could actually be worse than simultaneous.

nanning

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2019, 07:12:33 AM »
The intention in creating this thread is to share ideas that will promote individual or community survival
<snippage>

Individualism, consumerism and TV/social media has killed of any real community-sense in my view (especially in the 'western world').
If an individual has a bit of money, a bit of land/garden and her/his own house it is possible to be somewhat independent.

What are the options of the majority of the people, the poor, who are not in this position of ownership and affluence? I am poor and people like me don't have money except for the basics. Just survival. I think it is important and just to take the silent invisible majority in consideration. And the infirm.

A good survival trait would be having old fashioned peasant skills & tools, horses and morality etc. Move to lower tech and you'll be less vulnerable. Technological progress has been the road to destruction obviously (global resource hunger).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2019, 07:29:57 AM »
You will need some guns and ammo, a garden, and some gold and silver could be usefull. And pray they don't ruin all sources of water before it happens. The guns and ammo you will need, because no matter how much you prep, if you can not defend it. Than somebody els will take it.

wili

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2019, 07:39:52 AM »
Why, exactly, do you want to survive?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Neven

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2019, 08:17:08 AM »
Why, exactly, do you want to survive?

Fear of death.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Alison

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2019, 10:00:50 AM »


El Cid

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2019, 10:22:58 AM »
If civilization collapses - which I do not believe - there is no amount of prepping that will save your ass. In that case the military and armed groups take over, and however you prepare, (garden, animals, weapons, clean watersource etc) all will be taken away from you.

Tony Mcleod

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2019, 10:27:45 AM »
If civilization collapses - which I do not believe - there is no amount of prepping that will save your ass. In that case the military and armed groups take over, and however you prepare, (garden, animals, weapons, clean watersource etc) all will be taken away from you.

Not so fast. Is the miltary going to be on horseback?

ArcticMelt2

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2019, 10:30:35 AM »
If civilization collapses - which I do not believe - there is no amount of prepping that will save your ass. In that case the military and armed groups take over, and however you prepare, (garden, animals, weapons, clean watersource etc) all will be taken away from you.

This is true only for earthly asylum. But if you build a colony on Mars, the problem of the military and marauders disappears. Elon Musk and SpaceX develop exactly this direction.

Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2019, 11:27:13 AM »
If civilization collapses - which I do not believe - there is no amount of prepping that will save your ass. In that case the military and armed groups take over, and however you prepare, (garden, animals, weapons, clean watersource etc) all will be taken away from you.
   

And how do you know at wich level they will be able to organise, these armed groups and the military ?

El Cid

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2019, 11:27:41 AM »
If civilization collapses - which I do not believe - there is no amount of prepping that will save your ass. In that case the military and armed groups take over, and however you prepare, (garden, animals, weapons, clean watersource etc) all will be taken away from you.

Not so fast. Is the miltary going to be on horseback?

No, they have  huge reserves of gasoline. They will ride tanks. And even without gas, how will you resist a heavy infantry platoon?

All we can do is try to be more and more sustainable NOW and not preparing for some imagined MadMaxWorld which we will not survive anyway

El Cid

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2019, 11:29:01 AM »
If civilization collapses - which I do not believe - there is no amount of prepping that will save your ass. In that case the military and armed groups take over, and however you prepare, (garden, animals, weapons, clean watersource etc) all will be taken away from you.
   

And how do you know at wich level they will be able to organise, these armed groups and the military ?

I don't need to know that. 20 machineguns against my family (even if all of us are armed). What chance would we have???

Forget MadMax, do something for the future NOW

Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2019, 11:57:27 AM »
El Cid, it's not just your family. If they are able to organise, if they leave there family behind to go to the barracks. They will meet hundreds of families. Maybe they run out of bullets after the 10th family. Who will know ? Most people will only be able to do simple things. And going to Mars is not one of them.

gerontocrat

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2019, 12:40:24 PM »
If civilization collapses - which I do not believe - there is no amount of prepping that will save your ass. In that case the military and armed groups take over, and however you prepare, (garden, animals, weapons, clean watersource etc) all will be taken away from you.
   

And how do you know at wich level they will be able to organise, these armed groups and the military ?
I know because I am organising one. Gerontocrat rules, OK. Geddit?
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Archimid

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2019, 12:46:23 PM »
Let's say that you are in a group and a bear attacks your group.  To escape, you don't have to outrun the bear, only the slowest person in the group.

It is the same with collpase, specially in the first world. All food will not disappear over night, there will be food but less food. Same with water. Same with fuel.

So what you need is:

1. Water: If money was no object I would buy an Solar Atmospheric water generator.  This way as long as the sun comes out, you will have drinking water. Else, water reserves will do for a while but you need to fins a way to replenish them. I can collect and store rainwater for this. 

2. Energy: You need to become energy independent, or as close to it as possible. Solar panels and batteries will keep your refrigerator powered and your lights on for decades, although if you use lights at night, you should cover the windows, or else you become a target.

3. Food: Always keep a few months worth of food in your home. Start a home garden with high calorie plants. Raise chickens. It will be incredibly hard to grow enough food to feed yourself year round, but any calorie that you can grow makes you a bit faster. Less food that you have to acquire.

4. Security. You need a weapon and ammo. You must have a plan to secure your perimeter. Keep your hoard a secret.

5. Neighbor relations: Your neighbor will either help you protect your stuff or try to take it away.  You must sort that out before collapse picks up speed.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Rich

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2019, 12:51:58 PM »
I guess this is a hard thread to start and hope that people don't get carried away by going uber extreme.

Let's try and keep it simple and start with a scenario where you assume you can defend yourself.

Imagine a world that shrinks to 1B people. Who survives and why?

dnem

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2019, 01:22:07 PM »
Kinda re-inventing the wheel here Rich.  There is tons of content on the web about prepping. As someone else mentioned, Reddit is chockablock full of it.  http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/ is pretty entertaining.

If the food stores empty out and can't be restocked, it's gonna sort out into who is armed and who is not pretty fast.  If the grid goes down for many months, there will be multiple nuclear meltdowns.  Sounds like fun, huh?




nanning

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2019, 02:57:21 PM »


What do you do when 'Gerontocrat' comes by with his merry men?
I'd say most people cannot afford to do those things you propose. What will they do?

How would you describe this post-collapse world? Do you find it worth living? Will schools still function? Shops? Moneysystem? It'll only get worse and then of course, the 'new weather' approaching fast.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

ArcticMelt2

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2019, 03:58:18 PM »
Most people will only be able to do simple things. And going to Mars is not one of them.

With computers, managing a Martian colony will be very easy. Now, even the world's libraries with millions of books easily fit on a simple hard disk.

The main problem is to save the colony of surviving marauders with weapons. Remember the story, all the tombs of great people (Faron, Genghis Khan, Chinese Emperors) with jewels were later looted. Therefore, on Earth it is impossible to create a safe colony of several thousand people. And on Mars is possible.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 04:07:24 PM by ArcticMelt2 »

Human Habitat Index

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2019, 05:03:42 PM »
If industrial production stops, the subsequent increase of 0.5c gat due to the loss of the aerosol masking effect will prove terminal.

To unleash 50 years of  modern warming in as little as 6 weeks would set off hyper feedbacks leading to things like Canfield oceans.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

Rich

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2019, 05:09:42 PM »


How would you describe this post-collapse world? Do you find it worth living? Will schools still function? Shops? Moneysystem? It'll only get worse and then of course, the 'new weather' approaching fast.

I'm imagining significant population attrition. Poor countries in hot arid regions will be decimated. If a country like India fails, global supply chains will be irreparably damaged and martial law will be declared in many countries to maintain order.

Federal governments will still operate and manage a triage style operation to salvage what they can. Risk management will be key. Grid resources to ensure no nuclear meltdowns will be a top priority if they can be avoided at all.

The feds, military will national guard commandeer and ration the food supply from farm to table.

Proactive people with resources will retreat to remote bunkers with necessary resources and weapons.

Urban food shortages may be quickly resolved by either civilian conflict or starvation. After periods of regional chaos, some kind of equilibrium will settle in. Armed gangs might be able to maintain some local supremacy, but they aren't going to move across significant open territory as long as the military is functional. The firepower and intelligence and advantage is too great.

The government and military will have every interest in maintaining a large functional population for strategic international advantage.

Any border crises at a place like the US / Mexico border will be handled with lethal force. If we have millions of people trying to stream north, it could be a bloodbath.

US command will probably kindly explain to Canadian leadership that they are temporarily subordinate to US needs.

Some regions with limited utility and high maintenance costs may be abandoned. A city like Las Vegas might be shuttered for example as a water / energy hog with no more tourism. South Florida may be abandoned due to Flooding along with New Orleans.

Refugee / work camps will become common. People will be out to work doing all kinds of work from agriculture to levee repair.

Perhaps places in Africa / Middle East / India lose major chunks of population while the US loses half and Canada loses only 20% in a few years. Europe and the rest of Asia lose half as well. You've got 3.5B people.

Climate change continues to progress and sundry environmental / disease outbreaks continue to whittle the population down for another couple of decades until we're down to 1B people concentrated in the N. Hemisphere. Somehow nuclear war is avoided  At this point climate stabilizes and CO2 starts to come down with tech, afforestation and renewables.

You still have cities, hospitals, universities, telecommunications and a sufficient food supply. The environment is a mess but you have pockets of salvageable territory.

It's time to start over.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2019, 05:18:36 PM »
I guess if anyone around here is a preper it's me. My primary goal is experimenting with low energy food production and an effort to depend as little as I can on fossil fuel energy supplies. These goals are mostly an effort to live a life with a smaller carbon footprint but retirement and controlling future expenses by purchasing solar panels, batteries, and energy supplies while I can afford to also play a part in my planning. Paying off the farm would be nice also but honestly Nanning has a real point about affordability of off grid solutions. A farm, solar, batteries, wells, septic, and those things that allow a modern lifestyle unplugged from the grid are expensive, way over a million $.
 I really think the most educational experience for me  was the challenge of feeding my wife and I without going to the store, first for one month and then for a three month period. Anyone can take on this challenge and after you get through it you will either gain some confidence in your abilities to forage and get by on stored dry goods , or give up on self sufficiency  Preparing for an extended period without a store required changing the food I grew in the garden to crops that could be dried and stashed away. Storing wild foods , fishing, growing chickens and maybe a pig or two , planting fruit trees, canning and plant identification are all skills to perfect before TSHTF.
 They are two different things , living a modern lifestyle with off grid renewable energy or preparing for almost zero energy. Living in a mild climate will save lots of effort chopping wood to keep warm . Keeping some iodine drops around and someplace to hole up with a clean water supply are probably all you need in a worst case scenario if you can forage. Knowledge will at that point be far more important than guns or solar panels. And yes Because, I would still want to live .
 
 
 
 

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2019, 05:31:15 PM »
I know because I am organising one. Gerontocrat rules, OK. Geddit?

How do i join this group? Sounds OK.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2019, 05:33:40 PM »

Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2019, 06:14:05 PM »
Most people will only be able to do simple things. And going to Mars is not one of them.

With computers, managing a Martian colony will be very easy. Now, even the world's libraries with millions of books easily fit on a simple hard disk.

The main problem is to save the colony of surviving marauders with weapons. Remember the story, all the tombs of great people (Faron, Genghis Khan, Chinese Emperors) with jewels were later looted. Therefore, on Earth it is impossible to create a safe colony of several thousand people. And on Mars is possible.


Does Mars has an atmosphere ? And if it would be so easy, than why don't they just manage Earth first .Because if you can create the conditions to create an atmosphere on Mars . Than why don't they create something like that to manage the temperature on this planet. Than global warming is finished.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2019, 06:45:19 PM »
Does Mars has an atmosphere ? And if it would be so easy, than why don't they just manage Earth first .Because if you can create the conditions to create an atmosphere on Mars . Than why don't they create something like that to manage the temperature on this planet. Than global warming is finished.

There is a thin atmosphere on Mars. The problem is there is not enough oxygen. By introducing plants (theoretically) you could have it.


On earth, there aren't enough trees to suck the CO2 out of the air to fight climate change.

ArcticMelt2

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2019, 07:12:00 PM »
Most people will only be able to do simple things. And going to Mars is not one of them.

With computers, managing a Martian colony will be very easy. Now, even the world's libraries with millions of books easily fit on a simple hard disk.

The main problem is to save the colony of surviving marauders with weapons. Remember the story, all the tombs of great people (Faron, Genghis Khan, Chinese Emperors) with jewels were later looted. Therefore, on Earth it is impossible to create a safe colony of several thousand people. And on Mars is possible.


Does Mars has an atmosphere ? And if it would be so easy, than why don't they just manage Earth first .Because if you can create the conditions to create an atmosphere on Mars . Than why don't they create something like that to manage the temperature on this planet. Than global warming is finished.

Why make the atmosphere for the entire planet? Enough to make the atmosphere in the underground Martian refuge. In it, the colonists will not get any marauders.

Elon Mask is committed to this very concept.

By the way, the first flights of the huge rocket are nearing for the creation of a Martian colony.

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-starhopper-hover-test-date/

Quote
Eric Ralph
ByEric RalphPosted on July 11, 2019
SpaceX CEO Elon Musk announced via Twitter that Starhopper’s first untethered hover tests – flying as high as ~20 meters (65 ft) – could be attempted as early as Tuesday, July 16th.

SpaceX engineers and technicians have been working around the clock the last several months to prepare Starhopper for flight and – even more importantly – prepare the company’s next-gen Raptor engine to ensure it is reliable enough to risk losing the Hopper in flight. Neither task is a small challenge, with both pushing SpaceX’s workforce into new and (partially) unfamiliar territory, ranging from Starhopper’s use of steel propellant tanks to Raptor’s adoption of liquid methane and oxygen instead of the kerosene/oxygen or hydrazine SpaceX’s workforce is familiar with

Back in April 2019, SpaceX – having installed Raptor SN02 roughly two weeks prior – static fired Starhopper for the first time ever, simultaneously lifting the massive craft a few inches off the ground as it strained against its tethers. Three and a half months later, SpaceX engineers appear to have finally solved a mechanical resonance (vibration) issue that plagued all Raptors that came before SN06, forcing aborts, limiting test length, and even destroying or damaging engines beyond repair.

As previously discussed on Teslarati, Starhopper’s first true flight tests have been a long time coming. 9m (30 ft) in diameter and perhaps 25m (80 ft) tall, Starhopper is an extremely unusual and visually bizarre test article, effectively acting like a (vaguely) mobile Raptor test stand and a full-fidelity way for SpaceX’s aluminum-focused welding and fabrication crews to gain experience building a moderately functional stainless steel rocket.

Last month, there was some hope that Raptor SN05 would be capable of supporting Starhopper’s first hover tests as early as mid-to-late June, but it’s understood that the vibrational issue described above by Musk damaged the engine during one of its final acceptance tests, delaying Starhopper testing by several weeks. Had that resonance issue been solved months ago, it’s probable that Raptor SN02 could have taken Starhopper directly from its first static fires to untethered flight operations in April.

According to CEO Elon Musk, SpaceX’s Raptor manufacturing team is rapidly moving from a development-focused line to something more like mass-production. Once the design has been more thoroughly pinned down, the production ramp could max out with up to two Raptor engines completed daily, averaging out to an annual production rate of an incredible ~500 engines.

Additionally, Musk tacitly acknowledged that SpaceX’s recent development Raptors likely cost around $2M apiece, but the final mass-production cost could drop as low as $200,000 per engine, almost unfathomable for such a high-performance, cutting-edge engine.

For the time being, SpaceX will be focused on wringing out any subtler design flaws and general bugs in Raptor as the engines are gradually produced and tested at increasing volumes. This includes hop/hover tests like those Starhopper is scheduled to attempt next Tuesday, as well as even wilder ~20-km suborbital flight tests that could come once one or both of SpaceX’s “orbital” Starship prototypes are fully integrated.

El Cid

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2019, 07:16:56 PM »
I guess if anyone around here is a preper it's me...I really think the most educational experience for me  was the challenge of feeding my wife and I without going to the store, first for one month and then for a three month period. Anyone can take on this challenge and after you get through it you will either gain some confidence in your abilities to forage and get by on stored dry goods , or give up on self sufficiency

Well Bruce, I myself never tried your challange but grow potatoes, sweetpotatoes, carrots, apples, nuts garlic, onions. They all keep very well for months and (theoretically) should be enough in themselves if push comes to shove. My grandpa & family lived on potatoes+onions+ goat's milk and apples for a year during WW2 and they did not lose weight or had any other problems by his account. So even without foraging I would think it is manageable, especially if you have some chicken and some goats/sheep.

gerontocrat

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2019, 07:41:10 PM »
I guess if anyone around here is a preper it's me...I really think the most educational experience for me  was the challenge of feeding my wife and I without going to the store, first for one month and then for a three month period. Anyone can take on this challenge and after you get through it you will either gain some confidence in your abilities to forage and get by on stored dry goods , or give up on self sufficiency

Well Bruce, I myself never tried your challange but grow potatoes, sweetpotatoes, carrots, apples, nuts garlic, onions. They all keep very well for months and (theoretically) should be enough in themselves if push comes to shove. My grandpa & family lived on potatoes+onions+ goat's milk and apples for a year during WW2 and they did not lose weight or had any other problems by his account. So even without foraging I would think it is manageable, especially if you have some chicken and some goats/sheep.
City-dwellers in apartment blocks are stuffed, then, as your smallholdings are not going to grow a surplus. You will need a community defence force when the starving city dwellers scour the land for sustenance.

I did work in one African country where the rains failed one year and the maize crop was almost zero in parts of the country. The army units based in the bush were the biggest problem - raiding villages in search of hidden emergency stores. (Fortunately the next year the rains were good).
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2019, 07:43:10 PM »
Arcticmelt, Is it not better to buy a gun. Than to hide in your grave on Mars. Because that story has something very sad.

Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2019, 07:47:49 PM »
Gerontocrat, if you read these stories about the army in Northern Nigeria. I think they are trained by a foreign force. They use the same tactics as these islamist terrorists. As soon as there are shortages, there will be no government army anymore. Just guys that try to safe their own ass.

ArcticMelt2

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2019, 07:48:39 PM »
Arcticmelt, Is it not better to buy a gun. Than to hide in your grave on Mars. Because that story has something very sad.

Your choice with a gun is even sadder. What can you do with a gun against hungry soldiers in tanks with guns. It resembles a scene from the movie:



On Earth, you physically can not create a safe haven, inaccessible to robbers.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2019, 07:59:20 PM »
That's the problems with guns.

Someone always has a bigger one.

Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2019, 08:03:24 PM »
The story you are telling is about a few 1000 people. So why are you telling it anyway ? Does Alan wants to get more printed money in his pocket. Than he can better move to another solar stelsel. Because all planets in this solar stelsel will have the same fate. When the sun dies, they are all finished. Or is he going to build a new sun ?

gerontocrat

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2019, 08:04:39 PM »
That's the problems with guns.

Someone always has a bigger one.
But if you can hang on until they are dead or nearly dead of hunger and disease....

you inherit the world. Lucky you.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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Alexander555

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2019, 08:17:40 PM »
It's not about the guns itself. If people want to kill eachother. Than they will kill eachother. Just look to Ruanda, they killed 10 % of the population in just a few months, most of them in just a few weeks. And they only had knifes and sticks. In Syria they have all modern weapons from rockets to tanks, and after 8 years of shooting and bombarding 3 % of the population died. Ruanda is or was a more isolated country with not that much recources and a high population density.

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2019, 08:19:57 PM »

ritter

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2019, 10:33:13 PM »

I'm imagining significant population attrition.

[snip]

It's time to start over.

Pretty much nailed it.  :(

vox_mundi

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2019, 11:46:39 PM »

   

I'm imagining significant population attrition.

[snip]

It's time to start over.

Pretty much nailed it.  :(
...
Dr. Strangelove: Sir! I have a plan... I would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy...heh, heh...at the bottom of ah...some of our deeper mineshafts. Radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep, and in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in dwelling space could easily be provided.
President Muffley: How long would you have to stay down there?
Dr. Strangelove: Well let's see now ah...cobalt thorium G....Radioactive halflife of uh,...I would think that uh... possibly uh... one hundred years.
President Muffley: You mean, people could actually stay down there for a hundred years?
Dr. Strangelove: It would not be difficult, Mein Führer! Nuclear reactors could, heh...I'm sorry, Mr. President. Nuclear reactors could provide power almost indefinitely. Greenhouses could maintain plant life. Animals could be bred and slaughtered. A quick survey would have to be made of all the available mine sites in the country, but I would guess that dwelling space for several hundred thousands of our people could easily be provided.
Muffley: Well, I, I would hate to have to decide...who stays up and...who goes down.
Dr. Strangelove: Well, that would not be necessary, Mr. President. It could easily be accomplished with a computer. And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross-section of necessary skills. Of course, it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. Ha, ha. But ah, with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present Gross National Product within say, twenty years.
Muffley: But look here doctor, wouldn't this nucleus of survivors be so grief-stricken and anguished that they'd, well, envy the dead and not want to go on living?
Dr. Strangelove: No, sir...excuse me...When they go down into the mine, everyone would still be alive. There would be no shocking memories, and the prevailing emotion will be one of nostalgia for those left behind, combined with a spirit of bold curiosity for the adventure ahead! [involuntarily gives the Nazi salute and forces it down with his other hand]Ahhh!
General Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?
Dr. Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious...service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.
Russian Ambassador: I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor.

----------------

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Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Paddy

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2019, 12:24:17 AM »
My prepping has been pretty low key, and as much for the economic damage of Brexit as anything else. But having some staples in reserve and a bit of capacity to provide for yourself gives a certain feeling of security, whether real or imagined.

petm

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2019, 12:34:48 AM »
I'm not having kids, for one thing.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2019, 04:14:21 AM »
If society truly collapsed, all the nuclear reactors would meltdown and the Northern Hemisphere would be uninhabitable within weeks, and the Southern Hemisphere would probably follow within a few months. So you would probably just be dead.

Chernobyl melted down and 20 km away, things never become uninhabitable. Japan got nuked twice and had a recent meltdown and the island densely populated. The world is large, so even 400 meltdowns down destroy all life.
big time oops

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2019, 12:07:49 PM »
What do you do when 'Gerontocrat' comes by with his merry men?

I give him all my spreadsheets.  ;)
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2019, 12:33:25 PM »
Chernobyl melted down and 20 km away, things never become uninhabitable. Japan got nuked twice and had a recent meltdown and the island densely populated. The world is large, so even 400 meltdowns down destroy all life.

Chernobyl killed ~100k people.

Times 400 that's 40 million deaths.

But the death toll in Chernobyl was so 'low' because they managed to seal it.

And there your theory goes bust. When you have nukes all over the world constantly leaking, it's rather sooner than later before the last one dies painfully.

gerontocrat

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2019, 01:44:46 PM »
What do you do when 'Gerontocrat' comes by with his merry men?

I give him all my spreadsheets.  ;)
Sorry, Neven, but you can't eat spreadsheets...........
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Neven

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Re: Prepping for Collapse
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2019, 02:16:31 PM »
What do you do when 'Gerontocrat' comes by with his merry men?

I give him all my spreadsheets.  ;)
Sorry, Neven, but you can't eat spreadsheets...........

Do you have any stats to corroborate this? If not, you should prepare them.
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