Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Forum Decorum  (Read 135091 times)

Bruce Steele

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1836
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 469
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1350 on: August 28, 2020, 03:11:15 AM »
 There are different reasons we are here maybe. Some people have very good graphic skills and present data in ways that make looking at each melting season as both a new season and one we can compare to the past. There are others interested in specific research or core areas of interest and usually only comment in certain threads or related threads. But there are also plenty of us more generally interested I assume.
 I have a history here that maybe could be summarized as food related. So if someone was focused on glaciers or Antarctica or the maths I might not even exist.
 I think others try to shape all the data coming at them through lenses that needs agree with their preconceived notion of how things are . For these individuals the argument needs fit their personal narrative. And that which doesn’t , needs to be fought back. Some of these people seem to take much interest in argument. So when someone who has some deeply held theory that meets lots of pushback from other members they can look harder and harder for arguments that support their theory , and cherry pick, and maybe try slander, or even eventually try conspiracy narratives.  It is hard to ignore.
 So how does the issue resolve if two people with opposed theory's are willing to pursue familiar tactics of cherry picking, slander, and conspiracy ?  And that is where the larger group reaches in to squash all the dissidence. It is an endless loop if there is no control at all so the group intervenes. And maybe some people are good at monitoring the peace and not much else. Some people seem wise and humble and can hold their own on many threads and the rest of us allow some moderation, for the common good. Yes maybe outside the box thinking gets muted somewhat but everyone else gets to read on lots of subjects outside their expertise and have some confidence that arguments are balanced and persuasive without people getting belligerent. Some people are fair about managing a diverse group
and thank god for that.
 Call it my theory of civil will, practiced by group that can pull it off for awhile till chaos again reigns.   
 

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6174
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2236
  • Likes Given: 1875
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1351 on: August 28, 2020, 03:26:47 AM »
bbr, I recommend reporting to mod and waiting a bit before going for the decorum thread with guns blazing.
In this case some criticism against use of 10-day forecasts was justified but all the rest was not, which is why I responded to your mod report with an edit of the reported post and with a follow-up post. As I sometimes sleep a couple of hours, this can't always be immediate.
Going all-out attack on people who criticize you will not necessarily reduce future criticism. Take it easy.

bbr2315

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 113
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1352 on: August 28, 2020, 03:27:34 AM »
bbr, I recommend reporting to mod and waiting a bit before going for the decorum thread with guns blazing.
In this case some criticism against use of 10-day forecasts was justified but all the rest was not, which is why I responded to your mod report with an edit of the reported post and with a follow-up post. As I sometimes sleep a couple of hours, this can't always be immediate.
Going all-out attack on people who criticize you will not necessarily reduce future criticism. Take it easy.
Your points are fair and noted, thank you.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5653
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 764
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1353 on: August 28, 2020, 03:48:41 AM »
Re: "So how does the issue resolve if two people with opposed theory's are willing to pursue familiar tactics of cherry picking, slander, and conspiracy ?  "

Tell em to get a room ? take it offline from this forum, thru email or otherwise.

But then, on the few, mostly very technical forums, i moderated over the decades, i was always a pretty unforgiving moderator. On this wide-ranging forum, that style would not go down well except perhaps in a few threads.

sidd

Rodius

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 229
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1354 on: August 28, 2020, 03:59:18 AM »
Why is it that there are dozens of posters who have hard-ons for my posts and can recite all of my "pet theories" etc

Yet I can't remember a single contribution of any of them or even their names etc most of the time?

It is like there is a troupe of gypsies who would suck and steal all the thoughts and information from this place until there is nothing left, and then they would move on from the vacant husk, because they were never here to engage constructively to begin with.

Is it really surprising that seems to be what is now happening?

That entire comment speaks volumes about how much thought you put into what others say.... and you talk about people living in their bubbles.

jens

  • New ice
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 57
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1355 on: August 28, 2020, 12:07:55 PM »

 So how does the issue resolve if two people with opposed theory's are willing to pursue familiar tactics of cherry picking, slander, and conspiracy ? 

War happens.

Well, it's a bit of a school fight. Two kids fight, blaming each other for starting the fight.

In the end you have to recognize and acknowledge that there are bigger and more important things in the world to pay your attention to, than endless arguing, even if you feel you yourself are completely on the right side.

"Convincing" other people to think like you isn't the best goal you can have in your life. Live your own life, and let others live their own whatever they think. Your time and energy is needed elsewhere.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2275
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 254
  • Likes Given: 19386
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1356 on: August 28, 2020, 04:45:52 PM »
Simple. See your fellow forum members as friends!

War should not happen and not be acceptable.

We should spring into action everytime some poster writes something that's not nice, that's insulting, judgemental or other, you catch my drift. Don't let it stand. Perhaps even more important than falsehoods/cherry picking/denial because it is the face of our group; our unity, trust and respect, our cohesion and peace.

You could see it as 'gardening'.


edit: added unity,trust,respect,cohesion,peace
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 06:32:13 PM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1534
  • None but our self can free our minds
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 485
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1357 on: September 01, 2020, 07:17:19 PM »
It looks like we just lost Igs...  :'(
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2275
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 254
  • Likes Given: 19386
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1358 on: September 02, 2020, 06:47:54 AM »
Indeed another loss, another good one  :'(
And he deleted his account so likely was upset.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3359
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 564
  • Likes Given: 264
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1359 on: September 02, 2020, 12:50:54 PM »
I nearly left when I first came here, but even then I was not thinking of deleting my account.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7750
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1125
  • Likes Given: 512
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1360 on: September 02, 2020, 10:02:06 PM »
It's the second time igs has done this. He used to post as magnamentis, deleted his profile, and then came back. So, it seems valuable members can also return!
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3359
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 564
  • Likes Given: 264
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1361 on: September 03, 2020, 12:08:38 AM »
If I were ever to do that I'd come back as trm1958, my initials and birthyear.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Niall Dollard

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 748
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 288
  • Likes Given: 67
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1362 on: September 03, 2020, 12:32:43 AM »
'bbr2315's nightmare for Arctic comes true'


Bbr,

Could do without the illeism.

bbr2315

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 113
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1363 on: September 03, 2020, 12:38:27 AM »
'bbr2315's nightmare for Arctic comes true'


Bbr,

Could do without the illeism.
Removed!  :)

gandul

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 656
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1364 on: September 04, 2020, 01:04:13 PM »
Oren:
I was being antagonistic to the position of A-Team, not the person, since he uses his expertise in the area to construct “express science” pictures of very alarmist scenarios. Many posters swallow his paintings as if it was ex cathedra truth. It is not. He complains of slow science sometimes (and of bothersome contributors, and of a thousand things more, he’s basically a “victim”) but the truth is, slow science is rigorous and true and at the end will save our skin, all the noise here will not, including his beautiful constructions.

I hoped you would have not touched my post, but it’s ok.

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6174
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2236
  • Likes Given: 1875
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1365 on: September 04, 2020, 02:00:57 PM »
Here is another A-Team related complaint which I have removed from the Mosaic thread.
Quote from: binntho
Oren, when you snip, do you keep the snips? I feel severely affronted here, with my text being manipulated like this, and of course, there is no copy.  So if you have a copy, you can send it to me and I'll clean it and re-post it.

EDIT: To be absolutely clear, I am a big admirer of A-Team and find his posts always worth reading. He does however have a very arrogant tendency to tersely state the facts as he sees them and rarely deigns to defend his sweeping statements.

Now that the Moderator has become a public-relations officer for A-Team, translating and expostulating on his terse statements and snipping all criticisms, the value of A-Team's contributions and his reputation both stand in danger of decline.

I do not have a copy of the snips, and I apologize that you feel affronted, however I was using my best judgement on what was antagonistic (the communism part or whatever it was) and what was  to the point.

Gandul, and binntho, and whoever feels I am mistreating - I have no issue with people challenging A-Team's assertions. He is highly knowledgeable but not always correct - no one is. He says black, feel free to say it's white. I do have issue though with people calling him arrogant and otherwise using antagonistic language. Say it's white, don't say "I think you are an arrogant fool for saying black". Don't say "I challenge you to defend yourself", say "I think you are wrong." He may choose to explain the black or agree with white or make no response, up to him. Many of us here have some ego, some arrogance, some over-confidence. If all started pointing out the other party`s flaws, it would escalate quickly and many more would leave.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1752
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 356
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1366 on: September 04, 2020, 02:28:21 PM »
  If all started pointing out the other party`s flaws, it would escalate quickly and many more would leave.

Well said.  Even oblique ad hominems should be removed, unapologetically.  We're here to discuss things, not each other.

blu_ice

  • NewMembers
  • New ice
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1367 on: September 17, 2020, 08:26:06 AM »
My apologies to the good members of this forum for my sudden departure earlier this season. I am sorry for leaving without saying anything. That is not good manners.

I'm not going to dig deeper to the reasons of my exit. I just want to say people delete their accounts when leaving because that's the only way to actually leave. A temporary ban or lockout would be great in that respect.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2275
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 254
  • Likes Given: 19386
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1368 on: September 17, 2020, 11:34:11 AM »
Welcome back blu_ice :).

In my view it is possible to leave without deleting ones account: Just stop posting.
Perhaps deleting is a form of self-help in ones discipline; to not be able to post anymore.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6174
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2236
  • Likes Given: 1875
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1369 on: September 17, 2020, 01:40:47 PM »
Welcome back blu_ice !

Niall Dollard

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 748
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 288
  • Likes Given: 67
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1370 on: September 17, 2020, 11:44:32 PM »
Please continue posting in the melting season thread for a couple of days.

Never understand what the biannual giddiness is when we change from melting to freezing threads and vice versa. There should be allowance/time period for both threads to co-exist.

If your post is freezing related post in freezing and melting continue posting in melting thread.

 I do agree on mods clamping down on premature starting of threads. There needs to be evidence it has begun - else it belongs in a prediction/discussion thread.

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6174
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2236
  • Likes Given: 1875
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1371 on: September 18, 2020, 02:28:27 AM »
I am not overly concerned with the coexistence, which is why I did not temporarily lock the new thread. I just find it easier to follow one discussion rather than two, at a time when both freezing and melting are going on around the Arctic.

gandul

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 656
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1372 on: September 18, 2020, 05:48:35 PM »
The economist is a political publication, just like any of the other news media.  It's just another newsrag. 
About 30 years ago the Economist published an article on how the price to buy an unwanted girl child in rural China for the sex trade had gone up from USD 50 to 250 USD, due to improved living standards from "building socialism with capitalist tools".

The writer said this was A GOOD THING, as it proved increasing wealth in China was lifting all boats.

At which point I stopped reading the Economist and have never read it since.

And wth does this have to do with COVID-19?
El Cid shows interesting results from the Economist, harpy obsessed to signal is not hard data (although eventually brings the source that the Economist makes reference to) and finally, old leader tells us a 30-yo covid unrelated story....
Scissors, scissors...

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2275
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 254
  • Likes Given: 19386
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1373 on: September 18, 2020, 07:17:17 PM »
gerontocrat gave his view on the news source. I found his post very interesting. It is not always the cold hard data that matter.

"Scissors, scissors..."
Are you a hairdresser perchance? ;)

There is a link at the bottom of every post that says "Report to moderator"
That's the one to use if you have complaints. No need to bother us all.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3140
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 531
  • Likes Given: 369
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1374 on: September 18, 2020, 09:40:54 PM »
I feel I have to stand up for fellow members with an 'elder-rule' view, especially old ones, that get treated not so respectfull.

Quote from nanning
Quote
    gerontocrat gave his view on the news source. I found his post very interesting


Why do you write about him in the third person?

 ;D ;D

I hope you're up for a little light ribbing today, nanning.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

gandul

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 656
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1375 on: September 18, 2020, 11:50:19 PM »
gerontocrat gave his view on the news source. I found his post very interesting. It is not always the cold hard data that matter.

"Scissors, scissors..."
Are you a hairdresser perchance? ;)

There is a link at the bottom of every post that says "Report to moderator"
That's the one to use if you have complaints. No need to bother us all.

Perchance are you a joker?
No, I remember you now. Yeah, you are that clown that hates human kind.

Sorry for editing but I find this guy very hilarious:
“0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring”

So he places at similar level of achievement in his badge that we showers once or twice a week at most with with disinterest or inability to procreate. This is extremely rich.

0kg CO2?? Totally zero?? If you have an account in this server, your carbon footprint is very far from zero, let alone your farting.

You are so fake, lol
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 12:02:08 AM by gandul »

gandul

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 656
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1376 on: September 19, 2020, 12:07:24 AM »
I feel I have to stand up for fellow members with an 'elder-rule' view, especially old ones, that get treated not so respectfull.

Quote from nanning
Quote
    gerontocrat gave his view on the news source. I found his post very interesting


Why do you write about him in the third person?

 ;D ;D

I hope you're up for a little light ribbing today, nanning.

I just say to that old man, if you write posts, be it on topic. I am making an effort to be on topic, the Gero should do the freaking same, but I don’t know, he being British, old, and doing the dirty job of putting the data together daily, may be granted privileges, who knows...

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6174
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2236
  • Likes Given: 1875
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1377 on: September 19, 2020, 01:54:37 AM »
Gandul, what you said about nanning certainly falls outside forum decorum.


 addendum .. agreed ! moderation ?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 06:54:39 PM by be cause »

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2275
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 254
  • Likes Given: 19386
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1378 on: September 19, 2020, 08:10:37 AM »
Thanks oren. I have a 'thick skin' and recognize when someone capitulates :).

Grandul,
Serious questions about the 0Kg CO₂ and other personal conumptions etc. will be gladly answered. Note: These zero emissions are just my personal direct emissions. Re: fake, you have no idea of the amount of discipline and sacrifices by me to be able to be a good example for others and to live with my conscience. I have to be pure otherwise I have no base to stand on. "Full honesty" didn't fit on that line.

-----
wili,
I am not a native English speaker, and may easily have made an error.

I was not addressing gerontocrat in my post above whilst Steve did address ralfy in his post. To me, that's the difference.

Let me explain what I mean:
Addressing someone who's standing next to you, in the third person, in stead of directly addressing the person, is in my view disrespectful.
If Steve was not in a discussion with ralfy, then it is different. Then it is like talking about someone who isn't present.
I see a clear difference but do you see it too?
If I'm wrong with my interpretation, please explain it so that I may improve my English language skills.

-

"ribbing"
Learned a new word already, thank you wili :).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

gandul

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 656
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1379 on: September 19, 2020, 03:57:47 PM »
Gandul, what you said about nanning certainly falls outside forum decorum.
Yes.
He probably is not a clown.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2275
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 254
  • Likes Given: 19386
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1380 on: September 19, 2020, 05:36:14 PM »
Are you?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?