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Author Topic: Forum Decorum  (Read 81484 times)

Susan Anderson

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #450 on: September 26, 2019, 07:58:03 PM »
I once again faced a barrage of intolerant and in some cases ill-informed opinion. imnsho, this should not occupy space in the list of recent posts.

I would rather see you there fighting the good fight with me, Susan. :) ;)

Thanks, but I tried and failed, for way too long. I don't have the time or the stamina, and Neven himself condemned my efforts. It's his forum.

@nanning, yes, we are too egocentric. And - OT alert - Boris Johnson suggesting that the murdered anti-Brexit campaigner should be "honored" by promoting Brexit is horrifying as well. There are too many dictators-in-training and racist otherblamers taking over too many governments around the globe. But I'm past apologizing for the likes of Mossadegh, Vietnam, Reagan/Thatcher, and Bush II, let alone Trump. It's awful!!!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 09:48:34 PM by Susan Anderson »

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #451 on: September 27, 2019, 09:38:06 AM »
having watched the UK parliament recently , our prime sinister could learn @ decorum from this forum .. :) .. b.c.
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Susan Anderson

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #452 on: October 06, 2019, 08:44:03 PM »
Here is a quote which I provide first, and hope it will be read before being dismissed. The explanation of why it is here follows directly. Since this is one of the best summaries of the problem I've ever seen, I felt it was worth putting it out of context, and lead this comment with it. It is equal opportunity in accusing big fossil of corruption everywhere.

Quote
The saga includes, among other incidents, the purposeful detonation of a 50-kiloton nuclear bomb 8,000 feet below the earth's surface (unsettlingly close to an I70 exit ramp in Colorado); an international financial crisis; a 28,000 ton vessel dragging unmoored and unmanned on the craggy coast of Alaska; tornadoes; the novelty of man-made earthquakes; murdered cows; and a third-grade public school teacher panhandling to provide school supplies for her students. Even an inept Russian spy ring ferreted out of suburban tract houses in New Jersey and Virginia. Even Russia's interference in the 2016 US presidential election. Seems unlikely, but it all ties.

The motive force of all the action - its fuel as well as its engine - is the most consequential, the most lucrative, the most powerful, and the least-well-governed major industry in the history of mankind. Oil and gas. I do not propose to discount or minimize the powerful and positive effects the producers of our hydrocarbons have had on our own country and on the world at large. I like driving ... and heating my house as much as the next person, and the through line between energy and economic growth and development is as clear to me as an electric streetlight piercing the black night. But the political impact of the industry that brings us those things is also worth recognizing as a key ingredient in the global chaos and democratic downturn we're now living through.

I don't mean to be rude, but I also want to be clear: the oil and gas industry is essentially a big casino that can produce both power and triumphant great gobs of cash, often with little regard for merit. This equation invites gangsterism, extortion, thuggery, and the sorts of folks who enjoy these hobbies. Its practitioners have been lumbering across the globe of late, causing mindless damage and laying the groundwork for the global catastrophe that is the climate crisis, but also reordering short-term geopolitics in a strong-but-dumb survival contest that renders everything we think of as politics as just theatre. It's worth understanding why. And why now.

Why is this here? Because Neven has shut down a discussion about Rachel Maddow's superb book about the history of oil and gas and its takeover of the world (quote is from her introduction), with some blistering insults and misrepresentations (see below). This is not true (I was going to say something stronger, the lack of skepticism reflects a strange lack of interest in the facts or the truth; it is hard to understand why Neven, who has does the world a great service as one of the world's most superb reporters on the cryosphere, chooses to be guided by hate on this). It is gaslighting, ad hominem, using personal attacks to discredit some of the best reporting on big fossil we have in the world today. I didn't know exactly where to put it, so here it is.

Please at least read the above quote with an open mind (it's from the introduction to Blowout. It is a powerful bit of truthtelling. To call the author one of the out-of-touch-millionnaire stooges of smoke-and-mirrors neoliberalism is wrong, and it does harm.

Quote
Re: Last Stand of The Fossil Fools« Reply #1 on: Today at 12:38:02 PM »

But this has nothing to do whatsoever with Arctic sea ice, and a video with two out-of-touch-millionnaire stooges of smoke-and-mirrors neoliberalism is about the worst starting point one could imagine.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 09:01:17 PM by Susan Anderson »

Neven

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #453 on: October 06, 2019, 09:08:44 PM »
I would have to read the book, but from what I've seen from that cringeworthy interview and this quote by Susan, I suspect it's shallow, superficial intellectualism that doesn't address the real elephants in the room (an economic system geared towards exponentially increasing and concentrating wealth).

Maddow is simply cashing in with John Le Carré-style thriller paranoia. Better spend your money reading Klein, Chomsky, Hedges and many, many others, whose minds haven't been perverted by ratings and obscene amounts of money.

Either way, FF's post was in the wrong category because it really didn't have anything to do with Arctic sea ice, and you could open a thread elsewhere, but I continue to maintain that this 'interview' is about the worst starting point one could imagine for a discussion.

Maddow was good in the past, but in recent years she has done a great disservice to the American people, and continues to do so. Not a disservice to people who are well-off and love to identify with 'smart' people, but to the majority of Americans. But she's not the only one. The entire American mainstream millionaire media has shown itself to be a fraud.

Denying this goes against the decorum of this particular forum.
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HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #454 on: October 06, 2019, 10:13:42 PM »
Either way, FF's post was in the wrong category because it really didn't have anything to do with Arctic sea ice, and you could open a thread elsewhere

Fully agreed.

The rest is politically biased off-topic fluff, IMHO - same as the preceding post.

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #455 on: October 10, 2019, 04:57:23 PM »
<Snipped>

Including this post that makes it 5x OT Posts (quoted above included)

instead of letting it by.

I smell paybacks and it tells me who's who (what)

I'm not a sea-ice specialist but in studies of human behavior and how it's related to various
disasters in the past and upcoming. Thanks for the nice example, will add it to one of my studies / lectures.

This is Kafkaesque! Dude trying to start a meta-discussion in the data thread when asked to not use this thread for discussions. I would call this kind of behaviour impertinent.
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philopek

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #456 on: October 10, 2019, 05:06:42 PM »
<Snipped>

Including this post that makes it 5x OT Posts (quoted above included)

instead of letting it by.

I smell paybacks and it tells me who's who (what)

I'm not a sea-ice specialist but in studies of human behavior and how it's related to various
disasters in the past and upcoming. Thanks for the nice example, will add it to one of my studies / lectures.

This is Kafkaesque! Dude trying to start a meta-discussion in the data thread when asked to not use this thread for discussions. I would call this kind of behaviour impertinent.

Yes i am impertinent when it comes to hypocrisy and people who play "Moralapostel" while at the same time showing dogmatism, tendencies to rule, tendencies to set their own standard as the only valid and certainly against revenge fouls and "Betroffenheitsdemokraten" and "Denunziantentum"

Leute an den "Pranger" stellen wegen eines 3-Worte Vergehens.

To make it clear, yes it was not perfect, should have taken it to the freezing season thread, hence i have no issue to admit my mistake there, but it's neither up to you nor appropriate to post that because of 3 words referring to a post in the VERY SAME thread.

Further I'm used to look/see behind things, means motivation why who is doing what.

An error with proper motives is forgivable while anything with bad motive is to condemn.

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #457 on: October 10, 2019, 05:12:28 PM »
"Moralapostel"

What has thread discipline to do with morals?
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nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #458 on: October 20, 2019, 07:14:25 AM »
Just want to say: Thank you gerontocrat for your interesting and high quality non-datathread posts of late.
Also I think Terry and you write creative and eloquent English. Thank you both for your extensive vocabularies :).
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Aporia_filia

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #459 on: October 20, 2019, 11:30:22 AM »
^^^ yeah! Growing old with an open curious mind means becoming wiser as they show us!