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Gumbercules

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Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« on: August 07, 2019, 04:10:23 AM »
https://humanevents.com/2019/08/06/reza-aslan-calls-genocide-against-trump-supporters/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

With all the criticism aimed, intentionally deceitfully mind you, towards the right these days, it's worth noting how aggressive, hateful, and literally murderous the left has become. The El Paso shooter was an environmentalist that thought there were too many people on the Earth. The Dayton Ohio shooter was a democrat.

A widely known commentator on the left has just now called for the literal slaughter of those with "wrong-think."

He said this, verbatim, on the leftist propaganda platform Twitter:

"After today there is no longer any room for nuance. The President is a white nationalist terror leader. His supporters - ALL OF THEM - are by definition white nationalist terror supporters. The MAGA hat is a KKK hood. And this evil, racist scourge must be eradicated from society."

Reza Aslan says ALL TRUMP SUPPORTERS MUST BE ERADICATED.

Lol.

Hey, Blumenkraut, do you agree or disagree with your Stalinist friends about the ERADICATION of Trump supporters?

Do you approve or disapprove of political mass murder? Yes or no. WHAT SAY YOU?

We've seen where this leads before. The Soviets and Chinese murdered 100 million of their own people on purpose, for political disagreements.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 04:39:38 AM by Gumbercules »

Neven

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 10:02:57 PM »
I'll let this thread stand, because it could be an interesting discussions. However, if things get off the rails, I will close it immediately.

As for my opinion: I don't really believe that much in left and right. It's something that was maybe relevant last century, but nowadays people don't even know the real differences. You'll hear nonsense like 'Hitler was actually a lefty too'. It's just a ploy to further divide people and make money off the division.

But even then, my reply to the topic opener would be: Is there only one, heterogenous 'leftism'? Or is it actually composed of various variants and streams of thought?

Nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.
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jai mitchell

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2019, 10:51:16 PM »
I really wish you wouldn't, this kind of idiocy makes us all dumber just by reading it.
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sedziobs

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2019, 11:16:35 PM »
Quote
What if, someday, a person reads a thing you have written, decides that they are
determined to make your vision for the world a reality, and then goes on to commit some act of violence? To what degree are the proponents of an ideology responsible for acts committed in the name of that ideology? Do you have a responsibility to disavow or discourage those who carry out acts you don’t approve of, if they carry out those acts in the name of an ideology you both (at least nominally) share? What if, even if you explicitly state that you do not support violence, people who do commit violence find your words useful in justifying their acts? What is the link between ideas and murder?
...
You see this a lot in killers’ manifestos. They produce all the arguments for the justice of a articular political cause, and then make a wild leap to “...and that’s why I’ve decided to commit a massacre.” The Unabomber Manifesto is infamously quite persuasive in parts, containing (among other things) a powerful critique of the destructive effects of technology on human society. What it doesn’t contain, though, is a persuasive argument that mailing people bombs through the post is a wise reaction to these social ills, or a sensible way to advance the environmentalist project. (With the climate growing ever-more unstable and a million species set for rapid extinction, we can in fact clearly see that mailing people bombs was stunningly ineffective in advancing the environmentalist cause!) Given that the method and styles of mass killings can often be quite similar even when motivated by apparently disparate ideologies, and given that “ideological” killers (even hateful ones) still often struggle to articulate any clear connection between their political goals and their violent acts, it can be argued that perhaps mass killers are people primarily attracted by the idea of violence, and that the ideology justifying it is simply a rationalization plucked for the convenient purposes of allowing people to do something that they were already inclined to do.

Certainly, there are circumstances in which people on the left would argue strongly that “ideas” are not the root of violence. When it comes to acts of terrorism by Islamic fundamentalists, we are inclined to argue that this violence is not simply an inevitable logical outcome of the terrorists’ belief in a particular religious doctrine, but has a complex set of interrelated causes. If we simply believed that doctrine was chief cause of violence, we would give credence to the conservative argument that it is the responsibility of the Islamic community as a whole to cast out the Bad Ideas that cause people to blow up civilians. We hesitate to give over-simplified explanations for terrorist acts by Muslims because we know that the vast majority of Muslims are not violent, and because the story of how individuals become “radicalized” often seems to be highly personal and influenced by a variety of individual and social factors besides religion.
...
Obviously, there is a clear power imbalance between these two examples: when white terrorists commit mass murder, white people are not profiled by the state, whereas when Muslim terrorists commit mass murder, we get covert watch lists, interrogations at black sites, and legally-sanctioned Muslim Bans. In the general public imagination, all Muslim killers are acting out of a shared ideology, whereas white killers are acting from an indeterminate hodgepodge of possible non-ideological motives. But outside cases like the Mosque shooter, where the shooter clearly announces “I am a racist,” there’s often no evidence to suggest that any given white killer is motivated by the intensity of his belief in white supremacy, any more than a Muslim shooter is motivated by deeply-held religious conviction. If we’re honest with ourselves, we’re all probably guilty of profiling killers, watching the Breaking News with baited breath to find out if the latest mass murderer is someone we will have to apologize for, or whom we can righteously condemn as the Inevitable Consequence Of That Problem We’re Always Talking About. Who can forget how excited the Republicans were when that gunman who opened fire on a GOP softball game turned out to be a Bernie Sanders supporter? And who on the left didn’t feel that it simply Made Sense when that Canadian incel ran down a bunch of women with his car?
...
It is easy to ask questions here, but it is hard to produce consistent satisfying answers. Ideology often seems to clearly affect the choice of victim—the mosque shooter might have been a violent person regardless, but he killed Muslims because he was a white supremacist. Yet there are a lot of indisputably hate-filled ideologues who never actually kill anybody. Even a lot of alt-right people who have implicitly or explicitly endorsed violence--those who, for example, regularly trade “St Breivik” memes and claim to relish the coming race war--waved away the Christchurch shooter as a “false fag” rather than celebrating his act as the beginning of the ethnic struggle they supposedly yearn for. Ideological hatred alone doesn’t make one a violent person, and most violence may lack an obvious ideological component. Ideology often seems to offer an excuse for people who are fascinated by the idea of killing to have a reason to kill people. But perhaps it can also help push people who would never have considered violence into considering it—certainly, in a community setting like the military, ideology is used to turn ordinary people who have never committed violence into trained killers who won’t think twice about taking the life of a human being who has never injured them.
...
Perhaps everyone should be more responsible for the consequences of their words. Perhaps if you help suck people into a worldview that causes them to fear and hate, and to contemplate violence, you need to be taking active steps to stop anything bad from happening and be aware of your impact in the world. It may not be acceptable to simply pretend that speech has no consequences. Then again, what if we insist our ideology is innocent, that we have never once advocated violence and deplore it in all its forms? What if there are just people out there who want to kill, and we happen to be the ones who gave them an idea that let them feel they should pick up a gun? We all want to draw lines between ideas and consequences, but are we ready to apply our conclusions equally to all?

In the end, we have no slam-dunk answers to offer on these difficult questions: merely the vague sense that we are still very far from understanding why mass killers kill. We should be wary of imposing easy explanations on killings, especially if we’re going to apply those explanations inconsistently across different types of killers when it suits our political instincts. At the same time, though, we have the responsibility to be wary of our own words. Even if we don’t believe that ideology or political rhetoric is the sole or even the major cause of this type of violence, we should at least recognize that casually advocating or idly justifying violence--even as a rhetorical tool, for shock value, as a joke--is always a dangerous game. Someone who’s listening to you more closely than you realize might take you up on it. You might even begin to believe yourself.
The Ideological Roots of Murder by Brianna Rennix & Nathan J Robinson
Current Affairs April 2019

oren

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2019, 11:29:14 PM »
I really wish you wouldn't, this kind of idiocy makes us all dumber just by reading it.
Indeed

Neven

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2019, 11:52:54 PM »
Aha, so that quote by sedziobs is making us all dumber? I wouldn't have read it if I had immediately locked down the thread.

What I also find interesting, is that Gumbercules is doing the exact same thing he accused Blumenkraft of, when BK jumped on him when he first showed up. We must not immediately assume this or that when Gumbercules states he's a Trump voter, but conversely all leftists are actually fascists, of course, and a greater threat than AGW.

Funny how that works...
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sedziobs

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2019, 12:11:15 AM »
Maybe this wasn't the best place to share that quote, but it's been on my mind since the shootings a few days ago in the state where I live. I would have just linked to the article but it's subscription only. I don't think it's a good idea to judge ideologies based on a rogue action, and it's also unwise to assign ideologies to acts of violence. The two can be related in ambiguous ways, if at all.

We have a major problem with violence in the US, and there doesn't seem to be much hope for improvement. The reaction around here has been mostly blame and vitriol.

DrTskoul

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2019, 01:16:22 AM »
I really wish you wouldn't, this kind of idiocy makes us all dumber just by reading it.

Actually I don't mind it as a sign post... how dumb can people be. A fascist is a fascist regardless the "reasons" they concoct.

DrTskoul

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2019, 01:23:10 AM »
Maybe this wasn't the best place to share that quote, but it's been on my mind since the shootings a few days ago in the state where I live. I would have just linked to the article but it's subscription only. I don't think it's a good idea to judge ideologies based on a rogue action, and it's also unwise to assign ideologies to acts of violence. The two can be related in ambiguous ways, if at all.

We have a major problem with violence in the US, and there doesn't seem to be much hope for improvement. The reaction around here has been mostly blame and vitriol.

If an ideology incorporates the superiority of a group against another group and also incorporates the use of weaponry or guerilla city warfare tactics then by consequence some of the believers of the ideology will turn their innate violent tendencies against their inferior group of choice. White nationalists, nazi, leftist guerilla groups in Europe during 70s and 80s, eco-terrorists, Islamic, hindu, Christian fanatic terrorist groups, are all in the same pot. Because there exist groups in the full spectrum of crazies, that does not mean we are going to be quiet outing the as specific white nationalism!!!

jai mitchell

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2019, 01:24:05 AM »
I really wish you wouldn't, this kind of idiocy makes us all dumber just by reading it.

Actually I don't mind it as a sign post... how dumb can people be. A fascist is a fascist regardless the "reasons" they concoct.

I am strongly beginning to think that the antisocial and comprehension/susceptibility to propaganda traits associated with fascist rightwing ideologues and climate deniers is directly related to pre-natal and in utero heavy metals exposure, especially in areas like refinery ally or the traditional coal-fired power generation areas.
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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2019, 01:38:31 AM »


Hey, Blumenkraut, do you agree or disagree with your Stalinist friends about the ERADICATION of Trump supporters?


There is no place for this in a civilized community. Kraut is a perjorative insult aimed at the German people as a whole and equivalent to calling someone a  nigger, spic or kike.

Simply unacceptable that the moderator will allow individuals on the forum to be the subject of racial or ethnic slurs like this.

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2019, 01:51:01 AM »
I do not believe the shootings took place.

They are false flags.
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petm

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2019, 01:58:00 AM »
Divisive politics is the threat, not left or right. We need to elect uniters, not dividers, no matter what party.

There is no place for this in a civilized community.

The problem is that things have gotten far from civilized lately. When you have people at Trump rallies shouting things like 'shoot them', and Trump not setting them straight but making jokes, and so on... what do you expect the reaction to be?

be cause

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2019, 03:01:02 AM »
 .. never has my comment in forum decorum yesterday been more relevant .. :)  ..  to quote petm ..  'things have gotten far from civilized lately' .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

Rich

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2019, 03:05:36 AM »
Divisive politics is the threat, not left or right. We need to elect uniters, not dividers, no matter what party.

There is no place for this in a civilized community.

The problem is that things have gotten far from civilized lately. When you have people at Trump rallies shouting things like 'shoot them', and Trump not setting them straight but making jokes, and so on... what do you expect the reaction to be?

What do I expect?

I expect nothing. I'm just passing through here in Neven's world and expressing my opinion that he shouldn't allow members like blumenkraft to be subject to offensive epithets.

Gumbercules has referred to a German citizen here as a "kraut" and Neven has decided to let that remain. I disagree with that decision. It's no different or less offensive than having a black person being referred to as a nigger.

If you would like to comment on the point I'm making, please feel free.

be cause

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2019, 03:06:37 AM »
eenie meanie minee mo .. catch a bigot by the toe .. if he squeals , let go real slow .. eenie meanie minee mo ho ho ho ! b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

Rich

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2019, 03:15:43 AM »
eenie meanie minee mo .. catch a bigot by the toe .. if he squeals , let go real slow .. eenie meanie minee mo ho ho ho ! b.c.

The village idiot has spoken.

petm

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2019, 03:18:44 AM »
If you would like to comment on the point I'm making, please feel free.

I think any kind of prejudice, bigotry, or intolerance is stupid, harmful, and reflects terribly on whoever is displaying or supporting it, rather than on whoever they are targeting.

As to whether expressions of such should be banned -- that's debatable. It might be better to know where people honestly stand and to see how people react to it, rather than having to read between the lines.

Rich

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2019, 04:57:08 AM »
There should be zero tolerance for racism.

Gumbercules now has a platform for racism here and the tolerance of that normalizes his behavior. Another racist can feel free to join him now and others after that.

If that is not a legitimate criteria for banning, what is?

What does it say to a contributor like blumenkraft that we find insults like that tolerable? No one deserves to be addressed in such a vile manner. Decent people should stand shoulder to shoulder and condemn this.

Neven

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2019, 08:05:37 AM »
I hadn't noticed the Blumenkraut thing, and I won't immediately assume it was done on purpose, because when was the last time someone insulted a German that way? Maybe Gumbercules would like to edit that, and I can do it for him if Blumenkraft feels offended. I'm not sure Gumbercules is still willing to post here, as he was angry that he was still under pre-moderation.

I would actually translate Blumenkraut as 'cauliflower' or 'bloemkool' in Dutch, because a Blum is a 'flower' and a Kraut is a 'cabbage'.
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Alexander555

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2019, 08:18:52 AM »
It's maybe stupid to say, because we can not turn back time. But leftism is a disaster for this planet. If you look at what they have been doing for a long time. And than i'm talking about UNICEF, docters without borders, United Nations, all the NGO's..... They go to a place like Africa with their modern medical equipment......And the number of children that dies at birth or in their first years start to drop significantly. And the result is strong population growth in a place where there would not be population growth without their intervention. Because where is the infrastructure, the sewage system, the food, the jobs......The result is a giant extremely poor population.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 07:28:38 PM by Alexander555 »

zufall

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2019, 09:42:47 AM »
Quote
I hadn't noticed the Blumenkraut thing, and I won't immediately assume it was done on purpose, because when was the last time someone insulted a German that way? Maybe Gumbercules would like to edit that, and I can do it for him if Blumenkraft feels offended.
Quote
I would actually translate Blumenkraut as 'cauliflower' or 'bloemkool' in Dutch, because a Blum is a 'flower' and a Kraut is a 'cabbage'.

Well, I'm a German. "Blumenkraut" is no actual word. "Kraut" is an ethnic slur, it's sometimes used as a real insult, sometimes in a mellow way, so it has to be understood from the context. Now look at the context in which the poster used it and decide for yourself. Also the damage is already done, it cannot be undone by erasing the words. I only hope that blumenkraft has not been choked out finally by this.

If the poster did not use the word intentionally, he'll surely be quite ready to apologize.

I'd like to thank Rich for showing solidarity.

bbr2314

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2019, 09:44:37 AM »
It's maybe stupid to say, because we can not turn back time. But leftism is a disaster for this plant. If you look at what they have been doing for a long time. And than i'm talking about UNICEF, docters without borders, United Nations, all the NGO's..... They go to a place like Africa with their modern medical equipment......And the number of children that dies at birth or in their first years start to drop significantly. And the result is strong population growth in a place where there would not be population growth without their intervention. Because where is the infrastructure, the sewage system, the food, the jobs......The result is a giant extremely poor population.
I strongly agree.

The French Revolution was the biggest, most impactful event in human history, and the turning point where the entire populace began striving for consumerist misery instead of a limited elite.

This gave rise to the global middle class which is the single most important driving force re: AGW and climate change. The same middle class is the culprit behind worsening conditions of wage slavery / etc for billions in the developing world. Keep them alive, just barely, so they can slave away in factories making sh*t we don't need for sh*t people that don't deserve it anyways.

Leftism is a horrible thing, and I also agree with posters here who say they do not believe in free speech / etc. Yes, people on the right can tend towards extremism and can be horrible, but leftist intolerance is MUCH worse IMO.

be cause

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2019, 10:21:17 AM »
 .. the sewer widens and deepens ..it stinks in here . I think I'll continue putting my shit on the compost heap .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2019, 11:26:52 AM »
.. the sewer widens and deepens ..it stinks in here . I think I'll continue putting my shit on the compost heap .. b.c.
There is honest shit with an honest stink on the compost heap.
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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2019, 11:46:38 AM »
Wow...I hope somebody is trolling...

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2019, 12:13:09 PM »
I hadn't noticed the Blumenkraut thing, and I won't immediately assume it was done on purpose, because when was the last time someone insulted a German that way? Maybe Gumbercules would like to edit that, and I can do it for him if Blumenkraft feels offended. I'm not sure Gumbercules is still willing to post here, as he was angry that he was still under pre-moderation.

I would actually translate Blumenkraut as 'cauliflower' or 'bloemkool' in Dutch, because a Blum is a 'flower' and a Kraut is a 'cabbage'.

Wake up man. It was 100% an intentional ethnic insult. 
The right to do would be to snip the entire thread and terminate the license of those who spout hate.

I don't think the 8chan element is a good mix for an environmentally conscious.

bbr2314

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2019, 12:19:36 PM »
I hadn't noticed the Blumenkraut thing, and I won't immediately assume it was done on purpose, because when was the last time someone insulted a German that way? Maybe Gumbercules would like to edit that, and I can do it for him if Blumenkraft feels offended. I'm not sure Gumbercules is still willing to post here, as he was angry that he was still under pre-moderation.

I would actually translate Blumenkraut as 'cauliflower' or 'bloemkool' in Dutch, because a Blum is a 'flower' and a Kraut is a 'cabbage'.

Wake up man. It was 100% an intentional ethnic insult. 
The right to do would be to snip the entire thread and terminate the license of those who spout hate.

I don't think the 8chan element is a good mix for an environmentally conscious.
Don't you think you are spouting hate by saying free speech should not be allowed simply because you do not agree with the opinions of others... how is this not hateful? Also it illustrates the leftist agenda nicely / if someone says something you disagree with, they should be "terminated". WTF?

Rich

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2019, 12:44:40 PM »
It is well demonstrated that online sites that tolerate racist views are incubators for person to person hate in the analog world.

There is no middle ground when it comes to racism. If you have tolerance for it, you're part of the problem.

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2019, 02:17:20 PM »
Back to Gumby's initial incitement...

There are plenty of people, myself included, that see all the worst things about Trump/Trumpism/Trump administration.  The majority cannot be painted with this militant leftist brush. 

While extremists exist on both sides, it is the right that has been co-opted by Trumpism.   


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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2019, 02:19:22 PM »

Don't you think you are spouting hate by saying free speech should not be allowed ...
Free speech is allowed. That is true.

Not listening to it is allowed.
Not publishing it is allowed. You can put your own megaphone on the internet if you wish.

I guess the Heartland Institute website refuses to publish some stuff, and 8chan?

I wonder how many members and guests have second or even third thoughts about the ASIF when coming across all this crap ?

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2019, 02:43:16 PM »

Don't you think you are spouting hate by saying free speech should not be allowed ...
Free speech is allowed. That is true.

Not listening to it is allowed.
Not publishing it is allowed. You can put your own megaphone on the internet if you wish.

I guess the Heartland Institute website refuses to publish some stuff, and 8chan?

I wonder how many members and guests have second or even third thoughts about the ASIF when coming across all this crap ?

"And that's all I'm going to say about that"

Hear hear....

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2019, 02:52:07 PM »
It is well demonstrated that online sites that tolerate racist views are incubators for person to person hate in the analog world.

There is no middle ground when it comes to racism. If you have tolerance for it, you're part of the problem.

This could be correct if the term racism wouldn't be abused by the leftists.

Why is calling whites white ok and calling blacks black bad?

Why is African American a better term than black or colored Americans, because they are not African anymore at all but they are matter of factly having a different complexion hence telling the truth, once more is considered racist and telling a political correct bullshit is ok while in fact it does not change anything about the way some people think about others.

White caucasiens are called "white noses" in China and I've seen no-one having issues with that.

Why is naming unpleasant facts and behavior in our society good (which it is IMO) and doing the same with bad conduct and bad attitudes in i.e. Israel or by certain societies with another complexion racism.

If the term racism and racism as such would be used only for the real racism that is judging people by race, and not by their doings, and as a group and not individually. Then this what you say would be accurate and would work.

The moment terms are abused they lose their original meaning and people lose orientation and makes them vulnerable to propaganda.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 02:59:44 PM by philopek »

DrTskoul

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2019, 02:58:53 PM »
It is well demonstrated that online sites that tolerate racist views are incubators for person to person hate in the analog world.

There is no middle ground when it comes to racism. If you have tolerance for it, you're part of the problem.

This could be correct if the term racism wouldn't be abused by the leftists.

Why is calling us white ok and calling blacks negros bad?

Why is naming unpleasant facts and behavior in our society good (which it is IMO) and doing the same with bad conduct and bad attitudes in i.e. Israel or by certain societies with another complexion racism.

If the term racism and racism as such would be used only for the real racism that is judging people by race, and not by their doings, and as a group and not individually. Then this what you say would be accurate and would work.

The moment terms are abused they lose their original meaning and people lose orientation and makes them vulnerable to propaganda.

It's very simple. White superiority has been exercised since the ancient times. They dont get to play the race/color card like that. Too bad , bad the history is different. And I am white too in case one wonders...and I have not known of any place a y time in history that the whites where the oppressed race. Find a different word

philopek

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2019, 03:08:50 PM »
It is well demonstrated that online sites that tolerate racist views are incubators for person to person hate in the analog world.

There is no middle ground when it comes to racism. If you have tolerance for it, you're part of the problem.

This could be correct if the term racism wouldn't be abused by the leftists.

Why is calling us white ok and calling blacks negros bad?

Why is naming unpleasant facts and behavior in our society good (which it is IMO) and doing the same with bad conduct and bad attitudes in i.e. Israel or by certain societies with another complexion racism.

If the term racism and racism as such would be used only for the real racism that is judging people by race, and not by their doings, and as a group and not individually. Then this what you say would be accurate and would work.

The moment terms are abused they lose their original meaning and people lose orientation and makes them vulnerable to propaganda.

It's very simple. White superiority has been exercised since the ancient times. They dont get to play the race/color card like that. Too bad , bad the history is different. And I am white too in case one wonders...and I have not known of any place a y time in history that the whites where the oppressed race. Find a different word

What you replied is correct but it does not answer the question IMO.

I thought to bring that question up to round up the image a bit while it's kind of useless to take this further because I can't see where I disagree with what you and others say.

My point was more about that we are going to more and more lose the possibility to communicate as long as one word/term after another is demonized after being abused. What remains is a very superficial language that, as soon as we want to digg a bit deeper, like often seen in this forum and elsewhere, what follows is a back and forth bickering over terms, even once it's obvious that there is general agreement.

IMO communication is key and the degradation of language is part of the many modern issues.

I'm opting out here, it's not going to change anything but at the same time one poor expression can damage a reputation for a long time, not worth it really.

Thanks for you feedback because it was correct and that's all that matters to me ;)

SteveMDFP

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2019, 04:07:04 PM »
eenie meanie minee mo .. catch a bigot by the toe .. if he squeals , let go real slow .. eenie meanie minee mo ho ho ho ! b.c.

The village idiot has spoken.

Please.  b.c. often contributes brief, pithy, sometimes humorous posts.  Like anyone's attempt at humor, some fall flat.  Occasionally very flat.

Any forum devolves into crap unless there is a culture of respect for the other individuals and a presumption of good will by the people.  Individual *assertions* can be utterly stupid, and identified as such by others, with due respect not to impugn the good will of the contributor. 

This approach used to be an unspoken ethic in academic realms, one I've come to appreciate and benefit from.  Perhaps the approach needs to be an explicit standard.

There's no need to insult another member of the community.

petm

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2019, 04:23:36 PM »
I'm not sure if the deeper (black) comedy is if these posts are honest or trolling. Either way, it's abundantly clear that the Earth will be better off once H. sapiens extincts itself (or at least sends itself back to the Stone Age).

Actually come to think of it, it would be good to do away with liberals. Since that includes the vast majority of scientists, this would greatly reduce our capacity to adapt to the coming environmental challenges and therefore lead to a much faster collapse of civilization. I.e., The best thing to do now for the planet is to follow the right-wing agenda of denialism (of climate change and science in general). 

blumenkraft

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2019, 04:43:02 PM »
Do not engage!



@Neven: Giving them a forum is wrong and someday you will regret it.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

MyACIsDying

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2019, 04:54:11 PM »
Interesting thread. 'leftists' and 'rightists' accusing each other of causing the world's problems.
Where's class consciousness? I've seen plenty on this forum, working towards understanding what's important for us all without the divisive squabbles of MSM fed bs.

French revolution caused AGW because leftists wanted everyone to exploit the world instead of just the elite?? That's a fresh take at least..

Isn't what we all want the end of exploitation, of the planet and people? Isn't it the exploitation in itself that requires these squabbles to survive? People of the world, unite or die. That's the only matter when it comes to politics.

Pmt111500

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2019, 04:55:18 PM »
Ah, this forum has devolved. Looks like I should expand the ignore-list way more than I'm willing to. Giving no ideas to alt-right does not work as they invent so much themselves. Starting to prefer a more closed forum.
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Tunnelforce9

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2019, 05:01:29 PM »
Quote from: bbr2314
the entire populace began striving for consumerist misery instead of a limited elite.

This gave rise to the global middle class which is the single most important driving force re: AGW and climate change. The same middle class is the culprit behind worsening conditions of wage slavery / etc for billions in the developing world. Keep them alive, just barely, so they can slave away in factories making sh*t we don't need for sh*t people that don't deserve it anyways.

Total rubbish.

The reason why Africans have more children, larger families, is because of the lack of foodsecurity, social plans and infrastructure (who takes care of the elderly?)

The the main causes, are :

1: Colonialism
2: Religion


Take a look at these 4 infographs.


gr Eric


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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2019, 05:06:33 PM »
I'm not sure if the deeper (black) comedy is if these posts are honest or trolling. Either way, it's abundantly clear that the Earth will be better off once H. sapiens extincts itself (or at least sends itself back to the Stone Age).

Actually come to think of it, it would be good to do away with liberals. Since that includes the vast majority of scientists, this would greatly reduce our capacity to adapt to the coming environmental challenges and therefore lead to a much faster collapse of civilization. I.e., The best thing to do now for the planet is to follow the right-wing agenda of denialism (of climate change and science in general).

I do not agree that the vast majority of scientists are liberals.  Liberals (and conservatives) tend to believe a particular ideology, and are less swayed by facts than most.  Scientists are the opposite; they will change their views based on the latest data and research.  We do not succumb to a particular view without supporting evidence.  I do not see this on either extreme of the political spectrum.  That is not to say that there are not scientists whom espouse these viewpoints.  Rather, they are in the minority.

Tunnelforce9

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2019, 05:25:32 PM »
Quote from: Klondike Kat
  Liberals (and conservatives) tend to believe a particular ideology, and are less swayed by facts than most

It doesn't look that way
https://www.amacad.org/publication/perceptions-science-america/section/6

Rich

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2019, 06:49:20 PM »
eenie meanie minee mo .. catch a bigot by the toe .. if he squeals , let go real slow .. eenie meanie minee mo ho ho ho ! b.c.

The village idiot has spoken.

Please.  b.c. often contributes brief, pithy, sometimes humorous posts.  Like anyone's attempt at humor, some fall flat.  Occasionally very flat.

Any forum devolves into crap unless there is a culture of respect for the other individuals and a presumption of good will by the people.  Individual *assertions* can be utterly stupid, and identified as such by others, with due respect not to impugn the good will of the contributor. 

This approach used to be an unspoken ethic in academic realms, one I've come to appreciate and benefit from.  Perhaps the approach needs to be an explicit standard.

There's no need to insult another member of the community.

As someone who has had my own goodwill routinely attacked by b.c., I feel no need to extend any superficial niceties in his direction

To me, this is a serious matter that doesn't merit a joke.

A member of this community was addressed with a racial insult. Neven's response to that is troubling. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as to being naive regarding the initial understanding of the meaning.

But reflection upon the matter leaves no wiggle room for interpretation. We all know it was a racial insult.

The eyes are on Neven now. What part of him wants to allow this kind of behavior to fall within the realm of acceptable on ASIF? Is there some sympathy in him for the alt-right?

This is a slam dunk ban IMO and everyone w/o alt-right leanings agrees that tolerance has it's limits and applauds Neven's decision. 

As a person of Jewish descent, I'm well aware of what the hate leads to. It leads to carnage in places like El Paso. The term "Never Again" means we don't stay neutral in the face of hate.

There's no excuse for Neven to tolerate this. If this kind of thing is allowed here, it can only be because he wants it here.

Tunnelforce9

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2019, 08:01:01 PM »
I agree with Rich, Gumbercules hasn't shown ANY improvement in his behaviour.

What can one expect of a person who choose "Abradolf Lincler" as a screen name on this Forum?


cheers, Eric

blumenkraft

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2019, 08:17:09 PM »
For the record, Neven calling me 'just the same than them' once insulted me a thousand times more than Arsedolph Shitter possibly could.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

Alexander555

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2019, 08:19:46 PM »
So some of you see the alt-right as the big problem. Let me tell you, half of Afghanistan is under control of the Taliban,islamists, heroindealers. In India at this moment,you have Khasmir. A muslim majority part of India. That is beinig populated by muslims from Pakistan. You have the Rohinyas from Bangladesh that moved to Myanmar and are now back in Myanmar. In the south of Thailand there is a big muslim population, and it's like a little war zone. In the Philippines they have a big muslim population and they already had to bombard a city with a population of 300 000 people. Reality is that they always want to convert everybody to the Islam. It's not a passif religeon. All these african countries where you have a 50/50 muslim/christian population, are like warzones. And it's not the christians that are expanding. How many Jews live in Israël ? A couple million. Would they still be alive without the support of the US ? Because they are surrounded by a few hundreds of millions of muslim brotherhood supporters. I think more than half of Egypt voted for the muslim brotherhood. But you can not say a worth about all of this or you are a fascist. I think most of you guys have to take a look at your own tolerance first. Before you create more failed states.

cognitivebias2

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2019, 08:49:53 PM »
Alexander,
  Which part can be blamed on the Leftists?  Who creates the failed states? 

Looks like an anti-muslim word salad to me...  maybe you have a future in speech writing if Steven Miller retires.


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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2019, 08:55:05 PM »
So some of you see the alt-right as the big problem. Let me tell you, half of Afghanistan is under control of the Taliban,islamists, heroindealers. In India at this moment,you have Khasmir. A muslim majority part of India. That is beinig populated by muslims from Pakistan. You have the Rohinyas from Bangladesh that moved to Myanmar and are now back in Myanmar. In the south of Thailand there is a big muslim population, and it's like a little war zone. In the Philippines they have a big muslim population and they already had to bombard a city with a population of 300 000 people. Reality is that they always want to convert everybody to the Islam. It's not a passif religeon. All these african countries where you have a 50/50 muslim/christian population, are like warzones. And it's not the christians that are expanding. How many Jews live in Israël ? A couple million. Would they still be alive without the support of the US ? Because they are surrounded by a few hundreds of millions of muslim brotherhood supporters. I think more than half of Egypt voted for the muslim brotherhood. But you can not say a worth about all of this or you are a fascist. I think most of you guys have to take a look at your own tolerance first. Before you create more failed states.

It is sheer stupidity.

To the person who said African overpopulation is due to colonialism and regionalism:

What about high European birth rates in the 1800s? Were those also due to colonialism? Were the British, French, Germans, and Italians popping out babies way beyond the base rate of sustainability because they were colonized by big bad white people? Or was it because they were at a similar state to Africa today 200 years ago in terms of development?

Furthermore, who benefited most from the slave trade? Was it actually Americans, or was it the people back in Africa who were rounding up their "compatriots" and auctioning them off to the highest bidder? What about the fact that this practice still continues today in Mauritania? They have a substantial population remaining in slavery. Is that white people's fault too?

It is just SUCH a silly cop out to say "white people bad racist oppressors bla bla bla". It is only true as much as it is true for humans of every color and creed. It is EASY to blame a specific group for another group's ills since time eternal, it is DIFFICULT to say -- OK, these are the actual factors that resulted in this problem, one group in particular isn't to blame, it is simply a situation of the human condition that has been repeated ad infinitum through history.

NO group of humans is better than the other, NO group of animals is better than the other, we are all equal, and ignoring this fundamental fact is where human moral relativism goes off the deep end and into stupidity, for both LEFT and for RIGHT.

bbr2314

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Re: Leftism is a greater threat than climate change
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2019, 08:58:07 PM »
Alexander,
  Which part can be blamed on the Leftists?  Who creates the failed states? 

Looks like an anti-muslim word salad to me...  maybe you have a future in speech writing if Steven Miller retires.

The leftists created the failing states in Europe (anywhere with major Muslim immigration). It isn't anti-Muslim, it is the truth. They are destroying many European countries, they have nothing in common with the native culture, and they are actively involved in obliterating it in most cases. It is a slow process, but it is most definitely happening -- I was last in Berlin in 2017, and will never return, after I was groped on the street by Muslim men and had to witness parades of burqas and niqabs at many major intersections.

As if forcibly covering women and subjecting them to horrific abuse is an acceptable EXCUSE for these people to continue practicing their religion in the western world. Or maybe it's just that German culture is so irreparably broken at the moment that they have no problem committing to their own destruction in exchange for a supply of cheap labor that simultaneously engages in horrific cultural practices, and openly commits to NEVER westernizing. Do you see the problem here?