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KiwiGriff

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #300 on: November 19, 2019, 07:10:13 PM »
Quote
Real communication is when I talk to you in real life with all non-verbal communication
This is how Aspie's get excluded .
We don't grok non verbal communication.  We also don't do monkey chatter.

Part of Greta's success is because she does not play the social game and kowtow to your social norms by self censoring the message.

Quote
“What would happen if the autism gene was eliminated from the gene pool?

You would have a bunch of people standing around in a cave, chatting and socializing and not getting anything done.”
― Temple Grandin,

kassy

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #301 on: November 19, 2019, 07:47:43 PM »
Real communication is when I talk to you in real life with all non-verbal communication
This is how Aspie's get excluded .


That definition is how everything here gets excluded. There are different ways to communicate and they all vary in scope and effect. I much prefer forums over twitter because you can go a bit more in depth with longer messages and attachments as needed. And it has less clutter too.

None of the modern communication forms will go away so just teach wise use but that is hard because the modern facebook mobile phone like addiction thing is new to most adults too.

Then again they technically have to teach the kids that consumerism is bad while that is basically the only thing they have known...
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

SATire

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #302 on: November 19, 2019, 08:03:00 PM »
Then again they technically have to teach the kids that consumerism is bad while that is basically the only thing they have known...
That (consumerism is bad) is basically what the teens are trying to teach us adults. But they have the fear that they are to slow - they have only 10 years left to get us old convinced to getting sober (from consumerism). We are the addicted ones not the young people. Now the old and obviously not so wise people have to follow the youth (see Trump vs. Greta - he made her start FfF as she explained). Strange days.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #303 on: November 19, 2019, 08:16:04 PM »
Never mind “screen time.”  In a few years we can be connected directly to the internet via a neural interface like Neuralink.  Imagine learning anything you want just by thinking about it....  We’re already cyborgs, just with the electronics on the outside.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1392.msg214286.html#msg214286
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

blumenkraft

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #304 on: November 19, 2019, 08:20:25 PM »
neural interface

Now we are talking!  8)
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #305 on: November 19, 2019, 08:47:27 PM »
Quote
None of the modern communication forms will go away so just teach wise use but that is hard because the modern facebook mobile phone like addiction thing is new to most adults too.
Yes.
 Excluding your kids from social media is like abstinence only sex education. Doomed to failure once they grow past  your influence .  Teach the critical thinking skills to sort  wheat from the monkey chatter not just hide your kids from the issues with facetwit et al .

As to neural networks .
Sorry I will give that one a miss. I  have a hard enough time coping with information overload as it is.

The internet and connection revolution is as bigger change as the written and printed word was in the past
It will take generations to discover how much this paradigm shift has changed the human condition.
 

etienne

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #306 on: November 20, 2019, 06:37:36 AM »
Well, one of my sons had an average screen time of 5:30 hours a day, with maximums above 7. I guess you understand that I limited that. And this was only on the smartphone because he also has an Ipad for school and we have a television at home.

TerryM

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #307 on: November 20, 2019, 08:09:22 AM »
Quote
None of the modern communication forms will go away so just teach wise use but that is hard because the modern facebook mobile phone like addiction thing is new to most adults too.
Yes.
 Excluding your kids from social media is like abstinence only sex education. Doomed to failure once they grow past  your influence .  Teach the critical thinking skills to sort  wheat from the monkey chatter not just hide your kids from the issues with facetwit et al .

As to neural networks .
Sorry I will give that one a miss. I  have a hard enough time coping with information overload as it is.

The internet and connection revolution is as bigger change as the written and printed word was in the past
It will take generations to discover how much this paradigm shift has changed the human condition.

Are you familiar with Toffler's 'Third Wave'? A 'futurist' from the past.
He wrote of the 'revolution' you mention & discussed possible ramifications in depth some 40 years ago.


It still seemed fresh in the late 1990's & I've no doubt that at least some of his observations will apply to coming generations.


Carlos Slim, once the richest man in the world, attributed his success to investments based entirely on Toffler's foresight.
We may not be striving for financial gain, but examining this rapidly evolving world through the eyes of one of the first to recognise how profoundly computers were about to change the world could provide insights, even 40 years later.
Terry


rboyd

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #308 on: November 22, 2019, 09:40:47 AM »
I think quite a bit of crony capitalism and monopoly over-pricing for Mexican telecom services helped Mr. Slim amass his fortune.

Quote
And the picture is far from flattering. Omnipresent in the lives of Mexicans, Slim dominates a range of sectors and his fortune is estimated to be 7 percent of the GDP. A fortune that is the product of bold and intelligent decisions, but also of governments and regulators that created him. They propelled him. They protected him. More than an innovative businessman, he emerges as a Mexican prototype of the Russian oligarchs, who have multiplied their fortunes under the shadow of power. He is the main protagonist of the oligarchic capitalism in which influence peddling occupies the void left by the lack of laws and strong governments.

https://mexicovoices.blogspot.com/2015/11/mexicos-crony-capitalism-carlos-slim.html?view=magazine

TerryM

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #309 on: November 22, 2019, 12:33:06 PM »
^^
I never claimed he was a nice, or even an honest person. Anyone extracting such affluence from a population often forced to skip over their northern border in an attempt to feed their family isn't deserving of much empathy.


But he was, according to his own words very impressed by Toffler's predictions.


I'd read The 3d Wave when it first came out, then again after the Soviet Empire imploded (as Toffler had predicted). He also felt that the US wouldn't survive long into the "Information Age" - I'm still holding my breath on that one. ::)
Terry

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #310 on: November 22, 2019, 12:52:18 PM »
neural interface

Now we are talking!  8)
I thought Google was interested in neural in-yer-face. Google will use my data as analysed by AI and flog it to all and sundry and, worse still, to modify my thoughts by guiding my search results to the sites that reflect "Google Family Values", of which XR is not one.
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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #311 on: November 22, 2019, 01:43:58 PM »
When Future Shock came out I read it straight in one sitting, a whole day. I was 12. Very big impression.
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TerryM

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #312 on: November 22, 2019, 03:28:58 PM »
^^
Chomsky and a few others still leave me hugely impressed with their interpretations of the human condition, and our reactions to the evolving political landscape. Google, Facebook and particularly Neuralink scare the hell out of me.
I've enough difficulty sorting and storing my own thoughts, without other's thoughts being beamed into my consciousness with or without an express connection.


I've often found that the process of learning was of more value than the facts the process elicited. Now so many seem bent on feeding me what they claim are facts, with little or no effort on my part.


Athletes and gymnasts know that they need to use their body to stay in physical trim. Google and Facebook seek to ease the loads we mentally manipulate to learn, or maintain what they insist is social interaction, while Neuralink wants us to sit back as they mentally pump iron at our command. (He's also intent on driving my damn car)!


We lost a lot when we gave away our bicycle and bought our first car, now many of us would find commuting by bike a huge inconvenience simply because we've made little use of those muscles over the ensuing years. Why allow our children to make similar mistakes by embracing their phone and letting their mental faculties atrophy. Why allow ourselves to forget the thrill of shaking the hands of new friends or judging a person's physical reactions to our actions, solving our own problems in our own way - or even driving a sports car on a winding road as the wind ruffles what's left of our hair.


Damn, I'm sounding like a boycott prone neo-luddite myself. Should I begin following my own good advise?
Nah
Terry

nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #313 on: November 22, 2019, 07:16:25 PM »
Perhaps it's getting boring for readers, but I want to thank you again for those words. I think they sketch a significant view.
Neo-luddites. I like that :).
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SATire

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #314 on: November 22, 2019, 07:30:51 PM »
Greta on Twitter: They survived the storm by slowing down the boat. Now they are back on track and hope not to be late for the conference.

PS: I am really happy that Twitter exists since Greta posts there and thus it is not dominated by Trump anymore. The problem obviously is not the tech but who uses it -  and not the young people cause the trouble... 

By the way: Next global school strike is on Nov. 29. Help the kids. See you on the streets and not only in the virtual world of this forum ;-)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 07:49:53 PM by SATire »

SATire

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #315 on: December 01, 2019, 01:18:20 AM »
Estimated time of arrival now: Tuesday  :D

nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #316 on: December 02, 2019, 08:35:03 PM »
From The Guardian a beautiful, interesting and perhaps important video:
  by Richard Sprenger et al

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nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #317 on: December 03, 2019, 06:24:49 PM »
  Greta Thunberg arrives in Lisbon after three-week voyage from US

Climate activist heading to COP25 in Madrid after crossing Atlantic on family’s yacht

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/03/greta-thunberg-arrives-in-lisbon-cop25-after-three-week-voyage-from-us
  by Associated Press
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Florifulgurator

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #318 on: December 03, 2019, 08:05:49 PM »
And again someone finds fault with her carbon footprint  ::)  German tabloid of tabloids says: "Again Greta sails not climate neutral"
https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/uno-klimagipfel-greta-thunberg-segelt-wieder-mit-schlechter-co2-bilanz-66418304.bild.html
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blumenkraft

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #319 on: December 03, 2019, 08:12:55 PM »
For context, Bild is the German FoxNews but print.
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SATire

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #320 on: December 03, 2019, 08:15:55 PM »
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 08:45:54 PM by SATire »

nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #321 on: December 04, 2019, 06:46:39 PM »
Greta Thunberg, schoolgirl,16, is having a very hard life, having celebrity status. She has a very strong character.
I wish her strenght and focus (and rest, in a non-moving bed).
(50s)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Florifulgurator

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #322 on: December 05, 2019, 06:18:39 PM »
Want to see other kids for a change? Greta's friend Amy Goodman reports and interviews in Stockholm: Right Livelihood Award & Greta arrival speeches:
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crandles

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #323 on: December 06, 2019, 08:00:58 PM »
"People want everything to continue like now and they are afraid of change," she told reporters.

"And change is what we young people are bringing and that is why they want to silence us and that is just a proof that we are having an impact that our voices are being heard that they try so desperately to silence us."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50680781

Is "try so desperately to silence us"
appropriate? OTT? or ... ?

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #324 on: December 06, 2019, 09:33:59 PM »
From perhaps the cosmoquest forum's top poster:
Quote
I believe we might reach "peak Greta" fairly soon. She's essentially unassailable - no interviewer (at least, not one who wants to stay in a job) is going to ask probing, difficult questions of a child who has significant mental health issues, especially when her current crusade is helping her deal with those issues (at least in the short term). So she isn't being held to account in the same way as, say, a climate scientist. But something will give, because it's an unstable situation unless she actually manages to start a religion (admittedly not outwith the bounds of possibility). I just hope the eventual failure mode is a tolerable one for Thunberg, but I do fear for her.
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Florifulgurator

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #325 on: December 06, 2019, 09:43:51 PM »
Is "try so desperately to silence us"
appropriate? OTT? or ... ?
I've seen this desperation on individual levels here in Germany. E.g. what once was a good old sweet hippie friend of mine turned into an elderly white male spitting bile, condescendingly calling her "Gretel", confessing his total intellectual and moral bankruptcy on Facebook. I had to slap him with Dietrich Bonhoeffer's essay on stupidity and left it there. Many elderly white alpha males are wailing in the agony of their intellectual-moral castration. It is a significant part of the population. Methinks the less one cares about them the better. Leave the sorry old clowns behind.

P.S.: Coincidentally Tom quotes a perfect example. "Religion" Hahaaaaaaahahahaha.....
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 09:49:31 PM by Florifulgurator »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #326 on: December 07, 2019, 04:54:25 PM »
Quote
Bill McKibben (@billmckibben) 12/6/19, 1:56 PM
Gotta love the call-and-response from some NYC climate strikers today! #FridaysForFuture
https://twitter.com/billmckibben/status/1203025353977081856
14-second video clip.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #327 on: December 07, 2019, 05:49:16 PM »
Want to see other kids for a change? Greta's friend Amy Goodman reports and interviews in Stockholm: Right Livelihood Award & Greta arrival speeches:
<snip>

Thanks Florifulgurator for that video. It brought tears to my eyes :).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #328 on: December 08, 2019, 05:36:54 PM »
Remember, this is a 16yo schoolgirl. Deep respect for this human. I admire her focus and courage. Take care of yourself Greta.

(58s)
Greta Thunberg faces media hysteria as she arrives in Madrid
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Hefaistos

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #329 on: December 09, 2019, 05:35:10 AM »
Nice interview with Greta in Dagens Nyheter, the leading Swedish daily newspaper.
On her preparations for giving a speech at COP, there will be no more 'emotional stuff':

"Have you written the speech yet?

– No. But I know approximately what it is going to be like.

What is your line of reasoning?

– Apparently I am quite bad at giving speeches. Because what people bring up from the speech in New York is me sitting and saying: ”How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood” and that is not what I want to communicate. I want to communicate facts. And if you leave out what the rest of the speech is all about, if you only take out three sentences, then that makes me sound like an idiot.

What are you going to say?

– I don’t give speeches so that I in some magical way will talk world leaders into realizing that I am right and they are wrong. My long term goal is that the gap between what science is saying and what is actually being done is made so clear that it can no longer be ignored. So now I am not going to give them any emotional stuff. Now they will get real content. "

https://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/greta-thunberg-in-exclusive-interview-the-hope-lies-in-the-fact-that-people-dont-know-what-is-going-on/

nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #330 on: December 09, 2019, 09:34:53 AM »
If you're interested.


In 1 hour time (at 10.30 in Madrid): LIVESTREAM

"Fridays For Future" with Greta and others

https://unfccc-cop25.streamworld.de/webcast/press-conference-by-greta-thunberg-luisa-neubauer-
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Florifulgurator

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #331 on: December 09, 2019, 06:52:03 PM »
Nice interview with Greta in Dagens Nyheter, the leading Swedish daily newspaper.
Yeah. But I would say it is magnificient. :)
Required reading for Greta haters. This is no stupid little girl.
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nanning

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Re: Greta Thunberg's Atlantic crossing
« Reply #332 on: Today at 08:23:00 AM »
If you're interested.
COP25
In half an hour time (at 8.45 in Madrid): LIVESTREAM

"Unite Behind The Science event with Greta Thunberg and Luisa Neubauer"

https://unfccc-cop25.streamworld.de/webcast/unite-behind-the-science-event-with-greta-thunberg


edit: having watched it: Really great and clear speeches and no ESLD :)
« Last Edit: Today at 11:39:26 AM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome