Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery  (Read 8227 times)

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2020, 09:12:33 PM »
A new row of candidates in the ESS further south.

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2020, 11:06:05 AM »
S1 close up of the lower candidate in the above post. The small island in blue, something just visible in the possible shoal area (marked, top left).  cffr

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2020, 08:54:13 PM »
Another candidate (seen before) further east of NSI. 2 are visible on these images. ctr

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2020, 12:36:20 PM »
ESS-4S, 72.77N 161.30 is visible again. https://go.nasa.gov/3a59ov2

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2020, 11:20:04 PM »
using rammb to verify anchored ice.  https://col.st/U5EeI
2 in this image
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 11:27:00 PM by uniquorn »

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1640
  • None but ourselves can free our minds...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 522
  • Likes Given: 764
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2020, 09:14:11 PM »
Blum just told me about this thread, so I'll duplicate my message from the newbie thread here.

Last year we had a small discussion here about grounding icebergs in the Arctic ocean, because I thought that one got stuck on the seafloor in the ESS.

This year I'm seeing that bottom-fast ice again (bottom right corner), and it's doing something weird. It seems to be blocking a whole lot of ice inbetween it, and another bigger piece of fast ice.

I noticed it yesterday already, but waited another day to see if that very little piece of ice against that little round piece of BFI would be able to hold that entire icebridge in place. And it seems it was. Quite amazing...  :o

Ocean depth there is around 15 meter according to this GMRT map tool, and I haven't found prove yet that this ice is stuck on an underwater island. Although I do believe that's what it is that this fast ice is stuck to. Maybe someone should take a dive there to update the bathymetry charts?

Anyway...
What do you think is happening here?
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2020, 10:39:50 PM »
what is the lat/lon?

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1640
  • None but ourselves can free our minds...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 522
  • Likes Given: 764
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2020, 10:58:08 PM »
It's in the moose head in the ESS. Worldview.
Is there an easy way to copy those Lat/Lon numbers from Worldview?
The little one is 73°14.000'N, 151°04.000'E
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2020, 11:26:16 PM »
Please see post#34. Thanks for confirming their reappearance this year. There are some suggestions for causes upthread also.

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2020, 03:28:51 PM »
3 or 4 large areas of anchored ice in the Laptev.
uni-hamburg amsr2-uhh, may1-22.

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2020, 12:01:56 AM »
cross postinghttps://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2417.msg268267.html#msg268267
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/8/1/4/htm
Sea-Ice Wintertime Lead Frequencies and Regional Characteristics in the Arctic, 2003–2015
by Sascha Willmes and Günther Heinemann
Quote
and in the East Siberian Sea, some less known features exhibiting high lead frequencies are indicated north of the Kolyma Gulf (D).

« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 12:09:16 AM by uniquorn »

blumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2020, 03:12:45 PM »
Due to a request from Freegrass. i repost the GIF i posted in the Melting Chatter thread.

Location: ESS. Band: Day&Night via RAMMB-SLIDER.


Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1640
  • None but ourselves can free our minds...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 522
  • Likes Given: 764
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2020, 03:23:39 PM »
Thanks Blum. I'm sure Uniquorn will appreciate this.
Can we call this The New Siberian Islands Barrier Reef?
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

blumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2020, 03:52:33 PM »
I'm not in the naming business but go ahead. The maker is always right. ;)

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2020, 08:26:39 PM »
Thanks. The anchored ice has been quite spectacular with such quick melt. Not sure if this paper was linked to before. This year may pose problems for subsea permafrost.

Understanding the Permafrost–Hydrate System and Associated Methane Releases in the East Siberian Arctic Shelf
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3263/9/6/251/htm
Quote
2.2. Current State of Subsea Permafrost
ESAS permafrost stability is the key to whether pre-formed CH4 sequestered in hydrate deposits escapes to the overlying strata. Warming of the ESAS began >12 thousand years (kyr) ago at the beginning of the Holocene after the ESAS was inundated by sea water due to rising sea level. Terrestrial permafrost in the Holocene Arctic experienced a change in its thermal regime caused by a 6–7 °C mean annual air temperature increase since the last glacial maximum [31]. Subsea permafrost has been subjected to additional warming induced by sea water; in the ESAS, sea water is much warmer than air (mean annual air temperature of −10 °C vs. mean annual sea water temperature of −1 °C). Consequently, the subsea permafrost has warmed by up to 17 °C during the last 12 kyrs [23,32]. It has been suggested that the following factors determine the evolution of subsea permafrost after inundation: duration of submergence compared to duration of previous exposure above the sea surface; thermal state and thickness of permafrost before inundation; coastal morphology and hydro- and lithodynamics; shoreline configuration and retreat rate; pre-existing thermokarst (thermokarst is the process by which characteristic landforms result from the thawing of ice-rich permafrost or the melting of massive ice) accompanied by formation of thaw lakes; bottom water temperature and salinity; and sediment composition, including ice content

added JayW's ani for reference
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 08:45:33 PM by uniquorn »

uniquorn

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1285
  • Likes Given: 258
Re: 'implausibly stationary ice' as a method of shoal discovery
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2020, 11:51:16 PM »
shoal hunter  ;)