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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2022, 04:19:47 PM »
Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass loss to November 21 published by JPL

Graph attached.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2022, 04:27:51 PM »
More data from GRACE-FO on AIS from GFZ-  ice sheet mass change by individual drainage basins to November 21.

click images to enlarge
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2022, 02:03:42 PM »
More data from GRACE-FO on AIS from GFZ-  ice sheet mass change in total, by region & by individual drainage basins to December 21.

Overall mass loss continues to show an accelerating trend.

This is especially so in the West region - basins 21-23 the most spectacular.

Look also at basin 12 at around 120 East (Wilkes Land), now with the 4th highest mass loss of the 25 basins used by GTZ.

click images to enlarge
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2022, 12:40:18 PM »
Attached is the GRACE-FO Antarctic Ice sheet mass loss graph from data provided by JPL - total only - no analysis by drainage basin.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2022, 11:21:21 AM »
Attached is the GRACE-FO Antarctic Ice sheet mass loss graph from data provided by JPL
- data to May 22
- total only
- no analysis by drainage basin***.

Note the unusually high ice-sheet mass gains in recent months.
This is in complete contrast with extremely low SEA ICE extent and area in Antarctica this year.

click image to enlarge
______________________________________________________________
***  The German Research Centre for Geosciences (GFZ) has an agreement with NASA to participate in the GRACE-FO project. As part of that GFZ provided mass loss data by drainange basin for both the AIS and the GIS. No data after Dec 21 has been provided.

I am now told that GFZ are going to relaunch a website providing GRACE-FO data but when I do not know.
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The Walrus

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2022, 01:49:36 PM »
Perhaps the recent massive snows that have befallen South America have reached the frozen continent.

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2022, 04:28:49 PM »
Attached is the GRACE-FO Antarctic Ice sheet mass loss graph from data provided by JPL
- data is to mid-June 22.

Mid-May to mid-June saw a fairly large 200GT mass loss
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2022, 07:58:10 PM »
https://podaac-tools.jpl.nasa.gov/drive/files/allData/tellus/L4/ice_mass/RL06/v02/mascon_CRI

JPL has produced GRACE+GRACE-FO data for Antarctic Mass Change up to mid-July 2022.

The graph attached shows that the AIS mass showed a greater than usual mass gain up to June 2022.

click image to enlarge
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2022, 10:32:49 PM »
GFZ - Helmholtz Cenre, Potsdam has also produced Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Loss Data from GRACE/GRACE-FO data to July 22. It is also by basins (see 1st image) and I group them into regions.

The greatest mass loss continues in 3 basins (Nos 20,21,22) bordering the Amundsen sea in West Antarctica. Wilkes Land (basin 12) in East Antarctica also is losing significant ice.

Overall, over the last 3 years or so the spikes of highs and lows are far more pronounced - (as is happening with sea ice). This adds to my speculations on increasing erratic unstable behaviour in the Antarctica ice.

click images to enlarge
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Steven

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2023, 11:14:05 AM »
2022/2023 melt season update from NSIDC:

Extensive melting in West Antarctica and the Peninsula
http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/2023/01/extensive-melting-in-west-antarctica-and-the-peninsula/

Quote
As the peak of Antarctica’s melt season approaches, surface snow melting has been widespread over coastal West Antarctica, with much of the low-lying areas of the Peninsula and northern West Antarctic coastline showing 5 to 10 days more melting than average. However, much of the East Antarctic coast is near average. Snowfall in Antarctica for the past year has been exceptionally high as a result of an above average warm and wet winter and spring.




Steven

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2023, 10:05:54 PM »
New update from NSIDC:

http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/2023/02/widespread-melting-and-ponded-water-on-the-peninsula-ice-shelves/

Quote
Surface melting over Antarctica was near-average through January, but above average surface melting occurred on both the northeastern and southwestern areas of the Antarctic Peninsula. This has led to extensive ponding of melt on the surface in several areas. Elsewhere, surface melting lagged behind the average pace in January with the exception of the Roi Baudouin Ice Shelf.

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2023, 01:40:06 PM »
Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Loss
JPL have restarted at last the monthly update of Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Gains & Losses, latest is to mid November 2022.

Since the extreme mass gain in early 2022 there has been little change in ice sheet mass.
I have seen no explanation for this.

One of the many gaping holes in our knowledge of Antarctica is changes to sureface mass balance such as we have for Greenland. I looked agin on Goohle Scholar, and all I could find were highly technical papers on the various models.

Greenland today produce some melt data, (see below) but apart from suggestions that snowfall may increase as more moist air penetrates the continent, there are no real regular updates of SMB.

GFZ - Helmholtz Cenre, Potsdam has also produced Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Loss Data from GRACE/GRACE-FO data to July 22. It is also by 28 basins which gave us the distribution of mass gains and losses over the regions of Antarctica. They promise updates will resume - but funding is a problem as updating to basin level is a complicated lengthy business.

https://nsidc.org/greenland-today/
A crumbling ice shelf edge after a warm summer and low sea ice
Quote
March 27, 2023
The Antarctic Peninsula has had an intense melt season with above average melting persisting through much of February. Saturated snow from a high melt year and low sea ice in Bellingshausen Sea have led to a series of minor calving events on the Wilkins Ice Shelf. Elsewhere in Antarctica, melting was near average.

Melting of the Antarctic Ice Sheet from November to mid-March followed a pattern, where both sides of the Antarctic Peninsula had extensive and frequent melting while elsewhere along the coast patches of melt rarely exceeded 10 days for the season (Figure 1a). However, these small totals represent an above average melt season for the Getz and Roi Baudoin Ice Shelves. In the Peninsula, the northern half of the Larsen C Ice Shelf experienced up to 60 days of melt between November 1 and March 15. During that same time period, some areas of the Larsen C Ice Shelf showed more than 30 days of melt above the average melt days for the 1990 to 2020 reference period (Figure 1b). The Wilkins Ice Shelf, southwest of the Peninsula, had over 70 days of surface melting for the same time period. Overall, Antarctica’s seasonal melt-day total was slightly higher than the 1990 to 2020 average, with significant melt extent events (exceeding the upper decile range) around December 20, January 20, and February 5. Although some groups reported high temperatures and melting over the Ross Ice Shelf in early January, satellite measurements reported no evidence of melting there at that time.

In the latter part of the melt season, melting was limited almost entirely to the Peninsula areas. The northern Larsen C continued to see above-average melting, with 10 days more than average in the 45-day window (Figure 1c). However, the frequency of melting slightly for the Wilkins and George VI Ice Shelf areas, and the extensive melt ponding seen in December and January slowly froze over.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2023, 12:43:09 PM »
Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Loss
JPL have updated Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Gains & Losses, latest is to mid February 2023.

Since the extreme mass gain in early 2022 ice sheet mass loss remains well above the linear trend.
I have seen no explanation for this.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2023, 12:10:30 AM »
Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Loss
NASA / JPL have updated Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Gains & Losses, latest is to mid May 2023.

Since the extreme mass gain in early 2022 ice sheet mass loss remains well above the linear trend.
I have seen no explanation for this.
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HapHazard

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2023, 01:14:24 AM »
Link: https://zacklabe.com/climate-viz-of-the-month/

Climate Viz of the Month - June 2023

Quote from: snippet
In summary, the ongoing extreme sea ice event is likely due to a combination of atmospheric and oceanic drivers that are subject to local (changes within the Antarctic) and remote forcing (teleconnections from areas like the central Pacific). The factors are effectively constructively interfering together to produce such a large sea ice deviation/record at a single time. The key variables affecting the sea ice are anomalous winds from storms and upper ocean heat. As for what summer may look like in the Antarctic… Well, I don’t know. There is very low predictability for summertime sea ice conditions using only information from the previous winter. This is again due to the importance of regional weather conditions. If we see a dramatic change in the large-scale atmospheric circulation in the next few weeks/months, it is very possible that sea ice levels could return closer to average. This is good news, as it implies that we are not necessarily guaranteed to see another new minimum record at the end of next summer.
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John_the_Younger

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2023, 02:48:49 AM »
Quote
Since the extreme mass gain in early 2022 ice sheet mass loss remains well above the linear trend.
I have seen no explanation for this.
From time to time someone states that warmer conditions in cold climates (e.g., at the poles) allows for more atmospheric water vapor and therefore more snowfall.  At some point "'warmer" means rain, but when you're starting with -40 or -80C, there is lots of room for "warmer" and "snow."  This is "an" explanation but possible not "the" explanation.

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2023, 10:09:40 PM »
Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Loss
NASA / JPL have updated Antarctic Ice Sheet Mass Gains & Losses, latest is to mid June 2023.

Sme comment here as in last posting:-
Since the extreme mass gain in early 2022 ice sheet mass loss remains well above the linear trend.
I have seen no explanation for this.
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kiwichick16

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2023, 05:28:36 AM »
3  La Nina years and a neutral SOI year???

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2023, 03:49:28 PM »
Antarctic Ice Sheet (AIS) Mass Loss

At last GFZ have updated their AIS Mass Loss data from GRACE-FO after a long, long time. (They have no funding to produce this data).

It is only to March 2023 - but that is better than September 2022, and once again we now have data by drainage basins (see map).

AIS Mass Loss has basically stalled for some time which seems to correspond with the La Nina timeframe (see kiwichick16's post above). Coincidence?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 08:37:05 AM by oren »
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Bart Vreeken

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2023, 09:14:01 PM »
We are still waiting for the update of the GRACE data...

I have put the data from GRACE (NASA) and Imbie3 together in one figure. It is noticeable that the line goes down steeper at GRACE than at IMBIE. What is your thoughts on that?



And this is what IMBIE says. In 2020 is only one study available. I suppose that's the NASA one.




I'm new here, by the way. I've been writing about weather and climate on a Dutch/Belgian forum for some time now and I live near Amsterdam.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2023, 09:23:44 PM by Bart Vreeken »

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2023, 10:02:38 PM »
Hullo Bart,

The GRACE / GRACE-FO analysis from NASA/JPL also differs somewhat from that produced by GFZ in Germany.

The GRACE-FO data is the mass change of the Antarctic Continent. To produce Ice Sheet Mass change it is then adjusted for estimates of, among other things, negative and positive glacial rebound, which is apparently a massive computing exercise and uses much scientists time, as the adjustments are open to debate.

GFZ and NASA/JPL emailed me some time ago to explain that this was the major reason for delays in publishing results. Hence also the tables produced show quite a large 1 sigma uncertainty figure.

ps: All new members, especially those who post, are much appreciated.
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Bart Vreeken

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2023, 02:42:40 PM »
Hi gerontocrat

Thanks for the reply and your welcome.  :)

I have always wondered why it takes so long for the data to be published. It seems that they are waiting for additional data (next gravimetry? altimetry?). The indicated uncertainty in the latest records is always the greatest. And that's where the most changes with new updates.


gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2023, 06:41:20 PM »
GFZ have updated the AIS Mass Loss monthly data to mid-June 2023. (Note that GFZ and JPL-NASA both go mid-month to mid-month)

Basically the hiatus in AIS Mass Loss continues. This could be the result of increased Surface Mass Balance (SMB) counteracting surface melting, calving and basal melting of ice shelves and marine-terminating glaciers. After all, a warmer than average Antarctica this year may well mean greater incursions of warmer wetter air onto the Antarctic continent.
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kassy

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2023, 01:46:33 PM »
Antarctica's ancient ice sheets foreshadow dynamic changes in Earth's future


Nineteen million years ago, during a time known as the early Miocene, massive ice sheets in Antarctica rapidly and repeatedly grew and receded. The Miocene is widely considered a potential analog for Earth's climate in the coming century, should humanity remain on its current carbon emissions trajectory.

Identifying how and why Antarctica's major ice sheets behaved the way they did in the early Miocene could help inform understanding of the sheets' behavior under a warming climate.

Together, the ice sheets lock a volume of water equivalent to more than 50 meters of sea level rise and influence ocean currents that affect marine food webs and regional climates.

Their fate has profound consequences for life nearly everywhere on Earth.

While fluctuations in Antarctica's ice sheets have, over the span of millions of years, grown and diminished at regular intervals tied to natural oscillations in Earth's journey in orbit, researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and their collaborators around the world have uncovered evidence that Antarctica's ice sheets grew and shrank more frequently during the Miocene epoch than was previously known.

This new evidence, published recently in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, indicates that between about 19.2 and 18.8 million years ago, the ice sheets grew and receded multiple times over cycles of just a few thousand years.

That is much more rapidly than can be explained by periodic shifts in the planet's orbit and rotational axis, known as Milankovitch cycles, which typically advance slowly, altering Earth's climate and ice sheets over tens or hundreds of thousands of years.

"Our observation of this rapid volatility of the Antarctic ice sheets raises the interesting question of what's causing it," says Nick Sullivan, a 2022 UW-Madison PhD graduate who led the analysis for his dissertation research.

The study offers an unprecedented window into the sheets' past behavior, and it relies on a well-preserved sediment record from the Antarctic Drilling Project, or ANDRILL.

The project was an international scientific collaboration to gather evidence of past climatic conditions via sediment and rock drilled from hundreds of meters below the Antarctic seabed.

In 2006 and 2007, drilling in McMurdo Sound off the coast of Antarctica in an area influenced by both of the continent's large ice sheets recovered detailed sediment records from the Miocene, close to the ice sheet.

"We could clearly see the influence of long-term climate cycles on ice sheet extent in the rock and sediment cores we recovered in 2007, but our initial observations weren't detailed enough to detect shorter-term changes," says co-author Richard Levy, a professor at Victoria University of Wellington and principal scientist at GNS Science, a public research institute in New Zealand.

The latest analysis led by Sullivan now allows scientists to "document past ice sheet change on timescales as short as five centuries or so," says Stephen Meyers, a UW-Madison geoscience professor who worked with Sullivan in his analysis.

In fact, Meyers calls it a remarkable archive.

That's because it contains small bits of gravel that fell to the seafloor as icebergs drifted away from the ice sheets after breaking away.

The amount of gravel in ocean sediment records ice sheet changes, such as when the edge of an ice sheet gets closer to or further away from that particular part of the seafloor.

While testing for evidence of Milankovitch cycles within the sediment, Sullivan found variations in the abundance of gravel, suggesting nearby ice sheets advanced and retreated in recurring intervals as brief as 1,200 years.

It's unclear what triggered the ice sheets to advance and retreat at these geologically frequent intervals, but the team proposes several potential causes based on prior studies of ice sheets.

One idea suggests that the ice sheets, building up over time, became steeper and top heavy, leading them to collapse.

Another proposes that as thick ice sheets advanced over rough terrain, heat from friction helped to temporarily speed them up.

"There are likely multiple mechanisms that were going on and interacting with each other," says Sullivan, including variations in the local climate and the ocean.

...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231130121938.htm

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kiwichick16

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2023, 10:01:07 PM »
@  kassy .....  ice retreated in as little as 1,200 years ....... multiply by 10 ? , as the current rate of warming , as i understand it , is at least 10 times faster than anything in the geological record

kassy

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2023, 01:06:36 AM »
It is not as linear as that especially since it is a melt and growth cycle. However it is another hint.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2023, 02:57:35 PM »
We now have JPL / NASA Grace-FO data for Antarctic Ice Sheet mass to mid-September 2023.

Mass Loss continues to stall

Could it be that the Antarctic, as for Greenland, is getting warmer and wetter, and at the moment the increasing snowfall exceeds increased surface melting, resulting in higher SMB gains?
My understanding is that there is data approaching zero on snowfall on Antarctica.

The data for the Antarctic summer will be one to watch.
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Bart Vreeken

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2023, 09:42:30 AM »
Thank you for the update, gerontocrat! Where did you find the data? There is no update on the site of NASA yet ('Vital Signs').

Quote
My understanding is that there is data approaching zero on snowfall on Antarctica

You can find precipitation data with the KNMI Climate Explorer. You can make your own maps there. Like this one (precipitation September - November 2023 compared with earlier years)

https://climexp.knmi.nl/atlas/maps/ERA5/diff_era5_tp_2023-2023_minus_2001-2022_mon9_ave3_withsd_mean_Antarcticland.pdf
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 10:10:59 AM by Bart Vreeken »

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2023, 02:55:59 PM »
Thank you for the update, gerontocrat! Where did you find the data? There is no update on the site of NASA yet ('Vital Signs').

Quote
My understanding is that there is data approaching zero on snowfall on Antarctica

You can find precipitation data with the KNMI Climate Explorer. You can make your own maps there. Like this one (precipitation September - November 2023 compared with earlier years)

https://climexp.knmi.nl/atlas/maps/ERA5/diff_era5_tp_2023-2023_minus_2001-2022_mon9_ave3_withsd_mean_Antarcticland.pdf
Thanks for the link, Bart.

The JPL/NASA Ice sheet data is held on the NASA EarthData Cloud, which has vast amounts of data to be found if you can navigate the awkward internal search engine.

I show below the links to GIS and AIS mass loss data below. You are likely to find you have to login to Earthdata to download, which also requires registering with them at first, not a big deal. When they asked me for my institution I wrote "Arctic Sea Ice Forum".

https://search.earthdata.nasa.gov/search/granules?p=C2537009236-POCLOUD&pg[0][v]=f&pg[0][gsk]=-start_date&q=Greenland&fl=4%2B-%2BGridded%2BModel%2BOutput&tl=1681467118.629!3!!

https://search.earthdata.nasa.gov/search/granules?p=C2537006834-POCLOUD&pg[0][v]=f&pg[0][gsk]=-start_date&q=Antarctic&fl=4%2B-%2BGridded%2BModel%2BOutput&tl=1681467118.629!3!!
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Bart Vreeken

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #79 on: December 12, 2023, 11:31:15 AM »
Thanks for the link, gerontocrat. I already had an account with EarthData, but I usually get the data from the 'Vital Signs' page. No update has been posted there yet. The latest download turns out to be quite different from the previous one. All numbers are different from the previous version. Apparently, a total recalculation has been made. The changes are between -39.7 Gigatons (March 2017) and +104.4 Gigatons (May 2021). As a result, the difference with the trend calculated by IMBIE has become slightly smaller. Below are the differences for the last 5 years.



Then about the trend in the last few years and the last few months. To understand the numbers, it's good to take a look at the seasonal cycle. In Antarctica it is much less clear than in Greenland. However, most mass loss occurs in the summer, November, December, January and February. But the spread is very large. Below is the mass change between (halfway) the mentioned month and the previous month for all available dates. In addition to the summer months, there also appears to be a dip in June and July. I can't explain that. Anyone ...? Maybe wind direction?



Below is the same in numbers, for the years from 2019 onwards (GRACE FO). The strong growth in April 2021, 2022 and 2023 is striking. In 2022, this was caused by an Atmospheric River that brought in very mild and humid air.


« Last Edit: December 12, 2023, 01:57:22 PM by Bart Vreeken »

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #80 on: December 12, 2023, 12:14:11 PM »
All numbers are different from the previous version. Apparently, a total recalculation has been made. The changes are between -39.7 Gigatons (March 2017) and +104.4 Gigatons (May 2021). As a result, the difference with the trend calculated by IMBIE has become slightly smaller. Below are the differences for the last 5 years.
Thanks for the links, Bart.
They (and GFZ) quite often do a recalculation going several years back. I think they are revising the maths that deal with glacial rebound among other things.
GRACE data analysis is definitely a work-in-progress.
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Bart Vreeken

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #81 on: December 12, 2023, 02:14:40 PM »
Yes, the GIA correction shall be the most tough part in the calculation.

I think the IMBIE project is a good way to compare the different measurement methods. This can lead to further improvement.

The striking thing about the JPL data is that the corrections are clearly larger than the stated uncertainty.

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2023, 09:59:45 PM »
Mike MacFerrin created a Mastodon thread that is updated daily with the latest surface melt data for the Antarctic ice sheet/shelves:

https://spore.social/@icesheetmike/111602464400034454

sidd

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2023, 02:39:16 AM »
Thanks for the link. I see Amery is melting .

sidd

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2023, 01:40:07 PM »
Nice. Bookmarked.

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2023, 03:23:14 PM »
Worldview is also showing changes - Larsen A fast ice is very blue and breaking up today.
Amery is melting but doesn't form the big pools of water as it has done in the past?
More cloud obscuring the coastline and ice as the season "warms!".
The latest AMSR2_Antarctic_SIC-LEADS.gif (from oren, Antarctic melting season) shows the spectacular loss of sea ice in a month.

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2024, 10:13:39 AM »
There is a new update to Antarctica's mass data, now through October 2023.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/ice-sheets/

We see a big jump down. Between September and October 2023, 136 gigatons of mass were lost, according to NASA. As far as we know, this is the largest mass loss in October since the start of GRACE's measurements.



There is no data per basin (GFZ) yet, so we can't see where the mass loss is coming from, and what the possible cause of that is.

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2024, 02:14:02 PM »
Yes, a big monthly AIS mass Loss in October. But the cumulative mass loss from 2002 at 2,399GT is still below the maximum loss of 2,462 GT in January 2023.

The hiatus in mass loss started in Mid 2022.

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2024, 03:05:50 PM »
A new overview of the Surface Mass Balance of Antarctica on the site of the University of Liège.



Source: https://www.climato.uliege.be/cms/c_5652669/fr/climato-antarctica

The SMB is well above the average of 1981-2010, but not as much as last year. As expected, as warming continues, there will be more snow, but also more melt. We're seeing both happening now. For the moment, only a small part of the meltwater flows off to the sea.



Not all effects of high temperatures and melts can be seen in the SMB. It can also affect the flow rate of the ice, as well as calving.

Bart Vreeken

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #89 on: February 06, 2024, 03:35:49 PM »
There is an update to Antarctica's mass data, now through November 2023.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/ice-sheets



Still a more than average mass loss (55 Gigatons), despite the favorable course of the Surface Mass Balance in this period.


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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2024, 06:33:58 PM »
& as luck would have it, GFZ have just updated their analaysis of GRACE-FO AIS Mass Loss to October 2023, and includes data by 25 drainage basins. I have also produced an analysis by regions based mostly on the colours used in the basins map.

Ice Mass Loss in the WAIS is already somewhat extreme.
While overall Mass Loss of the AIS since early 2002 is just 2,348 GT, in the relatively small area of the WAIS and the Peninsula it is 4,079 GT, just under 200 GT a year. (AIS Mass continues to increase over much of the rest of Antarctica.)

Nearly all of that 4,000 GT is in just 3 smallish drainage basins fronting the coast of the Amundsen Sea. In much of these basins, mass loss since 2002 equates to up to 8 tons per square metre.

In the East of Antarctica significant mass loss (433 GT) has occurred in just one basin (No 12) fronting the West Pacfic Region, which includes Wilkes Land.

ps: Much of this also posted on the "Potential Collapse Scenario for the WAIS" thread (Reply #533)
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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #91 on: February 15, 2024, 09:43:12 PM »
A new study on the future of the Antarctic ice sheet. The influence of different factors (atmosphere, ocean, topography) and how they interact with each other was examined.

Disentangling the drivers of future Antarctic ice loss with a historically calibrated ice-sheet model
https://tc.copernicus.org/articles/18/653/2024/

They come to a remarkable result: in the coming decades, the increased snowfall seems to be enough to compensate for the increased melt. That will change later in this century. After 2100, the mass loss of the ice sheet will continue to increase.

Below are the results of the mass loss (= sea level rise) up to 2100 and up to the year 3000 for the highest emission scenario SSP5-8.5. It is noticeable that there are huge margins in it; Apparently, much is still unclear about how the ice sheet will react.






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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2024, 06:45:52 PM »
I'm a little confused. A new report from the WMO provides a graph of the mass change of the Antarctic ice sheet. The figure comes from Isabella Velicogna, affiliated with the University of California and JPL.

https://library.wmo.int/viewer/68835/download?file=1347_Statement_2023_en.pdf&type=pdf&navigator=1



The figure is very different from NASA's data, which also comes from JPL.
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/ice-sheets/

In the figure in the WMO report, Antarctica's mass loss since 2002 is much less than NASA's. There has also been a stronger increase since 2021. What's going on?

gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2024, 07:40:30 PM »
I'm a little confused. A new report from the WMO provides a graph of the mass change of the Antarctic ice sheet. The figure comes from Isabella Velicogna, affiliated with the University of California and JPL.

The figure is very different from NASA's data, which also comes from JPL.

In the figure in the WMO report, Antarctica's mass loss since 2002 is much less than NASA's. There has also been a stronger increase since 2021. What's going on?
Not a clue - I downloaded the JPL data from the earhdata cloud again just to make sure of no changes.

As far as I am concerned data from the source is the one to use, and the source is JPL.
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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2024, 08:07:13 PM »
On Velicogna's website it says:

Quote
Isabella Velicogna is a Professor of Earth System Sciences at the University of California Irvine and a Faculty Part time at NASA/Caltech’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory

https://www.ess.uci.edu/~velicogna/pi.html

So maybe it's not based on a JPL publication ...  Or maybe the JPL data will be adjusted later as well. I've been expecting them to be adjusted upwards for a while now (less mass loss) because GRACE/JPL calculates more mass loss than the average of IMBIE. There must be a reason why WMO publishes this.

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2024, 09:27:44 PM »
I plotted the last part of the data (GRACE FO) in one graph:



The data by Velicogna goes much more up and down and the overall trend is more positive.

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2024, 08:09:26 AM »
Below the figure with the full data from Velicogna and NASA/JPL. I have asked the WMO for an explanation of the figure by Velicogna. Maybe a different calculation of the GIA?



« Last Edit: March 23, 2024, 10:56:59 AM by Bart Vreeken »

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #97 on: March 23, 2024, 07:54:03 PM »
It refers to this OA article:

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2020GL087291

Continuity of Ice Sheet Mass Loss in Greenland and Antarctica From the GRACE and GRACE Follow-On Missions

Abstract
We examine data continuity between the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) and GRACE Follow-On (FO) missions over Greenland and Antarctica using independent data from the mass budget method, which calculates the difference between ice sheet surface mass balance and ice discharge at the periphery.

...

5 Conclusions
We demonstrate data continuity for the GRACE and GRACE-FO missions over the Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheets at both the continental and regional scales using independent data from the MBM. The GRACE and GRACE-FO data line up across the data gap and the excellent agreement between GRACE and the MBM data helps fill the data gap at the continental and regional scales. Noteworthy features include the large summer loss of 2019, one of the largest on record, captured by GRACE-FO, the persistent snowfall in Queen Maud Land since 2009, and a pause in the acceleration in mass loss in Greenland and Antarctica for the joint GRACE/GRACE-FO period compared to the GRACE period alone. We note, however, that the longer record from MBM still indicates increasing mass loss from both ice sheets and increasing contributions to sea level rise.

...

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2020GL087291

My guess is that the difference in the data is that one is just the recent data and that the other is adjusted using the other method. Also see fig 3 in the paper.

That´s my guess. Let´s see if they answer.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #98 on: March 23, 2024, 09:05:08 PM »
Meanwhile JPL has issued ice sheet mass loss data to Dec 2023

A modest mass loss of 32GT in December, total mass loss 2002 to date 2,501GT, still 297GT below the record mass loss of 2,798GT in Jan 2021.

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Re: Antarctic Ice Sheet
« Reply #99 on: March 25, 2024, 10:30:01 AM »
Thanks, Kassy and gerontocrat!

Indeed, in the article by Velicogna et al from 2020 we already see a similar course of the ice mass. But that doesn't solve the question. Figure 1b lists three sources: CSR, JPL and GFZ. All with the addition RL06. What is that exactly?

https://grace.jpl.nasa.gov/data/get-data/jpl_global_mascons/

Does the RL06 version give a different result than the datasets from JPL and GFZ that can be downloaded?

« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 11:04:19 AM by Bart Vreeken »