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Sebastian Jones

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #100 on: October 15, 2020, 05:46:11 AM »
I have discovered a fundamental rule of living nature:

           If you kill a lifeform on purpose, you have to eat it.
'Discovered' or invented?

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2020, 09:26:53 AM »
What do you mean by that?
I do not like your response to a major discovery of mine. Perhaps you don't understand it but then you shouldn' react like this.
Is this because you think you are 'higher' than me? Or a better scientist?

Are you a bully perchance?
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Sebastian Jones

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2020, 06:11:50 AM »
What do you mean by that?
I do not like your response to a major discovery of mine. Perhaps you don't understand it but then you shouldn' react like this.
Is this because you think you are 'higher' than me? Or a better scientist?

Are you a bully perchance?
Oh, I'm terribly sorry Nanning, I really meant no offence. I could perhaps have inserted a wink emoji to indicate I was not being very serious.
Perhaps I did not really understand your post, in which case I should have said so.
As it happens, I think the rule you describe is more aspirational than fundamental.

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2020, 09:41:08 AM »
Please respect my expertise in this Sebastian. And please find a contradiction or counter example if you've been 'thinking' about it. That would be helpful :).
I am a scientist and do my science and thinking outside. For more than 5 years now.
It must be comfortable to be able to put away my findings just like that. But hey, I am used to it. No hard feelings.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

SimonF92

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2020, 10:31:49 AM »
Infanticide happens in certain large predator species. Orcas are also recorded to "torture" seals to death and then not eat them. Chimps engage in deadly tribal warfare without eating each other. Even certain corvidae birds will intentionally kill each other over territorial disputes
Bunch of small python Arctic Apps:
https://github.com/SimonF92/Arctic

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #105 on: October 16, 2020, 10:37:08 AM »
Thanks for engaging SimonF92. Interesting.
Could you please provide some links?
I want to be able to see how much of the interpretations are suffering from civilisation bias/anthropomorphism and include the possibility of sick/crazy animals or otherwise out-of-bounds. I further accept that in the current very degraded ecosystems and pollution, other factors may be at play.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

SimonF92

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #106 on: October 16, 2020, 11:03:15 AM »
No problem! I studied a bit of ecology at undergraduate before moving to genetics. Though the two are inherently related, I find animals more interesting than nucleotides.

Infanticide:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3873026?seq=1

Orcas:
(Cant find an article on this but there are anecdotes and videos- dont like posting non-articles)

Chimps:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13727

Corvidae:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272420132_Magpie_interactions_with_other_birds_in_New_Zealand_Results_from_a_literature_review_and_public_survey

(this one is even more disturbing because quote:

"
This study indicates that magpies can attack a wide range of species but fails to determine why (no one explanation satisfies all cases)
"
Bunch of small python Arctic Apps:
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kassy

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #107 on: October 16, 2020, 06:46:35 PM »
Infanticide happens in certain large predator species. Orcas are also recorded to "torture" seals to death and then not eat them. Chimps engage in deadly tribal warfare without eating each other. Even certain corvidae birds will intentionally kill each other over territorial disputes

And cats will bring you all kinds of stuff.

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nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2020, 12:06:16 PM »
Thank you very much SimonF92, I'll read those links. Nice.


kassy, if you mean domesticated cats, those are not living nature. That's exactly the bias I mentioned above.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Sebastian Jones

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2020, 06:16:26 PM »
Thank you very much SimonF92, I'll read those links. Nice.


kassy, if you mean domesticated cats, those are not living nature. That's exactly the bias I mentioned above.

Weasels are notorious for going on killing sprees, even when there is no possibility of getting to eat everything they killed. Wolves are also known to high grade the best bits from Caribou when the killing is easy. Typically, predators do eat what they kill because it is so difficult and dangerous to kill something. However, when circumstances allow, killing to excess is very common.
Lions and bears and several other species regularly commit infanticide, they do so not for food but to eliminate genetic competition or to stimulate oestrus.
In fact there are so many examples of wildlife killing for purposes other than for sustenance, that I was not serious in my initial response.
I did not know you were an expert in the field.
I admit I am not.

Alexander555

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kassy

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #111 on: October 17, 2020, 10:50:19 PM »
That is an interesting project. I would love to see the numbers on carbon costs/savings.

As too the cats...

Well the non domestic cats will probably do that too but not bring it too you because they do not know you.

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nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #112 on: October 18, 2020, 09:02:19 AM »
Sebastian, I am no expert in any academic field. I am no academic although I have a Bsc physics background (without a title, without 'honours' which is my goal, see R.P.Feynman's interviews with whom I deeply agree about almost everything).

The things you state are interesting and some I have read before but never with links. Could you please provide some links?

kassy, indeed. Cats in living nature just catch and eat their prey. There is an enormous difference between domesticated animals and living nature animals. More than people assume. Animals in nature have some kind of culture; an upbringing in living nature by their living nature mother cat; not born in captivity; not fed by humans; not learned to live with this large prey animal and are part of ecosystems. Perhaps I can think of more later :).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

kassy

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2020, 01:43:24 PM »
But the point is that they still play with their food and sometimes don´t eat it.

Some predators bring harmless live prey home so the little ones can practice a bit although that is education. They also eat selectively eating only choice parts of the carcass leaving the other parts for many other animals. You can label that as ecological services but in no way do they have to eat all they kill.

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Sebastian Jones

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2020, 08:34:59 PM »
Sebastian, I am no expert in any academic field. I am no academic although I have a Bsc physics background (without a title, without 'honours' which is my goal, see R.P.Feynman's interviews with whom I deeply agree about almost everything).

The things you state are interesting and some I have read before but never with links. Could you please provide some links?

kassy, indeed. Cats in living nature just catch and eat their prey. There is an enormous difference between domesticated animals and living nature animals. More than people assume. Animals in nature have some kind of culture; an upbringing in living nature by their living nature mother cat; not born in captivity; not fed by humans; not learned to live with this large prey animal and are part of ecosystems. Perhaps I can think of more later :).

Here is a quick link, with references, to infanticide in animals. A good place to start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_(zoology)

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #115 on: October 22, 2020, 09:37:42 AM »
I amended the fundamental rule. Thank you for your posts. They extended my analysis and understanding.

  If you kill a lifeform on purpose, you or your tribe have to eat at least part of it.
  i.e. Killing on purpose is for food only.

N.B.: Infants are not part of living nature yet. They are fed by others.
         Infanticide is part of evlution by natural selection.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

KiwiGriff

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #116 on: October 22, 2020, 10:08:00 AM »
Sorry I don't eat rats, mice,  possums, or magpies.
I kill the many invasive species that infest NZ and will continue to do so  in the name of the ecology of my country. If we don't cull such animals NZ will lose many of the unique  species found here.

New Zealand  has an official policy to eliminate introduced Predator mammalian and marsupial species.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_Free_2050


 Your view of nature is divorced from the hash reality of the real world.
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #117 on: October 23, 2020, 06:51:47 AM »
It is not my "view of nature". It is how living nature operates.
Your idea of what the "real world" is, is incorrect. The 'harsh reality' for living nature is civilisation's total destruction.

The 'world context' is the context of living nature, not the context of humans. Civilisation humans exhibit absolute supremacy, domination and control over all other life...    even over their own females

"in the name of ecology"
yes of course, the ecology of how humans want living nature to be. Killing other lifeforms not for food but to 'correct' errors humans made, having degraded it themselves by bringing the invasive species in the first place. And still new invasive species are brought in. You call that sanity?


A conseqence of forementioned rule and of concern to humans is:

  Omnivore prey animals don't purposely kill a predator that's larger than them

So to e.g. kill a bear for its skin is not living nature behaviour, i.e. not sane.
We should have gone south when it got cold.


I have to be careful to differentiate between humans and civilisation humans. Together they are humanity
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

PragmaticAntithesis

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #118 on: October 24, 2020, 09:51:20 PM »
I just found blumenkraft on reddit. Fun times were had!
A single seed in the right place can sprout an entire forest.

oren

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2020, 02:01:06 AM »
Blumenkraft - wish you were here.

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2020, 08:29:39 AM »
Thanks PragmaticAntithesis :). Very good to read that he's had fun times.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #121 on: November 02, 2020, 09:23:37 AM »
As a follow-up on my previous posts in this context.

Reformulation.

All prey species behave as prey. Prey do not purposely kill 'their' predators.
A predator will not purposely kill another predator except perhaps for territorial disputes or if one is prey to the other.

&

Observation: Birds can have some inter species communication. That is really something totally unexpected and mind boggling.

&

If life form = Plantae

"Killing a life form on purpose and not eat it"-rule doesn't seem to hold for 'it' being plants, e.g. elephants pushing over living trees in Africa.

If someone has anything to add or comment, please do.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Ranman99

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #122 on: November 02, 2020, 11:32:44 AM »
I don't know there is a little bit of cat in a lot of mammals. The thrill of the hunt and the strange excitement of the slow torture. Long drawn out game.

This seems a little blanket to me. Plus whatever is, is the way it now is. Can't go back in time. As Sagan used to say if you want to now make an apple pie from scratch first you have to create this universe ;-) Well he did not say it quite that way. But that's how he meant it. ;-)

So on that note what we have here is what we could call the "development". Getting out of it would be great but seems nigh impossible. One could better postulate how will the mammals all go extinct and in what order.

Most of what I see these days seems to forget that the hundreds of nuke plants are likely to mostly melt down at some point.

Anyway. It's raining here ;-) Can't go out and play! Peace :-*
Randy Fitton

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #123 on: November 02, 2020, 12:29:07 PM »
Interesting Ranman99.

  "Anyway. It's raining here ;-) Can't go out and play!"

Why not? What's wrong with rain? ;)

Could you please explain what you mean by "getting out of 'development'"?


And re: postulate how and in what order the mammals will (all) go extinct. That seems morbid and detached to me. Perhaps I misunderstood.

You could also start with postulating how and in what order all the poor humans will die from the rich countries' Climate Change and callous consumption. Perhaps enjoy yourselves with a nice poll. ;)


All the ice may melt but the hearts of rich people remain frozen.
They'd rather have poor people and non-iconic wildlife die than make deep personal sacrifices to their consumption.
(o no no no it's the governments that need to change first... Ah. Nice. Kicking the can down the road of personal responsibility.)
Am I coming through?... I seem to be having a bad connection. Any advise on that?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2020, 05:11:38 AM »
A consequence of forementioned fundamental rule of living nature, regarding:

           WASPS


IF YOU PURPOSELY KILL A WASP, YOU HAVE TO EAT IT


You may think that you are attacked, but in reality you aren't.

Being inconvenienced and/or irrationally fearful is not the same as being attacked. And your life is not in danger.

A wasp can't kill you and a wasp will never attack you if it's not attacked first.

Bon Appétit :)

P.S. This also goes for mosquitoes etc.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

kassy

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2020, 08:38:50 PM »
Let's see:  1,000 miles (1,600 km) at 20 miles/day (32 km/day) only takes 50 days (50 days) to commute by walking, and walk with the dogs.  And you might meet some neighbors!

I walked the north spanish Camino leg which is 760 km in about 21 days... long ago before EU footpaths ruined it. The train back is one day and quite often intersects the route. It really makles you appreciate the change of pace in history.

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gerontocrat

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #126 on: December 03, 2020, 11:15:24 AM »
A consequence of forementioned fundamental rule of living nature, regarding:

A wasp can't kill you and a wasp will never attack you if it's not attacked first.

Bon Appétit :)

P.S. This also goes for mosquitoes etc.
As regards wasps true most of the time .

Mosquitoes want food and your blood is a favourite meal.

I've had malaria several times and cerebral malaria once. The cerebral malaria was definitely life-threatening. Malaria kills millions very year.

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kassy

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #127 on: December 14, 2020, 12:14:06 AM »
And now for something else. Some hobby math problem.

https://www.wired.com/story/super-slow-computer-programs-reveal-maths-fundamental-limits/

For the whole version but here is the short version.

The general introduction:

Quote
Super Slow Computer Programs Reveal Math's Fundamental Limits

The goal of the “busy beaver” game is to find the longest-running computer program. Its pursuit has surprising connections to profound questions in math.

PROGRAMMERS NORMALLY WANT to minimize the time their code takes to execute. But in 1962, the Hungarian mathematician Tibor Radó posed the opposite problem. He asked: How long can a simple computer program possibly run before it terminates? Radó nicknamed these maximally inefficient but still functional programs “busy beavers.”

...

An Uncomputable Computer Game

The busy beaver game is all about the behavior of Turing machines—the primitive, idealized computers conceived by Alan Turing in 1936. A Turing machine performs actions on an endless strip of tape divided into squares. It does so according to a list of rules. The first rule might say:

If the square contains a 0, replace it with a 1, move one square to the right and consult rule 2. If the square contains a 1, leave the 1, move one square to the left and consult rule 3.

...

As Turing noted in 1936, in order to compute something, a Turing machine must eventually halt—it can’t get trapped in an infinite loop. But he also proved that there’s no reliable, repeatable method for distinguishing machines that halt from machines that simply run forever—a fact known as the halting problem.

The busy beaver game asks: Given a certain number of rules, what’s the maximum number of steps that a Turing machine can take before halting?

For instance, if you’re only allowed one rule, and you want to ensure that the Turing machine halts, you’re forced to include the halt instruction right away. The busy beaver number of a one-rule machine, or BB(1), is therefore 1.

But adding just a few more rules instantly blows up the number of machines to consider. Of 6,561 possible machines with two rules, the one that runs the longest—six steps—before halting is the busy beaver. But some others simply run forever. None of these are the busy beaver, but how do you definitively rule them out? Turing proved that there’s no way to automatically tell whether a machine that runs for a thousand or a million steps won’t eventually terminate.

...

Proving that BB(2) = 6 and that BB(3) = 107 was difficult enough that Radó’s student Shen Lin earned a doctorate for the work in 1965. Radó considered BB(4) “entirely hopeless,” but the case was finally solved in 1983. Beyond that, the values virtually explode; researchers have identified a five-rule Turing machine, for instance, that runs for 47,176,870 steps before stopping, so BB(5) is at least that big. BB(6) is at least 7.4 × 1036,534. Proving the exact values “will need new ideas and new insights, if it can be done at all,” said Aaronson.

I hope that the general concept is a bit clear.

Then they get at one of those applications which are a great time waster at least for me. The Goldbach conjecture. It´s true but how to prove it.

So here is the slow program approach:

Quote
The Goldbach conjecture, for instance, asks whether every even integer greater than 2 is the sum of two primes. Proving the conjecture true or false would be an epochal event in number theory, allowing mathematicians to better understand the distribution of prime numbers. In 2015, an anonymous GitHub user named Code Golf Addict published code for a 27-rule Turing machine that halts if—and only if—the Goldbach conjecture is false. It works by counting upward through all even integers greater than 4; for each one, it grinds through all the possible ways to get that integer by adding two others, checking whether the pair is prime. When it finds a suitable pair of primes, it moves up to the next even integer and repeats the process. If it finds an even integer that can’t be summed by a pair of prime numbers, it halts.

Running this mindless machine isn’t a practical way to solve the conjecture, because we can’t know if it will ever halt until it does. But the busy beaver game sheds some light on the problem. If it were possible to compute BB(27), that would provide a ceiling on how long we’d have to wait for the Goldbach conjecture to be settled automatically. That’s because BB(27) corresponds to the maximum number of steps this 27-rule Turing machine would have to execute in order to halt (if it ever did). If we knew that number, we could run the Turing machine for exactly that many steps. If it halted by that point, we’d know the Goldbach conjecture was false. But if it went that many steps and didn’t halt, we’d know for certain that it never would—thus proving the conjecture true.

So this is a funny program. It should never halt just really , really slow down with the bigger numbers.

This is triggers some other questions. Can you write a 27 that terminates. Possibly, but not this one.

What i really like about this design is that this is really just the brute force counting up.
Not sure how you condense that to only 27 steps but i will look at that later.

Every even integer greater than 2 is the sum of two primes.


This is a result of using sieves. The statement can be translated to lets look at all natural numbers and then we divide relation between the boring stuff which is the multiples of two and the primes which are the numbers escaping the sieve if you build it up.

If you make an infinite page with all numbers going 10 per row and then strike out all the even numbers you have columns.

Then you snap your fingers and every number divisible by 3 gets struck out. Now you have 16,66% less holes. Multiples of 5 you only have to do if they are multiples odd numbers because all others lie on the 10 line. And then it gets messy.

Next up 7. You do not have to check for multiples of 2,3 or 5.

11 add 7 to that list.

The even numbers and primes all grow with a 2 factor. Evens go up by 2 all the time but the uneven ones don´t.
3 5 7 works
but 9 falls to 3
11 13
15 falls to 3
17 19
21 to 3
23
25 falls to 5
27 to 3
29 31 ok
33 falls to 3 etc.

The odd numbers as a broad class grow with +2 too. Primes are just a special subclass of that so they always do that too. They are just the subclass that grow that way and that are not divisible by smaller primes.

So the program should keep running.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Alexander555

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2020, 09:54:19 PM »
There is something new on Ventusky. The airpollution, the pic is about the 2.5 particules. The ones you see in Africa, is the sand the origine of it ?

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2020, 04:09:48 PM »
Alexander,
Yes, it is "Saharan dust" or SAL (Saharan Air Layer) floating over the central Atlantic.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Alexander555

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2020, 06:00:14 PM »
Would they all have a different origine ? Like the ones in North India, that's probably not sand. There is plenty of rain at the feets of the Himalaya. Maybe traffic or industry.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2020, 07:09:10 PM »
India (especially northern India) and many parts of China suffer from intense air pollution (including "2.5 particles") due to burning coal (and maybe oil).  I've been in both countries:  it is not nice.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

kassy

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #132 on: December 23, 2020, 08:46:17 PM »
Gerontocrat, there are ways to take over the world other than by military domination. You can also take over the world with science, culture, or religion. The latest expansion includes a victory by diplomacy but I haven't tried that.

I am pretty sure that was always included but i dropped out after III.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #133 on: December 24, 2020, 04:27:57 PM »
Have a good Christmas time everybody! (apart from the trolls/disturbers) :)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Bruce Steele

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #134 on: December 24, 2020, 05:25:15 PM »
Nanning, It is good to hear from you . I miss contributions from proponents of “small is beautiful “.
If you haven’t looked at zeroinputagriculture give it a look. I wish we could actually compare the carbon footprint of minimalists like you or Shane at zeroinput with the techno utopia proponents . The techno crowd seems to push their toys not their carbon footprint.
If you have examples of other minimalists publishing their results please link their sites.
Merry Christmas

oren

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #135 on: December 24, 2020, 07:05:12 PM »
Happy Christmas / Yuletide / Midwinter fest  to all.

vox_mundi

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #136 on: December 24, 2020, 07:21:17 PM »
Hello nanning

Good will to all, and a Better New Year!  :)

It's winter, there's 6 inches of snow on the ground and it's 55°F. I'm above ground. Can't complain.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

gerontocrat

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #137 on: December 24, 2020, 07:55:53 PM »
Bah! Humbug! Ooh, it felt good writing that.

Whatever turns you on, do it baby, at least until we have to go back to the grindstone.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

vox_mundi

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #138 on: December 24, 2020, 08:20:38 PM »
Is that Marley rattling his chains. No Marmite for you this year!

And don't burn the house down with the Christmas pudding.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

wili

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #139 on: December 25, 2020, 05:59:53 AM »
All the best to you, too, nanning! And everyone else, too
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Freegrass

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #140 on: December 26, 2020, 01:26:22 AM »
Have a good Christmas time everybody! (apart from the trolls/disturbers) :)
So I guess you don't have a clue about the true meaning of Christmas...
And so we pray...

When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again...

nanning

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #141 on: December 28, 2020, 06:23:07 AM »
I register all kinds of data. It's a daily routine.

About my personal consumption.
Meat and dairy totals for 2020:
Milk (L)10.000
Cow (Kg)8.548
Pig (Kg)9.271
Chicken (Kg)0.000
Cheese (Kg)18.062

All meat and dairy come from organic farms from animals that are treated and fed according to organic rules.

No soya; no pesticides; no anti-biotics; no growth hormones; no gen-tech; more outside and self-feeding/foraging; biodiverse; a little bit more expensive but even I can afford it. It is no more than a matter of priority and my conscience sets the priorities within my limits of expenditure. Organic meat too expensive or not for sale?-> no meat consumption for me.

Today I'm going to cook a cow's tongue from Herefort cattle at a nature reserve (https://www.oerdewiel.nl).

--
P.S. Thank you Bruce for your nice words. The techno crowd externalizes parts of the complete carbon footprint of their technology imo. Toys indeed.


Edit: added "parts of" in last sentence as correction
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 05:56:44 PM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Freegrass

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #142 on: January 15, 2021, 06:18:04 AM »
Is God a superhero? He's almighty, and fictional...
And so we pray...

When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again...

oren

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #143 on: January 15, 2021, 06:25:47 AM »
Best not begin theological discussions.

be cause

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #144 on: January 15, 2021, 11:50:51 AM »
God is certainly a Superhero .. One that acts in the Quantum arena .. b.c.

 p.s. .. I'd choose theology over politics most days ..
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2021, 05:55:15 PM »
With no particular 'you' in mind: my hell is warmer than your hell, if Dante had his facts straight.
 :-\ :'( :o
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

karl dubhe2

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #146 on: January 17, 2021, 01:36:09 AM »
Best not begin theological discussions.

I suppose it would also be bad to start talking about fan-fiction.   Would not want people to compare them.    :-X

kassy

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #147 on: January 23, 2021, 10:20:19 PM »
So in the Netherlands we now have a nightly lockdown from 21.00 to 4.30. This is mainly to stop people from visiting.

One of the effects it has is to bring down traffic by quite a bit. It is actually eerily quiet. You can hear the single cars.

It is interesting how this pandemic highlights these things. Normally it is a rather persistent drone.
I also loved the look of the air in the spring. All blue, no planes and only birds flying up above.

So all we need now is flying cars and invisible planes, or something more practical.  :)
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

zenith

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #148 on: January 24, 2021, 01:15:40 AM »
dante's ninth circle of hell - treachery. the reptilian hindbrain traps itself between two worlds by it's own actions. 9 neters, 9 muses, 9 realms of midgard, 9 candles on the hanukkah menorah. there are nine basic parts to the human brain. 33 vertebrae, two hemispheres and a unity, the pineal gland - the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the yggdrasil tree of norse mythology.

it's always amusing when ignorant people comment about those things which they have no understanding.
god is a concept - one. the human intellect is attempting to transcend duality through science and technology and become one. since gobekli tepe...
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster

zenith

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Re: The off topic off topic thread
« Reply #149 on: January 24, 2021, 01:39:12 AM »
Do you want your "spirituality" with ego, or without ego?
Old testament, or new testament?
Conquer the world, or conquer yourself?
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster