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How many will die of Covid19 in the 2020s directly and indirectly

Less than 10,000
10 (14.7%)
10,000-100,000
9 (13.2%)
100,000-1,000,000
9 (13.2%)
One to ten million
13 (19.1%)
Ten to a hundred million
14 (20.6%)
Hundred million to one billion
9 (13.2%)
Over a billion
4 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: March 03, 2020, 12:39:52 AM

Author Topic: COVID-19  (Read 1930046 times)

wili

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2050 on: March 06, 2020, 05:54:14 PM »
Nice!

Or maybe:

"Oooh, my little Wuhan one,
viral one,
comin' to congest my lungs,

AY CORONA!..."

"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

blumenkraft

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2051 on: March 06, 2020, 06:01:45 PM »
"don't eat feces"

Well, this one seems correct, but not especially in the context of COVID-19. It's not there!  :-X

be cause

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2052 on: March 06, 2020, 06:35:34 PM »
as concerning as passing the 100,000 victims is passing 20,000 outside China . It appears there will be more cases outside China than inside within a week . It is possible that the majority of sick will be outside China by the end of tomorrow .
  Meanwhile Irish hospitals seem to take no precautions until after staff are exposed . 60 medical staff self quarantining at Cork uni. hospital and operations and routine procedures cancelled in 6 hospitals in the Kilkenny area . As I am attending hospital in 8 days I would like to see staff endeavouring to protect themsel ves and patients .. b.c.
We live in a Quantum universe . Do you live like you do ?

Alexander555

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2053 on: March 06, 2020, 07:13:20 PM »
Looks like they have a problem over here, there is a shortage of products to do the tests. And they say many countries are in the same situation. Normaly they have a supply for 6 months, that is now used in 6 days. And it's not possible to order more. So they only do the severe cases. If you come from Italy and you just have a running nose, no test. That sounds bad.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2054 on: March 06, 2020, 07:24:57 PM »
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

KiwiGriff

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2055 on: March 06, 2020, 07:30:06 PM »
you just have a running nose, no test.

Maybe because it is a respiratory infection  a runny nose is not a symptom.
https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus
Common signs of infection include respiratory symptoms, fever, cough, shortness of breath and breathing difficulties. In more severe cases, infection can cause pneumonia, severe acute respiratory syndrome, kidney failure and even death.
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

Alexander555

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2056 on: March 06, 2020, 07:38:40 PM »
That's the worth they used in the news, a running nose (drupneus). About what product would they be talking ?

wili

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2057 on: March 06, 2020, 07:40:13 PM »
Quote
Common signs of infection include respiratory symptoms, fever, cough, shortness of breath and breathing difficulties. In more severe cases, infection can cause pneumonia...

But aren't fever, cough, shortness of breath and difficulty breathing themselves signs of pneumonia?

https://www.lung.org/lung-health-and-diseases/lung-disease-lookup/pneumonia/symptoms-and-diagnosis.html
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

gerontocrat

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2058 on: March 06, 2020, 10:56:20 PM »
Quote
Common signs of infection include respiratory symptoms, fever, cough, shortness of breath and breathing difficulties. In more severe cases, infection can cause pneumonia...

But aren't fever, cough, shortness of breath and difficulty breathing themselves signs of pneumonia?

https://www.lung.org/lung-health-and-diseases/lung-disease-lookup/pneumonia/symptoms-and-diagnosis.html
I thought covid-19 did the immune system a mischief which then made one vulnerable to any illness becoming much more severe. E.g.. a cough becomes pneumonia. Hence very high mortality rates for those with pre-existing conditions (and crumblies like me with clapped out immune systems).

A bit like HIV/ aids which in the early days before the new drugs were developed basically killed the immune system, leaving the body wide open to rampant infection. (Back in the 80's had a brother who worked on the Aids Help-line for many years. )

"I wasn't expecting that quite so soon" kiwichick16
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"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2059 on: March 06, 2020, 11:48:20 PM »
'Wildly Unprepared’: Survey of US Nurses Highlights Coronavirus Concerns
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/06/us-coronavirus-outbreak-nurses-cdc

Supply and staffing shortages, combined with conflicting guidance and lack of information, have created a perfect-storm situation that’s poised to perpetuate illness, nurses told the Guardian.

National Nurses United (NNU) released results from a survey of more than 6,500 nurses across 48 states, Washington DC, and the Virgin Islands. Less than half of nurses surveyed – 44% – said their employers provided them information on novel coronavirus and “how to recognize and respond to possible cases”.

Just 63% of nurses surveyed had access to N95 respirators in their units, while a mere 27% had access to powered air purifying respirators.

Only 30% of survey participants said that their employers had enough personal protective equipment (PPE) stocked in the event of a quick uptick in potential coronavirus patients, while 38% didn’t know.

During an NNU news conference Thursday, organization officials read one northern California nurse’s shocking description of her own healthcare ordeal stemming from Covid-19.

https://mobile.twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1235704384719327232



Hospital administrators recently restricted practitioners’ access to N95 masks, claiming it was “because of the national shortage”, this nurse said. Now, healthcare workers there have to seek a manager’s permission to obtain one of these respirators – even if someone walks into the ER who presents coronavirus concerns.

... Several patients with respiratory symptoms who tested negative for common respiratory ailments – a red flag indicating that testing for coronavirus might be necessary – never got tested. One was released from the hospital, while several more wound up being treated for general respiratory symptoms, she said.

When this nurse voiced concerns to management, she claims to have been warned: “stop freaking out and stop scaring everybody”. (... just like in China)

Hospitals would need to dedicate one nurse and one aide to a coronavirus patient, Pratt said. “With that, you’ve really taken a couple of staff people out of the mix. Who’s making up for that?”

“It makes it much more difficult if your system is already overwhelmed,” he continued.

------------------------

Meanwhile, the Mad king speaks ...

Trump's devaluing of science is a danger to US coronavirus response, experts warn
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/06/coronavirus-trump-administration-brain-drain-impeding-response

... “The US is badly positioned; the federal government isn’t up to the task,” said Judith Enck, a former regional administrator for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). “When I learned more about this virus my heart sank because I know the Trump administration doesn’t value basic science, it doesn’t understand it and it tends to reject it when it conflicts with its political narrative.”

Enck said that Trump “doesn’t seem to understand what a clinical trial is”, a reference to a White House meeting with pharmaceutical executives and public health officials on Monday where the president urged the attendees to release the anti-coronavirus drugs they are working on. “So you have a medicine that’s already involved with the coronaviruses, and now you have to see if it’s specifically for this,” Trump said. “You can know that tomorrow, can’t you?”

In the meeting, Trump wondered aloud why the flu vaccine can’t just be used for coronavirus. When told by Anthony Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, that it could be up to 18 months before a vaccine is available to the public, Trump responded:

Quote
... “I mean, I like the sound of a couple months better, if I must be honest.”

At a political rally in Charlotte later that day, Trump told the crowd that a vaccine will be available “relatively soon” before adding that there are “fringe globalists that would rather keep our borders open than keep out infection – think of it – keep all of the infection, let it come in.”

... “The scientific ‘truth’ about the virus may not match what the administration wants to hear, so the scientific ‘truth’ is at risk of being compromised before it is made public,” said Wendy Wagner, a University of Texas expert in how policy-makers use science.

... “He is more concerned about the safety of his fragile ego than he is about the safety of Americans.”

The best thing the president could do right now is to stop talking.”


--------------------------

Trump Muddles Coronavirus Message as Response Team Struggles to Match 'Wishful Thinking'
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/06/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-messaging-confusion/index.html


---------------------------

'False hope' coronavirus will disappear in the summer like the flu, WHO says
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/06/coronavirus-latest-updates-outbreak.html

It's a "false hope" that coronavirus will be seasonal and subside in the summer, like the flu, the World Health Organization said Friday. "We have to assume that the virus will continue to have the capacity to spread," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of WHO's health emergencies program, said at the agency's headquarters in Geneva.

"It's a false hope to say, yes, that it will disappear like the flu." Earlier in the outbreak, U.S. health officials said there was a hypothesis among mathematical modelers that the outbreak "could potentially be seasonal" and relent in warmer conditions.

---------------------------

President Donald Trump on Friday called Washington Gov. Jay Inslee "a snake" for criticizing his administration's response to the coronavirus outbreak.
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/06/donald-trump-jay-inslee-coronavirus-123114

Speaking in Atlanta at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Trump went off on Inslee for saying that he wanted Trump to stick to the science when discussing the outbreak. Trump has repeatedly tried to downplay the gravity of the outbreak and floated his own hunches on matters of science.

"I told Mike not to be complimentary of that governor because that governor is a snake," Trump said, referring to Vice President Mike Pence. "So Mike may be happy with him but I'm not, OK?"

Trump has repeatedly complained that he isn't getting enough credit for attempting to prevent the outbreak.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 01:44:48 AM by vox_mundi »
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

Richard Rathbone

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2060 on: March 07, 2020, 12:33:18 AM »
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports/

From today's sitrep (46) a comparison between COVID and flu

Quote
SUBJECT IN FOCUS: Q&A: Similarities and differences – COVID-19 and influenza

Q. How are COVID-19 and influenza viruses similar?
Firstly, COVID-19 and influenza viruses have a similar disease presentation. That is, they both cause respiratory disease, which presents as a wide range of illness from asymptomatic or mild through to severe disease and death.

Secondly, both viruses are transmitted by contact, droplets and fomites. As a result, the same public health measures, such as hand hygiene and good respiratory etiquette (coughing into your elbow or into a tissue and immediately disposing of the tissue), are important actions all can take to prevent infection.

Q. How are COVID-19 and influenza viruses different?
The speed of transmission is an important point of difference between the two viruses. Influenza has a shorter median incubation period (the time from infection to appearance of symptoms) and a shorter serial interval (the time between successive cases) than COVID-19 virus. The serial interval for COVID-19 virus is estimated to be 5-6 days, while for influenza virus, the serial interval is 3 days. This means that influenza can spread faster than COVID19.

Further, transmission in the first 3-5 days of illness, or potentially pre-symptomatic transmission –transmission of the virus before the appearance of symptoms – is a major driver of transmission for influenza. In contrast, while we are learning that there are people who can shed COVID-19 virus 24-48 hours prior to symptom onset, at present, this does not appear to be a major driver of transmission.

The reproductive number – the number of secondary infections generated from one infected individual – is understood to be between 2 and 2.5 for COVID-19 virus, higher than for influenza. However, estimates for both COVID-19 and influenza viruses are very context and time-specific, making direct comparisons more difficult.

Children are important drivers of influenza virus transmission in the community. For COVID-19 virus, initial data indicates that children are less affected than adults and that clinical attack rates in the 0-19 age group are low. Further preliminary data from household transmission studies in China suggest that children are infected from adults, rather than vice versa.

While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different. For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.

Those most at risk for severe influenza infection are children, pregnant women, elderly, those with underlying chronic medical conditions and those who are immunosuppressed. For COVID-19, our current understanding is that older age and underlying conditions increase the risk for severe infection.

Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care.

Q. What medical interventions are available for COVID-19 and influenza viruses?
While there are a number of therapeutics currently in clinical trials in China and more than 20 vaccines in development for COVID-19, there are currently no licensed vaccines or therapeutics for COVID-19. In contrast, antivirals and vaccines available for influenza.

Stephen

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2061 on: March 07, 2020, 01:43:32 AM »
Quote
,
Yes. Facebook has a profile for you even if you don't have an account with Facebook. They track you throughout the whole internet once such a tracker is set.


Try this
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-container/
The ice was here, the ice was there,   
The ice was all around:
It crack'd and growl'd, and roar'd and howl'd,   
Like noises in a swound!
  Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Samuel Taylor Coleridge

blumenkraft

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2062 on: March 07, 2020, 01:54:48 AM »
Quote
,
Yes. Facebook has a profile for you even if you don't have an account with Facebook. They track you throughout the whole internet once such a tracker is set.


Try this
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/facebook-container/

This is a good plugin, Steven. But Bruce is using an iPad.

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2063 on: March 07, 2020, 02:03:52 AM »
2 miles away - took a family member there today ...

------------------------

First Case of Coronavirus in Connecticut, Reported in Danbury
https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/first-case-of-coronavirus-reported-in-danbury/2234292/?amp

The first case of novel coronavirus COVID-19 has been reported in Connecticut.

The person infected is an employee from Danbury Hospital and Norwalk Hospital and a New York resident.

The patient lives in Westchester County and is currently there under self-quarantine, according to the governor.

... Sen. Richard Blumenthal said in a statement. "The CDC should immediately provide Connecticut with tests already promised now more necessary than ever."

At least 200 people in Connecticut have been advised to self-monitor for signs of coronavirus, a spokesperson for the governor told NBC Connecticut on Thursday.

Max Reiss, a spokesperson for Gov. Ned Lamont, confirmed Thursday that the 200 people were either showing potential symptoms or were under a travel advisory from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Those cases date back to the start of February.

---------------------------

VP: US Does Not Have Coronavirus Tests to Meet Anticipated Demand
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/backs-83bn-funds-china-death-toll-tops-3000-live-updates-200305000715579.html

The US does not yet have enough coronavirus tests to meet anticipated demand, Vice President Mike Pence has said, adding that the Coast Guard has delivered tests to a cruise ship off the coast of California.

"We don't have enough tests today to meet what we anticipate the demand going forward," Pence said during a visit to Minnesota.

"As more Americans take an interest in this or have concerns about this, we want to make sure they have access to the coronavirus test as well and we've made real progress on that in the last several days."

------------------------------------
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2064 on: March 07, 2020, 02:44:49 AM »
Report: US Joint Chiefs of Staff Creates 24/7 'Crisis Management Team'
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/backs-83bn-funds-china-death-toll-tops-3000-live-updates-200305000715579.html

The Joint Chiefs of Staff, a body of military leaders that advises the White House, Department of Defense and Department of Homeland Security, has set up a 24-hour team to track the global spread of coronavirus, according to a report by CNN.

------------------------------

Defense Department Expects Coronavirus Will 'Likely' Become Global Pandemic In 30 Days
https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-department-defense-pandemic-30-days-1489876

As President Donald Trump assured the public his administration was properly handling the new coronavirus, a document from the Department of Defense showed that officials are preparing for the possibility that COVID-19 may have a significant global impact.

The warning came as part of Thursday's Joint Chief of Staff daily intelligence brief and, according to a document obtained by Newsweek, officials expect COVID-19 will "likely" become a global pandemic within the next 30 days

Officials have expected global cases would spread. On Tuesday, the National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI) raised the Risk of Pandemic warning. It went from WATCHCON 2, a probable crisis, to WATCHCON 1, an imminent crisis, due to sustained human-to-human transmission outside of China, according to a report summary obtained by Newsweek.

"The DoD is concerned not only the impact COVID-19 has on mission readiness, but the risk to inadvertently spread the virus to the U.S. by returning members who may have been exposed," a senior Pentagon official told Newsweek.

When asked for comment, Jessica R. Maxwell, a DOD spokesperson, said the DoD has "contingency plans in place and are taking steps to educate and safeguard our military and civilian personnel, family members and base communities in preventing widespread outbreak." But ultimately, "Commanders of individually affected geographic commands will be and are issuing specific guidance to their forces as their situations may require."

------------------------------

The Department of Defense is Bracing for a Potential Coronavirus Outbreak at the Pentagon
https://www.businessinsider.com/defense-department-planning-to-defend-pentagon-from-coronavirus-outbreak-2020-3

The Secretary of Defense Mark Esper stressed that the Pentagon is a hardened structure capable of withstanding situations like this.

"We have a lot of capabilities in this building," he said.

"Our national military command center has the capability go for weeks at a time if they have to be locked down inside the building if we have some type of outbreak," Esper explained.

"We're fully confident that we can continue to perform the functions that the Pentagon needs to perform if we have some type of outbreak in the building."

While this is not an issue yet, he said, "we want to be prepared for everything, and we're taking a variety of measures."

------------------------------

NATO military HQ confirms first coronavirus cases

NATO said Thursday it had confirmed three cases of coronavirus linked to its military headquarters in Belgium - a civilian employee and two family members.

The employee had recently travelled to Italy. NATO said the employee and family members had not visited its Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE) facility in Mons, southern Belgium, since returning from Italy.

"There are three confirmed COVID-19 cases within our wider SHAPE community," NATO said in a statement. "The cases were 'imported' to Belgium following foreign travel and the affected individuals have not entered the SHAPE site since returning home."

-----------------------------

- Global cases: At least 101,927, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

- Global deaths: At least 3,488, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

- US cases: At least 331, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

- US deaths: At least 14, according to the CDC and state health officials.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 02:55:57 AM by vox_mundi »
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

Rodius

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2065 on: March 07, 2020, 03:35:07 AM »
Let the insanity begin........ sadly, this isnt even the first instance of fights breaking out over toilet paper..... yes..... toilet paper

https://au.news.yahoo.com/fight-breaks-out-in-woolworths-over-toilet-paper-005028701.html

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2066 on: March 07, 2020, 03:38:36 AM »
South Korea reports 483 new cases, bringing total to 6,767 cases
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-live-updates-sxsw-canceled-grand-princess-cruise-ship-has-21-cases.html

South Korea reported 483 new cases as of March 6, bringing its total to 6,767 cases. There were two more deaths, bringing the total number of deaths to 44.

-------------------------------

China reports 99 new cases, 28 more deaths
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-live-updates-sxsw-canceled-grand-princess-cruise-ship-has-21-cases.html

China’s National Health Commission reported 99 new confirmed cases as of March 6, and 28 new deaths. Of the new cases, 74 were from the epicenter of Hubei, and all 28 of the deaths were from that province. That brings the country’s total to 80,651 confirmed cases, and 3,070 deaths.

----------------------------

Grand Princess cruise ship has 21 cases
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-live-updates-sxsw-canceled-grand-princess-cruise-ship-has-21-cases.html

Vice President Mike Pence on Friday said 21 people on the Grand Princess cruise ship off the coast of California have tested positive for coronavirus.

The ship will be brought to a non-commercial port, Pence said, and everyone aboard the ship will be tested. He did not say which port the ship will go toward or when it is expected to arrive.

Of the 21 people who tested positive, he added, 19 are crew members and two are passengers. Pence said health officials tested only 46 people aboard the ship.

----------------------------

New York state coronavirus cases quadruple to 44, thousands under ‘precautionary quarantine’
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-live-updates-sxsw-canceled-grand-princess-cruise-ship-has-21-cases.html

The state reported 11 cases Wednesday evening, 22 on Thursday, 33 Friday afternoon  and 44 Friday evening — a fourfold increase over the previous 48 hours. There are roughly 2,700 people in New York City under ‘precautionary quarantine’ with more than 1,000 others also in voluntary isolation across the state, Cuomo said.

--------------------------

Trump offers misleading remarks and insults at CDC press conference
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/06/us-coronavirus-death-toll-washington-state

Speaking at the Centers for Disease Control’s (CDC) main campus in Atlanta, Georgia, while wearing his red “Keep America Great” re-election campaign hat, the president went on a rant criticizing Washington state’s governor, Jay Inslee, as a “snake” and saying he disagreed with his vice-president’s complimentary remarks toward the Democrat. Inslee, who ran for president last year, is overseeing the response to the most serious outbreak in the US.

In a moment that some commentators have called one of the most “disturbing” and “frightening” remarks of Trump’s response to the public health crisis, the president also said he would prefer that cruise ship passengers exposed to the virus be left aboard so that they don’t add to the number of total infections in the US.

Quote
... “I like the numbers being where they are,” said Trump, who appeared to be explicitly acknowledging his political concerns about the outbreak: “I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.”

The president further implied that the coronavirus test was available to anyone who needed it, even though his own administration has acknowledged that there is currently a shortage among US health care providers. He called the test “perfect”.

--------------------------

U.S. tests fewer than 2,000 for virus, Atlantic reports (12:03 p.m. NY)

Despite a surge in production of kits to test for the new coronavirus, only 1,895 people have been tested in the U.S, The Atlantic reported. About 10% of those tested positive.

States are handling reporting how many tests are being administered and the CDC has stopped publishing the data, complicating efforts to collect complete figures, the magazine says. The information was collected from government websites and interviews. Public health officials can currently administer only thousands of tests a day nationwide, instead of the tens or hundreds of thousands promised by the White House, The Atlantic said.

“The net effect of these choices is that the country’s true capacity for testing has not been made clear to its residents. This level of obfuscation is unexpected in the United States, which has long been a global leader in public-health transparency,” the magazine wrote

---------------------------
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2067 on: March 07, 2020, 03:41:19 AM »
Oh the Humanity! Australian Loo Roll Truck Goes Up in Flames
https://www.abc.net.au/article/12027262

A truck transporting toilet paper in Australia has caught fire. Video at link.

It comes as Australians have been stockpiling toilet paper amid coronavirus fears.

... Also, a fight over scarce toilet paper in Australia ended with a man being tasered in a store in Tamworth in New South Wales, local police said on Thursday.
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

Sam

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2068 on: March 07, 2020, 04:09:13 AM »
    The US CDC is now recommending that those over 60 or with serious health conditions stay home.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/high-risk-complications.html

Quote
People at Higher Risk for COVID-19 Complications
What to do if you are at higher risk:
  • Stay at home as much as possible.
  • Make sure you have access to several weeks of medications and supplies in case you need to stay home for prolonged periods of time.
  • When you go out in public, keep away from others who are sick, limit close contact and wash your hands often.
  • Avoid crowds.
Stay up to date on CDC Travel Health Notices.
On This Page

Who is at Higher Risk
Get Ready for COVID-19 Now
What to Do if You Get Sick
What Others can do to Support Older Adults
Who is at Higher Risk

Older adults and people who have severe chronic medical conditions like heart, lung or kidney disease seem to be at higher risk for more serious COVID-19 illness. Early data suggest older people are twice as likely to have serious COVID-19 illness. This may be because:
  • As people age, their immune systems change, making it harder for their body to fight off diseases and infection.
  • Many older adults are also more likely to have underlying health conditions that make it harder to cope with and recover from illness.
  • If a COVID-19 outbreak happens in your community, it could last for a long time. Depending on the severity of the outbreak, public health officials may recommend community actions to reduce exposures to COVID-19. These actions can slow the spread and reduce the impact of disease.
  • If you are at increased risk for COVID-19 complications due to age or because you have a severe underlying medical condition, it is especially important for you to take actions to reduce your risk of exposure.

Get Ready for COVID-19 Now
  • Consult with your health care provider for more information about monitoring your health for symptoms suggestive of COVID-19.

Have supplies on hand
  • Contact your healthcare provider to ask about obtaining extra necessary medications to have on hand in case there is an outbreak of COVID-19 in your community and you need to stay home for a prolonged period of time.
  • If you cannot get extra medications, consider using mail-order for medications.
  • Be sure you have over-the-counter medicines and medical supplies (tissues, etc.) to treat fever and other symptoms. Most people will be able to recover from COVID-19 at home.
  • Have enough household items and groceries on hand so that you will be prepared to stay at home for a period of time.
  • Avoid close contact with people who are sick
If COVID-19 is spreading in your community, take extra measures to put distance between yourself and other people
  • Stay home as much as possible.
  • Consider ways of getting food brought to your house through family, social, or commercial networks
  • Avoid crowds, especially in poorly ventilated spaces
  • Make a plan for what to do if you get sick
  • Stay in touch with others by phone or email. You may need to ask for help from friends, family, neighbors, community health workers, etc. if you become sick.
  • Determine who can provide you with care if your caregiver gets sick.
  • Take everyday preventive actions
  • Clean your hands often
  • Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing, or having been in a public place.
  • If soap and water are not available, use a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol.
  • To the extent possible, avoid touching high-touch surfaces in public places – elevator buttons, door handles, handrails, handshaking with people, etc. Use a tissue or your sleeve to cover your hand or finger if you must touch something.
  • Wash your hands after touching surfaces in public places.
  • Avoid touching your face, nose, eyes, etc.
  • Clean and disinfect your home to remove germs: practice routine cleaning of frequently touched surfaces (for example: tables, doorknobs, light switches, handles, desks, toilets, faucets, sinks & cell phones)
  • Watch for symptoms and emergency warning signs
  • Pay attention for potential COVID-19 symptoms including, fever, cough, and shortness of breath. If you feel like you are developing symptoms, call your doctor.
If you develop emergency warning signs for COVID-19 get medical attention immediately. In adults, emergency warning signs*:
  • Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
  • Persistent pain or pressure in the chest
  • New confusion or inability to arouse
  • Bluish lips or face
*This list is not all inclusive. Please consult your medical provider for any other symptom that is severe or concerning.

What to Do if You Get Sick
  • Stay home and call your doctor
  • Call your healthcare provider and let them know about your symptoms. Tell them that you have or may have COVID-19. This will help them take care of you and keep other people from getting infected or exposed.
  • If you are not sick enough to be hospitalized, you can recover at home. Follow CDC instructions for how to take care of yourself at home.
  • Know when to get emergency help
  • Get medical attention immediately if you have any of the emergency warning signs listed above.

Sam

edmountain

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2069 on: March 07, 2020, 04:20:30 AM »
'Wildly Unprepared’: Survey of US Nurses Highlights Coronavirus Concerns
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/06/us-coronavirus-outbreak-nurses-cdc

...

Just 63% of nurses surveyed had access to N95 respirators in their units, while a mere 27% had access to powered air purifying respirators.

...
The clamor over N95 masks is a good example of the problems that arise when decisions are made based on fear rather than on evidence. In my health region we are faced with a growing concern regarding the supply of N95 masks--a looming shortage that would possibly be completely avoidable if their use elsewhere were reserved only for when they are really needed rather than universally.

Elsewhere in Canada, the Ontario Ministry of Health was recently taken to task by ID doctors over similar concerns.
Quote
Ontario’s coronavirus policy for health workers not supported by evidence, experts warn

Ontario’s policy for protecting health-care workers against COVID-19 wastes precious resources and leaves hospitals unable to safely cope with an expected rise in coronavirus patients in the coming days, infectious disease experts warn.

...

But numerous infectious disease experts say mounting evidence shows COVID-19 spreads through droplets, such as when an infected person sneezes and coughs, and that airborne precautions are not appropriate nor are they supported by evidence. Instead, they say health professionals should use “droplet precautions,” which refer to gowns, eye guards, gloves and regular surgical masks.

...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontarios-coronavirus-policy-for-health-workers-not-supported-by/

In other news, my region is about to start testing all patients presenting with ILI symptoms for SARS-CoV-2; no longer will a travel history or epidemiological link be required. I expect a big increase in cases soon (source: inside information).

edmountain

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2070 on: March 07, 2020, 04:29:27 AM »
The US CDC is now recommending that those over 60 or with serious health conditions stay home.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/high-risk-complications.html

...
Let's hope people follow their advice! Although their actual advice was "stay at home as much as possible" so rather open-ended. And they didn't actually specify the age of 60, just "older adults". Most people would probably just interpret that as "anyone older than me".

Sebastian Jones

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2071 on: March 07, 2020, 07:34:58 AM »
The US CDC is now recommending that those over 60 or with serious health conditions stay home.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/high-risk-complications.html

...
Let's hope people follow their advice! Although their actual advice was "stay at home as much as possible" so rather open-ended. And they didn't actually specify the age of 60, just "older adults". Most people would probably just interpret that as "anyone older than me".

America will be a very different country when all the over 60s stay home...and avoid crowds.
Also thinking about the Germophobe-in-Chief.

pileus

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2072 on: March 07, 2020, 09:11:01 AM »
This is the beginning of what I fear will be a significant toll across the 70+ population in Florida

2 Dead in Florida; 2 Test ‘Presumptive Positive’ for COVID-19 in Broward County

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/2-dead-in-florida-2-test-presumptive-positive-for-covid-19-in-broward-county/2201904/?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_MIBrand&amp&__twitter_impression=true

I have done what I can to warn and urge preparations amongst my friends and older family here in the state.  Sadly, some of them consume Fox as their primary news source and are not taking this seriously.

etienne

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2073 on: March 07, 2020, 09:52:01 AM »
America will be a very different country when all the over 60s stay home...and avoid crowds.
Also thinking about the Germophobe-in-Chief.
I believe that the whole world will be different during and after the Covid. I don't have a clue of what might happen. Covid could have a greater impact than 9/11, socially, culturally and economically. But maybe BAU will restart after it.

Rodius

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2074 on: March 07, 2020, 10:36:49 AM »
Australia is about to have a surge in Melbourne. (My hometown)

Headline
'Flabbergasted': Doctor saw 70 patients at Toorak clinic while infected with coronavirus

https://www.theage.com.au/national/flabbergasted-doctor-saw-70-patients-at-toorak-clinic-while-infected-with-coronavirus-20200307-p547su.html

A-Team

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2075 on: March 07, 2020, 10:55:04 AM »
Continuing on from #1993 and #2020, covid-19 viral activation and invasion of lung pneumatocytes has unusual and undesirable features that reflect rapid recent evolution of its genome.

The research action centers on the spike protein because it seems to have acquired aggressive new properties from a specific upstream 12-base insertion (creating a 4 amino acid furin-like cleavage site motif) that greatly facilitates adhesion to the ACE2 receptor which facilitates fusion (mediated by a downstream spike domain) with the host cytoplasmic membrane, the entry point of viral RNA into the cell interior where it reproduces.

There are 182 complete covid-19 genomes as of today being studied with both wet lab and dry lab (bioinformatic) approaches. NextStrain collects all these and presents them as a branching phylogenetic tree that grows every day and sometimes gets rearranged.

This tree clusters closely related covid-19 genomes the same way that your desktop organizes related files into a nested folder hierarchy but using advanced statistical methods such as maximal likelihood models that have been under intense algorithmic development for half a century. However these trees can be made under many different assumptions and parameter sets. A tree that aligns amino acids (rather than nucleotides), eg those from the upstream half of the spike protein, might give a rather different topology from a whole genome nucleotide tree.

On the data side, the 182 genomes are mostly not the ones we want: the early ones. Many are just chains of descendants: A in Wuhan gave it to B in Milan and C in Vatican City, B gave it to D in Austria and E in Spain, C gave it to F, G and H in Dubai with 0-2 mutations at each step along the way. The real information lies in more covid-19 genomes from Wuhan but not descended from A.

This is useful early on in a pandemic for the tracebacks and self-quarantining that buy some (mostly squandered) preparedness time but as Sam documents above, that train left the station a month ago.

Molecular biologists want the genomes from the very earliest stages of viral spread in late Nov 2019 for five principal reasons:

-1- to work out the ancestral genome that first crossed the species barrier.
-2- to determine the carrier species because it may harbor many other coronavirus strains.
-3- to determine what adaptive changes took place that caused covid-19 to spread so virulently.
-4- to better understand mutational processes in covid-19 and future properties may evolve.
-4- to resolve whether mutational gain/loss of nucleotides represents an insertion or deletion.

However the epicenter of spread, which is not necessarily the epicenter of origin, has been bulldozed to the ground, its entire stock of wildlife incinerated and its infected denizens cremated without any genetic sampling. Under the circumstances, the focus was eradication; public health mandarins would hardly be bowing to requests for viral agent preservation from scientists.

Prior to the outbreak, Wuhan had two institutes (not one) collecting coronavirus genomes from wild bat populations and requesting isolates from other virology labs around the world, for example the Manitoba, Canada BSL-4 facility.

Assembling such a resource makes research sense in a country like China with strong science and a costly history of viral outbreaks in both livestock and humans. For its part, the US maintained a massive collection of anthrax strains until the FBI autoclaved the entire set after a rogue worker mailed a weaponized one around.

In summary, only a few of the 182 genomes originated early on in Wuhan but because of privacy considerations neither preprints, GenBank annotations or GISAID metadata make clear if any of the people were affiliated with the two corona virus laboratories.There is very little specific clinical information about the eight original ICU patients that triggered the ophthalmologist's alert. We don't know if any of the covid-19 genomes represents the transmitting patient with acute angle glaucoma.

Regardless, the genomes at NextStrain fall into two early-diverging clades (strains) that split early on and never later hybridized (through RNA recombination). These were noticed back in February and denoted L and S clades (for distinguishing mutations that affected leucine and serine codons). The topology of that branch of the tree has been stable ever since.

The original authors were careful to say of the two strains, the L type “MIGHT be more aggressive and spread more quickly”. However nobody since has honored that cautionary statement. Because of transmission chains, subsequent internal mutational divergences in both clades, and lack of healthy human volunteers, this idea is very difficult to pursue. Note that every node on the tree defines, through its descendants, its own clade or strain.

The NextStrain tree is unrooted, meaning that deep ancestry is not indicated by outgroups (closely related corona and other viruses). This is so bizarre that other researchers immediately added a variety of outgroups and recomputed the tree to see which of L and S is closer in genomic sequence to the first covid-19 to escape its initial animal host. And that the 'more ancestral' sequence is said to be the smaller clade, S. That needs to be revisited now that the data set is so much larger.

The phylogenetic tree unambiguously resolves the upstream spike protein mutation as an insertion. This was correctly inferred in the ‘uncanny’ preprint where it is called the 4th ‘HIV’ region. That’s not entirely off the mark but it’s better called the putative gain-of-function furin-like cleavage site resulting from the new four basic amino acid motif.

This preprint was withdrawn by author request; it was not retracted (shame on you FAS) and could conceivably resurface after massive revisions. It never mentions weaponization. The pdf is still offered at biorxiv; there’s a good discussion of its myriad problems too by others in the field:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1.full.pdf
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2020.1727299

To date, there’s still no good explanation for how the furin-friendly insertion arose in the spike protein. Some of the better spike protein analysis is provided in the links and images below.

https://tinyurl.com/th8zpq3 21 Jan 2020 discovery of furin site (in Chinese)
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.19.956581v1 images and structural analysis AC Walls et al
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220300528?via%3Dihub French paper on furin site
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3281273/ real furin motifs are longer
http://virological.org/t/evolutionary-epidemiological-analysis-of-93-genomes/405 GISAIS metadata for 93 genomes
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3324781/ RNA recombination
https://tinyurl.com/r9fm3zw remdesivir
https://tinyurl.com/uopplv2 L and S clades
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S193131282030072X?via%3Dihub early paper
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 09:57:02 PM by A-Team »

etienne

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2076 on: March 07, 2020, 01:49:21 PM »
Did anybody hear of a very mild version, cough with 2 days fever? For people above 40? I know people who had that coming back from Austria, my son is also almost healthy again after 3 days fever.

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2077 on: March 07, 2020, 01:52:32 PM »
Did he have the flu or was he tested for coronavirus?
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

etienne

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2078 on: March 07, 2020, 02:30:30 PM »
Did he have the flu or was he tested for coronavirus?
To be honest, with all the viruses around right now, we would only go to the physician if it's needed. It would be for a medical certificate (school or employer) or for antibiotics or some urgent treatment. We have been too often coming back with more viruses than what we had when we went there.

If you haven't been in an infected area, haven't been in contact with a confirmed case or are not hospitalized, there is no way to be tested in Luxembourg. I ask the question because I know people who have been together on ski holidays, one is since more than one week sick (also not tested because Austria was not an infected area at that time), and the others have very mild or no symptoms (1 or 2 days fever with cough being very mild compared to what is presented usually as COVID 19 symptoms). It's now too early to say how it will evolve for them, it seems that many cases suddenly become much more problematic. I don't know them enough to have regular news.

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2079 on: March 07, 2020, 03:06:10 PM »
I couldn't find any info on the course of disease for mild cases, but I would expect a spectrum of symptoms from (none) to a (bad flu) for the 80% that exhibit the mild form. The other 20% would obviously need hospitalization.

This graph seems to show the time range of symptoms...

There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

vox_mundi

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2080 on: March 07, 2020, 03:11:55 PM »
Another passenger who was on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship has died, bringing the total death toll from the ship to seven, according to Japanese broadcaster NHK, not counting the Australian who also died. Total=8
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

silkman

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2081 on: March 07, 2020, 04:04:33 PM »
This is one for the experts. I spent half of my career in drug discovery research but the pace and complexity of today’s molecular pharmacology leaves me full of admiration.

This paper, from a group of German scientists, seems to point to a specific mechanism to inhibit the entry of SARS-Cov-2 into human cells and, more immediately relevant, identifies a drug, camostat mesylate, which is on the market for other indications in Japan, as having significant in vitro activity against the Covid-19 virus.

This has to be good news.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30229-4

etienne

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2082 on: March 07, 2020, 04:07:24 PM »
I couldn't find any info on the course of disease for mild cases, but I would expect a spectrum of symptoms from (none) to a (bad flu) for the 80% that exhibit the mild form. The other 20% would obviously need hospitalization.

This graph seems to show the time range of symptoms...


If mild cases are cases that stop earlier, than everything is possible. On the graph, temperature is still at 99°F (37.2°C) after 4 days, 102.9°C (39°C) is the temperature my son had from Wednesday evening to Friday evening, that would be days 5, 6 and 7, he also had the vomiting and the fatigue but had the runny nose all the time. So he was just healthy 4 days early.

It could be, but there is no way to tell. There are also the reports of reinfections where symptoms are worse, maybe most people start with a mild case that is never detected.

Well, the main reason why I believe that it was not the COVID 19 is because nobody else got sick.

We can just wait and see, hoping for the best.

kassy

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2083 on: March 07, 2020, 04:17:54 PM »
Dutch cases

60 new infections
188 in total

112 imported , 103 from northern italy.
47 infected via contacts

29 cases no direct link.

Most new cases, 26 are from North Brabant. This are has the most cases without any links.
It was Carnaval there so 4 days of partying with large crowds.

Random testing in that province started today.

https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6035744/zestig-nieuwe-coronagevallen-in-nederland-in-totaal-188-besmettingen.html
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Pmt111500

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2084 on: March 07, 2020, 04:32:38 PM »
This is one for the experts. I spent half of my career in drug discovery research but the pace and complexity of today’s molecular pharmacology leaves me full of admiration.

This paper, from a group of German scientists, seems to point to a specific mechanism to inhibit the entry of SARS-Cov-2 into human cells and, more immediately relevant, identifies a drug, camostat mesylate, which is on the market for other indications in Japan, as having significant in vitro activity against the Covid-19 virus.

This has to be good news.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30229-4

Milder but longer, maybe even better.

Someone made emojis for medical personnel and patients.

oren

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2085 on: March 07, 2020, 04:56:58 PM »
Another passenger who was on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship has died, bringing the total death toll from the ship to seven, according to Japanese broadcaster NHK, not counting the Australian who also died. Total=8
A. This is not good. Verified death rate creeping up.
B. I wonder how many of them are still hospitalized. I hope not many.

pietkuip

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2086 on: March 07, 2020, 05:08:32 PM »
Another Iranian politician died of corona. Via The Guardian:

"The MP who died on Friday is Fatemeh Rahbar, a conservative lawmaker from Tehran, according to Tasnim. It did not say if she was included in the country’s official toll of 124 deaths from the virus, given on Friday.

On March 2, Tasnim reported the death of Mohammad Mirmohammadi, a member of the Expediency Council, intended to resolve disputes between parliament and the Guardian Council, a governmental body that vets electoral candidates among other duties."

She was born 1964: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatemeh_Rahbar
There must really be many more deaths in Iran that have not been diagnosed as corona.

Richard Rathbone

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2087 on: March 07, 2020, 05:12:24 PM »
Did anybody hear of a very mild version, cough with 2 days fever? For people above 40? I know people who had that coming back from Austria, my son is also almost healthy again after 3 days fever.

I might well be self-isolating and dialling 111 in the UK with those symptoms. Dry cough plus fever is close enough to warrant that under UK guidelines. Then let the professionals decide if my cough and fever were bad enough to warrant staying in isolation or immediate testing. I'm not sure anywhere else in the world has the capacity to deal with the volume of consultation and testing that generates though, so you need to follow whatever your local guidance is.

UK says isolate without any symptoms on return from an infected region; isolate and consult via phone on noticing symptoms whether or not you've travelled.

It becomes urgent to seek medical advice for your own health if shortage of breath is added to those symptoms, but in mild cases, its the other people that might catch it from you that you are protecting.

Current status in the UK

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public
Quote
As of 7am on 7 March 2020, 21,460 people have been tested in the UK, of which 21,254 were confirmed negative and 206 were confirmed as positive. Two patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

The relatively high negative rate is because the UK had prepared to test at a high rate, and is doing so, rather than having to cross its fingers and hope when there aren't clear indications a positive is likely.
 
No hotspots in England yet, still almost entirely a scattershot of imported cases and their immediate contacts, but so many imported cases being detected and the rates going up so fast that the Chief medic rates the chance of maintaining containment as slim to none. (Boris slapped him down for saying so publicly, but its a message the NHS needs to hear and act on even though the public still needs to act like containment is possible)

I'm starting to get the right handwashing habits for control, but its one thing to work out when I need to do it and another to remember at the right time.

I also checked how much bogroll I had in stock. :)  I'm not Australian, but I do think upping my minimum stock level by two rolls makes sense.

pietkuip

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2088 on: March 07, 2020, 05:16:46 PM »
Swedish health authorities keep repeating that children do not catch this virus, do not infect other children, parents or grandparents. I don't think that makes sense, as that would be totally different from other contagious diseases.

I just heard Anders Tegnell say this again on the radio. Apparently, he has not read this latest paper: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0239_article

Quote
We found a sharply increasing proportion of infected children (from 2% before January 24 to 13% for January 25–February 5; p<0.001), implying that increased exposure for children and intrafamily transmission might contribute substantially to the epidemic. Although substantially higher after January 25, 2020, the proportion of infected children in our study before January 24, 2020, was similar to the proportions reported by Li et al.

The possible reasons for the discrepancy after January 25 might be the low proportion of children exposed early in the outbreak; early detection for children who had had close contact with persons with diagnosed or suspected cases after strict control measures were conducted comprehensively; and difficult identification of the relatively milder clinical signs and symptoms in young patients than in infected adults (6), especially in the setting of limited resources in the early phase of the outbreak in Wuhan.

We suspect that community transmission and intrafamily transmission have potentially become the new transmission modes in the city.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 05:33:26 PM by pietkuip »

etienne

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2089 on: March 07, 2020, 05:29:45 PM »
The world seems divided between the ones who tells you testing is important, and the ones who would like to be tested but can't because they don't fulfill the criterias. Than you have the happy few who are tested.
I see these type of behaviour everywhere, ambitious climate change politics where nothing happens because requirements to be subsidised are just impossible to fulfill, ambitious education programs that just don't match with the needs...

TerryM

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2090 on: March 07, 2020, 06:15:06 PM »
etienne


Very good news indeed!


Stay well and don't relax your guard because of your son's presumptive escape/recovery.
..............
I'm to attend a (wake)? for a friend in Toronto later this month. In normal times it would be a very crowded affair with hundreds wanting to pay their respects.
A few will be deeply hurt if I'm absent.


I'm afraid that I'll chose the safer, if less compassionate course.
At the moment I'm putting off a decision while awaiting more information.


Asking his longtime companion to postpone the remembrance ceremony seems both reasonable and heartless.
As the death toll rises more of us will be faced with similar situations.
Terry

etienne

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2091 on: March 07, 2020, 06:27:56 PM »
Terry,
If it would be possible to have enough face masks and if hands would not be shaken, I guess the few present would be safe.
What can be suggested is another form of ceremony. I wonder how they do in Wuhan.
Etienne
 

Sam

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2092 on: March 07, 2020, 09:26:13 PM »
Vox,

In the graphic you shared the red box for SARS-COV-2 is shown about where the early epidemiological work suggested it should be. In an exponential rapid growth condition this early evaluation severely understates both the infectivity and lethality of the virus.

Based on current data the red box should properly be located where the words “People infected by each sick person” are in the graph with lethality between 1 and 5% (with 4-4.5% being most likely), and infectivity (R0) being between 6 and 18 with the most likely range being 9-14, barring mass quarantine. 

That puts its infectivity between Chicken Pox and Measles, and its lethality at about half that of SARS, Polio, and Spanish Flu.

That is a really bad combination. It leads to bad decisions, delayed response, rapid spread, and high morbidity and mortality. It also leads to huge numbers of people being sick and dying almost simultaneously.

Sam

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2093 on: March 07, 2020, 09:45:10 PM »
Pandemic Pandemania Causes Global Economic Crisis
https://thegreatrecession.info/blog/pandemic-pandemania-causes-global-economic-crisis/
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Predictions: The changes that are happening appear to me to be transitional, not transitory. The world will not be the same if this virus doesn’t start extinguish itself in warmer weather in another month. Transition will come because people are not the same. They are responding with more alarm than I’ve ever seen. They are making overnight massive changes in how they operate their businesses and their lives. Everything is changing swiftly now … in social habits, business practices, religious practices, stock re-evaluations, bond interest, Fed rate cuts. Fear is motivating people to move quickly … whether for better or worse remains to be seen. Even the Fed, which used to move at glacial speed, has had to make major changes between regular scheduled meetings that it didn’t want to be making at all this year.
The next phase economically will be the knock-on effects financially as one trade starts to force another kind of trade and then as credit starts to crack in two or three months. Decrepit financial structures and hidden rot will crumble under this kind of stress if the virus doesn’t quickly fade. Falling institution will crash into each other if this virus goes on long enough.
As Warren Buffet has said, when the tide goes out, we’ll all see who was swimming naked. If the viral spread goes on for even a couple of months, a lot of things will have shifted beyond a simple bounce back to where they were. As soon as investors realize that this is a transition, markets that were already way above economic reality will collapse down to the worsening reality in even greater panic.
If, on the other hand, spring sunshine snuffs the virus out in a month or two, maybe things can still settle down and markets could even recover before the end of the year. That is my only caveat — if the virus quickly goes away as nature works its own delivery. (A change in the driving force of change, itself, that is not predictable economically or knowable by mere mortals.)

Archimid

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2094 on: March 07, 2020, 09:53:37 PM »
Saw this on reddit, with a source. Seems like a plausible explanation for the low South Korean CFR.

Quote
Absolutely. Demographics are critical when discussing the fatality rate. If you're interested, here's a comment I made about the outbreak in South Korea:

The current fatality rate in Korea is 0.65%. Some important information to better understand why this may be:

The below applies to Daegu (the epicenter of the outbreak, representing about 4/5 of all cases in SK) only.

Of those infected, 38.0% are in their 20s. This is a reflection of the younger demographic of the Shincheonji cult.

13.7% are in their 40s, and 18.3% are in their 50s

only 6% of the infected are 70+

for reference, here is the age distribution of South Korea

2/3 of the infected are women

3/4 of the infected in Daegu are from the Shincheonji cult.

1760 are hospitalized

Over 90% of cases are unresolved at this time.

Overall, this provides a possible explanation for the relatively low mortality rate we've seen from Korea thus far. According to worldometers, women are less likely to die from COVID-19, likely correlating with a lower prevalence of vascular conditions and smoking history.

https://blog.naver.com/daegu_news/221840129905
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be cause

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2095 on: March 07, 2020, 09:59:56 PM »
a good weekend to flog a golf ball if you are POTUS . How he plays with his head in the sand is beyond me . Even with almost no testing , the USA is riding high in the charts .. according to the latest numbers from Worldometer . 9th in the world for cases and 5th already in the table of deaths . It is obvious that the Great Leader intends the USA to top the charts ASAP .
the latest update shows active cases outside China are only 375 less than in China , and today's figure for those recovered in China will not be released until later , so today the world overtakes China . And this is just the beginning . b.c.
 
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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2096 on: March 07, 2020, 10:18:27 PM »

Richard Rathbone

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2097 on: March 07, 2020, 10:36:22 PM »
Swedish health authorities keep repeating that children do not catch this virus, do not infect other children, parents or grandparents. I don't think that makes sense, as that would be totally different from other contagious diseases.


Children clearly catch it, entire families have tested positive in the UK.

WHO said yesterday in their comparison with flu https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200306-sitrep-46-covid-19.pdf
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Children are important drivers of influenza virus transmission in the community. For COVID-19 virus, initial data indicates that children are less affected than adults and that clinical attack rates in the 0-19 age group are low.
Further preliminary data from household transmission studies in China suggest that children are infected from adults, rather than vice versa.

The risk to and from children is less than you might think from experience with flu. Other transmission routes need to be worried about first, but its probably not zero risk.

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2098 on: March 07, 2020, 11:58:24 PM »
Dr. Bonnie Henry, British Columbia (Canada) Provincial Health Officer, press conference update on the outbreak here in my home province.

She breaks down at one point (start @ 6:30)... This woman was an operational lead during the SARS outbreak in Toronto, and also worked with the WHO in Pakistan (polio) and Uganda (Ebola outbreak). She really knows her stuff...

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Archimid

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Re: COVID-19
« Reply #2099 on: March 08, 2020, 02:06:59 AM »
You know how incredibly frustrating it has to be to know exactly how to stop massive death and have it being sabotage by a mass murderer like Trump?

Honestly, I'm at a loss at the American response. I know this was 100% intentional.  There is no way the US has no testing capability. The US could have easily secured PPE supplies. But they didn't.

The federal response is actively seeking to make Covid endemic as quickly as possible. They must truly believe this is basically just a new cold. The all-mighty federal government better have some really mind-blowing technology that makes the US immune to this thing,

But I doubt the do. What they do have is Donald Trump directing the response. In the US the Federal government is burning bridges.  They are making sure this becomes endemic.                                           
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