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How many will die of Covid19 in the 2020s directly and indirectly

Less than 10,000
10 (14.7%)
10,000-100,000
9 (13.2%)
100,000-1,000,000
9 (13.2%)
One to ten million
13 (19.1%)
Ten to a hundred million
14 (20.6%)
Hundred million to one billion
9 (13.2%)
Over a billion
4 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 68

Voting closed: March 03, 2020, 12:39:52 AM

Author Topic: COVID-19  (Read 114261 times)

oren

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #950 on: February 17, 2020, 10:21:11 AM »
We should not be worry about China .
We should be concerned with cases out side of China.
Even more concerning is regions  that are reporting statistically less cases than we should reasonable expect.
Yes. The Chinese are taking harsh measures, and they seem to be working to slow the spread. But other countries are not expected to follow suit.

be cause

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #951 on: February 17, 2020, 10:45:11 AM »
another 99 cases on the Diamond Princess .. this boat is overwhelming the Japanese health system all by itself .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
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Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #952 on: February 17, 2020, 10:53:06 AM »
We should not be worry about China .
We should be concerned with cases out side of China.
Even more concerning is regions  that are reporting statistically less cases than we should reasonable expect.

For good or ill, we now live in a hyper-connected just-in-time multi-national world. What happens in any country quickly affects every other country through that web of dependencies.

So far, the world has seemed insulated from the shock of the virus spread in China. That is a false perception.  In reality, the interdependent chains have already broken. The lag time in the system just hasn’t quite yet been exhausted.

We have seen the first impacts with tourism and travel. Then with small package delivery. All of that is just inconvenient.

Inside China the disruptions have been enormous. With their command economy, those impacts are also not immediately apparent, though they are now becoming apparent.

For international trade, the ships are now idle. The last deliveries have been made or soon will be. The entire cost structure for shipping has now collapsed. Soon, the supply chains will run dry for parts essential to all sorts of products and industries. Replacements are difficult or non existent. It isn’t now a simple matter of cost competition. Stuff just isn’t being made and isn’t available. The whole basis for free market substitution just had piles of rocks and acid thrown into the gears.

That will be hard to restart too.

The financial markets have not as yet recognized the severity of the disruption. There have been localized impacts, especially in China. The big shocks are yet to come.

When those hit, markets globally will be rocked. That means layoffs and job losses. That means huge stock price and commodity impacts. And those will go in every direction. Suppliers, particularly of food stuffs, have lost markets. At the same time, buyers in those markets have no supplier.

As the markets get rocked by that, leaders will no doubt try to prioritize restoring those markets. But that means people going to work, which means spreading disease. Etc...

What happened in China will not stay in China, even if the borders were sealed and no disease escaped. But it did escape, as nations were slow to respond, and slower yet to understand what it takes to stop a pandemic. The chances are very high that the spread was delayed and not stopped, and once the disease begins to explode in South Asia, Africa, Europe and the Americas, that issues related to freedom and money will subvert efforts to stop the spread.

We already see aspects of that with passengers on cruise ships failing to understand how critical it is that they -not- be allowed back into their own countries until they are assuredly free of disease. They see their personal liberties and financial welfare as paramount. And there are important factors there. But in their personal quest, they put at risk quite literally everyone. There are no easy answers here. And there will be unfairness and injustice.

In China we see things in videos that we have no context for. These appear at least to be egregious violations of personal rights. That may or may not be true. We lack context. But we are or tend to be very quick to jump to conclusions. And no matter what is actually happening (good or ill), there is the larger context of the out of control rapid spread of a highly fatal disease. No decisions here are going to be easy. Some will be very harsh. I do not mean that to justify injustice. Injustice is wrong. In the chaos of catastrophe, just as in war, extremely bad things happen - just or not. And that does not excuse them, or minimize them.

It also is not a basis to grind old axes or animosities, or to exercise racism or xenophobia. This didn’t happen because of an economic system. Neither would a different economic system have fared better. Arguably, the command structure of government and economy in China is all that allowed the extremely rapid response. In other countries those could not occur, and as a result, the explosive spread of the virus would have gone unchecked.

This didn’t happen because of race, creed or belief. This is a disease doing what diseases do. Racism, xenophobia, classism, idealism and the rest have no useful place here. They only serve to distract us from dealing with the disease and it’s attendant impacts on and in every other aspect of society. They can and already have caused horrible negative impacts of their own. They have misled and distracted leaders from thinking clearly and acting correctly and decisively. We have to minimize those disruptions. We must be clear headed.

Etc...

Sam




Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #953 on: February 17, 2020, 11:06:02 AM »
And by the way, as a reminder, when markets and economies collapse the public blames politicians and leaders. Governments fall. Strife of a dozen kinds breaks out.

We have yet to see how the economic ripples of the actions already taken in China will play out around the world. That will take many months.

In the mean time, the virus is still spreading and taking its toll in a thousand different ways. And if and when that reaches the west, the impacts will be worse.

In America in particular, the for profit health care system is already broken and overtaxed. Even a slight increase in burden could entirely break it.

Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #954 on: February 17, 2020, 11:47:34 AM »
Maybe new cases are dropping. Maybe they are not. Since these are Chinese statistics they have a cloud over their reliability. In a week or so we should see. It’s gotta peak eventually, if just from running out of victims.
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Gray-Wolf

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #955 on: February 17, 2020, 12:35:55 PM »
Maybe new cases are dropping. Maybe they are not. Since these are Chinese statistics they have a cloud over their reliability. In a week or so we should see. It’s gotta peak eventually, if just from running out of victims.

I believe W.H.O. are now on the ground in China so we may begin to get a clearer picture of the outbreak when they report back?
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crandles

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #956 on: February 17, 2020, 03:41:19 PM »
New suspected cases +1563
New recoveries +1853

so past peak (existing+suspected) cases?

(currently showing 57592 existing+ 7264 suspected =64857)
by sams posted numbers
16 Feb 65274
15 Feb 65920
14 Feb 65822

Quote
It’s gotta peak eventually, if just from running out of victims.

Lockdown on 23rd Jan should not be expected to cause immediate cessation, it still had opportunity to spread within families. 25 days later (2-3 6-10day periods) it is (Edit: maybe) running out of contacts ..... but if people go back to work, lots more potential contacts will be available.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 04:42:23 PM by crandles »

wili

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #957 on: February 17, 2020, 04:07:54 PM »
Again, the numbers may represent other limits--of testing kits and of medical personal to make assessments... These kinds of viruses tend to hit the medical community particularly hard.

Quote
Of the nearly 140 patients in the Zhongnan Hospital study, nearly 30 percent were healthcare workers.

https://www.sciencealert.com/latest-research-on-covid-19-reveals-the-pattern-of-symptoms-to-watch-for
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 04:13:37 PM by wili »
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crandles

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #958 on: February 17, 2020, 04:56:10 PM »
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

showing increase in other locations(other than mainland China) from 780 to 1.3k but doesn't seem to show where these extra cases are. Perhaps it is mainland China but not yet correctly allocated to region?

gerontocrat

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #959 on: February 17, 2020, 05:08:36 PM »
From a long article in the Guardian a quote on the situation in JAPAN

Quote
There is concern, too, over the growing number of reported cases in Japan involving people who have not visited China recently or knowingly had direct contact with people arriving from the country.

“We agreed that the present situation represents the early stage of a domestic outbreak. This could progress further,” said Takaji Wakita, the chief of the National Institute of Infectious Diseases, after the first meeting of a taskforce at the prime minister’s office.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/17/coronavirus-japan-braces-for-hundreds-more-cases-as-another-china-city-locked-down

But the Financial Markets saying everything is good & getting better

Bloomberg headlines...
Quote
Europe Stocks Rise With U.S. Futures on China Lift: Markets Wrap

4 HOURS AGO
JPMorgan Says Record Highs in European Stocks Can Last and Widen
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 05:14:27 PM by gerontocrat »
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Alexander555

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Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #961 on: February 17, 2020, 07:31:48 PM »
Reuters has an excellent piece on the scale of the lockdown. It is now total for 77 million Chinese and impacts 500 million, one-third of the Chinese population.

https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-LOCKDOWN/0100B5EF3LJ/index.html

Forbes is beginning to understand the supply chain implications.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billconerly/2020/02/15/covid-19-coronavirus-and-complex-supply-chains/#23e8e397538f

Sam

harpy

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #962 on: February 17, 2020, 07:45:00 PM »
How long will the Japanese maintain business as usual, and no Plan B for the Olympics? ...

Well you can get some clue as to how Japan will handle this - look at the way they handled the ongoing radiation fallout and 'cleanup' from the Fukushima disaster.  Not well; not transparently, not effectively, just awful.   

It will not be pretty, particularly with increasing evidence of reinfection causing increased mortality.  In any closed environment where patients are patiently waiting to get over the disease, it seems capable of reinfecting them and it hits harder second time.  We should be very afraid.

The healthcare workers are going to be the most damaged by this entire thing.  Being a worker in a hospital is going to be the equivalent of working at a super-fund site.


grixm

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #963 on: February 17, 2020, 07:54:33 PM »
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

showing increase in other locations(other than mainland China) from 780 to 1.3k but doesn't seem to show where these extra cases are. Perhaps it is mainland China but not yet correctly allocated to region?

It's probably a bug, earlier today there was a short window where it showed the "Other" (now "Diamond Princess") category as over 700 cases, before it quickly went back down. They probably by chance used that time to create the daily total.

vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #964 on: February 17, 2020, 08:25:13 PM »


---------------------------

WHO Team to Assess Crisis, China Says
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051026/americans-who-team-assess-coronavirus-crisis-china-says

A team of medical experts from the World Health Organisation (WHO), including specialists from the US, will visit Beijing and the Chinese provinces of Guangdong and Sichuan from Monday to assess the country’s efforts to contain the spread of a deadly coronavirus, according to the Chinese foreign ministry.

But Wuhan or any other part of Hubei, the central Chinese province at the epicentre of the outbreak, was not on the itinerary, raising concerns among medical experts about the transparency of the mission.

--------------------------

Hubei Residents Banned from Leaving Homes as Province Introduces Tough New Coronavirus Curbs
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051031/hubei-residents-banned-leaving-homes-province-introduces-tough

New controls on movements introduced after authorities pledge to step up efforts to stop spread of Covid-19

Restrictions mean only person in each household will be allowed outside to buy supplies every three days

-------------------------------

Xiaogan, China’s Second Worst-hit City, Bans People from Leaving Their Homes
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051022/coronavirus-xiaogan-chinas-second-worst-hit-city-bans-people

Order applies to urban residents, while rural villagers cannot visit each other or hold gatherings, and those who flout the order face 10 days in detention

Some supermarkets and pharmacies will remain open to deliver supplies

---------------------------

China Clamps Down on Coronavirus Rumours, Beijing Doctors Warned Over ‘Misleading the Public’
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3050958/china-clamps-down-coronavirus-rumours-beijing-doctors-warned

Letter from three state-backed doctor associations urges discretion when releasing information about the coronavirus, which has infected over 71,000 people

The warning came a week after the death of Li Wenliang, the young doctor who was reprimanded when he tried to warn people about the initial outbreak in Wuhan
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #965 on: February 17, 2020, 08:35:29 PM »
Infection Moves From Ship to Plane: 14 passengers on US Charter Flights Evacuating the Diamond Princess Have Tested Positive for Coronavirus
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/17/health/evacuated-passengers-test-positive-coronavirus/index.html

Fourteen people who were evacuated from the Diamond Princess cruise ship and flown back to the United States on charter flights tested positive for novel coronavirus, according to a joint statement from the US Departments of State and Health and Human Services.

The passengers are among the more than 300 people removed from the ship, which is docked off the Japanese port city of Yokohama, Sunday night and flown to military bases in the United States.

US officials were notified that they had tested positive for coronavirus during the evacuation process, after passengers had disembarked the ship, the agencies said in the joint statement Monday. The passengers had been tested two to three days before the evacuation flights, the statement said.

"After consultation with HHS officials, including experts from the HHS Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response, the State Department made the decision to allow the 14 individuals, who were in isolation, separated from other passengers, and continued to be asymptomatic, to remain on the aircraft to complete the evacuation process," the agencies said.

---------------------

10 Diamond Princess Passengers Deemed “High Risk” and Taken to Nebraska Hospital
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/17/coronavirus-live-updates.html

Ten Diamond Princess cruise ship passengers deemed high risk, along with their spouses, have been transported to the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha for isolation, U.S. State Department officials said.

Three passengers who were flown to Travis Air Force Base in California experienced elevated temperatures and were taken to a local hospital for evaluation. They will be cleared to return home after 14 days under supervision.

Roughly 60 Americans are still in Japan, including U.S. citizens who are hospitalized.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Grubbegrabben

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #966 on: February 17, 2020, 09:23:21 PM »
Found on Reddit (/r/COVID19)

Today China has published a paper with detailed data on more than 44,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19.

Uploaded on github: https://github.com/cmrivers/ncov/blob/master/COVID-19.pdf

Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #967 on: February 17, 2020, 09:49:51 PM »
Found on Reddit (/r/COVID19)

Today China has published a paper with detailed data on more than 44,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19.

Uploaded on github: https://github.com/cmrivers/ncov/blob/master/COVID-19.pdf

Wow! Thank you for finding and posting this!

I just did a quick scan. One bit of caution. The case fatality rates are naive. They are based on fatalities to date and cases to date. They do NOT account for cases in hospital who have not yet either died or recovered. That then results on a falsely low case fatality rate.

In the aggregate - through today using naive calculations the best we can say is that the case fatality rate is more than 2.4% and less than 20.5%. It is likely in the 7-12% range.

This data does show clearly the huge age disparity on case fatality rates.

Sam

SteveMDFP

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #968 on: February 17, 2020, 10:10:50 PM »
First antiviral drug approved to fight novel coronavirus
https://www.zmescience.com/science/first-antiviral-drug-coronavirus-0423/

"Three potential anti-COVID19 medicines have been officially announced by the Ministry of Science and Technology: Favilavir, Chloroquine Phosphate, and Remdesivir. They all initially showed more obvious curative effects and lower adverse reactions in clinical trials."

For those of us in the developed world, this is very reassuring.  We still need a rapid test so treatment can be started promptly.  The first and third of these agents aren't generally available yet.  I suspect they're still under patent.  Exactly who pays and how much may prove to be very thorny matters.

At least chloroquine is readily available already as a malaria treatment.  Generics are available, but the stuff seems to be ungodly expensive in the US.  Surprise, surprise.

Some of the uninsured in the US may possibly have as dismal prospects for prompt treatment as people in sub-saharan Africa.

Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #969 on: February 17, 2020, 10:12:58 PM »
Steve,

So the obvious question: is quinine useful?

Sam

SteveMDFP

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #970 on: February 17, 2020, 10:17:52 PM »
Steve,

So the obvious question: is quinine useful?

Sam

Damned if I know.  I believe quinine and chloroquine have the same mechanism of action against malaria, with chloroquine being much more potent.  For coronavirus, I doubt there's any data anywhere about quinine.

Still, expect a run on quinine-containing tonic water at your local supermarkets.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #971 on: February 17, 2020, 11:45:14 PM »
The gin (OK, do add some tonic water) will take my fears away. [/sarc]
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vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #972 on: February 18, 2020, 12:00:52 AM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #973 on: February 18, 2020, 01:32:09 AM »
#Coronavirus has killed 1,868 on Chinese mainland as of Monday, over 12,000 patients recovered. Other key figures:

- 72,436 confirmed cases, another 60 in HK (1 death), 10 in Macao and 22 in Taiwan (1 death)

- 12,552 discharged from hospital

- 11,741 in critical condition

https://mobile.twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1229560035417583618
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #974 on: February 18, 2020, 01:38:57 AM »
https://ncov.dxy.cn/ncovh5/view/pneumonia?from=groupmessage&isappinstalled=0

截至 2020-02-17 16:21 全国数据统计
数据说明

58,097 现存确诊      +92 较昨日
  6,242 现存疑似  +1,432 较昨日
11,741 现存重症  +1,097 较昨日
72,528 累计确诊  +1,891 较昨日
  1,870 累计死亡      +98 较昨日
12,561 累计治愈  +1,701 较昨日

As of 2020-02-17 16:21 National Statistics
the data shows

58,097 Existing confirmed diagnosis      +92 since yesterday
  6,242 Suspected                           +1,432 since yesterday
11,741 Existing severe                    +1,097 since yesterday
72,528 Cumulative diagnoses           +1,891 since yesterday
  1,870 Cumulative deaths                    +98 since yesterday
12,561 Cumulative                          +1,701 since yesterday

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Johns Hopkins
73,272 Confirmed
  1,869 Deaths
12,589 Recovered

https://nextstrain.org/ncov?l=radial&p=grid
95 genomes sequenced

Sam

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #975 on: February 18, 2020, 01:47:00 AM »
Cancer patients in SARS-CoV-2 infection: a nationwide analysis in China
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(20)30096-6/fulltext



Bad luck if you have cancer ...

Patients with cancer are more susceptible to infection than individuals without cancer because of their systemic immunosuppressive state caused by the malignancy and anticancer treatments, such as chemotherapy or surgery.5,  6,  7,  8 Therefore, these patients might be at increased risk of COVID-19 and have a poorer prognosis.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #976 on: February 18, 2020, 02:08:29 AM »
747s Carrying Americans Exposed To Coronavirus Used New Quarantine Box For Infected Flyers
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32248/747s-carrying-americans-exposed-to-coronavirus-used-new-quarantine-box-for-infected-flyers



What is interesting, in the article the State Dept claimed that the 14 infected passengers were isolated in this unit. However, it only has room for 4-6?
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

SteveMDFP

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #977 on: February 18, 2020, 03:12:49 AM »

What is interesting, in the article the State Dept claimed that the 14 infected passengers were isolated in this unit. However, it only has room for 4-6?

Al Jazeera TV just reported that the 14 were seated at the rear, separated from the others by a white curtain.  As they'd already disembarked, I'm not sure they would have been allowed back on the ship.

wili

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #978 on: February 18, 2020, 03:35:15 AM »
vox, the embedded graph from that cnbc article you linked to (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/coronavirus-covid-19-latest-updates-china-death.html ) looks like exponential growth of cases confirmed outside China.

If so, and if that trajectory continues, we should expect about a million cases beyond China by about the end of March, and maybe a billion by June!
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #979 on: February 18, 2020, 05:40:44 AM »
All Infected People In Wuhan Being 'Rounded Up'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/18/coronavirus-outbreak-updates-coronavirus-live-updates-hubei-deaths-china-wuhan-outbreak-apple-iphone-death-toll-latest-news

In China, the fight to contain the virus is continuing despite encouragement that the number of new cases has fallen below 2,000 for the first time since January.

The Global Times newspaper reports that a “dragnet style” operation is under way in Wuhan, the epicentre of the outbreak, to make sure all those infected are “rounded up”.

The operation was ordered by the city’s new party chief, Wang Zhonglin, on Sunday and aims to be completed in three days. Big data and AI would be used to assist the operation.

... If Wuhan fails to round up all #COVID19 patients, no matter how many makeshift hospitals we build, it would be inadequate to curb the epidemic, analysts said.

https://mobile.twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1229536012055044097

According to a press release from the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affair outlining discussions of a meeting, chaired by Chinese premier Li Keqiang, who met a national-level group tasked with responding to the COVID-19 outbreak on Monday:

... “The outbreak is trending in a positive direction in the country overall, although the epidemic situation in the epicenter of Wuhan and Hubei remains fluid and complex,” according to the official translation of the release.

The meeting also discussed the “need to strike a proper balance between epidemic control and economic and social development,” the release said. “While further pursuing a targeted outbreak response, work and production should be resumed in an orderly way,” it added.

-------------------------------------

14 Americans Infected With Coronavirus from the Diamond Princess Flown Home In 'Isolation Box' Onboard the Plane
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-japan-cruise-passengers-isolated-plane-2020-2



US officials confirm that among the hundreds of Americans evacuated from the Diamond Princess cruise ship, **14 passengers tested positive for #coronavirus** and had to be sequestered in the isolation unit you see in this video taken on board the flight.

Video at link: https://mobile.twitter.com/janisfrayer/status/1229300620391112704



... Sources said embassy and U.S. government officials decided to let the infected evacuees, who were asymptomatic (not exhibiting symptoms) at the time, board both flights. Embassy officials claimed the 14 infected Americans were “fit to fly." The 14 were confined inside a specialized containment area on the evacuation aircraft where they were isolated and monitored.

-------------------------

** an official with the bureau of medical services at the US State Department, said that three additional people were found to have a fever on the flight to California, and moved to isolation. Two passengers on the flight to Texas were also found to have a fever and isolated.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 07:24:48 AM by vox_mundi »
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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #980 on: February 18, 2020, 09:31:59 AM »
New French Health Minister: 'Credible Risk' of Coronavirus Pandemic
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-france-idUSKBN20C0QU

New French health minister Olivier Veran said on Tuesday there is a “credible risk” the coronavirus outbreak could turn Into a pandemic, Reuters reports.

“This is both a working assumption and a credible risk,”
Veran told France Info radio, when asked about the possibility of the coronavirus becoming a pandemic.

He added France was ready to deal with all the possibilities and its health system was sufficiently robust and well-equipped.

-------------------------

Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 1,800 as 780 Million Remain On Lockdown In China
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-17-20-intl-hnk/h_13d55310039b7f410afb825953c3d720

According to analysis by CNN of Chinese government orders, some 780 million people are still living under some form of restrictive movement, including all of Hubei, the northeastern province of Liaoning, and China's two most important cities, Beijing and Shanghai. Restrictions include everything from self-quarantines to limits on who can come and go from neighborhoods.

In an almost unprecedented move, the central government announced late Monday that it was considering postponing its annual meeting of the National People's Congress (NPC), a gathering of the the country's nearly 3,000 national legislators, as it continues to deal with the fallout from the coronavirus outbreak.

On Tuesday, Liu Zhiming, director of the Wuchang hospital in Wuhan, the city at the center of the outbreak, himself died of the virus, according to a statement released by local government authorities.

Liu was a neurosurgeon and is the first hospital director to die as a result of the coronavirus epidemic. His death could renew criticism that the government has not done enough to protect frontline medical workers, many of whom are overworked and overstretched. Also on Tuesday, state media reported that doctors and nurses who die while trying to contain the outbreak will officially be designated as "martyrs."

... The virus is not as deadly as SARS or MERS, both of which are related to the current coronavirus, and more than 80% of patients "have mild disease and will recover."

"In about 14% of cases, the virus causes severe diseases including pneumonia and shortness of breath. And about 5% of patients have critical diseases including respiratory failure, septic shock and multiorgan failure," he said. "In 2% of reported cases, the virus is fatal, and the risk of death increases the older you are. We see relatively few cases among children.

----------------------------------

Coronavirus: Do Herbal Remedies Work, and Could They Help in the Stricken Epicentre of Hubei?
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051009/coronavirus-do-herbal-remedies-work-and-could-they-help-stricken

June I Province was unusual in not giving its patients herbs, and has been ordered to do so after treatment elsewhere in China suggested it may help

Traditional methods continue to divide opinion and their success is difficult to gauge when used together or in combination with modern drugs

----------------------

Disease Is Roughly 20 Times Deadlier Than Seasonal Flu
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

Official figures from China suggest that the disease caused by the coronavirus has a fatality rate of at least 2.3 percent. In contrast, the flu’s fatality rate in the United States is 0pandemic[/nt.
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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #981 on: February 18, 2020, 12:01:48 PM »
Japan says 88 more people have tested positive for coronavirus on Diamond Princess cruise ship
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/coronavirus-covid-19-latest-updates-china-death.html

Japan has reported a further 88 people aboard the Diamond Princess cruise liner have tested positive for the coronavirus, taking the total number of on-board infections to 542.

Japan’s public broadcaster NHK, citing the health ministry, said Tuesday that 65 of the 88 people found to have contracted COVID-19 had no symptoms.

A total of 2,404 passengers and crew members have been tested for the virus, the health ministry reportedly said, with 542 infections.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #982 on: February 18, 2020, 12:59:34 PM »
China’s Poultry, Eggs Supply Under Pressure as Frozen Pork, Chicken, Beef Pile Up at Ports
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3051147/coronavirus-chinas-poultry-eggs-supply-under-pressure-frozen

Restrictions on moving livestock and extended holidays have paralysed supply chains, leaving farmers stuck with feed shortages and large inventories of birds and eggs

Thousands of containers of frozen pork, chicken and beef are also piling up and rotting at some of China’s major ports as transport disruptions and labour shortages slow operations

China’s supply of poultry and egg products may be hurt in the second and third quarter of 2020 as the country tackles the coronavirus outbreak, agriculture ministry official Yang Zhenhai said at a State Council briefing on Tuesday.

... Yang said that since the coronavirus outbreak, which has led to more than 1,800 deaths, live poultry markets have been closed, transport of baby and live poultry has been curtailed and slaughterhouses have been shut down.

The government was taking steps to address the feed shortage and resume logistics, with a third of feed manufacturers yet to resume production, the ministry said.

China is the world’s second-largest poultry producer and has been ramping up output to fill a huge meat shortage after an African swine fever epidemic decimated its pig herd.

... “The loss of the entire poultry industry would be very serious,” Yang said.

... Meanwhile, according to Bloomberg, thousands of containers of frozen pork, chicken and beef are also piling up at some of China’s major ports as transport disruptions and labour shortages slow operations, people familiar with the matter said.

... On Sunday, China also announced that it would remove the import ban on all US poultry products with its own farms under threat from the deadly H5N1 bird flu.



----------------------------

More Than Two Thirds of China’s Migrant Labourers Not Yet Back at Work
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3051175/coronavirus-more-two-thirds-chinas-migrant-labourers-not-yet

Less than one third of China’s 291 million migrant workers have returned to their jobs because of the coronavirus outbreak, the transport ministry says

The delay could seriously disrupt China’s manufacturing and services sectors, which do not have the luxury of working from home

Some 120 million migrant workers are expected to return to their jobs in the second half of February, bringing the workforce to about two thirds of its full capacity. The remaining 100 million will return in March if the virus – which has killed more than 1,800 people and infected over 70,000 – is brought under control, said Liu Xiaoming, a vice-transport minister.

While Beijing is pushing for a resumption of normal economic activity, full-scale production is being hampered by containment measures, including quarantine periods and requirements that businesses provide staff with face masks.

... Most small firms, a cornerstone of economic activity and jobs, do not have reserves to weather a major economic storm.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 02:22:01 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #983 on: February 18, 2020, 01:26:23 PM »
Coronavirus: The Calm Before The Storm?
https://www.peakprosperity.com/coronavirus-the-calm-before-the-storm/
Quote
Good updates on the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic (aka covid-19) are becoming harder to obtain as governments tighten their grip on news sources.

The data being shared, particularly by the Chinese, are increasingly hard to believe. They don’t match the massive response the government is undertaking.



Likewise, outside of China, reported cases remain lower than we would expect given the powerful R0 (i.e., infectiousness) of the virus, as well as its long asymptomatic incubation period.

Are we being intentionally kept in the dark?

Quite possibly. Chris walks through the possible reasons why, and points to the stock markets as a prime example of disinformation.

They’re currently being used to send an “everything is fine” signal, while in reality, the global economy is taking multiple gut punches from the disruption of the many supply chains dependent on China’s (currently quarantined) workers.

Is this current period of puzzling silence from officials the calm before the storm?
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vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #984 on: February 18, 2020, 02:32:27 PM »
‘Stopping Human-to-Human Spread is Key’
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051063/coronavirus-chinas-hubei-province-records-1807-new-cases-93

Zhong Nanshan, China’s top respiratory disease expert, said the situation in Wuhan, the epicentre of the outbreak, hinged on whether human-to-human transmission could be contained, which in turn depended on separating Covid-19 patients from those with seasonal influenza.

“How to separate Covid-19 patients from seasonal influenza patients, and how to separate healthy people from Covid-19 patients, and how to separate other patients from Covid-19 patients: if you don’t solve that problem, human-to-human transmissions will not stop,” Zhong told a briefing on Tuesday.

-----------------------------

Gottlieb Warns Japan Is On the ‘Cusp’ of an Outbreak
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/coronavirus-latest-updates.html

Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said the public should start focusing on COVID-19 cases outside of China when considering the global risk. He said Japan appears to be “on the cusp of an outbreak” with 59 confirmed cases and one death so far, he said on CNBC’S “Squawk Box.”

“If you start to see this become an epidemic in other nations ... that’s going to be extremely worrisome that we’re not going to control this globally,” Gottlieb said.

-----------------------------

Singapore's prime minister Lee Hsien Loong has said the new coronavirus is probably already circulating in the population of his country, and warned that if proven, it may require a new strategy by health authorities currently trying to stop it spreading.

"If the virus is widespread it is futile to try to trace every contact, Lee said in a video posted to his Facebook channel. "If we still hospitalize and isolate every suspect case our hospitals will be overwhelmed."

----------------------------
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 02:51:41 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

gerontocrat

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #985 on: February 18, 2020, 03:40:17 PM »
The Financial Markets?

Has Apple "blown the gaff" with its warning on production and sales?

Has the loathed, baleful spectre of fear re-entered the marketplace?

Is greed slinking away (muttering under his breath "open the factories, open the shops, it's only 2.5% fatal, and mostly only the old and the already poorly who get wacked")?

Crude down $1+, gold up nearly 10 bucks. as at 9.30 a.m. EST
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #986 on: February 18, 2020, 05:08:51 PM »
"Sokath, his eyes uncovered!"...

---------------------------------

Economists Warn Coronavirus Risk Far Worse Than Realized
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-global-economic-risk-stock-market-china-24da74a5-c824-4c79-a8c7-220213d28824.html

Worries are growing that the economic impact from the novel coronavirus outbreak will be worse than expected and that markets are being too complacent in factoring it in as a risk.

What's happening: The number of confirmed cases has already far outpaced expectations and even those reports are being viewed through a lens of suspicion that the Chinese government is underreporting the figures.

Yet, U.S. stock indexes have continued to hit all-time highs, bond spreads remain compressed, and even some Asian bourses have recouped losses that followed the initial coronavirus headlines.

Driving the news: Of the 364 companies that have held Q4 earnings calls, 138 cited the term “coronavirus” during the call, and about 25% of those included some impact from the coronavirus or modified guidance due to the virus, according to FactSet. Apple was the latest, saying Monday it would not meet quarterly revenue expectations due to limited iPhone production and Chinese demand.

What they're saying:

Quote
"This will eventually end badly. I have never in my career seen anything as crazy as what’s going on right now," ... "The cognitive dissonance in the credit market is stunning."

- Scott Minerd, Global CIO of Guggenheim Investments

He's not alone: "The ramp up in China will take much longer than many expect because of the need to prevent a secondary flare up in contagion," Diane Swonk, chief economist at Grant Thornton, said on Twitter.

Details: Minerd predicts that the "impact of all this on corporate profits and free cash flow will be dramatic," warning that China's first quarter GDP could fall as low as -6% annualized in the first quarter and oil could drop to $25 a barrel.

The bottom line: "We are either moving into a completely new paradigm, or the speculative energy in the market is incredibly out of control," Minerd says.

"I think it is the latter. I have said before that we have entered the silly season, but I stand corrected. We are in the ludicrous season."

--------------------------------------
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 05:15:21 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #987 on: February 18, 2020, 05:18:41 PM »
Coronavirus Up to 20 Times More Likely Than SARS to Bind to Human Cells, Study Suggests
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051124/coronavirus-20-times-more-likely-sars-bind-human-cells-study

The deadly new coronavirus is up to 20 times more likely to bind to human cell receptors and cause infection than severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars), a new study by researchers at the University of Texas at Austin has found.

The novel coronavirus and Sars share the same functional host-cell receptor, called angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2).

The report, published on the website bioRxiv on Saturday, said the new coronavirus had around 10 to 20-fold higher affinity – the degree to which a substance tends to combine with another – for human ACE2 compared with Sars.

Quote
... “Compared with SARS-CoV, 2019-nCoV appears to be more readily transmitted from human to human,” ... “The high affinity of 2019-nCoV S for human ACE2 may contribute to the apparent ease with which 2019-nCoV can spread from human to human.”

The new study found that although the novel coronavirus’ receptor-binding domain (RBD) had a relatively similar structure to that of Sars, it did not have appreciable binding to three published Sars RBD-specific monoclonal antibodies (mAbs), which are copies of one type of antibody used to neutralise pathogens.

The researchers said this suggested antibody cross-reactivity – the extent to which different antigens appear similar to the immune system – may be limited between the two virus RBDs, meaning Sars-directed mAbs will not necessarily work against the new virus.

Cryo-EM Structure of the 2019-nCoV Spike in the Prefusion Conformation
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.11.944462v1.full

Quote
... Recent reports demonstrating that 2019-nCoV S and SARS-CoV S share the same functional host-cell receptor—angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) (21, 24-26)—prompted us to quantify the kinetics mediating this interaction via surface plasmon resonance (SPR). Surprisingly, ACE2 bound to 2019-nCoV S ectodomain with ∼15 nM affinity, which is approximately 10- to 20-fold higher affinity than ACE2 binding to SARS-CoV S (Figure 3A, Supplementary Figure 7) (14). We also formed a complex of ACE2 bound to the 2019-nCoV S ectodomain and observed it by negative-stain EM, where it strongly resembled the complex formed between SARS-CoV S and ACE2, which has been observed at high-resolution by cryo-EM (Figure 3B) (14, 27). The high affinity of 2019-nCoV S for human ACE2 may contribute to the apparent ease with which 2019-nCoV can spread from human-to-human(1), however additional studies are needed to investigate this possibility.



https://www.biorxiv.org/search/SARS-CoV%252B%252B2019-nCoV%20numresults%3A75%20sort%3Arelevance-rank

--------------------------------

China Reports 1,300 More Coronavirus Cases Among Medical Workers
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051207/china-reports-1300-more-coronavirus-cases-among-medical-workers

The risk of the deadly coronavirus to China’s frontline health staff is in sharp focus with health authorities announcing that 1,303 more medical workers had been diagnosed with or were suspected of having the disease.

The Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said on Monday that by February 11 there were more than 3,000 coronavirus cases among medical workers, 1,716 of whom had tested positive and showed symptoms.

Hours after the new numbers were released, authorities announced that Liu Zhiming, head of Wuchang Hospital in Wuhan, the epicentre of the outbreak in central China, died aged 50.

Another Wuhan doctor says she was silenced after raising concerns about human-to-human transmission
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

gerontocrat

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #988 on: February 18, 2020, 06:25:13 PM »
FEAR strengthens - GOLD up 20 bucks to over $1600 oz.

Economics 1.01 - Free Markets work the best as knowledge of the market conditions is available to all.
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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #989 on: February 18, 2020, 06:58:44 PM »
This is BS, Gray-Wolf.

It does not even deserve the FUD label. It's straight BS out of the of a rotten mind.

I think you shouldn't share such stuff.
Everyone who can must self-isolate.

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #990 on: February 18, 2020, 07:03:57 PM »
FEAR strengthens - GOLD up 20 bucks to over $1600 oz.

Economics 1.01 - Free Markets work the best as knowledge of the market conditions is available to all.

No wonder, Japan's economy contracted more than 6 % in the last quarter of 2019. That's before the corona virus.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #991 on: February 18, 2020, 07:14:43 PM »
Coronavirus ‘lab leakage’ rumors spreading
https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/coronavirus-lab-leakage-rumors-spreading/
Quote
Ebright said the coronavirus was a cousin of one found in bats captured by the institute in caves in the southwestern province of Yunnan in 2003, and that samples had been kept in the Wuhan lab since 2013.
Also, a paper that appeared in the prestigious medical journal The Lancet at the end of last month has lent credibility to speculation about the origins of the virus. The paper quoted seven doctors at Wuhan’s Jinyintan Hospital as saying that the first patient admitted on December 1 had “never been to the wet market,” nor had there been any epidemiological link between the first patient and subsequent infection cases, based on the data from the first 41 patients treated there.
Furthermore, a note from the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology is seen as a tacit admission that some kind of incident may have occurred at the Wuhan lab.

You know, people, this is probably a natural mutation and species jump. Probably.
But China has a history of disinformation, and is reluctant to allow outsiders in Hubei. It is a known liar acting like it is lying. And they have the technology to create such a virus. They have a motive...they are a rising superpower. And the origin was right at their top virus lab.
And in the Thirties, if we make it, we will have to wonder about biohackers as well when this happens again.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Alexander555

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #992 on: February 18, 2020, 07:15:43 PM »

vox_mundi

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #993 on: February 18, 2020, 07:16:10 PM »
Culling the Herd
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/18/c_138796378.htm

Officials in Hubei province, the centre of the coronavirus outbreak, will adopt more thorough and forceful measures to find patients with fever, state media reported today.

Records of all fever patients who have visited a doctor since 20 January will be checked, as well as the records of those who have bought over-the-counter cough and fever medications in shops and online, Xinhua reported.

People will get health check ups and, if necessary, be placed in quarantine or hospitalised, the report added, citing a notice from the province’s epidemic control headquarters.

Buyers of cough and fever medications are required to show ID cards for real-name registration.

All neighborhoods in cities and rural villages will carry out door-to-door visits to look for fever patients, with results reported to the headquarters daily, said the notice.

----------------------------

All-Seeing AI: Chinese Government Using Color-Coded QR Codes to Track Citizens Amid  Coronavirus Outbreak
https://www.insider.com/coronavirus-spread-chinese-government-tracks-with-color-coded-qr-codes-2020-2?amp

The Chinese government, in collaboration with tech giants Alibaba Group Holding Ltd and Tencent Holdings Ltd, is implementing a color-based coding system to track the health of individuals.

On Wednesday, the payment app Alipay launched a feature that assigns residents of Hangzhou a colored QR code representing their health status. The company plans to expand the feature nationwide.

Users fill out an online report with an ID number, their recent travel history, and any possible symptoms of an illness. After completing the form, they are issued colored QR codes on their phones.

The resulting QR codes determine how much contact residents are allowed with the general public.

Those with red codes are required to remain in quarantine for 14 days — and to use the Alibaba-run chat app DingTalk to provide frequent updates on their health. Residents with yellow codes are instructed to stay indoors seven days. Those issued green codes are free to move about as they please.

... Two residents reported to Reuters that they have been required to show their QR codes to enter their apartment complexes and the local supermarket.

The increasingly restrictive measures to contain the spread of the virus continue to expand; the Tencent Holdings Ltd-owned messaging app WeChat has introduced a QR code tracking feature.



------------------------------

The Dark Side of Data
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615199/coronavirus-china-app-close-contact-surveillance-covid-19-technology/amp/

... Being marked as potentially contagious (whether accurately or not) could have a big effect because of the social reaction to disease in China, says Christos Lynteris, an anthropologist and epidemic expert who has done research in the country. Though all infectious disease creates an element of a moral panic, the stigma in China is also connected with the concept of “face,” which is similar to honor and moral standing. The stigma of associating with a contagious person is intense, and stigma is contagious in China in a way that’s not quite the case in the West.

That means the app is likely to create a situation where people preemptively avoid others to avoid being implicated in a “loss of face chain-reaction," Lynteris says. While this isolation could actually help prevent coronavirus from spreading, it’s a socially punishing way to do so. Lynteris has even considered whether this is part of the app’s design: “It’s a strange thing which makes me think, is stigmatization simply a by-product—or is it what the application relies upon in the first place?”

The close-contact app is fundamentally a data-gathering enterprise. If someone is marked as possibly contagious, the government has that person’s information down to their ID number. Whether that’s a good thing depends, in part, on the trust someone has in Chinese institutions.

Residents of Wuhan, the central Chinese city at the epicenter of the outbreak, are already treated as pariahs in China itself. The authorities have hunted people from the city, encouraging citizens to inform on each other and offering bounties, with prejudice becoming so acute that even government officials called for people to show more understanding. An app that holds such detailed information, combined with what Lynteris calls the long history of public shaming in China—such as “struggle sessions” that publicly humiliate a target, or meetings in which citizens accuse each other of wrongdoing—could turn negative quickly.

With social media now acting as China’s town square, there is no more effective place to do this, he explains.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Gray-Wolf

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #994 on: February 18, 2020, 07:17:58 PM »
This is BS, Gray-Wolf.

It does not even deserve the FUD label. It's straight BS out of the of a rotten mind.

I think you shouldn't share such stuff.

Done and done!

Glad I asked!
KOYAANISQATSI

ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
 
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS

blumenkraft

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #995 on: February 18, 2020, 07:31:20 PM »
Thanks, Wolf! :)
Everyone who can must self-isolate.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #996 on: February 18, 2020, 08:39:10 PM »
“The Tokyo Metropolitan Government says the virus may be spreading in the capital, as people not at the party -- including an office worker and a chauffeur -- were also confirmed infected, and is calling for measures to prevent transmission. It provided information on the route of infection among party attendees at a Feb. 16 press conference.

The New Year's party was held on Jan. 18 by a branch of a private taxi union based in Tokyo's Jonan area, and was attended by about 70 taxi drivers and their families who dined on the boat. However, the windows were shut due to heavy rain, creating a confined space with insufficient ventilation -- the kind of environment where disease spreads more easily.”



https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200217/p2a/00m/0na/012000c#cxrecs_s

Taxi’s , boats, hospitals, buses and shared meals in confined spaces are all implicated in viral spread of Covid-19.  Public transportation is going to be a dangerous way to get around as the virus spreads.
I am beginning to question why medical staff aren’t using full face ventilators or positive airflow suits?
Way to many medical workers getting sick. Their masks aren’t working IMO. The WHO needs to identify the weaknesses in medical staff protective gear. I would question the efficacy of all masks even r-95.

Shared Humanity

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #997 on: February 18, 2020, 08:42:06 PM »
Coronavirus ‘lab leakage’ rumors spreading
https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/coronavirus-lab-leakage-rumors-spreading/
Quote
Ebright said the coronavirus was a cousin of one found in bats captured by the institute in caves in the southwestern province of Yunnan in 2003, and that samples had been kept in the Wuhan lab since 2013.
Also, a paper that appeared in the prestigious medical journal The Lancet at the end of last month has lent credibility to speculation about the origins of the virus. The paper quoted seven doctors at Wuhan’s Jinyintan Hospital as saying that the first patient admitted on December 1 had “never been to the wet market,” nor had there been any epidemiological link between the first patient and subsequent infection cases, based on the data from the first 41 patients treated there.
Furthermore, a note from the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology is seen as a tacit admission that some kind of incident may have occurred at the Wuhan lab.

You know, people, this is probably a natural mutation and species jump. Probably.
But China has a history of disinformation, and is reluctant to allow outsiders in Hubei. It is a known liar acting like it is lying. And they have the technology to create such a virus. They have a motive...they are a rising superpower. And the origin was right at their top virus lab.
And in the Thirties, if we make it, we will have to wonder about biohackers as well when this happens again.

Please stop posting this stuff.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #998 on: February 18, 2020, 08:44:33 PM »
OK, but that makes no difference one way or another.
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Chinese coronavirus
« Reply #999 on: February 18, 2020, 08:59:17 PM »
Tom, OK then if it makes no difference please take the bio lab conspiracy stuff somewhere else.

I do read peak prosperity , tverberg and other sites also but the advantage of this site is the track record of the contributors. They try very hard to back up their positions/ opinions with credible sources.
There are some contributors to those other sites that also have a good track record but there is a lot of BS to sort through . The problem with bio-lab stuff is that it is never transparent , ever.