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Author Topic: Biomass issues  (Read 7416 times)

El Cid

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #100 on: October 15, 2020, 09:46:08 AM »
I am starting to see all over the "developed world" that city dwellers cry out every time even asingle tree is cut down - no matter what. I think we need to do real forestry, agroforestry, etc, and that always includes felling trees. That is not a sin in itself. We always need to put these things into context, so I agree with Neil.

Iain

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2020, 10:42:51 AM »
“I still don't understand how the stuff picked up from the forest floor (not cutting down trees) is the major source of biomass use in the U.K. or anywhere else.”

The vast majority of woodland in the UK is commercial. Plant, grow for 50-70 years, harvest, repeat.

Spruce are planted at 2m spacing, as they grow they self – prune – the lower branches die off, the upper ones seek the light. At c. 10 years and 20 years they are thinned – take out the weak, forked, crooked. Some trunks go for paper making, brashings for biomass.

Structural timber must be straight and largely knot free, so that’s from the outside, near the base, but not the sapwood.

When the mature tree is harvested, the straight and knot free is structural. The knotty for doors, furniture (e.g. your IKEA), chipboard, OSB etc.

The rest, c. 20% is biomass, a by product with no other commercial use.

Commercial dense planting is good for timber production and CO2 sequestration, not so good for flora and fauna.

These days the planting is much more sensitive. I have blocks of dense Sitka, but also areas of broadleaves which have a much longer rotation, c. 100-150 years, a variety of ages – the mature are much less dense, so grass grows and deer graze. I have no watercourses but they are usually broadleaves too, to reduce acidity, insect habitat to benefit fish etc.

"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

nanning

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #102 on: October 15, 2020, 11:32:15 AM »
You seem to keep evading the question.
Can I conclude that the majority of biomass used is NOT from the forest floor, but it is from cutting trees down?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

interstitial

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #103 on: October 15, 2020, 12:21:57 PM »
around here paper making uses a ridiculously fast growing genetically modified species of tree that is mature in about 7-8 years after planting the seedling. They probably use too much fertilizer as well.

nanning

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #104 on: October 15, 2020, 12:52:04 PM »
^
Plants are also lifeforms.
Genetically 'engineered' (CRISPR tech taken from.. living nature); non-natural habitat; artificial fertilizer (chemicals); broken ecosystem; seeds planted by humans; no natural selection; no natural death...  Utter exploitation of defenseless lifeforms. Not killed for food either. For technology. What does being alive mean? What does life itself mean? Humans ask themselves these questions whilst this is their behaviour. Good luck in finding answers to your 'life' questions.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Iain

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #105 on: October 15, 2020, 12:53:21 PM »
“You seem to keep evading the question.”

My intent was to expand on, not evade. My 1st statements on this thread were:

“Much of the biomass used in the UK is forestry residue - the small branches and tops which are of no use in construction.

They would have turned to CO2 anyway, rotting on the forest floor.”

That’s still true. Note mention of construction <timber> these are not windthrow trees (though I do use them myself as firewood)

The harvester (machine) cuts and snedds the tree and stacks the good logs
The brash mat is left in place to prevent soil compaction <edit: the machines drive over the brash mat>
The forwarder machine, forwards, as in takes to, the good logs to the roadside
The brashings are later gathered, bound and and forwarded. In my case the brashings were left to get back the N, P, K and Mg

“Can I conclude that the majority of biomass used is NOT from the forest floor”
It IS on the forest floor

“NOT from the forest floor, but it is from cutting trees down?”
It IS from cutting trees down, the main purpose is to get the timber, Biomas is a byproduct only. (Sandbag implied the sole purpose was for biomas, exaggerating the area required to be felled by c. 5 times)

The reason the tree was planted in the 1st place was to get timber.

The exception is short rotation coppice , e.g. willow where the purpose is biomass only.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 01:00:55 PM by Iain »
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2020, 01:01:21 PM »
You seem to keep evading the question.
Can I conclude that the majority of biomass used is NOT from the forest floor, but it is from cutting trees down?
US Washington state
around 20% of the tree is left behind from logging. This includes the stump and branches. around here they pour diesel on it and burn it. Its messed up.
Depending on the mill up to 15% can end up as sawdust. Some burn it for the kiln or electricity others sell it.
Land taxes on forest land are much cheaper you must replant within 18 months for it to remain forest land. Calling it a forest isn't really accurate though its all monoculture. Only one species planted in each section. Only fast growing trees are planted no hardwoods. It resembles a wheat field more than an ecosystem. Less than 4% of the old growth is still around.

wili

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #107 on: October 15, 2020, 05:17:09 PM »
"What does life itself mean? "

Individuals and cultures can and have come up with various answers (and non-answers) to this.

But the most powerful culture on the planet--industrialism--has definitely decided that the purpose of life is to be transformed into "products" (and services, and energy...) which fairly quickly become waste, often toxic...and into the profits that can be derived from said products (while pushing off to others the expenses and lethal consequences of the waste from the products and of the decimated ecosystems from which they were extracted).

Similar to the saying--you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you.

You may not know the meaning of life, but industry definitely has decided what the meaning of your life is to them, and really the meaning of all life
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Ranman99

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Re: Biomass issues
« Reply #108 on: October 16, 2020, 05:34:10 AM »
Yes we all popped up on this island, oribitting a nuclear disaster in a deep freeze. Survivor psych ward island where everything is food ;-)

Some of the species wear plants and other animals. Not just these hominids ;-)

Entertaining. Has the full range of emotions!!

Kind of makes you want to get naked in front of a roaring bonfire and make vows to the universe with the moon and the stars as your witness ;-)

Better than playing video games. I think  :P 8)

Randy Fitton