Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Lessons from COVID-19  (Read 11021 times)

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17323
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 793
  • Likes Given: 289
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #300 on: May 14, 2020, 02:07:39 PM »
Quote
XKCD Comic (@xkcdComic)5/13/20, 6:21 PM
Common Cold xkcd.com/2306/ m.xkcd.com/2306/

Alt/title text: "Not even metapneumovirus, easily the common cold virus with the coolest name, warrants our sympathy. Colds suck. No mercy."
https://twitter.com/xkcdcomic/status/1260696791726448641
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

gerontocrat

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8102
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2819
  • Likes Given: 24
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #301 on: May 15, 2020, 09:42:39 PM »
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2865
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 540
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #302 on: May 21, 2020, 09:28:04 PM »
Will Everything Be Different Now?
https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2020/05/20/will-everything-be-different-now/
Quote
I have a slightly different idea.  To prepare for the next unpredictable crisis, perhaps we should do what we can to make sure that nearly every business and person in the country has a three-month buffer to subsist on if the economy should come to a complete standstill again.

No more being highly leveraged, living on edge.  No being steeped in debt, so that even a week’s pause in business means financial ruin.   The top 85 percent of the economy should be able to survive for three months on savings, with no need for multi-trillion-dollar government bail outs, hand-outs, or loans.  Each person and business could be encouraged to think of being prepared in this way as his or her civic duty.

Civic duty?  Who thinks that way?  We should.  Too many people don’t.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17323
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 793
  • Likes Given: 289
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #303 on: May 22, 2020, 12:37:57 AM »
How to memorably illustrate two-meter social distancing.

Evan Hadfield on Twitter: "The Canadian metric system”
https://mobile.twitter.com/evan_hadfield/status/1262795831444471809
And others...   More at the link.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7598
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 941
  • Likes Given: 501
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #304 on: May 22, 2020, 10:18:15 PM »
CJ Hopkins at Consent Factory:

Quote
Brave New Normal (Part 2)



(...)

In order to understand how this works, imagine for a moment that you’re one of these people who are normally skeptical of the government and the media, and that you consider yourself an anti-authoritarian, or at least a friend of the working classes, and now you are beginning to realize that there is no Alien-Terrorist-Death-Flu (just as there were no “WMDs,” no “Russian hackers,” no “pee-tape,” etc.), and so it dawns on you that you’ve been behaving like a hysterical, brainwashed, fascist minion of the very establishment you supposedly oppose … or at the very least like an abject coward.

Imagine how you might feel right now.

You would probably feel pretty foolish, right? And more than a little ashamed of yourself. So … OK, what would you do about that? Well, you would have a couple of options.

Option Number One would be admit what you did, apologize to whomever you have to, and try like hell not to do it again. Not many people are going to choose this option.

Most people are going to choose Option Number Two, which is to desperately try to deny what they did, or to desperately rationalize what they did (and in many cases are still actively doing). Now, this is not as easy at it sounds, because doing that means they will have to continue to believe (or at least pretend to believe) that there is an Alien-Terrorist-Death-Flu which is going to kill hundreds of millions of people the moment we stop locking everyone down, and forcing them to “social distance,” and so on. They will have to continue to pretend to believe that this Alien-Terrorist-Death-Flu exists, even though they know it doesn’t.

And this is where that Orwellian “doublethink” comes in. People (i.e., these “anti-authoritarians,” not to mention the majority of the “normal” public) are not going to want to face the fact that they’ve been behaving like a bunch of fascists (or cowards) for no justifiable reason whatsoever. So, what they are going to do instead is desperately pretend that their behavior was justified and that the propaganda they have been swallowing, and regurgitating, was not propaganda, but rather, “the Truth.”

In other words, in order to avoid their shame, they are going to do everything in their power to reify the official narrative and delegitimize anyone attempting to expose it as the fiction that it is. They are going to join in with the corporate media that are calling us “extremists,” “conspiracy theorists,” “anti-vaxxers,” and other such epithets. They’re going to accuse those of us on the Left of aligning with “far-Right Republican militias,” and “Boogaloo accelerationists,” and of being members of the Russian-backed “Querfront,” and assorted other horrible things meant to scare errant leftists into line.

Above all, they are going to continue to insist, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that we are “under attack” by a “killer virus” which could “strike again at any time,” and so we have to maintain at least some level of totalitarianism and paranoia, or else … well, you know, the terrorists win.

It is this reification of the official narrative by those too ashamed to admit what they did (and try to determine why they did it), and not the narrative or the propaganda itself, that will eventually establish the “Brave New Normal” as “reality” (assuming the process works as smoothly as it did with the “War on Terror,” the “War on Populism,” and the “Cold War” narratives). The facts, the data, the “science” won’t matter. Reality is consensus reality … and a new consensus is being formed at the moment.

There is still a chance (right now, not months from now) for these people (some of whom are rather influential) to stand up and say, “Whoops! I screwed up and went all Nazi there for a bit.” But I seriously doubt that is going to happen.

It’s much more likely that the Brave New Normal (or some intermittent, scaled-down version of it) will gradually become our new reality. People will get used to being occasionally “locked down,” and being ordered to wear masks, and not to touch each other, and to standing in designated circles and boxes, like they got used to the “anti-Terrorism measures,” and believing that Trump is a “Russian asset.” The coming economic depression will be blamed on the Alien-Terrorist-Death-Flu, rather than on the lockdown that caused it. Millions of people will be condemned to extreme poverty, or debt-enslaved for the rest of their lives, but they’ll be too busy trying to survive to mount any kind of broad resistance.

The children, of course, won’t know any better. They will grow up with their “isolation boxes,” and “protective barriers,” and “contact tracing,” and they will live in constant low-grade fear of another killer virus, or terrorist attack, or Russian-backed white supremacist uprising, or whatever boogeyman might next appear to menace the global capitalist empire, which, it goes without saying, will be just fine.

(...)
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 956
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #305 on: May 23, 2020, 09:53:38 AM »
Interesting article from CJ Hopkins, part 1 is also interesting, but I can't put all the pieces together.

What bothers me most is that he says that lockdowns are there to reinforce the grip of the powerful on society, but Trump is an anti-lockdown.

I'm not sure that the picture is so easy to take, but I agree with the fact that governments have difficulties to recognize that they could have been wrong. When you start with "it's a flu", make a lockdown, try wide testing but don't find many cases so you stop doing it - but people willing to be tested still can't excepted if they have the right symptoms, than require masks without providing precises rules so that the police can decide if you're right or wrong, do some tracking without giving yourself the capacity to do it (restaurants will open soon, but they won't have to keep a track of who was there - don't need a name, just a phone number)... somehow it looks like they recommend what they have the capacity to offer... some steps must have been wrong, but if you can't discuss it, than you loose your credibility, people stop following your advises, an your policies - even the good ones - can only be implemented with the help of the police.

Where I live, people don't inform the Police when neighbors don't respect the rules, even Policemen living here don't do it, but at work, policemen can be annoying, I guess they need to show some results.

What worries me most is that science doesn't seem to be an issue. Why should airlines not be obliged to keep free seats, but restaurants have to ? Why were supermarket allowed to open the hobby section while hobby shops, bookstores... had to stay closed. Why do we save and open first companies that are worsening AGW ? If you can sit for two hours in a plane, why can't you in a movie-theater ? Why are kids playing together on the street, but not in school ? Cases are really very low now, being closer to one-another with masks outside of a building seems to be relatively safe, so what's the issue ? Why is it not possible to provide general guidelines, why is it not possible to explain what is safe and what is not ? Why is it not possible if some areas have no cases ? I feel that if people have to hide in order to meet makes it more dangerous, you can't open the window if you are having fun with friends, you would hear it from the outside. There is also an extra stupid question, why do some people feel that they are so important that they go to work with fever ?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 09:58:43 AM by etienne »

Archimid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2960
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 655
  • Likes Given: 194
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #306 on: May 23, 2020, 10:52:32 AM »
Quote
What bothers me most is that he says that lockdowns are there to reinforce the grip of the powerful on society, but Trump is an anti-lockdown.

I think this phenomenon is explained by the following meme:



If leaders act swiftly and decisively against epidemics, nothing happens. The leaders are successful but the measures are seen as draconian and unnecessary, precisely because nothing happened. A victory against the virus is defeat at the polls.

If leaders do not act swiftly and mass casualty events happen, then they can act because people get terrified and demand action.

Trump, Musk, and other influencers are betting the sacrifice of health care workers will succeed, so they are attempting to gain "credibility" on the backs of their sacrifice. They know one day in the not too distant future this will be over, like every pandemic before this one. Regardless of the body count, THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

At that point, they will say "see, I told you so" and most people will want to believe them regardless of the body count. Those who worked the front lines will be muzzled and forgotten. Those with dead families know but mourning is weird. Mourning is a very easy process to manipulate by fake "I told you so".

Is their bet a good one? Yes it is. We will sacrifice thousands of people and many healthcare workers will die, but this will eventually be over and we will want to forget it. Trump, Musk and other influencers will be there to reap the rewards while causing so much death.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 956
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #307 on: May 23, 2020, 05:50:30 PM »
Good article in Time about College graduating young adults in 2020
https://time.com/5839765/college-graduation-2020/
Quote
How COVID-19 Will Shape the Class of 2020 For the Rest of Their Lives
Elissa DeFranceschi, Drexel University Class of 2020, with her boyfriend in Philadelphia Elissa DeFranceschi, Drexel University Class of 2020, with her boyfriend in Philadelphia
Hannah Beier
By Charlotte Alter | Photographs by Hannah Beier
May 21, 2020 6:57 AM EDT

They call it commencement because it’s supposed to be a new beginning.

College graduation is one of life’s last clean transitions, a final passage from adolescence to adulthood that is predictable in ways other transitions rarely are. Relationships end with breakups or death, jobs often end with quitting or firing, but college is one of the only things in life that ends with a fresh start. Except when it doesn’t.

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 956
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #308 on: May 25, 2020, 10:53:57 PM »
If the way lockdown were organised where quite similar, the opening is quite different and much more politically oriented. Movie-theaters, air travel and pubs open before playgrounds in Luxembourg, it's because social distancing is quite difficult between kids.

NeilT

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 171
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #309 on: May 26, 2020, 12:17:00 AM »
If leaders act swiftly and decisively against epidemics, nothing happens. The leaders are successful but the measures are seen as draconian and unnecessary, precisely because nothing happened. A victory against the virus is defeat at the polls.

If leaders do not act swiftly and mass casualty events happen, then they can act because people get terrified and demand action.

I would put that slightly differently.  I would say that once terrified, they will accept action which could not have been contemplated before.

The first part is not supposition. It has a clear history and very recently.

In the years following Y2K I was challenged many times that "we spent all that money and nothing happened", therefore it was clearly a fraud.

With this mindset we are doomed anyway. There was enough clear evidence that Y2K existed. There was never going to be 100% success and that proved to be true.  However there were so few issues that it missed the notice of the masses.

Let's face facts, the general body of public don't want to pay to fix their problems, they want to pay people to tell them their problem is going away.

That is not a subtle difference although it might sound similar.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Archimid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2960
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 655
  • Likes Given: 194
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #310 on: May 27, 2020, 11:04:25 AM »
Quote
I would put that slightly differently.  I would say that once terrified, they will accept action which could not have been contemplated before.

Correct. Wuhan/Iran/Italy hospitals and morgues overwhelmed, "it's just a flu", keep shopping.
NYC hospitals and morgues overwhelmed, its a pandemic, close everything.

 The same thing will happen with climate change. With both, there are points of no return.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7598
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 941
  • Likes Given: 501
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #311 on: May 27, 2020, 01:56:43 PM »
One parallel between AGW and SARS-CoV-19 is the focus on adaptation rather than mitigation. Yesterday in bed, I thought about how much better it would be to spend those billions of dollars/euros for vaccine research on population health and resilience (sustainable agriculture, etc). But the system decides otherwise.

A population healthy in body and mind can prevent and cope with most things, especially pandemics. But the system wants sick, dependent people that are easily frightened by death.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

bluice

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 311
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 119
  • Likes Given: 285
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #312 on: May 27, 2020, 03:24:08 PM »
Neven, a healthy diet, sustainable agriculture and functional well resourced health care system are all important goals. However Covid-19 is caused by a virus, not the lack of such things. We can eat healthy and exercise all we want but Covid would still infect and kill people.

If/when vaccine is available we can start to vaccinate risk groups (=old people) which will immediately reduce mortality and remove pressure from health care. Reduced mortality will allow governments to lift restrictions. Most importantly it will remove fear and increase confidence and thus enable the economy to recover.  I think it's fair to say that the worst Covid-19 impact is economical.

I don't believe for a second there is a "system" wanting this or that. Truth is much scarier. World is a web of conflicting interests pulling each way and major issues are mitigated simply because something must be done when they hit the fan. To prevent pandemics (or a catastrophic climate change) requires preemptive action, which is hard. Unfortunately some of the most powerful countries are utterly inept even to mitigate the problem.

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 956
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #313 on: May 28, 2020, 07:15:22 PM »
Well, I think I agree with Neven. If we had been reasonable, hadn't put the older generation in retirement home, the younger generation in nursery, so that both parents can work like crazy, I think we would have been able to handle much better this pandemic.
Instead of going toward a more sustainable way of life, I feel that we are running toward a major crash. Well, good friends are getting good contracts from the state.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 07:37:25 PM by etienne »

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7598
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 941
  • Likes Given: 501
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #314 on: May 29, 2020, 12:34:01 PM »
Neven, a healthy diet, sustainable agriculture and functional well resourced health care system are all important goals. However Covid-19 is caused by a virus, not the lack of such things.

Come on, bluice. The impact a virus can have is in large part determined by factors like general population health, demographics, etc. If your population has been systematically weakened for decades through profitable addictions, overprocessing of food and unsustainable soil-destroying agriculture, it becomes much easier for a virus - which is a natural occurrence - to wreak havoc and (help) induce panics that then cause further havoc.

Quote
We can eat healthy and exercise all we want but Covid would still infect and kill people.

Yes, that's what diseases tend to do. We would do well to accept that instead of declaring a war on death.

Quote
If/when vaccine is available we can start to vaccinate risk groups (=old people) which will immediately reduce mortality and remove pressure from health care. Reduced mortality will allow governments to lift restrictions. Most importantly it will remove fear and increase confidence and thus enable the economy to recover.  I think it's fair to say that the worst Covid-19 impact is economical.

To me, focussing on a vaccine is misplaced, if only because of the massive conflict of interest due to industry pressures. But I agree that it will bring psychological relief, now that we're mired in this overhyped situation.

Quote
I don't believe for a second there is a "system" wanting this or that. Truth is much scarier. World is a web of conflicting interests pulling each way and major issues are mitigated simply because something must be done when they hit the fan. To prevent pandemics (or a catastrophic climate change) requires preemptive action, which is hard. Unfortunately some of the most powerful countries are utterly inept even to mitigate the problem.

Of course they are inept, as they have been made inept, and are now willfully inept. Because there is a system that wants something, namely the further growth and further concentration of concentrated wealth. Everything that has to do with this SARS-CoV-2 crisis (its coming about, its impact, the reaction to it, the consequences) has been directly caused or indirectly influenced by this system. The main reason it is hard to prevent these things - for instance, by making populations more healthy physically and mentally, so they become more independent - is because it would be bad for concentrated wealth.

Hence the castrating expression: How ya gonna pay fer it (if you need to pay me first)?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

blumenkraft

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3911
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1362
  • Likes Given: 2139
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #315 on: May 29, 2020, 12:57:45 PM »
declaring a war on death.

Try to hold your breath for 5 minutes.

The moment your reflexes kick in and make you breathe, that's the war on death every living thing is declaring.
CEO of bitcoin & Antifa

bluice

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 311
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 119
  • Likes Given: 285
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #316 on: May 29, 2020, 01:07:30 PM »

Come on, bluice. The impact a virus can have is in large part determined by factors like general population health, demographics, etc. If your population has been systematically weakened for decades through profitable addictions, overprocessing of food and unsustainable soil-destroying agriculture, it becomes much easier for a virus - which is a natural occurrence - to wreak havoc and (help) induce panics that then cause further havoc.

Correct, but that is a massive if. When was the point in time people were healthier and more resistant to disease than nowadays? With the exception of the US with its disastrous health care industry people are living longer than ever. In fact we are panicking because we are so used to NOT dying to a contagious disease. Early/mid 20th century people still regularly died to small pox, diphteria, measles, TB etc. etc.

I do agree the comparison between present day and last century is a bit unfair. It's not either-or. We could have used all our medical knowledge and technology AND better sustainable general health to build a more resilient society.

Of course they are inept, as they have been made inept, and are now willfully inept. Because there is a system that wants something, namely the further growth and further concentration of concentrated wealth. Everything that has to do with this SARS-CoV-2 crisis (its coming about, its impact, the reaction to it, the consequences) has been directly caused or indirectly influenced by this system. The main reason it is hard to prevent these things - for instance, by making populations more healthy physically and mentally, so they become more independent - is because it would be bad for concentrated wealth.

Hence the castrating expression: How ya gonna pay fer it (if you need to pay me first)?
There obviously is a part of our society whether you call it 1% or The Concentrated Wealth or whatever that is out of touch with the realities of the rest of us. No question about it.

I don't like treating them as a one single entity however as it's too obvious people like Soros, Putin, Trump, Gates or Murdoch are all part of this establishment but have nevertheless completely different and conflicting interests. To group them all as one running a secretive system is too close to conspiracy theory or marxist class war IMO. It's more like a feudal society or 19th century great power game where the Powerful fight each other for glory and the small people get trampled by their war machines. A history repeating.

gerontocrat

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8102
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2819
  • Likes Given: 24
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #317 on: May 29, 2020, 05:08:23 PM »
An Old Lesson re-learnt - To survive The Empire must give The Peepul their Bread & Circuses.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/29/take-that-covid-19-you-cant-stop-the-compulsory-emotional-juggernaut-that-is-footy
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7598
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 941
  • Likes Given: 501
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #318 on: May 31, 2020, 04:04:10 PM »
There obviously is a part of our society whether you call it 1% or The Concentrated Wealth or whatever that is out of touch with the realities of the rest of us. No question about it.

I don't like treating them as a one single entity however as it's too obvious people like Soros, Putin, Trump, Gates or Murdoch are all part of this establishment but have nevertheless completely different and conflicting interests. To group them all as one running a secretive system is too close to conspiracy theory or marxist class war IMO. It's more like a feudal society or 19th century great power game where the Powerful fight each other for glory and the small people get trampled by their war machines. A history repeating.

There are a handful of pundits, the most known among them being Anand Ghiridaradas, who discuss the problem of concentrated wealth, but almost all of them talk about 'the rich', being out of touch, etc. Last year or so, Joe Biden stated that the rich shouldn't be demonised and I agreed with him. Of course, he said it because he is a loyal servant of the rich, but I still agreed with him.

Because 'the rich' aren't the problem. The problem is their wealth. We think that people are in control of everything, but actually it's the wealth that is in control. The rich are just temporary stewards. It doesn't matter if they are out of touch or not, they are the servants of their wealth. Their wealth owns them.

And what their wealth wants, is to get bigger and eat up the wealth of other servants. It may seem as if these patches of wealth have 'completely different and conflicting interests' , as you call it, but they all want the same thing: Grow and get further concentrated.

This entity or phenomenon comes about as soon as a large enough group of people join together in some enterprise (like a society), but it's not a conscious or intelligent being, which is why it ends up destroying itself at the end of each cycle.

This isn't about the rich, it's about their wealth. It needs to be capped, so it cannot grow endlessly and destroy itself.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1914
  • 0Kg CO2, 35 KWh/wk,130L H2O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 292
  • Likes Given: 15055
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #319 on: June 01, 2020, 04:16:38 AM »
Dear Neven, capping will not work because our whole society is now built on a social hierarchy where your status/successfulness is measured by the amount of accumulated material wealth. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluence)

I think you have to go one step further.

In my opinion it is material wealth (=affluence) that is the problem. Affluence (always having/getting more than you need, disposable income) is unsustainable and destructive for human society and living nature. In living nature (all other lifeforms) there is only, for some, temporary/seasonal affluence/wealth (food/shelter/safety/water).

People must stop with having the incentive to accumulate material wealth. That means that many aspects from society (status in material wealth hierarchy), culture and economic systems must change. That will not happen without the whole globalised high-tech civilisation crashing. Which is imminent (<10 yeas imo).

In the end it all boils down to the use of (high) technology and lack of responsibility/awareness for the wider consequences of its use (morality w.r.t. all other lifeforms). Our use of tech is because we think we have supremacy (we are 'higher', better) over all of living nature, over all other lifeforms, over all other leaves-on-the-tree-of-life. Our high-tech acts as Agent Orange on The Tree-of-Life.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning S. Poelsma
Prisons in your head!

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 956
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Lessons from COVID-19
« Reply #320 on: June 01, 2020, 10:24:12 AM »
Maybe it would be easier to limit the size of the companies, but technology makes that people all want the same product, we have the same problem with fashion, most teenagers want the same t-shirt, I was never able to convince my kids to design their t-shirt themselves, and when buying organic cotton ones, they only agree with the plain ones.