Who would like to take over the ASIF?

[Neven]

I've been managing this forum for a little over 7 years now. The reason this forum was set up, was that the Arctic Sea Ice Blog saw a huge influx of commenters during and after the 2012 melting season, which was significantly lowering the signal-to-noise ratio in the comment section.

This was a successful decision, much more so than anticipated. The forum grew and grew, and I ended up having to divide my time between the ASIB and ASIF. However, my time was scarce, and so it took a lot of energy to do. After a couple of years, I decided to stop blogging for a while, and that hiatus is still ongoing.

Unfortunately, due to my father's death last July, time and energy have become more scarce, as I inherited his company with 10 employees (as well as a host of other problems). And now, during the COVID-19 lockdown, I notice how much of a burn-out I've been carrying around all those years. Something that used to be a pleasure (reading dozens of comments every day), has become a chore.

Hence, my question to the ASIF community: Is there any person, or group of persons, who would be interested in taking over the ASIF? I would stay on as a member, but naturally, they could run the forum as they see fit.

Let me know what you think in comments below, or send me a PM.

[blumenkraft]

I would stay on as a member, but naturally, they could run the forum as they see fit.

I'm hereby applying for the job.

I would like to see a set of rules i can act on though. Those rules should be transparent in order to allow the community to keep the moderators in check as well.

And i would like to be allowed to fight (snip) racism (of which there is too much on the forum IMHO).

[Jim Hunt]

Thanks for all your years of sterling work on the sea ice science education front Neven.

I'm afraid the antics of "Snow White" are keeping me on the threshold of "burnout" too, but I note that BK has already volunteered for the soon to be vacant post.

Do you have a formal and transparent selection process in place yet?

[Tom_Mazanec]

Could you give me a view of what responsibilities and tasks are involved in the position?

[Archimid]

First, I would like to say thank you Neven. Those are some big shoes to fill.

May I suggest you keep the ultimate key, just in case whoever is selected can't live up to the task?

[blumenkraft]

Suggesting those as forum rules (i modified the rules from another forum so they are common forum rules):

1. No Spam / Advertising / Self-promote in the forums

Spam is defined as unsolicited advertisement for goods and services, or posts with little, or completely unrelated content. Do not spam the forums with links to your product. Spamming also includes sending private messages with the same content to more than one user.


2. Do not post "fake-news"

Already debunked information is not allowed on the forum. Climate change denialism is strictly forbidden.


3. Do not post “offensive” posts, links or images

Any material which constitutes defamation, harassment, or abuse is strictly prohibited. Material that is sexually or otherwise obscene, racist, or otherwise overly discriminatory is not permitted.


4. Do not cross-post questions

Please refrain from posting the same question in several forums. There is normally one forum which is most suitable in which to post your question.


5. Obey thread hygiene

Stay on topic. Off-topic posts might be deleted, moved or edited.


6. Remain respectful of other members

All posts should be professional and courteous. You have every right to disagree with your fellow community members and explain your perspective, but stay civil.


7. Please use SEARCH first!

There is a pretty good chance that unless you have some really odd or unique question or topic, it has been addressed on our forum before, please use the forum’s search feature first to see if there are already a thread on the subject.

It’s easy to search – just click the “Search” button at the top right of the front page.


8. Be DESCRIPTIVE and Don’t use “stupid” topic names

Post a descriptive topic name! Give a short summary of your topic in the subject field.


9. You are not allowed to have more than one account in parallel.

If you are banned from the forums, please do not create a new account. If you continue to create new accounts after you have been banned, your IP address will be blocked from the forums.


10. If you break a rule, your post will be deleted or edited. You may be warned or banned. A ban of your user account may either be temporary or permanent.

The administrators and moderators also have the right to move your post or close a thread as they see necessary.


Please report the thread/post to the moderators or admin if you see a rule broken by someone.

[Neven]

Do you have a formal and transparent selection process in place yet?

No, not yet. I first want to see how much interest there is. I somehow feel a group of people would be best.

Could you give me a view of what responsibilities and tasks are involved in the position?

-Make sure the forum doesn't explode
-Banning spambots (a couple every day)
-Moderate
-Approving posts of members on moderation

May I suggest you keep the ultimate key, just in case whoever is selected can't live up to the task?

Technically, the forum was never mine to begin with. It has been set up and is hosted by second administrator Fred aka DungeonMaster. He is fine with me handing over the Forum, but he prefers a group of people taking over.

[The Walrus]

I support blumenkraft.  Even though we have differed on several threads, he has been cordial and professional in his responses.  I cannot say that for some other posters.  Most of his forum rules look good.  A few I would reject are:  No. 2.  Fake news is subjective, and might be helpful to discuss among the posters.  One man's ...  No.7.  Yes, it would be nice if everyone searched the answer to their question first.  However, many come here to get answers to their questions, so I think we should just bear this burden and help them with appropriate links.  I heartily endorse respectfulness and would encourage the deleting of foul language in posts.  It has no place in a well-meaning debate, and only serve to denigrate the target and embarrass the poster.

[Florifulgurator]

Ideally the management should be given in the hands of a scientific institution with several people doing the job.

First close the polit threads /echo chambers. A scientific forum is a great tool for targeted polit trollery. That should not be a motivation for someone to take over management.  I see clear and present danger that the polit threads could become even worse.

[blumenkraft]

Thank you very much, Walrus. I'm a little surprised by your support since we had our fair share of disagreements. Honestly, this means a lot to me. 

[Ktb]

I must absolutely request that such a significant title be handed to a group of people, whoever they may be.

Being able to work off each other and balance potential rash decisions based on historical arguments on the forum would be a boon.

[Richard Rathbone]

Not me, but Neven has awfully big shoes and I'll be pleasantly surprised if they can be filled.

I would suggest casting the net a bit wider than the forum, if it hasn't been already. I think it was the quality of the blogging that was largely responsible for the quality of the forum. I'm not aware of anyone else that is reporting on the Arctic the way Neven used to, but I think that the sort of connection to the scientists that Neven had was important and is important in successor(s) if quality is to be maintained.

[Archimid]

9. You are not allowed to have more than one account.

Really?

Do you only have this one account? Are you the original B.Lumenkraft? Have you ever been banned from ASIF?

[Ktb]

Really?

Do you only have this one account? Are you the original B.Lumenkraft? Have you ever been banned from ASIF?

If i remember correctly, Blumenkraft deleted his own account during a spat at some point. I don't believe he was banned.

[blumenkraft]

No, i wasn't banned. I deleted the B_lumenkraft account. I had one account at a time. Never had two in parallel.

This is the gist of the rule, you shouldn't have multiple accounts at a time.

Edited OP to make that clear.

[Archimid]

So you rage quit your account and now you want to run ASIF?

Nah. Thanks.

[wili]

I'm not sure this is democratic election, but I think blum would be a great moderator. I don't have the skill set or time to help him, but it would be good to have one or two others to back him up.

[gandul]

Despite appearances I like you, blumenkraft, but you put way too many norms, some of them invasive (what's that IP thing you want to control?), and on top of that you're a bit impulsive at times, which is OK if you're not an owner.
I wouldn't mind you help moderate, but other people must be on top, like Oren, and,... I don't know, some other volunteers (of course not me, though I've been around since 2013 under four or five pseudonyms and a myriad of IPs).

[Sebastian Jones]

Oren has appeared, to me, to be a sort of deputy Neven for some time. I hope that whatever system emerges includes Oren.

I'm inclined towards the notion of a team to administer the Forum.

I'd like to add to the chorus of kudos to Neven for all his work in making this forum a very high quality and useful and trustworthy and safe space.

I have learned a tremendous amount from my (almost) daily visits these past (almost) seven years.

[TerryM]

Neven
I'm devastated.


Are there problems that we could help with to lighten your load?


Is it possible that once the isolation period is over your viewpoint might change?


Is asking you to hang in there for 6 months or so asking too much? The dreadful situation we face may have resolved itself in 6 months.


Would appointing a number of assistants help? Perhaps assistants with specific duties?
I'd jump at the chance to assist in any way I could.


I hope that you're aware of what a beacon of sanity your site is. If there is anything I can do to help in any way you've but to ask.


Please reach out for help rather than walking away from this wonderful community that you have built.
Terry

[Ktb]

Are there problems that we could help with to lighten your load?


Would appointing a number of assistants help? Perhaps assistants with specific duties?
I'd jump at the chance to assist in any way I could.


Please reach out for help rather than walking away from this wonderful community that you have built.
Terry

If somebody could be appointed with a sole job of banning spam bots, someone else on moderation of new posters/those on moderation. Could easily divide up some duties to ease the pressure.

[blumenkraft]

what's that IP thing you want to control?

Showing the IP address is a default functionality of forum software. It's necessary to fight spambots.

[gerontocrat]

Bummer !
Helluva job you've done, Neven. It's going to get even more difficult as climate change et al really shows its teeth.

Me getting into it ? Once upon a time, but not now - ghosts of the past invade my head from time to time and I become basically non-functional.

Political Content ? How can it be avoided ?

Money is politics, especially Government money.
Economics is politics.
& now climate change and all forms of environmental degradation is even more highly political.
The Heartland Institute et al aren't doing what they do as a disinterested Public Information Service.
Scientists, however reluctantly, are now dragged kicking and screaming into the political arena.

This forum is highly political simply by its existence and its content that exhibits the crimes committed by humanity against life on earth. See ? - highly political.

Something all volunteers should at least take seriously.

[blumenkraft]

... I think blum would be a great moderator.

Thank you, Wili.

... it would be good to have one or two others to back him up.

Indeed!

Preferably two other members. I would suggest an American and someone from the Australia/New Zeeland area to have time zones covered nicely.

[kassy]

So you rage quit your account and now you want to run ASIF?

Nah. Thanks.

Interesting that you mention that. I totally agree.

Long ago in a galaxy far away i was part of a forum were the owner decided to appoint sub forum mods. People had to have a relatively long history and also be level headed. Some people had more posts but some like arguing over the actual discussion more then whatever the data meant, others were very much focused on the most negative outcome. Etc.

Basically you want to discuss certain subjects and anyone who contributes insight into it is welcome. And yes that means disagreeing over many other things but then having the discussions in the proper place.

I don´t mind a bit of sweeping and come to think of it we could clean every posted tracker link.

I can do relatively simple stuff like that.
PM Neven about it.



 

[be cause]

Well .. 3 big cheers for what Neven has accomplished with ASIF and another 3 big cheers for him being prepared to hand over the reins .
   
Been here myself since 2013 , having been banned for standing up for nature elsewhere . ASIF became my go-too every day very quickly . I've always cared to be informed and (rarely) to inform . It has been my door to most other sites I visit .
 
while I felt Neven a bit too tolerant , I would be happy to volunteer to ensure BL was not too intolerant . I have no idea of how else I might help but am certainly willing to ..

I would suggest that the political threads might be hived off and someone like GSY take rein there .. they deserve a life but I for one would be happy to see them gone .. or not .

There are and have been many who would be capable of group management of this wonderful little realm we have forumed ( ) between us all  .. b.c.

ps .. welcome back gandul ..

[grixm]

And i would like to be allowed to fight (snip) racism (of which there is too much on the forum IMHO).

I think your definition of racism is pretty skewed. Your heart is in the right place but you are hypersensitive about it. I remember the drama in this thread where you ended up calling Archimid a "nazi handmaiden" for merely pointing out the fact that there are certain medical differences between genetic populations, such as sickle cell prevalence: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2996.msg249684.html#msg249684

If these are the kinds of posts that you would label as racism and remove, then I am against you being admin, if I am being honest.

[oren]

First, thank you Neven for this forum, my almost-only source of non-local news and where I've learned huge amounts of information over the years. Your guidance and moderation were great and your knowledge immense. With that said I did feel your emotional absence in the past few months, which was a bummer. So I understand your decision to bring in fresh troops.
I volunteer to help in moderation**. I am highly pressed for time as I often work 16 hours per day. But my work is in front of a computer or cellphone and leaves me time to read the ASIF in many spare moments. I used to read each and every post, now I lack the time for that, but I often "know" which posts are problematic or OT and which users should be booted or reprimanded.
I think the best thing would some kind of moderator group. I think highly of you blumenkraft and your many contributions, but I also sense a bit of impulsiveness and readiness to find a heated argument even where none need exist. Being sole moderator would not do you good and could harm the ASIF - every valued member we lose diminishes the forum, even if it's people who disagree with you (and even if they disagree with me!). And people take offense easily and have long memories.
Those we should lose are those who troll incessantly or who attack other people constantly. I am sure a majority would immediately agree on such rare actions.
Running the whole operation as chief - go for it blumenkraft, and good for us.
Moderation - I suggest a group of chief and 4 other moderators (if such are found), each with authority to edit on his/her own, but majority can overrule each single moderator, and majority required for banning users.

** My main qualification - I cover all 24 hours in a day...

[blumenkraft]

I think the best thing would some kind of moderator group.

Agreed! And great you are willing to do it too.

readiness to find a heated argument even where none need exist.

Guilty as charged i guess. But as a moderator, i would be aware of the responsibility and not act like i was a random forum member. A moderator needs to be neutral.

Being sole moderator would not do you good and could harm the ASIF

Running the whole operation as chief - go for it blumenkraft, and good for us.

I think all moderators in this group should have equal say. DungeonMaster is the chief.

[Sciguy]

Neven, thanks for your work on this forum.  You've done a great job and I've learned a lot over the years by participating.

I'm glad that there are several people willing to step up and help moderate.  I'd prefer to see it as a group effort, so no one feel too burdened with the responsibilities.  I'd support a group that includes Blumenkraft, Oren and Tom as they all seem to be passionate about the forum.

[Archimid]

Oren. I'm glad to hear that you are onboard. I couldn't think of anyone who has shown more authenticity and scientific knowledge. If you are in, I think we are good.

blumenkraft... As a moderator, what is your north to determine "neutrality" or "truth"?

Also, why did you quit and come back? If indeed you are the same person.

[blumenkraft]

Also, why did you quit and come back?

I quit because of a dispute i had with Neven.

I registered again because some users missed me and i missed them. I used the forum to send them PMs for a while. I started to post publicly again after Neven and i eliminated the dispute.

And yes, i am the same person.

[Archimid]

ok. And the first one. How do you decide what is truth or what is neutral? What is your north?

Surely you can deal with bots and trolls, but what about your temper? See you already rage quite once and sent me quite a nasty letter over PM. That is not what good mods do.

This little PM of yours that you sent me as we were having a debate tells me you shouldn't mod.

Archimid, i have no problem with posting the following publicly. But i'm trying in private first in the hopes you take me more seriously this way. So here it goes:

Could you please stop pulling shit out of your ass and state them as facts? Please?

What you are doing is really dangerous. You might get people killed by spreading bullshit with such confidence.

Please, do your due diligence. It starts by quoting correctly for example. Also copy and paste is not too hard, you should be able to do that. If not, let it be!

While you think you are clever and informed you are actually sloppy and uninformed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Please try to do better. At least use phrases like 'in my opinion' or 'i think' or something like that.

Thank you in advance.

[blumenkraft]

ok. And the first one. How do you decide what is truth or what is neutral? What is your north?

I don't get the question to be honest. Those two are not opposites. The truth stays the truth and neutral means less opinionated in this case.

Anyway, nothing i could possibly say would convince you. I get that. You should too.

[Archimid]

You are already convinced that I can not be convinced. But I can.

My question is honest. knowing the limits of your own knowledge is a requirement for good modding, and something impossible to accomplish. It is an aspiration.

How do you aspire to find the best truth? How do you remove your own biases?

How will you deal with people like me?

[blumenkraft]

How will you deal with people like me?

I would leave you to Oren, or B.C.

[Archimid]

I think an ASIF moderator should be aware of their own unknowledge. Also you should be able to detach emotions to make good decisions.

This is the forum at the end of the universe.

[wili]

Also, let me join the general chorus of praise for Neven, regret that he must leave, and many well wishes for whatever he pursues next.

I think kassy would be a great addition. Geographical distribution may not be as important as having a mix of night owls and 'day owls,' it seems to me

oren, bc, and others come to mind, but are they willing?

[jjj18641]

Whoever "takes over" should consider ways to amplify the discussions being held here in a manner that is consumable and understandable for a person without as much scientific background as those that are contributing to it. I'd like to see/participate in a project plan around that deliverable.

[blumenkraft]

oren, bc, and others come to mind, but are they willing?

Gladly they are.

[pccp82]

I have been here since 2013.....and I have seen the forum evolve. Nothing personal, but i do not want to see blumenkraft anywhere near the controls.

better to let the forum die IMO. its too infected with nonsense.

[sidd]

If we are to have rules, I'd like to see clearer definitions.

--
2. Do not post "fake-news"

Already debunked information is not allowed on the forum. Climate change denialism is strictly forbidden.
--

Define the terms "fake," "debunking" and "denialism" ? For example, I have seen perfectly valid arguments called "denialism" on this forum.

--
3. Do not post “offensive” posts, links or images

Any material which constitutes defamation, harassment, or abuse is strictly prohibited. Material that is sexually or otherwise obscene, racist, or otherwise overly discriminatory is not permitted.
--

Define  "offensive," "defamation," "harassment," "obscene," "racist" and "disriminatory" ?

In the past Neven ran this forum with no explicit rules and used his judgement. I think that mostly worked, people went along because he started the forum and owns it. Replacing him with another dictator might work, as long as the dictator remained benevolent.

I would suggest taking a vote on new dictator(s) and spelling out a procedure for removal. Of course, that brings up other issues such as term limits, re-elections, campaigning limits ...

Perhaps Neven should have the power to appoint and remove sub-dictators instead of elections. As in political elections, those who want the job are sometimes exactly the people who should not be allowed to have it.

sidd

[El Cid]

One more vote for oren, he is the man to do the job.

And please do not put any zealots in the control tower.

[pleun]

If we are to have rules, I'd like to see clearer definitions.

if we need rules to tell us how to behave, then we're in deep trouble anyway...

[jdallen]

I recommend a team of three, so major decisions (like banning someone) don't have to be shouldered by an individual, and, if there are internal disagreements, a majority can still implement a needed action.

I'd offer, but I have similar challenges to Neven (sole caregiver of a 90 year old father, among other things) which add stress.  Being volatile, I also would second guess my objectivity.

No one volunteering so far has stood out as objectionable to me.

Neven, thank you, and good luck.

[blumenkraft]

Define the terms "fake," "debunking" and "denialism" ? For example, I have seen perfectly valid arguments called "denialism" on this forum.

Just as Neven never allowed climate change denialism from respective websites. We all can agree that anthropomorphic climate change is happening, right? People who deny this were never welcome here.

Define  "offensive," "defamation," "harassment," "obscene," "racist" and "discriminatory" ?

Really, as they are perceived in a common sense. Don't insult people, don't hate on minorities, don't discriminate.

In the past Neven ran this forum with no explicit rules

Yes, but if there is a moderating team, there need to be some guidelines, no? Really, those are very common rules used on forums.

[philopek]

I think an ASIF moderator should be aware of their own unknowledge. Also you should be able to detach emotions to make good decisions.

Surprised and glad at the same time that I can gladly and 100% agree with those two statements.

When I saw the new thread title i knew exactly who jumps first. (with some luck of course)

This forum needs a MODERATE moderator and people like myself, BK and a few others simply don't qualify, so what remains is that some know that they're not qualified and others don't.

As it happpens, left-wingers are no bit better than right-wingers, they only sound nicer because their ideas are nice, even though far from the laws of the universe, laws of physics and facts of life, mostly ending in multi-field-disasters.

However, since i'm at it, b.c, oren and a few others would at least qualify, independent of whether they want to do it, while the perfect mod, politician etc. is usually going to opt-out or stay away, knowing perhaps a tiny bit more even, which is why so often the wrong guys get the job, because the right guys mostly don't want the job.

In this context it might be slightly different because as you said, the original topic of this forum
is too just and too important to leave it to the not qualified with a political agenda and short fuses.

Last but not least and since I'm at it, political discussions should be out-sourced and considered off-topic in a forum about factual developments of our climate and related fields.

As to IP bans, this is "halb-schlau" (half knowledge / half smart ) it's so easy to use VPNs and Tor Networks and even many more things and just don't come up with DNS and MAC addresses, the very same applies.

EDIT: we can make a test, tell me where i am and you shall see that each time i login my IP is changing, this has nothing to do with this forum, i do that since 8 years generally while browsing the internet. If you guess right i shall honestly confirm, there are ways to proof either way

Also i have 2 accounts, one is to read only and the other is to post, why is that, because if i have to open a new browser and get to the page etc. i often cool down in the process to avoid the worst
wording, mostly the entire reply, because there are horrible things going on at times LOL

[Juan C. García]

I haven’t commented, in a way, because I am shocked with the news.

The true is that I don’t have the time to offer myself to take Neven’s job, nor the knowledge. So, I will not offer myself to do it, not even as part of a group. But I am sure that there are several people here that can take control of the ASIF.

Neven. We thank you for all the work you have done. You did it Great!!! I also think that you should stay as the administrator, not as only a member. Even if you don’t do any work for several months and/or years.

Thanks a lot!!!

[Pmt111500]

Dear me, sorry to hear Neven.

I'm not suitable, for my (quite frequent) rants. I'd probably be seeing red when reading some political naivety (like saying 'individualism is a political ideology') and instablock potentially good posters for one sentence out of context. Also this would probably be too much for my health isn't too good. Getting cranky due own ailments on a job like managing this forum is not what people expect of a moderator. I might be able to run a forum that has only science, but this one, no way.

Hopefully you find good candidates who can fill at least parts of your boots.

[Archimid]

Just as Neven never allowed climate change denialism from respective websites. We all can agree that anthropomorphic climate change is happening, right? People who deny this were never welcome here.

One more question. I hope these questions are seen as a sort of "interview". I hope any ASIF God candidate considers these questions seriously.

 How do you avoid turning ASIF into an echo chamber?

We already are an echo chamber. Its almost impossible not to be, but Neven almost always allowed room for dissent. That balance will be hard to duplicate.