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Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #150 on: June 23, 2020, 08:11:12 PM »
Primary voting is happening in NY and Kentucky, but due to covid and heavy reliance on mail-in ballots, don't expect much in the way of results until at least next week.

Stakes are very high for progressives....

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/todays-elections-in-kentucky-and-new-york-are-high-stakes-for-the-progressive-movement/

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #151 on: June 24, 2020, 10:01:22 AM »
Early returns look great for progressives in NY.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

AOC appears headed for a blowout win and two of the candidates she backed for other seats in the House are leading as well.

Jamaal Bowman is leading in his race against 30 year incumbent Eliot Engel and Mondaire Jones is leading in a race to fill an open seat. Jones could become the first black male LGBTQ congressman.

It looks like progressives may pick up several seats in the state assembly as well.

New York is moving left !!


Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #152 on: June 24, 2020, 12:12:31 PM »
If Biden wins the POTUS election, would that be a advance for Progressivism or just BAU?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #153 on: June 24, 2020, 01:09:53 PM »
If Biden wins the POTUS election, would that be a advance for Progressivism or just BAU?

A Biden win will be infinitely better than a Trump win, but not nearly as good as a Sanders win would have been.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 05:58:49 AM by Phoenix »

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #154 on: June 25, 2020, 06:06:53 AM »
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/06/new-york-city-election-primary-democratic-socialists-of-america

Last Night’s Elections Were a Political Earthquake

article highlights.....

The undisputed highlight is New York’s Sixteenth Congressional District, where middle school principal Jamaal Bowman successfully ousted Representative Eliot Engel — the most senior Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee and unquestionably one of the worst Democrats in Congress — by a double-digit margin.

Engel was the party establishment’s favorite, counting Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and even the Congressional Black Caucus among his endorsers.

Ocasio-Cortez won easily, improving on her result against Crowley and taking home more than 70 percent of the vote.

Thirty-three-year old Mondaire Jones, backed by Sanders, AOC, and the Working Families Party maintains a lead in his NY-17 House primary.

Though the outcome of Kentucky’s Democratic Senate primary won’t be known until mail-in ballots are counted at the end of the month, Charles Booker also looks to be nipping at the heels of pro-Trump Democrat Amy McGrath.

Last night’s races refreshingly suggest that plenty of incumbent Democrats remain vulnerable to challenges from left insurgents — and that, despite Sanders’s defeat, the appetite for a transformative agenda that includes a Green New Deal, ambitious criminal justice reform, and Medicare For All hasn’t gone away.

The Walrus

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #155 on: June 25, 2020, 03:04:46 PM »
Booker has made the race quite competitive, and the results may not be known until later next week.  The delay is less because of the closeness of the race, as opposite to the large number of mail-in ballots.  Since Booker made a late surge, the early ballots may not help him much.  Still, there is a chance.  A Booker victory would help progressives, but not so much the Democratic party, as his chances against McConnell would be much less than McGrath, would could pull moderates away from the conservative Senator.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #156 on: June 25, 2020, 06:27:22 PM »
A Booker victory would help progressives, but not so much the Democratic party, as his chances against McConnell would be much less than McGrath, would could pull moderates away from the conservative Senator.

A Booker win would be huge for progressives who have to first win the battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party first before they can go toe to toe with corporate Republicans.

Schumer and the DSCC put McGrath on a pedestal which helped her raise over $40 million and she's a total dud of a candidate. Which Democratic voters can be excited about someone who campaigns by saying she'll be better for Trump's agenda than McConnell ?? Yuck.

The fact that Booker is running on grass roots enthusiasm and not some cynical republican-lite agenda will motivate people to show up and vote for him in November. I agree that he is a significant underdog to McConnell but at least he will have some passionate working class support.

America is in a class war and we need people willing to fight that battle.

The Walrus

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #157 on: June 25, 2020, 09:49:40 PM »
A Booker victory would help progressives, but not so much the Democratic party, as his chances against McConnell would be much less than McGrath, would could pull moderates away from the conservative Senator.

A Booker win would be huge for progressives who have to first win the battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party first before they can go toe to toe with corporate Republicans.

Schumer and the DSCC put McGrath on a pedestal which helped her raise over $40 million and she's a total dud of a candidate. Which Democratic voters can be excited about someone who campaigns by saying she'll be better for Trump's agenda than McConnell ?? Yuck.

The fact that Booker is running on grass roots enthusiasm and not some cynical republican-lite agenda will motivate people to show up and vote for him in November. I agree that he is a significant underdog to McConnell but at least he will have some passionate working class support.

America is in a class war and we need people willing to fight that battle.

I do not doubt that he would motivate Democrats more than McGrath.  It just will not help much in a Republican state.

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2020, 05:47:41 PM »
Sanders Unveils Amendment to Slash Pentagon Budget by $74 Billion

Link >> https://truthout.org/articles/sanders-unveils-amendment-to-slash-pentagon-budget-by-74-billion/

kassy

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2020, 05:55:20 PM »
And that is only 10%.

If they only used only half of the fraud in the pentagon budget for social programs and investments that actually helped (us jobs in upgrading roads, housing, the sewers whatever) they could make the US a much better place.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #160 on: June 28, 2020, 09:16:25 PM »
116 California delegates to the DNC national convention signed a letter urging Pelosi to allow an up or down vote in the House on Medicare For All.

https://medium.com/@passthedamnbill/116-california-delegates-call-on-speaker-pelosi-to-schedule-a-floor-vote-on-medicare-for-all-9a1a037e10d5

Will they succeed? Extremely unlikely.

But it's still important to keep bringing the pressure. Pelosi has always been able to secure 80+% in her general election contests in San Francisco. If they can get her below 70% in November, that's a step in the right direction.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #161 on: June 29, 2020, 01:57:39 PM »
After 1.5 years, the House Democratic select committee on the climate crisis will release their recommended action plan on the climate crisis. Their will be a press conference at 10AM est (2+ hours from now) tomorrow which can be followed via the link in the attached thread.

https://climatecrisis.house.gov/media-advisory-sccc-report

This should be seen as a political move. They are setting the Democratic Party platform for electoral purposes for Congress. Their goal is to get re-elected.

The reaction from progressive leaders like AOC and Sunrise Movement should be pretty quick.

Note: the chair of the select committee is FL Congresswoman Kathy Castor who is also on Biden's climate task force.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 04:43:48 PM by Phoenix »

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #162 on: June 29, 2020, 02:10:49 PM »
Sanders endorses progressive Arati Kreibich in a New Jersey congressional primary vs. establishment incumbent Josh Gottheimer. Primary day is July 7th.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/06/15/she-understands-healthcare-right-all-sanders-endorses-dr-arati-kreibichs-bid-oust

Lot of primary news is coming tomorrow. Should get some updated counts on Booker v. McGrath in KY, Patel v Maloney in NY and the CO primary with Romanoff  v. Hickenlooper.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #163 on: July 01, 2020, 11:05:53 AM »
Booker fell short of McGrath by a few points in Kentucky. Not the result we wanted, but considering that she outraised him by something like 20:1, not a bad outcome and much closer than expected. McGrath will probably lose to McConnell in the general election and then she'll be 0 for 2 with no political resume. Booker is still quite young and on the rise.

Romanoff lost as expected to Hickenlooper in Colorado.

No Senate breakthroughs for progressives to add to the House wins.








blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #164 on: July 01, 2020, 11:11:15 AM »
What a bummer.  :-[

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #165 on: July 01, 2020, 11:46:07 PM »
As a donor to Sunrise Movement, the US youth climate movement, I receive e-mail regarding their political efforts. Thought I would share their glass half full take on yesterday's results.


Dear Charlie,

Today hurts—even more because of how high the stakes were. We could have been celebrating the win of a progressive Black man set to tackle Mitch McConnell in a head-to-head fight in Kentucky, and a win against a pro-fracking Democrat in Colorado. Instead, our champions were defeated in these two states. It’s okay to take a moment to grieve these losses.

But I can’t help but feel energized by how close we were, and I am so, so, so proud of you — of us — for trying. For taking on the establishment when no one else was there. For standing with candidates that so many others wrote off, and putting up one hell of a fight.

We are young, new, and learning every day. For a lot of us, 2020 has been our first experience with political organizing. Many of us aren’t even old enough to vote yet. We didn’t have anywhere near the money our opponents had to pour into these races. And yet, look what we accomplished.

We almost won. I have to imagine our opponents are congratulating themselves with a little sweat on their brows. These races were so very close—and you can bet they’re nervous about next time.

When no one believed in Charles and Andrew, our movement was there. We showed everyone that these races were within reach, that we can take on the Democratic establishment, even with all their money and out-of-state endorsements.

We have built—are still building—so much power. And that makes the establishment afraid. Our people power is a type of organizing that doesn’t go away when the election ends. It lingers in the streets, wakes them up at their houses in the middle of the night, and will show up in force at the polls next time.

I’m proud to be on the Sunrise side, with you.

Evan Weber, Political Director


P.S. - Help us keep fighting by signing up for a phone bank shift to uplift Mike Siegel in Texas and Arati Kreibich in New Jersey. We’re going to need all the volunteers we can gather to have a shot at winning these races.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #166 on: July 06, 2020, 02:45:20 AM »
There's been a bit of a debate between respected progressive media figures Krystal Ball (Rising) and Nathan Robinson (Current Affairs editor) about the topic of trying to cultivate a union between populists on the left and right.

Here's an interesting discussion between ace journalist Glenn Greenwald (Snowden's mouthpiece) and the two on the topic.

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/25/should-the-populist-left-work-with-the-populist-right-where-they-have-common-ground-or-shun-them/

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #167 on: July 06, 2020, 08:50:09 AM »
respected progressive media figures Krystal Ball

She's a grifter.

LEFTIES HAVE NO COMMON GROUND WITH FASCISTS! PERIOD!

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #168 on: July 06, 2020, 11:36:35 AM »
respected progressive media figures Krystal Ball

She's a grifter.

LEFTIES HAVE NO COMMON GROUND WITH FASCISTS! PERIOD!

Why would a grifter leave MSNBC and their megabucks?

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #169 on: July 06, 2020, 11:45:46 AM »
Well, The Hill Rising is well funded by brown GOP propaganda money.

And then there is also this:

Quote
In May 2018, McClatchy wrote of her PAC:

But thus far, nobody has benefited more financially from the group than Ball herself. Of the $445,000 Ball raised for the group, she paid herself more than a third of that—$174,000—in salary, according to documents filed with the Federal Election Commission. The majority of her salary—$104,000—came in the first three months of this year alone. That's nearly eight times more than the nearly $22,000 the PHP has used to support its dozen endorsed candidates, some of whom have received just a single $1,000 contribution. Political groups with a glaring discrepancy between personal salaries and candidate contributions are often deemed so-called “Scam PACs,” a type of organization that enriches its founders while doing little to assist the cause or candidate they purportedly support.

Link >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krystal_Ball


sidd

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #170 on: July 06, 2020, 10:06:59 PM »
What is the evidence that all of the populist right wing are fascists ?

sidd

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #171 on: July 06, 2020, 10:13:08 PM »
What do you mean, Sidd? Ball's narrative is that people on the left have common ground with Tucker Carlson. Are you saying Tucker Carlson is not a fascist?

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #172 on: July 06, 2020, 10:48:38 PM »
I think that the concept is a little more nuanced than that.

On the whole, Tucker Carlson is an ethno-nationalist dick. But he is one talking head on Fox who entertains anti-establishment topics. He was supportive of AOC's pushback against giveaways to Amazon which kept them out of NYC and he has been against imperialistic war mongering in places like the Middle East and Venezuela.

I think the point is that lefties don't have a majority and we need to find overlaps where possible to advance our agenda.

Ball doesn't suggest any compromising on issues relating to fascism.

We need to find common cause with the anti-establishment Trump 2016 voters where possible. A lot of that rust belt vote was people who voted for Obama and were slapped in the face with the establishment Democrat's pursuing shit like TPP which outsourced their jobs overseas.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #173 on: July 06, 2020, 11:29:37 PM »
Tomorrow, progressives have another shot at a centrist incumbent Democrat in New Jersey with Dr. Arati Kreibich taking on conservative Josh Gottheimer. Results won't be immediate with the heavy mail in vote taking time to count.

Gottheimer is the favorite with the huge fundraising haul, but there is hope that the NY results will spill over into NJ and make the race more competitive.

An interesting spin on this race is that Kreibich was a volunteer for Gottheimer in the 2018 election but is not pleased with his centrist voting record.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/politics/new-jersey-5-primary-josh-gottheimer-arati-kreibich/index.html

sedziobs

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #174 on: July 06, 2020, 11:47:28 PM »
I think the point is that lefties don't have a majority and we need to find overlaps where possible to advance our agenda.

Ball doesn't suggest any compromising on issues relating to fascism.

Finding common ground is different in scope from forming an alliance, which requires compromise. Robinson's point is that any kind of alliance with right wing populists is in fact a compromise on issues relating to fascism, despite Ball's objections.

Quote
Let’s be clear about the implications of accepting the theory of politics presented in the Populist’s Guide to 2020. If we assume, as the book says, that the correct alliance is between the “new right” and “new left,” then Bernie Sanders supporters have more in common with Donald Trump than with Joe Biden. In fact, I think one could take away from this book that it would make more sense for the Left to vote for Trump than Biden. But this is madness: Trump represents everything we are trying to destroy. I have written before about the dangers of accepting “nationalism wrapped in socialist rhetoric,” in the context of reviewing Tucker Carlson’s book. Carlson, like Enjeti, rants about billionaire elites, but is also a racist whom the Daily Stormer has called their “greatest ally.”
currentaffairs.org/2020/06/isnt-right-wing-populism-just-fascism

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #175 on: July 07, 2020, 12:41:35 AM »
I think the point is that lefties don't have a majority and we need to find overlaps where possible to advance our agenda.

Ball doesn't suggest any compromising on issues relating to fascism.

Finding common ground is different in scope from forming an alliance, which requires compromise. Robinson's point is that any kind of alliance with right wing populists is in fact a compromise on issues relating to fascism, despite Ball's objections.

Quote
Let’s be clear about the implications of accepting the theory of politics presented in the Populist’s Guide to 2020. If we assume, as the book says, that the correct alliance is between the “new right” and “new left,” then Bernie Sanders supporters have more in common with Donald Trump than with Joe Biden. In fact, I think one could take away from this book that it would make more sense for the Left to vote for Trump than Biden. But this is madness: Trump represents everything we are trying to destroy. I have written before about the dangers of accepting “nationalism wrapped in socialist rhetoric,” in the context of reviewing Tucker Carlson’s book. Carlson, like Enjeti, rants about billionaire elites, but is also a racist whom the Daily Stormer has called their “greatest ally.”
currentaffairs.org/2020/06/isnt-right-wing-populism-just-fascism

I think that Greenwald's subsequent taped interview of Robinson and Ball on this topic (linked above) allows for a more nuanced investigation of the parameters here.

The three of them iterate to a relatively respectful meeting of the minds and Robinson, arguably one of the most respected lefty journalists, is complimentary of Ball while having nothing good to say about her sparring partner Enjeti.

I think it's more than reasonable to say that there is some population of voters who agree on economic populism but disagree on issues like immigration, criminal justice and LGBTQ rights.

Robinson's point is that there is no genuine political movement or leader pursuing economic populism on the right. Trump campaigned as an economic populist and successfully maneuvered to the left of Clinton on trade. But that was all rhetoric and he has governed as a standard establishment Republican. The three agree that Trump is a con man.

Ball's counter point is that even though there is no organized and sincere populist political movement on the right, there is in fact a constituency of voters to be appealed to. She is arguing that there is an unserved market.

When Bernie Sanders makes a deal with Mike Lee which results in the Senate voting to restrict the ability to wage war in Yemen, that's a good thing IMO. If AOC and Ted Cruz can work together to curb the power of Facebook and Google, that's also a good thing IMO.

There is constructive tension in this argument. Politically, I'm closer to Robinson (and Sanders and Chomsky, etc.) and have come to the personal decision that I'm definitely supporting Biden as the lesser evil over Trump. But I also respect Ball's position to label neoliberal Democrat's as being a big problem needing to be taken down. I value her voice in the discussion and see it as genuine.




sedziobs

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #176 on: July 07, 2020, 04:59:52 AM »
Yes, Robinson has not been shy in his support for Ball over the years. I'm a Current Affairs subscriber. His original disagreement was only with the framing of populism in her new book. I think we'd all agree that there is a wide range of voters, some of whom may identify as populists on the right, to be appealed to with leftist ideas. I do however agree with Robinson that readers may underestimate the dangers of forming a unified populist movement, and that Ball's book might be too cavalier about them (though I haven't read it). Since then the argument has expanded a bit and gained some new perspectives and nuance. It's a healthy discussion to have.

sidd

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #177 on: July 07, 2020, 09:28:16 AM »
Calling people names like "fascist" dont help.

I  work with many who would call themselves  "right wing." Most dont use the term "populist" but if you defined the term as "local self government," they would agree. Are they all "fascist?"

Let me give you an example. I was out today in fairly hellish weather, well over 95F, full sun, no breath of wind with a buncha guys doing erosion control along stream bank.  One is a bigoted racist (yes, i call him that to his face, and he agrees), another is a biker, couple more are straight union IBEW, voted for Trump ... you get the picture.

The bigoted racist is an artist with big blade earth mover. The IBEW guys are artists with backhoes and dump trucks on slopes.  The biker is a hydrologist who has done this more times than he can remember.

We spent ten hours stabilizing a stream bank. We will be back later doing more. And all of us will return in fall planting native trees and shrubs with thought and care and hope they may survive the climes to come.

All volunteer. No one got paid. We put the project together, had state DNR sign off, donated equipment, time, manpower, materiel and we are getting it done.

But call em fascists if you will. That aint gonna stop me working with them. Ya, these guys might not agree with me on a bunch of things (they have terrible taste in beer, for example) but i work with em where we agree.
 
What is the problem with that ? If you tell me i shouldnt work with the bigoted racist because the "takeaway" is that i support bigoted racism i will laff in your face and so will he.

Especially when that same guy is the one that comes by and stays with us all night soaked to the skin in a storm in freezing weather to keep a blocked culvert open so the road dont collapse.

We know where we stand, but we help each other out. Whatcha gonna do, stand there and snicker when the guy is drowning because he dont share your ideas ? Thats a pretty cold way to live.


sidd

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #178 on: July 07, 2020, 09:37:41 AM »
Calling people names like "fascist" dont help.

Csuse me?


Quote
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

This is totally Tucker Carlson. And on top, you have the rampant racism with him. Which makes him a nazi. By definition of the words.

Sorry, Sidd, but words have meaning and i just use them accordingly. Coming clear with the words would be helpful IMHO.

PS: I always love to read your anecdotes though. :)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 09:44:21 AM by blumenkraft »

sidd

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #179 on: July 07, 2020, 09:47:04 AM »
Cool. Call em what you will.

Does the label "fascist" preclude working with them ?

sidd

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #180 on: July 07, 2020, 09:55:32 AM »
I personally prefer not to engage with people i despise. But this is only me. I don't think you are doing it wrong working with those folks.

But since this is a political thread, let's go away from the personal level.

When Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul working on a bill cutting funds from the military? Of course. I'm all for it. I will still fight the libertarian moron whenever i can. And i want Bernie to do the same.

The picture is, you don't march with the nazis, but you don't hinder them pushing down the wall you want to see pushed down.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #181 on: July 07, 2020, 10:34:37 AM »
I don't know Tucker Carlson personally, just like I don't know Al Sharpton or Rachel Maddow or any other cable news talking head.

What I do understand is that they entire collection of cable talking heads create a kabuki theater of left vs.right which is designed to keep the working class divided along identity lines. I view these hosts as performers in a coordinated Orwellian play. They are well paid by the oligarchs to perform a service of distracting the regular people from the fact that our democracy is an illusion. I view Tucker and Rachel as teammates, even though we are told that are competing with each other for audience share.

I don't trust any of them and if Tucker says fascist shit, then maybe he is and maybe he isn't. It doesn't really matter to me in terms of impacting my daily life. I still want the people who watch his show to support the issues I care about and like Sidd points out, these people don't all wake up in the morning with fascist thoughts in their head. Most of them are not highly educated and have grown up in some kind of silo which causes them to have a narrow world view. They gravitate to authority and order and cling to some stupid idea of a pecking order in which they are better than someone else.

You don't live in America today bl and you didn't live in Germany in 1930 either.

We are a brainwashed fucking country and there are very limited media options. The people are groomed to be sheeple to follow one of two paths with the same corporate master running both sides.

Someone like Krystal is attempting something noble in trying to help people transcend the divide  and conquer and get the working class together on the same page. She is trying to reach the people who prefer Tucker Carlson to Rachel Maddow and you're trying to crucify her for that. She's not a fascist and she's not going to compromise on anything fascist.

I want to try and find common cause with sidd's work buddies. They may not agree with me on immigration reform or criminal justice reform, but maybe they agree on progressive taxation, trade and health care. I'm going to take what I can get and if they like Tucker Carlson, I'm still going to try and cultivate common ground.

You can more easily afford to remain a purist on the sidelines in Germany. You have a social safety net. We're collapsing here in the US and we need to be a little more pragmatic.

Viggy

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #182 on: July 07, 2020, 11:55:42 AM »
One is a bigoted racist (yes, i call him that to his face, and he agrees)

The bigoted racist is an artist with big blade earth mover. All volunteer. No one got paid. We put the project together, had state DNR sign off, donated equipment, time, manpower, materiel and we are getting it done.

That aint gonna stop me working with them. Ya, these guys might not agree with me on a bunch of things (they have terrible taste in beer, for example) but i work with em where we agree.

Especially when that same guy is the one that comes by and stays with us all night soaked to the skin in a storm in freezing weather to keep a blocked culvert open so the road dont collapse.

We know where we stand, but we help each other out. Whatcha gonna do, stand there and snicker when the guy is drowning because he dont share your ideas ? Thats a pretty cold way to live.

sidd

I'm assuming said individual doesn't "help out" people of color. And I'm assuming that while you may tell him racism is bad, it doesn't really affect you ...

His skill with an earth mover, his taste in beer and how wet and cold he got that one time are all pointless anecdotes when we use it to define his racism, as "an idea we don't share". Normalizing racism as 'an idea' or a 'viewpoint' lends credence to the narrative, that it is a valid opinion to have. And that is just insulting at its core in every imaginable way.

If someone cant show humans basic decency because of the color of their skin, one cannot be expected to value their contributions to society, no matter how altruistic they may seem

sedziobs

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #183 on: July 07, 2020, 04:15:43 PM »
But call em fascists if you will. That aint gonna stop me working with them. Ya, these guys might not agree with me on a bunch of things (they have terrible taste in beer, for example) but i work with em where we agree.
 
What is the problem with that ? If you tell me i shouldnt work with the bigoted racist because the "takeaway" is that i support bigoted racism i will laff in your face and so will he.

Talking with individuals is not the problem. I'm in the same state as you working in the road construction industry, so I encounter many of the same type of folks that you describe. I work and talk with them every day. We get along well. If I formed a new political party with that same group, included their racist attitudes in the platform, and chose as its leader or standard-bearer someone like Carlson, I would consider my party more fascist than leftist. That's a problem. I can criticise pundits and leaders in a conversation among fellow leftists while still politely engaging with my right wing friends and co-workers (and without telling them any kind of label I might think they fall under). 

sedziobs

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #184 on: July 07, 2020, 04:40:24 PM »
I'm assuming said individual doesn't "help out" people of color.

You might be surprised. Most midwestern racists I know would help any individual without hesitation. Their racism is focused on erosion of their culture rather than outward hatred. If you saw one of them interacting with a person of color, you probably would have no idea they were racist. Of course their inward xenophobic racism is still a scourge on society that does harm to all people in myriad ways, and I don't hesitate to tell them that. I'll talk with them about many issues, but I'm not going to concede on anything that I believe to be fascist.

Viggy

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #185 on: July 07, 2020, 06:36:24 PM »
I'm assuming said individual doesn't "help out" people of color.

You might be surprised. Most midwestern racists I know would help any individual without hesitation. Their racism is focused on erosion of their culture rather than outward hatred. If you saw one of them interacting with a person of color, you probably would have no idea they were racist. Of course their inward xenophobic racism is still a scourge on society that does harm to all people in myriad ways, and I don't hesitate to tell them that. I'll talk with them about many issues, but I'm not going to concede on anything that I believe to be fascist.

I have had plenty of racists in Ohio, Missouri, Tennessee  and Georgia say outwardly racists things to me so no, I wouldn’t be surprised. And a man who, per Sidd’s admissions, openly admits to being a bigoted racist is clearly not shy of his views. Otherwise, we wouldn’t know he was a racist.

We keep trying to frame racism, as something that’s the duty of the person being racially demeaned, as having the responsibility to solve. It’s not my problem that someone falsely believes they are better than me based on the color of my skin or my country of origin. It’s not my responsibility to talk to a person who finds my act of existence, unnatural or disconcerting.

I wouldn’t try to find common ground with Nazis, I wouldn’t try to find common ground with Fascists, I wouldn’t try to find common ground with Rapists and I wouldn’t try to find common ground with Racists. They can figure out their own insecurities and come tell me why they are wrong.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #186 on: July 07, 2020, 06:45:55 PM »
At an individual level, racism typically has it's roots in ignorance or fear / insecurity and the corporate media on both side reinforces identity tension.

Our typical white racist has been taught this outlook by his / her parents. Most people have an inner ego need to feel like they are more virtuous than others so they go looking for people like Carlson or Maddow to reinforce their relative sense of virtue.

If the oligarchs are paying $5M a year or more for the divide and conquer performers, there's going to be a line of people willing to fight for that job. Carlson and Maddow have the jobs because they are effective and talented at it. What they personally believe doesn't actually matter as long as they can convince the maximum amount of sheeple to herd into separate camps and hate each other. That's their real job.

Fixing the disease that ails America means overcoming the divide and conquer messaging.

I'm going to salute the people like Krystal Ball and Joe Rogan who try to do that. Sidd's co-worker is not my enemy. He's just ignorant and I'm going to be relentless in trying to reach out and show him the light.

Freegrass

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #187 on: July 07, 2020, 07:10:21 PM »
I don't know Tucker Carlson personally, just like I don't know Al Sharpton or Rachel Maddow or any other cable news talking head.

What I do understand is that they entire collection of cable talking heads create a kabuki theater of left vs.right which is designed to keep the working class divided along identity lines. I view these hosts as performers in a coordinated Orwellian play. They are well paid by the oligarchs to perform a service of distracting the regular people from the fact that our democracy is an illusion. I view Tucker and Rachel as teammates, even though we are told that are competing with each other for audience share.

I don't trust any of them and if Tucker says fascist shit, then maybe he is and maybe he isn't. It doesn't really matter to me in terms of impacting my daily life. I still want the people who watch his show to support the issues I care about and like Sidd points out, these people don't all wake up in the morning with fascist thoughts in their head. Most of them are not highly educated and have grown up in some kind of silo which causes them to have a narrow world view. They gravitate to authority and order and cling to some stupid idea of a pecking order in which they are better than someone else.

You don't live in America today bl and you didn't live in Germany in 1930 either.

We are a brainwashed fucking country and there are very limited media options. The people are groomed to be sheeple to follow one of two paths with the same corporate master running both sides.

Someone like Krystal is attempting something noble in trying to help people transcend the divide  and conquer and get the working class together on the same page. She is trying to reach the people who prefer Tucker Carlson to Rachel Maddow and you're trying to crucify her for that. She's not a fascist and she's not going to compromise on anything fascist.

I want to try and find common cause with sidd's work buddies. They may not agree with me on immigration reform or criminal justice reform, but maybe they agree on progressive taxation, trade and health care. I'm going to take what I can get and if they like Tucker Carlson, I'm still going to try and cultivate common ground.

You can more easily afford to remain a purist on the sidelines in Germany. You have a social safety net. We're collapsing here in the US and we need to be a little more pragmatic.
Amen Phoenix! You've got it. MSNBC and Fucks News both serve the same goal; to divide and conquer and keep people busy with futilities while they are robbing you blind because people don't see...

Have you ever heard about The Seven Mountains of Societal Influence?

The only person who can truly change this world is Jesus. We need the Messiah to come back. And that's actually easier than you would think. If Jesus is indeed buried in Kashmir, if the story that Jesus was a buddhist monk is true, then that would mean that we have more than 50 years of writings from Isa after he supposedly died on the cross. Jesus would be speaking to us from the grave. The return of Jesus, as a Buddhist monk, who will teach us to find peace within ourselves, and protect the earth...

I know it's a crazy idea, but like I said, only Jesus can save the world. Because everyone loves Jesus...

If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

sedziobs

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #188 on: July 07, 2020, 07:26:14 PM »
I have had plenty of racists in Ohio, Missouri, Tennessee  and Georgia say outwardly racists things to me so no, I wouldn’t be surprised.
That's exactly why I think you might be surprised. There are plenty of outwardly racist people in the midwest (and even more in south, where I'm originally from). But my guess is the type of person Sidd was talking about would indeed "help out" people of color. Outward bigotry is most extreme with the queer community in my experience. Conservatives here recoil when encountering a queer person more so than an ethnic minority, and outwardly show disgust in their presence.

Quote
We keep trying to frame racism, as something that’s the duty of the person being racially demeaned, as having the responsibility to solve. It’s not my problem that someone falsely believes they are better than me based on the color of my skin or my country of origin. It’s not my responsibility to talk to a person who finds my act of existence, unnatural or disconcerting.
That's my problem with Ball's populist alliance. I think it's worthwhile for me to encourage class struggle and discourage bigotry, but I don't expect anyone else to feel a responsibility to engage with bigots, especially if they are the target of bigotry. A political alliance is a tacit engagement.


Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #189 on: July 07, 2020, 08:14:29 PM »
I have had plenty of racists in Ohio, Missouri, Tennessee  and Georgia say outwardly racists things to me so no, I wouldn’t be surprised.
That's exactly why I think you might be surprised. There are plenty of outwardly racist people in the midwest (and even more in south, where I'm originally from). But my guess is the type of person Sidd was talking about would indeed "help out" people of color. Outward bigotry is most extreme with the queer community in my experience. Conservatives here recoil when encountering a queer person more so than an ethnic minority, and outwardly show disgust in their presence.

Quote
We keep trying to frame racism, as something that’s the duty of the person being racially demeaned, as having the responsibility to solve. It’s not my problem that someone falsely believes they are better than me based on the color of my skin or my country of origin. It’s not my responsibility to talk to a person who finds my act of existence, unnatural or disconcerting.
That's my problem with Ball's populist alliance. I think it's worthwhile for me to encourage class struggle and discourage bigotry, but I don't expect anyone else to feel a responsibility to engage with bigots, especially if they are the target of bigotry. A political alliance is a tacit engagement.

I think its more helpful to use the term bigotry (which refers to behavior) vs "bigot", which is an identity label meant to smear the whole person.

Bigotry is intolerable and there is no compromise to be made which involves acquiescing to bigotry in any form. But people who practice bigotry are not defined only by that characteristic. We can seek to connect and positively reinforce the better angels of their nature while not compromising our values and still rejecting bigotry.

I don't see Krystal putting out any mandate for everyone to interact with people who have abhorrent behavior. It's her personal choice to encourage people to try and make lemonade from lemons.

We're making progress with bigotry in America at the moment. Monuments are coming down and flags are being changed. Trump gave bigotry a brief window to express itself and he's getting squashed in the polls. Younger generations are less bigoted. Democrats are 10 points ahead of the GOP nationally. Reddit banned r/the_donald. The acceptable places to practice bigotry are shrinking.

As someone living in America, I have to consider the reality of living in a country with a significant proportion of people who Hillary labeled as "deplorable". I have to have hope that some of those deplorable characteristics will fade over time... either via death or assimilation. 

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #190 on: July 08, 2020, 04:10:12 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/videos/2738926443002398

Looks like Arati Kriebich was not able to get over the hump and take down "Trump's favorite Democrat" Gottheimer. But we're still kinda new in the organizing and progressives are rising. The zeitgeist is moving in our direction.

Here is a link to Kriebich's closing message to her volunteers and supporters. It's upbeat, wholesome and inspiring.

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #191 on: July 09, 2020, 01:27:15 AM »
Letter from Varkini Prakash, head of Sunrise Movement, reporting on conclusion of Biden-Sanders climate task force....it looks like the Biden Administration will be supporting the House Democrats recently released climate plan.


You may remember that a couple of months ago, I was nominated by Bernie Sanders, alongside Represenative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and environmental justice leader Catherine Flowers, to serve on a Sanders-Biden Unity Task Force that would help advise the Democratic Platform and Joe Biden's campaign on climate change. I spent the last six weeks in policy discussions fighting for the vision that young people need — for the future we deserve, free from climate chaos. Today, the recommendations of the task force were released, and I wanted to share with you my thougths and experience.

Here’s the topline: we’ve moved the needle a lot, especially on environmental justice and upping Biden's overall ambition. But there’s still more work to do to push Democrats to understand and embrace the scale of the climate crisis, and towards the promise of a truly just society we envision through a Green New Deal. Let's keep building.

I knew that no matter what happened on this task force we would have to keep bringing more people into our movement and use our growing power to continue pushing the Democratic Party and defeat corporate Democrats and Republicans at the ballot box. I never anticipated we would walk out of this process with all the commitments we needed to ensure a livable future for my generation, and I know that there are still influences in the Democratic Party establishment that hold us back. But I also hoped that by participating, I would be able to bring the power our movement has built to deliver progress and commitments we could hold a future Biden administration accountable to, while continuing to push for more of what is necessary. I am pleased to say we did just that. We are now leaving these policy discussions with recommendations that, if fully implemented, will make Joe Biden’s climate plan considerably more ambitious, equitable, and urgent than what was on the table just a few weeks ago. The results of the climate task force — combined with the results of the other task forces on the economy, education, healthcare, criminal justice, and immigration — are pushing Biden’s platform in a significantly more progressive direction that is much more in line with our ultimate vision for a Green New Deal.

Going into the taskforce meetings I had two specific goals:

Push the Biden team to increase their ambition considerably (timelines, benchmarks etc.) and
Insist environmental justice is at the core of everything we do when combating the climate crisis.
Here are some highlights of policies and programs we pushed Biden on, and which were ultimately included in the final product.

Climate Ambition
Achieve 100% clean electricity no later than 2035, 100% clean new buildings by 2030, and standards for 100% clean new vehicles as soon as possible
Historic investments in mass transit, green public housing, and other 21st century sustainable infrastructure projects

Green Jobs
Champion a “Climate Corps” that supports a new generation of young workers to tackle the climate crisis through good-paying jobs that meet labor standards.
Ensure all workers are guaranteed the right to join a union, collectively bargain and are guaranteed labor and health standards in any climate or Green New Deal related jobs and projects
Environmental Justice
Create an Environmental Justice Fund to make historic investments in environmental justice projects (e.g. eliminating legacy pollution from toxic waste sites, remediating lead in paint and pipelines, ensuring safe wastewater and water systems in low income communities and communities of color)
Respect indigenous sovereignty: Commit to upholding regulations in a way that strengthens tribal sovereignty and ensures tribal consent on projects involving land in which tribes own even a fractional interest. Commit to early and ongoing consultation with tribes to identify and work to appropriately mitigate or address concerns regarding major infrastructure projects.
Implement Equity Screen on all major federal spending, policymaking and infrastructure investments, including climate, energy, environmental, housing, and transportation and map disadvantaged communities where funding should be prioritized
Hold polluters accountable
Hold corporate executives personally accountable for affecting the health and safety of workers and communities, such as intentionally hiding or distorting material information, including jail time where merited.
Implement a “climate test” on all new infrastructure to stop fossil fuel expansion
Sustainable Environment
Plant over 16 billion trees by 2050, including in urban areas and prioritizing communities of color and low income communities
Rebuild regional food infrastructure to ensure that local market infrastructure is in place for family farmers to sell a wider range of products and protect small and medium-sized farmers and producers by strengthening enforcement of antitrust laws.
Implement components of a “Blue New Deal”
These are just some of the topline victories. Overall, we moved Biden’s benchmarks around decarbonization to be far more ambitious. Now our metrics will be gauged on timelines of today and tomorrow, of what we will achieve in the next 5, 10, 15 years, not 30 or 50. This is a huge victory.

We vocally advocated for, and were joined by all of the other appointees in shoring up the environmental justice components of Biden’s climate plan. While Biden previously, got a 3/20 on the environmental justice section of our Green New Deal scorecard, this platform is far more responsive to the unequal world we live in, and to addressing the effects of environmental racism, classism and injustice.

I want to be very clear: there are some specifics and commitments we didn’t get, where I wish the platform had gone further, or where I was at odds with what ended up in the document. These are the areas we need to keep pushing.

I wish we’d been able to clarify the scale of investment, jobs, etc. that Joe Biden will achieve regarding proposals like a Climate Corps, or the level of investment we plan to leverage over the next 4-5 years towards building a renewable energy economy. We have a historic opportunity in front of us with tens of millions who need employment in better jobs than they had previously in our broken economy. We have to keep making that opportunity clear. I also really wished we had gone further on the discussion of how we are going to specifically phase out all fossil fuels, and stop promoting false solutions like carbon capture and storage. We needed to stop burning fossil fuels yesterday if staying below 1.5 or 2 degrees Celsius of warming will be more than a pipe dream.

We've got more work to do, and I remain clear-eyed about the road ahead. But given where we started, I’m feeling encouraged by where we’ve landed. I think this process shows that Joe Biden and the people around him are willing to listen and can be moved. That's very different than our current President. Now we must continue to make our voices heard, push him on this plan, hold him accountable to even greater ambition, and ensure that Joe Biden refuses to kowtow to pressures from corporate and GOP influences that are still trying to have his ear.

I don’t have all the answers for where we’ll go moving forward, but at this moment, I feel genuinely hopeful. Not because of the task force, or because of what I expect Biden to do or not do, but because of what our movement has already shifted and made possible. I think it's safe to say, as is, that our movement would have some power and influence in a Biden administration. And I know that we are going to keep growing bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and more unstopabble, until we have the power to win the world that we deserve.

How do I know that? In the last 6 weeks, as I've sat in these Zoom rooms with Congresspeople and former Administrative officials, I've seen teenagers topple a 31 year incumbent Congressman in New York, I've seen young people in Kentucky help a Black man running on a Green New Deal come within inches of toppling the Democratic establishment to take on Mitch McConnell, I've seen our number of hubs continue to grow during a global pandemic, and I've seen us rise powerfully to stand beside other young people in the streets demanding justice for Black Lives.

We've got a ways to go still, but we've also come so far. Let's keep organizing. Let’s keep calling out for the world we deserve. Let’s defeat Trump and his white nationalist fossil fuel buddies this November. Together, I know that one day soon, we will take the first steps towards a Green New Deal for America, sure as the sun rises each morning.

If you'd like, you can read the full platform recommendations here. The DNC platform draft starts on the first page, and the full list of climate recommendations begins on page 42.

It's an honor to be a part of this movement with you all,

Varshini

Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #192 on: July 09, 2020, 01:54:00 AM »
Attached is the full report of all 6 Sanders-Biden unity task force committees. Over 100 pages. The climate section begins on page 42.

https://joebiden.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/UNITY-TASK-FORCE-RECOMMENDATIONS.pdf

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #193 on: July 09, 2020, 07:23:27 AM »
Fun!

Found this YouTube video. This dude sees it exactly how i do it!

Krystal Ball Defends Working with Fascists -- Sorry, "Right-Wing Populists"


Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #194 on: July 09, 2020, 05:33:47 PM »
Fun!

Found this YouTube video. This dude sees it exactly how i do it!

Krystal Ball Defends Working with Fascists -- Sorry, "Right-Wing Populists"



I watched the video.

The thing that strikes me with this outlook is that it attacks Krystal as being completely disingenuous while giving people like Carlson and Enjeti backhanded credit for being completely genuine (in a bad way...as fascists).

I do like that the guy talks about solutions and I would like to turn the discussion around toward the proposed solution to corporate media dominance in the US.

We are a brainwashed country which is slowly moving in the right direction. Younger demographics are much more progressive as a result of getting fucked over by the status quo and turning away from the corporate media cabal.

The question is regarding the best approach to take to try and reprogram people who orbit around identification with a problem and get them to orbit around solutions. The corporate media has herded us into two camps and trained us to think that the other camp is the problem.

The biggest axis of division is actually religion and reproductive rights. Then you have the nexus of religion and other social justice issues like LGBTQ rights and racial pecking order.

As a leftist, what should my strategy be to try and reprogram the belief system of these religious neanderthals? To me, a strategy of complete condemnation doesn't seem to be very effective. I shouldn't expect to win many converts that way. Nope... my idea is to try and educate them and irrigate any seed of good potential that I can find. I want to build a bridge that someone can walk over to my side.

If there is a racist person who doesn't believe in Medicare For All, I've got two separate issues that I'm trying to educate this person on. They aren't likely to evolve on both simultaneously. If we get them to evolve on the health care issue first, that's a step in the right direction IMO. I'm obviously not happy about their continuing racism and will never take a step in that regard to meet them half way, but I will celebrate the step they make toward socialism.

I don't see the practical fear in what Krystal is attempting. There is no movement of Sanders supporters to Trump who is going to get crushed in the next election and as Robinson points out, there is no genuine right populist political movement.

We can walk and chew gum at the same time. This means beating Trump and continuing to be honest about the lesser, but still profound evil of the Democratic party establishment. Krystal's niche is the latter. The vast majority of Sanders supporters have their heads screwed on straight and are
going to be highly motivated to reject anything related to fascism.

Anyway..I'll turn it back to anyone else who wants to discuss their suggestions for deprogramming brainwashed Americans.







blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #195 on: July 09, 2020, 05:57:53 PM »

I watched the video.

The thing that strikes me with this outlook is that it attacks Krystal as being completely disingenuous while giving people like Carlson and Enjeti backhanded credit for being completely genuine (in a bad way...as fascists).

If you found this video interesting, be sure to also watch this one where he makes the point that right-wing populism is fake and not at all genuine:


Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #196 on: July 10, 2020, 01:21:53 AM »
45 minutes is enough. I've heard the message. I don't personally know any Sanders supporters who are voting for Trump.

Biden has done an infinitely better job than Hillary at outreach and Trump is magic when it comes to motivating turnout for Democrats.

The Democrats are going to sweep in November and their governing style will determine if there is any room for another fake right populist like Tom Cotton in 2024. If Biden pushes for the unity task force recommendations, the Dems will kick ass and this whole discussion will be irrelevant. If Biden governs like Obama, then we'll head in a fascist direction. Personally, I think the gravity of the economic and climate situation forces the Democrats to move left so i'm not overly worried.

Tucker's a dick, but I want the people who watch his show to get Medicare For All and a living wage. Let's move on.   

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #197 on: July 10, 2020, 10:39:42 AM »
MOAH FUN!

The Hill in a nutshell.  ;D



Phoenix

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #198 on: July 10, 2020, 02:39:38 PM »

blumenkraft

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Re: The American Progressive Movement
« Reply #199 on: July 11, 2020, 02:30:01 PM »
Glenn Greenwald / Nathan J. Robinson Populism Debate Explained