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Author Topic: George Floyd murder and blowback  (Read 18202 times)

nanning

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #400 on: September 19, 2020, 05:49:10 PM »
Tom, were blumenkraft still here, he would go completely medieval on you for that post. And rightly so imo.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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wili

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #401 on: September 19, 2020, 06:27:29 PM »
Thanks for trying to engage, nanning. Floyd was murdered half way between my house and where my parents live, just a couple k away.

I try not to engage with this kind of despicable display of bigotry, because I it's not worth the time and elevated blood pressure.

I, too, miss blum in these (and many other) cases.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #402 on: September 19, 2020, 08:10:40 PM »
What about going medieval on calling me a racist because I asked for a rebuttal to that article?
I don't know how many people have been killed by police officers acting in the line of duty in the last five years, but according to that site 1,065 officers have died in the line of duty. You asked how George Floyd's mother would feel, so I asked you how Joshua Miktarian's daughter would feel. Don't play the guilt card if you don't want it played against you.
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wili

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #403 on: September 20, 2020, 12:44:59 PM »
I would like to hear from our European colleagues on something.

My impression is that even most arch-conservatives in Europe agree that the police--the public servants paid by the citizens to protect them--should not be regularly brutalizing and killing those same citizens for no cause and generally with impunity.

Is that generally true?


"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #404 on: September 20, 2020, 01:01:17 PM »
I don’t know about Europe but I agree with the statement. It is in specific cases it gets messy, because we would rather release ten guilty than punish one innocent. So were the officers adhering to SOP at the time? Were they afraid for themselves or others? And so on. Also, 99% of police are trying to be good public servants, just like 99% of civilians are just trying to be good citizens. But that still makes for thousand of rogue cops and millions of criminals. And in 2020 there is the general worsening of politics on top of all that.
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wili

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #405 on: September 20, 2020, 01:35:18 PM »
When nearly a hundred police lined up down the street from me and opened fire on peaceful, unarmed protesters exercising their first amendment rights, 0% of them imho were "trying to be good public servants"

At that point, it wasn't part of their job description, essentially

For just once, I would like to see one cop in such circumstances either walk away, or walk over to the other side, hold up his hands, and join the protesters who were similarly holding up their hands as they bravely, unarmed walked toward police who were firing at them
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #406 on: September 20, 2020, 04:57:07 PM »
wili, how many protesters were hurt? Can you give me a news link to this incident?
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wili

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #407 on: September 20, 2020, 06:54:13 PM »
I know people who were in the protest, saw some of this myself, and there was lots of live streaming at the time. It seems to be difficult now to find these videos, but if you try, I'm sure you can find some. People had their eyes put out, as well as other injuries. They seemed to have especially aimed at men's crotches, with some sustaining permanent damage to their testicles.

I have to go now and make ten gallons of chili to feed my neighbors many of whom are now in a deeper crisis than ever.

Best wishes to all in difficult times
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

wili

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #408 on: September 21, 2020, 09:05:18 AM »
https://www.gucmakale.com/wp/massive-study-says-more-than-95-percent-of-all-black-lives-matter-protests-were-peaceful/?

Massive Study Says More Than 95 Percent Of All Black Lives Matter Protests Were Peaceful
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

oren

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #409 on: September 21, 2020, 10:23:18 AM »
Tom, may I suggest something to you? You brought an article and innocently asked for a refutation. I don't think anyone should go medieval on you for it, as you did not realize you were publicizing a biased and malicious source.
(Blum would go medieval, but he would be wrong).
However, it is on you now to remember that the source you read and brought here is indeed biased and malicious. You should stop reading it, and certainly stop posting further articles from it.
I would suggest doing this with all your sources. You shall recognize them by their lies and by their biases. If you want to build a good understanding of the world around you, best stick to the objective sources. Remember - you are what you read.
Just my 2 cents.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #410 on: September 21, 2020, 11:59:00 AM »
I used to go to abortion protests when I lived in Maple Heights and got some abuse (and the opposite) from passerby but police never showed up. I believe in even pro choice protests being held, so certainly protests against racism. Does anyone else have information on the incident wiki described, or any other similar incidents?
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nanning

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #411 on: September 21, 2020, 05:27:00 PM »
Good advice oren, and indeed 'medieval' is a bit over the top. I think it means torture chambers and blum would not do that :)

it's almost as if Tom keeps relighting the 'fire' on purpose. I might post a song in the good music thread about it ;)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #412 on: September 21, 2020, 06:49:06 PM »
I find it interesting that Right wing publications like American Thinker are verboten but Left wing publications like Guardian are the salt of the Earth.
I refuse to be either Left or Right. If polled I say Catholic and if polled by a machine I say Moderate (which really doesn’t describe me). Apparently in this country if you are in favor of helping the poor and are opposed to pollution you are a Far Left Extremist. Also, if you are opposed to abortion and same sex marriage you are a Far Right Extremist. So I am simultaneously a Far Left Extremist and a Far Right Extremist (?????).
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Phil42

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #413 on: September 21, 2020, 08:48:38 PM »
... Does anyone else have information on the incident wiki described, or any other similar incidents?

I am going to assume that you ask in good faith and simply don't find any sources about wili's described and similar incidents. That said, it is really not hard not find information / videos
/ stories / articles of (especially US) police violence. I will list some sources that I found in a quick search. Trigger warning: Some footage may contain extreme police violence / NSFW content.

Videos:
https://www.reddit.com/r/2020PoliceBrutality/top/
https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1266751520055459847
https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/1268621018857213954?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1268621018857213954%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2F2020%2Fjun%2F06%2Fpolice-violence-protests-us-george-floyd

Articles:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men (2015)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/06/police-violence-protests-us-george-floyd
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/16/its-not-about-bad-apples-how-us-police-reforms-have-failed-to-stop-brutality-and-violence
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/us-police-floyd-protests-country-comparisons-intl/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/08/14/gun-violence-black-community-police-brutality-eg-orig.cnn
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/lost-eye-price-protesting-police-brutality-200620215047122.html

Now, I haven't watched all the videos and fully read all the articles myself. I just wanted to provide some links for people that have a hard time getting into this topic. Imo, to deny that police brutality (especially against PoC) is a huge problem, one has to actively close both eyes.

wili

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #414 on: September 21, 2020, 08:52:57 PM »
Thanks, phil

unicorn riot did a bunch of live streaming at the time. I haven't poked around in their archives, but that might be a place to look if anyone is interested

nanning, though 'get medieval' may have started with reference to medieval torture, its overuse and perhaps its use at the end of the comic parody 'Amish Paradise' by Al Yankovich, has made it more often slightly ironic and even comical.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 09:51:56 PM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #415 on: September 28, 2020, 01:14:33 PM »
Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html
Quote
A new study confirms that black men and women are treated differently in the hands of law enforcement. They are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.

But when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.
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nanning

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #416 on: October 03, 2020, 06:00:06 AM »
The controversy around BLM fashion highlights the systemic racism that the movement is trying to change

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/sep/28/why-it-matters-when-black-lives-matter-clothing-is-banned
  by Priya Elan

in the U.S.A. it seems that human rights statements are political
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

wili

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #417 on: October 13, 2020, 06:29:06 PM »
For any who still think the people of Minneapolis burnt down their own city, note that out of the 21 arson defendants, only 1 is a Minneapolis resident. Almost all the rest are from the suburbs, out state or even out of state.

Matthew Lee Rupert had reportedly been arrested 44 times in his hometown of Galesburg, Ill.

“I’m going to Minneapolis tomorrow,” said Rupert, 28, in a Facebook post, hours before allegedly lighting a Minneapolis Sprint store on fire, looting a Home Depot and encouraging others to throw incendiaries at police during the riots. “Who coming. Only goons. I’m renting hotel rooms.”

https://www.twincities.com/2020/10/10/federal-charges-arson-george-floyd-protests-minneapolis-st-paul/
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: George Floyd murder and blowback
« Reply #418 on: October 13, 2020, 06:31:22 PM »
Why do these idiots do things like post on Facebook the crimes they are going to commit? How do they expect to get away with it?
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