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Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1400 on: January 24, 2019, 03:03:36 PM »
Tropicana Orange Juice in Glass Bottles? Big Brands to Test Refillable Containers
Quote
The world’s biggest makers of shampoo, detergent and packaged food will test selling their products in reusable containers, adopting a milkman-style model to address mounting concerns about plastic waste.

Procter & Gamble Co. , Nestlé SA, PepsiCo Inc. and Unilever PLC are among 25 companies that, this summer, will start selling some products in glass, steel and other containers designed to be returned, cleaned and refilled.

Shoppers who the companies select for the trial will be able to order hundreds of products—including Nestlé’s Häagen-Dazs ice cream and Clorox Co.’s wet wipes—from a website for home delivery. Products arrive in a reusable tote with no extra packaging. Once finished, users schedule a pickup for empty containers to be cleaned and refilled. They can sign up for a subscription-based service that replenishes products once empty containers are returned. TerraCycle will handle delivery, returns and cleaning.

The products will cost roughly the same as the versions in single-use containers, but users will also have to pay a deposit of $1-$10 per container. Shipping charges start at roughly $20, decreasing with every item added. …

The Wall Street Journal via Apple News:  https://apple.news/Aw5xrjmM2Sp6fdxLHFsiPhQ
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1401 on: January 25, 2019, 05:56:21 PM »
The End Of Plastic Cutlery, Plates And Straws: EU Market Says Goodbye To Single-Use Plastic Products
Jan 22, 2019
Quote
Europe wants to lead the fight against plastic pollution. On January 18th EU member states confirmed the provisional agreement reached between the presidency of the Council and the European Parliament on a new directive to introduce restrictions on certain single-use plastic products. In 2021 European citizens will say goodbye to plastic cutlery, plastic plates and plastic straws among other products.

The aim of the directive, which is part of the European Plastics Strategy, is to protect the environment and reduce marine litter by avoiding the emission of 3.4 million tonnes of CO2. However, it should be noted the importance of the economic benefits that the new regulation will bring: the directive may avoid environmental damages which would cost the equivalent of €22 billion ($24.9 billion) by 2030 and save consumers a projected €6.5 billion ($7.38 billion). The Spanish Government has already announced its commitment to comply with the upcoming directive. ...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anagarciavaldivia/2019/01/22/the-end-of-plastic-cutlery-plates-and-straws-eu-market-says-goodbye-to-single-use-plastic-products/#2fcc3cf15656
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

kassy

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1402 on: January 25, 2019, 07:43:23 PM »
Lets ban cigarette filters too:

Cigarette butts are the most common form of anthropogenic (man-made) litter in the world, as approximately 5.6 trillion cigarettes are smoked every year worldwide.[23] Of those it is estimated that 4.5 trillion cigarette butts become litter every year.[24] The cellulose acetate fibers used as the predominant filter material do not readily biodegrade because of the acetyl groups on the cellulose backbone which in itself can quickly be degraded by various microorganisms employing cellulases.[25] A normal life span of a discarded filter is thought to be up to 15 years.

Especially since they have no positive effect (see link)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_filter
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

TerryM

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1403 on: January 25, 2019, 08:16:36 PM »
Lets ban cigarette filters too:

Cigarette butts are the most common form of anthropogenic (man-made) litter in the world, as approximately 5.6 trillion cigarettes are smoked every year worldwide.[23] Of those it is estimated that 4.5 trillion cigarette butts become litter every year.[24] The cellulose acetate fibers used as the predominant filter material do not readily biodegrade because of the acetyl groups on the cellulose backbone which in itself can quickly be degraded by various microorganisms employing cellulases.[25] A normal life span of a discarded filter is thought to be up to 15 years.

Especially since they have no positive effect (see link)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_filter


Possibly exceeding the life span of their most dedicated users? ::)
Terry

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1404 on: January 25, 2019, 09:43:41 PM »
Ramen!
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1405 on: January 25, 2019, 09:54:47 PM »
In the midwest the birds pickup a lot of them. They use it to line their nests, apparently they like the fact that nicotine in the cigarette filters kills a lot of the insects that suck on birds. What it does to the birds, i dunno, but they pick em up in nesting season.

I've seen some dickhead drive down an alley, roll down his window and dump his ashtray on the ground. B4 i could get out there with a broom and a dustpan, they had been cleared by the local birds, leaving just the ash.

sidd

TerryM

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1406 on: January 26, 2019, 02:32:31 AM »
Wow!
That calls for a huge leap in avian cognition.


Do you think it more likely that fledglings raised in close proximity to insect repellent filters are more likely to survive, that these survivors recognize that cigarette filters smell like their own childhood bower, then build their avian nurseries to please their olfactory sense of how a proper nest should smell.


Social Darwinism writ with a stinking quill.


Dickheads Dumping Ashtrays to Save our Songbirds.
And you would have swept it all away.


For Shame. ;D
Terry

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1407 on: January 26, 2019, 06:54:02 AM »
I am told by friends in Europe that birds using cigarette filters in nests is seen there also. I suspect this is just natural selection at work, that such behaviour has some reproductive/fledgling survival advantage and can be transmitted to descendants (not necessarily genetically, but perhaps through teaching/learning across generations), and further, the benefits of that behaviour outweighs the bad effects of nicotine on birds.

Some species line their nests by picking down out of their own breasts. That sounds painful, so i suspect finding something soft to form part of the lining might attract. Not to mention the bug killing properties.

Now that i think about it, i don't know what the exact effects of nicotine on avian physiology and growth are. I know it is very strong poison for most forms of animal life, but whether it stimulates or suppresses hunger or is addictive in birds as in humans i do not know. Time to walk down the block to the vet one of these days.

Parrots of my acquaintance seemed neutral around cigarette and pipe and marijuana smoke.

sidd
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 07:00:42 AM by sidd »

johnm33

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1408 on: January 26, 2019, 01:51:19 PM »
We've had trouble eliminating mites from our chicken coop[s*] maybe I'll grow a little tobacco this year, add it to the woodshavings. Meanwhile snuff?
* we rotate there use

Archimid

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1409 on: January 26, 2019, 02:32:15 PM »
Boyan Slat said in a phone interview from his office in Rotterdam, Netherlands, that the screen would be towed about 800 miles to Hawaii. Once there, it will either be repaired or loaded onto a barge to return to its home port of Alameda, California. ...

They only failed if they stopped trying. If they take it home, learn from their mistakes and improve upon the design, the next time around it will be better.

An internet quote attributed to Abe Lincoln.

"Give me six hours to chop a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the ax"
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Klondike Kat

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1410 on: January 26, 2019, 02:57:51 PM »
I am told by friends in Europe that birds using cigarette filters in nests is seen there also. I suspect this is just natural selection at work, that such behaviour has some reproductive/fledgling survival advantage and can be transmitted to descendants (not necessarily genetically, but perhaps through teaching/learning across generations), and further, the benefits of that behaviour outweighs the bad effects of nicotine on birds.

Some species line their nests by picking down out of their own breasts. That sounds painful, so i suspect finding something soft to form part of the lining might attract. Not to mention the bug killing properties.

Now that i think about it, i don't know what the exact effects of nicotine on avian physiology and growth are. I know it is very strong poison for most forms of animal life, but whether it stimulates or suppresses hunger or is addictive in birds as in humans i do not know. Time to walk down the block to the vet one of these days.

Parrots of my acquaintance seemed neutral around cigarette and pipe and marijuana smoke.

sidd

I suspect the effects would be minimal (if any).  All the hazards associated with cigarettes deal with actually smoking them and inhaling their poison. 

Neven

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1411 on: January 26, 2019, 04:35:07 PM »
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1412 on: January 26, 2019, 05:58:50 PM »
Pentagon Fears Confirmed: Climate Change Leads to More Wars and Refugees

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A Pentagon report published on Tuesday in Washington warned that rising seas and more frequent wild fires threaten U.S. security.

The peer-reviewed study, “Climate, conflict and forced migration,” published in Elsevier Ltd.’s Global Environmental Change, analyzed sprawling data sets covering drought, battle deaths, ethnicity and political systems. Those were then combined with geographic information about refugee flows. The researchers discovered that deteriorating climate conditions played a statistically significant role” in the recent waves of migrants fleeing Middle East conflict.
Link >> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/pentagon-fears-confirmed-climate-change-leads-to-war-refugees


Guess who still tells people it's a hoax.

gerontocrat

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1413 on: January 26, 2019, 07:42:12 PM »
Pentagon Fears Confirmed: Climate Change Leads to More Wars and Refugees

Quote
A Pentagon report published on Tuesday in Washington warned that rising seas and more frequent wild fires threaten U.S. security.

The peer-reviewed study, “Climate, conflict and forced migration,” published in Elsevier Ltd.’s Global Environmental Change, analyzed sprawling data sets covering drought, battle deaths, ethnicity and political systems. Those were then combined with geographic information about refugee flows. The researchers discovered that deteriorating climate conditions played a statistically significant role” in the recent waves of migrants fleeing Middle East conflict.
Link >> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/pentagon-fears-confirmed-climate-change-leads-to-war-refugees

Guess who still tells people it's a hoax.
Full paper open access and can be downloaded as a pdf at
https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S0959378018301596?token=01A752D8E79BBF9CDF4886AEA15DEE2AA46127A2103304D4B5A0944D55BFD4728B9AFBDC37140459A2FA301CA800D16E
Great graphic in the paper on world asylum flows.
They are even trying to model it using simultaneous equations.

ps: Note how migration flows to North America are relatively low c.f. many other regions.

pps: Note that the paper does not consider internal migration within a country. E.g. a little area in Charleston has been abandoned - the people have left, the houses have been bought and the intention is to return the land to swamp. They are trying the same sort of thing along part of the New Jersey shore?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

El Cid

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1414 on: January 26, 2019, 08:15:32 PM »
Well, you don't need fancy equations to understand that when people have no food/houses, etc. (because of a changing climate for example or for any other reason), they go and try to take it form other people people. It's called history.


gerontocrat

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1415 on: January 28, 2019, 08:29:07 PM »
Lakes are marginal environments for ice. Seems a small change in temperatures may have a big effect

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47029482

Lakes 'skating on thin ice' as warming limits freeze
Quote
Thousands of lakes across the Northern Hemisphere are set to lose their winter ice as global temperatures rise, say scientists.

Their new study suggests that, within a generation, over 35,000 lakes will lose their winter cover.

The researchers involved say the disappearance will have significant implications for millions of people living near these bodies of water. It could also pose a threat to supplies of drinking water and to fish species.
Right now some 15,000 lakes in Canada, the US and northern parts of Europe experience intermittent ice cover during the winter months. This means that they freeze in the colder winters but remain ice free when winters are warmer.
This is already posing problems for communities living in these regions who rely on ice roads that cross lakes for food supplies and social connection.

Lake ice is also seen by scientists as an important long-term indicator of climate change and one of the world's resources most threatened by rising temperatures.

Now, in what researchers believe is the most comprehensive analysis of lake ice loss, researchers say that many more lakes are set to go ice free in winter.

If the world manages to keep the rise in global temperatures to 2C, the study suggests that the number of lakes experiencing intermittent ice will increase to over 35,000. This may have implications for 394 million people who live within an hour of their shores.

"We're not taking about lakes getting a little warmer. We are talking about lake ice being gone in the winter," said Dr Catherine O'Reilly, a co-author on the study from Illinois State University.

"Our children and grandchildren would not see something we have taken for granted."

In a worst case scenario, where the world warmed by 8C by the end of this century, the number of lakes impacted would be 230,400.

The authors stress that rather than being some long term prediction of the future implications of warming, this melting is happening now.

"It won't require that much warming for these impacts to be felt," said lead author Dr Sapna Sharma, from York University in Toronto, Canada.

"It's happening right now - Lake Superior for example is no longer freezing every winter. The Great Lakes are experiencing it. We have examples from all around the world of lakes that are experiencing this big change and we predict its going to occur in a lot more lakes in the future."
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1416 on: January 29, 2019, 05:47:15 PM »
Warming Seas Increase Frequency of Extreme Storms
https://phys.org/news/2019-01-seas-frequency-extreme-storms.html

Quote
A new NASA study shows that warming of the tropical oceans due to climate change could lead to a substantial increase in the frequency of extreme rain storms by the end of the century.

... They found that extreme storms—those producing at least 0.12 inches (3 millimeters) of rain per hour over a 16-mile (25-kilometer) area—formed when the sea surface temperature was higher than about 82 degrees Fahrenheit (28 degrees Celsius). They also found that, based on the data, 21 percent more storms form for every 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit (1 degree Celsius) that ocean surface

Currently accepted climate models project that with a steady increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (1 percent per year), tropical ocean surface temperatures may rise by as much as 4.8 degrees Fahrenheit (2.7 degrees Celsius) by the end of the century. The study team concludes that if this were to happen, we could expect the frequency of extreme storms to increase by as much as 60 percent by that time.

Hartmut H. Aumann et al. Increased Frequency of Extreme Tropical Deep Convection: AIRS Observations and Climate Model Predictions, Geophysical Research Letters (2018).
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1417 on: January 30, 2019, 04:07:26 PM »
Investors Join Calls for a Food Revolution to Fight Climate Change
Quote
An influential group of investors has added its voice to a growing chorus of health professionals and scientists who are calling for radical changes to agriculture and food consumption in an effort to fight climate change, malnutrition and obesity.
...
The drumbeat for change in food and nutrition gained volume this month with the release of a detailed plan by an international commission organized by the prestigious medical journal The Lancet. The plan urges a major overhaul in food production and diets, or what one of the report's authors called "nothing less than a new global agricultural revolution."

A second Lancet-convened commission, this one focused on obesity, issued a report on Sunday arguing for an international treaty to address global diets and climate change, similar to a landmark 2005 global treaty that aimed to cut tobacco use.

Then on Tuesday, 80 investor groups representing more than $6.5 trillion in assets called on six of the largest fast food companies, including McDonald's and the corporate owners of KFC and Pizza Hut, to set targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions from their meat and dairy supply chains.
...
The Lancet Commision on Obesity, made up of more than 40 experts from 14 countries, says that, while its original mandate was to address obesity, it reframed its mission to address the pandemics of obesity, malnutrition and climate change—or what it called "the triple-burden challenges of The Global Syndemic." ...
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/29012019/global-food-system-shocks-climate-change-mcdonalds-obesity-malnutrition-investors-lancet-scientists
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1418 on: January 30, 2019, 05:30:31 PM »
More Extreme and More Frequent: Drought and Aridity in the 21st Century
https://phys.org/news/2019-01-extreme-frequent-drought-aridity-21st.html

New research by a team from Columbia University continues in the vein of alarming runaway feedback loops with results from their recent study published in Science Advances.

The open-access study, "Projected increases in intensity, frequency, and terrestrial carbon costs of compound drought and aridity events," shows that the compound effects of soil moisture (SM) and vapor pressure deficit (VPD) on terrestrial carbon uptake is greater than the effect of either variable when considered separately, and that these two conditions tend to mutually reinforce each other.

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau5740
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sebastian Jones

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1419 on: February 08, 2019, 04:10:25 AM »
I think we have seen elsewhere on the forum the articles about how the Bering Sea is warming, and more specifically how the divide between colder arctic ecosystems and warmer, pacific ecosystems has moved, in summer, north to the Bering strait. This has real consequences on fish habitat, as arctic cod move from the Bering to the Chukchi and pollock- the really big industrial fishery- move north. One problem with this is that the Bering is narrower as you go north, so there is less space, less habitat for pollock as they are chased north. The attached article may be the first indicator that the consequences are being felt by the pollock fishery.
https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/02/06/as-the-bering-sea-warms-this-skipper-is-chasing-pollock-to-new-places/

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1420 on: February 08, 2019, 08:30:55 AM »
These sons of bitches are at it again, just like with roundup, this time with dicamba. Get one farmer buy it, all his neighbours got to. All the time they swear up an down that the resistance wont transfer into other plants. And that the long term effects are benign.

And then they got the farmers locked into seed, fertilizer,herbicide. And the little live critters that live in the runoff. And all the other plants exposed.

And in a decade or so, when it all goes to hell, well they'll be right there saying buy our new improved product.

I get so mad sometimes. I already see dicamba comin my way.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/02/07/691979417/is-fear-driving-sales-of-dicamba-proof-soybeans

sidd



vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1421 on: February 08, 2019, 07:04:57 PM »
'Hundreds of Thousands' of Cattle Feared Dead After Australia Floods
https://phys.org/news/2019-02-hundreds-thousands-cattle-dead-australia.html

Hundreds of thousands of cattle weakened from a severe drought are feared to have died in record-breaking floods in northeastern Australia, authorities said Friday, as they stepped up efforts to feed surviving livestock.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk Friday spoke of seeing a "sea of dead cattle" when she toured one region on Thursday.

"To see the cattle spread across these yards, not moving, it made you feel sick in the stomach," she told national broadcaster ABC.

"This will be heartbreaking to these communities that have been experiencing years of drought, only to see that turn into a torrential inundation which threatens now their very livelihoods in the complete other direction."

----------------
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1422 on: February 11, 2019, 04:24:04 PM »
Impossible Burger on more menus, but America's beef industry isn't budging
Quote
The beef industry puts hundreds of thousands of dollars into political campaigns. As shown on Open Secrets, during the 2018 election cycle, livestock companies gave $278,656 to Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, $46,897 to Rep. Jim Costa, D-Calif., and $46,678 to Sen. Martha McSally, R-Ariz., to name a few campaigns.

When the 2015 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee — comprised of health experts who plan the dietary guidelines for the USDA — proposed putting sustainability in the guidelines, the beef industry knew whom to turn to.

“They went straight to Congress and Congress instructed the secretary of agriculture not to have sustainability in the dietary guidelines,” Nestle said. ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/impossible-burger-more-menus-america-s-beef-industry-isn-t-n969576
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vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1423 on: February 11, 2019, 04:35:07 PM »
Regenerative Agriculture Can Make Farmers Stewards of the Land Again
https://phys.org/news/2019-02-regenerative-agriculture-farmers-stewards.html


“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1424 on: February 15, 2019, 12:23:14 AM »
Conley at wsws: Roundup raises cancer risk but 40%

" a 41 percent increased risk of developing cancer for people who have frequent exposure."

"Monsanto—the maker of the widely-used weedkiller Roundup, which contains glyphosate—and the EPA continue to deny that the chemical causes cancer"

"Three of the study authors were tapped by the EPA as board members for a 2016 scientific advisory panel on glyphosate. The new paper was published by the journal Mutation Research /Reviews in Mutation Research, whose editor in chief is EPA scientist David DeMarini."

Gee, the EPA's own scientists are calling them out. I suppose they'll just get new scientists.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/02/14/analysis-shows-exposure-monsantos-glyphosate-based-roundup-increases-cancer-risk


sidd

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1425 on: February 15, 2019, 06:05:48 PM »
'We have death and devastation at every turn': the flood massacre of Queensland cattle
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/13/we-have-death-and-devastation-at-every-turn-the-flood-massacre-of-queensland-cattle

Cattle farmer Jodi Keough told Seven News she expected to lose half her herd, adding that if authorities do nothing "we're talking about a possible collapse of a primary industry in Australia."

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Archimid

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1426 on: February 16, 2019, 01:58:09 PM »
1.5C warmer will not be safe. The next .5C happens with less ice, warmer oceans and highly deteriorated Earth systems.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Gray-Wolf

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1427 on: February 16, 2019, 06:40:42 PM »
Hi Archimid!

I believe the 'head of steam' we already have will take us beyond 1.5c even if all our GHG outputs ceased tomorrow?

I also believe that the pollution that China produced through the 1990's/2000's was poorly modelled in both the scale of dimming it drove and the now 'drop out' of those particulates/sulphates.

So we are now playing 'catch up' to where Global temps ought to be had this past 'dimmed period' never existed.

I worry that we had already gotten close to too many 'tipping points' in local systems over the last period of accelerated warming not to now see some 'cascade impacts' begin to present over the coming years?

KOYAANISQATSI

ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
 
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS

Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1428 on: February 16, 2019, 06:57:45 PM »
”...hitching the company’s wagon to athletes. They get us to buy shoes we don’t need and movies not worth watching. He believes if enough of them buy into his brand of healthful eating, it can spark a movement.”

In the NBA, fake-meat diets are changing the game
https://www.latimes.com/sports/nba/la-sp-nba-vegan-diet-20190214-story.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

rboyd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1429 on: February 16, 2019, 11:44:08 PM »
Most fake meat is highly processed food, so more like fake virtue signalling than getting real health benefits. Stopped eating it once I realized. Just eat vegetables and pulses in their natural form, and add a bit of non-farmed fish or lean meat if you must - just like our ancestors.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1430 on: February 17, 2019, 01:09:26 AM »
'We have death and devastation at every turn': the flood massacre of Queensland cattle
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/13/we-have-death-and-devastation-at-every-turn-the-flood-massacre-of-queensland-cattle

Cattle farmer Jodi Keough told Seven News she expected to lose half her herd, adding that if authorities do nothing "we're talking about a possible collapse of a primary industry in Australia."

[video]



The beef farmers got what they asked for.
The real massacre is something completely different: Deforestation plus ensuing siltation of the Great Barrier Reef.

Quote
Queensland underwent a dramatic surge in tree clearing – with the heaviest losses in Great Barrier Reef catchments – in the year leading up to the Palaszczuk government’s thwarted bid to restore protections.

Figures released on Thursday showed a 33% rise in clearing to almost 400,000 hectares in 2015-16, meaning Queensland now has two-thirds the annual rate of deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/05/alarming-rise-in-queensland-tree-clearing-as-400000-hectares-stripped

Same news one year later:
Quote
New official data shows clearing of forests near and along the Great Barrier Reef continued despite Australian government pledges to protect the natural wonder, with at least 152,000 hectares felled in 2016-17 alone.

Forests covering 770,000ha – an area about three times the size of the Australian Capital Territory – in the reef catchment zone have been bulldozed over the past five years. The area cleared last year was larger in size than that covered by new re-growth.

Jessica Panegyres, a nature campaigner with the Wilderness Society, said it showed Australia should be considered a global deforestation hotspot on a par with the Amazon and Indonesia.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/04/great-barrier-reef-forest-three-times-size-of-act-cleared-in-past-five-years
(my emphs)

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1431 on: February 17, 2019, 08:46:00 AM »
Enjoy your mass produced hamburger: pink slime be delicious

https://news.yahoo.com/usda-reclassifies-pink-slime-ground-182230322.html

sidd

Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1432 on: February 17, 2019, 03:57:20 PM »
Most fake meat is highly processed food, so more like fake virtue signalling than getting real health benefits. Stopped eating it once I realized. Just eat vegetables and pulses in their natural form, and add a bit of non-farmed fish or lean meat if you must - just like our ancestors.

The thing is, most people won’t take your logical steps based solely on the fact it’s the better way.  In contrast, the social ‘pull’ of celebrities or sportsfolk touting substitute meat products will nudge many fans in that direction.  The “I just like meat” crowd can feel they are just being cool, while they are painlessly (and perhaps unknowingly) lowering their carbon footprint.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1433 on: February 17, 2019, 03:58:08 PM »
sunflower sea stars

West Coast’s biggest starfish vanishing amid disease, warming oceans, study finds
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/starfish-slaughter-along-west-coast-imperils-biggest-starfish-of-all-as-oceans-warm/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1434 on: February 17, 2019, 06:07:27 PM »
The Sunflower star die-off and heat related disease were posted on the Holocene extinction thread Jan. 29 and Jan. 30 posts # 238 & 239.  This is my world and I have been watching for several decades as things degrade. We had a very similar starfish die-in the 82-83 El Niño and the 97-98 event. The starfish did recover but as the oceans continue to warm they will eventually hit thresholds that remove them from the nearshore ecosystem and their losses will cascade in sad and damaging ways. Heat, rapid ecological transitions, disease ,death, and truncated ecosystems.
 There are terrestrial parallels , insects, birds, reptiles , amphibians, either directly threatened by heat resulting in stress and disease or affected by the loss of their primary food supplies because heat change when insects bloomed and when migrations and nesting of birds arrived at their nesting sites.
 This is my world , the oceans, riparian farmland animals that I have known for my entire life .Vanishing before my eyes. I raise farm animals and I deal with them when they are sick. We don't have the knowledge , ability or skill sets to Doctor our wild environs. Most people are so damn removed from nature they never even see what is happening . They have no empathy for those things they haven't lived with, they feel no pain. The vanishing insect populations are a good example. Even those few people who happen to notice that the bug splats on their windshields have disappeared couldn't really give a crap. Dulled by their fancy machines, the glowing computer screens, their myopic politics, or just their stupidity. Nature will repay us for our vanity , heat and changes in hydrological cycles will deliver old vicious opportunistic scourges upon us too as our synthetic monitory utopia transforms into hell on earth.   
 Technology is death my friends because is removes us as active participants in our living world. Those who survive with know again the stars at night, will know again the terrible tolls of childbirth and childhood disease but the planet will again have a chance at healing from a species emotionally unprepared to deal with their strange sad attempts at taking the reins of gods.
 I am angry too Zizek , no swearing, no personal attacks . Rage against  the machine !  Sadly I am guilty too in my comforts , we all are . It defines tragic but your generation Zizek has been captured more than mine by this computer screen , know that too.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1435 on: February 18, 2019, 02:34:32 PM »
A Forest Garden With 500 Edible Plants Could Lead to a Sustainable Future


vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1436 on: February 20, 2019, 07:53:38 PM »
Thanks for the video b_lumenkraft (... It's what I'm trying to do in my yard - on a smaller scale)

---------------------------------

Earth 140 Years Away From Reaching Carbon Levels Not Seen for 56 Million Years
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190220112221.htm

Total human carbon dioxide emissions could match those of Earth's last major greenhouse warming event in fewer than five generations, new research finds.

A new study finds humans are pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a rate nine to 10 times higher than the greenhouse gas was emitted during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), a global warming event that occurred roughly 56 million years ago.

The results suggest if carbon emissions continue to rise, the total amount of carbon dioxide injected into the atmosphere since humans started burning fossil fuels could equal the amount released during the PETM as soon as 2159.

"The fact that we could reach warming equivalent to the PETM very quickly, within the next few hundred years, is terrifying," DeSantis said.

The findings suggest scientists may not be able to predict the environmental or biological changes that will happen in the coming years based on what happened during the PETM because today's warming is occurring so much faster, according to DeSantis. What makes predictions harder is that today's climate starts from a cooler baseline than the PETM and the species that inhabit Earth are different than those of 56 million years ago.

Philip D. Gingerich. Temporal Scaling of Carbon Emission and Accumulation Rates: Modern Anthropogenic Emissions Compared to Estimates of PETM-Onset Accumulation. Paleoceanography and Paleoclimatology, 2019
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

b_lumenkraft

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1437 on: February 20, 2019, 07:57:50 PM »
Oh, cool Vox_mundi,

wishing you good luck. Keep us updated.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1438 on: February 20, 2019, 08:46:54 PM »
Earth 140 Years Away From Reaching Carbon Levels Not Seen for 56 Million Years
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190220112221.htm

Total human carbon dioxide emissions could match those of Earth's last major greenhouse warming event in fewer than five generations, new research finds.

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1439 on: February 20, 2019, 09:27:09 PM »
Asian Millers Turn to Argentina for Wheat as Drought Hits Australian Output
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asia-argentina-wheat/asian-millers-turn-to-argentina-for-wheat-as-drought-hits-australian-output-idUSKCN1Q90JR

(Reuters) - Asian wheat millers are snapping up cargoes of the grain from Argentina to arrive in the first-half of the year, typically peak-export season for traditional supplier Australia where a second year of drought is hitting production.

Indonesia, the world’s second-largest wheat importer, has booked close to 1 million tonnes of Argentinian wheat for arrival between February and April, while Malaysia and Vietnam have also contracted shipments, according to estimates from two Singapore-based traders who were involved in some of the deals.

... “This is largely because Australia is absent from the market.”

Australia’s wheat production fell to an 11-year low during the 2018/19 season, the country’s chief commodity forecaster said this week, after an east coast drought wilted crops in the world’s No. 4 exporter.

Asia is the world’s biggest wheat consumer and importer.



--------------------------------------

Crude-by-rail plan won't impact grain shipments, Notley says, but farmers still fearful
https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/crude-by-rail-plan-wont-impact-grain-shipments-notley-says-but-farmers-still-fearful

Premier Rachel Notley assured farmers Tuesday that her government’s plan to ship up to an additional 120,000 barrels of oil per day on the rails by mid-2020 will not interfere with their ability to get grain and other agricultural products to market.

However, farm groups — who say their industry has lost billions of dollars in sales in the past five years due to two separate rail shipment logjams — remain skeptical that the railways can meet Alberta’s oil shipment demands without negatively affecting the movement of crops.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1440 on: February 21, 2019, 09:46:21 PM »
Plant-based tuna aims to be the future of fish — without the smell
Quote
“It’s almost identical to tuna. It’s basically right on par when it comes to fat, protein and omega-3s. The biggest difference is ours is mercury-free,” Sarno explained, adding that the brand’s target demographic is consumers aiming to diversify their protein intake.

Good Catch is the latest brand to anchor down on the alternative seafood market. Atlantic Natural Foods debuted plant-based tuna last year comprised of soy flour.

One-third of all Americans, and 37% of millennials, plan to buy more plant-based products over the next year, according to Mintel’s 2018 Summer Food & Drink Trends report. And while the majority of North American consumers still opt for meat as their primary source of protein, 23% of eaters want more plant-based options on shelves, according to data from Nielsen.

It’s not just about veganism or vegetarianism, 86% of plant-based product users are neither vegetarians nor vegan. Consumers want more protein in their diets,” said Darren Seifer, a food consumption industry analyst at NPD Group.

“We hear people talk about sustainability and animal welfare as reasons for eating plant-based burgers. When it comes to fish, people concerned with mercury levels and if it’s wild-caught or farm-raised might be some of the reasons why they’d be using plant-based alternatives. With more than 60% of us saying we want more protein in our diet, that’s potentially a large market.”
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/plant-based-tuna-aims-to-be-the-future-of-fish-without-the-smell-2019-02-21
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1441 on: February 22, 2019, 05:17:29 AM »
World's Food Supply Under 'Severe Threat' From Loss of Biodiversity
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/feb/21/worlds-food-supply-under-severe-threat-from-loss-of-biodiversity



The world’s capacity to produce food is being undermined by humanity’s failure to protect biodiversity, according to the first UN study of the plants, animals and micro-organisms that help to put meals on our plates.

The stark warning was issued by the Food and Agriculture Organisation after scientists found evidence the natural support systems that underpin the human diet are deteriorating around the world as farms, cities and factories gobble up land and pump out chemicals.


Quote
... “Around the world, the library of life that has evolved over billions of years – our biodiversity – is being destroyed, poisoned, polluted, invaded, fragmented, plundered, drained and burned at a rate not seen in human history,” Ireland’s president, Michael Higgins, said at a biodiversity conference in Dublin on Thursday. “If we were coal miners we’d be up to our waists in dead canaries.” 



Over the last two decades, approximately 20% of the earth’s vegetated surface has become less productive, said the report, launched on Friday.

It noted a “debilitating” loss of soil biodiversity, forests, grasslands, coral reefs, mangroves, seagrass beds and genetic diversity in crop and livestock species. In the oceans, a third of fishing areas are being overharvested.

Many species that are indirectly involved in food production, such as birds that eat crop pests and mangrove trees that help to purify water, are less abundant than in the past, noted the study, which collated global data, academic papers and reports by the governments of 91 countries.

It found 63% of plants, 11% of birds, and 5% of fish and fungi were in decline. Pollinators, which provide essential services to three-quarters of the world’s crops, are under threat. As well as the well-documented decline of bees and other insects, the report noted that 17% of vertebrate pollinators, such as bats and birds, were threatened with extinction.

Once lost, the species that are critical to our food systems cannot be recovered, it said. “This places the future of our food and the environment under severe threat.”



Although consumers did not yet notice any impact when they went shopping, the authors of the report said that could change.

“The supermarkets are full of food, but it is mostly imports from other countries and there are not many varieties. The reliance on a small number of species means they are more susceptible to disease outbreaks and climate change. It renders food production less resilient,” warned Julie Bélanger, the coordinator of the report.

UN FAO Report: The State of the World’s Biodiversity for Food and Agriculture
http://www.fao.org/state-of-biodiversity-for-food-agriculture/en/

----------------------------
Women Custodians of Biodiversity Hold Key to Food Security   
https://dw.com/en/women-custodians-of-biodiversity-hold-key-to-food-security/a-47513319

Women account for around half the agricultural labor force across much of the developing world, most especially in sub-Saharan Africa. These farmers, livestock keepers, fishers and forest managers are vital to promoting biodiversity for food and agriculture, says a landmark study by the UN Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) released this week.

... Through their deep knowledge of local plants and grains, empowered women can better respond to food shortages caused by climate change-induced drought and erratic rainfall.

In many instances, this "knowledge intensive" understanding of the local food landscape, helped by a highly nuanced appreciation of regional weather patterns, has been lost by male farmers who Manicad says are often focused on commercialized crops that contribute to biodiversity loss.

... "Humankind has throughout its entire history reduced biodiversity," Irene Hoffmann, Secretary, Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture at FAO.

By way of example, Europe's biodiverse agricultural systems peaked around the 1750s — "when you had relatively small-scale agriculture before intensification and artificial inputs came into place" — such systems still prevail in many developing countries.

... The UN agency estimates that of 570 million farms worldwide, 475 million are less than two hectares (roughly 5 acres) in area, yet only occupy 12 percent of total agricultural land. As a result, biodiversity for food and agriculture is gradually being shut out by large-scale monoculture farming 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 12:13:15 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1442 on: February 24, 2019, 09:04:49 PM »
Conley at wsws: Roundup raises cancer risk but 40%

" a 41 percent increased risk of developing cancer for people who have frequent exposure."

"Monsanto—the maker of the widely-used weedkiller Roundup, which contains glyphosate—and the EPA continue to deny that the chemical causes cancer" ...

Bayer Faces Second Trial Over Roundup Cancer Risk
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bayer-glyphosate-lawsuit/bayer-faces-second-trial-over-alleged-roundup-cancer-risk-idUSKCN1QD0I8

Bayer AG is set to face a second U.S. jury over allegations that its popular glyphosate-based weed killer Roundup causes cancer, six months after the company’s share price was rocked by a $289 million verdict in California state court.

A lawsuit by California resident Edwin Hardeman against the company was scheduled to begin on Monday in federal rather than state court. The trial is also a test case for a larger litigation. More than 760 of the 9,300 Roundup cases nationwide are consolidated in the federal court in San Francisco that is hearing Hardeman’s case.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1443 on: February 24, 2019, 11:48:27 PM »
Worms going away:  "rare or absent in two out of five fields" in the UK

https://www.fwi.co.uk/arable/land-preparation/soils/major-survey-finds-worms-are-rare-or-absent-in-20-of-fields

I see the same in the midwest. Decades of corn-soy rotations and fertilizer and herbicide and pesticide has left the soil lifeless.

sidd

Martin Gisser

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1444 on: February 25, 2019, 03:23:29 AM »
If there were worms there would be no need for plowing. -- Stupid as it sounds, this is agriculture since the invention of the plowshare.

"Fix nitrogen nonviolently" -- Vandana Shiva

In this recent interview Vandana explains all you need to know about the 21st century in less than half an hour:


vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1445 on: February 25, 2019, 07:40:02 PM »
A World Without Clouds
https://www.carbonbrief.org/extreme-co2-levels-could-trigger-clouds-tipping-point-and-8c-of-global-warming

A state-of-the-art supercomputer simulation indicates that a feedback loop between global warming and cloud loss can push Earth’s climate past a disastrous tipping point in as little as a century.

At high enough atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations, Earth could reach a tipping point where marine stratus clouds become unstable and disappear, triggering a spike in global warming, according to a new modeling study.

The researchers also found that once the cloud decks vanished, they did not reappear until CO2 levels dropped to levels substantially below where the instability first occurred.

This event—which could raise surface temperatures by about 8 Kelvin (14 degrees Fahrenheit) globally—may occur at CO2 concentrations above 1,200 parts per million (ppm), according to the study, which will be published by Nature Geoscience on February 25. For reference, the current concentration is around 410 ppm and rising. If the world continues burning fossil fuels at the current rate, Earth's CO2 level could rise above 1,200 ppm in the next century.

The study could help solve a longstanding mystery in paleoclimatology. Geological records indicate that during the Eocene (around 50 million years ago), the Arctic was frost free and home to crocodiles. However, according to existing climate models, CO2 levels would need to rise above 4,000 ppm to heat the planet enough for the Arctic to be that warm. This is more than twice as high as the likely CO2 concentration during this time period. However, a warming spike caused by the loss of stratus cloud decks could explain the appearance of the Eocene's hothouse climate.


https://www.quantamagazine.org/cloud-loss-could-add-8-degrees-to-global-warming-20190225/ 
https://phys.org/news/2019-02-high-co2-destabilize-marine-layer.html

Possible climate transitions from breakup of stratocumulus decks under greenhouse warming, Nature Geoscience (2019)

----------------------------------------------

Unprecedented Biological Changes in the Global Ocean
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-02/c-ubc022219.php



By way of illustration, here are two applications of the model, for the periods running from 2005 to 2009 (top) and from 2010 to 2014 (bottom). Red indicates substantial biological changes; yellow, minor changes. No color means no change

Using a new computer model, an international team led by the CNRS and involving researchers from Sorbonne University has demonstrated that biological changes are accelerating, which has consequences for our use of marine resources. Their findings are published in Nature Climate Change.

Over time, marine biological systems have experienced changes of varying magnitude due to natural climatic fluctuations. Abrupt biological shifts—dubbed "climate surprises"—have also been detected in many regions of the ocean.

When initially tested for fourteen oceanic regions, the model accurately predicted actual biological changes observed in the field since the 1960s. By next applying the model to the global ocean, the researchers were able to quantify the force and spatial extent of these biological shifts. The model also allowed them to draw attention to a recent, unheard-of rise in the number of "climate surprises," which may likely be attributed to El Niño, temperature anomalies of the Atlantic and the Pacific, and Arctic warming.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-019-0420-1
http://www.cnrs.fr/sites/default/files/press_info/2019-02/CP_changementsOcean_VF_Anglais_web.pdf
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

kassy

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1446 on: February 25, 2019, 09:58:27 PM »
That´s one interesting find, thx!
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1447 on: February 26, 2019, 10:44:30 PM »
Enjoy that beer ? That extra little zing was from Roundup. No extra charge, donated by Monsanto.

https://www.americancraftbeer.com/a-dangerous-pesticide-found-in-beer/

(it's really a herbicide ...)

sidd

vox_mundi

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1448 on: February 27, 2019, 01:00:42 PM »
French Vineyards Try to Break Glyphosate Addiction 
https://phys.org/news/2019-02-french-vineyards-ready-glyphosate-addiction.html

The vaunted terroirs of France's vineyards have for decades been saturated with the world's most widely used [carcinogenic] weedkiller, but grape growers say the day is soon coming when glyphosate will no longer be part of the fine wine process.

President Emmanuel Macron has challenged the industry to stop using the herbicide—considered "probably cancerogenic" by the World Health Organization's cancer agency—faster than anyone else.

He had initially pledged to completely outlaw the weedkiller, most widely known under Monsanto's Roundup brand, by 2021, though Macron admitted last month the target was probably too ambitious.

... à votre santé
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

sidd

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Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« Reply #1449 on: March 01, 2019, 08:52:23 AM »
This is not directly related to climate change, but to agriculture in the USA:

"Giessel, 66, said he had once gotten to the point where he didn’t have to borrow his working capital and had a relatively new set of equipment, but he has had to borrow money for the last three years just to put in a crop."

I am seeing this a lot. Farmers who had their nose above water are goin under.

"The February survey of rural bankers in parts of 10 Plains and Western states showed that nearly two-thirds of banks in the region raised loan collateral requirements on fears of a weakening farm income. The Rural Mainstreet survey showed nearly one-third of banks reported they rejected more farm loan applications for that reason."

"Grain prices peaked in 2012 and prices have roughly fallen 36 percent since then for soybeans, 50 percent for corn and 48 percent for wheat."

“The big key in terms of whether or not we enter a financial crisis would be what would happen to land values,” Featherstone said. “So far land values have gradually declined, so that has kind of prevented us from maybe entering a situation like we did in the 1980s.”

I was ther in the 80's. Nobaody wants that again. Might happen.

sidd