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Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #900 on: June 28, 2016, 11:51:00 PM »
the sunlight reflected on the area which was earlier showing up darker than the surrounding snow is most likely refrozen waterlogged snow. An earlier image was showing an uneven surface which speaks against a fully developed meltpond. Air temperatures have fallen below 0oC again.

I am annoyed that I have not thought of this before: while the current position of the Obuoy has to be read out of the graph, ITP89, the big yellow thing on the left gives it to 3decimals:
2016 6 28 1316UTC 77.631N 147.3357W
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=148096

seaicesailor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #901 on: June 29, 2016, 12:28:24 AM »
the sunlight reflected on the area which was earlier showing up darker than the surrounding snow is most likely refrozen waterlogged snow. An earlier image was showing an uneven surface which speaks against a fully developed meltpond. Air temperatures have fallen below 0oC again.

I am annoyed that I have not thought of this before: while the current position of the Obuoy has to be read out of the graph, ITP89, the big yellow thing on the left gives it to 3decimals:
2016 6 28 1316UTC 77.631N 147.3357W
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=148096

Don't torture yourself ☺ It qualifies as surface melting, and I would call that a helluva melt pond but I am far sloppier and less dedicated to this.
The weather really wanted an almost 1-month delay of surface melting onset.
Another interesting part is Laptev sea where somehow similar state may be developing. An area of open water has been opened by the storms but the melting here is going very late wrt previous years. Surface melting was brief, and short term weather calls for further cooling of this sea. Almost same applies to ESS. Laptev ice is thin as glass though.

Pity no cams in Russian side as usual so I am off-topic.

Adam Ash

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #902 on: June 29, 2016, 02:09:25 AM »
Well spotted Andreas!  Of course the ice has moved since then in latest Worldview images so no sense trying too hard to find the buoy's actual position, but a check of the latest shows similar ice conditions to those I depicted in my 'neighbourhood' pix.  Just a big mess, and certainly not walkable for any distance - with biggest floes measuring about 10 to 15 km among a whole lot of melange. 

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #903 on: June 30, 2016, 08:57:49 AM »
again the glare of facing  into the sunlight hides the darkness of the transparent ice or water. This illustrates what I have said before. The specular reflection of a shiny surface reflects some of the incoming light in a narrow angle, the scattering surface of snow reflects most of the incoming light evenly over a large angle (180o) That reflected light in not seen from any angle other than the reflecting angle so it appears dark, but this darkness is not fully representative of the reflectiveness of the surface.
Posting with delay again (I want to keep to a fixed time to coincide with AQUA overhead ) I can say that the snowfree area is visible again later and that temperatures which had dropped again in a less cloudy period are up at 0deg this morning

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #904 on: June 30, 2016, 10:46:06 AM »
again the glare of facing  into the sunlight hides the darkness of the transparent ice or water. This illustrates what I have said before. The specular reflection of a shiny surface reflects some of the incoming light in a narrow angle, the scattering surface of snow reflects most of the incoming light evenly over a large angle (180o) That reflected light in not seen from any angle other than the reflecting angle so it appears dark, but this darkness is not fully representative of the reflectiveness of the surface.
Posting with delay again (I want to keep to a fixed time to coincide with AQUA overhead ) I can say that the snowfree area is visible again later and that temperatures which had dropped again in a less cloudy period are up at 0deg this morning

i always check temps as well when making assessments of images. 20:00 UTC temps are below freezing
and 06:00 UTC temps are slightly above freezing in that location. this is the general pattern, i'm not referring to any specific day. what i'm heading at is that beside the light condition IMO and as someone who was raised in snowy mountains i can see those 1-2C in the picture, once can distinguish from the visuals whether snow is
wet or dry, melting or freezing.

during night and early morning hours when temps are at -1/-2C in that location there is "Rauhreif" dunno the english term (frozen humid air, covering all surfaces) an that hides the pond or transparent spot which is visible at slightly higher temps and in different lighting

this is not meant as a "NO but" it's a "YES but there is more to it" so i agree with everything you said, just wanted to add this.

EDIT: the term could be: hoarfrost = Raureif, Reif
rime = Raureif, Reif

seaicesailor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #905 on: July 01, 2016, 03:11:03 AM »
I don't know if this has been noted here, but 2015F page ceased to report new data about ten days ago. A pity now that changes might happen around its location.

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #906 on: July 01, 2016, 11:39:20 PM »

i always check temps as well when making assessments of images. 20:00 UTC temps are below freezing
and 06:00 UTC temps are slightly above freezing in that location. this is the general pattern, i'm not referring to any specific day. what i'm heading at is that beside the light condition IMO and as someone who was raised in snowy mountains i can see those 1-2C in the picture, once can distinguish from the visuals whether snow is
wet or dry, melting or freezing.

during night and early morning hours when temps are at -1/-2C in that location there is "Rauhreif" dunno the english term (frozen humid air, covering all surfaces) an that hides the pond or transparent spot which is visible at slightly higher temps and in different lighting
...
When observing the temperature data over a longer period (since daylight reappeared there) the general pattern is higher temperatures at European nighttime, since the buoy is around 150o west of us, its local midday is 22:00 UTC if I am not getting my sums wrong.
The high humidity makes deposition of frost a plausible theory, but I can't see any evidence for it, there was frost on the buoys when it got very cold in autumn, but I haven't seen any deposits since.
In the last few days temperature changes have not followed the diurnal pattern, they seem more linked to wind direction and wind speed if anything.
What becomes clear to me from watching this in detail is there is no parameter which explains temperature patterns without fail. But on balance cloudy periods are often warmer than sunny periods. This fits with scientific reports stating that advection of warm air starts the surface melting which allows sunshine to play a stronger part in the melting process.

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #907 on: July 02, 2016, 01:28:44 AM »

i always check temps as well when making assessments of images. 20:00 UTC temps are below freezing
and 06:00 UTC temps are slightly above freezing in that location. this is the general pattern, i'm not referring to any specific day. what i'm heading at is that beside the light condition IMO and as someone who was raised in snowy mountains i can see those 1-2C in the picture, once can distinguish from the visuals whether snow is
wet or dry, melting or freezing.

during night and early morning hours when temps are at -1/-2C in that location there is "Rauhreif" dunno the english term (frozen humid air, covering all surfaces) an that hides the pond or transparent spot which is visible at slightly higher temps and in different lighting
...
When observing the temperature data over a longer period (since daylight reappeared there) the general pattern is higher temperatures at European nighttime, since the buoy is around 150o west of us, its local midday is 22:00 UTC if I am not getting my sums wrong.
The high humidity makes deposition of frost a plausible theory, but I can't see any evidence for it, there was frost on the buoys when it got very cold in autumn, but I haven't seen any deposits since.
In the last few days temperature changes have not followed the diurnal pattern, they seem more linked to wind direction and wind speed if anything.
What becomes clear to me from watching this in detail is there is no parameter which explains temperature patterns without fail. But on balance cloudy periods are often warmer than sunny periods. This fits with scientific reports stating that advection of warm air starts the surface melting which allows sunshine to play a stronger part in the melting process.

as to temps that's what i was saying just  other words, 20:00 UTC is the beginning of night time in CET zone and 06:00 is the beginning of day time (07:00 in CET zone)

as to the frost, i saw it with my own eyes over several days, on the ponds and on the little thing to the right.
as i said one has to grow up with this and the place i spend my childhood that was basically a daily thing in fall over grass (better visible) and in winter over snow, (one needs the eye for it and know how it looks to see it immediately) for a normal low-lander that would be just snow. :-)

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #908 on: July 04, 2016, 09:05:55 AM »
to keep the series of comparable images I am posting yesterdays nearly 20:00 image again, but the more interesting recent image shows surface melt progressing clearly: more of the IMB on the near right is becoming visible and areas withouts snowdrifts show bare ice (covered in water in some places I think)

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #909 on: July 04, 2016, 12:52:05 PM »
to keep the series of comparable images I am posting yesterdays nearly 20:00 image again, but the more interesting recent image shows surface melt progressing clearly: more of the IMB on the near right is becoming visible and areas withouts snowdrifts show bare ice (covered in water in some places I think)

good you point it out, as per yesterday one can see 20-30cm lost over the last few days and especially worth to mention in this context IMO is that all this happened at temps between -2 > +1C and with relatively little insolation. everyone can calculate what 20cm lost in 5 days (for example) + bottom melt predict for the not so far future, considering the ice has been around 2m thick in that area ( 1.80 > 2.00m ) and is not solid (fracured) like everywhere else. interesting times lay ahead, especially with the winds and the lower latitudes going "poof" quite soon.

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #910 on: July 05, 2016, 08:57:08 AM »
for those who prefer not to rely on their innate ability to judge dimensions at a glance: the diameter of the visible part of the seasonal ice mass balance buoy at the near right is 7.5 see http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/SeasonalIBinst.htm
this makes the melt in a vertical direction about 20cm since the 22.6.
the images I have archived on this thread let you see for yourself.
I missed yesterdays 20:00 UTC image, it updates irregularly at times.

seaicesailor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #911 on: July 05, 2016, 09:33:07 AM »
....
this makes the melt in a vertical direction about 20cm since the 22.6.

It was all snow up to this point, wasn't it ?

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #912 on: July 05, 2016, 12:07:54 PM »
yes, compare with this image from April: http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,327.msg74891.html#msg74891
snow drifted over the IMB since then.
on the other buoys the drop of the surface level is harder to estimate, pity they don't have markings. But my guess is that it is down below the level at installation, i.e. the snow which was present in September has gone from areas without drift.

seaicesailor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #913 on: July 05, 2016, 07:30:11 PM »
2015F, half way between the Pole and Barrow, has revived. Bottom and surface melting just started.
The late time of this, and how far the open water is from the buoy make me think we will be seeing data of this buoy next year (if it doesn't die), and at the same time that 2012 record is safe.

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #914 on: July 05, 2016, 11:25:16 PM »
good news seaicesailor, oddly lat/lon position seems not to be up to date, I'll check the preliminary date file tomorrow http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015F.htm
today temperatures at Obuoy14 dropped to about -3oC when sun was low under clear sky now they are back up to 0. With the albedo lowered where bare ice is exposed and where meltwater shows up as bright reflecting surface, incoming sunlight is absorbed more strongly but as I explained does little to raise surface temps. It does on the other hand raise ice temperature further down and I suspect contributes to bottom melt which may be stronger than at the more northerly 2015F if that still has a more intact snow cover.

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #915 on: July 07, 2016, 12:07:39 AM »
with high temperatures and sunshine we are now seeing definite meltponds.


plinius

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #916 on: July 07, 2016, 12:29:13 AM »
the really warm air is just arriving - also impressive how quick the pond has expanded just in 2 hours. The next days promise to be quite exciting.

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #917 on: July 07, 2016, 01:29:19 AM »
the really warm air is just arriving - also impressive how quick the pond has expanded just in 2 hours. The next days promise to be quite exciting.

And expanded some more 3 hours later.
I'm starting to strengthen my suspicion that the area far behind and to the left is a huge melt pond.
Such a pity that the movie is not updating. Can learn so much from it.

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #918 on: July 08, 2016, 08:42:36 AM »
20:00 image from yesterday

ITP89 is reporting position again, sadly no new profiles,
Last position on 2016/7/8 1316 UTC : 77.5344° N, 143.6856° W
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 09:10:58 PM by Andreas T »

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #919 on: July 09, 2016, 03:58:52 AM »
Looks like 2015F has lost nearly all it's snow.

http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015F.htm
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Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #920 on: July 09, 2016, 08:53:16 AM »
to have a better idea of dimensions here is a picture of the deployment of Autonomous Ocean Flux Buoy 37, the one with the red dome on the right in the Obuoy14 images.
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=147936&tid=201&cid=117253&ct=362#

As snow melts away the breaks in the ice which happened shortly after deployment are becoming visible again. But some of the pieces of ice have also melted away, a piece sticking up halfway towards the AOFB which was a clear feature in earlier images is hardly identifiable now

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #921 on: July 09, 2016, 11:20:08 PM »
another instalment, temperatures are above zero towards local midday again, possibly the clouds have kept them higher around local midnight as well. Now of course with water on the surface allowing light to enter the ice, sunlight is making a larger impact on (bottom) melt than before regardless of surface temperature.

If someone wants to make these regular images into an animation, let me know I have a few which I did not post, but the "movie" will update eventually anyway.


Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #922 on: July 12, 2016, 12:54:06 AM »
todays image, temperature which has been very steady at around 0deg for the last couple of days has gone to +2 as far as can be told from the graph.

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #923 on: July 12, 2016, 01:33:08 AM »
todays image, temperature which has been very steady at around 0deg for the last couple of days has gone to +2 as far as can be told from the graph.

there is open water in the top left corner for a day or two now, better visible under different light conditions.
and as we shall see, all that what counts as 100% extent will vanish or be heavily reduced within very short time soon.

Bruce Steele

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #924 on: July 12, 2016, 05:13:48 AM »
Water temps at 3 meters below mean low tide Red Dog Dock , Chukchi Sea.  57 F

 http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=RDDA2

plinius

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #925 on: July 12, 2016, 04:00:02 PM »
Well, let's call that a bay at the Alaskan West Coast... That's rather similar to Fjords that can often reach bathing temperatures in summer.

Bruce Steele

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #926 on: July 12, 2016, 04:35:36 PM »
Plinius, I could also say Red Dog Dock is in Kotzebue Sound but not sure if that is correct. We both know the warm water there located will, with the Alaskan current, head further north and round Pt.Hope eventually mixing with the waters of the Beaufort.
 Mostly I am missing the ITP WHOI buoys .
 I think 57.7F is getting fairly close to the high end of July historical records for Red Dog. Maybe you could correct me if I am wrong.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=rdda2&meas=st

plinius

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #927 on: July 12, 2016, 05:57:34 PM »
Bruce, I think you are fully right about the temperature and the record value.
Yet, not entirely sure about the direction of the water or the significance - that buoy is very close to the coast and the bay is likely to have its own circulation.
If that would be part of the currents through the Bering Strait then all this warm water is going to the Beaufort, not the Chuckchi - as you will know, Alaska has that big coastal warm current along the northern slope.
If you look at the satellite derived data:
http://ocean.dmi.dk/satellite/index.uk.php

You see, however, that both bays of western Alaska have water temperatures significantly above those of the Bering sea and in particular Bering Strait and. So I do not think that this buoy is representative.

Bruce Steele

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #928 on: July 12, 2016, 06:39:49 PM »
Plinius, Red Dog Dock is as far north in Alaska that I can find real time water temperatures other than the mass buoys.
 As a personal note I dove Prince William Sound and Togiak bay for herring roe on kelp in the early 80's. I also fished herring at Nunivak Island and further north in Norton Sound. Communities that far
north put in orders for goods to be delivered by barge in summer season. Kotzebue is the northern most salmon fishery in the U.S.   I never made it that far north. One of the problems fishing Kotzebue back when I was up there was that Kotzebue sound, some years, stayed frozen all summer. The barges couldn't make the supply runs and the fish had to be air shipped out.
 Water temps in the 60 F  range are water temperatures I would expect here in Southern Calif. for a better part of the year. For Kotzebue Sound it just seems weird !
 As I said in my last post I think the warm water will round Pt. Hope but I am still waiting.   

plinius

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #929 on: July 13, 2016, 02:25:23 AM »
Bruce, very interesting to hear. Hadn't placed you that far north. Quite curious sudden changes in the water temperature, by the way:
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/show_plot.php?station=rdda2&meas=wtmp&uom=E&time_diff=-8&time_label=AKDT

going on for a while:
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/data/realtime2/RDDA2.txt

You will know that far better than my armchair experience there ;-), but that would get me to a blind guess that the warm water patch isn't very large, perhaps some real coastal water mass, or a fresh water lens from the rivers?

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #930 on: July 15, 2016, 11:25:28 PM »
Looking a little foggy today. The melt pond in the center is looking darker and darker. Anyone want to hazard a guess on the ice thickness there?

In case anyone is curious, the IMB buoy in the lower right corner of the OBuoy14 image is 2015H, which has a sort of epitaph here:

http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015H.htm

Status of Instrumentation:
Under Ice Stooped 10/13/2015
Snow sounder stops working 10/24/2015
Automated QC-Plotting not active
Crushed 10/28/2015

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #931 on: July 16, 2016, 12:17:02 AM »
Thank you, I have not been able to find that! Your link gives conditions at deployment as:
Snow Depth: 30-40 cm
Ice Thickness: 45 cm
at IMB2015F there has been just under 1m of thinkness growth over the winter, I expect a little less with more snow and possibly a little warmer temperatures. We could see a meltout if the camera lasts.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #932 on: July 16, 2016, 09:02:42 PM »
It looks to me like either the instrument in the right rear has either settled or the melt pond has gotten deeper, perhaps due to melt but perhaps due to rain?

Also in the fog, the instrument in the near right resembles a miniature polar bear looking toward or just to the right of the camera in my opinion...


magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #933 on: July 16, 2016, 09:14:56 PM »
It looks to me like either the instrument in the right rear has either settled or the melt pond has gotten deeper, perhaps due to melt but perhaps due to rain?

Also in the fog, the instrument in the near right resembles a miniature polar bear looking toward or just to the right of the camera in my opinion...



it has sunken down, either swimming now or sitting deeper, before it was trapped (held) firm by the ice.

LOL as to the bear, nothing wrong with a bit of fantasy (fun)

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #934 on: July 17, 2016, 12:28:07 AM »
copying a link to the image means it will update to the most recent so that image and text will no longer describe the same thing.

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #935 on: July 18, 2016, 01:21:33 AM »
This does look like snowfall to me and maybe some draining of meltpond.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 01:28:43 AM by Andreas T »

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #936 on: July 18, 2016, 11:50:16 PM »
a dry lens gives a clearer view and makes the snow fall unmistakable. The drop in temperature earlier today caused the meltpond to freeze over.

seaicesailor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #937 on: July 19, 2016, 12:16:30 AM »
This itp has be having a extremely abrupt salinity increase in the last three days or so (coincidence?):
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=148096
It is in a very broken area of the Beaufort sea. 77.5N, 140W approx.
What I don't understand is how salitnity can increase suddenly throughout the entire mixed layer to same salinity as at the halocline.
Three ideas from my poor understanding of the mixed layer:
- The storm did pull and mix water from the halocline (is that even possible so quickly?)
- A pocket of saline water that entered thru Bering in Spring came about (I like this one but seems improbable that salinity goes to exact same value as halocline)
- The buoy just got loose from the ice because of the storm and is giving strange measurements.
If anyone has an idea. Such a raise in salinity (and also temperature) in that area, the ice would melt faster.
Edit: just checked coords..., isn't that yellow cone in the o buoy 14 pics?? That would rule out the last possibility
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 12:30:22 AM by seaicesailor »

Jim Hunt

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #938 on: July 19, 2016, 12:23:36 AM »
This itp has be having a extremely abrupt salinity increase in the last three days or so

Not over the last 3 days though. The last profile was on May 8th. There was some discussion on the topic over at:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2016/06/summer-2016-surface-melt-takes-off/
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

seaicesailor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #939 on: July 19, 2016, 12:36:44 AM »
My bad, again
Thanks Jim. It broke then

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #940 on: July 19, 2016, 12:38:47 AM »
also earlier this year on another forum thread http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1493.msg79147.html#msg79147 where the consensus was that the buoy appeared to be malfunctioning


seaicesailor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #941 on: July 19, 2016, 12:41:48 AM »
I see.
To my defense, there are many dates written in the page and is a bit confusing. Then the x-axis in days does not help.
But well I am sloppy as hell, sorry for that.

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #942 on: July 19, 2016, 11:02:07 PM »
another chilly day at Obuoy14
Can somebody explain what relative humidity tells us there? Does the low relative humidity indicate air coming from higher altitude (where it was colder and therefore dryer?)

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #943 on: July 21, 2016, 10:34:14 PM »
IMB2015f which has been quiet for a few days has updated: further surface melt and quite steep bottom melt. Air temperature has been below zero a fair part of the time recently.
As much as such a single measurement point can tell, it confirms that low surface air temperature is not a sign of little melt.
http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015F.htm
edit: seaicesailor has posted useful sat images with location of 2015F  and points out that the bottom melt seen could be an opening crack at the buoy location, something we have seen happen in other years
http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1493.msg84302.html#msg84302
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 10:39:36 PM by Andreas T »

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #944 on: July 21, 2016, 10:48:59 PM »
todays midday image from Obuoy14: the reflection ot the AOFB shows water at the surface again.

Tensor

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #945 on: July 21, 2016, 11:27:40 PM »
todays midday image from Obuoy14: the reflection ot the AOFB shows water at the surface again.

Andreas, is that open water, a melt pond, or just sun on a ridge of ice, in the sun, just above the AOFB?
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Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #946 on: July 21, 2016, 11:39:16 PM »
My first thought was open water (there was a dark line recently) but the sun is above the frame of the image facing the camera so I would think the angle is too high for reflection of a water surface, or am I getting this wrong? Waves could cause reflection over a wider range of angles than a flat mirror like sea. Or is it ice which lies under a band of clear sky (seems too bright for that?)
A ridge should be in shadow seen against the sun so I think we can exclude that. Cloud edges can be bright but again the sun seems too high above it.
I avoided commenting on it earlier because I just can't come up with an interpretation I am confident about.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #947 on: July 22, 2016, 12:16:03 AM »
My first thought was open water (there was a dark line recently) but the sun is above the frame of the image facing the camera so I would think the angle is too high for reflection of a water surface, or am I getting this wrong? Waves could cause reflection over a wider range of angles than a flat mirror like sea. Or is it ice which lies under a band of clear sky (seems too bright for that?)
A ridge should be in shadow seen against the sun so I think we can exclude that. Cloud edges can be bright but again the sun seems too high above it.
I avoided commenting on it earlier because I just can't come up with an interpretation I am confident about.

that stripe of open water is there for a long time already and while depending on lighting and weather there was room for a variety of interpretations there were indeed images, at least for those who check once every few hours or less that left no doubt that there is a lead of unknown size, while considering the fact that that lead survived all kinds of events, winds, temps etc. it must have a significant size, else it should intermittently have closed and re-opened. one very clear picture was during the last 3 days but i don't store them, perhaps i should have to illustrate this statement or perhaps someone did. as far as i know there are a few more users following the buoy camera very closly.

BTW reading the recent posts around here it seems that many earlier disputed things slowly start to realize and sink in. as neven said, one should have a list with who said what :-) ;)

JayW

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #948 on: July 22, 2016, 01:20:53 AM »
In trying not to read too much into this, but are 2015I (first attachment) and 2015J  (Second attachment) trying to awake?

http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/newdata.htm
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binntho

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #949 on: July 22, 2016, 07:24:22 AM »
todays midday image from Obuoy14: the reflection ot the AOFB shows water at the surface again.

Andreas, is that open water, a melt pond, or just sun on a ridge of ice, in the sun, just above the AOFB?
Looks like sunlight on open water shining through a gap in the cloud cover.
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
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