What the Buoys are telling

[Tom]

@Jim,  Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.  I’ve been trying to get a better handle on what the buoys report so that I can quantify some of the weather related excitement in the main melt thread.

Looking again at the image you posted I see your point about the sensor creating a melt pit, which I guess makes this data as fuzzy and open to interpretation as everything else arctic related.

[interstitial]

Jim I am not doubting you or looking for references necessarily but are these melt pits documented? Is this a problem in newer buoys? I would think careful design and selection of materials could eliminate this problem. I can think of a few things off the top of my head to reduce/eliminate this problem. There may be issues I am unaware of but it sounds fixable.

[Jim Hunt]

Jim I am not doubting you or looking for references necessarily but are these melt pits documented?

Yes. See for example this reference: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a532414.pdf

[igs]

What a time to have to have a big maintenance job.

I attach "Unwanted Arctic Image of The Day"

This repeats at least twice every year, always when things get especially interesting.

Also worth a mention is that all SIMB-Buoeys except one in the Beaufort sea are now offline, exactly when we desperately want to know ice-thickness (mass-balance)

https://www.cryosphereinnovation.com/387850

@uniquorn

I really intend to keep an eye but after the 12th most of the buoyes have switched from active to pending, I'll furter keep an eye but such a bummer now that thickness is such an interesing thing.

[Bruce Steele]

I have a rather bold claim and bold claims should have strong support of observations.
With the disclaimer that I am not really qualified to make bold claims.

So it looks to me like the Beaufort has lost a serious amount of FWC. We have two buoys ITP 113&114 that are located where the gyre spin causes freshwater surface waters to be the thickest. We have completed ITP runs to compare thickness of the fresh water lens by looking at the top of the
Halocline( bright yellow on in the T/S contours ) . The good Beaufort runs in completed runs to compare
70,77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 85, 86, 87, 97.   

 So both of the currently working buoys show a comparatively shallow fresh water lens for most all of their travels and ITP-114 is well centered in the gyre and has been for months. It shows well the thinning.

[igs]

Jim I am not doubting you or looking for references necessarily but are these melt pits documented?

Yes. See for example this reference: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a532414.pdf

All true back in 2011 and much up to present days, but then even though not everything has changed, there have been improvements to this behaviour through the use of special materials, coatings as well as "ankers" since 2011.

[uniquorn]

This might help with the detective work, 386840, jun15-jul9

The string sensor records above surface temperatures a lot higher than the air temperature sensor (shown in the subtitle) on some days, probably during full sun. That would encourage the formation of a melt pool where the buoy meets the snow/ice surface.

A shame about the other SIMB.

[igs]

This might help with the detective work, 386840, jun15-jul9

The string sensor records above surface temperatures a lot higher than the air temperature sensor (shown in the subtitle) on some days, probably during full sun. That would encourage the formation of a melt pool where the buoy meets the snow/ice surface.

A shame about the other SIMB.

OK, so we're not there yet as far as perfect tech is concerned, do you think that those ankering systems they recently improved don't help enough to keep the buoey at level. I mean even if the snow and ice around the buoy melts upon contact which is somehow hard to totally avoid, once the buoey is ankered laterally it should be possible to avoid that they sink in, in extremis that would mean that the buoey is kind of suspended in the air (theoretically)

Of course what i'm saying would not rectify temp readings etc. but at least ice-thickness could be measured more reliably.

If we look at the many discussions about PIOMAS and HYCOM volume and thickness readings and if we have that many buoeys spread over the arctic, why not optimize thickness readings and include them into the algorythms and/or use them to cross-check results.

[Jim Hunt]

There have been improvements to this behaviour through the use of special materials, coatings as well as "ankers" since 2011.

Is any documentation available for these improvements? Are you referring to "anchors"?

[interstitial]

The thermistors could be connected wirelessly to the buoy. Newer bluetooth tech has a low power draw and thermistors are low power too. Just a thought.

[igs]

There have been improvements to this behaviour through the use of special materials, coatings as well as "ankers" since 2011.

Is any documentation available for these improvements? Are you referring to "anchors"?

Sorry for the bad spelling "anchor" I mean indeed.

I came across a patent about 2 years ago but did not pay enough attention to bookmark or download it. Perhaps my assumption that this is the new state of the art was kind of jumping to conclusion.

I have to search and read more into it to find out or perhaps someone is around who knows how modern buoys are built in detail.

I'll come back as soon as i found that patent sketch or an even better documentation.

[FishOutofWater]

Jim, we don't all speak the King's English, especially here down south, and our spelling is different.
 
Cyclonic conditions in the winter, a strongly positive AO, are associated with thinning of the fresh water layer in the Beaufort gyre.  That's what happened last winter so I would expect to see a thinner fresh water layer this summer.

[Bruce Steele]

FishOutOfWater, I posted on what I saw as a decrease in FWC of the Beaufort. It seemed like the surface fresh water layer got deeper over the years of watching the ITP buoys. From 2003 -2018 there was 40% more fresh water than in the seventies.
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019JC015281

Which exit did the fresh water take and does this reduce the threat of a freshwater pulse entering the Atlantic or increase it?  I thought the buildup of FWC was considered a bit of a threat.

[uniquorn]

I mean even if the snow and ice around the buoy melts upon contact which is somehow hard to totally avoid, once the buoey is ankered laterally it should be possible to avoid that they sink in

The SIMB buoys are weighted so that they float upright and should continue to operate in open water, unless crushed by ice. But if the ice freeboard changes, the buoy will sink or rise to its weighted level. Then possibly refreeze at the new level.
Probably preferable to being dragged around by anchors on a wayward floe

[Jim Hunt]

I came across a patent about 2 years ago but did not pay enough attention to bookmark or download it. Perhaps my assumption that this is the new state of the art was kind of jumping to conclusion.

Thanks for the patent tip. I have found this one for what looks like the original SIMB, assigned to the "US Government":

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9315243B2/en

It doesn't seem to be cited by anything similar that's more recent though.

[OffTheGrid]

FishOutOfWater, I posted on what I saw as a decrease in FWC of the Beaufort. It seemed like the surface fresh water layer got deeper over the years of watching the ITP buoys. From 2003 -2018 there was 40% more fresh water than in the seventies.
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019JC015281

Which exit did the fresh water take and does this reduce the threat of a freshwater pulse entering the Atlantic or increase it?  I thought the buildup of FWC was considered a bit of a threat.

There is a big smelly rat in that paper that makes nonsense of any claims of an increase over that period.
"The total climatological (here defined to be prior to 1989) liquid freshwater content of the Arctic Ocean was estimated to be around 80,000 km3, relative to a reference salinity of 34.8"

We are now seeing Beaufort surface salinity in the 28 to 32 psu range. Prior to 2007 Low twenties was the norm. Calling the dilution of the fresher cap by pacific and atlantic waters to the point that halocline stability is seriously compromised an increase in freshwater content is pure misdirection.

[igs]

I came across a patent about 2 years ago but did not pay enough attention to bookmark or download it. Perhaps my assumption that this is the new state of the art was kind of jumping to conclusion.

Thanks for the patent tip. I have found this one for what looks like the original SIMB, assigned to the "US Government":

https://patents.google.com/patent/US9315243B2/en

It doesn't seem to be cited by anything similar that's more recent though.

Damn, you're good and I'm glad.

I was searching for hours and didn't find it. My thinking pattern is not in line with google algorithms which is not helpful for typing in search terms (keywords) LOL

Either way thanks a lot, this time i'll keep it.

 

[Bruce Steele]

I follow the ITP dataset year after year. I have posted on an interesting decrease in the surface mixed layer, the salinity of which is variable depending on depth or season. There are no pycnocline layers the mixed layer. There are plenty of papers on the buildup of the surface layer and reasons why and there are also papers that postulate problems in the North Atlantic should a large amount of fresh water exit the Beaufort all at once.
 I can only watch some buoys and there are not many ITP buoys that survive the ice so we don’t have many to watch. If there are papers that discredit a buildup then please post them.
 I appreciate what FIshOutOfWater said about cyclonic winter conditions and a positive AO and the thinning I saw did occur during the winter months.
 I went through some effort to list buoys that had good runs in the Beaufort so other readers didn’t have to sort through failed buoy data. I would appreciate it OffTheGrid if you would cite some science rather than a curt , the paper is bullshit answer. Do you see the thinning I have pointed to and does it mean anything other than variability we should expect ? If you agree with me there has been a thinning perhaps you could enlighten me about where it has gone and point me to a dataset that documents your contention.

ps I noticed that the mixed layer in the Timmerman paper was for pacific inflow. I am just talking the surface fresh water layer that is deepest in the center of the gyre.
 

[uniquorn]

70,77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 85, 86, 87, 97.   

I'll run the numbers on them

[Bruce Steele]

Thanks in advance. I compared the top of Halocline which seemed to average slightly above the fifty meter depth in those completed buoy runs to the current top of Halocline on 113+114. I have read the Timmerman link you put up the other day. Thanks for that also.

[OffTheGrid]

I follow the ITP dataset year after year. I have posted on an interesting decrease in the surface mixed layer, the salinity of which is variable depending on depth or season. There are no pycnocline layers the mixed layer. There are plenty of papers on the buildup of the surface layer and reasons why and there are also papers that postulate problems in the North Atlantic should a large amount of fresh water exit the Beaufort all at once.
 I can only watch some buoys and there are not many ITP buoys that survive the ice so we don’t have many to watch. If there are papers that discredit a buildup then please post them.
 I appreciate what FIshOutOfWater said about cyclonic winter conditions and a positive AO and the thinning I saw did occur during the winter months.
 I went through some effort to list buoys that had good runs in the Beaufort so other readers didn’t have to sort through failed buoy data. I would appreciate it OffTheGrid if you would cite some science rather than a curt , the paper is bullshit answer. Do you see the thinning I have pointed to and does it mean anything other than variability we should expect ? If you agree with me there has been a thinning perhaps you could enlighten me about where it has gone and point me to a dataset that documents your contention.

ps I noticed that the mixed layer in the Timmerman paper was for pacific inflow. I am just talking the surface fresh water layer that is deepest in the center of the gyre.

For what Its worth, my impression is that the freshest surface layer has thinned also. There have been papers discussed on this forum that  show increased halocline instability and an increase in overturning and mixing events in the Beaufort. The paper claiming an increase in freshwater content was also discussed. ATeam was one of those  who expressed disgust that they were defininging freshwater as anything below 34.5 psu, which is above the salinity of the increasing influx of pacific summer water through Bering. There has also been a big increase in shoaling of Atlantic water all down the outer CAA, some of which, even after full mixing and cooling with meltwater under ice through the entire CAA channel system is emerging at around 33 psu and 5C into the labrador.
Some of that shoaling water is also without any doubt going south and mixing with riverine and melt in shallow open waters in the Beaufort.
I have studied in depth all the itp historic profiles.the slopes of the recent salinity and temperature curves in the composite plots suggest increased instability of the protective Lid to my eye. I'll try find some examples later to post.
To be honest, I have lost confidence in their motives regarding what data they show us. Some six buoys have misteriously stopped publishing crawler profiles as soon as they get near the CAA in the last two years. Some as little as two months old. Given that it is undeniable that VERY warm Atlantic waters have formed a New major current system around the top of Greenland and south into the Beaufort and CAA, i smell coverup, wherther it is political, or academic gloryseekers withholding till they publish, it is the most important development in the arctic system in recent years imo.. AND btw should eliminate concerns of a cold fresh flush 1970s style.

[uniquorn]

itp97 salinity 7-250m and location (no projection)

[Bruce Steele]

OffTheGrid, I think your physical oceanography knowledge is as important as the satellite imagery and meteorology that dominates the melting season thread. Physical oceanography and the processes that affect bottom melt are kinda in a black box and with so little buoy data we really are hobbled in real time observations or data.
 It would seem to me that as the halocline shoals there are canyons and deep shelves that can move Atlantic/ Pacific halocline waters to where upwelling becomes a bigger issue in transport of heat towards the surface.
 We already know the areas most affected by upwelling but we don’t know the temp/salinity of the source water in real time. Could you link something about the 33psu 5C waters?
 Btw, I keep searching the web to see if our current Arctic extent minimum is making news. Not

[Bruce Steele]

Uniquorn, My I-pad can’t download information from your last post. Problem at my end.i get a grey screen with a white triangle with a slash through it. I can see your images on posts,1887 and 1890 but not on 1895 or 1921.

[uniquorn]

ok. I'll concentrate on something else.

[Bruce Steele]

Sorry, Others can view your posts and are interested I am sure.

[gandul]

Uniquorn, My I-pad can’t download information from your last post. Problem at my end.i get a grey screen with a white triangle with a slash through it. I can see your images on posts,1887 and 1890 but not on 1895 or 1921.

Bruce, You can try watch it on a Windows comp or Android. iOS has many compatibility issues with this forum

[blumenkraft]

iOS has many compatibility issues with this forum

I think it's a problem with the Safari browser, not the OS. There are other browsers for iOS. Maybe try another one?

Brave Browser >> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/brave-private-web-browser/id1052879175

Google Chrome >> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/google-chrome/id535886823

Modzilla Firefox >> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-private-safe-browser/id989804926

[RikW]

Btw, I keep searching the web to see if our current Arctic extent minimum is making news. Not

When driving home yesterday i heard it in the radio during the news “arctic sea ice 2M km2 lower than normaal” same size as scandinavia/ france; so in the netherlands it had been mentioned om national radio

[Jim Hunt]

Another report from SIMB3 386840.

It looks to be on the threshold of melting out of its hole.

Which now appears to have happened. Perhaps as a result the thermistor string is now making better contact with the remaining ice?

[OffTheGrid]

Oh what a wonderful surprise! After being missing in actions since January, ITP 111 has come home with a full profile along a very simular drift path to Mosaic.
Wow!!! No halocline whatsoever since march somewhere near the pole.

Contrasting with the other Atlantic side buoys, that stopped publishing profiles in january, same area, 102,  and 116 which quit on Jan 11. Same date as 117, 118, and 119 in the Beaufort. Just as they reached the upslope nth of the CAA (way too deep still for snagging the bottom, all.)

[Tom]

Another report from SIMB3 386840.

It looks to be on the threshold of melting out of its hole.

Which now appears to have happened. Perhaps as a result the thermistor string is now making better contact with the remaining ice?

Thanks for the update.  I’m finding them really interesting now I understand them a bit better.  I agree with you completely. It clearly looks like the buoy is now sitting 60cm lower since the meltout.

[Jim Hunt]

MOSAiC SIMB #3 has partially burst back into life. The thermistor string seems to have died, but the remaining sensors indicate that it has also melted out of its mounting hole:

[igs]

MOSAiC SIMB #3 has partially burst back into life. The thermistor string seems to have died, but the remaining sensors indicate that it has also melted out of its mounting hole:

What about the possibility of a acceleration of ice-melt, after all the buoy is quite far south already, probably spot on 80N or slightly lower ?

[Jim Hunt]

What about the possibility of a acceleration of ice-melt, after all the buoy is quite far south already, probably spot on 80N or slightly lower ?

The ice melt may well be accelerating, but when the surface and bottom sensor readings both move a long way in lock step then the buoy has moved relative to the ice.

[Jim Hunt]

A bit more data has arrived from the Beaufort Sea.

If forced to guess I'd say that the bottom of the melt pond is at around thermistor #67, and the bottom of the remaining ice at around #98.

[igs]

What about the possibility of a acceleration of ice-melt, after all the buoy is quite far south already, probably spot on 80N or slightly lower ?

The ice melt may well be accelerating, but when the surface and bottom sensor readings both move a long way in lock step then the buoy has moved relative to the ice.

Understood, THX

[Jim Hunt]

Buoy 387850's DTC has burst back into life, and bottom melt seems to proceeding apace:

https://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/ice-mass-balance-buoys/summer-2020-imb-buoys/#MOSAiC-3

[uniquorn]

Added a few more buoys to the drift animation. Someone is collecting a large swath of data in the Beaufort/Chukchi

[Jim Hunt]

Look at those Beaufort buoys go!

[uniquorn]

Tbuoy update. The red dot on the first ani is polarstern at 79.41N -2.72  at 0500UTC today. Not all Tbuoys are shown.
Temperature profile, jul1-27. Lots of melting.

[ArcticMelt2]

Added a few more buoys to the drift animation. Someone is collecting a large swath of data in the Beaufort/Chukchi

Thanks interesting. Are there data on atmospheric pressure from buoys in the Beaufort Sea and the Chukchi Sea?

[uniquorn]

Some have BP.

ITP117 was deployed on a 1.35 m ice floe in the Beaufort Sea on September 19, 2019 at 80° 55.0 N, 135° 31.9 W as part of the Beaufort Gyre Observing System (BGOS) during the JOIS 2019 cruise on the CCGS Louis S. St. Laurent. On the same icefloe, a prototype Tethered Ocean Profiler (TOP), and a US Army Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory (CRREL) Seasonal Ice Mass Balance Buoy 3 was also installed. The ITP is operating on a standard sampling schedule of 2 one-way profiles between 7 and 760 m depth each day and includes a fixed SAMI PCO2 with ODO and PAR at 6 m depth.

This looks like the cryosphere simb sharing a floe with itp117

[uniquorn]

Kept the drift speed in and added BP as label. At least one buoy has a faulty barometer but it has been left in to remind that representations of raw data need to be treated with caution.
It's possible that drift speed went higher during the gaps in the drift path.

[Jim Hunt]

This looks like the cryosphere simb sharing a floe with itp117

Good spot! Shame there's no webcam

[uniquorn]

JAMSTEC/ICEX buoys currently in the Chukchi

About Warm Buoy & SideKick

JAMSTEC WARM (Warming and Irradiance Measurements) Buoy project has started to comprehend temporal changings of oceanic enviornment from ice-covered season toward open-water season. Thr WARM Buoy and Side Kick system (see below) was deployed at ICEX 2020 camp station in Beaufort Sea. These systems measure vertical structure of water mass (temperature and salinity) and chlorophyll-a fluorensence from surface to 60-m depth for every 1-hour and send via iridium satellite communication system (see real-time data page). SideKick monitors daily time series of upper-ice views (see gallery pages).
We kindly acknowledge US Navy Arctic Submarine Laboratory and Pacific Gyre Inc. for their kind support for this project. For your information, please also see UpTemp0 web site by University of Washington and WARM Buoy project of Old Dominion University.

Sidekick takes pictures
clear images from may1-jul26  click

[Jim Hunt]

Sidekick takes pictures

That's more like it!

It's a bit wibbly wobbly though?

[uniquorn]

sidekick has fallen over. sk2 shows sky conditions, sk1 is probably facing down in a melt pond. Well we do like to talk about the weather.

[uniquorn]

mosaic buoy m29 melting out, jul15-31
t62 melting out, jul15-aug1
t63 with a traumatic story to tell, jul15-aug9
t64 sudden end, jul15-aug11

[uniquorn]

mosaic buoy t66, melt pond and melted out, jul15-aug12
t67, looks like low freeboard, jul15-aug6
t69 still going strong, possible ridging very early on, jul15-aug12
t70, big melt pond, possibly still melting, jul15-aug7