Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: The Alt Right  (Read 2596 times)

The Walrus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 787
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 106
  • Likes Given: 63
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2020, 05:44:58 AM »
I believe that life has become much more difficult during the last 50 years. Medical costs, education costs... for example have increased more than the salaries. So some people who were proud to be able to manage everything on their own can't do it anymore and so they found that some solidarity makes sense, that taxes should be also paid by the riches...

I believe the opposite; namely that so many more options are available to the average Joe that were only available to the wealthy.
This is kind of like defining economic trouble
A economic downturn is when people you don't know are laid off.
A recession is when your neighbor or people you know is laid off.
A depression is when you get laid off.

I have heard that expression many times before.  Not sure how it relates to this discussion though.

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1087
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 184
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2020, 12:21:59 PM »
I'm reading now a book by Alicia Garza which talks of this subject.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/17/black-lives-matter-alicia-garza-leadership-today-doesnt-look-like-martin-luther-king
It's quite interesting but I haven't read enough to make more comments.

Ktb

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 127
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2020, 03:39:04 AM »
Trump and his goons affirm what I have long feared. Their current plan is to continue on as if the election did not occur.

For anybody who does not feel like clicking the link and watching the video below:

When Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is asked about a smooth transition to the Biden admin, he responds with

Quote
There will be a smooth transition to a 2nd Trump administration

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/live-blog/2020-11-10-biden-harris-transition-n1247204/ncrd1247291#blogHeader

Trump admin telling federal agencies to continue with Trump's budgets.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/11/10/trump-federal-budget-post-election/

I have amazing news for you. Man is not alone on this planet. He is part of a community, upon which he depends absolutely.
- Ishmael

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3930
  • Earth will survive AGW...but will Homo sapiens?
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 641
  • Likes Given: 383
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2020, 04:43:38 PM »
A major milestone on the road to a Second American Civil War.
AFAIK this is the first time a significant media source has endorsed violence (correct me if I'm wrong).
I am documenting it here for you.
It is, as you might expect, the American Thinker.

Surveying the Aftermath of a Stolen Election
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/surveying_the_aftermath_of_a_stolen_election.html
Quote
In other words, we will become Venezuela-North, caught in a vicious downward spiral of disenfranchisement, tyranny, and impoverishment. With only one option left to restore the nation. A horrible one, one that I am hesitant to state publicly. Let’s hope it never comes to that. Yet, my friend and I agreed that, if the worst is necessary, let it happen soon, before they grab our guns, disrupt our communications, and drag the strongest of us off to some 21st-century gulag. We should all pray for peaceful resolution, but there can be no peaceful resolution with corrupt radicals in charge. We can only make them submit to the rules or be reduced to serfdom.
A few weeks ago, that perspective was best left unspoken. Now, we must speak of it, as it has unfortunately entered the realm of the possible. The electoral theft was so audacious that our opponents seem capable of anything.

How much further down this road will the Right Wing go?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1809
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 384
  • Likes Given: 25
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2020, 06:58:11 PM »
A major milestone on the road to a Second American Civil War.
AFAIK this is the first time a significant media source has endorsed violence (correct me if I'm wrong).
I am documenting it here for you.
It is, as you might expect, the American Thinker.

Surveying the Aftermath of a Stolen Election
How much further down this road will the Right Wing go?

If I might suggest... This forum does not permit climate denial material, or even URLs to climate denial sites. The reason is that doing any of this promotes such denial.

I think we should do the same thing with alt-Right/fascist/NeoNazi material.  Don't quote it, don't link to it.  Talk about what they're doing, if you like.  Have discussions.  But do nothing that remotely promotes this toxic ideology.

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3258
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 587
  • Likes Given: 390
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2020, 07:01:22 PM »
Good idea, Steve!

Same with firmly disproven claims about covid, imho
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1087
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 184
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2020, 08:24:20 PM »
I'm reading now a book by Alicia Garza which talks of this subject.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/17/black-lives-matter-alicia-garza-leadership-today-doesnt-look-like-martin-luther-king
It's quite interesting but I haven't read enough to make more comments.

I already have a first quote to share :
Quote
Winning is about more than being right - it is also about how you invite others to be a part of change they may not have even realized they needed.
It's the last sentence of the chapter four "The first fight", page 83 in the UK edition.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5722
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 796
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2020, 09:15:29 PM »
Re: Don't quote it, don't link to it.

Mmmm. Discuss the alt-righ without quoting or linking to right wing sites. How exactly would that work ? Sorta like discussing a paper but banning links or quotes to the paper.

sidd
 

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6421
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2387
  • Likes Given: 2039
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2020, 10:42:41 PM »
Quote
How much further down this road will the Right Wing go?
I fear "all the way" is the answer.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3930
  • Earth will survive AGW...but will Homo sapiens?
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 641
  • Likes Given: 383
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2020, 11:41:11 PM »
You do not have to click on the link...I provided the relevant quote.
American Thinker is not some barfly yapping his jaws...it is big. I think people here should know they crossed a line today.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3258
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 587
  • Likes Given: 390
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2020, 12:18:02 AM »
This is what wiki points out about it:

"The site has published falsehoods about climate change"

Sooo, it has no place on these threads, imo
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3930
  • Earth will survive AGW...but will Homo sapiens?
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 641
  • Likes Given: 383
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2020, 05:49:40 AM »
They are wrong about AGW. Imho they are right about other things, like American Education.
But they are not here for either. They are here because they have thrown their lot in with the Alt Right with this article. And I think the ASIF should be aware of this.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1087
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 184
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2020, 06:33:37 AM »
They are wrong about AGW. Imho they are right about other things, like American Education.

This is a common strategy. If you are wrong on everything, nobody will believe you.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3930
  • Earth will survive AGW...but will Homo sapiens?
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 641
  • Likes Given: 383
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2020, 12:23:24 PM »
Actually even sources wrong about everything will have some believers. You can fool some of the people all of the time.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

The Walrus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 787
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 106
  • Likes Given: 63
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2020, 04:05:37 PM »
They are wrong about AGW. Imho they are right about other things, like American Education.
But they are not here for either. They are here because they have thrown their lot in with the Alt Right with this article. And I think the ASIF should be aware of this.

IMHO then the should not belong on an AGW thread.  However, this is not an AGW thread, but a political thread within and AGW site.  Since they are better equipped to argue politics than science, it may belong here.  Especially since they are commenting about the subject at hand.  From the little that I have read from them (and it is not much, so others may have a better grasp on this) they are not part of the alt right, although they have some similar conservative beliefs.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3930
  • Earth will survive AGW...but will Homo sapiens?
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 641
  • Likes Given: 383
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2020, 07:14:39 PM »
Until yesterday, Walrus, that was true. They were/are conservative but not violence promoting.
AFAIK this is their first advocation of violence. Even when Obama was elected they were disappointed but talked about what to do in 2012 (and then 2016), not to forcibly overthrow a POTUS election. This is new.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1087
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 184
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2020, 12:36:17 PM »
To come back to the book I'm reading now (https://aliciagarza.com/), one thing she says is that the right has a very good ability to find common point of interests to unite. The left on the other hand tend to be movements specialized on specific issues having many difficulties to unite, everybody thinking that what he suffers is harder than what the others have to support.

Here is a quote in that context, on how to overcome this issue :
Quote
Solidarity can never be expressed by hearing someone's pain  and then turning the conversation back to yourself. Solidarity means trying to understand the way our communities experience unique forms of oppression and marginalization. It means showing up for one another to bear witness and then expanding our fight to include the challenges faced by other communities besides our own. f my best friend tells me that she and her current partner are breaking up, solidarity is not interrupting her tearful testimony to say :" I too have breakups! Let me tell you about my breakup!".  Solidarity is listening, asking questions, and being there for her- for venting sessions, to help her figure out how to rebuild her life, to offer support.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4383
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2477
  • Likes Given: 336
Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #117 on: November 19, 2020, 02:21:00 AM »
Trump Admin Taps Ex-Aide Fired for Ties to Far Right for Commission That Preserves Holocaust Memorials
https://gizmodo.com/trump-admin-taps-ex-aide-fired-for-ties-to-far-right-fo-1845711127

In 2018, the Trump administration fired a White House speechwriter after he was revealed to have spoken at an annual far-right conference in 2016 attended by white supremacists, pseudoscientific quacks, contrarian academics, and other racists. This week, the White House nominated the same guy to a three-year term on a heritage commission that preserves Holocaust memorials.

The White House sent out a press release on Tuesday evening naming the speechwriter in question, Darren Beattie, as a member of the Commission for the Preservation of America’s Heritage Abroad. That commission was formed in the wake of World War II and identifies and helps preserve sites like buildings, monuments, and cemeteries of U.S. cultural heritage throughout Europe—especially those that have been destroyed, damaged, neglected, or otherwise threatened by events like the Nazi murder of more than 6 million Jews and millions of others during the Holocaust. It also helps establish memorialization projects.

Beattie, who identifies as Jewish, lost his original job at the White House after it came to light he had spoken at the 2016 H.L. Mencken Club Conference, named after the viciously racist writer whose work is popular with white supremacists. That conference was a major event in the development of the alt-right and featured a number of far-right personalities who style themselves intellectuals. That included John Derbyshire and Robert Weissberg, two writers fired from the National Review in 2012 for promoting racist viewpoints, and Peter Brimelow, the founder of the xenophobic, anti-immigrant hate site VDARE, which regularly publishes pseudoscientific articles smearing people of various ethnic or racial backgrounds as biological inferiors. (Brimelow is also a National Review alumni, and the H.L. Mencken Club’s leader, Paul Gottfried, was removed as a contributor to the magazine in the 1980s.)
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late