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Ktb

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #150 on: January 09, 2021, 11:03:38 AM »
You are right Walrus. I am outraged. Outraged that nazis and terrorists and traitors could so easily breach, desecrate, and savage the Capitol.

4 “protesters” died you say. I say 4 terrorists died.

The left is protesting for equality and against the murder of unarmed black men and women. The right is protesting a free and fair election while being heavily armed. They are not protesting social and racial injustices. These things are not the same.

Had the police been as heavily armed as at BLM protests, or as at women’s marches, or as at Standing rock then the neonazis and terrorists would not have been able to force entry to the Capitol and they would not have been shot.

Fuck em


And a quick caveat: the police still need to be defunded. The entire system still needs to be reformed.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 11:14:18 AM by Ktb »
And, given a story to enact in which the world is a foe to be conquered, they will conquer it like a foe, and one day, inevitably, their foe will lie bleeding to death at their feet, as the world is now.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #151 on: January 09, 2021, 11:32:27 AM »
Quote
And a quick caveat: the police still need to be defunded. The entire system still needs to be reformed.
These are two different things. Will one lead to the other?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

The Walrus

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #152 on: January 09, 2021, 02:34:12 PM »
Ktb, are you implying that some lives do not matter as much as others?

karl dubhe2

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2021, 02:48:53 AM »
Ktb, are you implying that some lives do not matter as much as others?

I think it's just that if you decide to overthrow the government, you can expect bad things to happen to you.   Those who aren't in favour of overthrowing the government aren't likely to give a damn what happens to those who do try.    Consequences can be fatal.

As to the idea, yes.   Some lives will matter more, but it's always going to depend on the situation.  If you're threatening the lives of others, your life doesn't much matter to me.   Unless there's a damn good reason to threaten those lives.  e.g. Nazis (real ones, and if we're in a law abiding society we're gonna call for them to be imprisoned after a trial.  Not dangled from a lamp post.)

etienne

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2021, 09:19:49 AM »
All lives have the same value, but for example if you drink and drive, the press can't say that you are unlucky, it can only say that you should be careful.

Entering in the context of a mob inside governmental buildings it putting your life at risk. It is a known fact that government usually don't react a non violent way.

Ktb

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2021, 11:13:11 AM »
I’m saying

1. The police should not be judge, jury, and executioner.

2. Breonna Taylor, a black woman shot by police while SLEEPING IN HER OWN HOME DURING A NO KNOCK RAID should still be alive. She did not place herself in an illegal or incriminating position. She was fucking sleeping. The examples go on and on of black people being killed while committing no crimes.

3. If neonazis break in to the Capitol looking for violence, nobody should be surprised when they are met with violence. They committed violent crimes. They should still be alive so they can face criminal charges. But they are not.

Anybody who believes that black and indigenous people being killed while attempting to gain the same level of rights and recognition provided to white people are on the same level as neonazis attacking the US Capitol is a bonafide moron. If you cannot see the difference, you are either too stupid to comprehend, or being purposefully dense.
And, given a story to enact in which the world is a foe to be conquered, they will conquer it like a foe, and one day, inevitably, their foe will lie bleeding to death at their feet, as the world is now.
- Ishmael

ritter

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #156 on: January 11, 2021, 12:42:32 AM »
Anybody who believes that black and indigenous people being killed while attempting to gain the same level of rights and recognition provided to white people are on the same level as neonazis attacking the US Capitol is a bonafide moron. If you cannot see the difference, you are either too stupid to comprehend, or being purposefully dense.

Yup. One cannot assume storming the capitol will be good for one's health. I'm quite frankly stunned that only one fool was shot. And she worked hard for it.

Revolution, insurrection, or whatever you want to call Wednesday's failure was a skin in the game activity.

vox_mundi

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #157 on: January 11, 2021, 06:48:52 PM »
FBI Warns of Armed Group Traveling to DC Later This Week - Report
https://twitter.com/AaronKatersky/status/1348675941309034496

According to ABC News, the FBI has sent a bulleting saying the bureau has “received information about an identified armed group intending to travel to Washington, DC on 16 January.”

The FBI said the group has warned that attempts to remove Donald Trump from office will result in “a huge uprising”.

The report comes amid intensifying concerns about violence around Joe Biden’s inauguration on January 20, after a mob stormed the US Capitol.

The mayor of Washington, Muriel Bowser, said today that she has asked the interior department to cancel any public gathering permits in the city from today until January 24.

-------------------------------------

Alert: FBI Reports Armed Protests Planned for All 50 States
https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshMargolin/status/1348672731286532096
https://www.insidernj.com/alert-fbi-reports-armed-protests-planned-50-states/

‘FBI now reports in a bulletin ‘Armed protests are being planned at all 50 state capitols from 16 January through at least 20 January, and at the US Capitol from 17 January through 20 January.”

The FBI is seeking information that will assist in identifying individuals who are actively instigating violence in Washington, DC. The FBI is accepting tips and digital media depicting rioting and violence in the U.S. Capitol Building and surrounding area in Washington, DC, on January 6, 2021.

https://tips.fbi.gov/digitalmedia/aad18481a3e8f02

----------------------------------------------------------

Mayor Bowser Urges People to Avoid DC as National Guard Plans to Have Up to 15,000 Troops In City
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/11/politics/bowser-avoid-dc-biden-inauguration/index.html

Washington, DC, Mayor Muriel Bowser on Monday urged Americans to avoid the city during President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration next week and to participate virtually following last week's deadly domestic terror attack on the US Capitol.

Meanwhile, the National Guard has plans to have up to 15,000 National Guard troops to meet current and future requests for the inauguration, Gen. Daniel Hokanson, the chief of the National Guard Bureau, said Monday. The dramatic increase in troops comes as law enforcement in the nation's capital and around the country brace for further extremist violence amid the transition of power.

Speaking at a news conference Monday, Bowser stressed that she was concerned about more violent actors potentially coming to the city in the run-up to the inauguration, saying, "if I'm scared of anything, it's for our democracy, because we have very extreme factions in our country that are armed and dangerous."

"Trumpism won't die on January 20," said Bowser, who has asked Trump and acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf to declare a pre-disaster declaration for DC.

The mayor ultimately assessed in a letter to Trump over the weekend that despite the security assets the city has in place, "significant preparedness gaps remain that cannot be remedied without this emergency declaration and direct federal assistance."

Currently there 6,200 National Guard members who already been mobilized in the wake of last week's attack on the Capitol by pro-Trump supporters.

----------------------------------------------------

« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 07:38:55 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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The Walrus

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #158 on: January 11, 2021, 08:20:57 PM »
I’m saying

1. The police should not be judge, jury, and executioner.

2. Breonna Taylor, a black woman shot by police while SLEEPING IN HER OWN HOME DURING A NO KNOCK RAID should still be alive. She did not place herself in an illegal or incriminating position. She was fucking sleeping. The examples go on and on of black people being killed while committing no crimes.

3. If neonazis break in to the Capitol looking for violence, nobody should be surprised when they are met with violence. They committed violent crimes. They should still be alive so they can face criminal charges. But they are not.

Anybody who believes that black and indigenous people being killed while attempting to gain the same level of rights and recognition provided to white people are on the same level as neonazis attacking the US Capitol is a bonafide moron. If you cannot see the difference, you are either too stupid to comprehend, or being purposefully dense.

I agree with all three of your bullet points.  I just fail to see what connection you are trying to make in your last comment. 

wili

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #159 on: January 12, 2021, 09:20:38 PM »
Quote
“I don’t want to be an alarmist,” Beirich said, “but I worry about a mass casualty event at the inauguration.”

In general, Beirich said, whatever Trump’s actions may be in the future, “I don’t see how you can embolden and energize this many people, in what has become an anti-democratic movement, without creating a strong possibility of violence.”

I think we need to be asking for further help from Canada and maybe some other allies.

And as the Trumpists focus on DC and state capitols, Neo-Nazis are looking to take advantage of that mayhem to cause further chaos elsewhere:

Quote
The 17 January date is one focus of protest organizing by Trumpists, with plans for armed protests at state capitols around the country. In the Parler Lifeboat channel on Monday, one Trump supporter responded to a post on the Gateway Pundit site urging people to stay away from the rallies with defiance, writing, “I urge you all to take up arms and show up.”

A subsequent “Million Militia March” planned for inauguration day in Washington DC – which will come at the tail end of three days of protest in the capital, was being pointed to by other accelerationist channels as an opportunity for escalating tension and violence far and wide, while law enforcement were preoccupied with events in Washington DC.

One channel posted an advertisement for a “Million Militia March” scheduled for 20 January in the capital, with the caption: “The Trumpists will be keeping DC and the military busy on the 20th as you can see.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/trump-supporters-rightwing-violent-protest

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vox_mundi

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #160 on: January 13, 2021, 04:02:40 PM »
Link Between Climate Scepticism and Support for Right-Wing Populists – Study
https://phys.org/news/2021-01-link-climate-scepticism-right-wing-populists.html

Clear evidence of a link between people supporting right-wing political parties and climate-change scepticism has been identified in a new study from the University of Oxford and the Leibniz Institute for the Social Sciences.

Based on survey data and tracking web browsing histories from more than 9,000 participants in six countries, including the UK and the US, the Oxford Internet Institute study finds several significant differences in attitudes towards climate change between supporters of populist parties and non-supporters. The study also highlights variations in the websites and content regularly used by supporters and those who do not support the parties.

The researchers found support for right-wing parties is strongly linked to scepticism on climate issues and opposition to climate-friendly policies. The study did not find a link between support for left-wing populist parties and climate change denial, but did observe respondents with less interest in political issues were more likely to be climate-change sceptics.

The study, "Is there a link between Climate Change Scepticism and Populism?" by Dr. Pu Yan, Professor Ralph Schroeder, and Sebastian Stier, is the first of its kind to test four hypotheses concerning political attitudes, climate activism, and online media diets and consumption, to see to what extent those variables have an impact on climate change scepticism.

The researchers also examined the media habits of supporters and non-supporters of populist parties, tracking over 150 million website visits over three months.

Key findings include:

- Supporters of left-wing and right-wing populist parties are more likely to visit news websites for climate change information than non-supporters of populist parties.

- Science related websites account for over a tenth (11%) of non-news domains visited by right-wing populist party supporters.

- Non-supporters of populist parties more likely to visit non-news website domains such as climate-related organisations websites

Professor Ralph Schroeder noted, "Our study shows that populists are highly interested in the politics of climate change. They seek a coherent worldview that bolsters their ideas about climate change and the science of climate change, so that it fits their overall political agenda.

Pu Yan et al. Is there a link between climate change scepticism and populism? An analysis of web tracking and survey data from Europe and the US, Information, Communication & Society (2021).
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1369118X.2020.1864005
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karl dubhe2

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #161 on: January 13, 2021, 04:11:41 PM »
“I don’t want to be an alarmist,” Beirich said, “but I worry about a mass casualty event at the inauguration.”



I think we need to be asking for further help from Canada and maybe some other allies.


Canadian here, we're not going to send troops into your nation.    This is something you guys need to fix.  Preferably without too much bloodshed.    If the violence escalates it'll grow into a civil war, no sane nation gets involved in another nation's civil war.    Sorry.

As far as the Alt-Right is concerned, I think the laws need to be enforced strictly.    They're far more dangerous, at this time, than any leftist group on this f'n planet.   Hell, they just attempted a coup d'etat in the USA, how much more of a threat do they have to prove themselves to be?

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #162 on: January 13, 2021, 04:15:14 PM »
Canadian here, we're not going to send troops into your nation.    This is something you guys need to fix.  Preferably without too much bloodshed.    If the violence escalates it'll grow into a civil war, no sane nation gets involved in another nation's civil war.    Sorry.

As far as the Alt-Right is concerned, I think the laws need to be enforced strictly.    They're far more dangerous, at this time, than any leftist group on this f'n planet.   Hell, they just attempted a coup d'etat in the USA, how much more of a threat do they have to prove themselves to be?

+1

vox_mundi

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #163 on: January 15, 2021, 11:37:22 PM »






“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #164 on: January 16, 2021, 03:24:03 AM »
Leaked Parler Data Points to Users at Police Stations, U.S. Military Bases
https://gizmodo.com/leaked-parler-data-points-to-users-at-police-stations-1846059897

Location data gleaned from thousands of videos posted on the social network Parler and extracted in the days before Amazon restricted access to app this week, reveal its users included police officers around the U.S. and service members stationed on bases at home and abroad.

The presence on Parler of active military and police raises concerns, experts said, about their potential exposure to far-right conspiracy theories and extremist ideologies enabled by the platform’s practically nonexistent moderation and its stated openness to hate speech. Military officials have long considered infiltration and recruitment by white supremacist groups a threat. Groups that endorsed a wide range of racist beliefs appear to have been operating openly on Parler, the experts said, with the de facto permission of its owners. The FBI has likewise raised concerns over law enforcement agents adopting radical views and being recruited—viewing their access to secured buildings, elected officials, and other VIPs as a singular threat.

-----------------------------------------

The FBI Has Quietly Investigated White Supremacist Infiltration of Law Enforcement
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/

White supremacists and other domestic extremists maintain an active presence in U.S. police departments and other law enforcement agencies. A striking reference to that conclusion, notable for its confidence and the policy prescriptions that accompany it, appears in a classified FBI Counterterrorism Policy Guide from April 2015, obtained by The Intercept. The guide, which details the process by which the FBI enters individuals on a terrorism watchlist, the Known or Suspected Terrorist File, notes that “domestic terrorism investigations focused on militia extremists, white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers,” and explains in some detail how bureau policies have been crafted to take this infiltration into account.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/402521/doc-26-white-supremacist-infiltration.pdf

https://fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

https://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-SovereignCitizenIdeology.pdf
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

zenith

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #165 on: January 25, 2021, 02:51:54 PM »
I appreciated the guy dressed up like Esau, from the story of Jacob and Esau.

Capitol Riot ‘Caveman’ From Brooklyn Arrested After Outing Himself
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01/capitol-riot-caveman-aaron-mostofsky-of-brooklyn-arrested.html

The Trump-supporting son of a Brooklyn judge who dressed like a caveman to storm the U.S. Capitol last week was arrested in New York on Tuesday, authorities said — and his big mouth did him in.

"Aaron Mostofsky was both filmed and photographed at the attempted coup, donning fur and a tactical vest with “POLICE” written across the chest. Yeshiva World posted videos that appear to show FBI agents outside a Flatbush residence this morning, carrying what seemed to be the same fur getup Mostofsky sported during the riot. Mostofsky’s father is Shlomo Mostofsky, a Kings County Supreme Court judge and a “prominent figure in the Orthodox Jewish community,” as the New York Post put it."
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etienne

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #166 on: January 25, 2021, 10:36:14 PM »
This is not exactly right. The two co-founders are both Americans, and it happened that they first discussed about it in Jerusalem, but excepted for the fact that they were in Israel, there is no other link with that country. I believe that Breitbart already hat the concept before leaving the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News

The way it is presented here could make people think that Israeli where involved in the conception.

Ktb

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #167 on: January 26, 2021, 05:20:48 AM »


"Artist Matt Furie, creator of the comic character Pepe the Frog, begins an uphill battle to take back his iconic cartoon image from those who used it for their own purposes."

When reading "own purposes", understand that means derogatory, sexist, racist, white nationalist, pro-hitler purposes.
Was an interesting documentary. Good luck to the original creator.
And, given a story to enact in which the world is a foe to be conquered, they will conquer it like a foe, and one day, inevitably, their foe will lie bleeding to death at their feet, as the world is now.
- Ishmael

etienne

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #168 on: January 26, 2021, 07:01:10 AM »
I don't understand how some people can link political non religious actions with a specific religion. We are not talking of the crusades, but of Political Propaganda. I find it very chocking.
I hope nobody thinks that religion could be a vaccine against being an a......

oren

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #169 on: January 26, 2021, 09:46:54 AM »
Since when is it okay to post links to Breitbart? I think it should be removed.

be cause

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #170 on: January 26, 2021, 11:59:39 AM »
Done .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

zenith

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #171 on: January 26, 2021, 03:29:49 PM »
@etienne

You don't understand because you don't read.
https://www.sefaria.org/texts
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zenith

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #172 on: January 26, 2021, 04:06:04 PM »
You want to talk about the alt-right but don't talk about the main propaganda outlets of the alt-right. That makes sense. That the whole apparatus is run by Zionists can't be mentioned.

Trump’s Legacy in Israel
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/donald-trumps-legacy-in-israel

Trump’s alignment with Netanyahu has been so total that, ahead of the U.S. election, sixty-three per cent of Israelis supported Trump, and only seventeen per cent supported Joe Biden, according to a November poll by the Israel Democracy Institute. If Israel were a U.S. state, it would be the “reddest state in the Union,” a column in the left-leaning newspaper Haaretz noted.

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zenith

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #173 on: January 26, 2021, 04:25:38 PM »
@ be cause

You should take down the post that mentions Jacob and Esau too. The only reason you haven't is due to ignorance as to what it's about in Judaism. The guy dressed up as Esau understood what he was doing though.

Tischler was one of a throng of Orthodox Jews who traveled down to Washington, DC, to join mass protests of the election results Wednesday.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/orthodox-jewish-trump-supporters-decry-violence-but-not-movement-that-fueled-it/

Christian Zionists waving Israeli flags, blowing shofars, throngs of orthodox jews - Trump's base that stormed the capitol.
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etienne

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #174 on: January 26, 2021, 06:10:46 PM »
I believe that a church or a religion can only been linked with a behavior if there is a comon agreement inside the group that the behavior is ok, like for the crusades or for the missionaries

If this is not the cases, making a link is stupid or "racist".

oren

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #175 on: January 26, 2021, 06:26:03 PM »
Some of Zenith's posts certainly feel racist.

zenith

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #176 on: January 26, 2021, 10:47:17 PM »
It could be said that the whole global north, global south divide is racist. I'm not interested in in-group out-group tactics and strategies to live my life, but I'm aware of those who are. Both the Sicilian Mafia and the Ndrangheta are criminals as far as I'm concerned. Lions with manes or without manes are all lions to me. If a pride attacks me from the front in daylight or another attacks me in the dark from behind I'm dead either way.

Just because the DPRK has democratic in the name doesn't mean I believe it. 

I'm suggesting that you question your assumptions and do some reading as the day has dawned and there's a pride of lions wandering around in plain sight, and they've grown very bold and arrogant.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 11:13:00 PM by zenith »
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zenith

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #177 on: January 26, 2021, 11:23:48 PM »
@etienne
I don't know what rock you've been hiding under... https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17366045-goliath

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etienne

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #178 on: January 27, 2021, 06:34:31 AM »
Would you describe Robert Lee or P.W. Botha as Christians, I  wouldn't, just like I wouldn't describe Israeli politicians as Jews. You have right wings politicians all over the world, and if Israel has some weird politicians, it has nothing to do with the Jewish religion, more with a difficult national and international situation. I don't know the details, but I use soap made in Nablus.

zenith

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #179 on: January 27, 2021, 04:10:36 PM »
You're operating under the false assumption that you understand what Judaism is about. If you won't read I can't help you.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/756399/jewish/The-613-Commandments-Mitzvot.htm
look up amalek on youtube to hear how that's interpreted.

"Christianity" is an absolute mess.

Welcome to the alt-right... "all the world is a stage..."
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 04:35:36 PM by zenith »
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be cause

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #180 on: January 27, 2021, 05:16:30 PM »
.. except ASIF .. take a hike or a holiday , zenith , as your posts over the next while will be going AWOL . b.c.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 06:24:32 PM by be cause »
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #181 on: February 08, 2021, 01:14:49 PM »
I am certainly not alt-Right.
But am I Right or Left?
I am "Right" on right-to-life.
I am "Left" on environmentalism
I am "Right" on transgenderism.
I am "Left" on immigration.
I am "Right" on same sex marriages.
I am "Left" on racial equality and helping minorities get ahead.
When a pollster calls and asks if I am Conservative or Liberal, I keep saying "Catholic". It drives them nuts.
I do not agree with either political party.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

be cause

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #182 on: February 08, 2021, 07:56:08 PM »
with God generously giving some folks a diversity of sex chromosomes , eg XXY , who are you or any misguided sect to declare God's work 'wrong' ?
You would rather prevent abortions in the name of God while here in Ireland we dig up the bodies of babies
 in septic tanks and pits ; torn from their unmarried mothers arms by nuns and priests and allowed to die in their thousands in the name of your God . You oppose the rights of women !
 Get out of other people's bedrooms and let them get on with their God given right to enjoy their sexuality in any way . God is with them in everything they do . Listen to Jesus , not Catholicism . Judge Not .. it's easy if you try .. much easier in fact than the contortions you must do to be Catholic in God's world of free will .
 Then you will find the more left you are the more 'right' you feel . b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #183 on: February 08, 2021, 11:58:25 PM »
Because our fallen nature leaves us subject to physical disorders, such as XXY males (who are males, not hermaphrodites or neuters).
Moses and Paul have spoken on Same sex relations.
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Sebastian Jones

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #184 on: February 09, 2021, 02:20:33 AM »
I am certainly not alt-Right.
But am I Right or Left?
I am "Right" on right-to-life.
I am "Left" on environmentalism
I am "Right" on transgenderism.
I am "Left" on immigration.
I am "Right" on same sex marriages.
I am "Left" on racial equality and helping minorities get ahead.
When a pollster calls and asks if I am Conservative or Liberal, I keep saying "Catholic". It drives them nuts.
I do not agree with either political party.


So, 'Right' means 'No' and 'Left' means 'Yes'.
Makes sense, I suppose when you think of Nancy Reagan's 'Just say no' campaign against drugs.

The Walrus

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #185 on: February 09, 2021, 03:10:15 AM »
I am certainly not alt-Right.
But am I Right or Left?
I am "Right" on right-to-life.
I am "Left" on environmentalism
I am "Right" on transgenderism.
I am "Left" on immigration.
I am "Right" on same sex marriages.
I am "Left" on racial equality and helping minorities get ahead.
When a pollster calls and asks if I am Conservative or Liberal, I keep saying "Catholic". It drives them nuts.
I do not agree with either political party.

I share many of your beliefs, am catholic also, and support neither party.  There are universal truths, not that I can say with any confidence that I know what they are.  But I feel compelled to continue to search for them, and I do so from both a scientific and spiritual direction.  I find that those on either end of the political spectrum seem to think that they know these truths, but on closer inspection, they seem to be deluding themselves.  The same appears to be applicable to some posters here.

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #186 on: February 09, 2021, 05:28:26 AM »
b.c., theological and religious arguments are outside the context of this forum (and are useless anyway).

etienne

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #187 on: February 09, 2021, 07:06:26 AM »


Might be shocking for some, but faith can't be over science and facts. It can have an added value, give a sense for example to life, but faith shouldn't lie on reality, climate change, election results...  reality has to inspire faith, but not the opposite. Ok God created Adam and Eva, but it is science that explains how, and if we have reached now the age of limits, faith has to acknowledge it.
There is no limit to God, but there are many limits on earth. These are two different things, you can't compare, we won't get a new one once it is broken.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 07:20:27 AM by etienne »

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #188 on: February 09, 2021, 03:25:26 PM »
During the Trump Era I heard/read things like "Anyone who voted for Trump should be killed.". Now I hear/read "Anyone who voted for Biden should be killed.". This is not how it was when I was growing up. Heck, it isn't even like it was when I was middle-aged. Could we have a second ACW?
I used to say no, because we don't have red states and blue states like in 1860...we have various tinges of purple. But then I realized that the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s also was like that.
If we do, it will be the first Civil War in a nuclear superpower. Best outcome would be a breakup of the US like the 1990s USSR (but then who gets the nukes?). Worst case doesn't bear thinking of.
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The Walrus

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #189 on: February 09, 2021, 07:51:42 PM »

Might be shocking for some, but faith can't be over science and facts. It can have an added value, give a sense for example to life, but faith shouldn't lie on reality, climate change, election results...  reality has to inspire faith, but not the opposite. Ok God created Adam and Eva, but it is science that explains how, and if we have reached now the age of limits, faith has to acknowledge it.
There is no limit to God, but there are many limits on earth. These are two different things, you can't compare, we won't get a new one once it is broken.

Faith and reality are not opposites.  They are complements.  Those that profess to have one without the other are deficient.  Science and religion are similar in their aim; to seek the truth.  Science does it through the natural world, religion through the spiritual (we can add philosophy through the intellectual also).  The goals is the same, just the paths are different.  When one tries to apply one branch to the path of another, difficulties arise as the application is outside the bounds of the original path. 

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #190 on: February 12, 2021, 06:29:18 PM »
During the Trump Era I heard/read things like "Anyone who voted for Trump should be killed.". Now I hear/read "Anyone who voted for Biden should be killed.". This is not how it was when I was growing up. Heck, it isn't even like it was when I was middle-aged. Could we have a second ACW?
I used to say no, because we don't have red states and blue states like in 1860...we have various tinges of purple. But then I realized that the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s also was like that.
If we do, it will be the first Civil War in a nuclear superpower. Best outcome would be a breakup of the US like the 1990s USSR (but then who gets the nukes?). Worst case doesn't bear thinking of.

Not too long ago i read a theory about cycles of violence. If people have an active memory like just after WW2 they are much more inclined compromise.

The article is probably either in Empire USA or somewhere above.

Of course there are also many other factors which basically boil down to concentrated wealth hunting it´s interest over that of the people.

I think the lines are to diffuse for a civil war but that does not rule out serious violence and domestic terrorism.

For some reason it is impossible to build a coalition of sensible people that goes: ok lets cut the crap and get some important things done. Lets renovate the infrastructure on the timescale it needs. So you have to repair many sewers and roads and some tunnels. This provides tons of jobs. Then you have to plug some wells which the industry forgot (free jobs) and build out green infrastructure (more well paying local jobs). Might be some challenging super fund projects for even more jobs including high end ones.

Then sort of maybe look into a health care system which does not fatally cripple you when you need it at the end of your live, or alternatively one that is actually more affordable and fair.

You can look at all the discontent and wonder about civil wars or wonder where it came from and see what could be done to mend it.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #191 on: February 13, 2021, 07:39:42 AM »
So Gina Carano of The Mandalorian was fired from the show for her tweets (which IMO were pretty disgusting). She tweeted that modern day republicans are treated as abhorrently by the progressive left as the Jews were treated by nazis during the holocaust.

I AM NOT STATING THAT SHE IS ALT-RIGHTmerely that she traffics in the common rhetoric of the alt-right. In this instance, mainly the downplaying of the holocaust. This is one of the tricky things though, how do you determine dog-whistle bigotry from conspiracy theory crockery?

I believe we are very close to witnessing a real neo-nazi coming forward and saying that modern day nazis are treated worse than Jews were treated by nazis during the holocaust. And that person will not see any irony in their statement.
And, given a story to enact in which the world is a foe to be conquered, they will conquer it like a foe, and one day, inevitably, their foe will lie bleeding to death at their feet, as the world is now.
- Ishmael

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #192 on: February 15, 2021, 09:34:33 AM »
Some interesting perspectives on the origins of the modern religious right, here, I think:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #193 on: February 15, 2021, 03:31:51 PM »
wili,

I already posted that article in this thread back in November, just after the election:

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3306.msg292777.html#msg292777

Still happy to see it get more exposure. Along with the work of David Neiwert, Francis Schaffer and others, more understanding of the radical and theocratic roots of modern Republican and Alt-Right strategy is always better.

vox_mundi

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #194 on: February 22, 2021, 02:42:22 PM »
People With Extremist Views Less Able to Do Complex Mental Tasks, Research Suggests
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/feb/22/people-with-extremist-views-less-able-to-do-complex-mental-tasks-research-suggests

Our brains hold clues for the ideologies we choose to live by, according to research, which has suggested that people who espouse extremist attitudes tend to perform poorly on complex mental tasks.

Researchers from the University of Cambridge sought to evaluate whether cognitive disposition – differences in how information is perceived and processed – sculpt ideological world-views such as political, nationalistic and dogmatic beliefs, beyond the impact of traditional demographic factors like age, race and gender.

The study, built on previous research, included more than 330 US-based participants aged 22 to 63 who were exposed to a battery of tests – 37 neuropsychological tasks and 22 personality surveys – over the course of two weeks.

The tasks were engineered to be neutral, not emotional or political – they involved, for instance, memorising visual shapes. The researchers then used computational modelling to extract information from that data about the participant’s perception and learning, and their ability to engage in complex and strategic mental processing.

Overall, the researchers found that ideological attitudes mirrored cognitive decision-making, according to the study published in the journal Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B.

“Individuals or brains that struggle to process and plan complex action sequences may be more drawn to extreme ideologies, or authoritarian ideologies that simplify the world.”

A key finding was that people with extremist attitudes tended to think about the world in black and white terms, and struggled with complex tasks that required intricate mental steps, said lead author Dr Leor Zmigrod at Cambridge’s department of psychology.

She said another feature of people with tendencies towards extremism appeared to be that they were not good at regulating their emotions, meaning they were impulsive and tended to seek out emotionally evocative experiences. “And so that kind of helps us understand what kind of individual might be willing to go in and commit violence against innocent others.”

Participants who are prone to dogmatism – stuck in their ways and relatively resistant to credible evidence – actually have a problem with processing evidence even at a perceptual level, the authors found.

... “It’s fascinating, because conservatism is almost a synonym for caution,” she said. “We’re seeing that – at the very basic neuropsychological level – individuals who are politically conservative … simply treat every stimuli that they encounter with caution.”

The “psychological signature” for extremism across the board was a blend of conservative and dogmatic psychologies, the researchers said.

The cognitive and perceptual correlates of ideological attitudes: a data-driven approach
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2020.0424
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The Walrus

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #195 on: February 22, 2021, 03:39:45 PM »
I am not surprised that people entrenched in dogmas at the ends of the political spectrum "have a problem processing evidence at a perceptual level."  People who are conservative are more resisted to change, and it makes sense that they would "treat every stimuli they encounter with caution."  Seems like the moderates do have an advantage. 

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #196 on: April 14, 2021, 12:52:56 AM »
The Rise of Domestic Extremism In America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-terrorism-data/

Domestic terrorism incidents have soared to new highs in the United States, driven chiefly by white-supremacist, anti-Muslim and anti-government extremists on the far right, according to a Washington Post analysis of data compiled by the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The surge reflects a growing threat from homegrown terrorism not seen in a quarter-century, with right-wing extremist attacks and plots greatly eclipsing those from the far left and causing more deaths, the analysis shows.

Since 2015, right-wing extremists have been involved in 267 plots or attacks and 91 fatalities, the data shows. At the same time, attacks and plots ascribed to far-left views accounted for 66 incidents leading to 19 deaths.

More than a quarter of right-wing incidents and just under half of the deaths in those incidents were caused by people who showed support for white supremacy or claimed to belong to groups espousing that ideology, the analysis shows.

Victims of all incidents in recent years represent a broad cross-section of American society, including Blacks, Jews, immigrants, LGBTQ individuals, Asians and other people of color who have been attacked by right-wing extremists wielding vehicles, guns, knives and fists.

... The Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol spurred renewed national attention on domestic terrorism and on hate-driven violence. ...

Report: https://www.csis.org/analysis/military-police-and-rise-terrorism-united-states
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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #197 on: April 14, 2021, 08:37:08 PM »
People With Extremist Views Less Able to Do Complex Mental Tasks, Research Suggests

Does this include the typical super-woke liberal idiot? Not strictly alt-right to find people with poor cognitive disposition and ideological dogmatic beliefs.

Sebastian Jones

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #198 on: April 15, 2021, 06:13:10 PM »
People With Extremist Views Less Able to Do Complex Mental Tasks, Research Suggests

Does this include the typical super-woke liberal idiot? Not strictly alt-right to find people with poor cognitive disposition and ideological dogmatic beliefs.

Umm, if they are typical, they are not extreme....
But of course, people with poor cognitive disposition and ideological dogmatic beliefs are not confined to the extreme right, and nobody said so.

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Re: The Alt Right
« Reply #199 on: April 16, 2021, 11:44:00 AM »
Quote
But of course, people with poor cognitive disposition and ideological dogmatic beliefs are not confined to the extreme right, and nobody said so.
I would expect this as well, but very little of science is "of course". Until you check, it is imaginable that there may be something about culture or psychology that makes far left different from far right in this regard. Counterintuitive results do happen.
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