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Tom_Mazanec

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Biden’s Presidency
« on: November 07, 2020, 10:00:28 PM »
Will Biden be distracted from combatting AGW by C-19 the way Obama was by Health Care and the Economy?
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2020, 11:37:27 PM »
Cross posted from my post in the Science subforum:

The Parable of Mr. Smith

Mr. Smith is in his early thirties. He lives in the small house he inherited a few years ago when his parents were killed in an auto accident. He works at a full time minimum wage job.
In the spring he feels an ache somewhere in his body, but the water heater broke and he has to have it replaced. He takes a temporary part-time moonlight job to pay for it. In the summer the ache is worse, but the air conditioner breaks so he buys a new one...part time job continues. Then fall comes and his car breaks down. He continues working 60 hours a week even though the pain is getting severe. By winter the heater breaks down and what with other things he is working 60 hour weeks while in excruciating agony. Finally he cannot stand it anymore and takes time off for the doctor.
The doctor says to him "I believe in doing this quickly. If you had come to me a year ago, maybe even six months ago you could have been cured, and have a normal life expectancy. Now maybe a month or two. I have a list of hospices..."

Understand, with the narrowness of the election and covid preferentially killing Trump's elderly base and further showing up his incompetence I believe Trump would have won a narrow victory if Patient Zero had never contacted covid. So Biden probably owes his election to a SARS-CoV-2 virion particle somewhere in China last year. But if short term problems distract him we may lose a chance to solve a big long term one. And AGW is a high hanging fruit on the tree. It is easy to get people upset when the air stinks and colors clothing while the river burns (The Flats and Cuyahoga River in Cleveland), but GHGs are colorless and odorless and harder to get out of the industrial economy.
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oren

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2020, 11:56:06 PM »
I'm afraid Biden will be distracted from most everything by an opposing partisan Senate.

The Walrus

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2020, 12:23:17 AM »
Will Biden be distracted from combatting AGW by C-19 the way Obama was by Health Care and the Economy?

In short, yes.  Whether you call it a distract or high priority is a matter of perspective.  He ran largely on combating the virus, so much will be expected from him.  Additionally, the economy and how it is affected by COVID will be at the top of his list. 

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2020, 02:01:01 AM »
remember the discussions when bernie was in the race. I expect Biden to reverse most of the damage to policy done by trump but I don't expect an climate crusader. Biden adopted stronger rhetoric on the environment for the campaign. Biden is in his 70's old people do not change much.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2020, 02:57:10 AM »
Just cleaning out the Trump swamp dwelling appointees to the EPA et al and replacing with persons on board with the modern world will make one hell of a difference.
As will the USA rejoining the IPCC and reinstating the USA standing on the world stage.
We do not need Biden himself to lead the crusade against AGW what we need is for him to make appointments that will do so .
 
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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2020, 03:34:02 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if Joe retires after 2 years .. 50 years of service .. and hands the reins to the VP .. I don't know if there is precedent ? If not , this is the era of the unprecedented  and i would love to see it happen .
  Can Trump pardon himself as he leaves office or would he need to hand over to Pence and have him do it ? Unprecedented ?
  b.c.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2020, 03:46:56 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if Joe retires after 2 years .. 50 years of service .. and hands the reins to the VP .. I don't know if there is precedent ? If not , this is the era of the unprecedented  and i would love to see it happen .
  Can Trump pardon himself as he leaves office or would he need to hand over to Pence and have him do it ? Unprecedented ?
  b.c.
Closest would be Nixon and Ford in the 1970s.
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2020, 04:38:44 AM »
Ford was a Republican pardoning a republican President .

A Presidential Pardon is only for federal crimes.
Trump will be facing prosecution for illegal activity in New York and other  jurisdictions  that is not at a federal level.

I fully expect of string of indictments as soon as the inauguration of Biden occurs, pardoned or not.
Trump will be tied up in court cases for years to come even if he does bail so Pence can pardon him for federal crimes .

The Girl* tells me in her professional opinion Trump will not stand down as his narcissistic personalty disorder will make him unable  to deal with the concept of  defeat
* Senior lecturer in counselling and a view shared among her peers . 
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2020, 04:55:17 AM »
I know there are big differences, that's why I said "closest".
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Sebastian Jones

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2020, 05:00:55 AM »
In reply to your opening question Tom, I'd say not. He can walk and chew gum at the same time; he can form a competent COVID team and bring America back into Paris both.
Ironically, in America, Covid is so out of control that nothing short of a Melbourne style lockdown will work now, and there are too many Covid deniers in America for that to work (how weird is it that the country with far and away the worst epidemic has any deniers at all?), so Trump's waiting for a vaccine to miraculously heal it may be the best strategy now.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2020, 05:50:42 AM »
I was not thinking that he can't walk and chew gum at the same time, I was thinking that a POTUS has a certain amount of political capital and power, and if it is focused on one issue it will not be devoted to another.
Obama announced 'this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal' but GHGs kept rising while he concentrated on healthcare and the economy.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 04:36:35 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
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WildFit

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2020, 02:02:37 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if Joe retires after 2 years .. 50 years of service .. and hands the reins to the VP .. I don't know if there is precedent ? If not , this is the era of the unprecedented  and i would love to see it happen .
  Can Trump pardon himself as he leaves office or would he need to hand over to Pence and have him do it ? Unprecedented ?
  b.c.

No but he can step down a few weeks before his term ends and let Pence pardon him.

Would be a smart move but then he obviously is not smart but foxy and devious.

Question will be whether his EGO will let him do what's best for him, in the past that most of the time was not the case.


For some of his doings he would first have to lift them on federal levels for a POTUS pardon to be effective.

The Walrus

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2020, 02:09:20 PM »
In reply to your opening question Tom, I'd say not. He can walk and chew gum at the same time; he can form a competent COVID team and bring America back into Paris both.
Ironically, in America, Covid is so out of control that nothing short of a Melbourne style lockdown will work now, and there are too many Covid deniers in America for that to work (how weird is it that the country with far and away the worst epidemic has any deniers at all?), so Trump's waiting for a vaccine to miraculously heal it may be the best strategy now.

ON a per capita basis, COVID cases in America are similar to Europe.  Not sure what you mean by COVID deniers.  Everyone seems to agree that it exists, is widespread and is a growing concern.  There is a disagreement as to how best to proceed.  Is that what you mean?

Bruce Steele

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2020, 03:01:37 PM »
Tom, “Obama announced the seas would stop rising in his administration“
Care to back up your bullshit with a source?

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2020, 03:34:13 PM »
Tom, “Obama announced the seas would stop rising in his administration“
Care to back up your bullshit with a source?

It was my memory of this:
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2020, 04:31:32 PM »
Tom, Care to fix your quote with what Obama said ? Because slowing sea level rise might have actually been possible if we had acted. We all know you had other priorities and voted against Obama anyway but you could at least quote him correctly.

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2020, 04:37:22 PM »
Tom, “Obama announced the seas would stop rising in his administration“
Care to back up your bullshit with a source?

Before you make false accusations, you should do a little careful research.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/547906-this-was-the-moment-when-the-rise-of-the-oceans

Otherwise, you end up with egg on your face.  I think you owe Tom an apology.


I think not ! ..  b.c.

p.s. .. op deleted .
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

gerontocrat

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2020, 04:40:19 PM »
Tom, “Obama announced the seas would stop rising in his administration“
Care to back up your bullshit with a source?
Unfortunately, not entirely bullshit. Sea level rise appears to be accelerating, not slowing.

Even on this side of the pond many of us had high hopes in November 2008, but Obama was one person having to negotiate deals with a Congress stuffed full of corporate politicians of both hues owing too many favours to big business. So money had to be thrown at the financial crisis. Very little went to
- modernising infrastructure through repair and replacement,
- giving renewable energy industries a boost.
- giving people work directly.

An awful lot of it went to making sure rich people got richer and poor people did not. Sounds like what's happening again now? And after 2 years he lost his power as he lost control over Congress. So just bits and pieces since then as he resorted to Executive Order powers to make a difference. End of a sad story.

Biden
- reduce the pace of damage? Yes.
- reduce USA CO2 emissions? Yes.
Consensus = modest progress, so the frog will not notice the heat gradually being turned up underneath the pan.



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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2020, 04:43:44 PM »
Done.
Of course it would have been possible if we had acted. But we didn't. Obama did not make it a priority, that is my point. If he had expended all his effort into getting us to act instead of saving the economy and fixing healthcare it would have been different.
I saw a cartoon on this forum. A couple waders are looking at a little ripple labeled "Covid-19" washing ashore in front of them. Behind them is a cresting tsunami labeled "Global Warming". The caption was something like (can't remember the exact wording, Bruce) "Well, at least we survived the wave."
I expect this forum as a whole regards AGW as a bigger problem than C-19. I suspect Biden may disagree.
EDIT: BTW I did not quote him I paraphrased him (since I did not remember the exact words). That's why i did not use quote marks.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 04:51:11 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
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oren

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2020, 04:55:25 PM »
Blaming Obama makes sense if you voted for him. If you voted against him, and considering he was almost powerless specifically because he lacked congress majority, the complaint rings hollow.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2020, 04:59:16 PM »
It's not "blaming" or "complaining". It is an illustration of what I am afraid Biden's presidency is going to feature.
Abortion and AGW are America's two biggest problems imho. I lost on my number one issue, and I would like to think I had at least won on my number two issue. But I am afraid what happened with Obama and AGW is going to happen with Biden and AGW.
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karl dubhe2

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2020, 05:11:40 PM »
As with Obama, and the previous presidents, I'll wish the man and his administration lots of luck; they'll need it.


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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2020, 05:20:40 PM »
Quote
... I expect this forum as a whole regards AGW as a bigger problem than C-19. I suspect Biden may disagree.

Problems are not binary unless that's all you can see.

If you only look at problems through binary glasses, you will fail to see that functional administrations can work on more than one problem at a time.

Biden's Climate Change Mitigation Map
https://buildbackbetter.com/priorities/climate-change/

Climate change poses an existential threat — not just to our environment, but to our health, our communities, our national security, and our economic well-being.

At this moment of profound crisis, we have the opportunity to build a more resilient, sustainable economy — one that will put the United States on an irreversible path to achieve net-zero emissions, economy-wide, by no later than 2050.

....

Power Sector: Move ambitiously to generate clean, American-made electricity to achieve a carbon pollution-free power sector by 2035.

...

Agriculture and Conservation: Create jobs in climate-smart agriculture, resilience, and conservation, including 250,000 jobs plugging abandoned oil and natural gas wells and reclaiming abandoned coal, hardrock, and uranium mines — providing good work with a choice to join or continue membership in a union in hardhit communities, including rural communities, reducing leakage of toxics, and preventing local environmental damage.

...

Environmental Justice: Ensure that environmental justice is a key consideration in where, how, and with whom we build — creating good, union, middle-class jobs in communities left behind, righting wrongs in communities that bear the brunt of pollution, and lifting up the best ideas from across our great nation — rural, urban, and tribal.

...

... In the meantime, Mitch McConnell the GOP and MAGA will do everything in their power to stop him
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

AbruptSLR

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2020, 05:46:47 PM »
Stacey Abrams has a plan to give the Democrats control of the Senate due to the two upcoming runoff races on January 5, 2021.  If the Democrats win these two runoff races then Kamal Harris will give them them a 51 to 50 vote majority and Mitch McConnell will no longer be the Senate Majority Leader.  The Democrats need to refocus to make this happen.

Title: "Abrams says Georgia Democratic Senate candidates can 'absolutely' win runoff races"

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/525015-abrams-says-democratic-senate-candidates-can-absolutely-win-runoff-races

Extract: "CNN’s Jake Tapper noted to Abrams on “State of the Union” that typically runoff races have a lower turnout compared to general elections and President Trump won’t be on the top of the ticket to mobilize voters.

But Abrams expressed confidence that Democrats have a chance to win both Senate races in Georgia that have moved to runoff elections.

“I want to push back against this anachronistic notion that we can’t win in Georgia,” she said.
Abrams said the runoff election has two Democratic candidates, Jon Ossoff and Rev. Raphael Warnock, who will be “working together to make certain voters come back.” She added the races will have more support from the Democratic Party due to the stakes of possibly controlling the Senate.

“This is going to be the determining factor of whether we have access to health care and access to justice in the United States,” she said. “Those are two issues that will make certain people will turn out.""
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2020, 06:00:24 PM »
Quote
At this moment of profound crisis, we have the opportunity to build a more resilient, sustainable economy — one that will put the United States on an irreversible path to achieve net-zero emissions, economy-wide, by no later than 2050.
I will turn 92 in that year if I make it.
AbruptSLR, if the Senate is 50-50, does that mean that there is no majority leader? Or does the VPOTUS' party decide it?
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The Walrus

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2020, 06:13:29 PM »
Stacey Abrams has a plan to give the Democrats control of the Senate due to the two upcoming runoff races on January 5, 2021.  If the Democrats win these two runoff races then Kamal Harris will give them them a 51 to 50 vote majority and Mitch McConnell will no longer be the Senate Majority Leader.  The Democrats need to refocus to make this happen.

Title: "Abrams says Georgia Democratic Senate candidates can 'absolutely' win runoff races"

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/525015-abrams-says-democratic-senate-candidates-can-absolutely-win-runoff-races

Extract: "CNN’s Jake Tapper noted to Abrams on “State of the Union” that typically runoff races have a lower turnout compared to general elections and President Trump won’t be on the top of the ticket to mobilize voters.

But Abrams expressed confidence that Democrats have a chance to win both Senate races in Georgia that have moved to runoff elections.

“I want to push back against this anachronistic notion that we can’t win in Georgia,” she said.
Abrams said the runoff election has two Democratic candidates, Jon Ossoff and Rev. Raphael Warnock, who will be “working together to make certain voters come back.” She added the races will have more support from the Democratic Party due to the stakes of possibly controlling the Senate.

“This is going to be the determining factor of whether we have access to health care and access to justice in the United States,” she said. “Those are two issues that will make certain people will turn out.""

I would call this a long shot, but not out if the realm of possibilities.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2020, 06:16:34 PM »
Tom, Thanks but where did you fix your quote ? Saying we could “slow” sea level rise if we were to act isn’t the same as stopping sea level rise. When you put words with someone’s name you should use the words they used not your interpretation. Please fix your quote.
 Walrus , I noticed you deleted your post. Bad form . Maybe you should apologize but since you are patient with us radicals i’ll let it pass. I kinda like having a few republicans around. Too bad we Dems didn’t get the Senate back so we could see if the US might respond to global warming. Two democrat Senators from Georgia might be more than any runoff can produce, but I guess the odds aren’t much worse than slowing sea level rise. We are here watching the Arctic melt out. The ensuing Alberto flip is gonna seal the deal on sea level rise for a few tens of thousands of years and nothing will change that in the time we have left . ~35 years. Maybe we could have bought another decade or two back in 2008.
IMO we should be planning our descent and not hoping for miracles.
 

 

AbruptSLR

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2020, 06:21:46 PM »
...
AbruptSLR, if the Senate is 50-50, does that mean that there is no majority leader? Or does the VPOTUS' party decide it?

The linked article explains that V.P. Harris with a 50-50 Senate would make Chuck Schumer the new Senate Majority Leader, but it also describes the political leverage that this would give to potentially rogue senators on both sides:

Title: "A 50-50 Senate: Democrats in power but not control"

https://www.axios.com/democrats-50-50-senate-b7651b3a-3d91-4c8c-ac32-5059a03b9bef.html

Extract: " A President Biden would need a Senate majority to make good on many of his campaign promises.

That would happen only if Democrats make the bank shot of winning two likely Senate runoff races in Georgia in early January, climbing from the minority to a 50-50 split in the next Congress — with a Vice President Kamala Harris breaking tie votes.

•   That power, enshrined in the Constitution, would allow Sen. Chuck Schumer to act as majority leader, but Schumer would have to broker a deal with Sen. Mitch McConnell about everything from floor procedures to committee seats.

•   Democrats would still need to win 50 votes for any major institutional rule changes or big spending packages, and they'd need buy-in from potential rogue Democrats like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

•   Outlying Republicans such as Mitt Romney, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski could also hold leverage over their own party on narrow votes."
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gerontocrat

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2020, 06:32:46 PM »
...
AbruptSLR, if the Senate is 50-50, does that mean that there is no majority leader? Or does the VPOTUS' party decide it?

The linked article explains that V.P. Harris with a 50-50 Senate would make Chuck Schumer the new Senate Majority Leader, but it also describes the political leverage that this would give to potentially rogue senators on both sides:

Title: "A 50-50 Senate: Democrats in power but not control"

https://www.axios.com/democrats-50-50-senate-b7651b3a-3d91-4c8c-ac32-5059a03b9bef.html

Extract: " A President Biden would need a Senate majority to make good on many of his campaign promises.

just about anything must be better than Mitch McConnell running the Senate, a 100% vile thing that he is.
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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2020, 06:40:14 PM »
Tom, Thanks but where did you fix your quote ? Saying we could “slow” sea level rise if we were to act isn’t the same as stopping sea level rise. When you put words with someone’s name you should use the words they used not your interpretation. Please fix your quote.
 Walrus , I noticed you deleted your post. Bad form . Maybe you should apologize but since you are patient with us radicals i’ll let it pass. I kinda like having a few republicans around. Too bad we Dems didn’t get the Senate back so we could see if the US might respond to global warming. Two democrat Senators from Georgia might be more than any runoff can produce, but I guess the odds aren’t much worse than slowing sea level rise. We are here watching the Arctic melt out. The ensuing Alberto flip is gonna seal the deal on sea level rise for a few tens of thousands of years and nothing will change that in the time we have left . ~35 years. Maybe we could have bought another decade or two back in 2008.
IMO we should be planning our descent and not hoping for miracles.
 

 

Bruce, yes I did not notice the subtly difference between slow and stop.  Still I thought your response was much too harsh for the post.  Sea level rise has neither slowed nor stopped.  Actually, I am neither dem nor rep and have been known to vote for either or in some cases, neither.  Glad to hear you like to have dissenting voices around.

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2020, 06:57:05 PM »
Quote
Tom, Thanks but where did you fix your quote ? Saying we could “slow” sea level rise if we were to act isn’t the same as stopping sea level rise. When you put words with someone’s name you should use the words they used not your interpretation. Please fix your quote.
I removed my paraphrase and copy pasted Obama's original words in the two times I recall paraphrasing him.
Where do I still say he would stop as opposed to slowing SLR?
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2020, 08:12:36 PM »
Tom, Done ,Thanks.

gandul

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2020, 11:40:14 PM »
I’d think it would be good Biden is mentally incompetent, if it wasn’t because the VP looks like a sociopath to me.

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2020, 07:04:02 AM »
I’d think it would be good Biden is mentally incompetent, if it wasn’t because the VP looks like a sociopath to me.

No evidence of that at all, did you watch Bidens speach ?

It was delivered with full meaningful coherent sentences in a strong confident voice.
(Even correcting his stutter mid sentence)

He seemed to be talking direct to the audience without pause to look at the teleprompter.
This was certainly not the performance of a man lacking any mental competence.

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2020, 01:02:11 PM »
Are the True Trumpists extreme enough to try to assassinate him? I hope he does not go out in public like earlier POTUSs have.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2020, 06:00:22 PM »
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/21547245/joe-biden-wins-2020-climate-change-clean-energy-policy
Joe Biden will be president, but there will be no Green New Deal
Without Congress, he’ll be limited to executive action, just like Obama.

Quote
[size=9
pt]Much of the sweeping climate agenda in the plan requires legislation, which is not going to be possible with Mitch McConnell in charge of the Senate. There is some slim chance Democrats in the House and Republicans in the Senate can work together to pass more stimulus, or do something on infrastructure (which could include plenty of climate-friendly stuff), but the most likely result is that McConnell continues his strategy of scorched-earth partisan warfare and nothing but essential budget bills pass.

Biden can make climate progress without Congress

But there is an enormous amount that Biden can do with the presidency alone.

He can immediately begin reversing Trump’s massive deregulatory moves, restoring the more than 125 rules Trump has reversed or weakened.

He can instruct the Environmental Protection Agency to develop a more ambitious version of Obama’s Clean Power Plan for the electricity sector, to work toward his goal of net-zero emissions electricity by 2035, and the Department of Transportation to develop, as his plan promises, “rigorous new fuel economy standards aimed at ensuring 100% of new sales for light- and medium-duty vehicles will be electrified.” He can grant California the waiver it needs (which Trump is now in court trying to block) to pursue its own ambitious vehicle standards.

He can end Trump’s oil and gas development bender on public land, reimposing protections and encouraging safe development of renewable energy, and restore the “waters of the United States” (WOTUS) rule to prevent water pollution. He can restore and strengthen the rules on methane leakage from oil and gas operations that Trump rolled back.

One of the most important structural moves Biden can make is to use the powers granted to him by the Dodd-Frank financial reform legislation to ensure that the Federal Reserve, and the financial system more broadly, takes climate risk into account, channeling investment away from carbon-intensive projects.

If he is feeling particularly bold, it is within Biden’s powers to declare climate change a national security emergency, which would give him the power to implement industrial policy directly, boosting the production of electric vehicles, EV charging infrastructure, long-distance electricity transmission lines, solar panels, or other materiel needed to address the emergency.

Perhaps most importantly, Biden can reassure America’s international partners that it is back in the climate game. His foreign policy powers as president are limited only by his ambition. Rejoining the Paris agreement is only the first step.

Beyond that, he could rejoin the World Health Organization and push it to better address climate health risks. He could convene smaller “clubs” of willing nations to hasten the development of key clean energy technologies or develop policies to address environmental migration. He could push forward international agreements around hydrofluorocarbons, deforestation, plastics, or other climate-adjacent issues.

There’s no way around it, though: To implement anything close to what’s needed, to muster the necessary investments and properly protect affected communities, Biden would need Congress. (If Democrats don’t win the Senate in 2020, Democrats have their next chance at a majority in two years, but it’s not a sure bet.) Without it, his climate accomplishments, like Obama’s, will be partial and inadequate.

Republican climate intransigence is not a problem Biden can solve
Biden will have plenty of backseat drivers on the left, convinced that if he’d just made this or that speech, endorsed this or that policy, wooed this or that lawmaker, he could have accomplished everything. But the baseline political fact, for Biden as for Obama, will be the sharp limits drawn by total GOP intransigence.

He can make enormous progress in four years — especially if he is fearless in his use of executive powers, willing to shrug off the inevitable scolding from Republicans and pundits — but there is almost certainly no way for the US to reach the Democrats’ shared goal of net-zero carbon emissions by 2050 if the Republican Party sabotages clean energy policy at every opportunity. The next Trump (which could well be Trump himself) will just undo whatever Biden does, the Obama cycle all over again.

From a broader perspective, it’s just difficult to see how the US can stay on the extremely narrow path to midcentury decarbonization if one of the two major US political parties remains dedicated to defending the interests of fossil fuel companies and opposing anything “the libs” support. No climate plan Democrats ever implement, no matter how bold, can possibly remain immune to swings in government for decades. Republicans will periodically control government.[/size]
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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2020, 12:55:59 PM »
should I close this thread ?
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2020, 01:25:52 PM »
should I close this thread ?
Ummm...why?
Biden is going to be POTUS, right? Trump's Presidency was a top post collector before the Covid, so why close this?
Mind, you are the moderator, but what is the rational for closing this? Too soon? We can speculate on what he will do if that is the case, based on his statements.
Is it too controversial? That is what the subforum is like.
Why?
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gerontocrat

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2020, 01:50:02 PM »
should I close this thread ?
Ummm...why?
Biden is going to be POTUS, right? Trump's Presidency was a top post collector before the Covid, so why close this?
Mind, you are the moderator, but what is the rational for closing this? Too soon? We can speculate on what he will do if that is the case, based on his statements.
Is it too controversial? That is what the subforum is like.
Why?
IMNotHO, Absolutely wrong to shut this thread down. It is Biden's Presidency that may determine
- by how much global heating will exceed +1.5 celsius,
- whether the US can restore its position in the world at least to some extent,
- whether naked Capitalism will be tamed to give the less well-off at least a few more crumbs from the table.

Trump may leave the White House but he ain't leaving, or maybe Trump mark 2 will arise.....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/us-trump-biden-president-elect
The US was lucky to get Trump – Biden may pave the way for a more competent autocrat
George Monbiot
Only if the president-elect is willing to fight big money and redistribute wealth can he stop the rise of someone far worse than Trump
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oren

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2020, 03:45:58 PM »
I get the feeling b.c. meant it cynically, because the Orange Idiot is gonna steal another term so there will not even be a Biden's presidency.  The "coup de twat".

gerontocrat

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2020, 04:02:09 PM »
I get the feeling b.c. meant it cynically, because the Orange Idiot is gonna steal another term so there will not even be a Biden's presidency.  The "coup de twat".
Beat me to the punch, Oren. The Orange idiot has a lot of people doing the biz for him.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/trump-election-concede-republicans-democrats
Republicans aren't conceding – and Democrats are bringing a knife to a gun fight
David Sirota
The Republicans’ bid to overturn the election is a full-scale emergency – and yet the Democratic strategy seems to be to pretend it isn’t happening
Quote
The recent HBO film 537 Votes, about the Florida 2000 election mess, offers one overarching message: Democrats’ refusal to sound a clear alarm about the slow-motion heist in process ultimately let the election be stolen.

In that debacle, Democrats seemed to think things would break their way with well-honed arguments inside the cloistered confines of the legal system – they never understood how public-facing politics can play a role in what ended up being a pivotal political brawl outside the courtroom.

Twenty years later, the lesson of the Bush-Gore debacle isn’t being heeded
Now, 20 years later, the lesson of that debacle isn’t being heeded. Donald Trump and his cronies are quite clearly waging a public-facing campaign designed to create the conditions to pull off a coup in the electoral college process.

This is a full-scale emergency – and yet the Democratic strategy seems to be to try to pretend it isn’t happening, in hopes that norms win out, even though nothing at all is normal.

In the week since the election, Donald Trump and his Republican allies have waged a public campaign to call the election results into question – not just in the courtroom, but in the public’s mind. Their lawsuits and Attorney General William Barr’s recent memo are designed as much to to generate headlines as they are to win rulings and initiate prosecutions. Their tweets asserting fraud, and their high-profile promises of financial reward for evidence of fraud, are all designed to do the same thing.

Most ominously of all, Republican lawmakers in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Arizona are already insinuating the results may be fraudulent, even though they haven’t produced any evidence of widespread fraud.

Why is public perception so important?
Because as the Ohio State University law professor Edward Foley shows in a frighteningly prescient 2019 article, legislatures could use the public perception of fraud to try to invoke their constitutional power to ignore their states’ popular votes, reject certified election results and appoint slates of Trump electors.

In an article that predicted almost exactly what has already happened in Pennsylvania, Foley imagined Trump seeming to be ahead at first, then losing his lead as votes are counted, then making allegations of fraud, setting the stage for this:

At Trump’s urging, the state’s legislature – where Republicans have majorities in both houses – purports to exercise its authority under Article II of the Constitution to appoint the state’s presidential electors directly. Taking their cue from Trump, both legislative chambers claim that the certified popular vote cannot be trusted because of the blue shift that occurred in overtime. Therefore, the two chambers claim to have the constitutional right to supersede the popular vote and assert direct authority to appoint the state’s presidential electors, so that this appointment is in line with the popular vote tally as it existed on Election Night, which Trump continues to claim is the “true” outcome.

The state’s Democratic governor refuses to assent to this assertion of authority by the state’s legislature, but the legislature’s two chambers proclaim that the governor’s assent is unnecessary. They cite early historical practices in which state legislatures appointed presidential electors without any involvement of the state’s governor. They argue that like constitutional amendments, and unlike ordinary legislation, the appointment of presidential electors when undertaken directly by a state legislature is not subject to a gubernatorial veto.


This is why we’ve seen Republican officials and policies continue pretending that Trump didn’t lose the election, and presuming that there will be a second Trump term. This isn’t merely infantile behavior or an immature temper tantrum – it is part of a cutthroat plan.

They are trying to normalize the idea that regardless of how Americans actually voted, a second Trump term is inevitable because state legislatures and Congress will ultimately hand him the electoral college.

Where is Democrats’ call to action?

… instead of sounding the alarm, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris seem to have settled on a “nothing to see here” approach.

The Biden-Harris campaign has been proceeding as if everything is fine, rolling out some transition team names and announcing that Biden has talked to some world leaders. Biden’s comments on Wednesday about the election were even more sedated and anodyne than those of Al Gore back during the 2000 Florida recount. The most he could muster was an assertion that the Republicans behavior is embarrassing and might hurt Trump’s legacy – as if this is a West Wing episode inanely presuming that any single Republican elected official in the country cares about such things.

And yet, we’ve been taught over and over and over again that real life most certainly is not a West Wing episode. The Republicans do not care about anything other than obtaining and holding power by any means necessary — they are T-1000 Terminators ruthlessly focused on winning at all costs.

So where is the call to action? Where is the activism? Where are requests for Democrats in the five Biden states with Republican legislatures to start pressuring their state lawmakers to commit to respecting the popular vote?

Biden may be calculating that any public pushback will only help Trump, and the best strategy is to try to starve the fraud allegations of attention. And sure, we may get lucky – things may eventually just sort themselves out with no big hullabaloo.

However, history suggests that it is pretty risky to bank on a passive strategy, leave it all up to fate and simply hope for the best through “normal” procedures during moments of obviously abnormal circumstances.

Indeed, refusing to wage a much more organized, public campaign to challenge Trump’s coup attempt is exactly the kind of strategy Democrats went with 20 years ago in Florida during the Brooks Brothers riot – and look how that turned out. We got an illegitimate Bush presidency that gave us the Iraq war and a financial crisis that ended or ruined millions of lives.

This time around it could be even worse – the end of whatever’s still left of American democracy.
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oren

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2020, 10:39:10 PM »
It could well happen but I doubt a public campaign would stop such cutthroat plans.

FrostKing70

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2020, 10:53:52 PM »
Lots of things to comment on in this thread!   Let's see if I remember them all the first time around:

1.  I believe the GOP will get at least one more seat either in the recount or run off election in Georgia.   This will limit what Biden can do, as the majority leader has amply demonstrated his willingness to hurt the US to keep the other side from gaining any ground.

2.  Biden will do what he can via executive order, which will help some.

3.  I believe the combination of CV-19 deniers and "Toxic Freedom" will doom any effort to control the virus before a vaccine is ready, and probably long after.   "Toxic Freedom" is the term I have been using to describe people who think their personal freedom to choose and live free is more important than helping the country and its citizens.

3A.  I have had several conversations recently that lead me to believe CV-19 deniers are more common than most believe.   This runs the gambit from a very intelligent mechanical engineer who believes the media is over hyping the situation and the doctors are inflating the number of infections and deaths because they get paid more, to a (retired) Registered Nurse who believes the talking heads on FOX and tweets by the President over articles published in peer reviewed medical journals!

FrostKing70

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2020, 11:00:58 PM »
I knew I would miss at least one!

4.  Recent polls have indicated that less than half of the US population is willing to take the vaccine, once available, due to a variety of issues (anti-vaccinators (sp?), lack of trust in a vaccine developed so quickly, etc)

wili

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2020, 11:04:24 PM »
5. fewer than half the population will obey any future lockdown orders (mostly because hardly any Repubs will)
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Freegrass

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2020, 01:34:44 AM »
Biden becomes president...

Biden will then have access to all the secrets of the Trump era...

Trump didn't think that far when he was in office...

But he knows now that America will see his tax returns and find out about all the crimes he committed in public office and beyond...

So what can he do?

He has to completely destroy the credibility of the Biden administration...

They''ll be "after him"...
The "Russian hoax" all over again...

Biden lies... They want to "lock him up".

It's all a political witch hunt...

And so now he's attacking Fucks news, because he wants his own media empire where he can do and say whatever he wants...

Megalomania to the limit!

But he's Trump... So he'll fuck this up for sure...

71 million votes...
30 million hard core?

And so the repukes can't do much, because their platform said; "Whatever Trump wants"...

Remember "the pledge"?

That was the day repukes signed their party and their principles away to a raging fool...

Let's hope Trump fucks up quickly, or he'll divide America completely into destruction...

Well done Putin!
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2020, 02:03:21 AM »
Biden becomes president...

Biden will then have access to all the secrets of the Trump era...

Trump didn't think that far when he was in office...

But he knows now that America will see his tax returns and find out about all the crimes he committed in public office and beyond...

So what can he do?

He has to completely destroy the credibility of the Biden administration...

They''ll be "after him"...
The "Russian hoax" all over again...

Biden lies... They want to "lock him up".

It's all a political witch hunt...

And so now he's attacking Fucks news, because he wants his own media empire where he can do and say whatever he wants...

Megalomania to the limit!

But he's Trump... So he'll fuck this up for sure...

71 million votes...
30 million hard core?

And so the repukes can't do much, because their platform said; "Whatever Trump wants"...

Remember "the pledge"?

That was the day repukes signed their party and their principles away to a raging fool...

Let's hope Trump fucks up quickly, or he'll divide America completely into destruction...

Well done Putin!
Trump started avoiding recordings and destroying records after his first scandle in office. Trump will be jailed for crimes he committed as citizen. He may be using the election fraud bit to fund his debt. He owes aproximately 400 million. In the fine print of donation for legal challanges he can spend up to the first 8 thousand dollars on whatever he wants and 60% after that. Once the legal challenges are over he can spend the rest. Or something like that the exact details were not exactly clear to me.

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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2020, 02:23:04 AM »
  .. so that's a 'yes' then ? ..  ;)  ;)  ;D
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Re: Biden’s Presidency
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2020, 04:10:58 PM »
Lots of things to comment on in this thread!   Let's see if I remember them all the first time around:

1.  I believe the GOP will get at least one more seat either in the recount or run off election in Georgia.   This will limit what Biden can do, as the majority leader has amply demonstrated his willingness to hurt the US to keep the other side from gaining any ground.

2.  Biden will do what he can via executive order, which will help some.

3.  I believe the combination of CV-19 deniers and "Toxic Freedom" will doom any effort to control the virus before a vaccine is ready, and probably long after.   "Toxic Freedom" is the term I have been using to describe people who think their personal freedom to choose and live free is more important than helping the country and its citizens.

3A.  I have had several conversations recently that lead me to believe CV-19 deniers are more common than most believe.   This runs the gambit from a very intelligent mechanical engineer who believes the media is over hyping the situation and the doctors are inflating the number of infections and deaths because they get paid more, to a (retired) Registered Nurse who believes the talking heads on FOX and tweets by the President over articles published in peer reviewed medical journals!

1.  Agreed, and I think they will win both.

2.  This has become a more common usage with each successive president.

3.  I believe this will continue to exist, but diminish as the virus spreads this winter (even the most ardent believers will jump ship if personally affected).

3a. My conversations lead me to believe the opposite. Perhaps we are just talking to different people.  Polls are only as good as the demographics of those polled.

4.  I have heard also that less than half will take the vaccine, but it is not related to anti-vaxers, as they constitute such a small percentage of the population, but more related to your second aspect, in that the virus is being rushed into approval.