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Freegrass

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #900 on: December 09, 2024, 02:54:37 PM »
Interesting. I think he's right. But I don't think Trump understands any of this. Trump hates losing, and when the economy crashes, he's not gonna be happy.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 01:36:33 AM by Freegrass »
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #901 on: December 09, 2024, 06:43:17 PM »
Interesting. I think he's right. But I don't think Trump is understands any of this.  Trump hates losing, and when the economy crashes, he's not gonna be happy.

I think he's spot-on.  Related to this view is an interesting article from FT:

The mother of all bubbles:  The US has never been so overhyped, relative to the rest of the world
https://www.ft.com/content/49cca8d7-7b6e-47e3-a50c-9557d7c85fc0

"United by faith in the strength of US financial markets and their capacity to keep outperforming all other economies, global investors are committing more capital to a single country than ever before in modern history. The US stock market now floats above the rest. Relative prices are the highest since data began over a century ago and relative valuations are at a peak since data began half a century ago. ...

 "As a result, the US accounts for nearly 70 per cent of the leading global stock index, up from 30 per cent in the 1980s. And the dollar, by some measures, trades at a higher value than at any time since the developed world abandoned fixed exchange rates 50 years ago. 

"The overwhelming consensus is that the gap between the US and the world is justified by the earnings power of top US companies, their global reach and their leading role in tech innovation. These strengths are all real. But one definition of a bubble is a good idea that has gone too far. Awe of “American exceptionalism” in markets has now gone too far.

"America’s share of global stock markets is far greater than its 27 per cent share of the global economy. The upcoming return of Donald Trump to the White House has reinforced the disconnect. Investors believe his plans to raise tariffs, lower taxes and cut regulations will further inflate US markets, which have outrun the rest of the world since the end of the global financial crisis. In November, with Trump’s victory, the US put in its strongest month of outperformance yet.   ..."

__________________________

This is a pretty compelling argument that dollar-denominated investments are in a bubble, regardless of strong economic performance in the US economy. 

When it bursts, massive economic turmoil and pain will result.  When will it burst, and how much higher will the bubble grow before the bust?  Impossible to say.  "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." - Keynes

What might trigger the burst?  Any kind of black swan evenrt.  In my mind, the most likely might be that Trump makes good on his threat to impose tariffs on all imported goods.  This would lead to retaliatory tariffs by the entire globe against the US.  Trump might then escalate the tariffs.  Repeat the retaliatory tariffs.  The net result would be very ugly, for the US more than other nations.  The bubble then bursts.

Alternatively, Trump might massively overreach his Executive authority, triggering a severe constitutional crisis - which then devastates global confidence in the US economy.

Alternatively, Trump tries to "renegotiate" the terms of US government debt.  He's previously threatened this before his first term.  Everyone who holds treasury bonds would conclude that they're now risky investments.  US interest rates then skyrocket, crippling the entire economy.  The Federal Reserve would try to mitigate this crisis by massive purchases of Treasury debt, but that injects massive amounts of money into the economy, leading to very high inflation.  Global confidence in the US economy then craters.

Alternatively, Trump succeeds in deporting most undocumented aliens, something like 10 million people, mostly of working age.  The labor market is already tight.  Pull that many workers out of the economy, and many enterprises will fail, for inability to to get people to do the work (at affordable wages).  If that happens, Trump might try to impose wage *limits*.  Chaos and civil unrest would be massive.

Even if he does none of these idiotic things, the existing bubble might burst spontaneously.  We'd best be prepared.


Freegrass

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #902 on: December 10, 2024, 02:12:06 AM »
Interesting. I think he's right. But I don't think Trump is understands any of this.  Trump hates losing, and when the economy crashes, he's not gonna be happy.

I think he's spot-on.  Related to this view is an interesting article from FT:

The mother of all bubbles:  The US has never been so overhyped, relative to the rest of the world
https://www.ft.com/content/49cca8d7-7b6e-47e3-a50c-9557d7c85fc0

....
Even if he does none of these idiotic things, the existing bubble might burst spontaneously.  We'd best be prepared.
I posted this article a few weeks ago. When this came out, the market dropped for a moment. It's not smart to bet against this man. He knows the bubble is about to pop.

What will pop it? It could be anything, but pop it will. Probably before the DJIA reaches 50.000.


It looks like Donald Trump is about to face a market crash. Warren Buffett is selling loads of stock.


Warren Buffett's $166 Billion Warning To Wall Street Has Hit A Fever Pitch And The Financial World Can't Afford To Ignore It

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffetts-166-billion-warning-173032731.html

Over the last two years, Warren Buffett has been sending Wall Street a message loud and clear – without saying a word. His approach is more cautious than ever and Berkshire Hathaway's eye-popping $325 billion cash stockpile is the outcome of his latest strategy.

While investors have long emulated Buffett's moves, his latest decisions have raised eyebrows. This caution speaks volumes for a man known for his optimism in the U.S. economy.

For the past eight quarters, Berkshire Hathaway has been a net seller of equities, raking in $166 billion by off-loading massive amounts of stock, including longtime favorites, like Apple and Bank of America.

The scale of these sales is unprecedented, as it's the first time since 2018 that Buffett hasn't bought back any of Berkshire's stock – a move that hasn't gone unnoticed in the financial community. This stance hints at one thing: Buffett sees the market as significantly overvalued.

Much of this cash isn't being reinvested in the stock market but rather parked in short-term U.S. Treasury bills. Thanks to high yields, these low-risk investments have earned Berkshire close to $10 billion.

Cathy Seifert, an analyst with CFRA, recently pointed out that Buffett's reduction in Apple holdings is a prudent move, especially since Apple had grown into a massive chunk of Berkshire's portfolio. However, this pivot to treasuries instead of stocks signals that Buffett sees limited bargains on Wall Street – a stance that echoes his famous "buy low" philosophy.

Still, some analysts feel Buffett's caution could be a missed opportunity. Cash yields may fall if the Federal Reserve begins to ease interest rates, making equities more attractive. In that case, Berkshire's heavy cash position could mean missed gains if the market rebounds.

However, Buffett has historically bet on patience, using downturns to scoop up undervalued assets. He believes a significant cash reserve gives Berkshire the agility to seize bargains if a market slump occurs.

The cyclically adjusted price-to-earnings (CAPE) ratio, also known as the Shiller P/E ratio, paints a clearer picture of the market's current state. At above 36 – more than double its long-term average – this ratio indicates a market far above traditional valuations.

Historically, CAPE ratios over 30 have often preceded significant market drops, losing anywhere from 20% to nearly 90% of their value. To the seasoned investor, these figures might seem like a harbinger of turbulent times.


Beyond valuations, other economic indicators bolster Buffett's cautious stance. The U.S. Treasury yield curve has remained inverted for a historic length, signaling potential trouble. Combined with a notable decline in the M2 money supply – the first of its kind since the Great Depression – the data hints at a possible downturn.

But if there's one thing Buffett has proved over his career, it's that patience pays off. He famously pounced on Bank of America in 2011, buying $5 billion in preferred stock at a time when the bank was struggling and recently sold $896 million of the stock.

Buffett's moves might be unsettling for those used to his optimism, but they're not without precedent. With its substantial cash pile, Berkshire Hathaway is primed to strike when the market offers better deals.

Buffett's track record shows he's no stranger to swooping in on "price dislocations," as he calls them. For the Oracle of Omaha, waiting out high valuations is part of the plan.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #903 on: December 10, 2024, 12:32:28 PM »
Interesting. I think he's right. But I don't think Trump is understands any of this.  Trump hates losing, and when the economy crashes, he's not gonna be happy.

I think he's spot-on.  Related to this view is an interesting article from FT:

The mother of all bubbles:  The US has never been so overhyped, relative to the rest of the world
https://www.ft.com/content/49cca8d7-7b6e-47e3-a50c-9557d7c85fc0

....
Even if he does none of these idiotic things, the existing bubble might burst spontaneously.  We'd best be prepared.
I posted this article a few weeks ago. When this came out, the market dropped for a moment. It's not smart to bet against this man. He knows the bubble is about to pop.

What will pop it? It could be anything, but pop it will. Probably before the DJIA reaches 50.000.


It looks like Donald Trump is about to face a market crash. Warren Buffett is selling loads of stock.


Warren Buffett's $166 Billion Warning To Wall Street Has Hit A Fever Pitch And The Financial World Can't Afford To Ignore It

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffetts-166-billion-warning-173032731.html
...

The cyclically adjusted price-to-earnings (CAPE) ratio, also known as the Shiller P/E ratio, paints a clearer picture of the market's current state. At above 36 – more than double its long-term average – this ratio indicates a market far above traditional valuations.

Historically, CAPE ratios over 30 have often preceded significant market drops, losing anywhere from 20% to nearly 90% of their value. To the seasoned investor, these figures might seem like a harbinger of turbulent times.


Beyond valuations, other economic indicators bolster Buffett's cautious stance. The U.S. Treasury yield curve has remained inverted for a historic length, signaling potential trouble. Combined with a notable decline in the M2 money supply – the first of its kind since the Great Depression – the data hints at a possible downturn.
...

All investible assets compete with each other for investment dollars for likely returns.  Stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities all compete.  The bond market is enormous.  When interest rates are low, so are bond returns.  So, when interest rates were near zero, a CAPE of 30 could be sustained indefinitely.  Not with today's much higher interest rates.

Warren Buffet is very old.  Cognitive decline is inevitable for him.  But he's been cleverly working the financial markets his whole life.  In his recent trades, he might be very wrong.  Or maybe he still has what it takes.  For now, I think he still has what it takes.

Freegrass

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #904 on: December 10, 2024, 04:16:03 PM »
Here's another interesting video with Richard Wolff.

Quote
Richard David Wolff (born April 1, 1942) is an American Marxian economist known for his work on economic methodology and class analysis. He is a professor emeritus of economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and a visiting professor in the graduate program in international affairs of the New School. Wolff has also taught economics at Yale University, City University of New York, University of Utah, University of Paris I (Sorbonne), and The Brecht Forum in New York City.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_D._Wolff

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LeftyLarry

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #905 on: December 15, 2024, 05:00:26 AM »
He fails to mention the Marshall plan and the fact that the U.S. rebuilt Germanys auto industries  with brand spanking new factories & equipment while Detroit received no government help and stayed with their older stuff.

It really wasn’t Europe though who hurt the U.S. auto makers at that time, “team” Japan with the banks, Government  and companies working hand in hand often illegally as they went against International treaties and “dumped “ cars for no profit, often at a loss, illegally in the U.S. that hurt the U.S.  Car makers and many other industries at that time also.

Why did we allow that?

Japanese were able to corrupt many congressman and many Americans made big money off Japanese imports .

This was the time I started becoming more conservative, having begun as a Center Left Democrat and it culminated with Clinton.
That was where  everything changed.
Before Clinton, the Republicans were the party of Capital and the Democrats were the Party of the Working class and there was balance, when things went to far towards the money side, the American people voted for the Democrats and when it started getting to strong for LABOR and investment and jobs slowed down, they voted for the Capital side and we had equilibrium, until Clinton took office and then, suddenly, the Republicans were still for Capital, the Banks, the money side but the Democrats were for the , “ third world” and everyone else, not the U.S. worker or the U.S. in general.
That’s when the so called elite, really the leftists  accelerated their plan to destroy America and they almost did it, Trump winning the first time slowed them down and now, this time, there is hope that in his 4 years and hopefully the next 8 after he’s gone , we get back to basics, start caring about America first again and , well you know the rest, MAGA.

LeftyLarry

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #906 on: December 17, 2024, 06:07:17 AM »
Interesting. I think he's right. But I don't think Trump is understands any of this.  Trump hates losing, and when the economy crashes, he's not gonna be happy.

I think he's spot-on.  Related to this view is an interesting article from FT:

The mother of all bubbles:  The US has never been so overhyped, relative to the rest of the world
https://www.ft.com/content/49cca8d7-7b6e-47e3-a50c-9557d7c85fc0

"United by faith in the strength of US financial markets and their capacity to keep outperforming all other economies, global investors are committing more capital to a single country than ever before in modern history. The US stock market now floats above the rest. Relative prices are the highest since data began over a century ago and relative valuations are at a peak since data began half a century ago. ...

 "As a result, the US accounts for nearly 70 per cent of the leading global stock index, up from 30 per cent in the 1980s. And the dollar, by some measures, trades at a higher value than at any time since the developed world abandoned fixed exchange rates 50 years ago. 

"The overwhelming consensus is that the gap between the US and the world is justified by the earnings power of top US companies, their global reach and their leading role in tech innovation. These strengths are all real. But one definition of a bubble is a good idea that has gone too far. Awe of “American exceptionalism” in markets has now gone too far.

"America’s share of global stock markets is far greater than its 27 per cent share of the global economy. The upcoming return of Donald Trump to the White House has reinforced the disconnect. Investors believe his plans to raise tariffs, lower taxes and cut regulations will further inflate US markets, which have outrun the rest of the world since the end of the global financial crisis. In November, with Trump’s victory, the US put in its strongest month of outperformance yet.   ..."

__________________________

This is a pretty compelling argument that dollar-denominated investments are in a bubble, regardless of strong economic performance in the US economy. 

When it bursts, massive economic turmoil and pain will result.  When will it burst, and how much higher will the bubble grow before the bust?  Impossible to say.  "Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." - Keynes

What might trigger the burst?  Any kind of black swan evenrt.  In my mind, the most likely might be that Trump makes good on his threat to impose tariffs on all imported goods.  This would lead to retaliatory tariffs by the entire globe against the US.  Trump might then escalate the tariffs.  Repeat the retaliatory tariffs.  The net result would be very ugly, for the US more than other nations.  The bubble then bursts.

Alternatively, Trump might massively overreach his Executive authority, triggering a severe constitutional crisis - which then devastates global confidence in the US economy.

Alternatively, Trump tries to "renegotiate" the terms of US government debt.  He's previously threatened this before his first term.  Everyone who holds treasury bonds would conclude that they're now risky investments.  US interest rates then skyrocket, crippling the entire economy.  The Federal Reserve would try to mitigate this crisis by massive purchases of Treasury debt, but that injects massive amounts of money into the economy, leading to very high inflation.  Global confidence in the US economy then craters.

Alternatively, Trump succeeds in deporting most undocumented aliens, something like 10 million people, mostly of working age.  The labor market is already tight.  Pull that many workers out of the economy, and many enterprises will fail, for inability to to get people to do the work (at affordable wages).  If that happens, Trump might try to impose wage *limits*.  Chaos and civil unrest would be massive.

Even if he does none of these idiotic things, the existing bubble might burst spontaneously.  We'd best be prepared.

I agree that the Stock market in the U.S. is overvalued, my financial advisor disagrees and doesn’t see the bubble, he could be correct.
I was right when in 2007 I predicted the coming crash, I waited for the first downside and was down a few % points, off my portfolio’s  high when I sold. My friends mostly stayed in and soon they were down massive amounts and said I was right, smarter than them.

However, after I paid capital gains on my profits and waited for the beginning of an up market to get back in , by the time the market recovered very, very quickly, I was no better off than had I stayed in the first place and might even have lost some ground by selling before the real crash .

That’s when I learned why the animals on the plains stay in herds .Yes it’s much either for the lions and cheetahs etc.etc to find them in large herds but  each Indivduals chance of survival is much greater than if they went off by themselves.You have much better chance of survival running with the herd.The government will step and bail out whomever if everybody is going down the tubes.

As I look around the world at where Investors might put their money, right now, the U.S. Stock market, especially with Trump coming in , looks like the best bet, so even though I agree it’s overvalued and I don’t see more than a 3-5% move upward by years end, I am still staying in equities here until proven wrong.

My gut is, if Trump proves successful in shutting down Government spending and waste, indeed, inflation will temper and interest rates will come down and when interest rates come down, the money keeps pouring into equities and though I see headwinds for the U.S. I see worse ones for China and Europe , so where else is the money going to go?

Neven

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #907 on: December 17, 2024, 02:17:26 PM »
Ironic how a thread on economic equality devolves into a discussion on the best way to let money do all the work.
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morganism

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #908 on: December 28, 2024, 12:30:36 AM »

‘Living proof that you can spend money on the poor’: Utopia comes to Mexico City

A visionary mayor has harnessed her imagination to promote health, wellbeing and culture in one of the Mexican capital’s most impoverished neighbourhoods
(....)
The mayor’s office believes the utopias have driven down crime in a neighbourhood that used to record one in every five of Mexico City’s murders. Serious offences such as assault, robbery and murder have dropped by between 25% and 74.1%, depending on the utopia.

Brugada now wants to build 100 utopias so that every neighbourhood has one.

“We want a city that generates employment and fights poverty, a city for everyone, a city where the walls that have divided … are torn down. A city where the poor come first, the women first,” Brugada told the visiting mayors at the City Labs conference.
(snip)
“You know the programme is working when the rich are complaining that the poor have a gym and a swimming pool,” says Robles-Durán. “This is so pioneering, as it is an entirely new political economy where every citizen, no matter how poor, should have access to these services. And it is the first case in 20 or 30 years that Mexico has broken with the neoliberal dogma that there is no money for this.

“This is living proof that if you want to, you can spend money on the poor.”

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/dec/27/mexico-city-utopias-project-mayor
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LeftyLarry

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #909 on: December 31, 2024, 06:11:30 AM »

‘Living proof that you can spend money on the poor’: Utopia comes to Mexico City

A visionary mayor has harnessed her imagination to promote health, wellbeing and culture in one of the Mexican capital’s most impoverished neighbourhoods
(....)
The mayor’s office believes the utopias have driven down crime in a neighbourhood that used to record one in every five of Mexico City’s murders. Serious offences such as assault, robbery and murder have dropped by between 25% and 74.1%, depending on the utopia.

Brugada now wants to build 100 utopias so that every neighbourhood has one.

“We want a city that generates employment and fights poverty, a city for everyone, a city where the walls that have divided … are torn down. A city where the poor come first, the women first,” Brugada told the visiting mayors at the City Labs conference.
(snip)
“You know the programme is working when the rich are complaining that the poor have a gym and a swimming pool,” says Robles-Durán. “This is so pioneering, as it is an entirely new political economy where every citizen, no matter how poor, should have access to these services. And it is the first case in 20 or 30 years that Mexico has broken with the neoliberal dogma that there is no money for this.

“This is living proof that if you want to, you can spend money on the poor.”

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/dec/27/mexico-city-utopias-project-mayor

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etienne

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Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #910 on: January 08, 2025, 01:01:14 PM »
 I have here  quote from Hannah Arendt, book "on revolution".
She first talks about the failure of the French and Russian revolution  because  the aim was freedom,  but necessity took over.

Here is what she said about the US:
Quote
When the poor in America and elsewhere became rich, they did not become idlers whose actions were motivated by the desire to excel, but succumbed to the boredom of idleness, and, even if they acquired in their turn a taste for "respect and honors," they were content to procure these "goods" at the best possible price, that is, they eliminated the passionate desire to distinguish themselves and to excel which can only be exercised in broad daylight before the eyes of the public. For them, the instinct of self-preservation remained the end of government, and John Adams' conviction that "it is the first end of government to regulate [the passion for distinction]" has not even become a matter of controversy - it has simply been forgotten. Instead of entering the public square, where excellence can shine, they preferred, as it were, to throw open the doors of their homes to "conspicuous consumption," to display their wealth and show what, by nature, is not meant to be seen by everyone.