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Did the SARS-CoV-2 virus come from a lab?

100%
Highly likely
Probably
Undecided
Probably not
Very likely not
100% no way

Author Topic: Origins of SARS-CoV-2  (Read 46413 times)

kassy

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #300 on: July 07, 2022, 08:59:15 PM »
Ah yes, the poll.

Just a couple of post up we have stuff such as this:

PNAS paper by harrison and sachs, quite readable:

"We do know that the insertion of such FCS sequences into SARS-like viruses was a specific goal of work proposed by the EHA-WIV-UNC partnership within a 2018 grant proposal (“DEFUSE”) that was submitted to the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) (25). The 2018 proposal to DARPA was not funded, but we do not know whether some of the proposed work was subsequently carried out in 2018 or 2019, perhaps using another source of funding."

"We also know that that this research team would be familiar with several previous experiments involving the successful insertion of an FCS sequence into SARS-CoV-1"

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2202769119

sidd

and

Interesting paper.

Quote
In fact, the assertion that the FCS in SARS-CoV-2 has an unusual, nonstandard amino acid sequence is false. The amino acid sequence of the FCS in SARS-CoV-2 also exists in the human ENaC α subunit (16), where it is known to be functional and has been extensively studied (17, 18). The FCS of human ENaC α has the amino acid sequence RRAR'SVAS (Fig. 2), an eight–amino-acid sequence that is perfectly identical with the FCS of SARS-CoV-2 (16). ENaC is an epithelial sodium channel, expressed on the apical surface of epithelial cells in the kidney, colon, and airways

And they are so much easier on time then videos.

Or even:

Quote
Overlooked Details
Special concerns surround the presence of an unusual furin cleavage site (FCS) in SARS-CoV-2 (10) that augments the pathogenicity and transmissibility of the virus relative to related viruses like SARS-CoV-1 (11, 12). SARS-CoV-2 is, to date, the only identified member of the subgenus sarbecovirus that contains an FCS, although these are present in other coronaviruses (13, 14). A portion of the sequence of the spike protein of some of these viruses is illustrated in the alignment shown in Fig. 1, illustrating the unusual nature of the FCS and its apparent insertion in SARS-CoV-2 (15). From the first weeks after the genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2 became available, researchers have commented on the unexpected presence of the FCS within SARS-CoV-2—the implication being that SARS-CoV-2 might be a product of laboratory manipulation. In a review piece arguing against this possibility, it was asserted that the amino acid sequence of the FCS in SARS-CoV-2 is an unusual, nonstandard sequence for an FCS and that nobody in a laboratory would design such a novel FCS (13).

This is pretty convincing and a tell tale sign. The FCS is also a well known target for this type of research.

 

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

trm1958

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #301 on: July 09, 2022, 03:44:02 PM »
I voted very likely not.
But I know one former member who would have voted 100% no...Jochen Spalding, the former blumenkraft. He gets very heated when I email him anything about lab origin for him to debunk, till I just gave up.

Rodius

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #302 on: July 10, 2022, 06:52:46 AM »
I put highly likely.

The way it seems to me is the lab found the virus in the natural environment then it escaped from the lab.

Ranman99

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #303 on: July 10, 2022, 12:24:24 PM »
I don't think it was an accidental escape I think it is part of experimentation by nefarious players. I think the place the research was done and where the escape was instigated was no accident. The instigators are not Chinese per se. I think China's response is a direct showing of what they are capable of doing if the experiment was conducted again because they realised they have been played and wanted to show their ability in the face of these global games.

Again this is all speculation. However, I "could" like to know what is really up with Peter Daszak and EcoHealth Alliance. Shakespearean teachings give us the sense to be very curious about that.

😎

Jeju-islander

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #304 on: July 10, 2022, 01:13:30 PM »
Neven, thanks for adding this poll.
I voted 'undecided', because there is as yet no evidence to prove this issue one way or the other.
The important issue on this thread is that science is not a religious dogma, nor a political ideology. My 'undecided' vote does not signify disinterest or ambivalence. It shows an openess to the possibility of a lab leak. I would prefer a 'Strongly maybe' option.

I’M IN LOVE WITH A RAGER

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #305 on: July 10, 2022, 08:35:43 PM »
My vote is for "highly likely" due to to observed subtle genetic divergences between the original 'wild-type' (Wuhan strain) SARS-CoV2 and other wild circulating bat coronavirus clade members including Sidd and Kassy's previously mentioned furin cleavage site sequence, among others.

It's been awhile since I've read into the topic much, so maybe some new light has been cast on this issue that I have missed, but I find it a little inconvenient that such a transmissible and pathogenic virus managed to make it from it's hypothesized zoonotic origin site approx 800 miles/1300km to Hubei province without starting a comparable outbreak somewhere else down the line. Even more curiously, one of the few BSL4 labs in the world, which happened to be conducting research on bat coronaviruses and has a history of biosafety/biosecurity issues, was only a short distance from the Wuhan wet market where the initial outbreak was first traced back to.

While the CCP has its issues and flaws, I would not think they would have much reason to immediately and harshly cover up a zoonotic spillover event in a way that included arresting multiple scientists for speaking about the existence of a virus and going total denial mode for months (and being demonstrably wrong at every turn in a quite rapid succession). China was afraid and went full damage control from the jump, which might just be party politics in the vein of Xi Jinping Thought (ie never admit any wrongs to maintain the infallibility of the state), but pragmatically, it seems like a good way to get burned when done for no reason at all. Xi Jinping and the CCP are not stupid, and in my opinion they made a calculated move which did not pay off due to how rapidly the outbreak got out control.

Based on my best guess which could be totally wrong, I think that the virus was some active or shelved non-military experiment (so not a bioweapon or anything crazy like that), likely involving transmissibility of beta-coronaviruses in mammals if not humans specifically. I think that it is very possible that such a research project may not have been conducted under ideal containment and safety protocol due to published history of protocol breach observations in and around the WIV, whether it was even deemed BSL4 research or not (it could have been assigned BSL2+ or BSL3 containment)

If this were the case, one of two possibilities could have occurred: 1) A researcher got sick in-lab through some sort of accident, and due to the asymptomatic transmission ability already present in wild SARS-CoV2, unknowingly and inadvertently spread it in the Wuhan community, possibly for days or weeks, before seeking treatment. 2) An unscrupulous staff member looking to make some extra money under the table managed to get their hands on some lab animals, whether alive or recently euthanized, and sold them to an exotic animal vendor at the Wuhan wet market. When removed from proper biosafety protections, somewhere along the line, contact with the animal or its fluids could have cased the spillover event to occur meters or kilometers away from the initial outbreak rather than >1000km away.

I still believe a 'true' zoonotic spillover could be possible, and if further clear supporting evidence comes to light, I will easily revise my personal origin hypothesis, but for now the few points of data that have slowly fallen into place seem to tip the scale towards an accident resulting from human meddling and incompetence rather than genuine coincidence. Due to the continued bipartisan support from the US state department and intelligence agencies, as well as other nations and non-governmental organizations, including the surprising recent change of heart from the WHO itself, it seems this narrative is continuing to gain traction after being initially cast down and harshly suppressed. Maybe time will tell, maybe not.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/u-s-intel-report-identified-3-wuhan-lab-researchers-who-n1268327
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/covid-19-urges-investigation-chinese-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-rcna32910
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 09:01:28 PM by I’M IN LOVE WITH A RAGER »

nadir

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #306 on: July 11, 2022, 03:14:25 PM »
I believe it is highly likely. The revelations of Fauci emails show that a small number of decision-makers and scientists, with Fauci and Daszak in center place, were very nervous about the possibility of a lab origin very soon in the epidemic (Jan 2020) and in very short time they decided to discredit this possibility with a rushed paper “The proximal origins of SARS-CoV-2”.

This reveals
- corrupt scientists
- with a dubious agenda of research funding
- nervous about the possibility of a lab leak
- because the outbreak was in Wuhan
- this was the location where Peter Daszak’s Ecohealth Alliance funded coronavirus research
- then “The proximal …” is written with Peter Daszak as a co-author without revealing any conflicting interest.

This is all very suspicious behavior I think. Maybe they wanted to cover what it didn’t happen (maybe after all it was a natural spillage), but at least corrupt or suspicious elements should be removed starting with Fauci and Daszak.

etienne

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #307 on: September 18, 2022, 08:49:15 AM »
I'm reading right now the last chapter of the book "Limits and Beyond, a report to the club of Rome", and one thought that came to my mind is that a Lab origin would be really reassuring for us, it would mean that future pandemics would depend of human ability to manage technology, which is something we can do.

If we believe that there is not lab origin, than it means that avoiding the next pandemic requires that we change our relation to nature and wild life, which is much more complicated, almost impossible as long as we see growth as something required for the economy.

So somehow the lab origin could be linked to climate denial, to conspiracy theory in order to keep our destructive economy as long as possible (until collapse in a BAU system). But the book is much more positive, because we as human can learn, and because we love life more that money.

The book contains good and not so good article, but it is worth reading.

sidd

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #308 on: September 18, 2022, 09:40:34 AM »
Re: " would depend of human ability to manage technology, which is something we can do."

Wait, what ? I thought our present greenhouse gas problem arose from our inability to manage technology, in spite of warnings from the last three decades or more. And our inability to manage GMO crops, the same. And draining the deep aquifers like Ogallala. No doubt others can think of more examples.

We are pitifully inept in managing technology. I am of the opinion that this is due to our social structures, which we are also pitifully inept at managing.

sidd

kassy

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #309 on: September 18, 2022, 03:59:45 PM »
Indeed. And we should totally change our relation to nature and wildlife but that is more to keep them around then for pandemics.

Anyway you could also state that a lab origin is a failure of us managing technologies. Add to that the certainty that we will do that again like with all the leaky energy infrastructure and then there is not much of an argument anymore.

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etienne

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #310 on: September 18, 2022, 05:36:27 PM »
I was thinking more in a limits logic. A Lab origin would be a normal event of our industrial society (like Seveso, Bhopal, Fukushima...), which mean that improvements can be hoped, that is was a human failure in the concept or in the management.

Il we have a natural origin, it means that we are reaching limits where our future can't be guaranteed anymore.

zenith

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #311 on: October 12, 2022, 09:15:44 PM »
this answers some questions.

Jeffrey Sachs: US biotech cartel behind Covid origins and cover-up
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zenith

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #312 on: October 28, 2022, 05:09:53 PM »
Senate HELP Committee Minority Oversight Staff Releases Interim Report Analyzing Origins of COVID-19 Pandemic
https://www.help.senate.gov/ranking/newsroom/press/senate-help-committee-minority-oversight-staff-releases-interim-report-analyzing-origins-of-covid-19-pandemic

"This investigation’s interim report concludes that SARS-CoV-2 and the resulting COVID-19 global pandemic was, more likely than not, the result of a research-related incident associated with coronavirus research in Wuhan, China"   
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #313 on: November 01, 2022, 09:29:12 PM »
https://www.propublica.org/article/senate-report-covid-19-origin-wuhan-lab

Propublica article on the Senate interim report. Long article, pretty compelling that it could have been a leak.

nadir

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #314 on: November 30, 2022, 03:19:29 PM »
I distrust Martenson but I think this video is relevant in this thread:



In any case, there are three facts that these Fauci unredacted emails show:

- Fauci and company suspected as early as Jan 31 2020 that this might be a lab leak, they knew about the anomalous RNA bits and particularly about the furin cleavage as potential red flags of human intervention in the virus development.

- Fauci and company created a rapid intervention group of elite health administrators and scientists to tackle the issue

- Some of these scientists very rapidly (8 days) wrote “Proximal Origin of …”  which credited virus origin to natural causes and wanted to rush its publication in Science and Nature. It was rejected in Nature but finally it was published in Nature Medicine and all of them seemed very happy about it (except a couple of rogue unconvinced elements).

EDIT: The unredacted emails are linked to this tweet from the guy that requested them through a FOIA application:

https://twitter.com/jamesctobias/status/1595096888373649414?s=46&t=IpF56okDl0vRuQPXcQyFvw
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 04:30:09 PM by nadir »

zenith

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #315 on: December 06, 2022, 05:57:17 AM »
'BIGGEST COVER-UP IN HISTORY' I worked with the Wuhan lab – I tried to warn them & I KNOW Covid was a lab leak
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20543847/wuhan-lab-warning-covid-lab-leak/

"A SCIENTIST who worked closely with the Wuhan lab has claimed Covid was genetically engineered - and leaked from the facility.

Dr Andrew Huff, former vice president of EcoHealth Alliance, claims to have had a ringside seat to what he brands one of the greatest cover-ups in history - and the "biggest US intelligence failure since 9/11".

In his new book - The Truth About Wuhan - whistleblower Dr Huff claims the pandemic was the result of the US government's funding of dangerous genetic engineering of coronaviruses in China.

The epidemiologist said China’s gain-of-function experiments - carried out with shoddy biosecurity - led to a lab leak at the US-funded Wuhan Institute of Virology.

"EcoHealth Alliance and foreign laboratories did not have the adequate control measures in place for ensuring proper biosafety, biosecurity, and risk management, ultimately resulting in the lab leak at the Wuhan Institute of Virology," he said in his book, an exclusive pre-release copy of which was provided to The Sun Online.

... And he claimed "China knew from day one that this was a genetically engineered agent".

"The US government is to blame for the transfer of dangerous biotechnology to the Chinese," he said.

Speaking to The Sun Online, Dr Huff added: "I was terrified by what I saw. We were just handing them bioweapon technology."

In his book, the emerging infectious diseases expert claims "greedy scientists killed millions of people globally" - and goes as far as to claim the US government covered it up.

Former intelligence chiefs and diplomats have already claimed Covid was leaked from a Wuhan lab in the "cover-up of the century".

Dr Huff said: "Nobody should be surprised that the Chinese lied about the outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 and then went to extraordinary lengths to make it appear as if the disease naturally emerged.

"The shocking part of all of this is how the United States government lied to all of us."

... "EcoHealth Alliance developed SARS-CoV-2 and was responsible for the development of the agent SARS-CoV-2 during my employment at the organisation," he said.

Although he pointed out he has seen no evidence China deliberately released the virus.

Dr Huff believes the US-funded project was "mostly a global fishing expedition for coronaviruses" to carry out gain of function work or for intelligence collection - rather than preventing future pandemics.

"At the time, I felt like the project seemed more like intelligence collection than scientific research and development," he said in his book.

The scientist said the PREDICT programme wasn't collecting the data is should have been - and he told The Sun Online it appeared to be a "giant intelligence operation".

He alleges the US were using the project to assess the bioweapon capabilities of foreign labs - including the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

... And when Covid emerged in late 2019, he said China "and some of their US government collaborators at the Department of State, USAID, and the Department of Defense went into full cover-up mode".

Dr Huff said he "has good reason to believe that the US government was alerted to the outbreak in August or October 2019".

He quit EcoHealth Alliance in 2016 "due to a large number of ethical concerns with the scientific work and EcoHealth Alliance as a whole".

But in late 2019, he was suddenly offered a position at Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) - and was told he would need top security clearance and a polygraph for the job.

Dr Huff now believes he was approached for the role to keep him quiet about the origins of Covid.

"It is my belief that people working within the US government potentially identified me as a risk to knowing firsthand that the SARS-CoV-2 disease emergence event was a consequence of the US government's sponsorship of the genetic engineering of SARS-CoV-2 domestically and abroad," he said in his book.

"If I would have accepted the position, then I suspect that DARPA would have disclosed restricted information to me, which would have consequently prevented me from discussing any of this information publicly, like I have been and am doing now."

He added: "About a month after the pandemic began, and I was adamant that SARS-CoV-2 was a manmade agent, I suddenly realised what the potential motivation and persistence for recruiting me were.

"The intelligence community realised that I was the only person in a senior position that had left EHA, and the fact I was working outside the government's control made me a threat to their agenda."

Dr Huff believes government officials offered him the role so he could be "sworn into silence for the rest of my life".

As he began to unravel the alleged extensive cover-up by the US government, he said the authorities launched a massive campaign of harassment against him.

He claimed military-grade drones would often appear at his home, he was stalked at the supermarket, and he was followed by unknown vehicles."
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Rodius

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #316 on: December 06, 2022, 11:01:54 AM »
'BIGGEST COVER-UP IN HISTORY' I worked with the Wuhan lab – I tried to warn them & I KNOW Covid was a lab leak
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20543847/wuhan-lab-warning-covid-lab-leak/

"A SCIENTIST who worked closely with the Wuhan lab has claimed Covid was genetically engineered - and leaked from the facility.

Dr Andrew Huff, former vice president of EcoHealth Alliance, claims to have had a ringside seat to what he brands one of the greatest cover-ups in history - and the "biggest US intelligence failure since 9/11".

In his new book - The Truth About Wuhan - whistleblower Dr Huff claims the pandemic was the result of the US government's funding of dangerous genetic engineering of coronaviruses in China.

The epidemiologist said China’s gain-of-function experiments - carried out with shoddy biosecurity - led to a lab leak at the US-funded Wuhan Institute of Virology.

"EcoHealth Alliance and foreign laboratories did not have the adequate control measures in place for ensuring proper biosafety, biosecurity, and risk management, ultimately resulting in the lab leak at the Wuhan Institute of Virology," he said in his book, an exclusive pre-release copy of which was provided to The Sun Online.

... And he claimed "China knew from day one that this was a genetically engineered agent".

"The US government is to blame for the transfer of dangerous biotechnology to the Chinese," he said.

Speaking to The Sun Online, Dr Huff added: "I was terrified by what I saw. We were just handing them bioweapon technology."

In his book, the emerging infectious diseases expert claims "greedy scientists killed millions of people globally" - and goes as far as to claim the US government covered it up.

Former intelligence chiefs and diplomats have already claimed Covid was leaked from a Wuhan lab in the "cover-up of the century".

Dr Huff said: "Nobody should be surprised that the Chinese lied about the outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 and then went to extraordinary lengths to make it appear as if the disease naturally emerged.

"The shocking part of all of this is how the United States government lied to all of us."

... "EcoHealth Alliance developed SARS-CoV-2 and was responsible for the development of the agent SARS-CoV-2 during my employment at the organisation," he said.

Although he pointed out he has seen no evidence China deliberately released the virus.

Dr Huff believes the US-funded project was "mostly a global fishing expedition for coronaviruses" to carry out gain of function work or for intelligence collection - rather than preventing future pandemics.

"At the time, I felt like the project seemed more like intelligence collection than scientific research and development," he said in his book.

The scientist said the PREDICT programme wasn't collecting the data is should have been - and he told The Sun Online it appeared to be a "giant intelligence operation".

He alleges the US were using the project to assess the bioweapon capabilities of foreign labs - including the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

... And when Covid emerged in late 2019, he said China "and some of their US government collaborators at the Department of State, USAID, and the Department of Defense went into full cover-up mode".

Dr Huff said he "has good reason to believe that the US government was alerted to the outbreak in August or October 2019".

He quit EcoHealth Alliance in 2016 "due to a large number of ethical concerns with the scientific work and EcoHealth Alliance as a whole".

But in late 2019, he was suddenly offered a position at Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) - and was told he would need top security clearance and a polygraph for the job.

Dr Huff now believes he was approached for the role to keep him quiet about the origins of Covid.

"It is my belief that people working within the US government potentially identified me as a risk to knowing firsthand that the SARS-CoV-2 disease emergence event was a consequence of the US government's sponsorship of the genetic engineering of SARS-CoV-2 domestically and abroad," he said in his book.

"If I would have accepted the position, then I suspect that DARPA would have disclosed restricted information to me, which would have consequently prevented me from discussing any of this information publicly, like I have been and am doing now."

He added: "About a month after the pandemic began, and I was adamant that SARS-CoV-2 was a manmade agent, I suddenly realised what the potential motivation and persistence for recruiting me were.

"The intelligence community realised that I was the only person in a senior position that had left EHA, and the fact I was working outside the government's control made me a threat to their agenda."

Dr Huff believes government officials offered him the role so he could be "sworn into silence for the rest of my life".

As he began to unravel the alleged extensive cover-up by the US government, he said the authorities launched a massive campaign of harassment against him.

He claimed military-grade drones would often appear at his home, he was stalked at the supermarket, and he was followed by unknown vehicles."

Seriously?
The Sun is deemed a reliable source by you?

zenith

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #317 on: December 06, 2022, 05:03:02 PM »
the right wing rags are the only outlets printing stories that question "the narrative", where's a whistleblower to go? what was the left has become a hive-mind fascist intelligence operation so...
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Rodius

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #318 on: December 07, 2022, 04:37:08 AM »
the right wing rags are the only outlets printing stories that question "the narrative", where's a whistleblower to go? what was the left has become a hive-mind fascist intelligence operation so...

That media is beyond a joke. No wonder you talk fascist (do you even know what that means?) and hive-mind......

I may as well write a fiction, submit it to them and have them put it up for reading... that is the reliability level of them.

zenith

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #319 on: December 07, 2022, 04:54:35 AM »
that's great, you found a way to dismiss the information out of hand (as usual) without engaging in a substantive argument. you could always read his book.
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Rodius

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #320 on: December 07, 2022, 07:07:22 AM »
that's great, you found a way to dismiss the information out of hand (as usual) without engaging in a substantive argument. you could always read his book.

Your definition of "information," when you consider unfactual newspapers as factual, is completely different from the actual meaning of information.

I don't have time to read from people who are deemed experts by "The Sun" other than to keep up to date with conspiracies, but even then, I don't want to waste my time on it either, so there is that.

nadir

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #321 on: February 26, 2023, 07:41:08 PM »
I guess this is not considered a “fringe” conspiracy theory anymore

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a

If someone can access the article, would be nice to know what the US department of Energy has to say about this.

nadir

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Re: Origins of COVID-19
« Reply #322 on: February 26, 2023, 08:01:10 PM »
How this thread started:


Censorship - of what I consider in this case to be a conspiracy theory - would be my preferred mode of operation
. However you might note that I did not propose censorship, merely a separate thread where this can be discussed to your heart's content, without disrupting other more fruitful discussions.

How it is going:

I guess this is not considered a “fringe” conspiracy theory anymore

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a

If someone can access the article, would be nice to know what the US department of Energy has to say about this.


Neven

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #323 on: February 26, 2023, 08:26:36 PM »
The problem - and it has been from the start - is how to assess the veracity of these claims, when so much of what is released, depends on narrative control. Take for instance, this Department of Energy (?) stuff. Isn't this simply in line with the obvious 'pivot' towards China?

I mean, most people are interested in this because they see China as the big enemy. And the people who don't want to hear about it, are those people who believe Russia is the big enemy and all the focus should be on them.

It's almost impossible to find out the truth about anything that is the result of the need for wealth concentration. That's because the people/servants who are busy satisfying this insatiable need, control almost the entire information network.
The next great division of the world will be between people who wish to live as creatures
and people who wish to live as machines.

Wendell Berry, Life Is a Miracle

Rodius

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #324 on: February 27, 2023, 01:41:27 AM »
I never understood how the lab leak option was not the theory that made the most sense.

I understand that proof is required and that the story is that it is difficult to tell etc etc.... but surely the part where there is a lab that experiments with Coronavirus being on the doorstep of the origin of Covid screams rather loudly that it was a lab leak?

The alternatives require some fantastical things to happen (although not impossible, just highly unlikely) compared to the odds of a lab leak.

The simplest answer is probably the right one.
It was a lab leak (probably).

The media is rife with the message that it wasn't though... well, last year it wasn't a lab leak but now the story has changed rapidly.

I smell a propaganda rat...... regardless of the true origin of Covid, it's now a plaything for those with power to tell a story that helps them do whatever it is they want to be doing in the coming year or so.

Ranman99

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #325 on: February 27, 2023, 03:37:32 PM »
Go back and research how these guys https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/ i.e. this guy https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/personnel/dr-peter-daszak were involved in the funding of the gain of research activity in Wuhan in the first place that Fauci and many others were very well aware of. How is it that Peter was one of the first on the scene with WHO to say that it was of natural origin?

What motivated the Chinese to go zero is more than just a silly policy they were caught in a very shitty situation that at least some of their smart folk in Beijing (not all of them are Chinese by the way) knew was orchestrated by The Powers that Be.

This entire thing was an experiment so that if they want to pull the big one out later they know how it works. Even the way to stop it has been tested. Create a less virulent strain that is far more transmissible to wipe out the original deadly strain.

In the word of Randy Bachman ... "You Aint Seen Nothing Yet" 🤣🤣🤣

I can dream I suppose but get some folks together to dig and really get to the bottom of those clues, please!


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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #326 on: February 27, 2023, 11:13:15 PM »
The problem - and it has been from the start - is how to assess the veracity of these claims, when so much of what is released, depends on narrative control. Take for instance, this Department of Energy (?) stuff. Isn't this simply in line with the obvious 'pivot' towards China?

I mean, most people are interested in this because they see China as the big enemy. And the people who don't want to hear about it, are those people who believe Russia is the big enemy and all the focus should be on them.

It's almost impossible to find out the truth about anything that is the result of the need for wealth concentration. That's because the people/servants who are busy satisfying this insatiable need, control almost the entire information network.

One way to find out about things is with the process of elimination.

This study found that what was identified as the influenza virus had the same composition as exosomes.

" we note that influenza virions share an underlying protein composition with exosomes"
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms5816

"Exosomes are of general interest for their role in cell biology, and for their potential therapeutic and diagnostic applications. It was originally thought that exosomes were simply cellular waste products, however their function is now known to extend beyond waste removal. Exosomes represent a novel mode of cell communication and contribute to a spectrum of biological processes in health and disease."

https://www.technologynetworks.com/cell-science/articles/exosomes-definition-function-and-use-in-therapy-334117

Exosomes need to be stored at -70C to remain viable.

"In summary, our results indicate that different storage temperature and period influences recovery yield and morphology of exosome, and storage at below -70°C is the favorable condition for preservation of fresh exosomes for clinical application and basic researches."

If viruses have the same protein composition as exosomes and exosomes need to be stored at -70C, it follows that viruses can not be functional or even exist at all at normal temperatures in the atmosphere.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #327 on: February 28, 2023, 02:58:34 AM »
Go back and research how these guys https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/ i.e. this guy https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/personnel/dr-peter-daszak were involved in the funding of the gain of research activity in Wuhan in the first place that Fauci and many others were very well aware of. How is it that Peter was one of the first on the scene with WHO to say that it was of natural origin?

What motivated the Chinese to go zero is more than just a silly policy they were caught in a very shitty situation that at least some of their smart folk in Beijing (not all of them are Chinese by the way) knew was orchestrated by The Powers that Be.

This entire thing was an experiment so that if they want to pull the big one out later they know how it works. Even the way to stop it has been tested. Create a less virulent strain that is far more transmissible to wipe out the original deadly strain.

In the word of Randy Bachman ... "You Aint Seen Nothing Yet" 🤣🤣🤣

I can dream I suppose but get some folks together to dig and really get to the bottom of those clues, please!

This sounds like a conspiracy theory.

A virus is probably the worst approach to reducing the population given the chaotic nature of all viruses.

What annoys me the most about these conspiracies is when H5N1 eventually crosses over to humans and spreads human to human it will be another pandemic and most likely worse than Covid... and the conspiracy idiots will begin ranting on about how the "Powers That Be" did it and how right they are.... it is ridiculous thinking that will make a response more difficult and make H5N1 worse than it needs to be.

Covid is not a deliberate event... it was most likely a human error from a lab that got out of control.

Science carries risks... and we lost this time.

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #328 on: February 28, 2023, 04:52:37 AM »
The initial Chinese response should have been a big clue that it was a lab leak.  They knew what they were dealing with and locked down tightly.  Unfortunately, they did not convey that information to the rest of the world.  I hope the leak was not deliberate.  That wound be more than a little worrisome. Of course, an accidental lab leak of such a deadly and contagious virus does not ease the mind much.

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #329 on: February 28, 2023, 09:07:56 AM »
The initial Chinese response should have been a big clue that it was a lab leak.  They knew what they were dealing with and locked down tightly.  Unfortunately, they did not convey that information to the rest of the world.  I hope the leak was not deliberate.  That wound be more than a little worrisome. Of course, an accidental lab leak of such a deadly and contagious virus does not ease the mind much.

Yeah, this is my thinking as well.
It escaped, China locked down to prevent it becoming worse and to prevent being blamed for it... it didn't work because it was already further out than Wuhan.

I cant fathom a reason for a dilerate release other than pure insanity... and as bad as China can be at times, they are not insane.

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #330 on: February 28, 2023, 01:18:24 PM »
Because it was not released by a Chinese National. It was a setup.
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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #331 on: February 28, 2023, 01:44:47 PM »
Because it was not released by a Chinese National. It was a setup.

What is the evidence to support the claim?

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #332 on: February 28, 2023, 06:08:08 PM »
There is evidence, but I don't really want to get involved. If you want to go spend time on it, then fill your boots.
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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #333 on: February 28, 2023, 08:43:02 PM »
The initial Chinese response should have been a big clue that it was a lab leak.  They knew what they were dealing with and locked down tightly.  Unfortunately, they did not convey that information to the rest of the world.  I hope the leak was not deliberate.  That wound be more than a little worrisome. Of course, an accidental lab leak of such a deadly and contagious virus does not ease the mind much.

They probably were not sure what it was. What is clear is that they were the most interested to find and demonstrate a natural origin, and they were not able to find any evidence, otherwise it would have been all in the news for weeks.

Also they would have collaborated with foreign/international groups, they did not. The WHO investigation was a joke, and by now it’s clear for all how deeply the WHO is compromised with powerful countries that invest a lot on it.

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #334 on: March 01, 2023, 02:32:26 AM »
There is evidence, but I don't really want to get involved. If you want to go spend time on it, then fill your boots.

Okay... so you get to make a statement and then refuse to produce the evidence.

Telling people to do their own research doesn't mean they come to the same conclusions because there is next to no chance that the "evidence" you have won't be where I look... given you haven't provided even a starting point.

This is the point where the conspiracy theory you are talking about unravels rapidly. If you cant support your claim, keep it to yourself or state that is an opinion only... but even then, provide some logic behind your opinion and some articles to back it up when requested.

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #335 on: March 01, 2023, 07:56:00 AM »
FBI says it was lab leak:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64806903

Of course, this is the same FBI that has been framing terror suspects forawhile ...

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #336 on: March 01, 2023, 11:32:59 PM »
To be fair (to whom???), their confidence is "low".
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

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Re: Origins of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #337 on: March 02, 2023, 12:39:27 AM »
FBI director Wray did not say that confidence is low.He used the phrase "most likely" . His words are "The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident,"

sidd