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kassy

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2021, 06:48:52 PM »
But what is it all about?

You have a president that is on a political trial. The facts are quite clear. Republics wiggle. No sense in doing it in his last week, no sense in doing it after office. That is of course nonsense. Crossing an arbitrary line in time does not mean you get a ´No prosecution free card´. It should be about the things done, the actual lines crossed.

Whining about the election is fine, litigating all you can fine but after that is exhausted take your losses. He knew what he did and they knew but most of them think about their short term interests (reelections) before the bigger picture. People died there. But no...party line and personal income.

This does not increase our opinion of the US.

Now if the counter to that is ´but the left censors everything´ that is kind of weak and not really to the point.

It´s not like right wing dictators adore free speech.

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Rodius

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2021, 12:35:41 AM »
Trump acquitted.
Gulty 57  Not guilty 43

America's reputation amongst those who cling to hope for the survival of democracy in the world slips down another notch.

Those in power in the world who regard democracy and accountabiluty as merely irritations to be swept aside take comfort in the verdict.

There is more than one form of collapse.

How silly, the only people trying to end Democracy are those trying to curtail free speech and those who think an International Press , dedicated to the idea that Leftist viewpoints are all correct and must be protected at all costs is the only way to go.
They think by controlling the dialogue and crushing all opposition they are protecting Democracy, it’s exactly the opposite and it’s a shame you don’t get that.

If you think the international press is left only, you need to broaden what you read.
Or..... maybe it is because the international press see the situation better than you so you would rather double down on your thinking and say everyone else is wrong because you are right rather than consider that outside opinions are correct.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2021, 01:13:38 AM »
Trump was allowed to make his case. He failed to prove anything other than he is a liar. Over and over again. Ignoring people who rarely tell anything close to the truth just makes sense.


LeftyLarry is a righty. You should change your login name.





LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2021, 06:43:22 AM »
Trump was allowed to make his case. He failed to prove anything other than he is a liar. Over and over again. Ignoring people who rarely tell anything close to the truth just makes sense.


LeftyLarry is a righty. You should change your login name.

Is it still OK to be left handed or is that a reason to be “ cancelled “ now too?

Like I said, people don’t understand the difference between fact and opinion.
Here’s  an article from a right wing guy who uses FACTS in it to support his opinion.
these are facts about the big bad riots.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-commentary-capitol-riot-unanswered-questions-impeachment

gerontocrat

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2021, 12:11:20 PM »
Trump was allowed to make his case. He failed to prove anything other than he is a liar. Over and over again. Ignoring people who rarely tell anything close to the truth just makes sense.


LeftyLarry is a righty. You should change your login name.
I think "lefty" refers to which hand he uses - towhit the"sinister".
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greylib

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2021, 02:24:17 PM »
Is it still OK to be left handed or is that a reason to be “ cancelled “ now too?

Like I said, people don’t understand the difference between fact and opinion.
Here’s  an article from a right wing guy who uses FACTS in it to support his opinion.
these are facts about the big bad riots.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-commentary-capitol-riot-unanswered-questions-impeachment
I clicked on your link, as I was interested in your definition of "fact". Fox "news" has been virtually fact-free for a long time now. Can you explain what FACTS Carlson uses in the article? Mostly he's saying that we don't know the facts, and probably never will. That's largely true, but it doesn't warrant your capitalised FACTS.

Normally I stick to the rule of Dont Feed the Troll, but decided to make an exception in your case.

PS - I'm left-handed, but I've never been marginalised over it. I have a few difficulties holding scissors, but that's more than made up for by my superior ability at touch-typing.
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be cause

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2021, 04:54:09 PM »
hard to believe .. I've just come from radio 4 ..
 The Curious Cases of Rutherford & Fry
Series 17
Back to The Sinister Hand ..

  .. still on air .. :) b.c.

 
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

gerontocrat

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2021, 05:13:38 PM »
hard to believe .. I've just come from radio 4 ..
 The Curious Cases of Rutherford & Fry
Series 17
Back to The Sinister Hand ..

  .. still on air .. :) b.c.
My ex-wife was born left-handed but forced by her father to use her right hand. Some weirdo religious stuff was part of that.

French for left - guache (i.e. clumsy)
Italian for left - sinistra

lots of prejudice built into language as BLM knows too well


BUT..
Spanish for left - Izquierdo : nickname for a left-handed man, from Spanish izquierdo 'left' (a word of pre-Roman origin, akin to Basque ezker)

Somewhat off-topic, ho-hum.....


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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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be cause

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2021, 05:52:19 PM »
my brother too .. I remember early efforts being made to train him otherwise . It didn't make him gauche enough or sinister enough to mistake or believe Fox a news outlet that deals in facts .
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2021, 08:14:59 PM »
Trump was allowed to make his case. He failed to prove anything other than he is a liar. Over and over again. Ignoring people who rarely tell anything close to the truth just makes sense.


LeftyLarry is a righty. You should change your login name.
Is it still OK to be left handed or is that a reason to be “ cancelled “ now too?
I do not care if you are left handed.
Your politics are clearly from the right and for the first post or two I read it confused me. I am not the only person.
Currently the right is obsessed with "Cancel Culture" Which when it came up in conversation I had to have it explained to me. My first observation of it was when the right used it to attack a country band. If you become famous for say being a musician you get more attention than most people would. If you then use that position to influence fans about politics you should not be surprised when those fans judge you for those politics. If you do not want that response than you should not use the platform to influence people. The my pillow guy went out of his way to support and defend trump. He could have stayed out of it. He undoubtedly gained sales for a time from Trump supporters because of it. Retailers wanted to avoid taking sides so they distanced themselves from him. This was a logical and appropriate response the my pillow guys use of his public position to declare his loyalty. Mostly republicans are upset with "cancel" culture because far more people are offended by many of their views than support them. They do not want to admit that to themselves and others. Next time you want to get upset about "cancel culture" consider that the individual choose to use their power and influence to make a stand about an issue and individual Americans used their much more limited power and influence to make their opinion known. 

The Walrus

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2021, 09:01:08 PM »
my brother too .. I remember early efforts being made to train him otherwise . It didn't make him gauche enough or sinister enough to mistake or believe Fox a news outlet that deals in facts .

While Tucker Carlson definitely presents his story with a right-wing slant, the facts presented appear to be solid. 

The five deaths appear to have happened as stated; Roseanne Boyland was crushed by the mob, Kevin Greeson did die of a heart attack, Benjamin Phillips did die from a stroke, Ashli Babbitt was shot by an unnamed Capitol Hill lieutenant, and the cause of death of Brian Sicknick is still in question (although the fire extinguisher blunt trauma theory appears to have been debunked).  The quotes and references are real also; Chuck Schumer did call it a day that "will live in infamy,"  CNN's Anderson Cooper did compare the Capitol riot to the Rwandan genocide, AOC did state that she had a "very close encountered, where I thought I was going to die," and "there were white supremist members of Congress who I know would disclose my location," Marwayen Mullin did state that the officer that shot Babbitt did not have a choice, and David Cicilline did say that "the president literally incited an armed attack."  Carlson seems to take issue with the "armed" verbiage, claiming that no one has been shown to have brandished a weapon.  This is largely immaterial, because even if true, mobs do not need weapons to be violent. 

Of course these facts are not the gist of the issue.  Even if no one died or was injured, the issue of a president inciting a riot is still relevant and a grievous offense. 

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2021, 09:20:54 PM »
Quote
Mostly republicans are upset with "cancel" culture because far more people are offended by many of their views than support them.
Then why do Republicans typically get within a few percentage points of Democrats in POTUS elections? Even in 2020, when we literally had the worst Republican candidate (by a country mile) in history, Trump got almost 47% of the popular vote.
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LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2021, 07:34:43 AM »
 ;)
Trump was allowed to make his case. He failed to prove anything other than he is a liar. Over and over again. Ignoring people who rarely tell anything close to the truth just makes sense.


LeftyLarry is a righty. You should change your login name.
Is it still OK to be left handed or is that a reason to be “ cancelled “ now too?
I do not care if you are left handed.
Your politics are clearly from the right and for the first post or two I read it confused me. I am not the only person.
Currently the right is obsessed with "Cancel Culture" Which when it came up in conversation I had to have it explained to me. My first observation of it was when the right used it to attack a country band. If you become famous for say being a musician you get more attention than most people would. If you then use that position to influence fans about politics you should not be surprised when those fans judge you for those politics. If you do not want that response than you should not use the platform to influence people. The my pillow guy went out of his way to support and defend trump. He could have stayed out of it. He undoubtedly gained sales for a time from Trump supporters because of it. Retailers wanted to avoid taking sides so they distanced themselves from him. This was a logical and appropriate response the my pillow guys use of his public position to declare his loyalty. Mostly republicans are upset with "cancel" culture because far more people are offended by many of their views than support them. They do not want to admit that to themselves and others. Next time you want to get upset about "cancel culture" consider that the individual choose to use their power and influence to make a stand about an issue and individual Americans used their much more limited power and influence to make their opinion known.

I remember when your political beliefs  weren’t a reason to tell someone you wouldn’t do business with them, or hire them or let them play with your children.Everyone agreed to disagree and asked what was for dinner.
To me, that was a healthier climate , what the cancel culture is about is imposing their will on people through fear and terror when they can’t win the argument, can’t win the debate.
I thought that America was a better one when nobody asked you who you voted for and where the media took only a slightly Leftist position but actually reported both sides of every event and let the reader or viewer decide for themselves.
Of course, that’s not in the Leftist playbook , there are so many of their positions that they can’t justify with common sense or win a debate with that demand to set the topic and don’t allow anyone’s else’s opinion to be heard and when it’s heard, the speaker MUST be punished.
It’s sort of how the Brown Shirts started against the Jews in Germany.
First make up half truths, Content without context as I call it, then demonize, ban and bar and then eventually dehumanize.
yes, I guess when you control thought through fear and manipulation , you can win  but I wonder if it’s Something  to be really proud about, especially, when in the end, the left has always eaten its own.

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2021, 11:41:30 AM »
I remember when your political beliefs  weren’t a reason to tell someone you wouldn’t do business with them, or hire them or let them play with your children.Everyone agreed to disagree and asked what was for dinner. 
And when was this idyllic time?  Must have been before the Red Scare and blacklisting of suspected Communists.  Must also have been before Jim Crow, before the Nativist/anti-immigrant Know-Nothing Party.  For that matter, must have been before Reconstruction.  Before the abolitionist movement.  Before the Revolutionary War, even.

Even in the post WW-II era when the white middle class was relatively politically complacent, awful racism excluded minorities from equal rights to, e.g., housing.  It was only ever a relatively politically quiescent time for white, middle-class, Christian, church-going people, without disabilities or ethnic impurity. 

Quote
To me, that was a healthier climate , what the cancel culture is about is imposing their will on people through fear and terror when they can’t win the argument, can’t win the debate.
I thought that America was a better one when nobody asked you who you voted for and where the media took only a slightly Leftist position but actually reported both sides of every event and let the reader or viewer decide for themselves.
Of course, that’s not in the Leftist playbook , there are so many of their positions that they can’t justify with common sense or win a debate with that demand to set the topic and don’t allow anyone’s else’s opinion to be heard and when it’s heard, the speaker MUST be punished.
It’s sort of how the Brown Shirts started against the Jews in Germany.
First make up half truths, Content without context as I call it, then demonize, ban and bar and then eventually dehumanize.
yes, I guess when you control thought through fear and manipulation , you can win  but I wonder if it’s Something  to be really proud about, especially, when in the end, the left has always eaten its own.

It is dumbfounding that anyone could characterize this as "the Leftist playbook."  Banning and barring comes at least as much from the Right.  Colin Kaepernick takes a visible stand against police brutality, and he loses his career.  Every year, the Right bemoans a "war on Christmas" and announces boycotts of businesses that dare to try to be inclusive of non-Christians.  Prominent  Republicans take a stand against insurrection, and state parties denounce them and demand their resignation.

Boycotts and the like are an inevitable manifestation of a politically engaged populace.  When thoughtfully done, this is an instrument for positive social change.  Thoughtlessness and narrow-mindedness in such actions is predominantly a phenomenon of the Right.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 02:17:20 PM by SteveMDFP »

Rodius

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2021, 12:53:50 PM »
Those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same, keep things polite, and ignore those who don't have what they have.

And those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same because, heaven forbid, they might have to share some of the excess that they have. They feel a fear that if the others were to get more, they would have less.

For those who have much less rights, less justice, less food, less shelter, less job opportunity, less everything, well, how dare they want what those who have those things.... how dare they.

Of course, if those who have more and want to remain polite actually figure out that if everyone was able to reach their potential, then the brilliant women, people of color, of different culture or religion, who have a gender that doesnt match their version of normal, then we would improve the lot for everyone rather than let such talent and brilliance go to waste.

I cringe daily at the lost potential of so many brilliant people just because they are not white or male.

And Lefty thinks it is best to stay polite and have a meal?
Well, that makes you part of the problem.

We actually need to be impolite, angry and upfront about the problems, not slide them under the table of politeness.

If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.
Lefty is part of the problem, and he doesn't even realise it.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2021, 01:16:23 PM »
Quote
If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.

What do you mean about "fighting"? Letters to the editor? Street demonstrations? Arson? Killing "racists"? Using nuclear weapons?
There is an entire spectrum that goes from trivial to apocalyptic. Where do you draw the line?
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LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2021, 11:40:46 PM »
Those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same, keep things polite, and ignore those who don't have what they have.

And those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same because, heaven forbid, they might have to share some of the excess that they have. They feel a fear that if the others were to get more, they would have less.

For those who have much less rights, less justice, less food, less shelter, less job opportunity, less everything, well, how dare they want what those who have those things.... how dare they.

Of course, if those who have more and want to remain polite actually figure out that if everyone was able to reach their potential, then the brilliant women, people of color, of different culture or religion, who have a gender that doesnt match their version of normal, then we would improve the lot for everyone rather than let such talent and brilliance go to waste.

I cringe daily at the lost potential of so many brilliant people just because they are not white or male.

And Lefty thinks it is best to stay polite and have a meal?
Well, that makes you part of the problem.

We actually need to be impolite, angry and upfront about the problems, not slide them under the table of politeness.

If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.
Lefty is part of the problem, and he doesn't even realise it.

what problem? who has less rights than I do? I’m a Caucasian man who’s Caucasian grandsons line up at the back of the line as compared to equally  qualified applicants of different race or gender. You are the problem, blaming others when everything is there for anybody who wants to be responsible.

 I went to school, paid my own way  , built 2 different careers, married, raised a successful family, am on the Board of two substantial charities , my wife is on the Board of another,  we give back and never took anything we didn’t work for .

We dedicated 15 years + to raising successful children, we didn’t use drugs or drink alcohol and neither do our children , during those 15+ years we put the children first always, drove them to the enrichment programs, gifted programs etc. rather than go out and have a good time, which is what we mostly do now.

 Fairness ? THERE CAN NEVER BE FAIRNESS.

Is it fair that I developed better basketball skills than Shaquille O’Neill but he made 200 million dollars
Because he was born  to be 7’3 and could run and jump and I was born to be 5’11 and couldn’t run and and jump as well as him, no matter what I did with my better skills?

Is it fair that some girls will be born beautiful and sexy and have everything they want in the world while other girls are born to be very plain and worse and often have much tougher lives.

is it fair that some are born with  140 I.Q’s and others 100 I.Q.s ?

sometimes the 140 IQ is also born With Attention Deficit  and can’t do homework and get good grades.

Nothing is equal or fair  but there is room for everyone if they do the right thing and don’t blame racism, sexism and every other Leftist ISM  for their failures.

last time I looked about 13% of this country was African- American and about 12% of all the millionaires in this country were African- American, what’s broken ? especially when African- Americans are the much younger population.

Wake up and smell the roses.

Rodius

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2021, 11:43:29 PM »
Quote
If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.

What do you mean about "fighting"? Letters to the editor? Street demonstrations? Arson? Killing "racists"? Using nuclear weapons?
There is an entire spectrum that goes from trivial to apocalyptic. Where do you draw the line?

Fighting means doing whatever it takes to enact change and improve equality.

Certain groups of US society (although this is not exclusively a US problem, I will maintain the US focus because that is the focus point) have tried letters to politicians and got ignored because, well, it is a letter that can be ignored. No change, not really, because the problems are still there.
They tried getting into political power, but only one black president and still to have a woman in that role. The disparity of gender and race in the senate is almost certainly heavily biased towards white men, so, that isn't working either. In fact, minority groups have tried many, many different paths of asking for improvement. It isn't as if they haven't tried the White way, they have just been ignored for a very long time.

Now the non white people are stuck in poverty, being evicted, going hungry and worse.
Do you really think writing a letter is going to do anything about that given the history of ignoring them?
All forms of "asking" for improvement have failed.
The only times change has happened in the US is when those asking stop asking and begin demanding change and improvements.

So, if those in power don't listen to the requests for change, then the change will happen other ways..... because, and I cant be too blunt about this, the underclasses of the US are sick and tired of the bullshit and of being ignored.

One of the most motivating factors of an uprising is when people no longer have the basics.... things like shelter (mass evictions), food (hunger is increasing rapidly in the US), and security (mass evictions, loss of income).
History is full of rebellions and uprisings because of those three issues not being common for almost everyone. And hunger is a mighty powerful motivator for people, and that one is the most dangerous one in my opinion.
So when I see the increase in hunger in the US, I also wonder just how much worse it will need to get before shit hits the fan, and when it comes to hunger, it happens extremely quickly and far too many people find it unbelievably fast..... which it isn't, the US hunger problem has been worsening for at least one year.

The Arab Spring started because the tipping point was food prices and hunger....... and that happened rapidly, and spread like wild fire. If you think the US is immune to this type of event, you are mistaken.

So, yeah, when I say fight, that means anything that is required to get the basic human rights we all deserve. How bad it is then becomes determined by how many are affected and the tolerance level for their discomfort.

People get sick of asking for the basics.... and they shouldnt even have to be asking in the first place. And when asking fails, which it is, they stop asking.....

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2021, 11:50:12 PM »
While it is easy to call for a boycott in reality it is far harder to make an effective one. If I shop somewhere there are reasons I do so and all else being equal I would continue to do so. For a boycott to work enough people need to be upset enough to make a change. I have heard the right call for boycotts and reverse boycotts. In more cases then the left these have failed. The decision makers in the right are not making a stink about this because they object to the method they are upset because recently they have not been able to use this tool as effectively. The right likes to pretend those being targeted are minding their own business doing nothing wrong. Taking a stand politically has often led to real world consequences why should the right expect any differently. African Americans have suffered far more than loss of employment trying to gain their basic rights.  So the right is learning their actions have real world consequences for them and not just others and they are pissed about it.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2021, 03:55:32 AM »
If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.
I agree with most of what you say, but not this part.

A week or two ago I read a rather sneering article about Louis Armstrong. Apparently fighting Eisenhower over segregation wasn't enough. He should have been spending every waking minute fighting racism, instead of enjoying his music, smoking pot and smiling a lot. Not everyone is cut out to be a full-time activist. There are other ways to get the message across.
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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2021, 04:59:37 AM »
If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.
I agree with most of what you say, but not this part.

A week or two ago I read a rather sneering article about Louis Armstrong. Apparently fighting Eisenhower over segregation wasn't enough. He should have been spending every waking minute fighting racism, instead of enjoying his music, smoking pot and smiling a lot. Not everyone is cut out to be a full-time activist. There are other ways to get the message across.

I am not talking about being a full time activist.
I am talking about calling out the bullshit in your own life, your own attitudes, when you see bad things happening to minorities.
It can be as simple as tell a check out person for making a nasty comment about the religion of the previous customer. Just bringing it up is fighting the good fight.

Rodius

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2021, 05:01:54 AM »
Those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same, keep things polite, and ignore those who don't have what they have.

And those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same because, heaven forbid, they might have to share some of the excess that they have. They feel a fear that if the others were to get more, they would have less.

For those who have much less rights, less justice, less food, less shelter, less job opportunity, less everything, well, how dare they want what those who have those things.... how dare they.

Of course, if those who have more and want to remain polite actually figure out that if everyone was able to reach their potential, then the brilliant women, people of color, of different culture or religion, who have a gender that doesnt match their version of normal, then we would improve the lot for everyone rather than let such talent and brilliance go to waste.

I cringe daily at the lost potential of so many brilliant people just because they are not white or male.

And Lefty thinks it is best to stay polite and have a meal?
Well, that makes you part of the problem.

We actually need to be impolite, angry and upfront about the problems, not slide them under the table of politeness.

If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.
Lefty is part of the problem, and he doesn't even realise it.

what problem? who has less rights than I do? I’m a Caucasian man who’s Caucasian grandsons line up at the back of the line as compared to equally  qualified applicants of different race or gender. You are the problem, blaming others when everything is there for anybody who wants to be responsible.

 I went to school, paid my own way  , built 2 different careers, married, raised a successful family, am on the Board of two substantial charities , my wife is on the Board of another,  we give back and never took anything we didn’t work for .

We dedicated 15 years + to raising successful children, we didn’t use drugs or drink alcohol and neither do our children , during those 15+ years we put the children first always, drove them to the enrichment programs, gifted programs etc. rather than go out and have a good time, which is what we mostly do now.

 Fairness ? THERE CAN NEVER BE FAIRNESS.

Is it fair that I developed better basketball skills than Shaquille O’Neill but he made 200 million dollars
Because he was born  to be 7’3 and could run and jump and I was born to be 5’11 and couldn’t run and and jump as well as him, no matter what I did with my better skills?

Is it fair that some girls will be born beautiful and sexy and have everything they want in the world while other girls are born to be very plain and worse and often have much tougher lives.

is it fair that some are born with  140 I.Q’s and others 100 I.Q.s ?

sometimes the 140 IQ is also born With Attention Deficit  and can’t do homework and get good grades.

Nothing is equal or fair  but there is room for everyone if they do the right thing and don’t blame racism, sexism and every other Leftist ISM  for their failures.

last time I looked about 13% of this country was African- American and about 12% of all the millionaires in this country were African- American, what’s broken ? especially when African- Americans are the much younger population.

Wake up and smell the roses.


Your entire diatribe screams blindness to the problem.
You simply don't see the problem... you really don't.

I cant even be bothered going though that post and providing you with copious amounts of information to counter every single thought you have..... you are just blind.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2021, 12:21:37 PM »
Rodius, I do know how fast it can blow up in this country. That is why I asked the question. I am afraid of a ACWII or an American Spring. With all the guns and ammo (not to mention nukes) in this country, that would be a nightmare scenario.
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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2021, 02:53:25 PM »
I think you started framing the problem accurately, but then diverged into including other spurious issues.  Your initial statement was spot on:

"Those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same, keep things polite, and ignore those who don't have what they have."

Those "haves" actively work to keep what they have and put up road blocks to keep out the "have nots."  No problem with that part of your claim.  However, then you wavered into a political agenda. 

It starts with the schools.  Those that have good schools, do not want to seem them compromised.  Even those who claim to want to improve schools for the less advantage have not been very helpful.  They even fight some of the attempts of improvement, kowtowing to local politics and ideologies.  "No Child Left Behind" only managed to bring down those districts that needed the most help.  Many point the finger at Big Business and wealthy businessmen, but this is not the problem.  Most businesses recognize your "brilliant" people and want them on their team.  Those businesses that are truly "colorblind" have been the more successful.  That is your "lost potential."  Politicians, on the other hand, cannot see this.  They focus on their particular problem and throw money at it, but refuse to implement anything that would truly alleviate the problem.  They also refuse to accept any information that the situations has improved.  If the problem goes away, they lose their agenda and their voters.  As long as they can frame the problem applicably and find an appropriate scapegoat (the "other" guy), they maintain their control. 

You are fighting last century's problems, like the generals always fighting the previous war.  Yes, I know they are not completely alleviated, and probably never will (at least not in this world).  However, if you pull focus away from the real issue(s), you join those who you claim to be are part of the problem.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2021, 04:42:30 PM »
Rodius, I do know how fast it can blow up in this country. That is why I asked the question. I am afraid of a ACWII or an American Spring. With all the guns and ammo (not to mention nukes) in this country, that would be a nightmare scenario.
[/quote

  but .. it's what you voted for , remember ?   b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2021, 08:03:57 PM »
Rodius, I do know how fast it can blow up in this country. That is why I asked the question. I am afraid of a ACWII or an American Spring. With all the guns and ammo (not to mention nukes) in this country, that would be a nightmare scenario.
[/quote

  but .. it's what you voted for , remember ?   b.c.
No, what I voted for was someone who would try to save the life of 3 million unborn babies during his term.
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LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2021, 08:16:35 PM »
Those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same, keep things polite, and ignore those who don't have what they have.

And those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same because, heaven forbid, they might have to share some of the excess that they have. They feel a fear that if the others were to get more, they would have less.

For those who have much less rights, less justice, less food, less shelter, less job opportunity, less everything, well, how dare they want what those who have those things.... how dare they.

Of course, if those who have more and want to remain polite actually figure out that if everyone was able to reach their potential, then the brilliant women, people of color, of different culture or religion, who have a gender that doesnt match their version of normal, then we would improve the lot for everyone rather than let such talent and brilliance go to waste.

I cringe daily at the lost potential of so many brilliant people just because they are not white or male.

And Lefty thinks it is best to stay polite and have a meal?
Well, that makes you part of the problem.

We actually need to be impolite, angry and upfront about the problems, not slide them under the table of politeness.

If you are not actively fighting for equality, you are part of the problem.
Lefty is part of the problem, and he doesn't even realise it.

what problem? who has less rights than I do? I’m a Caucasian man who’s Caucasian grandsons line up at the back of the line as compared to equally  qualified applicants of different race or gender. You are the problem, blaming others when everything is there for anybody who wants to be responsible.

 I went to school, paid my own way  , built 2 different careers, married, raised a successful family, am on the Board of two substantial charities , my wife is on the Board of another,  we give back and never took anything we didn’t work for .

We dedicated 15 years + to raising successful children, we didn’t use drugs or drink alcohol and neither do our children , during those 15+ years we put the children first always, drove them to the enrichment programs, gifted programs etc. rather than go out and have a good time, which is what we mostly do now.

 Fairness ? THERE CAN NEVER BE FAIRNESS.

Is it fair that I developed better basketball skills than Shaquille O’Neill but he made 200 million dollars
Because he was born  to be 7’3 and could run and jump and I was born to be 5’11 and couldn’t run and and jump as well as him, no matter what I did with my better skills?

Is it fair that some girls will be born beautiful and sexy and have everything they want in the world while other girls are born to be very plain and worse and often have much tougher lives.

is it fair that some are born with  140 I.Q’s and others 100 I.Q.s ?

sometimes the 140 IQ is also born With Attention Deficit  and can’t do homework and get good grades.

Nothing is equal or fair  but there is room for everyone if they do the right thing and don’t blame racism, sexism and every other Leftist ISM  for their failures.

last time I looked about 13% of this country was African- American and about 12% of all the millionaires in this country were African- American, what’s broken ? especially when African- Americans are the much younger population.

Wake up and smell the roses.


Your entire diatribe screams blindness to the problem.
You simply don't see the problem... you really don't.

I cant even be bothered going though that post and providing you with copious amounts of information to counter every single thought you have..... you are just blind.

What problem?
There is no problem, some people are very rich, some are upper middle class , some are middle class, sone lower working class, some poor, nobody starving AND most importantly, the people in every group mentioned have upward and downward mobility ,the groups aren’t static, you can go up or down based on YOUR abilities and that’s across every group.

Rodius

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2021, 11:45:23 PM »
Rodius, I do know how fast it can blow up in this country. That is why I asked the question. I am afraid of a ACWII or an American Spring. With all the guns and ammo (not to mention nukes) in this country, that would be a nightmare scenario.

I agree. I don't live in the US, but what happens there has global consequences.
I fear the same thing, and yet it seems like the politicians are trying the level best to create the exact conditions for an uprising.
I am reaching the point where it might be what they want to happen, but I cant figure out why other  than some insane concept of cleansing the US somehow. But surely that is too extreme?

I just don't understand why these things are worsening in an ongoing way, after a certain point the idea needs to be considered that it is deliberate.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2021, 12:05:58 AM »
I think you started framing the problem accurately, but then diverged into including other spurious issues.  Your initial statement was spot on:

"Those who have the most tend to want to keep things the same, keep things polite, and ignore those who don't have what they have."

Those "haves" actively work to keep what they have and put up road blocks to keep out the "have nots."  No problem with that part of your claim.  However, then you wavered into a political agenda. 

It starts with the schools.  Those that have good schools, do not want to seem them compromised.  Even those who claim to want to improve schools for the less advantage have not been very helpful.  They even fight some of the attempts of improvement, kowtowing to local politics and ideologies.  "No Child Left Behind" only managed to bring down those districts that needed the most help.  Many point the finger at Big Business and wealthy businessmen, but this is not the problem.  Most businesses recognize your "brilliant" people and want them on their team.  Those businesses that are truly "colorblind" have been the more successful.  That is your "lost potential."  Politicians, on the other hand, cannot see this.  They focus on their particular problem and throw money at it, but refuse to implement anything that would truly alleviate the problem.  They also refuse to accept any information that the situations has improved.  If the problem goes away, they lose their agenda and their voters.  As long as they can frame the problem applicably and find an appropriate scapegoat (the "other" guy), they maintain their control. 

You are fighting last century's problems, like the generals always fighting the previous war.  Yes, I know they are not completely alleviated, and probably never will (at least not in this world).  However, if you pull focus away from the real issue(s), you join those who you claim to be are part of the problem.

This fight is absolutely time appropriate.
It isn't last century's problem, it is ongoing and persistent for at least two or three centuries. It is so entrenched in the US that those living there cant see it. I don't say that to be mean or imply that people who live in the US are stupid, I say it because it is normal there.
Australia isn't much better and the only reason it screams at me is because I was brought up in New Zealand where racism is in your face and has a strong, healthy, ongoing debate. Yet while living there I thought the ongoing public debate and attempts to improve the situation were extreme.

But then I move to Australia and find the debate missing, and the extremes of racism are far worse. And in the US, it is the same.
Yes, people talk about it, but most people cant see the systemic racism that is in place, and White people are the most blind to it. It isn't the fault of White people, they grew up not knowing any differently. But if true change is to happen, white people need to learn how fucked up systemic racism is..... yet it is very difficult to open the eyes to what it is let alone make the required changes.

My short attempt to explain it might help..... most of what you said reflects the blindness I mention.

Systemic racism is when a group of people (white people in this case) gain an advantage simply because they are white. This advantage is with them all the time, they don't have a  choice about whether they have it or not, and the advantage is there all the time.

This essentially means that if you have a very poor white person and a very poor non-white person, then the poor white person has advantage over the others.
White people have more likelihood of getting a job over others, more likely to get into an educational facility, get a loan, get promoted, succeed in politics, get served in a shop, less likely to be arrested, charged, and jailed.... and these advantages are purely based on skin color.

This is what systemic racism is.

And those who have the advantage typically cant see it because they don't have to deal with it.

White people will continually defend how unbiased they are on a personal level, yet the evidence is clear that there is bias..... I see this as everyone thinks they are a better driver than most in spite of most people being average.... but I rarely meet anyone who thinks they are average.

It isn't the fault of the white person for not seeing it, but if we do see it, we need to do our level best to open the eyes of other white people.
When I read the story of Lefty, which is a good story of people working hard etc etc, and it is interesting, it also highlights that he doesn't understand systemic racism.
If his family had been black, they would have had to work two or three times more to achieve the same result they got as white people because society is against non white people. It wasn't that long ago (almost certainly with the lifetime of LEfty and his family story) when black people in the US were segregated. That is a massive disadvantage, and yet it is ignored when this comes up. Those things has effects on a multi generational timeframe.

So yeah, this is a problem that is very much current, and it is very much unresolved and worsening, and the most scary part of it all is the problem isn't with non-whites, it is with white people who are blind to the problem. We are the ones who need to change, adapt of lift our game. Yet we defend the current structures and scratch our collective heads about what they are complaining about or undermine their issues by saying it was soooo last century.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2021, 05:57:32 AM »

I am not sure where to put this post.
"a federal analysis found that energy producers’ procedures for winterizing their equipment “were either inadequate or were not adequately followed” in many cases. The report repeatedly cites another Texas freeze, in 1989, as a clear warning."
https://apnews.com/article/greg-abbott-energy-industry-us-news-austin-texas-9d07f7366c630a86777aca571a6e270c
What they do not say and should say is when federal regulators find a defficiency in any other location but Texas the situation must be remedied. Free markets can be good but unregulated or lightly regulated markets are short sighted. The power industry in Texas should enjoy the benefit of the same regulations as the rest of the country. The people of Texas deserve as much.
Libertarians think that the unnecessary death and suffering of Texans is an acceptable cost so they can ignore those pesky regulations.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2021, 12:03:59 PM »
Mike Snyder has a habit of exaggerating things, but I find it hard to argue with his point here.
There are other kinds of collapse than political:
The Temporary Collapse Of Texas Is Foreshadowing The Total Collapse Of The United States
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/the-temporary-collapse-of-texas-is-foreshadowing-the-total-collapse-of-the-united-states/
Quote
We are getting a very short preview of what will eventually happen to the United States as a whole.  America’s infrastructure is aging and crumbling.  Our power grids were never intended to support so many people, our water systems are a complete joke, and it has become utterly apparent that we would be completely lost if a major long-term national emergency ever struck.  Texas has immense wealth and vast energy resources, but now it is being called a “failed state”.  If it can’t even handle a few days of cold weather, what is the rest of America going to look like when things really start to get chaotic in this country?
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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2021, 04:55:16 PM »
Rodius,

First, left me say that I am not well acquainted with the circumstances in Australia and New Zealand, so I will accept your claims there.  I can however comment intelligently about your statements about the U.S.  The claim that the issue is solely white vs non-white ignores everything else about the socio-economic system in this country.  Your claim that it is the whites who are blind to the problem leads me to question your own eyesight.  Yes, systematic racism was a very big deal in the past.  Yes, whites benefitted just by being white.  To claim that the situation is unchanged, leads me to believe that you are living in the past and have not seen any of the progress made since the civil rights era.  I am not saying everything is equal; it may never be.  However, it has improved significantly since last century. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2016/06/27/1-demographic-trends-and-economic-well-being/

I am not saying that there is not room for improvement - there is still plenty.  However, the racial issue has been eclipsed by a socio-economic one.  The wealthy are the haves, while the poor are the have nots.  Skin color (white, black, brown, red, yellow, etc.) has less to do with that than in the past.  Today, most of the advantage granted the white population stems from heritage.  Their parents had more wealth and opportunity, which was passed down.  The black/white issue is much more easily resolved than the wealth issue.  That is the reason that I claim that focusing on the race issue, while ignoring the wealth issue, cannot solve the problem.  Even if the racial issue disappeared entirely, the wealth gap would persist, and little would have changed.

gerontocrat

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2021, 11:31:07 PM »
Mike Snyder has a habit of exaggerating things, but I find it hard to argue with his point here.
There are other kinds of collapse than political:
The Temporary Collapse Of Texas Is Foreshadowing The Total Collapse Of The United States

Quote
We are getting a very short preview of what will eventually happen to the United States as a whole.  America’s infrastructure is aging and crumbling.  Our power grids were never intended to support so many people, our water systems are a complete joke, ......

The various professional associations of the USA (engineers dealing with roads, bridges, water systems, the elctricity infrastructure, public buildings especially schools) have been writing reports and appearing before committees since whenever to tell the politicos that the USA has and continues to build a humongous Infrastructure Maintenance & Replacement Deficit.

But Politicos can find loads of money to build fancy new stuff (especially if it's got their name on it), but asking for funds for repair, maintenance and replacement is asking for the moon.
A lot of this is due to the USA culture of expecting to be able to simply knock old stuff down and build ever bigger (and better?) new stuff.

So yes, some chickens have come back to roost, and a very large flock is still circling the roost.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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oren

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2021, 11:10:05 AM »
I must agree, the events unfolding in Texas show the road between civilization and collapse is a short one indeed. Not to say we didn't know it or think it, but it is one thing to think something and yet another thing to see an example of it in real life.

be cause

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2021, 04:53:33 PM »
but nothing could possibly go wrong when they all have Ted Cruz watching their backs ..
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

vox_mundi

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2021, 05:19:08 PM »


“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #86 on: February 21, 2021, 03:57:06 AM »
but nothing could possibly go wrong when they all have Ted Cruz watching their backs ..

Actually, this is 100% Ted Cruz’s fault as is the death of the 100,000 people who have died from Covid  since Biden took office clearly Trump’s.
On the other hand, suggesting either of those concept’s is is true, might be a form of mental illness.

gerontocrat

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2021, 08:15:57 PM »
but nothing could possibly go wrong when they all have Ted Cruz watching their backs ..

Actually, this is 100% Ted Cruz’s fault as is the death of the 100,000 people who have died from Covid  since Biden took office clearly Trump’s.
On the other hand, suggesting either of those concept’s is is true, might be a form of mental illness.
100% Ted Cruz's fault ? No, but not from the want of trying.

100% Trump's fault that nearly 100,000 US citizens have died from Covid since Jan 20? Pretty much, since so many screw-ups were by his people, he encouraged others to screw up, and he attacked those who knew what to do.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2021, 11:11:39 PM »
but nothing could possibly go wrong when they all have Ted Cruz watching their backs ..

Actually, this is 100% Ted Cruz’s fault as is the death of the 100,000 people who have died from Covid  since Biden took office clearly Trump’s.
On the other hand, suggesting either of those concept’s is is true, might be a form of mental illness.
100% Ted Cruz's fault ? No, but not from the want of trying.

100% Trump's fault that nearly 100,000 US citizens have died from Covid since Jan 20? Pretty much, since so many screw-ups were by his people, he encouraged others to screw up, and he attacked those who knew what to do.

Of course you are correct, Trump designed the virus in Wuhan and personally spread it throughout the world where 2,000,000 have died outside of the U.S.
When he banned air flights from China the Leftists screamed Racist and said there was no reason to ban anyone from coming to the U.S. FACT.
Trump then told the Blue State Governors to throw the Covid sick into nursing homes which caused the death of thousands. Not a fact!
Then Trump told the Drs. to put people on respirators which pretty much guaranteed death for them. Not a fact.
When Trump suggested that the Malaria drug might help, they killed him but now every article I read say’s the drug saves lives and was very useful after all.FACT!

Bottomline is how do rational thinking people believe people who have their heads up their behinds on important issues like Global warming when they gather together and say any stupid thing and agree with each other despite the lack of real evidence.

I always tell my buddy who was a long time editor at the NYTIMES that if you want credibility it can’t be that your enemy, Trump, white men, Israel , whomever, is wrong every single time and on every issue, that they are the  cause of everything bad and nothing good because then you lose all credibility  in the face of those of us who look at both sides of every issue and are reasonable.

Fell in deaf ears.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 11:29:41 PM by LeftyLarry »

Rodius

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2021, 11:25:37 PM »
but nothing could possibly go wrong when they all have Ted Cruz watching their backs ..

Actually, this is 100% Ted Cruz’s fault as is the death of the 100,000 people who have died from Covid  since Biden took office clearly Trump’s.
On the other hand, suggesting either of those concept’s is is true, might be a form of mental illness.
100% Ted Cruz's fault ? No, but not from the want of trying.

100% Trump's fault that nearly 100,000 US citizens have died from Covid since Jan 20? Pretty much, since so many screw-ups were by his people, he encouraged others to screw up, and he attacked those who knew what to do.

And Trump also understood that Covid was going to be dangerous and decided to do nothing. That is an active decision to do nothing or as little as possible and then went on to undermine the dangers is repeated speeches while undermining efforts to take action throughout his term.
If action had happened, the disaster of death and damage caused by Covid would have been vastly reduced..... so yeah, Trump plays a significant role in what happened in terms of Covid.

LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2021, 11:38:52 PM »
but nothing could possibly go wrong when they all have Ted Cruz watching their backs ..

Actually, this is 100% Ted Cruz’s fault as is the death of the 100,000 people who have died from Covid  since Biden took office clearly Trump’s.
On the other hand, suggesting either of those concept’s is is true, might be a form of mental illness.
100% Ted Cruz's fault ? No, but not from the want of trying.

100% Trump's fault that nearly 100,000 US citizens have died from Covid since Jan 20? Pretty much, since so many screw-ups were by his people, he encouraged others to screw up, and he attacked those who knew what to do.

And Trump also understood that Covid was going to be dangerous and decided to do nothing. That is an active decision to do nothing or as little as possible and then went on to undermine the dangers is repeated speeches while undermining efforts to take action throughout his term.
If action had happened, the disaster of death and damage caused by Covid would have been vastly reduced..... so yeah, Trump plays a significant role in what happened in terms of Covid.
Out of context.
You do realize that suicide is way up, huge amounts of people have lost their businesses that they often worked their entires lives to create and the loss of income to the government and rising debt will come back and bite all Americans and sooner rather than later.
we’re the Chinese or the WHO in any way forthcoming in what they knew was the potential of this disease?
Where was the left?
Where were the Europeans and every other country?
Isn’t it sick to be so disengenuous but think it’s OK because your buddies act as an amen corner to you and you believe you are in the right so it’s OK to lie and exaggerate.
Don’t you know this is how Stalin, Mao, even Hitler went about it?
You do know that Stalin and Lenin before him called the Leftists from America, “useful Idiots “ for a reason.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2021, 10:19:16 AM »
Quote
over 12% of Pennsylvania households were experiencing hunger at the end of 2020.
This number is huge. In the supposedly richest most powerful country in the world.

(Cross post from the Covid recession thread).

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2021, 12:22:01 PM »
Quote
over 12% of Pennsylvania households were experiencing hunger at the end of 2020.
This number is huge. In the supposedly richest most powerful country in the world.

(Cross post from the Covid recession thread).
Actually it is the richest and most powerful.
But the riches are concentrated almost all in the upper half, and most of that in the "One percent". And the power is to incinerate the planet twenty times over (which it can't realistically use) and the rest of its power it tends (since 1945) to blunder with.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

The Walrus

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2021, 03:16:21 PM »
Quote
over 12% of Pennsylvania households were experiencing hunger at the end of 2020.
This number is huge. In the supposedly richest most powerful country in the world.

(Cross post from the Covid recession thread).

From the report, "To a large extent, the rise in hunger nationally as well as in Pennsylvania is caused by job losses associated with the lockdowns implemented to stem the spread of the Corona virus."

LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2021, 08:25:06 PM »
Quote
over 12% of Pennsylvania households were experiencing hunger at the end of 2020.
This number is huge. In the supposedly richest most powerful country in the world.

(Cross post from the Covid recession thread).

Are we making believe that this isn’t a result of Covid ?

no, a country that owes out 28 trillion dollars is not rich.

Illegal immigration, bad economic deals made by the swamp, lots of reasons we aren’t a rich country anymore, though we do have a lot of wealth and a large economy which is different than being a rich country.

Lastly, did you notice who conducted the study? Penn State leftists, I would guess it included people who went to bed hungry on Tuesday and were fed on Wednesday, etc.
Welfare payments weren’t stopped, food stamps weren’t stopped, we are talking typical Leftist Content with no context.
my guess is they went to illegal immigrant areas where it was harder to get govt assistance because they aren’t eligible and no longer had Restaurants to work in due to Covid.

oren

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2021, 05:55:35 AM »
Really it's not enough for you that over 500,000 have died? You still grudge the meager steps that were actually taken to stem the virus in the US? You might wonder how other countries had much less dead, took much greater steps including longer and stricter lockdowns, and yet hunger did not manifest itself.
The problems in the US are structural, the virus has just exposed them.

The Walrus

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2021, 01:34:16 PM »
Really it's not enough for you that over 500,000 have died? You still grudge the meager steps that were actually taken to stem the virus in the US? You might wonder how other countries had much less dead, took much greater steps including longer and stricter lockdowns, and yet hunger did not manifest itself.
The problems in the US are structural, the virus has just exposed them.

Yes, the steps taken were only to protect the rich and powerful.  They were able to work from home and stay connected without loss of income or security.  That was not true of the working poor, many of whom lost their jobs when the country locked down.  The virus was a short-term issue.  The poor are a long-term problem.  The powers that be just ensured that the problem will be around a lot longer.  You seem to be advocating for keeping the poor in their lot.

LeftyLarry

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2021, 06:14:56 PM »
Here is a map of Corona deaths.

I would suggest there is zero evidence to suggest economics, race or gender or anything else was involved in who died from Covid and who didn’t, so your concept that the poor were left to get sick and die is totally unfounded .

Yes, we live in a community zoned for 2+ acres , so we had less contact with people close to us than if we had lived in an apartment building in NYC and took the subway every morning and went into elevators but some people got sick here too.

Had zero to do with rich and poor.

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-deaths-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Race%20Categories%20Include%20Hispanic%20Individuals%22,%22sort%22:%22desc%22%7D
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 12:35:05 AM by LeftyLarry »

Rodius

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2021, 01:26:38 AM »
I find it amusing that Leftist believes in trickle down economics but talks about how the rich are rich but really the US is poor.
Assuming the belief system of trickle down is correct, one would think the poor would have more money from all the money flowing down from those rich people, yet, oddly, it hasn't/doesnt happened.

Covid didn't cause the problems in the US. Politics did it.

Australia isn't all that different to the US, yet we locked down, approached it as a health crisis, and did what was required to control Covid as best as possible..... yet the economic problems we have here are minor compared the US problems in terms of things getting worse and we didnt have all that many people (relatively speaking) die from Covid.

We are effectively open barring the mask wearing and the odd local lockdown when Covid pops up, which typically lasts less than 5 days.

We also support people (mostly) who lost jobs, propped up struggling business sectors (tourism and fruit picking at the moment), give people who get tested and waiting the result money to tide them over the three days it takes to get the result back so people follow the rules of not working while waiting. And we have done just fine.

The US, honestly, totally fucked up the entire response from day one, and Trump led that charge. I am truly boggled as to how this is obvious given the proof that is on hand.

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Re: The Collapse Of America
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2021, 02:02:58 AM »
That pennsylvania report was by the College of Ag Sciences at Penn State. Characterizing them as leftists is so wrong as to be ludicrous. That ag science department is one of the most corporate ag aligned departments that i have come across. They sold their souls to monsanto and conagra a loooong time ago. I still interact with that department for various reasons, the ag extension services and some of the professors are competent as long as you stay away from their evangelism of monocrop corporate agriculture and CAFO.

The data in the report was from a US census survey, but no doubt the US census will be charged with being a leftist organization ...

I spent some years at penn state in the 90's and that is one of the most racist and bigoted places i have ever lived. Jerry Sandusky was buggering little boys and winning championships with his defense as JoePa and the trustees looked the other way. Happy Valley (yes, thats the name) has a population that is white as milk, and are equal opportunity racist. As it turned out, I only found out that my neighbour at the time was a grand dragon of the KKK when he was busted for an incident involving a burning cross and possibly more important, assaulting a policeman. I personally never had a problem with him, but then i never saw him much. Live and learn.


sidd