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J Cartmill

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2021, 11:58:28 PM »
I think the original graph is logarithmic.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2021, 04:31:30 PM »
Quote
< Radar can tell you “I detect something moving, moving towards us”
Vision can tell you “I see that SUV in the lane immediately to our right moving closer to us”

Elon Musk
Not sure who wrote this, but it’s accurate ⬇️
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1397623469739692036
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oren

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2021, 08:54:15 PM »
Elon being Elon, always 200% confident of his new direction.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2021, 09:22:45 PM »
Elon being Elon, always 200% confident of his new direction.

Addressing the climate Sword of Damocles hanging over us requires moving fast, and not wasting time trying to perfect dead ends, even if they once looked promising.

Eric Berger’s book “Liftoff!” and Sandy Munro’s videos about his visit to Boca Chica comment on meetings held late at night, with Musk as an engineer examining the physics and making bold decisions.  As Musk has said, nobody has changed the world working 9 to 5.
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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2021, 09:23:26 PM »
I do understand this one though.  Early on in the CIWS (close in weapons systems), for naval ships, they postulated a situation where two missiles were approaching the ship with exactly the same parameters, nothing to choose from between them.  They tested the software under that scenario and the computer couldn't choose.  So it didn't do anything.

In this case it comes down to weighting.  If you weight radar higher than vision, but radar gives a much poorer signal in this case, what does the computer do?  Radar is more capable for some things but fails spectacularly in a very few edge cases.  Vision can see when radar has failed but radar has the higher score.

When you reduce it to logic, you either ramp the computer to the skies to be able to analyse every decision (human capacity), or reduce the inputs and make sure they make sense.

It was my thinking that more inputs could help.  The problem is that it can also create confusion.  So, at the logic level, Musk has every reason to be totally convinced. They learned this one the hard way.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2021, 01:56:33 AM »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2021, 02:34:27 AM »
Quote
green
Tested driver monitoring on 2021.4.5.11.
Tesla appears to only care about phone use when there are other cars around.
Pretend-sleeping or looking into a window did not cause the alert.
➡️ https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1399124384841879560
8 sec clip

—-
Quote
Hey @elonmusk, could you please make SpaceX rocket launches less distracting?
Thank you.
Signed,
HumanPilot
➡️ https://twitter.com/kiwiev/status/1399071359423111168
16 sec. Results of distracted driving. :o
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vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2021, 01:45:04 AM »
from America's Finest News Source ...

Homeowner Shoos Away Feral Driverless Car Rooting Around Garage
https://www.theonion.com/homeowner-shoos-away-feral-driverless-car-rooting-aroun-1847026293

ATHENS, OH—Expressing annoyance at the pest that had taken up residence in her house, local woman Rebecca Behneke was reportedly shooing away a feral driverless car Thursday that was rooting around in her garage. “I was in the living room and heard some rustling noises, and I walk into the garage to see this little guy rummaging through old boxes, probably looking for some electricity,” said Behneke, confirming that the car was without registration or license plates and looked as though it had been living on the street for months.

“At first, I tried to just push the vehicle out with a broom, but it started honking and revving like it was scared so I stopped that. These cars are generally harmless, but if they’re provoked, they can be dangerous or even deadly to humans. Fortunately, I was able to lure it out eventually by standing near the street while dangling an extension cord.”

At press time, Behneke was reportedly horrified after moving a tarp and discovering a nest of baby e-scooters.

---------------------------------------



----------------------------------------

https://www.boldbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/when-exactly-can-we-expect-the-arrival-of-self-driving-cars-cartoon.jpg

https://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/bokc/art_images/cg5bfb9753522b6.jpg
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 02:09:24 AM by vox_mundi »
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vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2021, 01:48:05 PM »
Toyota Breaks Ground for "Woven City"
https://www.woven-planet.global/news-release/20210223

Construction of the prototype city of the future where all ecosystems are connected begins at the Higashi-Fuji site (Susono City, Shizuoka Prefecture)

Japanese auto-maker Toyota is building its own test “city” for robots on a 175-acre portion of land where a factory used to be (see an artist’s conception here). The place is called “Woven City,” and in early 2020, Toyota released a short video to promote the effort.



Why is Toyota doing this?

Given the pace of technological change, the company has calculated that a “shift from an automobile manufacturer to a mobility company” is in its best interests moving forward.
And “Woven City” will help Toyota “bring new technology to life in a real-world environment across a wide range of areas, such as automated driving, personal mobility, robotics, and artificial intelligence (AI).” The ultimate goal, Toyota’s PR team says, is to “create an environment where inventions with the potential to solve social issues are created on a timely basis.”
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2021, 05:36:56 PM »
Quote
Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) is becoming an AI robotics company. This is integral to any defensible valuation of the company. Yet so many equity analysts have either denied this fact or hand-waved it away by simply declaring it outside the scope of their analysis. This is an error of tectonic scale. I believe this error results in Tesla stock being priced at something on the order of 50% of what it ought to be.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4434917-with-fsd-v9-tesla-is-becoming-an-ai-robotics-company

Whilst an informed and bullish article on where AI is taking Tesla and what it may do for Tesla, I believe the author has missed a key point of the story.

Dojo, not FSD Beta V9.x, is the major differentiator for Tesla.  V9 will be the tool which opens up the system to the benefits of Dojo.  However it will be the advanced training provided by Dojo which will make the next paradigm shift in the self driving AI world.

Interesting analysis all the same.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2021, 06:24:36 PM »
I had to look it up (internet search), maybe others can use the definition:
Quote
"Project Dojo" is Tesla's attempt to create a computer that can engage videos of driving to become more proficient at the skill. "Dojo" is made in order to train a host of multiple AI that will enable Tesla electric cars to drive on their own.
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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2021, 07:43:43 PM »
Apologies it has been mentioned here a few times but I guess some will have missed it.

Dojo is more than just a training computer.  Dojo is an AI, itself, that is being trained to recognise and label data to identify objects, events and context of those objects and events.  It is an artificial intelligence specifically designed and built to be able to rip through millions, or even billions, of hours of data and correctly sort, label and correlate so that it can be used for training the driving AI.

Dojo itself is an AI, but the intelligence is designed to produce data of learning AI which will use the output of Dojo to be better drivers.

Nvidia is doing something similar but Nvidia is building it as an AI training service it can sell to other companies who want to make their AI drivers better drivers.

So whilst the author correctly identifies that it is the volume of training that FSD will receive which will make the difference between levels 2 and 5; the author fails to make the link that Dojo is the key tool which will significantly reduce the amount of time that this training will take.

Whilst it is correct that FSD at V9.x needs to be competent enough to take the training and become a better driver, without the teacher, the capability of the student is irrelevant.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2021, 09:24:28 PM »
Static object detection in Tesla FSD BETA - YouTube
10 minutes. How does the car react to cones, bags and buckets in the road?


—-
Mobileye has a (very large) “kit” of equipment to turn any car into an autonomous vehicle.
Tesla designs its car with autonomy built in.
Comma.ai uses a cell phone’s camera and software to add after-market autonomy to certain cars’ ADAS systems.
Quote
Self-driving cars are meant to end car accidents – but what happens when a kid jumps into the street? Mobileye CEO Amnon Shashua explains haaretz.com/israel-news/.p…
➡️ https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1380450187475365891
3 min Mobileye vid, captioned in english
 
< LOL @ MobileEye packing the trunk absolutely full of desktop computers and Ethernet cables to do what Tesla is already doing on 1 ultra-efficient purpose-built FSD chip.
@elonmusk saw this eventuality coming years ago and developed a fully-proprietary hardware/software system.
https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/1404534120940724230
⬇️ Image below.

<< They are behind more than Tesla…comma.ai. This open source option will be the competitor that causes TSLA to lower [their] FSD prices.
https://twitter.com/socal_klutz/status/1404539242127060992
Link to comma.ai :  “Introducing Open Pilot”
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2021, 08:49:41 PM »
Quote
Andrej Karpathy
Gave a talk at CVPR over the weekend on our recent work at Tesla Autopilot to estimate very accurate depth, velocity, acceleration with neural nets from vision. Necessary ingredients include: 1M car fleet data engine, strong AI team and a Supercomputer
6/21/21, 12:47 PM. https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1407017269083865095
 
Workshop on Autonomous Driving at CVPR'21 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=28286&v=eOL_rCK59ZI&feature=youtu.be
[Andrej’s talk begins at 7h 51m ]

Tesla details its self-driving Supercomputer that will bring in the Dojo era
By Joey Klender June 21, 2021
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-self-driving-supercomputer-dojo-presentation-andrej-karpathy-video/

⬇️ Screencaps from the video.
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crandles

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2021, 08:27:47 PM »
I think the original graph is logarithmic.

I did one to see:

Looks like the graph might be one step up for each different thing then delete a few rows?

Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2021, 01:56:15 AM »
Quote
Horrible news this weekend — Boryana Straubel, Founder, Tesla veteran, and wife of J. B. Straubel died Saturday morning when a Ford Edge crossed the double yellow line and hit her bike
This is so horrible. We have to stop these daily tragedies.
6/21/21 https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1407094071173156864

Washoe Valley woman killed in cycling crash
https://www.nevadaappeal.com/news/2021/jun/21/washoe-valley-woman-killed-cycling-crash/

—-
Quote
"Self driving cars need to be as good as human drivers before anyone will take them seriously."
Human drivers:
https://twitter.com/kiwiev/status/1405930588767494145
24 sec. vid. at the link. :o

—-
SMR video. 30 min.
Tesla AI Director Gives MIND BLOWING Update On Autonomy
➡️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMmDJtKqxos&feature=youtu.be

SOURCE
◆ Andrej Karpathy (Tesla): CVPR 2021 Workshop on Autonomous Vehicles 
Quote
The robotaxis are coming. HUGE update, big bombshell! In this video I react to, share my thoughts and opinions on a presentation by Tesla's director of AI (Tesla Vision), Andrej Karpathy who is the world's leading computer vision expert, updating the world on Tesla's progress toward solving autonomy (full self driving robotaxis). Andrej talks about Tesla's insane supercomputer, neural networks, data sourcing, pure vision approach (removal of radar) and shows how far ahead Tesla is and that they are one of the world's leading artificial intelligence companies.

Geo-fenced robo-taxis are on “invisible rails” within a previously LIDAR-mapped environment.  Take them out of their little environment and they are worthless — you can’t just add a new robo fleet wherever you want without mapping it all first. Now compare Tesla’s generalized solution….

Tesla already has over a million cars feeding real, non-test data to be used to train its neural net.  No other company has this, nor will one have a bigger fleet than Tesla for the foreseeable future.

SMR: If you don’t have the fleet, you cannot compete.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2021, 06:32:40 AM »
Zoox Releases Updated In-Depth Safety Report for Its Robo-Taxi
https://techxplore.com/news/2021-06-zoox-in-depth-safety-robo-taxi.html

The team at Amazon-owned Zoox has released an in-depth safety report detailing the safety features engineers have built into the company's autonomous vehicle, a robo-taxi, and have published it online.

https://t.co/84vyOmG8Zv?amp=1

... One thing not mentioned in the report is when the company plans to start putting its vehicles into service transporting people.
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2021, 02:53:03 PM »
Quote
MAPPING
High-fidelity maps are crucial for enabling autonomous
vehicles to know exactly where they are. We are
developing our own mapping technology as well as
the maps themselves, which guarantees a high level
of resolution and quality.

Fail.

Humans can drive on any street, anywhere, without knowing where they are.  Great to know exactly where you are but any driving technology which has to be pre mapped in high fidelity is going to fail.

Fine if you only want to do do a city taxi service.  But for an autonomous vehicle which you want to take you home?  To the suburbs, down your obscure suburban street?

People take taxi's home as well as from place to place in the city.

Another concern I have with this is the sheer volume of crash safe technology being pushed into these vehicles.  First of all this assumes they're going to have a crash.  Secondly, the more technology you push into a car, the more it is likely to break and the less lifetime you have before it has to have a major overhaul.  Silicon tech is OK, but airbags are physical, mechanical, technology.  They get dirt in them, they suffer from vibration and the simple wear and tear of getting into and out of a vehicle.  Adding airbags to the seat means they are susceptible to the stress of people getting into and out of the seat.

This design is for a Robo Taxi.  Taxi companies are businesses where they balance cost against income and profit.  Maintenance is a cost and therefore to be minimised.  This is not compatible with huge increases in technology in the vehicles.

Kudos for the thinking, but most of the safety tech is aimed at highway speed driving where crashes are regularly fatal.  In City driving has far more accidents and far less fatalities of people inside the vehicles.

The whole approach is about how driving has not been made much safer in terms of deaths on the roads for decades, regardless of safety tech they put in the cars, then they go on about how much additional safety tech they are pushing into the cars.

The whole spiel is off balance.  Granted they talk about seat belts and the stats are pretty stark.  More than half the deaths on the roads in the US are from drivers not wearing seat belts.  Then again, mandating seatbelt use is not quite as simple as it might seem.  I'm pretty sure that a simple "seat belt" T shirt would fool the zoox.  If someone were utterly determined to defeat the Zoox sensors, pulling out the seat belt, clipping it in and sitting on the excess whilst wearing a T shirt with a pseudo seat belt on it would probably do the trick.

Why people would go to those lengths I don't know but I do know that there were many "seat belt" T shirts in the UK when the law was changed to mandate the use of seat belts.

There is another point here I'm curious about.  4 wheel steering.  In the Army we had a cross country forklift called the Eager Beaver.  It was great in the close in low speed work around the workshops where we needed to lift stuff.  Over 20mph it was difficult to drive, at 40mph it was impossible to drive.  The only way to drive it was to lock the rear wheels in position.  I see that the Zoox has a theoretical top speed of 75mph.  I wonder just how well they manage the steering at that speed.  Even the slightest change in the rear steering will destabilise the vehicle, even play in the track rod ends will do it.  Which means as they get older it will become more difficult to control.  I'm wondering if the software locks the rear wheels at speed?  After all, the very LAST thing you want, at speeds over 40mph, is a very tight steering circle.  The vehicle will simply flip.  In fact advanced electric steering systems give you less steering capability at speed for exactly this reason.

The whole thing seems, to me, to be aimed at the in city taxi market.  But the majority of people who die, in vehicles, on the road, are on the highways.

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oren

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2021, 07:22:56 AM »
Quote
Generalized self-driving is a hard problem, as it requires solving a large part of real-world AI. I didn’t expect it to be so hard, but the difficulty is obvious in retrospect. Nothing has more degrees of freedom than reality.
I don't mean to sound condescending, but the difficulty was obvious in advance to many who have doubted Elon's overconfidence along the way. While I commend the effort and hope it comes to fruition, expectations should have been set realistically. Elon has learned not to overpromise many things about Tesla, and the company is managed much better as a result, but on self-driving he is still set in his old ways and I am sure this also reflects internally. I can only imagine the mayhem, with radar being ditched so recently, after the whole thing was supposed to be ready.

https://electrek.co/2021/07/05/elon-musk-admits-self-driving-harder-than-he-thought-tesla-troll-missed-deadlines/

Quote
Electrek’s Take
Look, the man is trying to bring to market a potentially revolutionary technology that, if successful, is going to profoundly change the way we use cars forever.

It’s going to make transportation safer and unlock one of the most valuable commodities for a lot of people: time.

He could be forgiven for mispredicting a few timelines along the way.

Especially considering Tesla’s approach to self-driving is unlike any other company out there despite hundreds of them working on the same problem.

The automaker is leveraging a fleet of now over a million vehicles to feed an insane amount of data to machine learning neural nets powering a pure computer vision system.

It’s extremely difficult to predict the curve of improvement for such a system.

However, where Elon loses some goodwill is that Tesla has been selling the “full self-driving” capacity to people for a long time at a somewhat expensive price, and those people unsurprisingly are asking for results.

sidd

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2021, 08:35:14 AM »
Re: with radar being ditched

Have they really ? Rejected low wavelength EM entirely in favour of visual and IR range ?

I always thought of radar as a safety override kinda  thing, given the difficulties. And then there is sonar too, not EM tho.

But then, i'm a kinda guy who likes more data.

sidd



Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2021, 01:30:21 PM »
Re: with radar being ditched

Have they really ? Rejected low wavelength EM entirely in favour of visual and IR range ?

I always thought of radar as a safety override kinda  thing, given the difficulties. And then there is sonar too, not EM tho.

But then, i'm a kinda guy who likes more data.

sidd

The problem arises when radar “disagrees” with visual — which do you use?  Tesla knows that solving Visual is what is required to solve FSD. 

Radar, LIDAR, HD maps and geofencing are only crutches, which prove that your visual system is not as good as it has to be.  Human visual perception is not perfect, but it is the standard, which FSD AI must beat.  Only when Visual AI is superior on its own can radar be trusted to add another layer of safety.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2021, 04:24:10 PM »
Hacker “green” tweeted some videos and images of the Tesla Neural Net applying depth perception to vision.

The original Twitter thread starts here:
https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1412597331984367616

Or try this:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1412597331984367616.html

Quote
… Worked with @rice_fry on the Tesla depth perception NN.

Remember that stuff in
➡️https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR0bDLCElKg

Well, the cars actually have a depth perceiving net inside indeed. though unlike what's shown it's a lot lower res

A whopping 160x120 grid (so 1/8th of the native camera resolution) but hey those are actual 3D points in space. I don't know how to make a 3D video, so just visualizing "distance" as "brighter = closer" on the scale of 5 to 62 meters (the actual limit of the output):
https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1412597331984367616
⬇️Screencap below.  Images and videos at the link.

Also:
Tesla to Update UI with New 'mind of car' View Along with FSD Wide Release
Quote
In early May, [Musk] confirmed that the 'mind of car' view refers to a smoother rendering that will appear in the car's display. Instead of the previous representation of uncertainty, drivers will be able to see visualizations of probability distributions, he wrote.

Probability distributions are theoretical distributions based on assumptions about a source population. The distributions assign a probability to the event that a random variable has a specific, discrete value, or falls within a specified range of continuous values. Probability distribution objects allow to fit a probability distribution to sample data, or define a distribution by specifying parameter values. Thus, we are talking about the fact that the visualization in the new version of FSD Beta will be smoother and more familiar, and at the same time, it will not contain unnecessary information that is not needed by Tesla drivers.
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-updated-ui-with-a-new-mind-of-car-view-coming-with-fsd-wide-release
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 04:29:43 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2021, 05:50:40 PM »
If I saw that screen on my (auto-piloted) car's screen in heavy fog, I'd be worried!  The best I can figure, there is a steep drop-off just to the right of me.  :-\
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2021, 05:59:52 PM »
If I saw that screen on my (auto-piloted) car's screen in heavy fog, I'd be worried!  The best I can figure, there is a steep drop-off just to the right of me.  :-\

As green noted, this is only a dumbed-down representation for us poor humans of the data the car is busy analyzing in 3D. :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2021, 10:05:50 PM »
The difficulties of moving around autonomously in a 3D world with only a 2D understanding was illustrated well this week by the JPL programmers planning the Mars helicopter Ingenuity’s trip across a crater.
Quote
When we as human beings look at moving images of the ground, such as those taken by Ingenuity’s navigation camera, we instantly have a pretty good understanding of what we’re looking at. We see rocks and ripples, shadows and texture, and the ups and downs of the terrain are relatively obvious. Ingenuity, however, doesn’t have human perception and understanding of what it’s looking at. It sees the world in terms of individual, anonymous features – essentially dots that move around with time – and it tries to interpret the movement of those dots.

To make that job easier, we gave Ingenuity’s navigation algorithm some help: We told it that those features are all located on flat ground. That freed the algorithm from trying to work out variations in terrain height, and enabled it to concentrate on interpreting the movement of the features by the helicopter’s movements alone. But complications arise if we then try to fly over terrain that isn’t really flat. 

Differences in terrain height will cause features to move across the field of view at different rates, and Ingenuity’s navigation algorithm still “assumes” the ground below is flat. It does its best to explain the movement of the features by changes in the helicopter’s movements, which can lead to errors. Most significantly, it can result in errors in the estimated heading, which will cause the helicopter to fly in a different direction than intended. …
https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/status/314/flight-9-was-a-nail-biter-but-ingenuity-came-through-with-flying-colors/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2021, 04:49:01 PM »
Or, you can avoid the difficulties of developing an autonomous system completely — by using remote drivers, like this! ;D

Could your next rental car be a robotaxi? T-Mobile teams with startup for 5G driverless electric car service
Jul. 8, 2021
Quote
Here's a new twist in self-driving cars: Your ride arrives and it's an electric vehicle with no driver. Then, you drive your rental car where you want and once you arrive, you exit the vehicle and it takes off on its own.

Later this year, Las Vegas will be the testing ground for a pilot program sending driverless EVs, driven by a remote pilot, to customers who order a car via a mobile app. When the car arrives, the driver gets in and drives to their destination. After the rental driver leaves, the remote driver directs the EV to its next location.

Autonomous and driverless car technology company Halo plans to make the service available initially in urban parts of the Las Vegas Valley. Remote drivers have a 360-degree video view – just as if they were in the car – and additional sensors eliminate blind spots. Video and data are sent via T-Mobile's 5G network, the provider and Halo announced Thursday.

"You push a button and summon an electric car. It just comes to your doorstep," Anand Nandakumar, the founder and CEO of Halo, told USA TODAY. "You hop in and you drive the car to your destination and once you are done, hop off and walk away and the car just disappears."

In addition to remote drivers piloting the Kia Niro crossover SUVs from Halo's mission control, Halo equips the vehicles with an artificial intelligence-driven "Advanced Safe Stop mechanism" that automatically brings the cars to a full stop when there's a potential safety hazard or a system anomaly, the company said.
Risks in self-driving car tests

Las Vegas has been a hotspot for the testing of self-driving vehicles with demonstrations held during the Consumer Electronics Show beginning in January 2017. Between May 2018 and February 2020 in Las Vegas, Lyft and autonomous tech company Aptiv delivered more than 100,000 robotaxi self-driving rides, with a human driver sitting in the driver's seat. Lyft sold its self-driving unit in April to Woven Planet Holdings, a Toyota subsidiary for about $550 million.

Halo's program seeks to build trust in autonomous vehicles, as well as increase the use of electric cars, Nandakumar said. "Consumers never get an opportunity to actually see an autonomous car deployed on public roads. They never get a chance to interact with it or take rides with it," he said.

Pricing has not yet been announced, but Halo robotaxi rides will be "highly affordable for everyone," the companies said.

Beyond that, Halo's service seeks to solve the problem of "the last mile between your last transit stop and your workplace or your home," said John Saw, executive vice president of advanced and emerging tech at T-Mobile and a member of the 5G Open Innovation LAb's advisory board. "This is a great use case. It helps us show the world, hey, we are not just talking about it but we are showing what we can do with 5G."
https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Ftech%2F2021%2F07%2F08%2Ft-mobile-startup-plan-driverless-rental-car-service
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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2021, 05:18:38 PM »
Now that Tesla's FSD Beta V9 has shipped, it is worth having a think about what they did.

From my perspective Tesla took their time to update the interface and incorporate a significant amount of learning which was not being shared with V8.x

The update to the interface is very pretty, but most of this could have been there before had Tesla wanted to do it before.

But the changes are far more subtle and show a significant change in the amount of data that is being processed and also the amount of context contained within the system.

People with dogs show as people with dogs.  Cars, busses, heavy vehicles, pickups, motorcycles, all are recognised and rendered.  Also vehicle and vehicle type is identified for vehicles parked up on the roadside.  Parking angle is recognised and pedestrians are tracked to locations the vehicle cannot fully see, but logic dictates where they are.  This is a very important one because it is what we do as humans when other humans are walking about.  If we see them walk behind a vehicle in a direction, we expect them to come out the other side it is not a surprise and we are waiting for it to happen.  It would appear FSD has this learning too.

Little things like showing brake lights seems like a gimmick.  Yet this is how we, as humans, using vision, detect what other vehicles are doing. We do, or most of us do, recognise closing distance loss as the vehicle in front brakes.  But if we see the brake lights first, we react faster and avoid issues.  FSD is already able to do this.

It seems that we have migrated from a child behind the wheel to an adolescent behind the wheel.  How long it takes to train that intelligence to be an adult behind the wheel who can pass a permit?  That is the question. But looking at FSD V9, I'd say that it now comes down to data and learning in earnest.  So the wider adoption of V9 beta for testing, the faster it gets to Adult level 5.

It is, however, a very big move forward.

Yes there have been issues.  Some owners have reported that once the environment becomes extremely busy, the whole system seems to slow down and become more unsure.

How many people have done driving instruction after passing their test?  How many have sat more tests after their main vehicle test?  How many people recognise exactly what is going on here in terms of experience and learning?

I read an article about the 11 things FSD did wrong.  Every one of them I recall my kids doing when I was teaching them to drive.  One I did myself in a Land Rover in Germany when I became confused with left turning from 6 lanes of traffic into 9 lanes on the particular interchange.  I wound up on the central reservation to avoid the oncoming traffic.

So long as the AI learns from it, it is not bad or wrong or catastrophic.  It is just learning to drive.

Those other companies who rely on high resolution mapping and geofenced areas had better take note. Because this is moving far faster than the last 6 months would have led us to believe.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2021, 09:39:19 PM »
—- Tesla FSD Beta version 9
Patient and safe human drivers are relatively rare.  Here FSD acts like one.
Quote
After ~9mon of beta testing, it's amazing to see how much progress has been made. #FSDBeta9 struggles to get on highway but correct itself by changing route safety. FSD is ostensibly indistinguishable from human driving
Full video: youtu.be/HMn2VUui-LU
➡️ https://twitter.com/frenchieeap/status/1415698804028936196
[1 min clip at the Twitter link.]

Elon Musk
FSD beta 9 is using the pure vision production code for highway driving. Beta 10 hopefully (Beta 11 definitely) will use one stack to rule them all – city streets, highway & complex parking lots.


Quote
< Changed my cars name [to “Two Weeks”] just for you @elonmusk

Elon Musk
Haha, FSD 9 beta is shipping soon, I swear!
 
Generalized self-driving is a hard problem, as it requires solving a large part of real-world AI. Didn’t expect it to be so hard, but the difficulty is obvious in retrospect.
Nothing has more degrees of freedom than reality.

7/3/21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1411280212470366213

< For those who don’t speak statistics:
“Degrees of freedom” are the count of how many total variables make up a complex analysis. 

—-
Quote
Looks to me that Tesla Vision is quite powerful. Rendering 26 vehicles! …
https://twitter.com/tesla_raj/status/1413919739265503233
[ ⬇️ Image below.]
I grabbed this picture during my drive posted here: youtu.be/Y1LCOShqyNo
7/11/21  https://twitter.com/tesla_raj/status/1414257098909577222
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vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2021, 11:44:48 PM »
Argo AI, Ford and Lyft to launch self-driving ride-hail service in Miami and Austin
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/21/ford-and-argo-ai-to-launch-self-driving-cars-with-lyft-by-end-of-year.html
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/argo-ai-ford-lyft-launch-self-driving-ride-hail-service-miami-austin-2021-07-21/

AUSTIN — Self-driving startup Argo AI, carmaker Ford Motor Co and ride-hail company Lyft Inc on Wednesday said they partnered to offer robotaxi trips to Lyft customers in Miami and Austin.

The service is expected to launch in Miami later this year and in Austin next year with a safety driver inside the Ford Escape hybrid vehicles. Over the next five years, the companies want to deploy at least 1,000 robotaxis in multiple cities.

The first truly driverless cars are expected to launch in 2023, said Jody Kelman, head of Lyft's autonomous team.

The partnership marks the first large-scale U.S. collaboration between a carmaker, a self-driving developer and a ride-hailing company. The companies hope to gain valuable insights on how to turn robotaxis into a commercially viable business - a challenge no company has yet answered.

As part of the agreement, Argo AI, which is backed by Ford and Volkswagen AG, will receive anonomized data on passenger trips and safety incidents. That will allow Argo to optimize its technology and routing to avoid unsafe streets, Argo CEO Bryan Salesky said in a blog post

In exchange, Lyft will receive a 2.5% stake in the company. At Argo's most recent valuation of $7.5 billion, that equity slice would be worth $187.5 million. Argo, which is currently testing autonomous vehicles in several U.S. cities, in June said it plans to list publicly within the next year.

Ford will fuel, service and clean the robotaxi fleets under the partnership.

In traditional ride-hailing services, human drivers make up an estimated 80% of the total per mile cost, according to research firm Frost & Sullivan, underscoring the companies' interest in a driverless future. But self-driving vehicles need to recoup their expensive development costs and still need to be managed and maintained.

Ford and Argo AI have been testing fleets nationwide in Austin; Detroit; Miami; Palo Alto, California; Pittsburgh; and Washington, D.C.
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2021, 12:53:26 AM »
It may be the first alliance, but when Tesla gets the ride hailing software in production it will be the first single company which manufactures cars, delivers self driving software and has a ride hailing business.

2023?  That is a Loooong time in a very fast moving business.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2021, 08:26:44 PM »
Velodyne Lidar CEO resigns in latest internal drama
Quote
Velodyne sensors had been used by Ford in its autonomous vehicle testing. The intention was that those would be the go-to sensor for its autonomous vehicles once they were deployed commercially.

Veoneer had even announced in 2019 that it was leveraging Velodyne's technology for a contract to supply the sensor to Ford (and by extension its autonomous vehicle technology supplier Argo AI). But Veoneer reported in February that it had lost its contract. …
https://techcrunch.com/2021/07/19/velodyne-lidar-ceo-resigns-in-latest-internal-drama/

Quote
When Tesla removed radar, FSD Beta got a lot smoother.
So how exactly is adding LIDAR going to help? The software has no problem with figuring out distance.
https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1417169888406216725
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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2021, 10:35:41 PM »
Trucks Move Past Cars on the Road to Autonomy
https://www.wired.com/story/trucks-move-past-cars-road-autonomy/amp

In 2016, three veterans of the still young autonomous vehicle industry formed Aurora, a startup focused on developing self-driving cars. Partnerships followed with major automakers, including Hyundai and Volkswagen. CEO Chris Urmson said at the time that the link-ups would help the company bring “mobility as a service” to urban areas—Uber-like rides without a human behind the wheel.

But by late 2019, Aurora’s emphasis had shifted. It said self-driving trucks, not cars, would be quicker to hit public roads en masse. Its executives, who had steadfastly refused to provide a timeline for their self-driving-car software, now say trucks equipped with its “Aurora Driver” will hit the roads in 2023 or 2024, with ride-hail vehicles following a year or two later. This month, the company announced it would go public via a reverse merger, raising $2 billion in the process. “We have a team that really understands how hard this problem is,” says Urmson.

The move points to a growing consensus in the industry: If self-driving vehicles are going to happen, trucks will likely arrive before cars.

For evidence, follow the money. Investors have poured $11 billion into autonomous truck startups in the past two and a half years, more than $5 billion of that in the first five months of this year alone, according to the data and research company PitchBook. Aurora last week announced plans to go public, joining a convoy of other autonomous truck startups: Embark Trucks in June and the companies Plus andTuSimple in the spring. Competitors Waymo—a Google sister company—and Locomotion are reportedly eyeing similar moves.

Traditional truck makers and carriers are signing deals with tech companies, signaling optimism in the self-driving future. And the pandemic showed just how vital trucking and logistics are to the economy. ... “This is a snowball effect, and building steadily,” says Don Burnette, cofounder and CEO of Kodiak Robotics, another self-driving truck startup, which recently announced investments from BMW i Ventures and tire maker Bridgestone.

Another reason autonomous trucks may arrive before cars: For now, they’re only tackling the easy parts of self-driving, and they're skipping some of the hardest. The makers of self-driving trucks are focusing on highways, which are generally wide and smooth, with steady traffic flow. They anticipate staging drivers at exits, to handle the more challenging local streets. But that’s precisely where robotaxis will be most in demand. They’ll have to contend with less predictable characters, like people on foot, bike, and scooter. Building software to predict the movements of that group is a harder job.

The American Trucking Association says shippers paid $791 billion to move goods by truck in 2019; by contrast, Aurora estimates the annual market for ride-hail vehicles at $35 billion. Tech developers reason that if they lower the cost of shipping, they can keep a cut of the savings. “There's clearly a need for robotaxis in dense cities, but outside dense cities, where everyone has their own car, you need to create demand,” says Asad Hussain, who analyzes mobility companies at PitchBook.

The makers of self-driving trucks say their technology will save shippers money. Embark says its self-driving technology, which it hopes to sell to fleet operators as a subscription, will save 80 cents per mile, cutting costs compared to human-driven trucks in half. Robots, after all, don’t need to be paid and don’t need rest breaks. They won’t quit, sparing carriers labor shortages. And robots don’t have a union. Human drivers might continue to handle short-haul trucking jobs, the companies say, a more localized job that will allow them to spend more time at home rather than on the road.

And yet, there’s still not a true driverless truck—and may never be. Self-driving trucks present a tantalizing safety opportunity—truck driving is one of the most deadly jobs in the US, according to the Labor Department—but an 80,000-pound missile moving at 70 mph can cause a lot of damage. Because self-driving trucks are so heavy and go faster than cars on city streets, they need to be able to see farther down the road—no small technical feat. So far, companies have run limited demonstrations and pilots of their technology, but all have had safety drivers in the cab.
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #82 on: July 26, 2021, 08:41:15 PM »
Clearly now V9 is out for Tesla FSD beta, the incremental updates are back on the schedule.

V9.1 coming within a week.

Quote
Zack
@BLKMDL3
·
Jul 25, 2021
Thank you @arctechinc for giving me a ride in FSD beta V9! Holy crap it’s so good. What a massive improvement over 8.2. Great job @Tesla AP team! @elonmusk
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
Several improvements coming via V9.1 on Friday at midnight
8:31 AM · Jul 25, 2021

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fsd-beta-9-update-release-date-elon-musk/
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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #83 on: July 28, 2021, 12:28:24 AM »
ARK Estimates That Autonomous Driving Could Expand The Ride-Hail Market To An $11–12 Trillion Opportunity
Tasha Keeney
Quote
Takeaway:
ARK previously estimated that autonomous ride-hail could expand the ride-hailing market from $150 billion today to $6–7 trillion by 2030. Based on our most recent research on consumers’ perceived value of time, we now estimate the total addressable opportunity to be $11–12 trillion.

Background:
ARK estimates that autonomous driving could reduce the cost of ride-hail significantly, expanding the addressable market. Today, the average price of an Uber is $2 per mile, while Didi is $0.50-$.70 per mile. We estimate that autonomous ride-hail vehicles will have higher utilization rates than human-driven cars, as well as lower labor and insurance costs. At scale, ARK estimates that an autonomous taxi platform could price rides profitably at 25 cents per mile.[1] As shown below, autonomous rides could be cheaper than driving a personal car and cost competitive with public transit.  ...
https://medium.com/@TashaKeeney/ark-estimates-that-autonomous-driving-could-expand-the-ride-hail-market-to-an-11-12-trillion-6dba75d6bb49

—- Human driver
Quote
not on autopilot #TeslaCrashFootage
https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1420041258446295042
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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2021, 04:36:09 PM »
Norway
Tesla Autopilot prevents drunk driver from making a fatal mistake
August 1, 2021
Quote
Current US statistics state that about 10,000 people die every year due to drunk driving. That’s roughly one fatality from a drunk driving-related crash every 52 minutes. Even in Norway, where roads are significantly safer, a report from the International Transport Forum in 2019 indicated that 8% of the country’s fatal crashes involved a drunk driver. With these numbers in mind, it is no surprise that companies like Tesla are creating software that allows vehicles to operate safely on the road, even if their human drivers are incapacitated.

Such an incident happened recently in Norway. As explained by the Eastern Police District on its official Twitter account, a 24-year-old Tesla owner ended up passing out while driving his Model S. Fortunately for the driver, the vehicle’s Autopilot system was activated, which allowed the Model S to stay in its lane without causing trouble to other drivers.

Upon detecting that its driver was unresponsive, the vehicle eventually came to a stop and engaged its hazards. The man was later attended to by emergency services. No one was injured in the incident. …
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-drunk-driver-norway/

Quote
Tesla owner in Norway suffers unconsciousness while driving, Tesla autopilot detects it, slows, comes to a stop so EMS can help @elonmusk @Tesla ❤️‍🩹🚑
7/31/21. ➡️ https://twitter.com/austinteslaclub/status/1421532778097782784
2 min vid (Norwegian)

Austin Tesla Club
Here is the police tweet from yesterday related to this incident, explaining accurate information @Tesla @elonmusk 😉 @politietost thank you man was drunk, and was assisted by police!
7/31/21, 3:17 PM. https://twitter.com/austinteslaclub/status/1421550536847990791

Elon Musk
Reason we hustled so much to get Autopilot V1 out was that someone driving non-Autopilot Tesla fell asleep, crashed & killed cyclist (Tesla driver was uninjured).
Driver nonetheless sued us saying new car smell made him fall asleep (sigh). Judge didn’t agree.

 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1421573785988309002


—- Tesla FSD Beta
Quote
< I'm truly blown away. Doing a bunch of driving today on #FSDBeta v9.1 and almost no interventions.
@elonmusk this is extremely impressive as someone who has used the early access Beta FSD since v1 (for public use) back in Oct 2020.
I'm assuming next release is 9.2 in 2 weeks?
 
Elon Musk
We are doing releases every 2 weeks on Friday at midnight California time
7/31/21. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1421593704213667855
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vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2021, 12:02:19 AM »
China Targets the Robotaxi Industry
https://spectrum.ieee.org/china-robotaxi-industry

Friendly regulatory environment bolsters efforts by 70 companies, including Baidu, Alibaba

Chinese tech giant Baidu opened a 2.5-acre test track and operations base for autonomous vehicles last week, its third such site in the country and its latest move to dominate the "robotaxi" industry.

China's self-driving vehicle market is moving faster than that of the United States thanks to government regulatory support. In the past year, Baidu and AV competitor AutoX, backed by e-commerce giant Alibaba, have announced a series of steps in the race toward what promises to be a massive market.

Swiss bank UBS estimates that by 2030, the global robotaxi market will be worth at least $2 trillion annually, with robotaxi fleet purchases accounting for 12% of all new cars sold.

In April last year, Baidu began offering free robotaxi trips in Changsha within a pre-defined area, followed by Cangzhou and Beijing. Then, in December, AutoX launched a trial of driverless robotaxis in the southern city of Shenzhen and opened that service to the public in January this year. In May, Baidu started commercial robotaxi service within a 1.2 square-mile zone in western Beijing and last month opened a pilot program to the public covering a 60-square-mile district in the southern city of Guangzhou.

The Shanghai operations center will serve as a base for Baidu's Apollo brand robotaxis, robobuses and other types of autonomous vehicles in the region. The base will collect data and calibrate connected vehicles and act as a remote control center.

"Our base will serve as an intelligent connectivity ecosystem and expand to over 200 operating vehicles to become the largest autonomous driving fleet in East China," said a Baidu spokesperson.

AutoX opened a robotaxi operations center in Shanghai last year, and has been offering limited robotaxi service to the public in Shanghai for more than a year. The company's robotaxi service in Shenzhen, meanwhile, operates without a safety driver or operator in the car. "This is still the only fully driverless RoboTaxi operation in China until today," said Jewel Z. Li, AutoX's chief operating officer.

Since Beijing approved self-driving car tests on designated public roads more than three years ago, dozens of cities have awarded pilot program permits to more than 70 companies.

Chinese regulators began allowing limited robotaxi trials June 2019 and this January, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology released a draft policy permitting AV testing on highways with a goal of opening the robotaxi market by 2025. ...
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2021, 07:55:35 PM »
—- VIDEO: Tesla FSD Beta: LA to SF with no human assistance
Quote
Pure Vision Autopilot + FSD Beta 9.1 Drives from Los Angeles to San Francisco with 0 disengagements
There was 1 disengagement after getting to SF but it may or may not have been needed

Slower on YouTube:
youtu.be/-CJTjn43SL4
8/12/21  https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1425677332166025221
2 min timelapse at the Twitter link, with Karpathy audio. “Waymo approach” (pre-drawn HD maps, many expensive sensors) versus the Tesla approach (a few inexpensive cameras, low-def maps, and strong AI).  The Tesla approach best enables scaling to millions of cars.
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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2021, 08:21:21 PM »
I say this all the time but it is worth repeating.

Tesla is teaching the AI to become a driver.

All the others are teaching the AI to react in a limited way from a pre provisioned set of data.

The end game for Tesla will be an AI which can drive their cars anywhere with the same set of data that humans have.

I quite happily admit I was incorrect in assuming that additional input from LIDAR would be of benefit.  Thinking of it as teaching the AI to drive, consider giving a learner driver 15 mirrors with differing focal lengths.  The learner driver would be overwhelmed and make the wrong decision more often than the right one.  We limit information to the driver and supplement the decision process with knowledge and experience.

The others are overwhelming their AI with data and then limiting the ability to act in order to allow it to function.

Now here comes the killer part.  Once the Tesla AI has learned to drive and becomes competent, that driver will then be able to take on more data inputs and be able to deal with it.  Because it will already know "bridge" from the video input (eyes) and when radar tells it the "bridge" is in the road it will ignore it.  Hence more input without phantom braking.

The rest?  Their AI will continue to be overwhelmed with data and restricted in possible actions.

The winner of that race is a foregone conclusion.  It is just the date which is in doubt.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2021, 12:22:53 AM »


Autonomous tech developer Plus has recently completed a real-world demonstration of its Level 4 autonomous truck technology on a traffic-filled highway. The company tested the truck without a driver behind the wheel, and also without any other remote operator who could take control of the truck if needed. The test took place on the Wufengshan highway in the business hub of the Yangtze Delta region, with Plus being the first company to be granted a special permit to test Level 4 vehicles in the country.

https://plus.ai/press-release/Plus-Completes-Driverless-Level-4-Semi-Truck-Highway-Demonstration.html

-------------------------------------------------------

... as long as the road is straight and all the cars driving next to your truck are owned by your company   ;)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 12:46:12 AM by vox_mundi »
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #89 on: August 15, 2021, 02:50:15 AM »
Nation's Largest Fleet of Autonomous Vehicles Launches In Colorado
https://www.9news.com/mobile/article/life/automotive/schools-of-mines-electric-vehicles/73-63170e33-7af0-4e83-839b-6ddbf6e277c6

The nation’s largest fleet of low-speed, autonomous electric shuttles is being deployed in Colorado.

The first of three locations launched Tuesday at Colorado School of Mines with nine driverless, zero-emission EZ10 shuttles. Autonomous Vehicles Colorado (AvCo) will next launch shuttles in Greenwood Village and Colorado Springs over the course of the next year.

The shuttles will connect Colorado School of Mines’ central campus, athletics complex, student housing and downtown Golden. AvCo said the shuttles will safely navigate traffic using advanced sensors and technology

The shuttle will operate along three fixed routes with designated shuttle stops and will arrive every 5 to 10 minutes along the routes. The shuttles are ADA accessible and can each hold six seated passengers.

There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #90 on: August 15, 2021, 09:04:10 PM »
—- Tesla FSD updates
Quote
Elon Musk
Improvements in [FSD Version] 9.2:
⬇️ Textpic below.

< Got a revised estimate on The Button release?
Elon Musk
Beta 10 or maybe 10.1. Going to pure vision set us back initially. Vision plus (coarse) radar had us trapped in a local maximum, like a level cap.

Pure vision requires fairly advanced real-world AI, but that’s how our whole road system is designed to work: NN’s with vision.
8/15/21  https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1426934048136499209

—-
Sandy Munro thinks Tesla “will surprise people” with FSD accomplishments by the end of this year.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2406.msg319129.html#msg319129
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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2021, 05:54:10 PM »
Self driving systems comparison.

Quote
Tesla Full Self-Driving Beta Compared To Mercedes Drive Pilot

https://insideevs.com/news/526925/tesla-fsd-vs-mercedes-drivepilot/
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2021, 08:05:58 PM »
I suppose if you can't beat the competition, you can just get your tame politician out of your pocket and try to hold them up.

Quote
Tesla’s claims about Autopilot and Full Self-Driving are under scrutiny as senators pressure FTC

https://electrek.co/2021/08/18/tesla-claims-autopilot-full-self-driving-are-under-scrutiny-senators-pressure-ftc/

Tesla's extremely rapid progress is based on three pillars.  Extreme AI Coding.  Ultra capable hardware to run that AI.  A truly massive database of real world driving conditions full of vital data to train the AI.

Take any pillar away and it will slow them down dramatically.  It seems that someone wants to take away the data pillar.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2021, 01:03:19 AM »
Sandy Munro checks out Ford's BlueCruise hands-free driver assist technology.

12 minutes      

Hands-free system provides Lane-keeping and Traffic-Aware Cruise Control, on limited-access highways.  Demands hands on wheel (visual alert only) for significant highway curves, even on roads it knows. Lane changes must be performed manually, and navigation is not incorporated.  Can manually adjust car’s position in the lane without deactivating the system.

Few tidbits from the Mach E owner manual
https://twitter.com/dirtytesla/status/1429836426481479682
⬇️ Text image below.  Click to embiggen.
“System does not detect pedestrians or objects in the road. System may not detect stationary or slow-moving vehicles.
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NeilT

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #94 on: August 26, 2021, 03:42:48 PM »
So you can take your hands off the wheel but you are accountable if it screws up and crashes...

My take? The Tesla approach is safer, the driver is never told the vehicle is responsible for driving.

Would you trust a system which says you can let it drive but the fine print says something else?

Self driving is not a TV ad for a mobile phone contract.  Terms and conditions need to be up front, not buried.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2021, 05:36:08 PM »
Toyota halts all self-driving e-Palette vehicles after Olympic village accident
Quote
Toyota Motor said on Friday it had suspended all self-driving e-Palette transportation pods at the Tokyo Paralympic Games village, a day after one of the vehicles collided with and injured a visually impaired pedestrian.

The vehicle had stopped at a T junction and was about to turn under manual control of the operator, who was using the vehicle's joystick control, when the vehicle hit the athlete going at around 1 or 2 kilometres an hour, Toyoda said. He said Paralympic officials had told him that the athlete, who remained conscious, was taken to the athlete village medical centre for treatment and was able to walk back to their residence. …

Toyoda said the accident showed the difficulty for the self-driving vehicle to operate in the special circumstances of the village during the Paralympics with people there who are visually impaired or have other disabilities.

“It shows that autonomous vehicles are not yet realistic for normal roads,” he said. …
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-halts-all-self-driving-e-pallete-vehicles-after-olympic-village-accident-2021-08-27/
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vox_mundi

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2021, 10:32:42 PM »


As far as autonomous cars are concerned, there's suburban Arizona difficulty, San Francisco difficulty, and then Asia rush hour difficulty. This is a 9:38 long video that is actually worth watching in its entirety because it's a fully autonomous car from AutoX driving through a Shenzhen urban village. Don't miss the astonished pedestrians, the near-miss with a wandering dog, and the comically one-sided human-vehicle interaction on a single lane road.

The AutoX Gen5 system has 50 sensors in total, as well as a vehicle control unit of 2200 TOPS computing power. There are 28 cameras capturing a total of 220 million pixels per second, six high-resolution LiDAR offering 15 million points per second, and 4D RADAR with 0.9-degree resolution encompassing a 360-degree view around the vehicle. Using cameras and LiDAR fusion perception blind spot modules, the Gen5 system covers the entire RoboTaxi body with zero blind spots.
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #97 on: August 28, 2021, 08:58:48 PM »
Impressive display of obstacle avoidance!  But it’s clear from how scooters and pedestrians were passing it at high speed that the AutoX was moving very slowly… and as you note, it rarely gives way to oncoming vehicles, forcing them up onto the sidewalk, and pausing so long with that black car at 5:30, rather than trying to squeeze past or re-route, that they had to edit the video.

So, disabled passengers with no other transport option might like it, but most folks will feel it’s too slow and is a hindrance to traffic, more than a solution, in its current state.  Despite all those sensors and computing power, it needs more speed and an additional level of AI on top of its current skills to be useful.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2021, 12:41:27 AM »
—- Tesla FSD Beta
Quote
Imagine that instead of dropping someone off at the airport, your car could drop them off for you.

Here’s Tesla pre-release FSD Beta 9.2 driving from San Francisco to SFO airport, with one disengagement.

$TSLA remains hilariously undervalued. 
8/30/21, 12:43 PM. ➡️ https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1432383365697597444
2-min time lapse at the link.

Elon Musk
Beta 10 coming soon! 

 
===
Double Standard for Tesla’s Autopilot versus Legacy Automaker ADAS terminology
Quote
Nissan has ProPILOT, a hands-on driver-assist system. GM has CoPilot. And Mercedes has Drive Pilot, a supposedly level 3 automated driving system. (Regarding the “Intelligent Drive Autopilot” screenshot above, that is apparently from a 2013 ad.) All of these have the same word, pilot, in them.

The argument against Tesla is that customers will get complacent or trust the car too much and easily get distracted. They will forget to pay attention. And, yes, some have done this and it has resulted in accidents. So have drivers misusing cruise control, or just automobiles in general, and it has surely happened with drivers using these other ADAS.

The idea that Tesla should change the name of Autopilot while other automakers get to use some form of that themselves is clearly a double standard. All of these driver assist systems require the driver to still be in control in some fashion or another. I think that instead of blaming Tesla for the name of its ADAS, critics should be focused on more important matters. …
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/29/double-standard-for-teslas-autopilot-versus-legacy-automaker-adas-terminology/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Transport and self driving vehicles
« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2021, 09:29:39 PM »
What autonomous transportation should be:
Quote
Whole Mars Catalog
Made a reservation on OpenTable.

My iPhone parsed the confirmation email automatically and added it to my calendar. So when I got in my Tesla, it started navigating to the restaurant automatically

All I need to do was pull the gear shifter and FSD took us there
 
Elon Musk
You don’t even need to touch the shifter in new S. Auto detect direction will come as an optional setting to all cars with FSD.
7/18/21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1416951898049896450

—-
Quote
< Elon with the advancement of AI and such a large fleet collecting data, will Tesla ever overtake Waze by “auto” collecting data such as construction zones or potholes in bad roads and automatically route away from those roads via self driving without the owner even knowing?
 
Elon Musk
Probably
8/6/21 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423542371774472197

—-
Sandy's Rant: Tesla AI Day + NHTSA & Congress - YouTube
➡️https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8hcB1Z6-A7Q
“It’s crap!” No other car company has the life-saving automotive tech to compete with China, but NHTSA and Congress seem determined to slow down the company that does: Tesla. 
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.