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vox_mundi

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2022, 03:49:33 AM »
Banks Collapsed In 2008 – and Our Food System Is About to Do the Same
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/19/banks-collapsed-in-2008-food-system-same-producers-regulators

For the past few years, scientists have been frantically sounding an alarm that governments refuse to hear: the global food system is beginning to look like the global financial system in the run-up to 2008.

While financial collapse would have been devastating to human welfare, food system collapse doesn’t bear thinking about. Yet the evidence that something is going badly wrong has been escalating rapidly. The current surge in food prices looks like the latest sign of systemic instability.

Many people assume that the food crisis was caused by a combination of the pandemic and the invasion of Ukraine. While these are important factors, they aggravate an underlying problem. For years, it looked as if hunger was heading for extinction. The number of undernourished people fell from 811 million in 2005 to 607 million in 2014. But in 2015, the trend began to turn. Hunger has been rising ever since: to 650 million in 2019, and back to 811 million in 2020. This year is likely to be much worse.

Now brace yourself for the really bad news: this has happened at a time of great abundance. Global food production has been rising steadily for more than half a century, comfortably beating population growth. Last year, the global wheat harvest was bigger than ever. Astoundingly, the number of undernourished people began to rise just as world food prices began to fall. In 2014, when fewer people were hungry than at any time since, the global food price index stood at 115 points. In 2015, it fell to 93, and remained below 100 until 2021.

Only in the past two years has it surged. The rise in food prices is now a major driver of inflation, which reached 9% in the UK last month. Food is becoming unaffordable even to many people in rich nations. The impact in poorer countries is much worse.

So what has been going on? Well, global food, like global finance, is a complex system, that develops spontaneously from billions of interactions. Complex systems have counterintuitive properties. They are resilient under certain conditions, as their self-organising properties stabilise them. But as stress escalates, these same properties start transmitting shocks through the network. Beyond a certain point, a small disturbance can tip the entire system over its critical threshold, whereupon it collapses, suddenly and unstoppably.

We now know enough about systems to predict whether they might be resilient or fragile. Scientists represent complex systems as a mesh of nodes and links. The nodes are like the knots in an old-fashioned net; the links are the strings that connect them. In the food system, the nodes include the corporations trading grain, seed and farm chemicals, the major exporters and importers and the ports through which food passes. The links are their commercial and institutional relationships.

If the nodes behave in a variety of ways, and their links to each other are weak, the system is likely to be resilient. If certain nodes become dominant, start to behave in similar ways and are strongly connected, the system is likely to be fragile. In the approach to the 2008 crisis, the big banks developed similar strategies and similar ways of managing risk, as they pursued the same sources of profit. They became strongly linked to each other in ways that regulators scarcely understood. When Lehman Brothers failed, it threatened to pull everyone down.

So here’s what sends cold fear through those who study the global food system. In recent years, just as in finance during the 2000s, key nodes in the food system have swollen, their links have become stronger, business strategies have converged and synchronised, and the features that might impede systemic collapse (“redundancy”, “modularity”, “circuit breakers” and “backup systems”) have been stripped away, exposing the system to “globally contagious” shocks.

On one estimate, just four corporations control 90% of the global grain trade. The same corporations have been buying into seed, chemicals, processing, packing, distribution and retail. In the course of 18 years, the number of trade connections between the exporters and importers of wheat and rice doubled. Nations are now polarising into super-importers and super-exporters. Much of this trade passes through vulnerable chokepoints, such as the Turkish Straits (now obstructed by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine), the Suez and Panama canals and the Straits of Hormuz, Bab-el-Mandeb and Malacca.

One of the fastest cultural shifts in human history is the convergence towards a “Global Standard Diet”. While our food has become locally more diverse, globally it has become less diverse. Just four crops – wheat, rice, maize and soy – account for almost 60% of the calories grown by farmers. Their production is now highly concentrated in a handful of nations, including Russia and Ukraine. The Global Standard Diet is grown by the Global Standard Farm, supplied by the same corporations with the same packages of seed, chemicals and machinery, and vulnerable to the same environmental shocks.

The food industry is becoming tightly coupled to the financial sector, increasing what scientists call the “network density” of the system, making it more susceptible to cascading failure. Around the world, trade barriers have come down and roads and ports upgraded, streamlining the global network. You might imagine that this smooth system would enhance food security. But it has allowed companies to shed the costs of warehousing and inventories, switching from stocks to flows. Mostly, this just-in-time strategy works. But if deliveries are interrupted or there’s a rapid surge in demand, shelves can suddenly empty.

A paper in Nature Sustainability reports that in the food system, “shock frequency has increased through time on land and sea at a global scale”. In researching my book Regenesis, I came to realise that it’s this escalating series of contagious shocks, exacerbated by financial speculation, that has been driving global hunger.

Now the global food system must survive not only its internal frailties, but also environmental and political disruptions that might interact with each other. To give a current example, in mid-April, the Indian government suggested that it could make up the shortfall in global food exports caused by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Just a month later, it banned exports of wheat, after crops shrivelled in a devastating heatwave.

We urgently need to diversify global food production, both geographically and in terms of crops and farming techniques. We need to break the grip of massive corporations and financial speculators. We need to create backup systems, producing food by entirely different means. We need to introduce spare capacity into a system threatened by its own efficiencies.

If so many can go hungry at a time of unprecedented bounty, the consequences of the major crop failure that environmental breakdown could cause defy imagination. The system has to change.

-------------------------------------------

Resilience and reactivity of global food security
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1507366112


https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/24796/1/GFS_Tipping%20Points_Main%20Report.pdf

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2017RG000591

Food production shocks across land and sea
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-018-0210-1
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vox_mundi

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2022, 09:19:02 PM »
Global Report on Food Crises: Acute Food Insecurity Hits New Highs
https://www.fao.org/newsroom/detail/global-report-on-food-crises-acute-food-insecurity-hits-new-highs/en

... The document reveals that around 193 million people in 53 countries or territories experienced acute food insecurity at crisis or worse levels (IPC/CH Phase 3-5) in 2021. This represents an increase of nearly 40 million people compared with the already record numbers of 2020. Of these, over half a million people (570 000) in Ethiopia, southern Madagascar, South Sudan and Yemen were classified in the most severe phase of acute food insecurity Catastrophe (IPC/CH Phase 5) and required urgent action to avert widespread collapse of livelihoods, starvation and death.

When looking at the same 39 countries or territories featured in all editions of the report, the number of people facing crisis or worse (IPC/CH Phase 3 or above) nearly doubled between 2016 and 2021, with unabated rises each year since 2018.

The key drivers behind rising acute food insecurity in 2021 were:

- conflict (main driver pushing 139 million people in 24 countries/territories into acute food insecurity, up from around 99 million in 23 countries/territories in in 2020);

- weather extremes (over 23 million people in 8 countries/territories, up from 15.7 million in 15 countries/territories);

- economic shocks - (over 30 million people in 21 countries/territories, down from over 40 million people in 17 countries/territories in 2020 mainly due to the fallout from the COVID-19 pandemic).



Report: http://www.fightfoodcrises.net/fileadmin/user_upload/fightfoodcrises/doc/resources/GRFC_2022_FINAl_REPORT.pdf

The Economist just devoted its entire magazine to the topic, with a chilling cover photo you have to observe closely to notice what’s not quite right.



The Coming Food Catastrophe
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/05/19/the-coming-food-catastrophe

War is tipping a fragile world towards mass hunger. Fixing that is everyone’s business

By invading ukraine, Vladimir Putin will destroy the lives of people far from the battlefield—and on a scale even he may regret. The war is battering a global food system weakened by covid-19, climate change and an energy shock. Ukraine’s exports of grain and oilseeds have mostly stopped and Russia’s are threatened. Together, the two countries supply 12% of traded calories. Wheat prices, up 53% since the start of the year, jumped a further 6% on May 16th, after India said it would suspend exports because of an alarming heatwave.

The widely accepted idea of a cost-of-living crisis does not begin to capture the gravity of what may lie ahead. António Guterres, the un secretary general, warned on May 18th that the coming months threaten “the spectre of a global food shortage” that could last for years. The high cost of staple foods has already raised the number of people who cannot be sure of getting enough to eat by 440m, to 1.6bn. Nearly 250m are on the brink of famine. ...



Even Putin’s top aides are expecting “global hunger” by the end of the year, according to economist Elina Ribakova of the Institute of International Finance, citing Moscow-based Kommersant news.

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5357236

https://twitter.com/elinaribakova/status/1527274343616589824



There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

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trm1958

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2022, 04:39:52 AM »
Zero Hunger: How is Russia’s Invasion Trapping Africa Deeper in the ‘Vicious Cycle of Famine’?
Published 16 hours ago on May 29, 2022By Auliya Febriyanti
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/05/29/zero-hunger-how-is-russias-invasion-trapping-africa-deeper-in-the-vicious-cycle-of-famine/

vox_mundi

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2022, 10:22:00 AM »
Ghana and Uganda Ban Grain and Food Exports
https://m.dw.com/en/ghana-and-uganda-ban-grain-and-food-exports/a-61955785

Global food protectionism is now in full swing. After India, major EU food exporting nations such as Hungary have halted the export of certain crops. Many African countries are also banning the export of produce.

Ghana and Uganda are among several African countries banning the export of grains and other farm produce, with the latter imposing high taxes to prevent food exports to neighboring countries.

... Around Africa, farmers are grappling with high costs of farm inputs this year, with many governments attributing the cost to the Ukraine war.

... A recent government directive banning the export of grains translates into abject poverty for Wangarindo. He had hoped that grain shortages on the international market would be a boost to his income since he would sell his produce of corn and soybeans at a higher price.

"If the government can't control the price of farm inputs like fertilizers, how does it expect us to stay in business by lowering the cost of our produce?" he mused.

-------------------------------------------

Russia Blocks Ships Carrying Grain Exports
https://m.dw.com/en/ukraine-war-russia-blocks-ships-carrying-grain-exports/a-61165985

Up to 300 ships have been stopped by Russian forces from departing the Black Sea, leaving one of the key global trade routes for grain virtually blocked. The fertile region is known as "the world's breadbasket."

Wheat exports from Ukraine and Russia, which make up a vital part of the world's food supply are still being blocked by Russia from leaving the Black Sea, Germany's largest agricultural trader BayWa said this week.

... Curbs on wheat and fertilizer exports are presumed to be high on Moscow's list, which could have further consequences for the world's food supply and food price inflation.

... Russia is weaponizing food supplies in its war against Ukraine. "There is no question that food is being used as a weapon of war in many different ways," says World Food Program (WFP) chief David Beasley.

Just days later at a UN Security Council meeting on May 19, Beasley warned: "Failure to open the ports in the Odesa region is a declaration of war on global food security and will result in famines, destabilization and mass migration around the world."

... Former Russian president and senior security official Dmitry Medvedev called food exports a "quiet weapon" in the fight against Western sanctions, indirectly confirming Beasley's statements. "Many countries depend on our supplies for their food security," Medvedev wrote on his Telegram channel on April 1. "It turns out that our food is our quiet weapon," he wrote. "Quiet but ominous."
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

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The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2022, 08:19:09 PM »
Finally a sign that food prices may be easing a little.  Commodity prices are falling today, with wheat down 6%.

https://www.cnbc.com/agriculture/

The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2022, 04:48:30 PM »
To put things in perspective, I compiled price changes for select commodities over different time periods, corresponding to the 2022 before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the price spike after the invasion, and the change in price since.  I also included the one year total change.

Commodity    2022 pre-    Russian    After      1 Year
                    invasion       Spike      Spike      Change

Oil                 +18%          +37%     - 4%       +71%
Wheat            + 3%          +79%     -27%       +51%
Rice               + 2%           + 7%     + 8%       +29%
Corn              +10%          +15%     - 2%        + 7%
Soybeans       +21%          + 6%      - 1%        + 7%

Wheat was the only commodity directly affected by the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  Other prices rose due to the rise costs of transportation, due to the crude oil rise.  Rice has rise due to the Indian heat wave.  Corn and soybeans have largely followed inflation, although they each fluctuation with every planting or weather report.

vox_mundi

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2022, 07:01:13 AM »
Investors Cash In On Food Commodities as the Poor Go Hungry
https://m.dw.com/en/investors-cash-in-on-food-commodities-as-the-poor-go-hungry/a-62007084

Rising consumer prices are aggravating food shortages around the globe, and investors looking to make a buck off food commodities could be making matters worse.

... "In Uganda, wheat and fuel prices have skyrocketed, making everyday goods like bread almost unaffordable to an ordinary citizen," Anna Slattery, external affairs manager at The Hunger Project, a nonprofit that works to end world hunger, told DW.

"In Malawi, our teams are reporting that the prices of maize grain, soybeans and cooking oil have increased significantly, over 50% in some places. The increase in prices is making it difficult for people to access these vital food items."

... After the war broke out in February, commodity-linked "exchange-traded funds (ETFs)," a type of investment fund open to the public, saw a huge uptick in activity: By April, investors had pumped $1.2 billion (€1.12 billion) into two major agricultural ETFs, compared to just $197 million for the whole of 2021, Lighthouse Reports, an investigative journalism NGO, found out.

... A recent study by the Center for Development Research (ZEF) at the University of Bonn found that the share of speculators in hard wheat and maize had risen with the price of the commodities, and that it had gone up sharply since the end of 2020. The researchers also found that the volatility of futures prices had increased significantly since the end of 2021, a sign of market irregularities that can lead to excessive speculation.

The ZEF report warned that more speculation could see prices decoupling from fundamentals, like supply and demand for example. It pointed to similar trends leading up to the global food crisis that emerged in 2008.

In April, analysts at investment bank JPMorgan Chase suggested that commodities prices could surge as much as 40% as traders pile in, creating an attractive return for investors.

"The more uncertainty in the market, the more demand for risk trading exists," Lukas Kornher, economist and ZEF project manager, told DW. "That is why we see the influx of speculative traders in the market."

... The current price inflation and record-high prices at the commodities futures markets signal an expected scarcity within a couple of months, according to Kornher, who said the world was likely "on its way" to a food crisis.

The Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO)'s food price index was up 36% in April compared with the same month a year before, after hitting an all-time high in March. The World Bank's Agricultural Price Index also hit an all-time nominal high in the first quarter of the year, up 25% over a year ago. According to a World Bank analysis, for every one percentage point increase in food prices, 10 million more people are pushed into extreme poverty.

... The UN’s Food and Agriculture Organization’s (FAO) food price index for May, showed prices 22.8 percent higher compared with a year earlier, pushed higher by concerns over the Russian invasion of Ukraine – one of the world’s major bread baskets.

https://www.fao.org/worldfoodsituation/foodpricesindex/en/

If the war continues, 2023 could be a very, very dangerous year.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 07:24:27 AM by vox_mundi »
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

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El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2022, 08:47:49 AM »
Wheat was the only commodity directly affected by the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  Other prices rose due to the rise costs of transportation, due to the crude oil rise. 

I beg to differ. Though the oil price is a most (if not the most) significant driver of food prices there are some special factors here.

For one, there are many food commodities that are NOT traded on exchanges and are effected. Second, there is an actual wheat shortage (caused by the war) and due to replacement effects this spreads to many other food commodities. Third, fertilizer prices (due to sanctions) also rose a lot which likely reduces yields.

kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2022, 09:32:28 AM »
Ukraine war: Hungry Africans are victims of the conflict, Macky Sall tells Vladimir Putin


African countries are innocent victims of the war in Ukraine and Russia should help ease their suffering, the head of the African Union has told Vladimir Putin at a meeting in Russia.

...

The head of the World Food Programme, Mike Dunford, said more than 80 million people were acutely food insecure, acutely hungry in Africa - up from about 50 million people this time last year.

Chad has declared a national food emergency. A third of the population needs food aid, according to the UN and the government has appealed for international assistance.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-61685383
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kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2022, 10:04:05 AM »
Investors Cash In On Food Commodities as the Poor Go Hungry
 
snip

If the war continues, 2023 could be a very, very dangerous year.

Not just war, AGW contributes too:

Drought-stricken US warned of looming 'dead pool'
...

Farmers are already feeling the pain. About 75% of the water from Lake Mead goes to agriculture.

Over a third of America's vegetables and two-thirds of its fruits and nuts are grown in California. But tens of thousands of acres lie idle because farmers can't get enough water to grow crops.

The impact may be seen on grocery store shelves next year, Bill Diedrich, a Californian farmer, told BBC. This season's produce shows up at shops next season, he explained as he showed his bone-dry fallowed fields. Typically, he would plant tomatoes for canning on this field but he didn't have enough water.

...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61669233
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gerontocrat

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2022, 10:06:40 AM »
Investors Cash In On Food Commodities as the Poor Go Hungry
https://m.dw.com/en/investors-cash-in-on-food-commodities-as-the-poor-go-hungry/a-62007084

"In Malawi, our teams are reporting that the prices of maize grain, soybeans and cooking oil have increased significantly, over 50% in some places. The increase in prices is making it difficult for people to access these vital food items."

... After the war broke out in February, commodity-linked "exchange-traded funds (ETFs)," a type of investment fund open to the public, saw a huge uptick in activity: By April, investors had pumped $1.2 billion (€1.12 billion) into two major agricultural ETFs, compared to just $197 million for the whole of 2021, Lighthouse Reports, an investigative journalism NGO, found out.

If the war continues, 2023 could be a very, very dangerous year.
Lesson 1.01 in how to make a bad situation intolerable?

I was working in Malawi from 79 to 83 in Rural Development - Smallholder Agricculture.

The 79-80 rainy season over much of that part of Africa was a disaster, and within a year maize was hard to find. But at least price increases were illegal, as was hoarding, and maize was rationed.

But in the 1980's the IMF and the World Bank forced wholesale privatisation and deregulation of the agricultural sector in Malawi, so unfettered capitalism rules, OK, as is now the general rule worldwide.
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El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2022, 03:37:58 PM »
Capitalism and rationing are NOT mutually exclusive. See the UK experience during WW2

The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2022, 08:06:54 PM »
Investors Cash In On Food Commodities as the Poor Go Hungry
 
snip

If the war continues, 2023 could be a very, very dangerous year.

Not just war, AGW contributes too:

Drought-stricken US warned of looming 'dead pool'
...

Farmers are already feeling the pain. About 75% of the water from Lake Mead goes to agriculture.

Over a third of America's vegetables and two-thirds of its fruits and nuts are grown in California. But tens of thousands of acres lie idle because farmers can't get enough water to grow crops.

The impact may be seen on grocery store shelves next year, Bill Diedrich, a Californian farmer, told BBC. This season's produce shows up at shops next season, he explained as he showed his bone-dry fallowed fields. Typically, he would plant tomatoes for canning on this field but he didn't have enough water.

...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61669233

Is it AGW or just overuse of a natural resource.  With the population growing, and the water demand grower even faster, it is no wonder that the water source is drying up.  Afterall, Lake Mead is in a desert.

kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2022, 10:05:05 PM »
If you posit the question that way i can see a repeat of the last thread.

In reality it is both but they all come from the same root. We simply fail to correctly account for our actions. All this was a long time coming but we mostly just ignore it. If something is not sustainable at some point it will break down.

It looks like we are reaching a point were it is all going to be problematic from this point onward. Whatever extra snow gets dumped in winter just does not last. Of course the large scale driver is AGW but all these people in a relatively small space all overusing the same resource don´t help.

And this is also something we do all over the world.

Anyway all the fallow fields are production drops for next year so that puts a pressure on prices.
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The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2022, 11:02:50 PM »
If you posit the question that way i can see a repeat of the last thread.

In reality it is both but they all come from the same root. We simply fail to correctly account for our actions. All this was a long time coming but we mostly just ignore it. If something is not sustainable at some point it will break down.

It looks like we are reaching a point were it is all going to be problematic from this point onward. Whatever extra snow gets dumped in winter just does not last. Of course the large scale driver is AGW but all these people in a relatively small space all overusing the same resource don´t help.

And this is also something we do all over the world.

Anyway all the fallow fields are production drops for next year so that puts a pressure on prices.

I would posit the opposite.  Namely the large scale driver is too many people overusing the resource.  Even if we completely solve AGW (somehow), this issue is unlikely to go away.  This problem is occurring all over the world.

etienne

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2022, 07:08:43 AM »
Climate change really is an issue. There are Al kinds of vegetables that people didn't water 20 years ago, like potatoes, salads, carrots... That require nowadays regular watering. You also can't plant a tree without planning the watering anymore.

El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2022, 08:47:22 AM »
Climate change really is an issue. There are Al kinds of vegetables that people didn't water 20 years ago, like potatoes, salads, carrots... That require nowadays regular watering. You also can't plant a tree without planning the watering anymore.

Really?

Copernicus says:

"Since 1950, there has been no significant precipitation trend over Europe as a whole."

See attached pic.

I don't doubt that nowadays people water more, but maybe the reason is simply that they can: we have modern watering equipment that are grandfathers had not...



https://climate.copernicus.eu/esotc/2020/precipitations

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2022, 12:45:41 PM »
El Cid, you said yourself somewhere that it is now raining more in Hungary.
Statistics as a whole don't bring much when we talk about growing vegetables. If the quantities stay the same but are concentrated on fewer days, it doesn't help.
I have seen statistics about rain in Luxembourg showing regular rains over the summer, which would allow the use of rain water to flush the toilet, just that it was an average on 20 years.

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2022, 02:58:46 PM »
Not sure I believe this, but the results are intriguing.  It starts with photosynthesis in the corn releasing water into the atmosphere.  The claim is that increased water vapor leads to much higher precipitation and slightly lower temperatures. 

https://www.science.org/content/article/america-s-corn-belt-making-its-own-weather

kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2022, 06:57:07 PM »
I do since there was an older story which had too do with mapping the US on a finer grid so that grid could be used for local predictions and corn regions really stood out in those. They evaporate a lot of water which comes from somewhere.
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Shared Humanity

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2022, 07:18:24 PM »
There are two main sources of water vapor over land, evaporation and transpiration. Transpiration is a process where liquid water is turned into water vapor by the plants. The roots of the plants absorb the water and push it toward leaves where it is used for photosynthesis. The extra water is moved out of leaves through stomata (very tiny openings on leaves) as water vapor. Plants with high rates of transpiration require more water to thrive. It is estimated that 10% of atmospheric water vapor is due to transpiration while 90% is due to evaporation.

The fact that corn or any other food plant releases a lot of water vapor into the atmosphere is NOT good news as it means a warming, drying climate will restrict the range for this crop.

Transpiration rates and the associated crop water needs are well understood in the agricultural sciences.

https://www.fao.org/3/s2022e/s2022e02.htm#2.2%20influence%20of%20the%20crop%20type%20on%20the%20crop%20water%20needs

In section 2.2.1 on the link there is a table that shows the influence of crop type on the daily crop water needs.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 07:26:05 PM by Shared Humanity »

Shared Humanity

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2022, 07:31:48 PM »
There are actually two other sources of water vapor in the atmosphere but the contributions are very small.

Sublimation: ice transformed into water vapor

Respiration: Vapor emitted by animals when exhaling (This is higher from individuals full of hot air and lower for the discerning human being.)  ;)

kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2022, 08:18:03 PM »
Averaging out over Europe, or indeed the USA does not really work for local conditions.

In Europe there is drying south but much less so in the north.
But with our changing atmosphere we do get different downpours.

I think we should not look at totals but at frequencies. If you get a month of drizzle that will soak into the soil. If you have three warm weeks with only evaporation that dries things out and if you then get all that water in one week, or worse in a couple of days it will erode the land.

And that is the pattern which will be more and more prevalent although it might be more noticeable in a coastal sea climate.
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The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2022, 08:39:28 PM »
There are two main sources of water vapor over land, evaporation and transpiration. Transpiration is a process where liquid water is turned into water vapor by the plants. The roots of the plants absorb the water and push it toward leaves where it is used for photosynthesis. The extra water is moved out of leaves through stomata (very tiny openings on leaves) as water vapor. Plants with high rates of transpiration require more water to thrive. It is estimated that 10% of atmospheric water vapor is due to transpiration while 90% is due to evaporation.

The fact that corn or any other food plant releases a lot of water vapor into the atmosphere is NOT good news as it means a warming, drying climate will restrict the range for this crop.


Except that the area that grows corn has experienced a cooler, wetter growing season.

kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2022, 09:24:57 PM »
It sheds a lot of water and thus cools the local environment. Since it is planted in huge monocrops it only works as long as you can water it enough to beat evaporation.
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neal

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2022, 10:01:55 PM »
I do since there was an older story which had too do with mapping the US on a finer grid so that grid could be used for local predictions and corn regions really stood out in those. They evaporate a lot of water which comes from somewhere.

CORN SWEAT !! 4,000 gallons/acre/day

Evapotranspiration (ET) happens when water is taken up by corn plants, and water vapor – the gas form of water – is released into the atmosphere from the leaves while evaporation occurs from the soil, also adding water vapor to the air.

During the height of corn growth, a huge amount of water vapor is released into the atmosphere.

What is “corn sweat”?

This term relates to the high humidity created from the evapotranspiration from corn. At its peak, corn can add up to 4,000 gallons of water vapor to the atmosphere per acre per day.


For reference, there’s a little under 93 million acres of corn planted in the United States in 2021. This added moisture raises humidity levels, which has several effects on weather.

HOW DOES CORN EVAPOTRANSPIRATION AFFECT WEATHER?
One of the effects, as you might have guessed, is that the added moisture in the air makes it muggy outside.

Increased heat index: More water vapor in the air decreases evaporation off our skin, which in turn can increase chances of heat exhaustion, etc.
Moderator of temperature: Higher humidity decreases the chances for extreme high actual temperatures, but the “feels like” temperatures may be quite high.
At night, there’s not as much of a dip in temperature. Opening the windows at night doesn’t work well because all you’re letting in is still warm, wet air.

EVAPOTRANSPIRATION IN CORN VS. ON THE PRAIRIE
Now you may be thinking, how does this evapotranspiration compare to natural vegetation, or in other words, prairie?

Recent studies showed the amount of evapotranspiration between cornfields and prairie habitats are fairly similar in eastern areas of the Corn Belt, but corn may have much higher evapotranspiration in dryer areas such as the Great Plains.

The timing of peak evapotranspiration is also different. Prairie hits its evapotranspiration peak earlier in the season compared with corn. That may mean summer mugginess was not as great when prairie covered the landscape, but that is just speculation on my part.

Does the higher atmospheric moisture from corn during the summer increase chances for precipitation?

One study says yes. According to an article in Geophysical Research Letters, results of both regional climate model simulations and observational analyses suggest that much of the observed rainfall increase — as well as the decrease in temperature and increase in humidity — is attributable to agricultural intensification in the central United States.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
To sum it up, corn affects our weather by:

Decreasing chances for extreme high actual temperatures during the day
Increasing the “feels like” temperatures
Increasing chances for higher nighttime temperatures
Increasing chances for more rain
Making the air feel more tropical


https://www.agriculture.com/got-excessive-perspiration-blame-the-corn-sweats

The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2022, 11:38:49 PM »
Sounds like a recipe for exponential growth.

El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2022, 08:15:29 AM »

The fact that corn or any other food plant releases a lot of water vapor into the atmosphere is NOT good news as it means a warming, drying climate will restrict the range for this crop.



On the contrary. It is the same effect forests are alleged to have: the more forests you have, the more it rains because forests create their own precipitation. Also, the more forests (or maybe corn? this was new for me) you have the more inland moisture carrying clouds can go. See the Amazon. Or see how inner Australia dried up after cca 10000-20000 BC natives burnt the forests there

oren

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2022, 08:44:33 AM »
The difference is that natural forests get their own water to evaporate (barring climate change), while the water evaporated by the corn usually comes from depleting aquifers, AFAIK.

Sebastian Jones

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2022, 08:46:11 AM »
Averaging out over Europe, or indeed the USA does not really work for local conditions.

In Europe there is drying south but much less so in the north.
But with our changing atmosphere we do get different downpours.

I think we should not look at totals but at frequencies. If you get a month of drizzle that will soak into the soil. If you have three warm weeks with only evaporation that dries things out and if you then get all that water in one week, or worse in a couple of days it will erode the land.

And that is the pattern which will be more and more prevalent although it might be more noticeable in a coastal sea climate.
However, Europe as a whole is warming and warmer places require more water to grow the same crops.
So, if more crops are irrigated now than 50 years ago in Europe, and average precipitation has not changed, it could just be that summers are hotter now- as well as seasonality and irregularity of precipitation.

trm1958

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #80 on: June 06, 2022, 01:56:16 PM »
Famine in 2022
532,941 viewsJun 3, 2022




Quote
Connect A to B to give C, baffles world leaders

(From, Where there is no Doctor by David Verner)

https://www.pdfdrive.com/where-there-...

http://159.69.48.3/ (John's books free download)

Russia and Ukraine, produce 30% of the world’s wheat

Ukraine, provides food for 400 million people

Middle East and Africa

Between 2018 and 2021

People in crisis situations, acute food insecurity up 88%

Now over 139 million

161 million in 2022

Early February, Ukraine

Exporting 4.5m tonnes of food per month

20 million tonnes of grain, currently stuck in Ukraine

Black Sea ports

15% of global corn

67% of global sunflower oil

UN food and agricultural price index

https://www.fao.org/worldfoodsituatio...

All time high in March

Cereal and meat price also record levels

Last year, Chicago wheat, $674 bushel

Now, $ 1,242

Global food prices 30% up on last year

https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...

UN secretary general António Guterres

When war is waged, people go hungry

60% of the undernourished people live in conflict areas

2021

800 million undernourished people

140 million people suffering acute hunger

Afghanistan, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Haiti, Nigeria, Pakistan, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria and Yemen

Now

44 million people in 38 countries,

at emergency levels of hunger

shortages of grain and fertiliser caused by the war,

warming temperatures,

pandemic-driven supply problems threaten to,

tip tens of millions of people over the edge into food insecurity

Followed by, malnutrition, mass hunger and famine, in a crisis that could last for years

The complex security, economic and financial implications require goodwill on all sides for a package deal to be reached

Let’s be clear: there is no effective solution to the food crisis without reintegrating Ukraine’s food production

Russia must permit the safe and secure export of grain stored in Ukrainian ports

Russian food and fertilisers must have full and unrestricted access to world markets

WFP head David Beasley, US secretary of state Antony Blinken

The world is on fire. We have solutions. We need to act

 and we need to act now

greatest global food security crisis of our time

Energy prices, effects fertiliser, farm equipment

António Guterres

There is enough food for everyone in the world
but the issue is about distribution

In our world of plenty,

I will never accept the death from hunger of a single child, woman or man

Neither should the members of this Council.

El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #81 on: June 06, 2022, 04:39:58 PM »
NatGeo reports that climate change caused very positive yield changes in the Corn Belt:

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/environment/article/us-corn-production-booming-but-its-future-isnt-clear

They say:

"according to a new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, over the past 15 years, the primary driver of growing corn yields has been another factor entirely: the longer growing seasons and mild weather promoted by climate change."

Of course nothing positive can ever be said about the effects of climate change, it must always and without exception be negative, so:

"That is not necessarily good news, scientists hasten to add. As the world keeps warming, conditions in the Corn Belt may become less favorable to corn, endangering further gains."

This is what I hate about media reports and even scientific discussions about AGW. You must take a side and either it is always and in every aspect bad (which is objectively not true) or you become a denier (which is simply stupid). There's no middle way. If you try to be objective, alarmists will say you are a denier, and deniers will say you are an alarmist...


Shared Humanity

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #82 on: June 06, 2022, 05:43:09 PM »

Of course nothing positive can ever be said about the effects of climate change, it must always and without exception be negative, so:


Ahhhhh...yes. Can't wait for the "Heaven On Earth" that AGW has in store for us.

The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #83 on: June 06, 2022, 06:16:20 PM »
NatGeo reports that climate change caused very positive yield changes in the Corn Belt:

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/environment/article/us-corn-production-booming-but-its-future-isnt-clear

They say:

"according to a new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, over the past 15 years, the primary driver of growing corn yields has been another factor entirely: the longer growing seasons and mild weather promoted by climate change."

Of course nothing positive can ever be said about the effects of climate change, it must always and without exception be negative, so:

"That is not necessarily good news, scientists hasten to add. As the world keeps warming, conditions in the Corn Belt may become less favorable to corn, endangering further gains."

This is what I hate about media reports and even scientific discussions about AGW. You must take a side and either it is always and in every aspect bad (which is objectively not true) or you become a denier (which is simply stupid). There's no middle way. If you try to be objective, alarmists will say you are a denier, and deniers will say you are an alarmist...

So true.  I find myself constantly in the unenviable middle.  There can never be any silver lining among the true believers.

neal

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2022, 06:45:21 PM »
The glossy version and the study version...

....Climate change on course to hit U.S. Corn Belt especially hard, study finds. Significant agricultural adaptation will be necessary and inevitable in the Central and Eastern United States...Climate change will make the U.S. Corn Belt unsuitable for cultivating corn by 2100 without major technological advances in agricultural practices, a new study finds...


and

...Although agricultural activity—specifically input use, crop insurance, and government support—plays an important role in amplifying and expanding current cultivation geographies, I find that climate drives suitability, accurately predicting as much as 93% of cotton and wheat occurrences and ∼87 and ∼90% of corn and soy occurrences (table 2(A); SI table 1). This corresponds with existing research highlighting the significant contribution of climate variability to agricultural yields [5, 12, 64] and the nonlinear manner in which climate—particularly temperature—interacts with yields [3, 34] (SI figure 14). This research holds dire warnings for the future of global agricultural systems, suggesting that each 1 °C of warming is projected to decrease global yields of wheat by 6%, maize by 7.4% and soybeans by 3.1% [4]. The research presented in this paper looks beyond production to identify the regions biophysically capable of supporting these crops in the future. The findings suggest massive shifts in suitability for the six crops that currently dominate agricultural landscapes in the U.S. This means that significant agricultural adaptation will be necessary and inevitable in the Central and Eastern U.S.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/05/220524124624.htm#:~:text=Climate%20change%20will%20make%20the,practices%2C%20a%20new%20study%20finds.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac6c3d

neal

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #85 on: June 06, 2022, 06:52:58 PM »
Another corn study...

Apparently increased irrigation mitigates some of the decline, but whatever could go wrong with increased irrigation...

...Corn is susceptible to environmental factors such as increased air temperature, increased radiation, vapor pressure deficit and humidity change, according to lead researcher Suat Irmak, professor and head of the Department of Agricultural and Biological Engineering in the College of Agricultural Sciences. He and his team noted that irrigated yields will be impacted much less than rainfed yields.

"In our study, depending on the atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations and associated level of warming, we saw declines in rainfed corn yields ranging from 2.2% to 21.5%," he said. "Under those same greenhouse gas concentrations, the range of declines was lower for irrigated yields -- from 3.7% to 15.6%, due to irrigation technologies providing more stable crop growth conditions under water- and temperature-stress."

Global climate is very likely to warm by 2.16-3.42 degrees Fahrenheit from now to 2040, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Irmak explained. The global mean surface temperature was 1.78 degrees F higher during the period 2001-20 than during the pre-industrial period of 1850-1900, the United Nations panel found.

Previous research by Irmak and others has shown that climate change already has impacted crop productivity of major agricultural crops across global agroecosystems. Previously, Irmak found that due to the increase in air temperature, spring frosts are occurring earlier and fall frosts are occurring later. This results in increased growing season length up to 20-plus days, which has significant implications for agricultural production in the U.S. and globally.

The research is important, Irmak noted, because by many measures corn is the country's most important crop. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, corn accounts for 92 million acres of land use in the United States. With a continuous increase in air temperature and atmospheric moisture demand -- coupled with increasingly limited water supply conditions and water quality degradation in the midwestern and western regions -- we may see a substantial shift in corn production to eastern U.S. regions, he warned.

"These analyses can be valuable for policy-makers, decision-makers and agricultural and water resource managers/professionals to evaluate the future tradeoffs among irrigation and rainfed yields," he said. "They need to know how landscapes are projected to perform under two scenarios with respect to climate change."

In findings recently published in Agricultural Water Management, the researchers reported that, based on their modeling results, rainfed yields will decline up to 40 bushels per acre, whereas irrigated yields are projected to decline only 19 bushels per acre. Additionally, rainfed corn yield will be more variable than yields from irrigated corn under most of the global circulation models.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220222121251.htm
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 07:12:57 PM by neal »

kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2022, 06:04:31 PM »
NatGeo reports that climate change caused very positive yield changes in the Corn Belt:

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/environment/article/us-corn-production-booming-but-its-future-isnt-clear

They say:

"according to a new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, over the past 15 years, the primary driver of growing corn yields has been another factor entirely: the longer growing seasons and mild weather promoted by climate change."

Of course nothing positive can ever be said about the effects of climate change, it must always and without exception be negative, so:

"That is not necessarily good news, scientists hasten to add. As the world keeps warming, conditions in the Corn Belt may become less favorable to corn, endangering further gains."

Maybe they should have written that first paragraph better. There are lots of locations where the growing season lengthens because winter is shorter. This is fine when the rest is ok. In the long term there will be problems because if you just crank up the temperatures the summers are going to be too hot.

And there is another things which this long term research does not capture well. You can have a great year but if you then get way too much rain at the end of the season you can lose a lot then.  With the hydrological cycle which charges up with temperature this will become an issue (for the places that get decent rain).

How you think about climate change or which facet you think is most important or even the time scale changing the background but of course most posts will single in a on one detail or reading.
Basically the question is never bad yay or nay but how bad how soon.

And don´t forget other details. For Corn it really depends where the water comes from. If it´s a river what is going to happen over the time to the river (does it get fed by snowmelt? How much upstream use by cities/growing and how is that going to evolve etc? If it is from the aquifer how much years left? Etc).

It´s always more complicated but the best you can do is just state your case as clear as possible.

And simply put if look ahead a couple of decades into the future it will be really bad. Looking at our current pace of cleaning up the mess/reducing our outputs there is not that much to be optimistic about plus at some point we will run into BOE trouble. We are going to reach near 1,5C  at some point. That is actually objectively problematic, or so i think. Of course you can disagree.

 

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2022, 06:26:57 PM »
NatGeo reports that climate change caused very positive yield changes in the Corn Belt:

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/environment/article/us-corn-production-booming-but-its-future-isnt-clear

They say:

"according to a new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, over the past 15 years, the primary driver of growing corn yields has been another factor entirely: the longer growing seasons and mild weather promoted by climate change."

Of course nothing positive can ever be said about the effects of climate change, it must always and without exception be negative, so:

"That is not necessarily good news, scientists hasten to add. As the world keeps warming, conditions in the Corn Belt may become less favorable to corn, endangering further gains."

Maybe they should have written that first paragraph better. There are lots of locations where the growing season lengthens because winter is shorter. This is fine when the rest is ok. In the long term there will be problems because if you just crank up the temperatures the summers are going to be too hot.


That is exactly why the growing seasons are longer - shorter winters.  In the long term, there is not likely to be much of a problem, because the summers are not getting hotter (as shown in the previous paper).  Combined with the higher rainfall, and this is a big win for the corn farmers.  Hence, I feel that the first paragraph was written appropriately.

kassy

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2022, 08:09:42 PM »
But that is still focusing on only a part. How long is short term?  If it evaporates that much how long are you going to have the water? How fair is that for the people who will have to cope with long term?

And besides that i think we can all agree that US corn will not really factor into the 2022 food developments unless something happens.
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El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2022, 08:49:44 PM »
The glossy version and the study version...



study version, abstract:

"maize-production domain in the world located in Nebraska (United States) during the 2005-to-2018 period. We found that 48% of the yield gain was associated with a decadal climate trend, 39% with agronomic improvements, and, by difference, only 13% with improvement in genetic yield potential. The fact that these findings were so different from most previous studies, which gave much-greater weight to genetic yield potential improvement, gives urgency to the need to reevaluate contributions to yield advances for all major food crops to help guide future investments in research and development to achieve sustainable global food security"

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2113629119

The Walrus

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #90 on: June 07, 2022, 09:57:17 PM »
The study found that much of "the significant upward trend in yield potential was therefore associated with a decadal trend of increasingly more-favorable weather during the study period."

Increased rainfall, combined with cooler summer temperatures provided a more favorable environment for growing.

vox_mundi

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2022, 03:30:27 AM »
KFC Switches to Cabbage Mix In Australia Due to Lettuce Shortage
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/7/kfc-switches-to-cabbage-mix-due-to-lettuce-shortages-in-australia

KFC says change is due to a lettuce shortage after floods destroyed crops in New South Wales and Queensland.

The fried chicken chain KFC has been forced to make menu changes in its burgers and wraps in Australia as the country faces the consequences of floods that destroyed lettuce crops.

"Due to the recent floods in NSW [New South Wales] and QLD [Queensland] we’re currently experiencing a lettuce shortage. So, we’re using a lettuce and cabbage blend on all products containing lettuce until further notice,” the company told customers in a statement on Tuesday.

The local price of the verdant leaf has also soared by as much as 300 percent in recent months. A single head of iceberg lettuce in Sydney or Melbourne that once sold for about $2 now goes for close to $8.

... The change was certainly not the top choice of some social media users.

“The fact that you are replacing lettuce with cabbage makes me rethink my whole meal at KFC. There’s 4 or 5 other things I would eat before cabbage Its such a weird choice,” wrote one disgruntled Twitter user.

“Feels like a sign of the apocalypse,” said another.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 11:42:47 AM by vox_mundi »
There are 3 classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus

El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2022, 09:01:25 AM »
Interesting. I never understood why lettuce (and other salad greens) should be expensive, when growing it (at least in a home garden) is the world's easiest thing and takes only 2 months and can be grown any time except winter (here we have cca 0-1 C average temps during winter)...

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2022, 10:42:01 AM »
 'cause in the 'free world' even lettuce growers have a right to get paid for their work .
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El Cid

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2022, 11:03:06 AM »
'cause in the 'free world' even lettuce growers have a right to get paid for their work .

Sure, just like berry, cherry and apple pickers and the like. You know, free Romanians in Britain, free Mexicans in the US and so on. They surely appreciate their wages and place in the free world...

 

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2022, 03:45:54 PM »
'cause in the 'free world' even lettuce growers have a right to get paid for their work .

Sure, just like berry, cherry and apple pickers and the like. You know, free Romanians in Britain, free Mexicans in the US and so on. They surely appreciate their wages and place in the free world...

With any food source, the two major costs are workers and transport to market. 

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2022, 03:53:28 PM »
Interesting. I never understood why lettuce (and other salad greens) should be expensive, when growing it (at least in a home garden) is the world's easiest thing and takes only 2 months and can be grown any time except winter (here we have cca 0-1 C average temps during winter)...

Well here it is a simple supply and demand issue. Big buyers also need big suppliers and it is probably those that got hit in the floods.

You can easily grow your own so you have cheap lettuce but you can´t grow enough for the local KFC plus iceberg lettuce is sort of boring production stuff. There are better types to grow.

I did see a video about people who had organized backyard farmers in New Zealand SI. They sold their excess crop in the local region.
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vox_mundi

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #97 on: June 11, 2022, 04:36:22 AM »
Smithfield Foods to Close Bulk of Operation in Beaver, Vernon County, Impacting Estimated 2500+ Workers
https://abc7.com/farmer-john-meatpacking-plant-closing-vernon-california-smithfield-foods-inc/11945122/
https://www.ksl.com/article/50421114/smithfield-foods-to-close-bulk-of-operation-in-beaver-county-impacting-estimated-250-workers

... Smithfield Foods announced in a news release Friday that it is ceasing all harvest and processing operations in Vernon, California, early next year and plans to "align its hog production system by reducing its sow herd in its Western region."

Sources tell ABC7 between 1,800 and 2,500 employees are set to be laid off.

That includes decreasing its sow herd in west-central Utah and potentially exiting its farms in Arizona and California, according to Smithfield Foods. The company said it is taking those steps due to the "escalating cost of doing business in California." (... no water; no feed?)

... Munroe said the Smithfield is not disclosing the percentage of the sow herd it plans to reduce in Utah, nor would he say how many hogs the company owns in the state. The company plans to move most of its operations to the Midwest, and hogs in Utah will go to a different facility.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 04:49:37 AM by vox_mundi »
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etienne

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #98 on: June 11, 2022, 08:20:39 AM »
What I find the most shocking in this news is that suppressing 4 dots out of many in industrial herds means so many people. How could a company take good care of animals  if there are so many levels between the CEO and the hogs?
If these people are able to find another job, maybe it will be a liberation for them.

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Re: 2022 Food developments
« Reply #99 on: June 11, 2022, 09:11:13 AM »
Re: If these people are able to find another job, maybe it will be a liberation

Yes. The working conditions in those places are horrific. Alas, Smithfield is merely exporting those jobs to poorer countries, where they will pay the worker even less to endure even more horrific conditions.

But, i suppose, better discussed on another thread.

sidd