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CraigsIsland

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crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« on: June 21, 2013, 08:02:00 PM »
I know it's a hypothetical, but I like exploring ideas because they can be useful when concepts are put into a different context.

Is it possible to "block" or impede the flow of ice out of the fram?

Say build a "dam" or a very long line of barges (I know, impractical but hey...) from Greenland to Svelbard. Would it be somewhat effective in delaying the effects of the fram ice export and overall would it slow down the arctic sea ice melting process?


OldLeatherneck

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Re: crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 09:58:43 PM »
I don't think they make anchor chains long enough to hold the vast majority of the barges steady across the strait.

Even if it did work, it would  only be a temporary reprieve.
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Laurent

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Re: crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 10:02:25 PM »
Have you noticed how the ice is melting before entering the Fram strait !?

crandles

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Re: crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 10:03:09 PM »
I have no idea but presumably the pressure would be enormous. More than an anchor chain could withstand?

Perhaps Nares with a boat pumping up water in winter to freeze to make a really thick ice arch?

Would that be a banned geo-engineering project?

Juan C. García

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Re: crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 11:37:10 PM »
The best ideas could look crazy at the beginning. I don´t know what the pressure will be, but I think that could be good to investigate more about what can be done. A dam with the water pump in winter? Maybe a combinations of several ideas will work.
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

CraigsIsland

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Re: crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2013, 12:03:58 AM »
Green lines are chains anchored to land (horizontal deployment).

purple are series of connected barges (or whatever cheap, but very strong material).

deploy barges off shore during September, connect them to anchored chains and hopefully ice collects and freezes over chains.

The idea is to produce a blockage that slows the export out of the arctic. The chains could freeze over and make the ice pack stronger.

This could be more beneficial over costs assumed by not doing it. Temporary sure. But it'll reduce amount of darker materials around that area.
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I was looking at "Ice Dams" (as it applies to homes) and if a bio engineered way to do the opposite for homes in the fram, it could be positive.

ggelsrinc

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Re: crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2013, 01:17:42 AM »
I know it's a hypothetical, but I like exploring ideas because they can be useful when concepts are put into a different context.

Is it possible to "block" or impede the flow of ice out of the fram?

Say build a "dam" or a very long line of barges (I know, impractical but hey...) from Greenland to Svelbard. Would it be somewhat effective in delaying the effects of the fram ice export and overall would it slow down the arctic sea ice melting process?

Blocking Fram could be done, a good bit of that area is shallow. It would require anchoring enough points and blocking the space between them. It would be a good idea to start up a nylon plant first and work out a system to allow a large iceberg to pass through or blow them up, so it doesn't sink the operation.



Borrowing a piece of Petermann to make an ice bridge at Nares would be nice, but the weather there isn't. You could use Nares as a model to work out the kinks.

I think using nuclear ice breakers to exhaust heat under FYI during freeze up and using fragmentation ridging to make more sea ice is another approach to a crazy idea. I think any idea to save the arctic sea ice would need precise measurements of the sea ice from above and below. Blowing up an iceberg or piece of an ice shelf to make sea ice or letting them pass preventing a collision with the barrier requires precisely tracking them.

To really be successful would require returning the arctic sea ice back to the days when the minimum still had most of the Arctic Ocean frozen and CAA was also frozen. The area of the frozen arctic at minimum sea ice would have to be around 7 '79 GIS areas and MYI returned to those levels.

It would be easier to block Fram Strait than get the international cooperation to do it and the world would also have to stop greenhouse gas emissions. We can buy time with mitigation and geoengineering, but only reduction of atmospheric CO2 will eventually stop GIS from melting, ocean acidification and the other harmful effects of climate change. The arctic sea ice would require CO2 levels less than '79 levels to be stable in it's own landlocked, sea ice exporting way. I think we would have to be around 320 to 330 ppm CO2 (~ 1960, 1970 levels), which means removing 70 to 80 ppm CO2 from the atmosphere and zero greenhouse gas emissions. Hansen's 350 ppm CO2 1990 levels would still require ongoing mitigation to preserve sea ice, like blocking Fram.   

   

 

johnm33

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Re: crazy idea: block Fram Strait
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 11:58:22 AM »
Why not just 'net' the bergs and attach sea anchors, like parachutes, designed to float at the depth of the strongest northward current?