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Neven

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The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« on: June 26, 2023, 08:45:12 AM »
This thread is not so much to discuss the scientific aspects of the SARS-CoV-2, but rather the implications and ramifications on the level of society, politics, economics and the bigger picture in general. It's also a good place to note the subtle and ongoing shift away from the official narrative that kept the entire world in its grips for two years straight. In that respect, scientific aspects can be discussed as well, of course.
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Neven

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2023, 08:53:06 AM »

There is no herd immunity for COVID yet, and possibly never will be. Herd immunity applies for diseases where reinfection is virtually impossible like measles. Initially people hoped immunity would be permanent but omicron scotched that. For a substantial fraction of the population, reinfection is possible within a few months and consequently there will always be another wave.

So, why aren't people taking their boosters? Aren't they afraid of hospitalisation and death?

Who here is still taking regular boosters?
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Tom Stedman

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2023, 12:20:31 PM »
Is Omicron not a much less dangerous strain of COVID 19?
For what few cases of people catching COVID that I've heard of lately, it doesn't seem to be killing anyone,
.
I would guess the uptake of boosters is a lot lower than late 2021

Neven

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2023, 12:39:40 PM »
Is Omicron not a much less dangerous strain of COVID 19?

Yes, and this was known at the start of the massive jabbing campaigns, but as many people as possible still had to get jabbed, even young people and children who didn't need the jabs and were at a much greater risk from them than from COVID-19.

This is what happens when crises are exploited. And who foots the bill, with money and QALYs?
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oren

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2023, 01:25:15 PM »
Is Omicron not a much less dangerous strain of COVID 19?

Yes, and this was known at the start of the massive jabbing campaigns
Was it though? I think you have it fully the other way around.
Vaccine rollout began in Dec 2020, and was mostly deployed by the end of 2021 in developed countries, when it was Alpha and then Delta that was dominant, with its high death rates.
Omicron was only identified in Nov 2021 and became dominant in the beginning of 2022.
Global death counts only dropped in March 2022.








Neven

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2023, 01:41:16 PM »
They lied, oren. Almost all public officials of every western country lied to get as many people as possible jabbed (including children and young people) to line the pockets of Big Pharma. You can admit that, while at the same time maintaining that SARS-CoV-2 was a threat. But you'll never admit anything, not even the tiniest point, because you're afraid the whole house of cards comes crashing down if the flawed and manipulated official narrative is revised.



Quote
"There must be a substantive reckoning within our public health institutions and government more generally in the aftermath of the pandemic."

Spoiler alert: there isn't one.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 01:50:21 PM by Neven »
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oren

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2023, 01:51:32 PM »
I can't admit what I don't think is true.
I do admit to not caring much about narratives and all that shite that you are so very keen about.
This thread is gonna be that kind of thread, I will try to avoid bothering you here.

NevB

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2023, 02:19:12 PM »

There is no herd immunity for COVID yet, and possibly never will be. Herd immunity applies for diseases where reinfection is virtually impossible like measles. Initially people hoped immunity would be permanent but omicron scotched that. For a substantial fraction of the population, reinfection is possible within a few months and consequently there will always be another wave.

So, why aren't people taking their boosters? Aren't they afraid of hospitalisation and death?

Who here is still taking regular boosters?

Anecdote, I just had my 5th in the last few weeks, many people though have been scared away.

NevB

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2023, 02:31:16 PM »
They lied

I assume this would require that the death rates are a lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/09/two-thirds-of-15400-extra-australian-deaths-in-2022-caused-by-covid-study-finds

Quote
The latest weekly figures come as a comprehensive analysis of the impact of Covid-19 on mortality rates has found there were 15,400 “excess deaths” across Australia in the first eight months of 2022, or 13% more than predicted.

The trustworthiness of stats in countries varies but lying about excess deaths in Australia would take a massive conspiracy. Either it's COVID or vaccine side effects. I believe that's COVID.
Still here and deaths rising again recently, this isn't going away soon.

NevB

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2023, 02:44:31 PM »
Another article about excess deaths

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/australia-recorded-20-000-more-deaths-than-expected-last-year-this-is-why/wle0tyz07


Quote
Have we seen excess mortality this dramatic before?
Excess mortality does not usually vary by more than one or two per cent, according to data from the last 20 years, Ms Cutter said.

"That's usually related to whether we have a bad flu season or not ... mortality is generally fairly predictable from year to year, so to have a 12 per cent excess mortality this year is quite exceptional," she said.

The disruption from long term health problems is being mostly ignored but this will have consequences.

Quote
Adrian Esterman, chair of biostatistics and epidemiology at the University of South Australia, said the impact of COVID-19 extends beyond the number of people who have died from the virus.

“There is reasonably hard evidence that 10 per cent of infected people end up with long-term health problems,” he said.

“This is an enormous number, it will put an enormous strain on our health system … we know it increases the risk of dementia, it hugely increases the risk of heart problems, and the list goes on and on.”

Alexander555

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2023, 02:47:09 PM »
It started in China, and the large scale stopped in China. Was that because their vaccines were bad ? Or was that because they isolated everybody ? So natural immunity could not spread.

Rodius

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2023, 03:59:18 PM »
They lied

I assume this would require that the death rates are a lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/09/two-thirds-of-15400-extra-australian-deaths-in-2022-caused-by-covid-study-finds

Quote
The latest weekly figures come as a comprehensive analysis of the impact of Covid-19 on mortality rates has found there were 15,400 “excess deaths” across Australia in the first eight months of 2022, or 13% more than predicted.

The trustworthiness of stats in countries varies but lying about excess deaths in Australia would take a massive conspiracy. Either it's COVID or vaccine side effects. I believe that's COVID.
Still here and deaths rising again recently, this isn't going away soon.

Nevin doesnt believe in facts about Covid. For him, it is more about how the pandemic furthered the wants of those in power and because of that, Covid must be made up or made to look worse to encourage more fear.

What he doesnt seem to understand is COVID can be dangerous and require action to contain it AND those in power abused the situation and create profits at the same time.

You can have a vaccine that reduces death and seriousness and have BigPharm abuse that power to make money that, honestly, shouldnt have been made.

Govts should do medical research, not private companies.

People in power just took advantage of a real situation, but somehow so many people think that in order for power to be abused it must also include Covid being weak and underwhelming to prove their point.

I mentioned in the other thread (why have two?) how Australian hospitals are yet to fall below the stress levels created by a bad flu season and that this has been going on for 18 months straight. This little fact gets ignored because it would require admitting that Covid is still a serious disease that is still much worse than a bad flu season that has yet to end.

No... it has to be a political football or conspiracy instead to him and others here.

The Walrus

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2023, 04:11:15 PM »
It started in China, and the large scale stopped in China. Was that because their vaccines were bad ? Or was that because they isolated everybody ? So natural immunity could not spread.

China is not out of the woods yet.

https://time.com/6283257/china-xbb-covid-outbreak/

This coming after the deadly variant hit in January.

https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/cn

Freegrass

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2023, 04:13:17 PM »
So, why aren't people taking their boosters? Aren't they afraid of hospitalisation and death?

Who here is still taking regular boosters?
I'm still getting my boosters. Had my last one in October last year, and I'm getting a new one this coming autumn. SARS CoV2 is endemic now, like the flu, and vulnerable people are getting vaccinated for the flu every year. It'll be the same for SARS CoV2 now. Those that want to get a booster, can get it. Those that don't want it, won't. No reason to start yet another new thread about COVID. It was a scary pandemic, and scientists weren't quit sure how to handle it. The last big pandemic was more than 100 years ago, and science has come a long way since then. Did they make mistakes? Probably... Did they learn a lot? Definitely... Will they do better next time? I hope so...

Can we now please remove this thread from the main page? I'm sick and tired of the SARS CoV2 debate. Move on!
When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs or traditions, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again.

zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2023, 08:02:20 PM »
the pandemic was politicized and weaponized right out of the gates so i don't know why it's moved here now. the main take-away is how corrupted the entire scientific undertaking has become, "the science" is destroying science. the british medical journal was highlighting this throughout the pandemic. why aren't people still following science and posting studies on the other thread anymore? when i do they just get ignored like it's early 2022 as though "the science" is still valid.

Risk of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) among Those Up-to-Date and Not Up-to-Date on COVID-19 Vaccination
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.09.23290893v1

ABSTRACT
Background The CDC recently defined being “up-to-date” on COVID-19 vaccination as having received at least one dose of a COVID-19 bivalent vaccine. The purpose of this study was to compare the risk of COVID-19 among those “up-to-date” and “not up-to-date” on COVID-19 vaccination.

Methods Employees of Cleveland Clinic in employment when the COVID-19 bivalent vaccine first became available, and still employed when the XBB lineages became dominant, were included.

Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 since the XBB lineages became dominant was compared across the “up-to-date” and “not up-to-date” states, by treating COVID-19 bivalent vaccination as a time-dependent covariate whose value changed on receipt of the vaccine. Risk of COVID-19 by vaccination status was also compared using multivariable Cox proportional hazards regression adjusting for propensity to get tested for COVID-19, age, sex, and phase of most recent prior SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Results COVID-19 occurred in 1475 (3%) of 48 344 employees during the 100-day study period. The cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was lower in the “not up-to-date” than in the “up-to-date” state. On multivariable analysis, not being “up-to-date” with COVID-19 vaccination was associated with lower risk of COVID-19 (HR, 0.77; 95% C.I., 0.69-0.86; P-value, <0.001). Results were very similar when those 65 years and older were only considered “up-to-date” after receiving 2 doses of the bivalent vaccine.

Conclusions Since the XBB lineages became dominant, adults “not up-to-date” by the CDC definition have a lower risk of COVID-19 than those “up-to-date” on COVID-19 vaccination, bringing into question the value of this risk classification definition.

Summary Among 48 344 working-aged Cleveland Clinic employees, those not “up-to-date” on COVID-19 vaccination had a lower risk of COVID-19 than those “up-to-date”. The current CDC definition provides a meaningless classification of risk of COVID-19 in the adult population.

----

IgG4 Antibodies Induced by Repeated Vaccination May Generate Immune Tolerance to the SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/11/5/991

"Increased IgG4 synthesis due to repeated mRNA vaccination with high antigen concentrations may also cause autoimmune diseases, and promote cancer growth and autoimmune myocarditis in susceptible individuals."

"Finally, these negative outcomes are not expected to affect all people who have received these mRNA vaccines. Individuals with genetic susceptibility, immune deficiencies, and comorbidities are probably the most likely to be affected. However, this gives rise to a disturbing paradox—if people who are the most affected by the COVID-19 disease (the elderly, diabetics, hypertensive, and immunocompromised people like those with HIV) are also more susceptible to suffering the negative effects of repeated mRNA vaccination, is it then justified to booster them? As Omicron subvariants have been demonstrated to be less pathogenic [133,134,135,136,137], and mRNA vaccines do not protect against re-infection [14,138], clinicians should be aware of the possible detrimental effects on the immune system by administering boosters."

we learned that scientific understanding around respiratory viruses, coronavirus vaccines and mrna vaccines prior to the pandemic is still valid, despite "the science" desperately trying to pretend otherwise. we learned how people will behave towards each other when authorities authorize demonizing a group deemed sub-human and worthy of erasure, this validates old psychological studies. we also learned a great deal about elite plans for our techno-utopian future.

in the end we learned how irrational and easily manipulated people are and when confronted with contradictory evidence they'll continue to believe what they've been told to believe, hear only what they want, and see only that which confirms their bias.

this message should be censored - delete, delete, delete.
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The Walrus

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2023, 01:16:31 AM »
Agree.  Instead of working together, opposing politicians demonized each other, creating confusion amongst the populous.  On top of that, there were some who claimed knowledge, when they had none.  This led to various conflicting practices.  The biggest loser was trust in the science (trust in politicians has been lost for quite awhile).

Richard Rathbone

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2023, 02:06:35 AM »

I mentioned in the other thread (why have two?) how Australian hospitals are yet to fall below the stress levels created by a bad flu season and that this has been going on for 18 months straight.

Judging by OurWorldInData figures Australia is just coming off its winter peak. Judging by whats happening in Europe now, omicron has got close enough to its peak efficiency that the next wave(s) will be next winter and over the next months that pressure will drop back to well below what it was 18 months ago. The UK is now at levels of COVID pressure previously only attained in lockdowns (still some way to get below the lockdown minimums but it might well happen before winter).

The pattern is the same everywhere in Europe but there are some dramatic differences in hospitalisation rates e.g. France is consistently double the UK rate while the Netherlands is a quarter of the UK rate and Belgium and the UK are about the same fraction of the population. I'd expect France to be higher than the UK because it has more beds so you have to be sicker in the UK before you can get into hospital than you do in France, but I don't know why the Netherlands is reporting rates 1/10th of France. Maybe its dramatically better at infection control in hospitals than the other countries? An awful lot of hospital COVID in the UK is caught in hospital.

NevB

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2023, 03:27:04 AM »
Agree.  Instead of working together, opposing politicians demonized each other, creating confusion amongst the populous.  On top of that, there were some who claimed knowledge, when they had none.  This led to various conflicting practices.  The biggest loser was trust in the science (trust in politicians has been lost for quite awhile).

We know what side that came from, the politicization of this has done enormous damage and will leave us more vulnerable to any inevitable future pandemic. 

Rodius

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2023, 04:15:24 AM »

I mentioned in the other thread (why have two?) how Australian hospitals are yet to fall below the stress levels created by a bad flu season and that this has been going on for 18 months straight.

Judging by OurWorldInData figures Australia is just coming off its winter peak. Judging by whats happening in Europe now, omicron has got close enough to its peak efficiency that the next wave(s) will be next winter and over the next months that pressure will drop back to well below what it was 18 months ago. The UK is now at levels of COVID pressure previously only attained in lockdowns (still some way to get below the lockdown minimums but it might well happen before winter).

The pattern is the same everywhere in Europe but there are some dramatic differences in hospitalisation rates e.g. France is consistently double the UK rate while the Netherlands is a quarter of the UK rate and Belgium and the UK are about the same fraction of the population. I'd expect France to be higher than the UK because it has more beds so you have to be sicker in the UK before you can get into hospital than you do in France, but I don't know why the Netherlands is reporting rates 1/10th of France. Maybe its dramatically better at infection control in hospitals than the other countries? An awful lot of hospital COVID in the UK is caught in hospital.

That is correct, the peak of the latest wave is dropping.

YET.... even when the numbers are at the bottom of the wave, it is STILL WORSE than a bad flu season in terms of stress on the health systems.

Think on that for a moment...

zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2023, 04:24:38 AM »
Agree.  Instead of working together, opposing politicians demonized each other, creating confusion amongst the populous.  On top of that, there were some who claimed knowledge, when they had none.  This led to various conflicting practices.  The biggest loser was trust in the science (trust in politicians has been lost for quite awhile).

We know what side that came from, the politicization of this has done enormous damage and will leave us more vulnerable to any inevitable future pandemic.

it was terrible that the vaccinated were losing their jobs and being put in quarantine camps.

7 doctors hanged in 1947 for violating informed consent: Now COVID has broken the Nuremberg code
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zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2023, 04:37:45 AM »
That is correct, the peak of the latest wave is dropping.

YET.... even when the numbers are at the bottom of the wave, it is STILL WORSE than a bad flu season in terms of stress on the health systems.

Think on that for a moment...

be sure you get your booster to increase your chance of contracting covid, with all the attendant risks both ways. stop the spread.
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Rodius

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2023, 05:33:38 AM »
That is correct, the peak of the latest wave is dropping.

YET.... even when the numbers are at the bottom of the wave, it is STILL WORSE than a bad flu season in terms of stress on the health systems.

Think on that for a moment...

be sure you get your booster to increase your chance of contracting covid, with all the attendant risks both ways. stop the spread.

The vaccines dont really reduce the spread of Covid though.. this has been shown more than enough times already... but should you get it, the severity is significantly reduced and saves lives.

John Batteen

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2023, 06:09:16 AM »
I find myself somewhere in the middle of this I guess.  The whole thing was manipulated by anyone who had the power and opportunity to do so, that's for sure.  Obscene corporate profits were made.  I definitely think that a lot of governments were taking careful notes as to how their people responded to the lockdowns etc.  I'm open to the idea that a lot more people were vaccinated than necessary to make a profit.  I'm not sure I really think the vaccines are bad for anyone.  I'm open to the idea but if they were really that bad we'd be seeing it by now.  For me personally both times I got covid pre-vaccination, it permanently stair-stepped my autoimmune disease to a new level and I now have to take way more medication and can't work 40 hours a week anymore.  It's fucking awful.  The first vaccine dose I got I had a fairly strong immune response, fever sweats etc., but none of the doses after that seemed to do anything negative and I haven't had more than a head cold since.  Never bothered getting tested to see if it was covid or not.  No effect on my autoimmune disease.

But were all these draconian government responses really all about power and control?  I'm certainly open to the idea.  They definitely took notes for next time in case they decide to try something like that for another reason.  I do not trust the government any further than I can throw them.  But why would China, who already has absolute total control, go to such extreme lengths to control the spread?  If it's all about power and control, they already have ultimate power and control over their population.  They could do a little for show if they wanted to make it look like they were doing something.  But they stuck a stick in the spokes of their economic bicycle.  We're still recovering from supply chain shocks what 3 years later?  That didn't just cost us money, it cost China a giant pile of money.

Here's my theory why.  It was a calculation done by actuaries in an office in Beijing somewhere.  It was cheaper than doing nothing and letting it go free.  As far as the government is concerned, there are fates worse than death from covid.  If someone dies, they don't cost you any more money.  I went from working and contributing value to the economy and paying taxes to costing my government tens of thousands of dollars a month in medication and healthcare.  Covid brings out latent autoimmune disease and makes existing autoimmune disease worse.  Long covid is a form of autoimmune disease.  Autoimmune disease is fairly poorly understood, and extremely difficult and expensive to treat.  Complete remission is not common.  Most of these biologic drugs like Humira, Skyrizi, Taltz, Enbrel, Tremfya, cost $10k a month in the US.  They're cheaper elsewhere in the world but still incredibly expensive.

By locking down and slowing the spread until vaccine technology was available, they saved a ton of money by preventing a ton of people from getting autoimmune disease.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 06:17:37 AM by John Batteen »

zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2023, 06:12:05 AM »
That is correct, the peak of the latest wave is dropping.

YET.... even when the numbers are at the bottom of the wave, it is STILL WORSE than a bad flu season in terms of stress on the health systems.

Think on that for a moment...

be sure you get your booster to increase your chance of contracting covid, with all the attendant risks both ways. stop the spread.

The vaccines dont really reduce the spread of Covid though.. this has been shown more than enough times already... but should you get it, the severity is significantly reduced and saves lives.

boosters increase the risk of infection. that they reduce severity and save lives is a great talking point from 2021, can you provide scientific evidence that's true? apart from the 1 in 800 risk of a serious adverse event, all of the spike protein damage, and all the previous evidence of t-cell exhaustion and IgG4 antibodies which fits with scientific evidence surrounding antibody-dependent enhancement from vaccines that was known prior to the pandemic, you're fighting an uphill battle.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 06:27:27 AM by zenith »
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Rodius

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2023, 07:21:17 AM »
That is correct, the peak of the latest wave is dropping.

YET.... even when the numbers are at the bottom of the wave, it is STILL WORSE than a bad flu season in terms of stress on the health systems.

Think on that for a moment...

be sure you get your booster to increase your chance of contracting covid, with all the attendant risks both ways. stop the spread.

The vaccines dont really reduce the spread of Covid though.. this has been shown more than enough times already... but should you get it, the severity is significantly reduced and saves lives.

boosters increase the risk of infection. that they reduce severity and save lives is a great talking point from 2021, can you provide scientific evidence that's true? apart from the 1 in 800 risk of a serious adverse event, all of the spike protein damage, and all the previous evidence of t-cell exhaustion and IgG4 antibodies which fits with scientific evidence surrounding antibody-dependent enhancement from vaccines that was known prior to the pandemic, you're fighting an uphill battle.

I am not fighting you... there is no point when I agree with many of your points. But you keep bringin up videos of people who are not correct and are misleading... that will be something I keep reminding you about only for you to get all shitty even when I given a response to why.

Keep posting crap, I will keep highlight that is it such. If you dont like it, block me, ignore me, do whatever the hell you want. But stopping complaining about others pointing it out... and eventually you will resort to personal attacks and insults, it is pathethic.

SimonF92

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2023, 10:49:18 AM »
That is correct, the peak of the latest wave is dropping.

YET.... even when the numbers are at the bottom of the wave, it is STILL WORSE than a bad flu season in terms of stress on the health systems.

Think on that for a moment...

be sure you get your booster to increase your chance of contracting covid, with all the attendant risks both ways. stop the spread.

The vaccines dont really reduce the spread of Covid though.. this has been shown more than enough times already... but should you get it, the severity is significantly reduced and saves lives.

boosters increase the risk of infection. that they reduce severity and save lives is a great talking point from 2021, can you provide scientific evidence that's true? apart from the 1 in 800 risk of a serious adverse event, all of the spike protein damage, and all the previous evidence of t-cell exhaustion and IgG4 antibodies which fits with scientific evidence surrounding antibody-dependent enhancement from vaccines that was known prior to the pandemic, you're fighting an uphill battle.

Did you read the paper(s)? This was only demonstrated in mice and was only statistically significant after their SIXTH booster in (edit)12 weeks.

"All the previous evidence"

This is classic dunning-kruger confidence and the ability of people online to so confidently reference scientific findings they either dont understand or didnt read properly is the reason for all this nonsense.


==============================


This is probably the review you read (it provides no empirical data or analysis of its own, just conjecture):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10222767/


This is the mouse paper (the review references this as its main point, its the only time it manages to reference IgG4 in the context of covid):
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36338436/



This is the human paper (theres nothing about T cell exhaustion even though they detect changes in IgG4):
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.ade2798
« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 10:56:17 AM by SimonF92 »
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zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2023, 12:00:00 PM »
i've been posting papers for a couple years in the other thread, rodius is aware of that. why don't you go through all 166 references from that paper and get back to us dunning-kruger.
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zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2023, 12:42:53 PM »
I am not fighting you... there is no point when I agree with many of your points. But you keep bringin up videos of people who are not correct and are misleading... that will be something I keep reminding you about only for you to get all shitty even when I given a response to why.

Keep posting crap, I will keep highlight that is it such. If you dont like it, block me, ignore me, do whatever the hell you want. But stopping complaining about others pointing it out... and eventually you will resort to personal attacks and insults, it is pathethic.

dr. john campbell cites his sources which is more than can be said about you. when you were asked to explain how he was wrong per excess deaths we get crickets. you're not the arbiter of truth. out of hand dismissals and gaslighting aren't valid arguments.

Covid still significant as mortality rate jumps
https://www.theactuary.com/2023/04/19/covid-still-significant-mortality-rate-jumps

"The first three months of 2023 saw the UK’s worst mortality rate since the second wave of the Covid pandemic.

The Continuous Mortality Investigation’s (CMI) Q1 2023 update reveals that 20,000 excess deaths were reported between January and March – the highest number since the pandemic’s second wave in Q1 2021, when they topped 30,000.

It reports that, between January and March, 8,600 deaths registered in the UK mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate. This accounts for around 40% of total excess deaths.

A complementary CMI update for week 13 of 2023 shows that there were around 171,600 more deaths from all causes than expected between the start of the pandemic and the end of March 2023. Of these, 72,900 occurred in 2020, 47,500 in 2021, 31,000 in 2022 and 20,200 in the first quarter of 2023.

The number of deaths registered in England and Wales in week 13 of 2023 was 10,374 –1,210 higher than if mortality rates had been the same as in the 13th week of 2019 and equivalent to 12% more deaths than expected.

The number of deaths registered in England and Wales for which Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate was 634 in the 13th week of this year."

« Last Edit: June 27, 2023, 12:59:24 PM by zenith »
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Rodius

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2023, 01:23:42 PM »
I am not fighting you... there is no point when I agree with many of your points. But you keep bringin up videos of people who are not correct and are misleading... that will be something I keep reminding you about only for you to get all shitty even when I given a response to why.

Keep posting crap, I will keep highlight that is it such. If you dont like it, block me, ignore me, do whatever the hell you want. But stopping complaining about others pointing it out... and eventually you will resort to personal attacks and insults, it is pathethic.

dr. john campbell cites his sources which is more than can be said about you. when you were asked to explain how he was wrong per excess deaths we get crickets. you're not the arbiter of truth. out of hand dismissals and gaslighting aren't valid arguments.

Covid still significant as mortality rate jumps
https://www.theactuary.com/2023/04/19/covid-still-significant-mortality-rate-jumps

"The first three months of 2023 saw the UK’s worst mortality rate since the second wave of the Covid pandemic.

The Continuous Mortality Investigation’s (CMI) Q1 2023 update reveals that 20,000 excess deaths were reported between January and March – the highest number since the pandemic’s second wave in Q1 2021, when they topped 30,000.

It reports that, between January and March, 8,600 deaths registered in the UK mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate. This accounts for around 40% of total excess deaths.

A complementary CMI update for week 13 of 2023 shows that there were around 171,600 more deaths from all causes than expected between the start of the pandemic and the end of March 2023. Of these, 72,900 occurred in 2020, 47,500 in 2021, 31,000 in 2022 and 20,200 in the first quarter of 2023.

The number of deaths registered in England and Wales in week 13 of 2023 was 10,374 –1,210 higher than if mortality rates had been the same as in the 13th week of 2019 and equivalent to 12% more deaths than expected.

The number of deaths registered in England and Wales for which Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate was 634 in the 13th week of this year."

OMG.... every time you and others mention excess deaths, someone typically responds to that (with evidence and links) and you brush by it because you disagree with it.

You WANT your point of view to be right, so it will be right. I will happily change my mind should a better explanation turn up.

zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2023, 01:32:07 PM »
as far as i'm aware nobody has offered up and over-arching explanation except you - all covid. others, including myself, have said there's a likely a whole matrix of reasons and that vaccines are likely part of the picture. that's where you go cognitive dissonance, despite all the scientific evidence, and melt-down. it's amazing that it's not being studied, don't you think? dr. john campbell is flabbergasted as are others.
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The Walrus

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2023, 02:10:48 PM »
I find myself somewhere in the middle of this I guess.  The whole thing was manipulated by anyone who had the power and opportunity to do so, that's for sure.  Obscene corporate profits were made.  I definitely think that a lot of governments were taking careful notes as to how their people responded to the lockdowns etc.  I'm open to the idea that a lot more people were vaccinated than necessary to make a profit.  I'm not sure I really think the vaccines are bad for anyone.  I'm open to the idea but if they were really that bad we'd be seeing it by now.  For me personally both times I got covid pre-vaccination, it permanently stair-stepped my autoimmune disease to a new level and I now have to take way more medication and can't work 40 hours a week anymore.  It's fucking awful.  The first vaccine dose I got I had a fairly strong immune response, fever sweats etc., but none of the doses after that seemed to do anything negative and I haven't had more than a head cold since.  Never bothered getting tested to see if it was covid or not.  No effect on my autoimmune disease.

But were all these draconian government responses really all about power and control?  I'm certainly open to the idea.  They definitely took notes for next time in case they decide to try something like that for another reason.  I do not trust the government any further than I can throw them.  But why would China, who already has absolute total control, go to such extreme lengths to control the spread?  If it's all about power and control, they already have ultimate power and control over their population.  They could do a little for show if they wanted to make it look like they were doing something.  But they stuck a stick in the spokes of their economic bicycle.  We're still recovering from supply chain shocks what 3 years later?  That didn't just cost us money, it cost China a giant pile of money.

Here's my theory why.  It was a calculation done by actuaries in an office in Beijing somewhere.  It was cheaper than doing nothing and letting it go free.  As far as the government is concerned, there are fates worse than death from covid.  If someone dies, they don't cost you any more money.  I went from working and contributing value to the economy and paying taxes to costing my government tens of thousands of dollars a month in medication and healthcare.  Covid brings out latent autoimmune disease and makes existing autoimmune disease worse.  Long covid is a form of autoimmune disease.  Autoimmune disease is fairly poorly understood, and extremely difficult and expensive to treat.  Complete remission is not common.  Most of these biologic drugs like Humira, Skyrizi, Taltz, Enbrel, Tremfya, cost $10k a month in the US.  They're cheaper elsewhere in the world but still incredibly expensive.

By locking down and slowing the spread until vaccine technology was available, they saved a ton of money by preventing a ton of people from getting autoimmune disease.

There was definitely money to be made during and because of the pandemic:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2021/04/06/meet-the-40-new-billionaires-who-got-rich-fighting-covid-19/?sh=4a1ed56617e5

But it was not just those in the medical field that benefitted:

https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/wealth/billionaires-fared-during-coronavirus-crisis/

Rodius

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2023, 02:11:57 PM »
as far as i'm aware nobody has offered up and over-arching explanation except you - all covid. others, including myself, have said there's a likely a whole matrix of reasons and that vaccines are likely part of the picture. that's where you go cognitive dissonance, despite all the scientific evidence, and melt-down. it's amazing that it's not being studied, don't you think? dr. john campbell is flabbergasted as are others.

Dr John Campbell is not reporting accurately... so, yeah, who cares what he thinks.

The statement of ALL Covid... I dont give answers like that. Covid is the main cause of death from Covid though.... vaccines are not killing all that many people.

Covid causes multiple issues with organs, long Covid, just so many problems post Covid and that isnt being covered all that much although I stopped looking so maybe it is. It probably is.

Vaccines... I mean, someone responded to the study you just mentioned and explained why that study isnt much more than saying this might be worth more study.

But you, rather than address that response, focus on me for some reason.

I said this earlier... vaccines do a job, they work in regards to reduced severity. This is all proven as well. That isnt really a discussion point with you though.

You want to hate on vaccines, and when someone points out a flaw in your approach, you go quiet on that but loud on me. It will push that post down so maybe that answer will not be seen as much.

Others have mentioned the excess issue several times, Oren, Kassy, myself, and others, yet you say I am the only one when that is not true. They give more detailed answers, they provide links to evidence, everything you ask for from me but you dont even remember their responses and you say it is only me.

Anyway, you can keep ranting, I am done for now. Feel free to scroll the threads to find other people saying the same things as me, and do scroll up just a little bit to read the answer from SimonF92.

nadir

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2023, 02:39:52 PM »

Well that is nice. Some people are interested in the political side of the discussions and that can all go there.

So this can remain open in case anything interesting and or scientific comes up.

So the CDC altering the definition of vaccine at the exact same time when breakthrough infections became apparent is politics or science?

No need to respond. I see it as politics and corruption. Moving the discussion out of here.

About time....

Well that’s right. A new thread has been created more focused on politics. And my point is that the CDC updating the definition of vaccine on Sep 1, 2021 was based on the political situation of that moment, not on science. But if someone can provide evidence that such a relevant and timely update was purely on scientific grounds, we can continue the conversation there, in the scientific thread where you are a real luminary alongside Pasteur and Jenner.

zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2023, 03:10:20 PM »

Dr John Campbell is not reporting accurately... so, yeah, who cares what he thinks.

The statement of ALL Covid... I dont give answers like that. Covid is the main cause of death from Covid though.... vaccines are not killing all that many people.

Covid causes multiple issues with organs, long Covid, just so many problems post Covid and that isnt being covered all that much although I stopped looking so maybe it is. It probably is.

Vaccines... I mean, someone responded to the study you just mentioned and explained why that study isnt much more than saying this might be worth more study.

But you, rather than address that response, focus on me for some reason.

I said this earlier... vaccines do a job, they work in regards to reduced severity. This is all proven as well. That isnt really a discussion point with you though.

You want to hate on vaccines, and when someone points out a flaw in your approach, you go quiet on that but loud on me. It will push that post down so maybe that answer will not be seen as much.

Others have mentioned the excess issue several times, Oren, Kassy, myself, and others, yet you say I am the only one when that is not true. They give more detailed answers, they provide links to evidence, everything you ask for from me but you dont even remember their responses and you say it is only me.

Anyway, you can keep ranting, I am done for now. Feel free to scroll the threads to find other people saying the same things as me, and do scroll up just a little bit to read the answer from SimonF92.

how is dr. campbell reporting inaccurately?

"Covid is the main cause of death from Covid though...." oh dear.

"Vaccines... I mean, someone responded to the study you just mentioned and explained why that study isnt much more than saying this might be worth more study."

everything is always worth more study as science never proves anything. the study, which i had posted upthread and SimonF92 clearly missed, has 166 references to other studies. SimonF92 tried to dismiss it as conjecture but that's ridiculous. he then went on to self-own as he posted a human study, which was one of the references, that found evidence of igG4. at the same time he believed the study was supposed to mention t-cell exhaustion (different studies) yet he didn't mention antibody-dependent enhancement which is also a reference to different studies.

but i'm the dunning-kruger case.

"You want to hate on vaccines" right, you got me. such a subtle, nuanced argument.
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SimonF92

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2023, 07:21:49 PM »
Post the paper then. Post the paper, and post the figure.

Did you read that paper?

This is why I love science. Because irrespective of how much you want to rant, you can still be called upon to provide evidence. And if you can't provide it, your statement is flawed
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zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2023, 08:09:01 PM »
i'd already posted it upthread (scroll up to my first post here), you posted the same one though. it's a meta-analysis but whatever (that makes it more robust), it aligns with lots of other papers i've posted over time in the other thread.

here are couple recent ones i posted:
Evidence of exhausted lymphocytes after the third anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccine dose in cancer patients
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/oncology/articles/10.3389/fonc.2022.975980/full

Risk of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) among Those Up-to-Date and Not Up-to-Date on COVID-19 Vaccination
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.09.23290893v1

you tried to jump me in the other thread over myocarditis too, that didn't work out for you either.


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SimonF92

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2023, 09:39:25 AM »
Neither of those papers address your claims.

One of them is in cancer patients who have drastically different immune systems to healthy individuals. It also has a concerningly low sample size, which the authors acknowledge.

The second is fundamentally irrelevant to your original point. And it's in rxiv meaning it hasn't passed peer review.

If you perceive being "jumped" as being called out on your scientific claims by either being rebutted, or asked for evidence, then you shouldn't be making those claims. Yesterday I got slaughtered over a presentation I made to some colleagues, today I am better for it
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zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2023, 05:25:17 PM »
Neither of those papers address your claims.

One of them is in cancer patients who have drastically different immune systems to healthy individuals. It also has a concerningly low sample size, which the authors acknowledge.

The second is fundamentally irrelevant to your original point. And it's in rxiv meaning it hasn't passed peer review.

If you perceive being "jumped" as being called out on your scientific claims by either being rebutted, or asked for evidence, then you shouldn't be making those claims. Yesterday I got slaughtered over a presentation I made to some colleagues, today I am better for it

you're allowed to look this stuff up for yourself, there are plenty of studies and the evidence is piling up, much of it was previously understood as we've been using non-sterilizing vaccines for respiratory viruses like the flu for quite awhile. again, i was posting studies in the other thread.

there's a reason there were warnings like this: https://www.voanews.com/a/eu-drug-regulator-warns-against-overuse-of-covid-booster-shots/6395174.html

Duration of mRNA vaccine protection against SARS-CoV-2 Omicron BA.1 and BA.2 subvariants in Qatar
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-30895-3

Duration of immune protection of SARS-CoV-2 natural infection against reinfection
https://academic.oup.com/jtm/article/29/8/taac109/6731972?login=false

Long COVID risk falls only slightly after vaccination, huge study shows
Results suggest that vaccines offer less protection against lingering symptoms than expected.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01453-0

SARS-CoV-2 vaccine effectiveness against infection, symptomatic and severe COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis
https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-022-07418-y

it's debatable whether young healthy people should be vaccinated for covid at all but it's bizarre they're being vaccinated more than twice when any benefits have been accrued by then and boosters only provide the attendant risks.

COVID-19 mRNA booster vaccine induces transient CD8+ T effector cell responses while conserving the memory pool for subsequent reactivation
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-32324-x

constantly stimulating your immune system both by vaccination and infection brings risks and there's plenty of uncertainty.

Updated Insights into the T Cell-Mediated Immune Response against SARS-CoV-2: A Step towards Efficient and Reliable Vaccines
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/11/1/101

IgG4 Antibodies Induced by Repeated Vaccination May Generate Immune Tolerance to the SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/11/5/991

"Increased IgG4 synthesis due to repeated mRNA vaccination with high antigen concentrations may also cause autoimmune diseases, and promote cancer growth and autoimmune myocarditis in susceptible individuals."

"Finally, these negative outcomes are not expected to affect all people who have received these mRNA vaccines. Individuals with genetic susceptibility, immune deficiencies, and comorbidities are probably the most likely to be affected. However, this gives rise to a disturbing paradox—if people who are the most affected by the COVID-19 disease (the elderly, diabetics, hypertensive, and immunocompromised people like those with HIV) are also more susceptible to suffering the negative effects of repeated mRNA vaccination, is it then justified to booster them? As Omicron subvariants have been demonstrated to be less pathogenic [133,134,135,136,137], and mRNA vaccines do not protect against re-infection [14,138], clinicians should be aware of the possible detrimental effects on the immune system by administering boosters."

 

« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 05:31:54 PM by zenith »
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nadir

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2023, 12:07:24 AM »
Dr Hotez is disinformation himself. As Fauci is too.

Instead you have Rodius and friends complaining about Dr Campbell. Even if occasionally flawed, Dr. Campbell has shown integrity, honesty, and care for real data.

However, look at this clown. Will Rodius, Oren, Shared Humanity, Vox-Mundi, Mr. Rathbone, Archimid. the goodole Sam, complain about this guy?





zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2023, 02:48:22 AM »
Essential Reading for the Dissident, the Disenfranchised, the Disillusioned
https://brownstone.org/articles/essential-reading-for-the-dissident-the-disenfranchised-the-disillusioned/

"John Stapleton’s incredible new book Australia Breaks Apart has a surreal quality to it. He taps into the dissonance, the discord, and the disillusionment of those among us who were able, or who dared, to step outside the wall-to-wall propaganda and look at it in real time, or back at it later, in horror.

Through the book’s central character, Old Alex (a retired journalist, coincidentally just like the author), wave after wave of recognition and acknowledgement of pain and anguish and confusion and foreboding wash over the reader, like a soothing balm for the still raw wounds inflicted by our political leaders. It’s just as well – in between the passages where we crawl inside Old Alex’s head, and hear and feel the visions and the dreams for a country so utterly changed, Stapleton catalogues in excruciating detail the things that were done to us. It’s confronting.

Some of the things I knew about, many others I didn’t, thanks to the suffocating censorship of our complicit mainstream media. Still others I knew about, but had tried to forget.

Reading it is like reading Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago – page after page of open-mouthed shock at the things humans can do to one another and the things that power can corrupt. It’s un-put-downable and un-pick-upable at the same time.

It’s essential reading for the dissident, the disenfranchised, the disillusioned. We’re not alone, our eyes were not deceiving us, it was not all just a nightmare from which we will one day wake up. It actually happened. Its legacy will be a millstone Australia will carry for decades. This book won’t make up for the tragedies of lives and livelihoods shattered by wilfully stubborn governments and petty tyrants, but it will certainly help.

... But helpful as it is for the victims and the protesters to have this book, those who need to read it the most will find it hard going. The laptop class, the ones who learned a new recipe for sourdough, or how to crochet, while truckies and cashiers from the indentured servant class waited on their every need – they are the ones who need to read this book.

The ones who happily observed that the traffic was lighter and the carbon dioxide lower, while mourners grieved alone, banned from attending the funeral. Every single nurse who made a dance video. Every jab clinic manager tallying the day’s injectees and calculating the bonus incentive payment.

What pangs of self-recognition will they find when they read of humans mistreating each other? If they don’t feel any then they could read the whole thing and not be any the wiser, or indeed could take whatever message they want to take from it. If they do feel the pangs of shame, it will take a heroic effort of acceptance and repentance to get through to the end.

There will even be some, the scoffers who only consume a vegan ‘news’ diet from the ABC or the free-to-air presstitutes, who will find the cognitive dissonance simply too much to deal with and toss the book away in anger and disgust. Some of this group would literally never have heard of the Canadian Trucker protest or the Hancock WhatsApp messages scandal, such was the media silence.

Let’s assume some of that group do read it. Where will they find themselves afterwards? My guess is that they will find themselves looking for a scapegoat, an excuse, ‘extenuating circumstances,’ to cover their shame. Alas, none will be found."
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SeanAU

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2023, 03:21:03 AM »
Essential Reading for the Dissident, the Disenfranchised, the Disillusioned
https://brownstone.org/articles/essential-reading-for-the-dissident-the-disenfranchised-the-disillusioned/

"John Stapleton’s incredible new book Australia Breaks Apart has a surreal quality to it. He taps into the dissonance, the discord, and the disillusionment of those among us who were able, or who dared, to step outside the wall-to-wall propaganda and look at it in real time, or back at it later, in horror.


Chapter 18
https://johnstapletonjournalism.com/royal-commission-or-nuremberg-2-0-australia-breaks-apart-excerpt-chapter-18-factcheck-this-bombshell-revelations-a-sense-of-place-magazine-26-june-2023/

Under normal circumstances the liar is defeated by reality, for which there is no substitute; no matter how large the tissue of falsehood that an experienced liar has to offer, it will never be large enough, even if he enlists the help of computers, to cover the immensity of factuality. The liar, who may get away with any number of single falsehoods, will find it impossible to get away with lying on principle.
Hannah Arendt. Author of The Origins of Totalitarianism.
[ Well that theory no longer holds true today. ]


There is no act of treachery or meanness of which a political party is not capable; for in politics there is no honour.
Benjamin Disraeli. Author and former British Prime Minister.


As the Leonard Cohen song goes:
    “Everybody knows that the boat is leaking,
      Everybody knows that the captain lied.”

It's wealth, constantly seeking more wealth, to better seek still more wealth. Building wealth off of destruction. That's what's consuming the world. And is driving humans crazy at the same time.

Rodius

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2023, 05:05:50 AM »
Dr Hotez is disinformation himself. As Fauci is too.

Instead you have Rodius and friends complaining about Dr Campbell. Even if occasionally flawed, Dr. Campbell has shown integrity, honesty, and care for real data.

However, look at this clown. Will Rodius, Oren, Shared Humanity, Vox-Mundi, Mr. Rathbone, Archimid. the goodole Sam, complain about this guy?



The first 20 seconds is enough to know the doctor is spreading false info if ivermectin is his answer to Covid. But hey, there are A LOT of people out there who spread wrong or misleading information, it is my job and nor do I care enough to counter them all, I have a life to live and I dont want to spend it like that.

Better to understand the information as best as you can, and ignore the obviously wrong completely. If people still think ivermectin fixes the Covid problem, then there is no helping them, so why argue the point?

oren

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2023, 07:26:53 AM »
However, look at this clown. Will Rodius, Oren, Shared Humanity, Vox-Mundi, Mr. Rathbone, Archimid. the goodole Sam, complain about this guy?
Oren will certainly not complain, as he doesn't watch divisive, biased and attention-seeking videos, which describes nearly all videos. Boring too. Waste of time as well as opening the gates to rabbit holes.

zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2023, 03:09:55 PM »
does oren read scientific studies? only if they fit the conclusion oren begins with and tells the story oren wants to hear because oren is scientific. everything else is dismissed as oren is truly objective, oren even speaks of oren in the third person.
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster

oren

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2023, 04:21:45 PM »
I do read some scientific studies, not all though. And when I do I notice how often in the Covid threads studies are quoted out of context (e.g. see Simon's comment to you above) and as a simple means of argumet by exhaustion. Consider me exhausted, it's a useless argument anyway, as the other party is not interested in finding the facts, just in cowing into submission by all means.
As Rodius posted previously, debunking false or blown-up claims takes lots of energy and time with little benefit. I'll pass.

zenith

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2023, 04:33:29 PM »
Projection
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/basics/projection

"Projection is the process of displacing one’s feelings onto a different person, animal, or object. The term is most commonly used to describe defensive projection—attributing one’s own unacceptable urges to another. For example, if someone continuously bullies and ridicules a peer about his insecurities, the bully might be projecting his own struggle with self-esteem onto the other person.

...What Is Projection?
Unconscious discomfort can lead people to attribute unacceptable feelings or impulses to someone else to avoid confronting them. Projection allows the difficult trait to be addressed without the individual fully recognizing it in themselves."

UNDERSTANDING DEFLECTION IN PSYCHOLOGY AND EFFECTIVE WAYS TO RESPOND
https://manhattanmentalhealthcounseling.com/understanding-deflection-in-psychology-and-effective-ways-to-respond/

"Deflection is a defense mechanism characterized by redirecting a conversation away from a challenging topic or issue to something less emotionally charged. It can manifest in various ways, such as changing the subject, asking a question, making a joke, or even becoming defensive or aggressive.

Deflection is often associated with denial and blame-shifting, which involve evading unpleasant thoughts or feelings and attributing responsibility for undesired outcomes to others.

However, deflection differs from denial, as denial implies outright refusal to acknowledge a problem, whereas deflection merely redirects the conversation without necessarily denying the issue’s existence."
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster

nadir

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2023, 07:05:49 PM »
However, look at this clown. Will Rodius, Oren, Shared Humanity, Vox-Mundi, Mr. Rathbone, Archimid. the goodole Sam, complain about this guy?
Oren will certainly not complain, as he doesn't watch divisive, biased and attention-seeking videos, which describes nearly all videos. Boring too. Waste of time as well as opening the gates to rabbit holes.
😂😂😂 (laughing with you, not at you)

No problem, but just something about this video: even when it is presented as part of a show that you may dislike more or less, this is not the typical Jimmy Dore video. In fact he’s just presenting the work of others that have gone thru the archives and have collected all these incredibly contradictory, very politicized, in fact truly divisive and misleading Peter Hotez comments. These are historical documents. This guy was one of the favorite “experts” in mainstream media. Same collections exist about Fauci. Contradictions, lies, total lack of integrity. Say whatever you want about videos, Oren, but these are truly historical records.

oren

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2023, 07:19:53 PM »
I'll take your word for it.

Neven

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2023, 09:49:41 PM »
Oren, don't watch this video:

The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

nadir

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Re: The implications of SARS-CoV-2
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2023, 01:21:25 AM »
This incredible paper is scientific but it has strong ethic and political implications

The “viral” Denmark paper is just incredible.

For a better explanation: