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grixm

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Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« on: December 13, 2023, 04:51:49 PM »
Became curious about this. What are some candidates for people whose actions have led to the biggest reduction of GHG emissions? Whether it's activists spreading awareness, politicians that successfully pushed climate-friendly policy, scientists/engineers inventing climate-friendly tech, or businesspeople getting the market to adopt those techs.

Any names that deserve more recognition?

Neven

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2023, 05:10:38 PM »
Vlad the Impaler?
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E. Smith

etienne

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2023, 05:36:37 PM »
I guess Oppenheimer was much more efficient. Furthermore Vlad was before FF were used.

More seriously, I think we can't tell yet because we don't know for sure what will be the solutions. For example we don't know yet if Tesla is a benediction or a curse.

zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2023, 05:49:07 PM »
it would probably be something banal like Owens Corning fiberglass insulation, or any other insulating material for buildings. it's a tough one as it's all industrial civilization and that's fossil fuels.

it's easier to pick out the biggest villains like Thomas Midgley Jr.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2023, 05:51:38 PM »
Vlad the Impaler?
Vlad ? - a bit player.

Reduced population = less CO2 emissions.

Stalin tried very hard to reduce the population of Russia in the 1930's (purges), as did Mao with his cultural revolution in the 1960's or did it last into the 70's?
But Mao also said "cut down the forests to make steel", so it was done.

But when looking at "Who has done the most for the climate in history?" & ignoring grixm's stated intention for the thread, my contender is **Exxon and its previous incarnations, who knowingly pushed oil & gas forward while knowing since the 1980s or even earlier the consequences of doing so.

**Exxon under US law is a legal entity - a "person".


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nadir

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2023, 05:57:02 PM »
The guy who invented the condom?

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2023, 06:00:12 PM »
Columbus.

It didn't last beyond the industrial revolution, but the depopulation of the Americas that he triggered in 1492 sucked an awful lot of CO2 out of the atmosphere as abandoned cultivation returned to forest.

zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2023, 06:01:12 PM »
The guy who invented the condom?

 ;D 8)
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zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2023, 06:02:42 PM »
Columbus.

It didn't last beyond the industrial revolution, but the depopulation of the Americas that he triggered in 1492 sucked an awful lot of CO2 out of the atmosphere as abandoned cultivation returned to forest.

then the plague, the black death, gets a mention too.
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Neven

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2023, 06:20:07 PM »
We need a cut-off date, people.
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zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2023, 06:36:27 PM »
when do the aliens arrive?
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Neven

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2023, 07:17:24 PM »
I think it's too soon to answer this question. Ask again when CO2 starts going down.
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grixm

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2023, 07:42:30 PM »
I guess it makes more sense if I rephrase: Who has done the most for the climate, on purpose (so after climate change was discovered, and with the intent to do good)

El Cid

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2023, 07:43:33 PM »
Columbus.

It didn't last beyond the industrial revolution, but the depopulation of the Americas that he triggered in 1492 sucked an awful lot of CO2 out of the atmosphere as abandoned cultivation returned to forest.

I think you are right! He helped usher in the Little Ice Age by indirectly killing of most Native Americans.

I also like "the inventor of the condom" although the researchers behind the pill are just as important I guess.

Neven

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2023, 08:59:09 PM »
I guess it makes more sense if I rephrase: Who has done the most for the climate, on purpose (so after climate change was discovered, and with the intent to do good)

One of the problems is Jevons Paradox. Someone comes up with an invention or an improved product, and this becomes so popular that it negates the efficiency gains. So, in my view, it couldn't be someone like Elon Musk or Al Gore, never mind the fact that Musk doesn't give a rat's ass about the climate, and Gore used climate to get in the history books and boost his shares, functioning as controlled opposition (just like Greta).

So, as long as you have a system that is geared towards economic growth for the sake of wealth concentration, the problem won't be solved conclusively, and thus it's impossible to single out someone as the biggest contributor to solving AGW.

If I would have to vote, I would be inclined to say James Hansen.

If you ask me who could turn out to become this person? It would have to be a really serious person who is very principled and doesn't compromise. Someone outside the system. I don't know, someone like Roger Hallam?

But here we go again, projecting ourselves onto personalities, looking for leaders, turning fallible human beings into heroes that are easy to bring down. It's the kind of thinking that stems from a culture that causes AGW.
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zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2023, 09:20:26 PM »
the road not taken...

THE HISTORY OF SUPERINSULATED
HOUSES IN NORTH AMERICA
https://bcbec.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/5-History-of-Superinsulation-Compatibility-Mode.pdf
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Freegrass

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2023, 10:17:22 PM »
Enrico Fermi? His nuclear reactors produced a lot of clean energy.
90% of the world is religious, but somehow "love thy neighbour" became "fuck thy neighbours", if they don't agree with your point of view.

WTF happened?

kassy

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2023, 10:29:06 PM »
Think he wasn´t solving AGW just energy in general?
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

kassy

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2023, 10:47:05 PM »
For the current AGW problem i was going to nominate nobody. Many scientists contributed knowledge but what is it worth without action?

If you are looking for concrete action it´s almost all haphazard. We could have run a dedicated science program for decades. We could have had better building and isolation standards for decades etc.

The one thing that comes to mind is Paul Crutzen and the other scientists who demonstrated how the CFCs were destroying ozone.

Then the world acted and banned them so see it can be done.

The joke here is that the US was going to block all this because why change a thing but they got lobbied by 3M IIRC that they could make good money on this and thus the world was saved.  :)

Pick your favorite!

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El Cid

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2023, 10:57:40 PM »
So, as long as you have a system that is geared towards economic growth for the sake of wealth concentration, the problem won't be solved conclusively, and thus it's impossible to single out someone as the biggest contributor to solving AGW.

If I would have to vote, I would be inclined to say James Hansen.

That's self delusion. It's not the system, it's the people. People are greedy egoistic bastards, ourselves included.

Other than that I also thought about Hansen. He kept hitting the drum when others wouldn't listen...

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2023, 12:15:47 AM »
Hansen has certainly put a lot of effort in. He was there when climate was first shown to  be changing, and his work was among the most important in demonstrating it. Has it actually reduced CO2 though.

I'm not sure who is important for it, but I'd pick someone in the field of solar cell development. Solar power got a lot cheaper than I thought was physically possible 30 years ago and I think thats the biggest game changer, in terms of how high CO2 will peak at.

Rodius

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2023, 03:03:49 AM »
Hansen has certainly put a lot of effort in. He was there when climate was first shown to  be changing, and his work was among the most important in demonstrating it. Has it actually reduced CO2 though.

I'm not sure who is important for it, but I'd pick someone in the field of solar cell development. Solar power got a lot cheaper than I thought was physically possible 30 years ago and I think thats the biggest game changer, in terms of how high CO2 will peak at.

Solar isn't solving the problem because it perpetuates the way we live, which is unsustainable.

Anything to do with maintaining energy levels that perpetuate our current economic model isn't something I would consider helpful to fixing the problem.

Since my vote would go to anyone who is able to change our destructive use of capitalism doesn't exist, I don think we have an iota of a chance of solving the problem.

At best, I would only consider activists who focus on changing our economic methods and who want regrowth and minimalism.

zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2023, 05:04:14 AM »
"what fundamentally changes the game and what people don't want to hear, and i'm coming to this all the time, and people say - don't talk to us like that -because it's just a non-starter, but for me this is the only starter, we have to use less."

Surviving Progress (2011) - excerpt Vaclav Smil

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Rodius

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2023, 07:56:56 AM »
"what fundamentally changes the game and what people don't want to hear, and i'm coming to this all the time, and people say - don't talk to us like that -because it's just a non-starter, but for me this is the only starter, we have to use less."

Surviving Progress (2011) - excerpt Vaclav Smil


I would vote for this guy :)

zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2023, 06:12:54 PM »
imagine if we had better urban design, more walkable and better public transit, superinsulated buildings and smaller cars - we'd have it half beat. then, maybe, resources could be directed toward the developing nations to develop intelligently. intelligently directed jevons paradox. i'm not holding my breath, we're still dreaming of colonizing space. "whitey on the moon" - gil scott-heron

this is the best ted talk i've seen, he was never invited back.  ;)

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John_the_Younger

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2023, 08:40:26 PM »
The guy who invented the condom?

 ;D 8)
The gal who invented "No!" (and her sister, brother, mother and father who enforced it)
Wait: what did you say? ... You mean "no" was an option before the 1980's?

zenith

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2023, 11:08:53 PM »
how wholesome. 70% of internet traffic is porn. there are 8 billion people going at it, swiping left or right, where are these wholesome, puritan, 'murican values. they're not displayed by any leaders or media. reality is what it is, at a minimum wrap that rascal.
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SeanAU

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2023, 02:12:14 AM »
That's a dumb useless question.

But a good analogy as to why nothing has been done so far. People are stupid. Ask dumb questions and then other stupid people try to answer them.

Just useless. A total waste of time and energy. That's people for you. Present company included.

Sorry. But that's the honest truth of it. I have no time for time wasters. And useless people just taking up space and continually getting in the way.
It's wealth, constantly seeking more wealth, to better seek still more wealth. Building wealth off of destruction. That's what's consuming the world. And is driving humans crazy at the same time.

nadir

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2023, 04:02:33 AM »
So, as long as you have a system that is geared towards economic growth for the sake of wealth concentration, the problem won't be solved conclusively, and thus it's impossible to single out someone as the biggest contributor to solving AGW.

If I would have to vote, I would be inclined to say James Hansen.

That's self delusion. It's not the system, it's the people. People are greedy egoistic bastards, ourselves included.

Other than that I also thought about Hansen. He kept hitting the drum when others wouldn't listen...

The problem with Hansen is he sometimes falls in exaggeration he ended developing as a “Scientist-Activist”. Bad idea. That’s counterproductive.

I recently half-watched an interview of him with Paul Beckwith no less, and it was pretty difficult to watch at times, although he puts forward a lot of truths from scientific results between occasional exaggerations from his activist side.



But still, I reckon he should be one individual on the top of the list.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 04:15:18 AM by nadir »

Sebastian Jones

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2023, 04:39:01 AM »
I might suggest the de-growth people, starting with Dennis and Donella Meadows and the group who produced 'Limits To Growth' for the Club of Rome.

Neven and Radius are correct: So long as we continue to pursue growth it won't matter how cleverly we develop emissions free ways of growing, climate heating associated with growth will always triumph.

It sucks, but it true.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2023, 08:30:10 PM »
I guess it makes more sense if I rephrase: Who has done the most for the climate, on purpose (so after climate change was discovered, and with the intent to do good)

ChatGPT lists Greta Thunberg, Wangari Maathai and Sir David Attenborough, along with Elon Musk, as individuals who have done the most for the environment in recent history.
Quote
Elon Musk has made significant contributions to the environment through his work in sustainable energy and transportation. As the CEO of Tesla, he has been instrumental in popularizing electric vehicles and advancing the development of renewable energy technologies. Tesla's electric cars have helped reduce greenhouse gas emissions and air pollution by providing a cleaner alternative to traditional gasoline-powered vehicles.
 
Additionally, Musk has been involved in the development of solar energy through his company SolarCity, which was later integrated into Tesla. SolarCity has been a leader in the residential solar industry, making solar power more accessible and affordable for homeowners.

I say:
Since its inception, Tesla has led the world away from ICE vehicles and onto a sustainable energy pathway.  Musk has called fossil fuels “the worst experiment in human history,” and since fossil fuels are not, by definition, “sustainable,” the world will be forced to find alternatives at some point, and now is better than later.
 
While legacy automakers have failed to make the switch to volume manufacturing of EVs, the world’s best selling vehicle is now a BEV for the first time thanks to Tesla.
 
Tesla is a leader in utility scale clean energy battery storage and grid control, including several of the largest installations in the world in Australia.  Also of home battery systems, and combining them into Virtual Power Plants. (Australia, California, Texas.)
 
   —-
Musk’s SpaceX has made space more accessible and more affordable, launching satellites which monitor earth’s environment in ways that were not available before, making new climate actions possible.
 
SpaceX launches world's 1st satellite that can pinpoint carbon emissions from space
https://www.space.com/spacex-launch-ghgsat-carbon-emissions-satellite
 
Sentinel-6 Michael Freilich: This satellite, launched in November 2020, is part of the European Copernicus program and is dedicated to monitoring sea level rise and ocean circulation.
 
NASA's Earth Observing System (EOS) satellites: SpaceX has launched multiple EOS satellites, such as the EOS-01 (formerly known as RISAT-2BR2), which are used for various environmental monitoring purposes, including land use, natural disasters, and climate change.
 
RADARSAT Constellation: SpaceX has launched satellites for the Canadian Space Agency's RADARSAT Constellation Mission, which is used for maritime surveillance, disaster management, and ecosystem monitoring.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 08:40:13 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Espen

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2023, 09:40:56 PM »
Which person has done the most to reduce the number of people?

ChatGPT lists

Mao Zedong: Mao Zedong, the leader of China from 1949 to 1976, is estimated to have been responsible for the deaths of approximately 60 million people1. Many of these deaths were due to starvation during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution1.
Joseph Stalin
Joseph Stalin: Stalin, the leader of the Soviet Union from 1929 to 1953, is estimated to have been responsible for the deaths of approximately 40 million people1. These deaths were due to a combination of deliberate famine, purges within his own party, and forced labor in the Gulag1.
Adolf Hitler
Adolf Hitler: Hitler, the leader of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945, is estimated to have been responsible for the deaths of approximately 30 million people1. The majority of these deaths were due to the Holocaust and World War II1.
Pol Pot
Pol Pot: Pol Pot, the leader of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia from 1975 to 1979, is estimated to have been responsible for the deaths of at least 1.7 million people1. These deaths were due to political purges, forced labor, and poor living conditions1.

Idi Amin

Idi Amin: While the number of deaths under Idi Amin’s rule in Uganda from 1971 to 1979 is not specified in the search results, it is widely reported that his regime was marked by gross human rights abuses, political repression, and corruption1.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 09:49:05 PM by Espen »
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oren

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2023, 09:59:55 PM »
Fixing the climate by deaths is not an achievement - that's the default outcome anyway.

Quote
I might suggest the de-growth people, starting with Dennis and Donella Meadows and the group who produced 'Limits To Growth' for the Club of Rome.

I wholeheartedly agree, and will add the Chinese official who read their work and managed to convince China's goverment to institute the one-child policy, preventing hundreds of millions of extra births and slowing the global overshoot.

Espen

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2023, 10:06:22 PM »
Fixing the climate by deaths is not an achievement - that's the default outcome anyway.

Quote
I might suggest the de-growth people, starting with Dennis and Donella Meadows and the group who produced 'Limits To Growth' for the Club of Rome.

I wholeheartedly agree, and will add the Chinese official who read their work and managed to convince China's goverment to institute the one-child policy, preventing hundreds of millions of extra births and slowing the global overshoot.

I did not make the answer! But we have to get used to AI solutions!
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SeanAU

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2023, 02:28:29 AM »

James Kunstler: How bad architecture wrecked cities

How depressing, everything he said was true! It's like that here now too. We're experts at copying America! I was one person calling for us to stop calling ourselves 'consumers' way back in the 1990s .... no one could understand what the problem was .... I was plainly 'weird'. I'm kind of in shock atm, on all kinds of levels. This video just explained / reflected one of them. We are in dire straits.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2023, 08:43:22 AM by SeanAU »
It's wealth, constantly seeking more wealth, to better seek still more wealth. Building wealth off of destruction. That's what's consuming the world. And is driving humans crazy at the same time.

nadir

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2023, 02:44:37 AM »
…Musk…

Musk spends private jet fuel in three months what the average Joe spends in gas in 100 lives.

Yet I have to pick his bill and:
- buy an expensive EV like Tesla
- not even think on flying to Rome once for vacations
- feel guilty for every ridiculous excess I take


No. Quite the contrary. The richest people/corporations/states in the world that are making Average Jose feel ashamed, those are who most contaminate and who should pay the bill. And Average Jose should reach the airport on time without idiot activists closing the freeway and visit Rome and have fun for once in his working life.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2023, 02:51:56 AM by nadir »

Rodius

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2023, 04:44:10 AM »
…Musk…

Musk spends private jet fuel in three months what the average Joe spends in gas in 100 lives.

Yet I have to pick his bill and:
- buy an expensive EV like Tesla
- not even think on flying to Rome once for vacations
- feel guilty for every ridiculous excess I take


No. Quite the contrary. The richest people/corporations/states in the world that are making Average Jose feel ashamed, those are who most contaminate and who should pay the bill. And Average Jose should reach the airport on time without idiot activists closing the freeway and visit Rome and have fun for once in his working life.

ALL wealthy people who talk about climate change need to shut up until they are personally active in reducing the CO2 output to nothing. Of all the people in the world who could do it, they are top of the list and they are the worst offenders.... unless they walk the walk, they are just saying it to look like they matter.

As for air travel.... we should avoid it as much as possible.
It isn't about feeling guilty for air travel, it should be a question on whether it is required or not.
Travel from North America to Rome... probably not required travel when there is an entire continent to explore right under their feet and air travel isn't required for that. Train, bus, bike ride, even in a car is better than air travel.

And we don have to buy an EV... it is far better to not have a car of any kind in the first place, something we need to get into our heads quickly but we keep making excuses.
I include myself in this too... we have the smallest car possible because my wife (who is the worker in the family at the moment) works in a hard to get to place in terms of public transport.

In saying that, we are nearing a point where the car is about to die of old age and a discussion is being had on buying a decent electric scooter to do the 10km distance to work. No petrol costs, no taxes, no repairs, no car registration fees.... a scooter and a decent jacket for winter and she is good to go.

Those decisions are not based on feeling guilty about owning a car, it is based on doing as much of the right things as possible.

Same goes to air travel... we want to visit Samoa but the flight is something we seriously consider as something we do not want to do. We may do it in the end, but it will be rare. And we wont feel guilty about it as we will seek a way to compensate the emissions ourselves (we don't trust companies to do what they say they will do.)

As for every excess we have, as in all people, we should be looking deeply at those excesses because they are a problem that we need to address. Not considering everything excess as being required is a point and discussion we need to have on every level... from air travel to owning a car to the clothes we wear to every single thing we purchase.
THAT would make a massive dent in the problem... imagine if everyone on the wealthy countries decided to half how many things they bought and the results of that on the climate and environment. And it could be done.

So, yeah, you do need to consider every excess you have and ask yourself the question of whether it is a need or want... done well, most of the wants are not purchased.

Not doing this kind of process does make you part of the problem.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2023, 01:26:44 PM »
I’m still waiting for anyone to name a person who has done more to get the world off fossil fuels than He Who Must Not Be Named.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,4136.msg389888.html#msg389888

Not someone who has talked to a lot of people about it.
Or took a personal stand against it.
Or encouraged other people to act.
Not someone responsible for killing people, or population control.

Someone who is personally responsible for physical actions that have resulted in reducing people’s use and dependence on fossil fuels today, more than Elon Musk.

You’ve done the hating.  Now: a name, or accept that there isn’t anyone who has done more.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Espen

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2023, 02:12:20 PM »
I’m still waiting for anyone to name a person who has done more to get the world off fossil fuels than He Who Must Not Be Named.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,4136.msg389888.html#msg389888

Not someone who has talked to a lot of people about it.
Or took a personal stand against it.
Or encouraged other people to act.
Not someone responsible for killing people, or population control.

Someone who is personally responsible for physical actions that have resulted in reducing people’s use and dependence on fossil fuels today, more than Elon Musk.

You’ve done the hating.  Now: a name, or accept that there isn’t anyone who has done more.

In my opinion, your way of arguing for a person's actions resembles that of a radical religious believer and at the same time with your right-wing political undertones!
Have a ice day!

Neven

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2023, 02:18:18 PM »
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

Bruce Steele

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2023, 05:39:15 PM »
Yes Tesla products have reduced the amount of CO2 that would have been produced without Tesla products. Yes Nuclear power has also saved us from some Fossil Fuel emissions not yet emitted . But Tesla and Nuclear both still consume lots of fossil fuels and concrete and resources and maybe neither will make any difference at all if we are intent on pumping all the fossil fuel reserves anyhow, just slower.
So relative to a whole full throttle civilization using exclusively fossil resources as fast as possible and one where that throttle is accelerated with additional power from solar and nuclear I am not sure how to pick winners.
 Tesla would be my choice in a proportional measure of who as done the most to slow our carbon excursion . Won’t matter if we can’t cap our oil wells and coal mines before they exhaust every drop we can manage to extract.
 My heart says Wendell Berry because he offers an alternative that would both fix the problem and mend the earth. Because it would fix us.
 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 05:46:22 PM by Bruce Steele »

Freegrass

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2023, 08:10:38 PM »
I’m still waiting for anyone to name a person who has done more to get the world off fossil fuels than He Who Must Not Be Named.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,4136.msg389888.html#msg389888

Not someone who has talked to a lot of people about it.
Or took a personal stand against it.
Or encouraged other people to act.
Not someone responsible for killing people, or population control.

Someone who is personally responsible for physical actions that have resulted in reducing people’s use and dependence on fossil fuels today, more than Elon Musk.

You’ve done the hating.  Now: a name, or accept that there isn’t anyone who has done more.
That must be some Chinese guy where Elon buys his batteries from.
90% of the world is religious, but somehow "love thy neighbour" became "fuck thy neighbours", if they don't agree with your point of view.

WTF happened?

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2023, 10:13:03 PM »
How about one of these 3?

John B. Goodenough, M. Stanley Whittingham and Akira Yoshino who were awarded the Nobel in 2019 for their contributions to the development of the lithium-ion battery.

Rodius

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2023, 11:51:54 PM »
I’m still waiting for anyone to name a person who has done more to get the world off fossil fuels than He Who Must Not Be Named.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,4136.msg389888.html#msg389888

Not someone who has talked to a lot of people about it.
Or took a personal stand against it.
Or encouraged other people to act.
Not someone responsible for killing people, or population control.

Someone who is personally responsible for physical actions that have resulted in reducing people’s use and dependence on fossil fuels today, more than Elon Musk.

You’ve done the hating.  Now: a name, or accept that there isn’t anyone who has done more.

That is quite some list of restrictions of be able to name the person who shall not be named as number one.

He hasn't really affected much while also making a lot of money at the same time while he continues to produce a truck load of CO2 emissions on a personal level.
ANYWAY who makes money on his scale cant be included because ALL billionaires are the problem.

Removing the super wealthy would be a fairly decent step forward in fixing the problem... so he cant be the one.

The most likely way things will change is through cultural change in the wealthy countries that involves regrowth.
To do that, we need a person who talks a lot, writes a lot, and is a master communicator that is able to convince a bunch of psychopaths and narcissists to do something against the personal interests.

Anyone who can do that deserves first place.
It just hasn't happened..... so maybe, in the end, when the situation gets bad enough for wealthy countries, it will end up being The Masses who step up and force leaders to do what needs doing and we all become number one on the list.... but that also requires talking, encouraging others, taking personal stands and taking personal responsibility.

Cultural change is all that matters... without it, this situation is a lost cause.
That is why my focus in on the talkers and motivators... probably, today, it would need to be an activist.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2023, 01:25:22 AM »
Yes Tesla products have reduced the amount of CO2 that would have been produced without Tesla products. Yes Nuclear power has also saved us from some Fossil Fuel emissions not yet emitted . But Tesla and Nuclear both still consume lots of fossil fuels and concrete and resources and maybe neither will make any difference at all if we are intent on pumping all the fossil fuel reserves anyhow, just slower.
So relative to a whole full throttle civilization using exclusively fossil resources as fast as possible and one where that throttle is accelerated with additional power from solar and nuclear I am not sure how to pick winners.
 Tesla would be my choice in a proportional measure of who as done the most to slow our carbon excursion . Won’t matter if we can’t cap our oil wells and coal mines before they exhaust every drop we can manage to extract.
 My heart says Wendell Berry because he offers an alternative that would both fix the problem and mend the earth. Because it would fix us.

Thank you for the thoughtful response.  Tesla’s net carbon reduction is significant. 

“In 2020, Tesla customers helped accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy by avoiding 5.0 million metric tons of CO2e emissions.”
https://www.tesla.com/impact-report/2020

It is unfortunate Wendell Berry can’t package his ideas in a form people could implement directly.

===
How about one of these 3?

John B. Goodenough, M. Stanley Whittingham and Akira Yoshino who were awarded the Nobel in 2019 for their contributions to the development of the lithium-ion battery.
Good runners-up!
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Florifulgurator

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2023, 11:25:06 AM »
Snip drei.

(...)
 My heart says Wendell Berry because he offers an alternative that would both fix the problem and mend the earth. Because it would fix us.
Seconded. He got the point already in 1977. Nongenosuicidal agri-culture is a substantial pillar of the solution (carbon cycle repair). Alas right now it is still part of the problem, with no insight in sight. (Exceptions like Vandana Shiva or Bruce Steele confirm my verdict.)

Quote
“My basic assumption when talking about agriculture is that there’s more to it than just agriculture. That you can’t disconnect one part of a society from all the other parts and just look at the results and that alone.” ~ Wendell Berry against Earl Butz, 1977
https://www.agrariantrust.org/butzs-law-of-economics/
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 01:22:40 PM by kassy »
"The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or committed communist, but rather people for whom the difference between facts and fiction, true and false, no longer exists." ~ Hannah Arendt
"Вчи українську це тобі ще знадобиться" ~ Internet

Freegrass

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2023, 11:36:20 AM »
Thank you for the thoughtful response.  Tesla’s net carbon reduction is significant. 

“In 2020, Tesla customers helped accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy by avoiding 5.0 million metric tons of CO2e emissions.”
https://www.tesla.com/impact-report/2020

It is unfortunate Wendell Berry can’t package his ideas in a form people could implement directly.

===
How about one of these 3?

John B. Goodenough, M. Stanley Whittingham and Akira Yoshino who were awarded the Nobel in 2019 for their contributions to the development of the lithium-ion battery.
Good runners-up!
How much CO2 is being emitted by the cryptocurrencies Elon promotes?
How much CO2 is he putting into the air with his rockets and private jets?
90% of the world is religious, but somehow "love thy neighbour" became "fuck thy neighbours", if they don't agree with your point of view.

WTF happened?

Freegrass

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2023, 11:45:41 AM »
I've decided on Al Gore. His film, An Inconvenient Truth, has done more to wake the world up to climate change than anyone else before him. Yes, James Hansen was the first, but nobody knew about it back then. It was An Inconvenient Truth that really woke up the world. There was a before, and an after that film. That's why I'm going for Al Gore, who, together with Obama, was also a major help in getting the Paris Climate Agreement signed.
90% of the world is religious, but somehow "love thy neighbour" became "fuck thy neighbours", if they don't agree with your point of view.

WTF happened?

Bruce Steele

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2023, 05:24:32 PM »
Martin, I like this Aussie farmer. He is farming without tractors or rototillers . The best example I have found for zero fossil fuel farming. Here is an index of former articles.
https://zeroinputagriculture.wordpress.com/2020/07/10/index-post-july-2020/

Shane Simonsen, He now publishes on sub stack but there is a wealth of information in these older articles. His sub stack is worth a subscription.

“ Posted byzeroinputagricultureSeptember 15, 2019Posted inUncategorized
Zero input agriculture is in many ways a reaction to the realisation of how the awesome power of industrialisation dominates even the most sincere efforts to decouple from it. People who keep chickens are almost all merely turning grain produced by diesel powered machines and chemical fertilisers into eggs. Without that artificial support the birds would barely survive let alone produce. Those who raise their own vegetables usually rely on imported manure, mulch and irrigation water, all produced, harvested and transported on the back of a completely fossil fuel dependent system. Without this support the harvest would be meagre at best. Hobby farming, just like industrial farming, is a way to turn cheap fossil fuels into a small amount of food. For many decades people of industrialised nations have had a creeping sense of dread that the current system cannot last but most attempts seem to fall into the temptation for quick and easy answers, which inevitably means consuming even more fossil fuels. Zero input agriculture is my attempt to face this issue head on and try to develop systems that really could support humans without ongoing industrial inputs.”
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 05:44:05 PM by Bruce Steele »

nadir

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Re: Who has done the most for the climate in history?
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2023, 06:26:36 PM »
I've decided on Al Gore. His film, An Inconvenient Truth, has done more to wake the world up to climate change than anyone else before him. Yes, James Hansen was the first, but nobody knew about it back then. It was An Inconvenient Truth that really woke up the world. There was a before, and an after that film. That's why I'm going for Al Gore, who, together with Obama, was also a major help in getting the Paris Climate Agreement signed.

Al Gore’s deranged alarmism is the never-ending fuel for deniers.

At least Jim Hansen is a scientist and called the attention when very few knew about it. (1980’s much earlier than that science-fiction piece from 2006).