Geothermal Energy

[Freegrass]

I couldn't find a dedicated thread for geothermal energy, and so I made one, because it looks like new techniques will be making it more viable. I'm curious to learn more about these new fracking techniques. What's the danger of them? Is it as bad as oil fracking? Or cleaner?

US aiming to ‘crack the code’ on deploying geothermal energy at scale
Recent $74m investment made alongside assessment that 10% of electricity could be generated by geothermal by 2050

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/02/geothermal-energy-electricity

A limitless supply of heat exists beneath our feet within the Earth’s crust, but harnessing it at scale has proved challenging. Now, a combination of new techniques, government support and the pressing need to secure continuous clean power in an era of climate crisis means that geothermal energy is finally having its moment in the US.

Until recently, geothermal has only been viable where the Earth’s inner heat simmers near the surface, such as at hot springs or geysers where hot water or steam can be easily drawn to drive turbines and generate electricity.

While this has allowed a limited number of places, like Iceland, to use geothermal as a main source of heating and electricity, it has only been a niche presence in the US, providing less than 1% of its electricity. But this could change dramatically, offering the promise of endless, 24/7 clean energy that can fill in the gaps of intermittent solar and wind generation in the electricity grid.

“Geothermal has been used for over 100 years, limited to certain geographic locations – but that is now changing,” said Amanda Kolker, the geothermal laboratory program manager at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL).

“As we penetrate the grid with renewables that are not available all the time, we need to find a base load, which is currently taken up by gas. There aren’t really many options for zero-emissions base load power, which is why geothermal is entering the picture.”

Geothermal capacity could increase 20-fold by 2050, generating 10% of the US’s electricity, according to a recent road map released by the US Department of Energy. Joe Biden’s administration has also funded new projects aimed at pushing forward the next generation of geothermal that aim to make the energy source available anywhere on America’s landmass, not just easy-to-reach hot springs.

“The US can lead the clean-energy future with continued innovation on next-generation technologies, from harnessing the power of the sun to the heat beneath our feet, and cracking the code to deploy them at scale,” said Jennifer Granholm, the US energy secretary, who added that she saw “enormous potential” in geothermal.

Expanding the geothermal footprint to the entire US will take time, as well as plenty of money – the department of energy estimates as much as $250bn will be needed for projects to become widespread across the country, providing a major source of clean power.

But advocates of geothermal say that such growth is within reach, because of a wave of geothermal technologies as well as government support. In February, the Biden administration announced $74m for up to seven pilot projects to develop enhanced geothermal systems that, the government said, hold the potential for powering 65m American homes.

Ironically, enhanced geothermal uses similar fracking techniques currently used to extract oil and gas, which must be phased out if the world is to avoid climate disaster. In the geothermal version of fracking, fluid is injected deep underground, causing fractures to open up, with the liquid becoming hot as it circulates. The hot water is then pumped to the surface, where it can generate electricity for the grid.

This, and other new techniques that allow deeper and horizontal drilling, in some cases down to eight miles deep, allows geothermal energy to be drawn from hot rocks found anywhere underground, rather than select spots that have hot water near the surface. This vastly expands the potential of the technology.

“Anywhere in the country, if you drill, it gets hotter and hotter with each mile you go deeper,” said Koenraad Beckers, an NREL thermal sciences researcher.

“In the western United States, that temperature increases fast. If you drill just one to two miles deep, you have temperatures hot enough for electricity. To get those temperatures in eastern states, you might need to drill miles and miles down, but you can use lower temperatures to directly heat or cool campuses, neighbourhoods and even towns.”

Dozens of new companies are looking to push ahead with geothermal plans, buoyed up by incentives offered by recent legislation passed in the US, although only a few have so far managed to complete full projects in the US, such as Eavor, a Canadian firm that successfully drilled a three-mile hole in New Mexico to prove it could access heat in deep, granite rock.

At play for these companies is an inexhaustible energy supply. Just one type of next generation geothermal – called superhot rock energy, where deep drilling reaches temperatures 400C or hotter – is abundant enough to theoretically fulfil the world’s power requirements. In fact, just 1% of the world’s superhot rock potential could provide 63 terawatts of clean firm power, which would meet global electricity demand nearly eight times over.

“While this modelling is preliminary, our findings suggest an enormous opportunity to unlock vast amounts of clean energy beneath our feet,” said Terra Rogers, the director for superhot rock energy at Clean Air Task Force, which produced the modelling tool to measure the potential of this approach.

“Energy security backed by always available zero-carbon energy isn’t a far-off dream.”

[kassy]

There are many ways to do geothermal and many different scales on which it can be done.

If you pump water through a closed loop that limits the heat gain. If you do it on this grand scale as proposed one important question is how much water gets used. 

[Richard Rathbone]

Its not  exactly limitless. The geothermal heat flux across the entire planet is about 44 TW. Thats the same order of magnitude as the world's current energy use. However the vast majority of that is under the ocean.

Mean flux under land is 65 mW/m2
The USA is about 10M km2.

65 GW for the USA.
The USA currently uses about 3000 GW.

I think they are probably assuming that they can keep finding a new location to frack after they've cooled down the original fracked volume rather than what can be taken sustainably. Good luck finding a new US after the current one is completely fracked, which is what will happen if they try  to do geothermal at the sort of scale that article is talking  about.

Data from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_gradient
https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption

[morganism]

I was surprised how many fairly new books where in my local library on this, didn't know it was going forward so much. I like the idea of what they are doing in the Salton Sea tho, pairing geo with lithium and rare earth harvesting out of the brines seems like much saltier way to mine.

There was a team that got issued a permit to drill into a fairly recent volcano up in the Pac NW, never heard anything else on it.

There isn't a lot of research on fracking, other than plenty of technique, because the USA forbade any scientific research money going into it. Voted it in Congress.

[Sciguy]

Actually, geothermal is nearly limitless.  While the heat flux at the surface is pretty minimal that’s because the ground acts as an insulator.  Digging down, the temperatures get hotter.  And as the Wikipedia article linked above points out,

The heat of Earth is replenished by radioactive decay at a rate of 30 TW.[26] The global geothermal flow rates are more than twice the rate of human energy consumption from all primary sources. Global data on heat-flow density are collected and compiled by the International Heat Flow Commission (IHFC) of the IASPEI/IUGG.[27]

So by using the recent technology advances that allow for fracking oil and natural gas for geothermal energy, we would have a reliable source of 24/7 power that would supplement solar and wind.  100% renewable is possible with this combination of power generation sources.

[Richard Rathbone]

Actually, geothermal is nearly limitless.  While the heat flux at the surface is pretty minimal that’s because the ground acts as an insulator.  Digging down, the temperatures get hotter.  And as the Wikipedia article linked above points out,

The heat of Earth is replenished by radioactive decay at a rate of 30 TW.[26] The global geothermal flow rates are more than twice the rate of human energy consumption from all primary sources. Global data on heat-flow density are collected and compiled by the International Heat Flow Commission (IHFC) of the IASPEI/IUGG.[27]

So by using the recent technology advances that allow for fracking oil and natural gas for geothermal energy, we would have a reliable source of 24/7 power that would supplement solar and wind.  100% renewable is possible with this combination of power generation sources.

Getting hotter doesn't change the flux, just allows more of it to be used. Good luck extracting it  from under the Titanic. Thats where the vast majority of it is, under the deep ocean. Fracking the entire US and perfectly capturing the entire flux would be 2% of the current US energy usage not double it. Its never going to be anything but niche. It can be expanded, but its not making more than a tiny dent in the amount of solar thats needed.

Portraying it as limitless is a distraction tactic by Big Oil to draw attention away from the renewables that can actually replace them if they were pushed hard enough. Its about capturing the US research funding and causing it to be spent by them on something that doesn't threaten to strand their assets.

[gerontocrat]

Kenya has cracked it. I wonder if they got help from some Icelandic engineers?

But even there it is an addition to the mix of renewables and does not replace the urgent need to ramp up solar+wind and reshape the grid.

‘Our contribution to a cleaner world’: How Kenya found an extraordinary power source beneath its feet

The 1970s oil crisis helped pave the way for Kenya to utilise its vast geothermal resources beneath the Great Rift Valley

by Peter Muiruri

The Kenyan stretch of the Great Rift Valley is breathtaking. Vast plains between the two escarpments teem with wildlife, creating one of the world’s largest animal migrations – the Mara-Serengeti wildebeest migration. The alkaline lakes in the east African rift system are home to elegant and graceful flamingos, pink wonders that reels in visitors from around the world and are a vital cog in Kenya’s thriving tourism industry.

But it is what lies beneath the valley floor that has had a literally seismic impact on Kenya in recent years – vast geothermal resources that have made the country a world leader in clean energy.

Peketsa Mangi is the general manager in charge of geothermal development at KenGen, the country’s energy generating company. “We are lucky the African rift runs through Kenya,” he told me when I visited last week. “We just happened to be in the right place with several volcanic centres. Olkaria is one of these centres.”

Mangi and I are sitting in a gazebo overlooking a spa pool that uses brine, the byproduct of the geothermal development process. Visitors from all over Kenya come to enjoy the pool’s “healing” properties. With a power plant humming away nearby, my first visit to the heart of Kenya’s geothermal power generation turns out to be a lesson on what is going on below our feet.

According to the Geological Society, the Somalian and Nubian tectonic plates pulled away in opposite directions about 25m years ago, with the surface between the two fault lines sinking and bringing magmatic fluids closer to Earth’s surface and creating the famous rift, a vast valley that stretches 6,400km from Jordan to Mozambique. Under the valley, water percolates easily and comes into contact with hot rocks found 1-3km beneath the surface, creating a mix of superheated water and steam at 75% and 25% respectively, with temperatures averaging 300C (572F) and pressures of 1,000 PSI. These are, it turns out, the perfect conditions for generating geothermal energy.

“This is the steam we are tapping to run the turbines that generate electricity. It is rough down there, and that is where we go,” says Mangi. “A dangerous but necessary mission.”

Mangi has observed the behaviour of the valley for 27 years and knows exactly where to drill a well that will yield geothermal power. “Kenya has developed the capacity for precision geoscientific studies that help us to identify potential areas to drill. Exploration and drilling are cost-intensive endeavours and investors don’t want to go to a greenfield without confirmed viable resources,” he says.

Geothermal energy had its start in the small settlement of Larderello, Italy in 1904. The small plant provided 10kW of energy, which was used to power five lightbulbs. Since then, a number of countries have dug deep in order to exploit similar resources. The US, Indonesia, the Philippines, Turkey and New Zealand are the top five geothermal power producers in the world.

In Kenya, the search for underground energy began nearly 70 years ago, but stalled almost immediately. In 1956, the government drilled two wells specifically to harness geothermal power, at a depth of 950 metres and 1,200 metres respectively. “Temperatures averaged 235C (445F) but the wells failed to discharge due to poor permeability as the surrounding area was a bit solid,” says Mangi.

Then the oil crisis of the early 1970s happened and, once again, Kenya peered beneath the ground for an answer. Global organisations including United Nations Development Programme, The World Bank and Japan International Cooperation Agency stepped in to provide financial and technical support for further exploration. In 1971, a well was drilled and discharged. Everybody got excited again, Mangi says. Between 1981 and 1985, Kenya had an installed capacity of 45MW through the first three power plants in Olkaria.

“We don’t know where the country would be had the oil crisis not hastened this process,” Mangi says. “Geothermal is available 24/7 for 365 days. It is not affected by climate fluctuations since we are using water that has accumulated deep in the ground over the millenniums. The alternative would have been the installation of diesel generators that pollute the environment. This is our contribution to a cleaner world.”

Now, here at Olkaria, near the flower-growing town of Naivasha 56 miles (90km) from Nairobi, there are close to 300 geothermal wells providing steam that runs turbines in five geothermal power plants operated by KenGen.

The power plants and 15 wellheads have a combined capacity of 799MW. With additional geothermal power generated by independent power producers, Kenya’s total geothermal power capacity is 988.7MW, putting the country in sixth position globally (and first in Africa) in terms of geothermal power development.

As a result, Kenya sources up to 91% of its energy from renewables: 47% geothermal, 30% hydro, 12% wind and 2% solar. The country hopes to transition fully to renewables by 2030, with KenGen saying the country has the potential to increase its capacity to as much as 10,000MW of geothermal energy. That would more than match peak demand in Kenya, currently about 2,000MW. Peak time consumption in the UK is about 61,000MW.

Several wells sit within Hell’s Gate national park, the location that inspired the movie The Lion King. The park is patrolled by antelopes, giraffes, zebras and buffaloes, all roaming freely and oblivious to the immense energy trapped beneath their hooves and delivered to the power plants through a labyrinth of a high-pressure piping system averaging 74 miles (120km).

“Geothermal power is clean and poses no harm to the wildlife as the animals have adapted to this system,” says Gastone Odhiambo, a safety officer at the power plants. “These pipes are delivering steam to the turbines at 180C (356F) to produce 11 kilovolts of electricity that is then stepped up to 220 kilovolts to travel long distances. You need a sober mind since a single mishap can bring the country to a halt.”

Odhiambo’s childhood home in western Kenya did not have electricity. “I grew up in darkness,” he tells me at the plant’s control room full of switches, dials and strobe lights. “It is a heavy responsibility to help in generating clean energy that can go for ages. When you understand the process, how your tasks affect the day to day running of the economy, you remain humble.”

The Kenyan president, William Ruto, is now spearheading an African campaign to wean the continent off fossil fuels. In September last year, a declaration was signed, which called for reform of international finance and castigated the global north for the skewed global financial system that makes it difficult for Africa to harness its vast renewable energy resources.

“Despite Africa having an estimated 40% of the world’s renewable energy resources, only $60bn or 2% of $3tn renewable energy investments in the last decade have come to Africa,” read the declaration.

While Kenya and the rest of Africa await the financial reforms, it is a fulfilling assignment for the team that works at the geothermal plants in Olkaria, as Mangi sums it up: “A good day here is when the whole process works like clockwork. When all scientific studies and financial resources are poured into the ground, a well is drilled and it discharges, that is power to the country. You feel the investments are well used. And such good days are many.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/25/our-contribution-to-a-cleaner-world-how-kenya-found-an-extraordinary-power-source-beneath-its-feet#:~:text=The%20power%20plants%20and%2015,terms%20of%20geothermal%20power%20development.

[Freegrass]

Many thanks for all the responses! Great article Gero.

I've been doing my research on geothermal for the last 2 days, and one company stands out, Eavor Technologies. Their technology looks great. It's explained in the video below, and in a few more good videos on their YouTube channel.

They already started building a commercial system in Germany.

In total, Eavor is drilling four Eavor-Loops™ at the location. Together, they will generate approximately 64 MW of thermal power and 8.2 MW of electrical power, respectively, saving approximately 44,000 metric tons of CO2 equivalents per year. As early as summer 2024, one of the four Eavor-Loops™ will supply electrical energy for the first time. Completion of the entire plant is planned for 2027. Then the Eavor-Loop™ at Geretsried will be able to supply the entire region with district heating. Due to its advantages, the Eavor-Loop™ technology has the potential to become the gamechanger in energy supply for Germany and worldwide.

This is way better than fracking for hydrothermal. And we need this! For base load power, but mostly to heat our homes with district heating.

And the oil industry will be happy that they can keep drilling. But now for hydrothermal energy and natural hydrogen please.

[interstitial]

Actually, geothermal is nearly limitless.  While the heat flux at the surface is pretty minimal that’s because the ground acts as an insulator.  Digging down, the temperatures get hotter.  And as the Wikipedia article linked above points out,

The heat of Earth is replenished by radioactive decay at a rate of 30 TW.[26] The global geothermal flow rates are more than twice the rate of human energy consumption from all primary sources. Global data on heat-flow density are collected and compiled by the International Heat Flow Commission (IHFC) of the IASPEI/IUGG.[27]

So by using the recent technology advances that allow for fracking oil and natural gas for geothermal energy, we would have a reliable source of 24/7 power that would supplement solar and wind.  100% renewable is possible with this combination of power generation sources.

Getting hotter doesn't change the flux, just allows more of it to be used. Good luck extracting it  from under the Titanic. Thats where the vast majority of it is, under the deep ocean. Fracking the entire US and perfectly capturing the entire flux would be 2% of the current US energy usage not double it. Its never going to be anything but niche. It can be expanded, but its not making more than a tiny dent in the amount of solar thats needed.

Portraying it as limitless is a distraction tactic by Big Oil to draw attention away from the renewables that can actually replace them if they were pushed hard enough. Its about capturing the US research funding and causing it to be spent by them on something that doesn't threaten to strand their assets.

https://atb.nrel.gov/electricity/2022/geothermalThe total mean potential estimated by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) in 2008 is 39,090 MW: 9,057 MW identified and 30,033 MW undiscovered (USGS, 2008).
So 39 GW of nearly 100% capacity factor of power making it equivalent to about 65 GW of gas or 91 GW of coal or 117 GW of wind or 162 GW of solar. It is better than wind or solar because it is nearly always on at full power. 39 GW of always on geothermal is about 5.5% of US power. But that number is technology limited for just hydrothermal and NF-EGS(Near hydrothermal Field Enhanced Geothermal Systems). Deep-EGS (3-6km) can add another +100 GW or another 14% or so total that is about 20% of US energy from geothermal. The deeper you drill the more sites can be exploited so that could potentially go much higher. All EGS sights are located in "natural heat zones" so there are other locations possible with even deeper drilling. No drilling under the ocean required though certainly technically possible.


The point is the 39 GW or 5.5% of US power is not even close to the thermal flux you are misinformed or mistaken.


I might also add that oil companies are not pursuing it former oil company employees are.

[Richard Rathbone]

The point is the 39 GW or 5.5% of US power is not even close to the thermal flux you are misinformed or mistaken.

Thats about half my estimate of the thermal flux. i.e. they are assuming the entire US is fracked to get those numbers and probably to a pretty extreme depth too, because thermal power plants  have to be extremely hot to have efficiencies around 50%. Eavor could get a bit more than 11% if they were heating rivers with waste heat rather than houses but thermal power plants with efficiencies that high have input temperatures around 1000C.

Throw a lot of money at it, and I expect they can turn 2 into 5 or maybe even 10GW, but its  niche, not limitless and its actual limits are a small fraction of US energy demand.

ex-oil personnel doing green research reminds me of Beyond Petroleum. BP still uses the Beyond Petroleum logo,  but they spun out their solar R&D into a company contracted to them when they sacked their woke CEO and doubled down on Russian gas after deciding that Kyoto was going nowhere. Oil companies are full of people that can do these estimates,  and they know geothermal  is going almost nowhere too.

[interstitial]

The point is the 39 GW or 5.5% of US power is not even close to the thermal flux you are misinformed or mistaken.

Thats about half my estimate of the thermal flux. i.e. they are assuming the entire US is fracked to get those numbers and probably to a pretty extreme depth too, because thermal power plants  have to be extremely hot to have efficiencies around 50%. Eavor could get a bit more than 11% if they were heating rivers with waste heat rather than houses but thermal power plants with efficiencies that high have input temperatures around 1000C.

Throw a lot of money at it, and I expect they can turn 2 into 5 or maybe even 10GW, but its  niche, not limitless and its actual limits are a small fraction of US energy demand.

ex-oil personnel doing green research reminds me of Beyond Petroleum. BP still uses the Beyond Petroleum logo,  but they spun out their solar R&D into a company contracted to them when they sacked their woke CEO and doubled down on Russian gas after deciding that Kyoto was going nowhere. Oil companies are full of people that can do these estimates,  and they know geothermal  is going almost nowhere too.

They are not assuming the entire US is fracked or at extreme depths to get 39 GW. That 39 GW is in locations were they have to drill less than 3 km to get usable heat which is certainly not everywhere. If they drill deeper more locations become usable adding depths of 3-6 km adds another 100+ GW. Your flux estimates are wrong.


I include a reference to the National Energy Renewable Laboratory website which is backed by actual citations of research you just make a claim without reference to anything.

https://atb.nrel.gov/electricity/2023/geothermal

[Freegrass]

It took me a while, but I finally found this video again about a new drilling technique that would make drilling much cheaper, with a possibility to go much deeper too.

Together with the Eavor Loop technology, this could revolutionize geothermal energy and give us cheap, reliable, base load power, and make us less dependable on chemical batteries.

I think it's also great for seasonal storage. Use it a lot in winter, and let the rocks heat up again in summer.

Drill, baby, drill!

[interstitial]

That video was interesting Freegrass thank you. That video is more than a year old. I checked the Quaise Energy website and they still show the hybrid drilling system drilling this year and completing a 100 mw plant by 2026. If everything goes smoothly it should pick up from there but even if it does it will not be a major source of energy before mid to late 2030's. Geothermal is 24/365 power you could shut it down for low demand times but unless you have too much energy that just increases the wear and tear on the equipment.


https://www.quaise.energy


An article about a former oil and gas VP who now works at Quaise Energy
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/26/texas-geothermal-energy-oil-and-gas/


“Recovery of just 2% of the thermal energy stored in hot rock 3 to 10 km [2 to 12 miles] below the continental U.S. is equivalent to 2,000 times the primary U.S. energy consumption” annually, he and Callahan write in their paper.
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1039007


This provides updates including drilling this autumn in Texas.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/geothermal-energy-gyrotron-quaise


According to the Clean Air Task Force, merely 1% of this “superhot rock” geothermal potential could meet global electricity demand multiple times over.
https://www.quaise.energy/news/why-fossil-fuels-are-so-addictive

[kiwichick16]

@ interstitial   .....from the last link in your last post ......from the Energy.gov website .....they put energy capacity of geothermal at 71 %  .....compared to coal at 49 % and solar PV at 24 %

[interstitial]

@ interstitial   .....from the last link in your last post ......from the Energy.gov website .....they put energy capacity of geothermal at 71 %  .....compared to coal at 49 % and solar PV at 24 %

I am looking for energy.gov website reference and do not see it. Energy capacity is what? Capacity factor? Something else?

[kiwichick16]

https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/what-generation-capacity  .....from the Quaise article  ....why fossil fuels are so addictive ..... link on the word ..rank....

[interstitial]

@ interstitial   .....from the last link in your last post ......from the Energy.gov website .....they put energy capacity of geothermal at 71 %  .....compared to coal at 49 % and solar PV at 24 %

So those are indeed capacity factors. Geothermal can run nearly 24/365 but does not because it is not economic to do so. Coal can run more often too in the 70's was how often they used to run in the US but no longer. Solar was at 25% but I think curtailment has caused that to decline. The following is from the same website in a different location.
Geothermal energy is available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, regardless of weather. Geothermal power plants have a high-capacity factor—typically 90% or higher—meaning that they can operate at maximum capacity nearly all the time.
[/size]From the "What are the benifits of using geothermal energy?"[/color]
[/size]https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/geothermal-faqs[/color]

[Freegrass]

That video was interesting Freegrass thank you. That video is more than a year old. I checked the Quaise Energy website and they still show the hybrid drilling system drilling this year and completing a 100 mw plant by 2026. If everything goes smoothly it should pick up from there but even if it does it will not be a major source of energy before mid to late 2030's. Geothermal is 24/365 power you could shut it down for low demand times but unless you have too much energy that just increases the wear and tear on the equipment.

https://www.quaise.energy


An article about a former oil and gas VP who now works at Quaise Energy
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/03/26/texas-geothermal-energy-oil-and-gas/


“Recovery of just 2% of the thermal energy stored in hot rock 3 to 10 km [2 to 12 miles] below the continental U.S. is equivalent to 2,000 times the primary U.S. energy consumption” annually, he and Callahan write in their paper.
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1039007


This provides updates including drilling this autumn in Texas.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/geothermal-energy-gyrotron-quaise


According to the Clean Air Task Force, merely 1% of this “superhot rock” geothermal potential could meet global electricity demand multiple times over.
https://www.quaise.energy/news/why-fossil-fuels-are-so-addictive

Nice research and excellent article about geothermal in Texas Interstitial! Incredible how many renewables Texas has right now. More than California I picked up somewhere.

Oil country is going green, and I really do hope they are as excited about geothermal and natural hydrogen as I am. It's right in their alley. They have all the drilling knowledge.

Here's a pretty good video from the Fully Charged Show from last year about geothermal in the UK. District heating may be the way forward for Britain and other countries. It could definitely move decarbonization faster forward than insulation and heat pumps IMHO. Curious what others here have to say about this.

[Freegrass]

Interesting idea, but this only works with enhanced geothermal (fracking).

Geothermal May Beat Batteries for Energy Storage
Enhanced geothermal systems are well suited to store excess renewable power as heat.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/geothermal-energy

Geothermal systems carry warmth from Earth’s interior up to the surface for heating or electricity. But geothermal power plants are expensive to build, and will get even less economically viable as wind and solar power get cheaper and more plentiful. However, even as wind and solar grow, so does the need to store electricity from those temperamental sources.

A new proposal could solve those issues and bolster all three renewable technologies. The idea is simple—use advanced geothermal reservoirs to store excess wind and solar power in the form of hot water or steam, and bring up that heat when wind and solar aren’t available, to turn turbines for electricity.

“It would allow next-generation geothermal plants to break from the traditional baseload operating paradigm and earn much greater value as suppliers of wind and solar,” says Wilson Ricks, a graduate student in mechanical and aerospace engineering at Princeton University.

Ricks, his Ph.D. advisor Jesse Jenkins, and Jack Norbeck, cofounder and chief technology officer of Houston-based advanced geothermal developer Fervo Energy, ran extensive simulations of such geothermal reservoir energy storage to see if the technical components of the system as well as the economics actually work out. They found that the systems could indeed store electricity over a range of time scales, from a few hours up to many days, as efficiently as lithium-ion batteries. Plus, says Ricks, “the storage capacity effectively comes free of charge with construction of a geothermal reservoir.”

Their results apply only to enhanced geothermal plants, like the ones Fervo and other companies such as Cambridge, Mass.–based Quaise Energy and Seattle-based AltaRock Energy are developing.

Conventional geothermal systems drill wells into naturally occurring hydrothermal reservoirs. But these pockets of hot water deep underground do not exist everywhere. In the United States, for instance, they are mostly located in the west.

Enhanced geothermal systems (EGS) get around this geographical limitation by creating artificial reservoirs. Developers create fractures in hot, dry rock formations by drilling into or melting the rock, and then injecting water into the fissures. Production wells bring the heated water up for producing electricity. “For scales necessary to contribute to national or global electricity decarbonization, we need to be able to extract geothermal heat outside of conventional formations,” Ricks says.

Fervo Energy raised US $138 million in venture capital funding in August to advance its technology. The company uses innovations from the oil and gas industry, such as horizontal drilling and distributed fiber-optic sensing, to create underground reservoirs. The company plans to use the new funds to complete two pilot projects, including one with Google in Nevada.

Once these EGS systems are in place, they would be ideal for storing energy as well as producing electricity. Excess wind or solar energy could be used to inject water into the artificial reservoirs, where it would accumulate and build up pressure. The production wells could then be opened up when electricity is needed.

“EGS reservoirs are created in rock formations that are naturally impermeable; everything outside the artificial reservoir is sealed off,” says Ricks. “It’s very similar to a hydropower reservoir, where you choose when to have water go through the dam and generate electricity.”

Depending on the geology and traits of the rocks, Ricks and his colleagues’ simulations found that the systems could store energy with up to 90 percent efficiency over one cycle. That’s comparable with lithium-ion and pumped hydro storage, he says. The cost, meanwhile, would be minimal compared to other energy storage technologies. It would require larger facilities on the surface, but the storage space would be effectively free, since the EGS reservoirs are being built for electricity anyway.

In January, the team received $4.5 million in funding from the Advanced Research Projects Agency–Energy (ARPA-E) to demonstrate a full-scale test of geothermal reservoir energy storage in the field. The detailed findings of their modeling study appear in a paper published recently in the journal Applied Energy.

This article appears in the December 2022 print issue as “Hot Rocks Best Batteries for Energy Storage.”


The value of in-reservoir energy storage for flexible dispatch of geothermal power
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306261922002537#!

[kiwichick16]

not sure if this has been posted ....

https://www.newsweek.com/superhot-rock-geothermal-unlock-vast-amounts-clean-energy-1882436

.....1 % of superhot rocks could generate 63 terrawatts   .....more than 7 times global demand in 2021

they could be overly optimistic of course ............

[interstitial]

not sure if this has been posted ....

https://www.newsweek.com/superhot-rock-geothermal-unlock-vast-amounts-clean-energy-1882436

.....1 % of superhot rocks could generate 63 terrawatts   .....more than 7 times global demand in 2021

they could be overly optimistic of course ............

I am guessing that is based on the total global thermal flux without consideration to location, depth, accessibility or extraction efficiencies. It seems less likely but it may even be the heat in all the rock in the earth though I think that number would be much larger.

[kassy]

Well they say there are many locations.

If we do this you can then start putting much smaller operations near areas where you need it.
The big limiting factor is probably water use

[Freegrass]

Well they say there are many locations.

If we do this you can then start putting much smaller operations near areas where you need it.
The big limiting factor is probably water use

I don't think water use will be a very big problem in most cases, because water comes out of the well in enhanced systems, after which it is constantly circulated back into the system.

In a closed loop system - like the one from Eaver - you will need to fill up the well, and then again keep circulation the same water.

Not sure how much loss of water there would be from the release of steam during production and other things. Something I'll take a look at later.


I was just looking at this great video on Enhanced Geothermal Systems (EGS), and she convinced me that geothermal fracking could be done much more safely than oil fracking. Mostly due to the fact that they don't use chemicals in EGS. Just pure water.

And the earthquakes can be avoided, they say, because of years of experience in the oil industry.

What I like about EGS is that these systems could be used for energy storage as well. That would double their functionality for almost the same price. And that's pretty good if you ask me.

So do we like EGS, or not? I'm warming up to it thanks to this video. Curious how you all feel about it.

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Where heat is close to the surface tends to be on or near crust boundaries but where it is deeper is away from crust boundaries and the geology is more stable so earthquakes are less likely.


In a fracked well they drill a hole then pump a ton of water sand and other chemicals to open and keep open the cracks. Then for the geothermal well they pump clean water into it. The water picks up all sorts of minerals and depending on the minerals they need to be removed before the water can be used again.


In a closed loop much more drilling has to be done to get the same heat transfer but no chemicals or sand are pumped down. When the well is drilled by the millimeter wave laser the sides are sealed and the water does not pick up minerals or at least very little. This also has the advantage that the water does not have to be pumped down the hole except initially to start it. The water expanding into steam drives the circulation in closed loop systems once started. The energy used by circulating pumps is a huge energy drain on the non closed loop systems.


Fracked wells will have higher operational costs due to the pumping and the need to clean the water. Fracked wells will probably be much cheaper to build because there is less distance to be  drilled. This is just a guess though because the millimeter laser is expected to be much cheaper per meter. The costs of the deep closed well with millimeter laser or so called fusion tech are yet to be determined because the first one will be drilled this fall. 

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EGS whether fracked or closed loop are both good but closed loop is better if the cost is the same.


Water use can be high for tower or pond cooling or lower for closed loop or dry cooling. In general the cheaper to build the more expensive to run.

[morganism]

Tapping into the heat beneath Nevadans’ feet

Scientists and companies hope the generation of geothermal power in Nevada will one day lead the nation

With highly fractured, permeable ground, the Great Basin’s geology makes it one of the most geothermally rich areas in the world. Hot fluid rises easily toward the surface, ideal for driving power plants, and present-day Nevada is the second-largest producer of geothermal energy in the nation behind California.

Tapping into hot fluids below the ground to spin turbines in power plants that generate electricity and boasting a lower carbon footprint than many other power sources, geothermal accounts for about 9 percent of energy generated in Nevada. But that number could be much higher, scientists say. The Silver State could produce about 30 gigawatts (GW) of geothermal power — about 30 times more than it does now.
(snip)
The DOE estimates the nation needs between 700 and 900 GW of clean power by 2050 for a decarbonized economy, and geothermal has the potential to account for nearly 10 percent of that.

The United States has the most installed geothermal capacity in the world, generating 3.7 gigawatts of geothermal power at plants across the West, including more than two dozen in Nevada. Yet geothermal accounts for just 0.4 percent of the nation’s overall electricity.

The production of geothermal energy has taken off in fits and starts because it’s not as simple as putting up a solar panel or wind turbine, Faulds said.

“The Earth is complicated. You think you have a decent resource, and it doesn’t pan out,” he said. “There’s those kinds of things that make geothermal a little bit slower than some other forms of renewable energy.”

But with a low carbon footprint and the ability to continuously produce energy, scientists and energy experts think it has the potential to be a game changer in the nation’s push for clean energy.

And Nevada, the state with the greatest geothermal resources in the nation, has the chance to lead that charge, according to scientists and geothermal energy producers. Recently, major power purchase agreements were signed between geothermal producers and entities such as the University of Utah, Google, Southern California Public Power Authority and NV Energy for geothermal energy produced in Nevada, with some contracts extending as long as 40 years.

“We are now in a new wave of geothermal exploration,” said Cary Lindsey, geothermal research scientist with the Great Basin Center for Geothermal Energy.

Across the Great Basin, particularly in northwestern Nevada, the state’s crust is being pulled apart due to tectonic forces. That pulling motion results in the state’s land mass growing by roughly 2 acres per year.

That pulling of the crust is good for geothermal energy production, Faulds said.

“If the crust gets pulled apart, it gets thin, and you’re bringing hot mantle closer to the surface and you have a high geothermal gradient,” he said.

Geothermal power plants tap into those hot fluids below the ground to spin turbines in power plants that generate electricity. Power can be generated from fluids with temperatures higher than 194 degrees Fahrenheit.

Nevada has 27 geothermal plants, mostly in the northern portion of the state, that combined have the capacity to generate up to 827 megawatts of power at any given time, although many don’t operate at full capacity and only about half that amount is transferred to the grid. A megawatt is 1,000 kilowatts, enough to power as many as 800 households.

That number is likely to grow substantially.

The Nevada Division of Minerals has received more than three dozen permit applications for geothermal exploration so far this year, a number fluid minerals manager Dustin Holcomb calls “just bonkers.”

Revenue from geothermal in the state is increasing as well. The state collected $14.3 million in geothermal leases and royalties last year, up from slightly less than $10 million in 2022 and $8.5 million in 2021. All geothermal rentals and royalties are split 50/25/25 between the state, the generating county and the federal government.

The DOE is pouring substantial funding into geothermal research across the Great Basin. The focus is largely on enhanced geothermal, which often utilizes horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing technology developed by the oil and gas industry. This technology reaches heat in areas untappable by conventional geothermal plants, using drilling and hydraulic fracturing to allow fluid to move through hot rock that was previously impermeable.

The DOE has an enhanced geothermal test site in Utah — FORGE — focused on higher drilling speeds and decreased implementation costs. The technologies tested at FORGE are being utilized in Nevada at a project developed by Fervo Energy in partnership with Google and being used to power its data centers.

While the technology for enhanced geothermal continues to get fleshed out, the department is also focusing on conventional geothermal energy production.

UNR’s Great Basin Center for Geothermal Energy’s INGENIOUS project received $10 million in federal funding to map out and build a playbook for conventional geothermal energy production — geothermal that doesn’t rely on fracking.

The goal is to map geothermally favorable resources across the Great Basin and create a template for geothermal exploration, Faulds said. Nearly half of the region’s geothermal resources are hidden, meaning they have no above-ground outlet such as a hot spring, and they are often discovered by accident, Faulds said, during mineral exploration or while drilling an agricultural well.

The need for more data and environmental oversight

Geothermal isn’t a panacea though.

“Solar, wind, geothermal — they all have their own environmental impacts. Some are more well understood than others,” Jaina Moan, external affairs director for The Nature Conservancy’s Northern Nevada Field Office, said after the symposium. “There’s drawbacks to any technology we deploy.”

Historically, conventional geothermal exploration didn’t take surface expressions such as hot springs into consideration, as evidenced by the ongoing battle over a proposed geothermal plant in the Dixie Valley area that could threaten an endangered toad. Hot springs in the area are home to the endangered Dixie Valley toad, and a report by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service — the agency that listed the toad as endangered at the behest of the Center for Biological Diversity — found that operating a geothermal plant in the area would have significant impact in Dixie Valley by reducing or eliminating discharge into the wetlands.

But technology and science are increasing understanding of the Earth's subsurface, its complexity and the relationship between hydrology and geology and mitigating those issues, Faulds said, adding that creating a database documenting hot springs, nearby energy developments and ensuing environmental impacts — a database that is currently lacking — would benefit industry and conservationists alike and could help prevent environmental issues in the future.

But the federal government seems to be heading in the opposite direction.

Earlier this month, the Bureau of Land Management adopted categorical exclusions to expedite geothermal exploration permitting. If the agency determines an exploratory project meets exclusionary criteria, the exploratory project can bypass the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and avoid drafting an environmental assessment for permitting exploration, although any subsequent development would require NEPA analysis.

The details of the exclusions have not been outlined by the Bureau of Land Management and is a confusing approach to policy making, Patrick Donnelly, Great Basin director for the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a call with The Nevada Independent.

“Why would you issue these categorical exclusions without sharing what they are?” he asked. “Without having seen the exclusions, we don’t know if there’s an issue or not … but how are we to know?”

And ultimately, much of the renewable energy produced in the Silver State is exported across state lines, according to Faulds.

This exporting of geothermal power means that Nevada’s landscape — yet again — bears the brunt of clean energy generation while reaping just a fraction of the benefits.

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/tapping-into-the-heat-beneath-nevadans-feet

[Freegrass]

Eavor receives EUR 45 million loan for Geretsried geothermal project, Germany

https://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/eavor-signs-geothermal-heat-supply-contract-in-hanover-germany/

Eavor Technologies has received a loan of close to EUR 45 million from the European Investment Bank (EIB) to support the commercial-scale Eavor-Loop geothermal project in the town of Geretsried in Bavaria, Germany. The EIB loan comes with a guarantee by the European InvestEU programme.

The project is co-financed by Japan Bank for International Cooperation (JBIC), ING Bank N.V. (ING) and Mizuho Bank, Ltd. (Mizuho) and is insured by Japan’s Export Credit Agency, Nippon Export and Investment Insurance (NEXI). It qualifies as a green loan in accordance with the Loan Market Association’s Green Loan Principles. The combined support from the EIB, JBIC, ING and Mizuho amounts to €130 million. Green Giraffe Advisory acted as the sole financial advisor to the Borrower to structure the debt financing package.

The project is also being developed with the support of a EUR 91.6-million grant from the EU Innovation Fund.

Eavor’s total investment is expected to reach €350 million. The Eavor-Loop will provide heating to households and businesses, as well as electricity. Eavor has already signed an offtake contract with the local heat-provider and intends to start heat delivery in 2026, increasing the supply stepwise. Eavor-Loop has started developing a second project in Germany to supply 15-20% of the demand for district heating in Hanover in the German state of Lower Saxony.

“We are impressed and honoured that, after the EU Innovation Fund, the European Investment Bank is now also co-financing our project in Geretsried. Europe has recognised that the Eavor-LoopTM is a scalable key technology for achieving climate neutrality and significantly more energy security on this continent,” said Daniel Mölk, Executive Vice President Europe Operations of Eavor.

“In addition to wind- and solar-energy, geothermal heat provides a natural, steady and reliable source of clean renewable energy. The Eavor-LoopTM therefore supports the transition to a carbon-neutral energy system in Germany and helps the country to get independent from fossil fuels, while adding to energy security for the people and businesses,” added Nicola Beer, EIB Vice-President with oversight of financing in Germany.

“This project will provide low-carbon heating to thousands of households and businesses. It is an example of the role the geothermal industry will play on the road to net-zero. Switching from fossil fuels to geothermal energy can help decarbonise the EU population’s energy needs and reduce our energy bills,” further commented Wopke Hoekstra, Commissioner for Climate Action.

[Freegrass]

Eavor signs geothermal heat supply contract in Hanover, Germany

https://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/eavor-signs-geothermal-heat-supply-contract-in-hanover-germany/

Eavor GmbH (Eavor) has signed a heat supply contract with regional utility Enercity AG for the city of Hanover in Lower Saxony, Germany. Under the contract, the plan will be to supply up to 30 MW of geothermal heat for the district heating grid of Hanover using the Eavor-Loop™ technology. The drilling work is set to start by 2025 and the operation of the first loop is expected by 2026.

As soon as the first well is confirmed to deliver heat, Enercity plans to build the infrastructure to connect the future site to the district heating network. The planned geothermal heating facility is expected to supply up to 250 million kWh of heat per year, 15% to 20% of the city’s annual district heating needs or corresponding to the demand of around 20,000 households.

Enercity is currently relying on a combination of large-scale heat pumps and river, industrial, and waste heat in efforts to transition to green alternatives. The goal of the utility company is to phase out not just coal, but also natural gas.

The long-term heat supply agreement between the two companies is an important prerequisite for further steps in the project, including the issuance of mining permits.

“The heat from the depths makes an essential contribution to ensuring that a third of the people in Hanover will be able to heat with climate-neutral district heating in 2027,” says enercity CEO Dr. Susanna Zapreva. “The plant with the innovative geothermal energy generation will be the first metropolitan application of its kind and will enable us to decommission even the last coal block in our generation portfolio.”

Eavor is currently in the process of drilling for the first commercial-scale deployment of the Eavor-Loop™ technology in Geretsried in Bavaria. A few weeks ago, the project was visited by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Bavaria’s Prime Minister Markus Söder in a show of support from the German government.

“We are looking forward to this project and to using our technology to contribute to converting a significant part of the base load of the city of Hanover’s district heating supply to renewable and independent energy,” says Daniel Mölk, Managing Director of Eavor GmbH.

[Freegrass]

Another great video from Sabine on geothermal.

[Freegrass]

Pretty good new video on geothermal, with an interview of the CEO of Quaise Energy, the drilling company that will start drilling with their new technology in the coming months. Definitely worth a watch.

[morganism]

Another article on Quaise and the microwave drilling tech for geothermal.)

 Fusion Tech Finds Geothermal Energy Application

MIT spinoff eyes microwave drills as route to robust geothermal rewards

Now, an MIT spin-off says it has found a solution in an innovative technology that could dramatically reduce the costs and timelines of drilling to fantastic depths. Quaise Energy, based in Cambridge, Mass., plans to deploy what are called gyrotron drills to vaporize rock using powerful microwaves.

A gyrotron uses high-power, linear-beam vacuum tubes to generate millimeter-length electromagnetic waves. Invented by Soviet scientists in the 1960s, gyrotrons are used in nuclear fusion research experiments to heat and control plasma. Quaise has raised $95 million from investors, including Japan’s Mitsubishi, to develop technology that would enable it to quickly and efficiently drill up to 20 km deep, closer to the Earth’s core than ever before.
(snip)
Using the waveguide to direct energy to the targeted rock allows the energy source to stay on the surface. That may sound like a stretch, but the concept was tested in a 1970s experiment in which Bell Labs built a 14 km waveguide transmission medium in northern New Jersey. The researchers found that it could transmit millimeter waves with very little attenuation.

Quaise intends to first target industrial customers with a need for steam at a guaranteed flow rate, temperature, and pressure. “Our goal is to match the specs of an industrial load,” says Araque. “They can retire the boiler, and we’ll give them 500º C steam on-site.”

Eventually, the company hopes the technology could enable new geothermal electric plants, or allow turbines formerly heated by fossil fuels to be repurposed—supplying the grid with an estimated 25-50 megawatts of electricity from each well.

The company plans to begin field demonstrations this autumn, using a prototype device to drill holes in hard rock at a site in Marble Falls, Tex. From there, Quaise plans to build a full-size demonstration rig in a high-geothermal zone in the western United States.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/geothermal-energy-gyrotron-quaise

[Freegrass]

New video from Eavor, with a pretty good sales pitch for geothermal district heating. Sounds like they're ready to go full scale. The drilling in Germany must be going well.

[Freegrass]

Here's why geothermal systems could be better for storing renewable energy than batteries (Nov 2, 2022)

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/11/geothermal-renewable-energy-storage/

• Enhanced geothermal systems can tap into heat energy deep underground the Earth’s surface.
• New research says they could also be better than existing technologies like batteries for storing excess renewable energy from wind and solar power.
• Production of renewable energy is growing, but finding the best ways to store it will be critical to help the world decarbonize.

For thousands of years, people have used naturally occurring hot springs to cook food, heat their homes and even bathe in. This kind of energy is known as geothermal.

Electricity has been produced from geothermal sources for more than a century. The first geothermal power plants came online at the beginning of the 20th century. They use technology that drills underground and harnesses steam and hot water in the subsurface of the Earth. This heat then powers turbines that produce electricity.

Geothermal energy covers a significant amount of electricity demand in countries in tectonically active regions such as Iceland, New Zealand, Kenya and the Philippines. They take advantage of being able to drill wells straight into hydrothermal reservoirs that already exist.

Enhanced geothermal systems (EGS), on the other hand, are able to capture heat from areas that traditional geothermal energy cannot, where subsurface fluid and permeability are lacking. They drill deeper into the ground to create artificial thermal reservoirs.

“EGS inject water to tap the heat from hot rock, transforming it into a working geothermal reservoir,” the US Department of Energy says. “By engineering a natural system, geothermal energy can produce power anywhere there is heat in the subsurface.”


Enhanced geothermal systems can draw heat energy from a wider range of sources than traditional geothermal power plants.

Using enhanced geothermal systems to store renewable energy

As renewable energy capacity in the form of solar and wind power increases, so does the need to store the electricity these sources generate. This is because power from renewables can fluctuate, as the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow.

Storage technology such as batteries is often used to store excess energy when demand is low and to release it when demand is high, ensuring a steady supply to the grid. However, new research has found that advanced geothermal systems are well suited to the storage of renewable power, and that they could do so at minimal cost compared with other technologies.

This is because advanced geothermal reservoirs can store surplus power generated by wind or solar in the form of hot water or steam, a team from Princeton University and advanced geothermal developer Fervo Energy found. This heat can then be used to turn electricity turbines when renewable power isn’t available.

The researchers’ results show that electricity could be stored for many days, and as efficiently as with lithium-ion batteries. “The storage capacity effectively comes free of charge with construction of a geothermal reservoir,” Princeton researcher Wilson Ricks told the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE). “It would allow next-generation geothermal plants to break from the traditional baseload operating paradigm and earn much greater value as suppliers of wind and solar” – thereby boosting all three renewable technologies.

The IEEE says EGS systems could then be an ideal solution to store energy as well as produce electricity. “Excess wind or solar energy could be used to inject water into the artificial reservoirs, where it would accumulate and build up pressure. The production wells could then be opened up when electricity is needed.”

The push for geothermal energy

The US Department of Energy (DOE) estimates that there are more than five terawatts of heat resources in the US – that’s enough to meet the entire world’s energy needs. It says that capturing even a small fraction of this could power 40 million American homes.

The DOE has launched an initiative known as the Enhanced Geothermal Shot that aims to cut the cost of EGS by 90% by 2035.

“The US has a vast, geothermal energy resource lying right beneath our feet and this programme will make it economical to bring that power to American households and businesses,” US Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm says.

Widespread deployment of geothermal heating and cooling would open up routes to decarbonization for entire communities, the DOE adds.

Renewable energy capacity is growing globally

To keep global warming to less than 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels, global emissions need to reach net zero by 2050, according to United Nations estimates.

As the power generation sector is responsible for around a third of total global carbon emissions, it will need to fully decarbonize by 2040 to allow us to meet our climate goals, according to estimates by McKinsey.

More than a third of global electricity production comes from low-carbon sources and the share is rising. Renewable capacity is expected to increase by more than 8% in 2022, with solar power forecast to account for 60% of that increase, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA).


Solar will account for most new renewable energy capacity in 2022-23.

However, the IEA says while the number of countries pledging to achieve net zero over the coming decades continues to grow, their combined efforts still fall well short of giving the world a chance of limiting global temperature rise to 1.5°C.

To reach net zero emissions by 2050, annual clean energy investment globally will need to triple to around $5 trillion by 2030, the IEA says. There will also have to be “immediate and massive deployment of all available clean and efficient energy technologies”, it says.

Geothermal and its energy-storage potential could have a significant part to play in that.
Geothermal May Beat Batteries for Energy Storage Enhanced geothermal systems are well suited to store excess renewable power as heat

https://spectrum.ieee.org/geothermal-energy

UPDATE—29 Nov. 2023: Earlier this month one of the companies profiled below reached an important milestone in their landmark enhanced geothermal energy plant. As noted below, Fervo energy had before this year run extensive simulations that demonstrated the viability of enhanced geothermal as a competitive baseload renewable power source. In July of this year, the company announced their successful full-scale test of their Nevada 3.5 megawatt test plant called “Project Red.” (They also broke ground in September on a more ambitious 400-MW plant in Beaver County, Utah, which they project will open for business in 2026 and reach full-scale operation by 2028.) For Project Red, as comparatively humble as its size scale may be, it still notched an achievement in delivering electrons to its local utility grid, servicing among a number of clients, a Google data center. As the AP reported on 28 November, the signal achievement of delivering enhanced geothermal energy at utility scale “could be a milestone for clean energy.” And unlike most other clean energy sources, there’s no attendant call for battery storage or other baseload solutions that could balance out the intermittency of this new energy source across the power lines. As a geothermal plant, Project Red is, by design, baseload power. That’s milestone aplenty right there. —IEEE Spectrum

Geothermal systems carry warmth from Earth’s interior up to the surface for heating or electricity. But geothermal power plants are expensive to build, and will get even less economically viable as wind and solar power get cheaper and more plentiful. However, even as wind and solar grow, so does the need to store electricity from those temperamental sources.

A new proposal could solve those issues and bolster all three renewable technologies. The idea is simple—use advanced geothermal reservoirs to store excess wind and solar power in the form of hot water or steam, and bring up that heat when wind and solar aren’t available, to turn turbines for electricity.

“It would allow next-generation geothermal plants to break from the traditional baseload operating paradigm and earn much greater value as suppliers of wind and solar,” says Wilson Ricks, a graduate student in mechanical and aerospace engineering at Princeton University.

Ricks, his Ph.D. advisor Jesse Jenkins, and Jack Norbeck, cofounder and chief technology officer of Houston-based advanced geothermal developer Fervo Energy, ran extensive simulations of such geothermal reservoir energy storage to see if the technical components of the system as well as the economics actually work out. They found that the systems could indeed store electricity over a range of time scales, from a few hours up to many days, as efficiently as lithium-ion batteries. Plus, says Ricks, “the storage capacity effectively comes free of charge with construction of a geothermal reservoir.”

Their results apply only to enhanced geothermal plants, like the ones Fervo and other companies such as Cambridge, Mass.–based Quaise Energy and Seattle-based AltaRock Energy are developing.

Conventional geothermal systems drill wells into naturally occurring hydrothermal reservoirs. But these pockets of hot water deep underground do not exist everywhere. In the United States, for instance, they are mostly located in the west.

Enhanced geothermal systems (EGS) get around this geographical limitation by creating artificial reservoirs. Developers create fractures in hot, dry rock formations by drilling into or melting the rock, and then injecting water into the fissures. Production wells bring the heated water up for producing electricity. “For scales necessary to contribute to national or global electricity decarbonization, we need to be able to extract geothermal heat outside of conventional formations,” Ricks says.

Fervo Energy raised US $138 million in venture capital funding in August to advance its technology. The company uses innovations from the oil and gas industry, such as horizontal drilling and distributed fiber-optic sensing, to create underground reservoirs. The company plans to use the new funds to complete two pilot projects, including one with Google in Nevada.

Once these EGS systems are in place, they would be ideal for storing energy as well as producing electricity. Excess wind or solar energy could be used to inject water into the artificial reservoirs, where it would accumulate and build up pressure. The production wells could then be opened up when electricity is needed.

“EGS reservoirs are created in rock formations that are naturally impermeable; everything outside the artificial reservoir is sealed off,” says Ricks. “It’s very similar to a hydropower reservoir, where you choose when to have water go through the dam and generate electricity.”

Depending on the geology and traits of the rocks, Ricks and his colleagues’ simulations found that the systems could store energy with up to 90 percent efficiency over one cycle. That’s comparable with lithium-ion and pumped hydro storage, he says. The cost, meanwhile, would be minimal compared to other energy storage technologies. It would require larger facilities on the surface, but the storage space would be effectively free, since the EGS reservoirs are being built for electricity anyway.

In January, the team received $4.5 million in funding from the Advanced Research Projects Agency–Energy (ARPA-E) to demonstrate a full-scale test of geothermal reservoir energy storage in the field. The detailed findings of their modeling study appear in a paper published recently in the journal Applied Energy.

[Richard Rathbone]

90% efficiency is 100% bollocks. Its not going to happen in a heat engine. They'd need their steam turbine operating at 3000K to make it even theoretically possible. I don't know how they are fiddling the energy balance to get 90%, I can see at least a couple of possibilities, but they are definitely fiddling it.

[Freegrass]

90% efficiency is 100% bollocks. Its not going to happen in a heat engine. They'd need their steam turbine operating at 3000K to make it even theoretically possible. I don't know how they are fiddling the energy balance to get 90%, I can see at least a couple of possibilities, but they are definitely fiddling it.

I'm guessing that they mean 90% efficiency before conversion. You pump the water in, and it comes out at 90% efficiency. What happens after that is normal efficiency ratings for turbines or district heating. But I'm only guessing here. All this is so new, so let's find out.

[morganism]

Largest Geothermal Development in America Taking Shape in Utah

(...)
“As electrification increases and climate change burdens already fragile infrastructure, geothermal will only play a bigger role in U.S. power markets,” says Dawn Owens, VP, Head of Development & Commercial Markets for Fervo Energy. “Fervo looks forward to continuing to meet these needs, providing firm, clean power to help balance California’s energy portfolio.”

When the 400 MW Cape Station is fully operational in 2028, it will be the largest in America. Yet, it still provides less than a percent of our nation's energy. As drilling techniques improve, taking examples from oil and gas drilling to allow deeper penetration, there is optimism that geothermal will grow rapidly.

“If these purchases help to get this technology off the ground, it could be massively impactful for global decarbonization,” says Wilson Ricks, an energy systems researcher at Princeton University.

Fervo's experiments with horizontal drilling in heat reservoirs open new possibilities for mining the Earth's heat. Reversing the climate crisis will require harnessing our planet's reusable resources above and below ground.

https://mymodernmet.com/california-geothermal-project/

[Freegrass]

Nice find Morganism! I have high hopes for geothermal. When the oil industry sees money in it, things could accelerate very quickly, because all the rigs already exist.

One thing I've been wondering about is how much energy you could get out of a fracked oil well versus a fracked geothermal well. They both produce energy, but which produces more? How much energy do you get out of each of them daily? How much over the lifetime of a well? I'm pretty sure that geothermal wells can last for a very long time. When they get too cold, you wait some years for the rocks to heat up again, and start again, no? But when the oil runs out, it's game over. So would geothermal actually produce more energy at a cheaper price over the lifetime of a well? I have no idea how to calculate that.

I know people here don't like it much, but I've asked ChatGPT again, just to get the conversation started. And if these numbers are right, and I think they are, then I'm wondering why the frack we're still drilling for oil.

From now on, I will say that we can get at least as much energy out of a fracked geothermal well, than out of a fracked oil well. And I wouldn't be lying, would I?

But fracked geothermal also comes with a free battery. 

See PDF below.

[morganism]

Every building sits on a thermal asset’: how networked geothermal power could change cities
Snowfall at Times Square, New York, in February. Buildings could draw heat from water pumped from below their foundations, instead of burning natural gas. Photograph: Anadolu/Getty Images

The ground is humming with geothermal energy that could heat or cool our homes – and now the big US utilities are starting to take note

(...)
Eversource Energy and two dozen other utilities, representing 47% of the US’s natural gas customers, have now joined into an information-sharing coalition called the Utility Networked Geothermal Collaborative.

“We’ve made a point to think about: are we really a gas company, or are we a thermal energy delivery company?” said Holly Braun, business development and innovation manager at the Oregon utility NW Natural, which co-founded the coalition.

A heat pump in a geothermal system works the same way as an air source pump, only instead of extracting heat from air, the appliance extracts it from the water that has been coursing underground. In the summer, the heat pump cools a space by injecting indoor heat into the water, which is then pumped back into the Earth. That helps warm up the ground, recharging the subterranean battery so there is plenty of energy to extract in the winter.

A networked geothermal system is extremely efficient. It scores a “coefficient of performance”, or Cop, of 6, meaning for every one unit of energy going in, you get six units of heat out. By contrast, gas furnaces have a Cop of less than 1.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/aug/09/every-building-sits-on-a-thermal-asset-how-networked-geothermal-power-could-change-cities

[Freegrass]

Every building sits on a thermal asset’: how networked geothermal power could change cities
Snowfall at Times Square, New York, in February. Buildings could draw heat from water pumped from below their foundations, instead of burning natural gas. Photograph: Anadolu/Getty Images

The ground is humming with geothermal energy that could heat or cool our homes – and now the big US utilities are starting to take note

(...)
Eversource Energy and two dozen other utilities, representing 47% of the US’s natural gas customers, have now joined into an information-sharing coalition called the Utility Networked Geothermal Collaborative.

“We’ve made a point to think about: are we really a gas company, or are we a thermal energy delivery company?” said Holly Braun, business development and innovation manager at the Oregon utility NW Natural, which co-founded the coalition.

A heat pump in a geothermal system works the same way as an air source pump, only instead of extracting heat from air, the appliance extracts it from the water that has been coursing underground. In the summer, the heat pump cools a space by injecting indoor heat into the water, which is then pumped back into the Earth. That helps warm up the ground, recharging the subterranean battery so there is plenty of energy to extract in the winter.

A networked geothermal system is extremely efficient. It scores a “coefficient of performance”, or Cop, of 6, meaning for every one unit of energy going in, you get six units of heat out. By contrast, gas furnaces have a Cop of less than 1.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/aug/09/every-building-sits-on-a-thermal-asset-how-networked-geothermal-power-could-change-cities

“That means you have a higher efficiency with a ground-source system, which, of course, helps then with running costs,” said Jan Rosenow, who studies heat pumps at the Regulatory Assistance Project, a global energy NGO.

So my quantum activism is paying off BC. I had a good chat about geothermal and district heating with Jan Rosenow on Twitter a few weeks ago. 

[Freegrass]

Nice find Morganism! I have high hopes for geothermal. When the oil industry sees money in it, things could accelerate very quickly, because all the rigs already exist.

One thing I've been wondering about is how much energy you could get out of a fracked oil well versus a fracked geothermal well. They both produce energy, but which produces more? How much energy do you get out of each of them daily? How much over the lifetime of a well? I'm pretty sure that geothermal wells can last for a very long time. When they get too cold, you wait some years for the rocks to heat up again, and start again, no? But when the oil runs out, it's game over. So would geothermal actually produce more energy at a cheaper price over the lifetime of a well? I have no idea how to calculate that.

I know people here don't like it much, but I've asked ChatGPT again, just to get the conversation started. And if these numbers are right, and I think they are, then I'm wondering why the frack we're still drilling for oil.

From now on, I will say that we can get at least as much energy out of a fracked geothermal well, than out of a fracked oil well. And I wouldn't be lying, would I?

But fracked geothermal also comes with a free battery. 

See PDF below.

I was able to convert that PDF to an image file. Difficult to just post the text and keep the formatting.

Has anyone checked already? Are these calculations correct?

Lifetime Production Estimate: A well might produce 500,000 to 1.5 million barrels of oil over its
lifetime.

• 500,000 barrels: 500, 000 1.7MWh = 850, 000 MWh
• 1,500,000 barrels: 1, 500, 000 x 1.7 MWh = 2, 550, 000 MWh
• Average = 1, 700, 000 MW

Lifetime Production Estimate: Geothermal wells can operate for decades, often 30-50 years or more.

• Over 30 years at 2 MW: 48 MWh/day 365 days/year 30 years = 525, 600 MWh
• Over 50 years at 10 MW: 240 MWh/day 365 days/year x 50 years = 4, 380, 000 MWh
• Average = 2, 452, 800 MW

[Freegrass]

Nice find Morganism! I have high hopes for geothermal. When the oil industry sees money in it, things could accelerate very quickly, because all the rigs already exist.

One thing I've been wondering about is how much energy you could get out of a fracked oil well versus a fracked geothermal well. They both produce energy, but which produces more? How much energy do you get out of each of them daily? How much over the lifetime of a well? I'm pretty sure that geothermal wells can last for a very long time. When they get too cold, you wait some years for the rocks to heat up again, and start again, no? But when the oil runs out, it's game over. So would geothermal actually produce more energy at a cheaper price over the lifetime of a well? I have no idea how to calculate that.

I know people here don't like it much, but I've asked ChatGPT again, just to get the conversation started. And if these numbers are right, and I think they are, then I'm wondering why the frack we're still drilling for oil.

From now on, I will say that we can get at least as much energy out of a fracked geothermal well, than out of a fracked oil well. And I wouldn't be lying, would I?

But fracked geothermal also comes with a free battery. 

See PDF below.

I was able to convert that PDF to an image file. Difficult to just post the text and keep the formatting.

Has anyone checked already? Are these calculations correct?

Lifetime Production Estimate: A well might produce 500,000 to 1.5 million barrels of oil over its
lifetime.

• 500,000 barrels: 500, 000 1.7MWh = 850, 000 MWh
• 1,500,000 barrels: 1, 500, 000 x 1.7 MWh = 2, 550, 000 MWh
• Average = 1, 700, 000 MW

Lifetime Production Estimate: Geothermal wells can operate for decades, often 30-50 years or more.

• Over 30 years at 2 MW: 48 MWh/day 365 days/year 30 years = 525, 600 MWh
• Over 50 years at 10 MW: 240 MWh/day 365 days/year x 50 years = 4, 380, 000 MWh
• Average = 2, 452, 800 MW

Anyone? I desperately want to know if these numbers are realistic.

[wehappyfew]

Anyone? I desperately want to know if these numbers are realistic.

I think you have some apples vs oranges problems.

Fracked oil wells are drilled into oil-rich shale source rock. The permeability of shale is extremely low, thus fracking is need to create fractures which have high permeability. A small fraction of the oil in the source rock - the oil adjacent to the network of fractures - is available to flow out. You've found the typical volumes of oil produced by the average fracked oil well over its entire lifetime, roughly a million barrels. Good start.

One million barrels = 159 million liters
Over a lifetime of 20 years, that is 159,000,000/20/365/24/3600 = 0.25 liters per second (if I have the math right)

A more useful number is the initial production for a newly drilled well. which is about 1,000 barrels/day = 1.8 liters per second.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=54079

So an equivalent geothermal energy fracked well producing 48 MWh/day = 2,000 kW = 2,000,000 Joules/sec

From the heat capacity of water, 4.186 Joules/gram/degC, we would need to extract a temperature difference of 265 degC to get that much energy from 1.8 liters/sec. Divide that by the Carnot efficiency of the geothermal heat engine - maybe 33% at best - we need 3 times that.

We are not going to find 750degC geothermal resources at typical fracked well depths. Alternatively, the energy output of hot water from even the deepest fracked well is a tiny fraction of 2,000 kW when the flow rate is a few liters/sec.

So how do geothermal wells get 2,000 kW per well?

Much, much higher flow rates. From much more permeable hot water reservoirs, from much shallower depths that fracked oil wells. Generally very close to volcanic activity.

There is plenty of relatively hot dry rocks at great depths essentially everywhere - no volcanoes needed. But those rocks are very tight, with essentially no permeability, and being deep, the rocks are generally granitic or something similar - thus very tough and hard. Not easy to drill through. So with great difficulty, we could drill a very deep well, frack it, and then get some amount of energy from it, for a few decades. This heat is not renewable on human time scales - once we cool off the rocks they won't warm up again from deeper geothermal heat for many millennia. So we'll need to drill a new well to replace it.

The TLDR answer to your question:

With current drilling and fracking technology, deep hot dry rock geothermal energy is not cost competitive. It may not even be EROEI positive. Geothermal near volcanoes is very competitive, renewable, and dispatchable,  but does not scale well. There aren't enough hot water reservoirs near volcanoes. Thus the interest in drilling directly into magma chambers. With technology that doesn't exist yet.

[Freegrass]

With current drilling and fracking technology, deep hot dry rock geothermal energy is not cost competitive. It may not even be EROEI positive.

Thanks happy! I'll have to let that sink in for a while. I was just about to post this article I was reading, from Fervo Energy, who have already successfully drilled a 3.5 MW EGW for Google.

And while reading the article, I found this quote.

https://www.seequent.com/fervo-energys-pioneering-enhanced-geothermal-technologies/#new_tab

Numerical reservoir simulation models calibrated with the project’s field data suggest a clear innovation pathway to be able to increase power capacity up to 8 MW of electric power per production well.

So what's 8 MW?

Studies show there is enough subsurface heat around the world to meet a significant portion of global energy demand. With Fervo’s advancements in drilling and subsurface analytics – showing geothermal to be reliable, cost competitive, and globally scalable – paving the way for commercial geothermal energy technology.

In September 2023, the company broke ground on a next-generation geothermal energy project, the 400-MW Cape Station, next to FORGE in Utah, expected to begin delivering power to the grid in 2026 and reach full-scale around-the-clock production in 2028.

There's more news on the Fervo website. So there's much to read and study again. But I think this is the right path to go. Those free batteries that come with it are the moneymaker IMHO. You put the well under pressure with almost free energy that otherwise would have to be curtailed, and you release it when energy demand spikes. A battery that never runs out.
https://fervoenergy.com/news/

[interstitial]

those ultradeep tight rocks offer several advantages. If you choose to not fracture the rock but instead seal the drill wall with new millimeter wave drilling technology you can reinject the water with out processing it to remove unwanted toxic minerals. You can also do not need a major portion of the energy to pump the water down the well. In a closed loop once started the expansion of heated water will drive the cycle without additional energy. This has been demonstrated for several years now. An ultradeep well will not be drilled with traditional fracking technology. Traditional drilling will be used to get to harder bedrock. It may be drilled by millimeter wave technology. This substantially change the EROI calculation.
https://www.quaise.energy/

[Freegrass]

those ultradeep tight rocks offer several advantages. If you choose to not fracture the rock but instead seal the drill wall with new millimeter wave drilling technology you can reinject the water with out processing it to remove unwanted toxic minerals. You can also do not need a major portion of the energy to pump the water down the well. In a closed loop once started the expansion of heated water will drive the cycle without additional energy. This has been demonstrated for several years now. An ultradeep well will not be drilled with traditional fracking technology. Traditional drilling will be used to get to harder bedrock. It may be drilled by millimeter wave technology. This substantially change the EROI calculation.
https://www.quaise.energy/

Yes, a closed loop system is what Eavor is doing in Germany.

I love that technology too, for the reasons you mention. But that system can't be used as a battery. And I think the energy they can produce will be less too. But I'm not sure about that.

It's going to be interesting to see how these technologies will compete. Fracking is not allowed in Europe, so I expect Eavor to be more active here.

And Quaise will be a game changer. They are supposed to be testing their drill next month.

[johnm33]

those ultradeep tight rocks offer several advantages. If you choose to not fracture the rock but instead seal the drill wall with new millimeter wave drilling technology you can reinject the water with out processing it to remove unwanted toxic minerals. You can also do not need a major portion of the energy to pump the water down the well. In a closed loop once started the expansion of heated water will drive the cycle without additional energy. This has been demonstrated for several years now. An ultradeep well will not be drilled with traditional fracking technology. Traditional drilling will be used to get to harder bedrock. It may be drilled by millimeter wave technology. This substantially change the EROI calculation.
https://www.quaise.energy/
[/quote
Iirc at Kola the granite wasn't 'set', so a gel or semi-liquid, below about 12k and once they reached that depth the drilling mud resurfaced 'boiling' with hydrogen, of course it got hotter faster than anyone had anticipated but in similar scenarios how would the vitrification work?

[Freegrass]

I've done another calculation.

America drilled around 22,600 wells in 2022. (Source)
It was estimated that about 70-80% of new oil and gas wells drilled in the U.S. were fracked. This translates to roughly 15,820 to 18,080 fracked wells out of the 22,600 total wells drilled.
According to previous research posted here, one fracked geothermal well can produce 8MW of power. Or 70 GW/h a year.
70 x 15,000 wells that can possibly be drilled = 1,050,000 GW/h
The total energy consumption of the U.S. in 2023 was approximately 27,426,000,000 GWh.

27,426,000,000/1,050,000=26,120 years of drilling. That can't be right, can it?

[interstitial]

Freegrass that should read 27,426,000,000 MWh not GWh. That means 26 years of drilling.

The US is producing record production 13.3 million barrels of oil a day from 588 drilling rigs but was using 1800 drilling rigs in 2014 to pump 8.8 million barrels of oil a day. So drilling efficiency has improved. Even the last two years has seen time to drill new wells decrease significantly.

https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/us-rig-count/2014

[Freegrass]

Freegrass that should read 27,426,000,000 MWh not GWh. That means 26 years of drilling.

The US is producing record production 13.3 million barrels of oil a day from 588 drilling rigs but was using 1800 drilling rigs in 2014 to pump 8.8 million barrels of oil a day. So drilling efficiency has improved. Even the last two years has seen time to drill new wells decrease significantly.

https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/us-rig-count/2014

That sounds a lot more plausible. Thank you!
So by the time we're finished drilling, the first wells will start to run out of juice. Unless they last for 50 years.
And we don't need that many! We still have all the regular renewables. So maybe 10 years to drill all those geothermal batteries?

I came up with a name today for the plan I'm brewing up in my head. The 10-20-50 Climate Commitment. 10 years to extract 20 gigatons of CO2 annually, with a 50% reduction or more in emissions. We'd be carbon-neutral in 10 years, and carbon negative in 11.

Every good plan requires a simple slogan. Something people easily understand, and I think that's a plan that everyone can understand. And it's certainly doable! Now we need to work out the details of how to get there realistically. I'm sure it can be done.

And then I have to find a way to write it all down in a proper document so that it can be sent out into the world before COP29. But that will be difficult for me. I'm gonna need help with that.

[Freegrass]

Freegrass that should read 27,426,000,000 MWh not GWh. That means 26 years of drilling.

It took 20 years to build the new Finland nuclear reactor with a capacity of 1.6 GW.
Maybe they should have been drilling instead?
200 fracked geothermal wells x 8MW = 1600 MW
Price difference?

Fracking vs Nucelar.
Both hated.
One will remain insanely expensive and dangerous.
The other harmless with a bad reputation (if I can believe the video below).

Those frack boys must know what they're doing now, right?
I didn't see burning water online anymore like in the early days of fracking.

And for geothermal fracking, they don't need the nasty chemicals.