Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....  (Read 586292 times)

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5800 on: October 04, 2018, 06:27:21 PM »
An even larger amount of hydrogen must continually be manufactured.  (See efficiency numbers in the chart above.)

Not the argument to use, Hydrogen comes from water, the by products are negligible and, so long as it is produced with renewable energy, is 100% clean in both production and use.

My main issues with Hydrogen are production when renewables are not available, storage without loss and usage in an efficient way (burning it in an ICE is horrendously inefficient given the cost of energy to produce it).
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5801 on: October 04, 2018, 07:16:39 PM »
An even larger amount of hydrogen must continually be manufactured.  (See efficiency numbers in the chart above.)

Not the argument to use, Hydrogen comes from water, the by products are negligible and, so long as it is produced with renewable energy, is 100% clean in both production and use.

My main issues with Hydrogen are production when renewables are not available, storage without loss and usage in an efficient way (burning it in an ICE is horrendously inefficient given the cost of energy to produce it).

No disagreement there; I was referencing his original comment that an atom of hydrogen works better than an atom of lithium. ;)

But given all the hand-wringing on this thread recently about all the additional electricity that will be needed to switch to EVs, it seems, as you say, even harder to justify adding power that will be wasted on a vastly more inefficient mode of transport. 
Bending to the (occasional) slight time disadvantage of an eTruck over a Hydrogen fuel cell truck means all that additional clean energy could go to something more worthwhile.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5802 on: October 04, 2018, 10:30:26 PM »
Bending to the (occasional) slight time disadvantage of an eTruck over a Hydrogen fuel cell truck means all that additional clean energy could go to something more worthwhile.

This is true.  Although playing devil's advocate to my own post on the ICE part, using a hydrogen turbine to run a generator and use a short range battery to soak up the "cruise" requirement of the turbine could lead to efficiencies of 70% when burning the hydrogen.  However we still can't get rid of the cost of cracking the hydrogen (unless a truly efficient catalyst can be found) and storage remains an issue even with Graphene seals.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5803 on: October 04, 2018, 10:33:59 PM »
"City of the Future" offers Europe's first self driving taxi service.

https://www.rt.com/business/437145-yandex-ride-hailing-service/

Terry

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5804 on: October 06, 2018, 04:25:49 PM »
Big Auto Still Spends Big Dollars Promoting Gas Cars, But Not ‘Tesla Killers’
Quote
Okay… guilty. I just used the clickbait term “Tesla Killers” — the media’s catchphrase to hype EVs destined to destroy Team Elon. But are Big Auto’s electric cars really a threat to Tesla? As the press gets swept up in electric concept cars, press releases, and buzzy announcements from legacy automakers, efforts surrounding their existing EVs are kept quiet. More on that in a minute. …
https://insideevs.com/big-auto-tesla-killer-ads/
Graph below compares Nissan advertising spending on ICE models vs. EV.  More at the link.
——
Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn Says USMCA Makes North American Market Alive Again
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhG6wBhTNZ4
At 4:00 - Tesla is making high end cars, is an EV ally for the mass market, not a competitor
At 6:00 - By end of 2022, [only!!!] 10% of Nissan-alliance cars will be pure electric: 1.4 million.
——
How Will Marchionne’s Tardiness Impact FCA’s Electric Future? – Part 2
Marchionne is last to join the EV bandwagon, but can Fiat still compete?
https://insideevs.com/marchionnes-tardiness-impact-fca-electric-future/
Article has details on what models will be electrified, and to what degree

——-
Archimid posted a brief article on Audi that mentioned 350 kW charging, back on Sept 27: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg174434.html#msg174434

I wanted to post Musk’s quoted response from the earnings call — see below.
No reason there can’t be different tech for different customer needs:  if you absolutely, positively, refuse to consider spending more than a few minutes in a public charging station, Porsche will have an option for you.  But… it will likely come with its own set of drawbacks.

Porsche Taycan charging times to be 2X faster than Tesla’s Superchargers
Quote
If Porsche successfully rolls out its Electric Pit Stops, it would create a network of rapid chargers that are twice as quick as Tesla’s Supercharger Network, which have an output of ~120 kW and are capable of recharging the company’s electric vehicles up to 80% in 30 minutes. That said, Tesla is also preparing the rollout of its Supercharger V3, which is expected to have an output of 200-250 kW. During Tesla’s Q1 earnings call, Elon Musk shared a critique of 350 kW systems, stating that such an output could compromise the battery.

“The thing about a 350 kW charger is that it doesn’t actually make a ton of sense, unless you got a monster battery pack or have like a crazy high C rating. We think 350 kW for a single car; you’re gonna frag the battery pack if you do that. You cannot charge a high-energy battery pack at that rate, unless it’s a very high kW battery pack. So, (for us), something along the couple of hundred, 200-250 kW,” Musk said.
https://www.teslarati.com/porsche-taycan-charging-time-2x-faster-tesla-superchargers/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5805 on: October 06, 2018, 04:35:10 PM »
Deep Dive: InsideEVs Electric Car Sales Estimates And Methodology
Ever wanted to know how we handle the plethora of EV sales? Why do other websites rely on our numbers?
https://insideevs.com/insideevs-handle-sales-estimates-methodology/amp/

How they make this chart:
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

rboyd

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 723
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5806 on: October 06, 2018, 10:17:42 PM »
Financial Times: Why the future of electric cars lies in China

"No doubt EVs will be manufactured in the US and a few European countries. Tesla deserves the chance to recover under new management. In Europe, the UK and Germany in particular have the potential to combine the strengths of academic research with those of the car industry. Overall, however, any significant shift to EVs will be led by China, with technology backed by the full power of government"

https://www.ft.com/content/1c31817e-b5a4-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1

Cleantechnica: China’s Electric Car Sales Up 64% In July

"The Chinese plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) market is in summer-chill mode, with some 75,000 units being registered in July, up only 64%. Yes, this is a slowdown from the three-digit growth rates of previous months. It is explained by the fact that “New Energy” subsidies were slashed to vehicles with full-charge driving range lower to 150 km in June, so most small city EVs stopped seeing sales, draining a significant percentage of over PEV sales.

Consequently, the plug-in cars stayed away from their record 5% market share of May, ending July with 3.9% share. The 2018 PEV market share rose slightly, to 3%, well above the 2.1% of 2017. With sales expected to pick up as the year advances, the 2018 PEV share should end north of the 3% or even 4% threshold, with December possibly reaching 7%.

Last month, the Chinese OEMs represented almost 50% of all PEVs registered globally, an impressive number that should increase during 2018."

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/26/chinas-electric-car-sales-up-64-in-july/

This is going to end up as a huge issue in the early 2020s given the government-supported growth rates in China. Trump is doing the US industry no favours by making it easier for them to continue with their ICEs. Could be like the Japanese car imports shock of the late 70's/early 80's - only this one is about owning the future of cars, as well as all the spinoff technologies. Musk is a sideshow compared to this.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 10:23:56 PM by rboyd »

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 95
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5807 on: October 06, 2018, 10:47:33 PM »
he has been breaking tesla news for the last 2 months and has been correct about everything. if he is correct about this, tesla will be filing chapter 11 this month...

https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1048654176287432706

this is relevant...

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debtorinpossessionfinancing.asp
big time oops

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5808 on: October 07, 2018, 12:39:09 AM »
Financial Times: Why the future of electric cars lies in China

"No doubt EVs will be manufactured in the US and a few European countries. Tesla deserves the chance to recover under new management. In Europe, the UK and Germany in particular have the potential to combine the strengths of academic research with those of the car industry. Overall, however, any significant shift to EVs will be led by China, with technology backed by the full power of government"

https://www.ft.com/content/1c31817e-b5a4-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1

Cleantechnica: China’s Electric Car Sales Up 64% In July

"The Chinese plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) market is in summer-chill mode, with some 75,000 units being registered in July, up only 64%. Yes, this is a slowdown from the three-digit growth rates of previous months. It is explained by the fact that “New Energy” subsidies were slashed to vehicles with full-charge driving range lower to 150 km in June, so most small city EVs stopped seeing sales, draining a significant percentage of over PEV sales.

Consequently, the plug-in cars stayed away from their record 5% market share of May, ending July with 3.9% share. The 2018 PEV market share rose slightly, to 3%, well above the 2.1% of 2017. With sales expected to pick up as the year advances, the 2018 PEV share should end north of the 3% or even 4% threshold, with December possibly reaching 7%.

Last month, the Chinese OEMs represented almost 50% of all PEVs registered globally, an impressive number that should increase during 2018."

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/26/chinas-electric-car-sales-up-64-in-july/

This is going to end up as a huge issue in the early 2020s given the government-supported growth rates in China. Trump is doing the US industry no favours by making it easier for them to continue with their ICEs. Could be like the Japanese car imports shock of the late 70's/early 80's - only this one is about owning the future of cars, as well as all the spinoff technologies. Musk is a sideshow compared to this.


Apparently the Chinese/Japanese CHAdeMO chargers are set to standardize at least the Asian and European markets. Tesla will switch or be left with unique charging systems that only work for their brand.
Can you imagine if you could only fill up your BMW at a BMW gas station?
Terry

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5809 on: October 07, 2018, 01:12:20 AM »
”Apparently the Chinese/Japanese CHAdeMO chargers are set to standardize at least the Asian and European markets. Tesla will switch or be left with unique charging systems that only work for their brand.
Can you imagine if you could only fill up your BMW at a BMW gas station?”


While charging standards are being decided, there’s no reason a station can’t have multiple plugs available to use.  Several charging companies are already doing this.  Like having multiple grades of gasoline plus diesel to choose from at each pump.

https://insideevs.com/evgo-upgrades-fast-charging-stations-to-handle-both-chademo-ccs-combo/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5810 on: October 07, 2018, 06:57:49 PM »
The technical design director for Jaguar Land Rover wants you to be happy with 90- or 100-kWh batteries in your EV.

Jaguar Says That EV Battery Size Has Peaked And Will Begin to Shrink
https://insideevs.com/jaguar-ev-battery-size-peaked/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5811 on: October 07, 2018, 07:44:03 PM »
The technical design director for Jaguar Land Rover wants you to be happy with 90- or 100-kWh batteries in your EV.

Jaguar Says That EV Battery Size Has Peaked And Will Begin to Shrink
https://insideevs.com/jaguar-ev-battery-size-peaked/


I still have questions about the concept of burning electricity for individual's transportation, but I had though that you were in favor of the concept.


Have you evolved to now being pro Tesla, but against the other players in the field, or is this a pro Jaguar - pro small battery post?
Terry

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5812 on: October 07, 2018, 07:52:55 PM »
The technical design director for Jaguar Land Rover wants you to be happy with 90- or 100-kWh batteries in your EV.

Jaguar Says That EV Battery Size Has Peaked And Will Begin to Shrink
https://insideevs.com/jaguar-ev-battery-size-peaked/

In the IT world, we "peaked" on PC processor speeds several times in the 90's, again in the 2000's and we're off on a rollercoaster of explosive performance gains again in the 2010's.

I recall when my boss, at the beginning of the 90's, told me that Nirvana in portable computing would be a laptop that didn't have to be plugged in ever 30 minutes but would work all day (8 hours), on a single charge and could be charged at the end of the day.  We're already past that for some devices and now we are working on 20 hours and more.

We won't be able to say that battery capacity has peaked until a car can drive at least 1,000 miles on a charge and can be re-charged in 15 minutes.

This is typical of new entrants into a market trying to define the market around their capabilities and to convince investors and customers that what they are producing is exactly what you need.

Disruptive tech is ALL about destroying these kinds of moves.  Believe me, it will be destroyed.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5813 on: October 07, 2018, 08:23:43 PM »
Financial Times: Why the future of electric cars lies in China

If you read very carefully, China is doing this because of pollution and Oil imports which are causing severe problems for China.

So, yes, they will push their population to EV's.

However if you read carefully, many of the products would struggle to sell in the western world anyway.  less than 90 mile battery life being a large chunk of the market.

Then, if you look, China has only 10% of its population as car owners and most of those own ICE's.  They may have a 1.2bn population but only about 350m have the capacity to buy EV's of any kind and, today, ownership is around 120m.

The US and EU, together, total nearly 900 million people and car ownership in those countries is closer to 50% than 10%.  In fact the US is much higher, total vehicles are over 90% although the personal transport will be lower.

Tesla is moving to China due to this growth market.  Why wouldn't they?  It is a huge market.  But the rest of the world is, by comparison, significantly larger at this time.

Whilst the premise of the article is correct, in theory, the numbers don't, yet, add up.  China is known for rapidly ramping up businesses based on government subsidies.  The number of bankruptcies which follow are, correspondingly, high.

The only reason this would come true is that the Western manufacturers let them by not really trying to compete.

Tesla, on the other hand, is competing robustly.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5814 on: October 07, 2018, 08:40:35 PM »
he has been breaking tesla news for the last 2 months and has been correct about everything. if he is correct about this, tesla will be filing chapter 11 this month...

https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1048654176287432706

this is relevant...

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debtorinpossessionfinancing.asp

There is a three week window for these kind of articles.  Once the Q3 results are out, there will be a simple decision.  Tesla has enough money to continue operating or it does not.

Right now, the only thing which might push Tesla over the top are the shorts who might actually cause Tesla to miss the convertible debt and have to pay it off instead of converting it.

There are questions as to whether this kind of activity is illegal.  Given Tesla performance, constantly moving towards profitability, the shorts are, literally, distorting the market to damage institutional investors and break a company so they can make a fast buck.

It is legal.  But, if this carries on, not for much longer.

I, for one, am happy to simply sit and wait to see how it comes out.  We have seen that Tesla hit the committed target for Model 3 production (>50k in Q3).  Granted it did not hit Musk's aspirations but, then, the company did not commit to his aspiration, it committed to 50k - 55k manufactured in Q3.

I note that the Bloomberg tracker had to be manually updated to incorporate the actual Tesla reported results both for weekly production and for the total of Model 3's manufactured.  Bloomberg was reporting just over 2,000 a week produced when Tesla was averaging over 4,000.

Another interesting little snippet is that the total cars manufactured in 2018, from the Q3 report, stood at 94,269, yet Bloomberg has tracked 122,517 VIN's registered for vehicles by Tesla.  Which means that there are 28 thousand odd cars still in the pipeline right now.  I don't know how often Tesla registers VIN's but at the current production rate that is 6 weeks production.  Or put another way, half of Q4.  If, on the other hand, Tesla does actually move to higher production as intended, then this is only 4 weeks of cars.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5815 on: October 07, 2018, 09:52:55 PM »
The technical design director for Jaguar Land Rover wants you to be happy with 90- or 100-kWh batteries in your EV.

Jaguar Says That EV Battery Size Has Peaked And Will Begin to Shrink
https://insideevs.com/jaguar-ev-battery-size-peaked/

I still have questions about the concept of burning electricity for individual's transportation, but I had though that you were in favor of the concept.


Have you evolved to now being pro Tesla, but against the other players in the field, or is this a pro Jaguar - pro small battery post?
Terry

My first reaction to the 100kWh limit was:  “That’s what Musk said about Model S/X batteries a couple years ago.”  :)

My second thought was: “I wonder what Forum readers will think of such a limit being suggested by Jaguar rather than Tesla?”

My third thought was:  “I wonder if Jaguar is trying to forestall complaints or expectations about the I-PACE?”  ;)

I think batteries around 100kWh should be quite enough for the vast majority of EVs of any brand — although they will each use it differently according to their hardware, software, and intended market.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5816 on: October 07, 2018, 10:02:27 PM »
Happening now:
Re-organization. Layoffs.  Thousands of job cuts.
“seeking to cut more than $25 billion in costs”
“net income declined by nearly half to $1.1 billion in the second quarter”
stock price at its lowest point since 2009, when the U.S. economy was in a deep recession.
“credit rating is now one step above junk”
$11billion charges

All this is happening right now — to FORD.  Not Tesla!

Pink slips are coming to Ford. The carmaker has told its 70,000 salaried employees that they'll face unspecified job cuts as part of its $11 billion restructuring.
https://twitter.com/business/status/1048582268929937408

Ford, an Automaker at a Crossroads, Seeks Cuts and Partners
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/05/business/ford-motor-cars.html#click=https://t.co/Fzwx7nnzn9


Also, VW announces:   mass production delays!

Volkswagen says it’s first new-generation battery-electric vehicle based on the upcoming MEB platform, the I.D. hatchback, won’t reach the market until 2020, rather than next year as originally planned.
https://insideevs.com/volkswagen-electric-car-delay-id-hatch/

The major car companies are not exactly operating on all cylinders....
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1850
    • View Profile
    • Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multiple Sklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgia Modular Mobile Computing iOS Software OSX Android Custom Rom Rooted
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 104
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5817 on: October 07, 2018, 10:24:18 PM »
this page is a good read, thanks @all for all the useful contributions
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5818 on: October 07, 2018, 10:36:12 PM »

Sig

There was a new Leaf at the dealer here a year or so back with a small battery, but with the subsidies it was also inexpensive. If I was living in a house I would have considered it as a second car.


Those of us living in condos or apartments will probably be keeping our gas guzzlers for some time. I purchased what is probably my last car a few months ago. I tend to keep them for decades, and in two decades I'll be 92 and will hopefully getting about in a scooter. :-\


Building up, not out has been the mantra here for some decades, and EV's lose much of their allure when they can't be topped up in your own garage. Many of the younger people here missed the boat when housing prices took off. Few will ever own a home of their own.


No house, no double garage, they may drive ice or hybrids for the rest of their lives, - and they're young.
Terry


oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3131
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 347
  • Likes Given: 726
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5819 on: October 08, 2018, 12:11:18 AM »
Don't many condos have underground parking garages? It's relatively easy to wire these for EV charging.
Moreover, cities could install low-speed charging ports for on-street parking (many cities are doing it now with a few spots here and there). This is a big infrastructure thing, but in decades could be done. And of course one could charge at a charge station, the same as one charges an ICE car today. I doubt those young people will be stuck with their ICE cars forever.

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5820 on: October 08, 2018, 01:00:14 AM »
Don't many condos have underground parking garages? It's relatively easy to wire these for EV charging.
Moreover, cities could install low-speed charging ports for on-street parking (many cities are doing it now with a few spots here and there). This is a big infrastructure thing, but in decades could be done. And of course one could charge at a charge station, the same as one charges an ICE car today. I doubt those young people will be stuck with their ICE cars forever.
Yes, We've underground heated parking, but no room for, or wiring for multiple charging stations. They're rebuilding two floors of parking at the moment & I'd asked if they were going to wire it for chargers, bit the owners were adamant that it wasn't feasible.
The "Upward not Outward" thing was a green initiative, but detached housing is now very pricey. I retained one house in California, but those who got out of the market, or who never got in will be hard pressed to accumulate the funds now required.
Terry

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5821 on: October 08, 2018, 01:53:30 AM »

Sig

There was a new Leaf at the dealer here a year or so back with a small battery, but with the subsidies it was also inexpensive. If I was living in a house I would have considered it as a second car.


Those of us living in condos or apartments will probably be keeping our gas guzzlers for some time. I purchased what is probably my last car a few months ago. I tend to keep them for decades, and in two decades I'll be 92 and will hopefully getting about in a scooter. :-\


Building up, not out has been the mantra here for some decades, and EV's lose much of their allure when they can't be topped up in your own garage. Many of the younger people here missed the boat when housing prices took off. Few will ever own a home of their own.


No house, no double garage, they may drive ice or hybrids for the rest of their lives, - and they're young.
Terry

But charging companies are building out fast-chargers in urban settings for situations exactly like this.  Remember, ICE cars can’t “fuel up” at home, either. ;)  So stop at your favorite station and get breakfast while you charge, then be on your way.  Smaller batteries don’t take long to charge, and besides, as you noted, you may not need a full charge if you are just commuting locally.  Fast-charging EVs will soon be the norm.

Even if you usually keep your car for 10 to 15 years, the lower cost of ownership for EVs (due to lower maintenance and lower “fuel” costs, etc.), not to mention safer tech and continual software updates — and peer pressure! — will make them an attractive alternative to old ICE-mobiles   And more used, and lower-cost, EVs are coming soon.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 95
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5822 on: October 08, 2018, 06:04:04 PM »
he has been breaking tesla news for the last 2 months and has been correct about everything. if he is correct about this, tesla will be filing chapter 11 this month...

https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1048654176287432706

this is relevant...

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debtorinpossessionfinancing.asp

There is a three week window for these kind of articles.  Once the Q3 results are out, there will be a simple decision.  Tesla has enough money to continue operating or it does not.

Right now, the only thing which might push Tesla over the top are the shorts who might actually cause Tesla to miss the convertible debt and have to pay it off instead of converting it.

There are questions as to whether this kind of activity is illegal.  Given Tesla performance, constantly moving towards profitability, the shorts are, literally, distorting the market to damage institutional investors and break a company so they can make a fast buck.

It is legal.  But, if this carries on, not for much longer.

I, for one, am happy to simply sit and wait to see how it comes out.  We have seen that Tesla hit the committed target for Model 3 production (>50k in Q3).  Granted it did not hit Musk's aspirations but, then, the company did not commit to his aspiration, it committed to 50k - 55k manufactured in Q3.

I note that the Bloomberg tracker had to be manually updated to incorporate the actual Tesla reported results both for weekly production and for the total of Model 3's manufactured.  Bloomberg was reporting just over 2,000 a week produced when Tesla was averaging over 4,000.

Another interesting little snippet is that the total cars manufactured in 2018, from the Q3 report, stood at 94,269, yet Bloomberg has tracked 122,517 VIN's registered for vehicles by Tesla.  Which means that there are 28 thousand odd cars still in the pipeline right now.  I don't know how often Tesla registers VIN's but at the current production rate that is 6 weeks production.  Or put another way, half of Q4.  If, on the other hand, Tesla does actually move to higher production as intended, then this is only 4 weeks of cars.

"There is a three week window for these kind of articles."

What do you mean?

"Once the Q3 results are out, there will be a simple decision."

This does not make sense. The company knows a decent approximation of the quarters finances....they don't need to wait until they report. The timeline has to do with bond repayments. Big bill due in November. There is no way they pay that off in full and then restructure. That would be effectively just giving away about $100 million.

"Given Tesla performance, constantly moving towards profitability, the shorts are, literally, distorting the market to damage institutional investors and break a company so they can make a fast buck. It is legal.  But, if this carries on, not for much longer."

Total nonsense. Last quarter was Tesla's FURTHEST FROM PROFITABLE quarter yet. The shorts have be pushing tons and tons of negative news. What makes it legal is that it is all true. There is nothing illegal about espousing true information. The untrue information is what comes out of Tesla and its fanbois websites, most notably claiming they are on the brink of profitability for the LAST 7 YEARS!!!

Tesla production has dropped well below 4k a week. The factory parking lot has been quite empty for the past 2 weeks. They probably don't have the capital to produce cars for which there is no immediate demand...Imagine that.
big time oops

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5823 on: October 08, 2018, 07:07:07 PM »
I always get a kick when people like Oren and Sig talk about young people as if they have any clue. Do you honestly think that young people in NA are capable of owning a 50k car, and live in a place where a landlord is willing to pay thousands of dollars on a charging port? Young people can barely afford an ICE as it is.

It's incredible how out-of-touch you are

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5824 on: October 08, 2018, 07:14:19 PM »
"Just buy an electric car. Get a charging port. Don't criticize Musk.  Why don't you young people listen to us? It's so easy. Look, I did it. I even own Tesla Stock. You should own Tesla Stock. Put your money where you mouth is. Why don't you like Musk? Your generation is what is wrong with the world"

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5825 on: October 08, 2018, 07:53:17 PM »
TSLA is tanking. No surprise here. You know what else won't be a surprise? The blame game when Tesla tanks:
"Musk's critics got in the way of progress. The shorts, the FUD, the lies. We would have had a shot at fighting climate change. But you got in the way. It was your fault"

Maybe it was a bad idea to have the "hero" of climate change an egotistical techno-fetishist sexist anti-labor anti-public-transport rich white asshole from South Africa.  Maybe  you should have listened to the people saying it's a bad idea to divert more government funds from public transport to personal transport. Maybe you shouldn't trust the guy who lives in a mansion and flies a private jet when he talks about reducing our footprint.  Maybe we shouldn't have spent so much fucking time obsessing about owning more toys.

God damn this whole saga was pathetic. And it will continue to be pathetic when the tears flow.

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3131
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 347
  • Likes Given: 726
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5826 on: October 08, 2018, 09:57:05 PM »
Zizek I am sure many here will be happy to read more of your consecutive posts, but please post them in the proper thread - "Tesla glory/failure".

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1850
    • View Profile
    • Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multiple Sklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgia Modular Mobile Computing iOS Software OSX Android Custom Rom Rooted
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 104
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5827 on: October 08, 2018, 11:46:53 PM »

Even if you usually keep your car for 10 to 15 years, the lower cost of ownership for EVs (due to lower maintenance and lower “fuel” costs, etc.), not to mention safer tech and continual software updates — and peer pressure! — will make them an attractive alternative to old ICE-mobiles   And more used, and lower-cost, EVs are coming soon.

in europe you can count on it the that the government will not see their huge income on fuel go without replacement. the moment enough EV's are rolling on EU roads the gasoline/diesel tax will be applied to electricity from car chargers or for car charging.

some will argue that it's not possible to distinguish but it will be prohibited to not declare and it will be like with the diesel that is identical to heating oil and can be used as car fuel and it is done but illegal, hence 99.9% of the people pay the tax on diesel that makes diesel many times more expensive than heating oil even though over many decades it was identical, only the color was different for customs and police officers to find heating oil in trucks and cars.

nowadays modern diesel gets some additives but still they run on heating oil.

my point is that the lower costs for fuel will not last, while other lower costs like that for maintenance will remain.
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5828 on: October 08, 2018, 11:57:10 PM »
”my point is that the lower costs for fuel will not last, while other lower costs like that for maintenance will remain.”

Well, you can still make your own EV “fuel,” using solar panels!  ;)
Try doing that with your ICE car! ;D
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5829 on: October 09, 2018, 12:15:02 AM »
Zizek I am sure many here will be happy to read more of your consecutive posts, but please post them in the proper thread - "Tesla glory/failure".

It's not like Sig spams this thread with Tesla & silicon valley garbage. And it's okay for her to post shit from Fred Lambert's blog, a man who gets paid by Tesla to write glowing pieces for the company.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5830 on: October 09, 2018, 12:16:33 AM »
ICE car manufacturers have fallen on hard times.

Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) is planning a two week shutdown of its Solihull plant at the end of October as demand falls
Quote
Britain's biggest carmaker blamed weakening global demand, especially in China, and has faced falling diesel sales in recent months.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-45785229


BMW exec expresses reservations on electric car battery costs: ‘It’s a nightmare’
Quote
Back in March 2018, Merkel’s government took particular notice on German automakers such as Daimler, BMW, and Volkswagen and their dependence on Asian companies for the battery needs of their electric cars. Addressing the carmakers last June, Merkel urged the legacy automakers to start catching up.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-rival-bmw-senior-exec-electric-car-battery-costs-nightmare/


Toyota made a bad bet to go with hydrogen fuel cells cars instead of pure electrics.  Now the best they can do is try to make people forget that their Lexus cars will continually need to be re-filled with gasoline.
Lexus trash talks all-electric vehicles in shameful hybrid vehicle advertising
Quote
They are advertising their Lexus hybrids (HEVs without plugs) as “self-charging”, having “infinite range”, and trash talks all-electric vehicles in the process.
https://electrek.co/2018/10/08/lexus-trash-talk-all-electric-vehicles-shameful-hybrid-vehicle-advertising/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5831 on: October 09, 2018, 12:18:58 AM »
”my point is that the lower costs for fuel will not last, while other lower costs like that for maintenance will remain.”

Well, you can still make your own EV “fuel,” using solar panels!  ;)
Try doing that with your ICE car! ;D

Not everywhere.  Whilst this tax on solar PV is being scrapped, you can bet that Spain are not the last to implement these taxes.

As Solar becomes more pervasive, I expect Governments to tax renewables at an ever increasing rate.

That is what governments do.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5832 on: October 09, 2018, 12:34:03 AM »
I think it's really telling that most of the discussion in the Policy and Solutions subforum revolves around technological fixes geared toward wealthy people.  A bunch of interstitial half-assed solutions to maintain the status quo. A bunch of old people obsessing about toys and batteries.

The other forums I go on which are predominantly a younger crowd, and the discussion is steared towards how we can transform our society to address climate change.  That sort of discussion rarely happens here, and is rarely productive and often hostile.

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5833 on: October 09, 2018, 01:02:59 AM »
Many decades ago many of the Southern States began charging trucks passing through by the miles driven on their roads. I've no doubt that something similar will be enacted in every jurisdiction and applied to EV's to make up for lost fuel taxes. Those charging at home, or from solar will still be required to pay their share.
Terry

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 95
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5834 on: October 09, 2018, 01:04:08 AM »
Zizek I am sure many here will be happy to read more of your consecutive posts, but please post them in the proper thread - "Tesla glory/failure".

It's not like Sig spams this thread with Tesla & silicon valley garbage. And it's okay for her to post shit from Fred Lambert's blog, a man who gets paid by Tesla to write glowing pieces for the company.

Zizek forgot to mention the other three blogs which are effectively the same thing as Fred's Electrek.

Couldn't possibly agree more with the sentiment expressed here. The only Tesla related info that seems to get told to take a hike by the more senior members of this forum are Tesla-negative. There is daily Tesla nonsense posted here by the bulls ( who still haven't explained how that legit 420 funding hasn't managed to take a controlling interest in the company as the price has declined to $250...should only take 60% as much money as was purported 2 months ago ;D ).
big time oops

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1850
    • View Profile
    • Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multiple Sklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgia Modular Mobile Computing iOS Software OSX Android Custom Rom Rooted
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 104
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5835 on: October 09, 2018, 01:10:57 AM »
”my point is that the lower costs for fuel will not last, while other lower costs like that for maintenance will remain.”

Well, you can still make your own EV “fuel,” using solar panels!  ;)
Try doing that with your ICE car! ;D

this won't work, the law will tax any thing you charge your car battery and if you make your own electricity you have do declare it.

in switzerland you're not even getting a building permission without using public power, public water and public everything. no autonomy is allowed.

since each country has it's own law and taxation system it's  TLTW/R all the possibilities but i can give you a guarantee that this won't be possible for much longer than a transition period until the taxman has computed his losses ;)

point is that cheap EV-"Fuel's" days are counted while in the americas gasoline tax has been way lower than in europe since i can think and perhaps you're lucky and electric car-fuel will not be taxed like over here.

BTW low tax on fuel has not proven to be a good thing. not by accident come all the SUV and big is beautiful trends from the americas, expensive fuel has always seen to smaller an lighter cards.

here in europe, before eu-times, prices for gas in italy were ridiculously high compapared to i.e. switzerland and guess what, they drove fiat 500 and vespas in masses etc. etc. etc.
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5836 on: October 09, 2018, 01:19:53 AM »
The other forums I go on which are predominantly a younger crowd, and the discussion is steared towards how we can transform our society to address climate change.  That sort of discussion rarely happens here, and is rarely productive and often hostile.

That's because they are not old enough, with enough experience, to know the limits of our society today.  The young always think you can just "fix it".

I have already posted the model Tesla is using.  They are using the money from those who can afford it to reverse take over the mass EV car market.  Clearly you can't see that.  It is clear to me.  You do not just wake up in the morning and start taking on Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VAG.  Those who have done so wind up lining the halls of fame for failed businesses.

If all those young people who are "talking" about changing society actually got out there and "changed" society, then things would be moving in a better direction.  Sadly they are so far inside their tablets and mobile phones they can't see the environment for the endless games they play on their power sucking technology.

Older people have responsibilities, families, homes, mortgages, work to go to.  The fact that those older people are taking the time to even talk about what they are talking about tells you just how seriously they are taking this.

But, at the same time, those older people have generated a lifetimes worth of contacts, skills and influence.  The most successful young people don't go around dissing the boring old farts, they learn from them and go on to be successful and change society.

The last snotty young "socialist" who gave me a hard time over the phone annoyed me so much that I pulled all my contact strings and used all my knowledge skills and influence to get BT broadband into my local exchange 14 months ahead of the scheduled implementation.  Because BT woke up to the threat, the company the snotty young "socialist" worked for wound up losing so much business in the town that they went from being primed to push BT out entirely, to being an also ran bit player who capped all investment and moved staff away from the local area.  Losing snotty young "socialist" their job.

Beware the rich old fart you are laughing at.  They may be smiling back....
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5837 on: October 09, 2018, 01:47:40 AM »
“Fred Lambert's blog, a man who gets paid by Tesla to write glowing pieces for the company.”

Let’s see you prove this.  Which you cannot, because it is totally false.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5838 on: October 09, 2018, 02:09:29 AM »
The other forums I go on which are predominantly a younger crowd, and the discussion is steared towards how we can transform our society to address climate change.  That sort of discussion rarely happens here, and is rarely productive and often hostile.

That's because they are not old enough, with enough experience, to know the limits of our society today.  The young always think you can just "fix it".

I have already posted the model Tesla is using.  They are using the money from those who can afford it to reverse take over the mass EV car market.  Clearly you can't see that.  It is clear to me.  You do not just wake up in the morning and start taking on Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VAG.  Those who have done so wind up lining the halls of fame for failed businesses.

If all those young people who are "talking" about changing society actually got out there and "changed" society, then things would be moving in a better direction.  Sadly they are so far inside their tablets and mobile phones they can't see the environment for the endless games they play on their power sucking technology.

Older people have responsibilities, families, homes, mortgages, work to go to.  The fact that those older people are taking the time to even talk about what they are talking about tells you just how seriously they are taking this.

But, at the same time, those older people have generated a lifetimes worth of contacts, skills and influence.  The most successful young people don't go around dissing the boring old farts, they learn from them and go on to be successful and change society.

The last snotty young "socialist" who gave me a hard time over the phone annoyed me so much that I pulled all my contact strings and used all my knowledge skills and influence to get BT broadband into my local exchange 14 months ahead of the scheduled implementation.  Because BT woke up to the threat, the company the snotty young "socialist" worked for wound up losing so much business in the town that they went from being primed to push BT out entirely, to being an also ran bit player who capped all investment and moved staff away from the local area.  Losing snotty young "socialist" their job.

Beware the rich old fart you are laughing at.  They may be smiling back....
hahaha. This post is truly perfect.

My animosity for dumbasses like yourself doesn't come from this forum. It's from the work I do on the ground. It's young people who are taking initiative to enact change. And it's the old guard, even "self-proclaimed" environmentalists, who are giving us pushback. But yeah, please, tell me about your sweet rolodex and contacts. I'd love to expand my network of people telling me we just need more plug-in parking spots and permaculture.

What the fuck am I supposed to learn from your generation? Your the ones who got us into this mess. Now all of sudden you're too busy and got other priorities eh? And the only thing you have to offer us is..... Wisdom. Thanks. Hopefully I won't be too busy staring at my phone to listen.

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5839 on: October 09, 2018, 02:16:24 AM »
“Fred Lambert's blog, a man who gets paid by Tesla to write glowing pieces for the company.”

Let’s see you prove this.  Which you cannot, because it is totally false.
It's no secret Fred pushes referrals in his articles and owns Tesla stock.
I'm sure you have some explanation defending him.  But, I would like to you to use an analogy. Would it be okay if a journalist/blogger received a gas voucher for the articles they wrote about Chevron?  I dunno, seems like a conflict of interest.

TerryM

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 4268
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5840 on: October 09, 2018, 02:22:44 AM »
“Fred Lambert's blog, a man who gets paid by Tesla to write glowing pieces for the company.”

Let’s see you prove this.  Which you cannot, because it is totally false.
It's no secret Fred pushes referrals in his articles and owns Tesla stock.
I'm sure you have some explanation defending him.  But, I would like to you to use an analogy. Would it be okay if a journalist/blogger received a gas voucher for the articles they wrote about Chevron?  I dunno, seems like a conflict of interest.


We used to refer to them as "bird dogs", always had a business card handy for a realtor, a restaurant, or a car salesman. "Mention my name & xxx will set you up with a great deal". Tesla's just a little more up front about his kickbacks.
Terry

Archimid

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1594
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 74
  • Likes Given: 101
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5841 on: October 09, 2018, 02:48:15 AM »
Daimler Starts Construction Of New Battery Factory In Alabama


https://insideevs.com/daimler-construction-battery-factory-alabama/

Quote
“One year ago, we have announced $1 billion investment in Tuscaloosa mostly for the production of electric SUVs and a battery plant. We are bringing electric mobility for Mercedes-Benz to the United States.”

“The investment of billions of US-Dollars in the U.S. car production of Mercedes-Benz is paying off: The first all new Mercedes-Benz GLE left the production lines bringing a new driver experience to our customers worldwide. At the same time, the electric initiative of Mercedes-Benz Cars in the U.S. is well on track. A groundbreaking ceremony marks the start of the construction of a new battery factory. The factory next to the vehicle plant in Tuscaloosa providing batteries for future electric SUV under the EQ brand.”
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5842 on: October 09, 2018, 02:57:59 AM »
“Fred Lambert's blog, a man who gets paid by Tesla to write glowing pieces for the company.”

Let’s see you prove this.  Which you cannot, because it is totally false.
It's no secret Fred pushes referrals in his articles and owns Tesla stock.
I'm sure you have some explanation defending him. 

But, I would like to you to use an analogy. Would it be okay if a journalist/blogger received a gas voucher for the articles they wrote about Chevron?  I dunno, seems like a conflict of interest.

So you admit that what you wrote about Fred is false.

What I care about is that Fred writes articlesnot a “blog,” as you wrote, again, falsely — with accurate information.  As a reputable journalist, he contacts Tesla to seek clarification, comment, or additional information, as opposed to the anti-Tesla habit of spinning negative FUD, with no concern as to whether something is true.

Successful Tesla YouTubers and podcasters have garnered tons of referrals. None of them had to lie to earn them!

If positive news about Tesla makes you angry, that’s too bad.  Tesla is succeeding where no other company has — so you are going to be seeing a lot more positive news.  “Shooting the messenger” is a poor tactic to take.


P.S.:  As has been mentioned, “Tesla arguments” have been moved to the Tesla Glory/Failure thread.  (Although it is requested that positions are stated there via posting articles, not vituperative comments. ;) )
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 03:05:22 AM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

zizek

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5843 on: October 09, 2018, 03:10:58 AM »
Okay. you're right. I'll just add to my notes that it's a totally acceptable and normal practice for reputable journalists to sell and receive payment for the companies they are covering.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5844 on: October 09, 2018, 03:22:49 AM »
Daimler Starts Construction Of New Battery Factory In Alabama


https://insideevs.com/daimler-construction-battery-factory-alabama/

Quote
“One year ago, we have announced $1 billion investment in Tuscaloosa mostly for the production of electric SUVs and a battery plant. We are bringing electric mobility for Mercedes-Benz to the United States.”

“The investment of billions of US-Dollars in the U.S. car production of Mercedes-Benz is paying off: The first all new Mercedes-Benz GLE left the production lines bringing a new driver experience to our customers worldwide. At the same time, the electric initiative of Mercedes-Benz Cars in the U.S. is well on track. A groundbreaking ceremony marks the start of the construction of a new battery factory. The factory next to the vehicle plant in Tuscaloosa providing batteries for future electric SUV under the EQ brand.”

From the video: “We are looking forward to producing batteries and fully electric SUVs in the near future.

The world needs 100 gigafactories to supply its clean energy needs.  Let’s go, Daimler!
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5845 on: October 09, 2018, 04:11:17 AM »
VW creates a 'task force' with battery supplier LG Chem to assure supply for EV ramp up
Quote
[VW] is reportedly meeting biweekly with the South Korean battery manufacturer to make sure they stay on track.
By 2025, they hope the production plan will lead to 3 million electric vehicles per year between all their brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, etc.).
https://electrek.co/2018/10/08/vw-task-force-battery-supplier-lg-supply-ev-ramp-up/

“It sounds like they are working with LG Chem to assure that their own suppliers are also ready for the upcoming important production ramp.  That’s not unlike what Tesla is doing with Panasonic.  But like most things electric with VW, it’s always a few years away.“
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5846 on: October 09, 2018, 05:25:06 PM »
The world needs 100 gigafactories to supply its clean energy needs.  Let’s go, Daimler!

Several thousand I should think.  The Gigafactory produces 0.150Tw/h in capacity every year.  World generating capacity is circa 26,000 Tw/h.  Even buffering 1% of that power would take the full annual output of 1,700 Gigafactories and none would have their full capacity only for buffering the grid.

Unless you are suggesting that these batteries will only be sold in the US?  The we would only need the full annual output of 33 Gigafactories to buffer 1% of the ~5Tw/h the US produces in a year.

Of course if we are only talking cars, sold in the US, we'd need 90, at the current capacity, to service the 17 million light vehicles sold per year.  Semi's, on the other hand, are a completely different calculation altogether.

For the world that is more like 350 to 400 just for light vehicles.

Then again the Gigafactory is also supposed to support powerwall and other buffering technologies.  So we're back to thousands again.

Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5847 on: October 09, 2018, 06:00:36 PM »
Musk has repeatedly said 100 gigafactories will suffice.  And he is quite knowledgable about global energy needs.  That’s why he invested in the first one — because he needed more batteries than the entire world was currently producing.

Edit:

Quote
"We actually did the calculations to figure out what it would take to transition the whole world to sustainable energy... and you'd need 100 gigafactories."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2016/10/30/how-tesla-and-elon-musk-could-save-the-world-with-gigafactories/
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 06:17:43 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 13382
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 169
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5848 on: October 09, 2018, 06:51:18 PM »
You say you want 475 kW?  No problem!  Right next to the tire fill-up kiosk.  :o

Tritium Brings DC Fast Chargers To Gas Stations In Partnership With Gilbarco Veeder-Root
October 9th, 2018
Quote
DC fast charging hardware manufacturer Tritium is targeting fuel service stations for its Veefil-PK High Power Charging Systems that can crank out power at up to an industry-leading 475 kW.

The new focus comes with news of a minority investment from Gilbarco Veeder-Root, a Fortive Corporation that has established itself as a key supplier of fuel dispensers and convenience store supplies. Essentially, it has made its money outfitting petrol stations with all the gear they need and is now looking to the plug-in future for the next big thing.

“Gilbarco Veeder-Root’s interest in Tritium further validates Tritium’s capabilities and technology expertise in the EV space,” said David Finn, Chief Executive Officer and founder, Tritium. “This investment also sends a strong message to the industry about the future of EV charging in the retail fueling and convenience market– it’s real, it’s happening and Tritium is at the forefront globally.”

As part of the investment, Gilbarco Veeder-Root will add Tritium’s products and solutions to its offerings and start actively selling the EV charging stations to its customers. As a company that has sold fueling systems up until now, the transition speaks of a new voice preaching the EV future to gas stations. The shift is one of the most logical moves we’ve seen as Tritium’s chargers, which can run at rates of up to 475 kW with its new Veefil-PK high power charging system, provide station owners with charging rates that rival petrol filling times. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/09/tritium-brings-dc-fast-chargers-to-gas-stations-in-partnership-with-gilbarco-veeder-root/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

NeilT

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 753
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5849 on: October 09, 2018, 07:02:52 PM »
Quote
"We actually did the calculations to figure out what it would take to transition the whole world to sustainable energy... and you'd need 100 gigafactories."

Yup, did he happen to mention how many centuries they would have to operate before we got there??

World power production is over 25,000 Tw/h per year.  Tesla Gigafactory production, per year, is 150GW/h.

The ~66m cars, alone, produced every year, would consume the full output of 90 Gigafactories.

Time to get Elon to quantify what he actually meant by 100 Gigafactories.  All the cars or all the power?  BTW I didn't even get into Semi's.  That just makes the figure MUCH worse.

Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein