Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....

[NeilT]

My biggest problem so far, just like my mom's Honda Civic back in the 90s, is condensation on the windows.

It's a compromise Neven.  Either vents open and the heater has to heat all that cold air coming in; or vents closed and the Aircon having to dehumidify the vehicle.

The main problem, of course, is that in a standard car with ~800km to 1,000km of range you can just burn a bit more fuel.

As we identified quite a while ago on this thread, you either fast charge or you have to compromise on your journey.

I would imagine that something like -5C and snow would be a real killer for the range.  Heating and wipers, nightmare.

[Sigmetnow]

GM to cut car production in North America, halt some models: source

DETROIT/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - General Motors Co will significantly cut car production in North America and stop building some low-selling car models, and was expected to announce significant planned reductions to its North American salaried, executive workforce, sources said on Monday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-restructuring/gm-to-cut-car-production-in-north-america-halt-some-models-source-idUSKCN1NV1NB

“GM was reviewing whether to cancel at least six passenger cars in the U.S. market after 2020, including the Chevrolet Volt hybrid, Buick LaCrosse, Cadillac CT6, Cadillac XTS, Chevrolet Impala and Chevrolet Sonic.”

Notes:  The pure-electric Bolt shares a production line with the Sonic.  The Volt is the most popular hybrid plug-in in the U.S.  The Cadillac CT6 is the only model with Super Cruise (a rollout to all models had been expected in 2020). 

So, what of the promised increase of Bolt production by the end of 2018?  The fact that it is their biggest compliance vehicle is probably the only thing keeping it alive.  For now….

Edit:  confirmed, production of the Volt is ending.  
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/26/18112536/gm-layoffs-factory-closing-ending-production-chevy-volt

[Sigmetnow]

Wow!

Rivian unveils all-electric pickup truck with unbelievable specs

Deliveries of the R1T are expected to begin in “late 2020”, according to the company.  They are taking a similar approach as Tesla with the Model 3 – meaning that the higher-end versions of the vehicle will be available first.

In this case, we are talking about the 180 kWh pack (400+ miles range) and 135 kWh pack, which Rivian says will be available at launch.

As for the base version with the 105 kWh pack (230+ miles range), they expect it to be available “within 12 months of the start of production.”

The Rivian R1T will start at $69,000 before incentives in the US and they are now taking refundable $1,000 deposit to place a reservation.

https://electrek.co/2018/11/26/rivian-r1t-all-electric-pickup-specs/

Launch event tonight.  They purchased a former auto manufacturing plant in Illinois last year.

[Sigmetnow]

The state of Colorado recently passed a low-emission vehicle (LEV) standard to start with the 2022 vehicle model year.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/25/colorado-passes-new-low-emission-vehicle-standard/


UK Buyers Unlikely To Consider Electric: Here's Why
https://insideevs.com/uk-buyers-unlikely-consider-electric-heres-why/

Charging infrastructure/time, price, performance, choice — nothing that won’t be solved over the next few years.

[oren]

The Rivian pickup is indeed impressive, and one-upping with an earlier unveil than the Tesla pickup.

[gerontocrat]

UK Buyers Unlikely To Consider Electric: Here's Why
https://insideevs.com/uk-buyers-unlikely-consider-electric-heres-why/

meanwhile, my Government blah-blahs about how the UK is a world leader in....blah blah

[etienne]

UK Buyers Unlikely To Consider Electric: Here's Why
https://insideevs.com/uk-buyers-unlikely-consider-electric-heres-why/

Charging infrastructure/time, price, performance, choice — nothing that won’t be solved over the next few years.

Well, I see as major problem that you need a place to load your car, and if you don't live in a house with a private parking place, it's quite difficult. In Luxembourg, on public loading infrastructure you pay almost 100% more per kWh than if you load your car at home, right now it's always free, but that might not be for ever. Takes about two or three years to get an ROI on your private car loader.

[Sigmetnow]

The Rivian pickup is indeed impressive, and one-upping with an earlier unveil than the Tesla pickup.

Yes, Rivian’s reveal will be first.  And even if their first deliveries are “late 2020,” versus the Tesla pickup in 2019, that may not dampen the Rivian’s sales significantly.  During the Recode interview, Musk said the Tesla pickup will be “like a really futuristic-like cyberpunk, ‘Blade Runner’ pickup truck,” — which might not appeal to the masses.  He even suggested that if it does not sell well, he would go back and offer a less radical pickup.

Plenty of market out there for lots of different electric trucks!

[Sigmetnow]

UK Buyers Unlikely To Consider Electric: Here's Why
https://insideevs.com/uk-buyers-unlikely-consider-electric-heres-why/

Charging infrastructure/time, price, performance, choice — nothing that won’t be solved over the next few years.

Well, I see as major problem that you need a place to load your car, and if you don't live in a house with a private parking place, it's quite difficult. In Luxembourg, on public loading infrastructure you pay almost 100% more per kWh than if you load your car at home, right now it's always free, but that might not be for ever. Takes about two or three years to get an ROI on your private car loader.

As the EV fleet grows, making investing in charging infrastructure more of a sure bet... and fast-charging equipment becomes less expensive, and solar/battery charging plazas become more commonplace... competition and mass production will bring charging prices down.  This is not like gas/petrol/diesel, where providers are subject to the whims and misfortunes of extraction, refineries and transport from distant places and foreign countries.

[etienne]

I'm not sure that electricity in public loading station would drop so much. Supermarket also have an important margin on what they sale, even if it is just milk. And a 3 years ROI is the minimum that business want, so loading on a public point will always be more expensive than at home. Suppliers are not non profit organisations.

[Sigmetnow]

More on the GM closings.

 
“CEO Mary Barra is seeking to reposition GM for a future defined by self-driving cars, ride-sharing networks and electric vehicles.”
General Motors set to close plants Michigan, Ohio, Maryland, Canada
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/11/26/gm-general-motors-plant-closures-job-cuts/2113275002/


GM kills the Chevy Volt, shuts down factories, but accelerates EV investment

Similar to what Ford did earlier this year, GM says that it is moving away from sedans and it is instead focusing on “trucks, crossovers and SUVs.”

They now say that they will prioritize “investments in its next-generation battery-electric architectures”:
“GM now intends to prioritize future vehicle investments in its next-generation battery-electric architectures. As the current vehicle portfolio is optimized, it is expected that more than 75 percent of GM’s global sales volume will come from five vehicle architectures by early next decade.”

CEO Mary Barra said that it would result in doubling the company’s investment in electric vehicles and self-driving technology. …

https://electrek.co/2018/11/26/gm-chevy-volt-factory-shutdown-electric-investmet/

I wonder if there might be a young, growing automaker who would be interested in purchasing a shuttered GM plant in the eastern U.S., with many unemployed autoworkers living nearby...?

Edit:  It would be nice if the federal government made Tesla sales and service legal in all states, for a start.  Looking at you, Michigan!

[Neven]

The Rivian pickup is indeed impressive, and one-upping with an earlier unveil than the Tesla pickup.

It's impressively dumb. 

[Sigmetnow]

The Rivian pickup is indeed impressive, and one-upping with an earlier unveil than the Tesla pickup.

It's impressively dumb. 

Why do you think that?  An e-truck is not going to be cheap, so won’t sell if it doesn’t have outstanding performance and features — doubly so, to win over die-hard petrol-heads.

Bollinger is going after the minimalist market: the people who want an electric truck but don’t care about the bells and whistles.  But pickup trucks in the U.S. are often “loaded with features” and sell in this price range.  The Rivian is exactly what’s needed to get people off fossil fuels, and its electric drive train will last long enough to take the place of several ICE trucks the owners would have otherwise gone through.

[Sigmetnow]

More on the GM closings.  I’m seeing discussion of the labor unions potentially hijacking the process, hindering GM’s transition to EVs.  GM’s finance arm, capital structure, and retirement obligations — particularly retiree health care — have ossified the company.


Ontario Premier Doug Ford said he talked to the head of GM on Sunday and was told "the ship has already left the dock" when he asked if there was anything Ontario could do.
GM to slash up to 14,000 jobs in North America; 7 plants could close as part of restructuring - Chicago Tribune
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-gm-plant-closing-restructuring-20181126-story,amp.html
   
 ——

Canada:  Federal government quietly writes off loan to auto sector — but won't reveal sum or say who got it
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/loans-canada-account-finance-auto-sector-bailout-2009-gm-chrysler-1.4722529
     
 ——

Thousands moved out for a new GM factory; now it's closing

In 1981, the Michigan Supreme Court approved a decision to allow Detroit to tear down up to 1,500 homes, more than 140 businesses, a hospital and six churches to build the $500 million plant. The Detroit News reported 4,200 people lost their homes as a result.

GM convinced officials in the cities of Detroit and Hamtramck, the state of Michigan - and ultimately the state's highest court - to use eminent domain, a controversial process in which government seizes private land. ...

"They destroyed homes and churches and local businesses, all to build that plant," Majewski said. "Now that the plant is going to close, people will wonder why that neighborhood had to be sacrificed in the first place." ...

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1NV2MH

[Neven]

It's impressively dumb. 

Why do you think that?  An e-truck is not going to be cheap, so won’t sell if it doesn’t have outstanding performance and features — doubly so, to win over die-hard petrol-heads.

A 180 kWh pack (400+ miles range)? That's around 35 thousand kg of CO2. That's not a solution or improvement, it's just plain stupid. You cannot ever greenify such a culture, you have to change it. If you can't change it (even though you're very serious about AGW), you have to accept that there is no solution and human societies will collapse.

That Rivian should be spat upon. There should be a taboo on it. Just accepting such nonsense and cheering it on, is effectively murdering people. What Tesla has done so far, is where I draw the line, not an inch further.

[Sigmetnow]

It's impressively dumb. 

Why do you think that?  An e-truck is not going to be cheap, so won’t sell if it doesn’t have outstanding performance and features — doubly so, to win over die-hard petrol-heads.

A 180 kWh pack (400+ miles range)? That's around 35 thousand kg of CO2. That's not a solution or improvement, it's just plain stupid. You cannot ever greenify such a culture, you have to change it. If you can't change it (even though you're very serious about AGW), you have to accept that there is no solution and human societies will collapse.

That Rivian should be spat upon. There should be a taboo on it. Just accepting such nonsense and cheering it on, is effectively murdering people. What Tesla has done so far, is where I draw the line, not an inch further.

So it seems it’s People who are dumb, not the product.  If no one bought the Rivian, because it was too over-the-top, manufacturers would concentrate on higher quality, lower-end products — but, they still need the capital to develop the technology and the mass production lines to be able to build such products sustainably.  That will take a few more years and a few million more sales, but it will happen.

[oren]

A 180 kWh pack (400+ miles range)? That's around 35 thousand kg of CO2. That's not a solution or improvement, it's just plain stupid. You cannot ever greenify such a culture, you have to change it. If you can't change it (even though you're very serious about AGW), you have to accept that there is no solution and human societies will collapse.

It's the age old Green BAU argument - is it better to work within the current system with (very) partial solutions, or avoid these solutions and wait for society to wake up and the system to change.

In a society like the USA where it is considered very much okay to buy monster gas-guzzling pickups trucks, is it better to try and replace them with monster electric pickup trucks, or not? It's a good question.

My feeling - you can't change such a culture in the next decade, and collapse is guaranteed barring some miracle. But while waiting for that miracle, it's probably better to do something very partial (and cooperating with that disgusting culture) than to do nothing.

I do prefer Tesla's approach of going after the masses with a sedan first.

[Neven]

A 180 kWh pack (400+ miles range)? That's around 35 thousand kg of CO2. That's not a solution or improvement, it's just plain stupid. You cannot ever greenify such a culture, you have to change it. If you can't change it (even though you're very serious about AGW), you have to accept that there is no solution and human societies will collapse.

It's the age old Green BAU argument - is it better to work within the current system with (very) partial solutions, or avoid these solutions and wait for society to wake up and the system to change.

And what's the best thing to do on a Forum that is about Arctic sea ice loss and AGW in general? If not even the people who take AGW seriously, denounce this kind of insane stuff, it's no wonder that western culture doesn't change.

So, if you say 'impressive', bending over backwards to 'win over die-hard petrol-heads', I say 'impressively dumb'. Green BAU can work (for a while), but this goes beyond Green BAU. What's this 'car' going to weigh? 4000 kg?

[SteveMDFP]

A 180 kWh pack (400+ miles range)? That's around 35 thousand kg of CO2. That's not a solution or improvement, it's just plain stupid. 

Your calculation is for the manufacture of the battery?
Might or might not be stupid.
For a commuter, a big pickup truck or SUV is indeed stupid, electric or ICE.  The electric is just a little less stupid.

For a contractor, it may be very, very intelligent.  That battery pack is a power source for power tools.  Its capacity may well replace a portable generator.  Very smart.

An over-capacity battery will far less often be fully discharged, and will last much longer.  When the vehicle becomes unusable, that used over-capacity battery will likely live on in some fixed power setting, and will have much more usable life there.  The capacity and its lifespan won't be wasted.

[Sigmetnow]

It’s not just EVs causing the big business shuffle.

GM also announced that the taxes the president imposed on steel and aluminum imports have cost the company $1 billion

GM may have been forced to restructure to accommodate a changing market regardless of whether Trump instituted tariffs on imported steel and aluminum, but the effect these tariffs — and the threat of potential tariffs on all imported automobiles — exacerbated the pressure to do so. GM announced on Monday that Trump’s tariffs have cost the company $1 billion, and that while they are not directly responsible for the layoffs, they are among the “headwinds,” as Barra put it on a conference call, that the company is facing as it struggles to remain profitable.

Companies across a number of industries have been forced to make cuts or shut down plants as a result of the tariffs, which don’t seem to be going away anytime soon. ...

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/gm-layoffs-trump-tariffs-760003/

[TerryM]

Yes, it should be more widely shared that electric vehicles under-perform in the cold. We basically couldn't use our early model electric car (Zenn) in the winter here in Minnesota. I assume they have improved, but the basic physics of the thing mean they will always lose some performance in cold weather, it seems to me.

This is my ninth Minnesota winter driving an EV.
Range definitely takes a hit.  The average loss for our cars has been 30%, max range loss of 50%.  Our ICE vehicles lost 20% efficiency on average.

It is basic physics.  Cold air is denser, there is more rolling resistance, and for EVs, battery power is used to heat the car.

Charging at sub freezing temps has never damaged any EV I am aware of.  Most EVs (All?) either have temperature management, or trickle charge the batteries until they warm up enough to take a charge at normal rates.

Wow!
Someone with real life experience in a subject that most of us only wonder about.


My Ontario experience with winter driving efficiency has been that when Winter Mix gasoline is mandated, my mileage drops ~15%. I'm sure temperatures and road conditions have some effect, but the biggy seems to be the difference in the fuel.


I'm assuming that you charge up at home where many hours hooked to the grid is no problem. Have you taken any long distance trips during winter months where you've used a "Super Charger" to top up the battery while you waited? Were the charging times similar to those experienced during the summer?


The photo's I've seen of highway charging stations don't appear to offer any shielding from wind or weather.


Tesla's model 3 apparently doesn't include any provisions for heating their battery. I've no idea how well insulated it is, but after a night of parking in sub-zero weather I'd assume whatever heat had built up while driving would have been lost.


Could I ask what brand(s) of EV you've owned?


Thanks in advance for the first hand knowledge.
Terry

[magnamentis]

Tesla's model 3 apparently doesn't include any provisions for heating their battery.
Terry

batteries heat up on discharge as well as on charger, hence there is no need to heat them and as it was mentioned, managing the currents upon starting a drive and/or a charge does the job.

most batteries cannot be charged at full speed due to overheating issues while quick-charging, hence, more often, batteries have to be cooled to perform as expected or currents have to be reduced at each end of charging cycles. (< 10% / >90% )

BTW this can be compared to the fact that a cold ICE either has to be used at low revs and low gas and in canada, as you know, at least my both chevys had a cable with a plug to heat up the engine before even trying to start it once i couldn't access my house due to rain into 1m of fresh snow before plowing and that was it till temps rose again, so that i was able to start the engine of my car which i had to park 800m from my house due to the impossibility to plow the over-frozen snow layer. (that was in nova scotia, not the coldest place in canada by far as we both know) at least there are frequent temperature shifts between -20 and +10C in winter but in a more northerly territory that would have been it till spring.

[Sigmetnow]

Article is about BEVs, not just Tesla — although Tesla is a large part of the reason BEVs are hot, and hybrids are not.

The Plug-In Hybrid Car Hits Its Stride, Just in Time to Die
With Tesla fever running high, middle-ground vehicles are becoming irrelevant.

About 18 months ago, Bayerische Motoren Werke AG started selling a plug-in hybrid version of its midsize sedan for the first time. The 530e is a more expensive, bulkier version of the German automaker’s sports sedan. It goes about 30 miles on a charge and tops out at an Autobahn-friendly 146 miles per hour. It’s the kind of hybrid that hyper-milers could have only imagined back when Toyota unveiled the original Prius two decades ago.

The BMW 530e is more opulent than a Tesla and arguably more pleasant to drive, but customers don’t seem to care. Tesla’s all-electric Model 3 started trickling to buyers in late 2017 and, in the past year, has outsold the BMW by about 15-to-1.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that plug-in hybrid vehicles, those green chimeras that have long promised to carry creaky, old car companies into an energy-efficient future, will never grow past their current position as an automotive also-ran. The battery-electric car now appears poised to turn these hybrids into a historical blip.
...

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-11-26/the-plug-in-hybrid-car-hits-its-stride-just-in-time-to-die

[TerryM]

Tesla's model 3 apparently doesn't include any provisions for heating their battery.
Terry

batteries heat up on discharge as well as on charger, hence there is no need to heat them and as it was mentioned, managing the currents upon starting a drive and/or a charge does the job.

most batteries cannot be charged at full speed due to overheating issues on charging, hence more often batteries have to cooled to perform as expected or currents have to be reduced at the edges, beginning and ending of charges (< 10% / >90% )

BTW this can be compared to the fact that a cold ICE either has to be used at low revs and a low gas and in canada, as you know, at least my both chevys had a cable with a blug to heat up the engine before even trying to start it once i couldn't access my house due to rain into 1m of fresh snow before plowing and that was it till temps rose to start the engine of the car which i had to park 800m from my house due to impossibility to blow the overfrozen snow layer. (that was in nova scotia, not the coldest place in canada by far as we both know) at least there are frequent temperature shifts between -20 and +10C in winter but in a more northerly territory that would have been it till spring.

In N. Quebec the autos all have a 110v cord to keep them viable & every parking meter has a outlet. It's the only place I ever experienced -40 C or F, it makes no difference.
As a kid we had an outlet in the garage for a trickle charger to keep the battery peaked up in the winter. Today's vehicles apparently don't need them.


I believe most EVs have battery cooling systems in place. Tesla S & X also have battery heaters, but not the model 3.
I've no idea why this should be so.
Terry

[Sigmetnow]

...
I believe most EVs have battery cooling systems in place. Tesla S & X also have battery heaters, but not the model 3.
I've no idea why this should be so.
Terry

Terry, your (Amazon?) link info is not correct.

From the Model 3 Owners Manual:

If Model 3 is plugged in, you can heat your Battery using wall power by turning on climate control using the mobile app.

[TerryM]

From the Model 3 Owners Manual:

If Model 3 is plugged in, you can heat your Battery using wall power by turning on climate control using the mobile app.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-range-loss-bitter-cold-video/

"Basically, the Model 3 doesn’t have a battery heater but instead uses waste heat to attempt to warm the pack. This isn’t as efficient as the systems in the Model S and X and also leads to issues when it comes to Supercharging. The battery simply won’t charge as fast if it’s not kept warm."

"Needless to say, if you plan on owning a Model 3 in an area that experiences extreme cold on a regular basis, you’re going to see considerable range loss. Additionally, plan on spending a significant amount of time charging. "

My bolding.
Terry

[Sigmetnow]

From the Model 3 Owners Manual:

If Model 3 is plugged in, you can heat your Battery using wall power by turning on climate control using the mobile app.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-range-loss-bitter-cold-video/

"Basically, the Model 3 doesn’t have a battery heater but instead uses waste heat to attempt to warm the pack. This isn’t as efficient as the systems in the Model S and X and also leads to issues when it comes to Supercharging. The battery simply won’t charge as fast if it’s not kept warm."

"Needless to say, if you plan on owning a Model 3 in an area that experiences extreme cold on a regular basis, you’re going to see considerable range loss. Additionally, plan on spending a significant amount of time charging. "

My bolding.
Terry

Not sure what insideevs means by “significant amount,” but:

To ensure maximum driving range and Battery safety, the Battery charge rate is decreased when the Battery is too cold, when the Battery’s charge is nearly full, and when the Battery conditions change with usage and age. These changes in the condition of the Battery are driven by battery physics and may increase the total Supercharging duration by a few minutes over time.

From the Owners Manual.  My bolding.

There is no indication that it is necessary to plug-in the car to protect the battery when parked in cold weather.  Thus, a battery heater would normally only be needed for the sake of convenience.

Temperature Limits
For better long-term performance, avoid exposing Model 3 to ambient temperatures above 140° F (60° C) or below -22° F (-30° C) for more than 24 hours at a time.

[Zythryn]

From the Model 3 Owners Manual:

If Model 3 is plugged in, you can heat your Battery using wall power by turning on climate control using the mobile app.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-range-loss-bitter-cold-video/



"Basically, the Model 3 doesn’t have a battery heater but instead uses waste heat to attempt to warm the pack. This isn’t as efficient as the systems in the Model S and X and also leads to issues when it comes to Supercharging. The battery simply won’t charge as fast if it’s not kept warm."

"Needless to say, if you plan on owning a Model 3 in an area that experiences extreme cold on a regular basis, you’re going to see considerable range loss. Additionally, plan on spending a significant amount of time charging. "

My bolding.
Terry

All I can tell you is that the Model 3 looses the same ratio of range as both the S and X.
I believe the what you quoted is simply incorrect.

Our family has owned and driven in winter the Tesla Roadster, S, X, 3.  As well as the Volt and a converted plugin Prius.

We do garage our cars overnight.  Outside during work or travel the Model 3 warms up just fine rebotely.  Regen is limited, but not as limited as the Model S after being cold soaked.
SuperCharging will take longer, as it limits amperage until the battery pack warms to optimal temperature to allow high speed charging.

Hope that is helpful?

[Archimid]

Vehicles with large carrying capacity are needed to build and maintain our food supplies, electricity, running water and even homes.  Even if we did away with everything else, we would still need to transport heavy materials just to keep the world alive. Humanity needs a way to move mass around without emitting.

That said, this is not a work vehicle. This is luxury but if one of these things means one less ICE luxury trucks and SUV's, I'm all for it.

I'm curious about your figure of 35,000 kg of CO2.  Source?  What if the battery factory is solar and wind powered? What if the Semi trucks used to transport all sub components of the batteries are electric and charged with renewables? What if all vehicles and tools used in the mining operations are powered by renewables? Then the emissions of the batteries would be 0.

Are we there yet, no. But there is a path to get there and there might be time to get there. Even with all that is happening in geopolitics and geophysics, there is much that can be done.

If there isn't enough time (War, BOE, etc.), the more people with self powered homes, home chargeable cars and food gardens, the better our chances as a species. Energy independence provides an edge that might mean the difference between life and death.

I don't think you have to worry about BAU. BAU is ending because they didn't want BAU to end. That's cooked in already, specially with the US blind to climate change (but paying for it). This is a step away from BAU in the direction of whatever there is post BAU. We will still need to move stuff around either post BAU or in the apocalypse.

[Tor Bejnar]

L.A. Auto Show: 5 electric cars coming soon

Fox News - "L.A." as in Los Angeles, California, USA

Kia Soul EV
Rivian R1T and R1s (2020/2021)
Audi E-Tron GT Concept (2021)
VW I.D. Buzz Cargo (2022)

interesting what Fox doesn't mention.

From the LA Auto Show website

The LA Auto Show is excited to feature dozens of electric vehicles from various automakers. November 30 - December 9, 2018 at the LA Convention Center.

Several are actually hybrids.

[Sigmetnow]

It’s not only the tariffs.  But tariffs are an easy target for blame.

Don’t Blame Trump for GM’s Layoffs—Blame GM
The auto industry shaped and sustained the retrograde world which it now finds itself having to navigate out of—and U.S. consumers went along for the ride.

As Donald Trump entered office, General Motors had a choice.

It could have publicly supported the rules it had agreed to in negotiations with the Obama administration and California, and continued on the righteous path toward more efficient cars, hybrids and electrification, with a profit cushion provided by Obama’s surprising willingness to craft regulations that allowed the industry’s main profit engine—SUVs—to go forward while offering federal electric-car tax credits which would help drive demand. Or it could wind the clock back as far as the Trump administration would let it.

Though there are competing impulses within the company, this week’s surprise announcement that GM, despite earning profits, would lay off 15 percent of its salaried workers and shutter five North American plants very clearly lines up with the latter imperative. It helps move GM, like Ford and Fiat Chrysler, to an all-SUV model lineup, as the company marches steadily away from ordinary passenger cars—the coupes, sedans, station wagons and minivans of yore—in favor of cars and trucks that are necessarily heavier and higher, thus less aerodynamic, with a corresponding loss in fuel efficiency.

If GM is indeed looking far into the future, it’s doing so by first clinging to the past. And in the process, it has angered a president who gave the company its first dream (lower taxes) and then more than it had ever bargained for: the upending of Obama-era fuel economy rules for the years ahead, while stalling, crippling and generally fighting the Environmental Protection Agency and California initiatives aimed at better policing automotive emissions. ...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/11/29/general-motors-trump-layoffs-factories-auto-industry-222696

Here's the buyout GM offered before announcing 14,000 job cuts
   •   Before its layoff announcement, GM had offered voluntary buyouts to 17,700 employees, citing stiff competition and a tough economy.
   •   About 2,250 workers took buyouts; the company was aiming for 8,000 "voluntary" separations.
   •   GM announced 14,000 job cuts this week. ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/28/heres-the-buyout-gm-offered-before-announcing-14000-job-cuts.html

Car market collapse outruns GM moves to keep up

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Co’s monumental announcement on Monday that it will close three car assembly plants in North America and slash its workforce will only partially close the gap between capacity and demand for the automaker’s sedans, according to a Reuters analysis of industry production and capacity data.
Sales of traditional passenger cars in North America have been declining for the past six years and are still withering. After GM ends production next year at factories in Michigan, Ohio and Ontario, it will still have four U.S. car plants, all operating at less than 50 percent of rated capacity, according to figures supplied by LMC Automotive.
In comparison, Detroit-based rivals Ford Motor Co and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV will have one car plant each in North America after 2019.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-restructuring-autos/car-market-collapse-outruns-gm-moves-to-keep-up-idUSKCN1NX1IP

Another article (I won’t link to) blamed GM’s misfortunes on “Obama’s rules,” chasing subsidies, and building “dirty” EVs nobody wants. 

Related:
Trump tariffs blamed for slowdown, less hiring at new Volvo plant in South Carolina
   •   Volvo's North American warned earlier this month that the tariffs could force the company to rethink plans to ramp up production and hire new workers at the South Carolina plant.
   •   Volvo's global CEO Håkan Samuelsson told reporters at the Los Angeles Auto Show Thursday that Volvo is slowing the pace at which production is being ramped up in Charleston.
   •   The change will also slow down hiring.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/29/trump-tariffs-blamed-for-slowdown-at-new-volvo-plant-in-south-carolina.html

[Sigmetnow]

ChargePoint raises $240 million from Daimler, BMW, and others to accelerate EV charging infrastructure
https://electrek.co/2018/11/28/chargepoint-raises-240-million-daimler-bmw-accelerate-ev-charging-infrastructure/

Nissan launches 'Nissan Energy' to commercialize vehicle-to-home/building with the Leaf
https://electrek.co/2018/11/28/nissan-energy-leaf-vehicle-to-home-building/

Racine Chevrolet In Quebec Is Using The Tesla Model 3 To Sell Electric Vehicles

In the province of Québec, the #1 EV on the road is the Chevy Volt, and the #4 is the Bolt. This leads to Racine Chevrolet wanting to sell more EVs, but it is limited by what is available. If it could get its hands on more clean vehicles, they would sell more.

Racine Chevrolet’s president, Florian Boire, has set a goal of becoming the #1 dealership in electric vehicle sales in Québec. In order to achieve this, the dealership opened a pre-owned EV division that will sell all EV brands, not just those from Chevrolet or even General Motors. The improved system is starting with Nissan LEAFs and BMW i3s, but all other EVs will follow, even Teslas. Racine is currently keeping 15 pre-owned EVs in inventory and is working to increase that number to 75. ...

Until December 31st, 2018, Québec has a pre-owned electric vehicle (EV) incentive of $4,000 CAD. The aim is to increase the availability and purchase of inexpensive used EVs to accelerate the electrification of Québec’s transport system. The target of the new incentive is to hit 100,000 EVs in the province by 2020. The last tally at the end of September showed that 35,170 EVs had been sold and sales were on the rise, following an exponential growth curve. According to FleetCarma, Québec achieved a 3.3% EV market share in the second quarter of 2018, which is quite high globally.

Despite Québec’s Zero Emission Law forcing manufacturers to offer electric vehicles, the offerings are always smaller than demand. However, with the new incentive, drivers can purchase pre-owned EVs from the 1 million used plug-in vehicles in the United States and import them into Québec. Since the incentive was implemented a year ago, 1,136 plug-in vehicles have been imported from the US. ...

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/27/racine-chevrolet-in-quebec-is-using-the-tesla-model-3-to-sell-electric-vehicles/

[Sigmetnow]

New study confirms that even a luxury BEV is cleaner than a mini ICEV.

Two factors are important to note here. First, the electricity generation is getting greener every day, so your plug-in vehicle is getting greener every day. Second, the further an electric car drives, the more it offsets its production and end-of-life impact. Again, as I have said before, studies like the one in question tend to grossly underestimate the life span of BEVs compared to ICEVs.

The graph below is great for showing that the difference in total GHG emissions is significant for the whole range of car classes. It’s important to get the message through that even a luxury BEV is less polluting than a mini ICEV, provided they reach a normal yearly mileage. It’s clear that even a luxury BEV offsets its higher manufacturing environmental impact just a little bit slower than the mini BEV, whereas just one luxury ICEV has the same total emissions as a mini ICEV and a mini BEV. But since the graph is based on a lifetime of 180,000 km (112,000 miles) for both BEVs and ICEV, the BEV numbers are very conservative.

The BEV contains a fraction of moving parts compared to the ICEV, and there is no reason to believe that the one fragile part in the system, the battery, should not hold a capacity above 90% for at least 200,000 miles by today’s manufacturing standards. And even then, it’s actually not broken, and most people won’t even notice the capacity dipping under 90% because they won’t use the full range very often anyway, at least not when we are talking modern +200 mile range cars like the Tesla Model 3 and Hyundai Kona. By the way, Tesla’s target for their cars is 7x the life of an ICEV. ...

New Report On Electric Vehicles From A Life Cycle & Circular Economy Perspective
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/29/new-report-on-electric-vehicles-from-a-life-cycle-circular-economy-perspective/

The impact by everyday use of a vehicle is probably the most interesting for anyone in search for a practical passenger car. The following is based on the current energy mix in Europe, and despite the variation in greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions from electricity generation, it’s clear that the BEV is the best choice (REEV stands for Range Extended Electric Vehicles, like the BMW i3 Rex).

[TerryM]

I've been getting over 250,000 miles out of every ICEV that I've owned for many decades. Is Elon expecting the vehicles now on the road to still be roadworthy after 1.75 million miles?


If a vehicle lasts 7 times longer than it's predecessor, then only 14% of the new models will need to be manufactured to keep up with demand. One could hand down the Tesla as a family heirloom.


Once everyone in the village has purchased their Tesla, the "not-a-sales-force" can lock their doors and not return for decades. Once we've run out of sated villages we can start shuttering the factories. A few timely over the air upgrades, a little wax, and grandpa's vintage Model X will be inherited by another teen that will never purchase a car in his lifetime!


There was once a great future in building cathedrals, then every village that wanted one had one, and the damn things lasted forever. The now displaced masons couldn't build churches and transformed their guild into a secretive society whose members couldn't trim a slab of marble if their life depended on it.


Are we destined to see the Secret Brotherhood of Assemblers wearing 3 piece suits, greeting each other with secret handshakes, and performing strange rituals?


Terry

[Archimid]

On EV vs ICE durability. ICE have huge disadvantages.

Engine vibration, however small, will place additional stress in all components of the vehicle where vibration reaches. EV's have no pistons moving up and down at extremely high speed.

Temperature. As the name implies, internal combustion is a very hot process. More heat means increased degradation.

Belt driven components. All belt driven components are subject to tremendous stress all the time. They degrade fast. Many electric cars forgo belt driven components in favor of electric components.

The weakest points for EV's are things like pumps (for battery cooling and AC) and electric motors (power windows, power seats etc). Pumps will degrade and breakdown, but ICE have just as many pumps. High quality electric motors will last a very long time.

[gerontocrat]

I've been getting over 250,000 miles out of every ICEV that I've owned for many decades. Is Elon expecting the vehicles now on the road to still be roadworthy after 1.75 million miles?

If a vehicle lasts 7 times longer than it's predecessor, then only 14% of the new models will need to be manufactured to keep up with demand. One could hand down the Tesla as a family heirloom.

Once everyone in the village has purchased their Tesla, the "not-a-sales-force" can lock their doors and not return for decades. Once we've run out of sated villages we can start shuttering the factories. A few timely over the air upgrades, a little wax, and grandpa's vintage Model X will be inherited by another teen that will never purchase a car in his lifetime!

There was once a great future in building cathedrals, then every village that wanted one had one, and the damn things lasted forever. The now displaced masons couldn't build churches and transformed their guild into a secretive society whose members couldn't trim a slab of marble if their life depended on it.

Are we destined to see the Secret Brotherhood of Assemblers wearing 3 piece suits, greeting each other with secret handshakes, and performing strange rituals?

Terry

Hullo Terry - this new world the young(er than us) are creating is getting beyond me.

You are not buying an Auto - you are buying an identity statement, a technology centre that can also move you around almost as a by-product.

So you buy the metal and plastic box, and then you buy the software updates, a few examples....
- self-driving,
- AI applications,
- 3-d visualisations,
- communications, with your wife, your lover, your husband, your other lover, your TV, your central heating / air conditioning system, your shrink, your medical practitioners, your personal drone hovering close by, .....
- entertainment centre (tactile sensation coming soon),
- mobile office, (boring)
Etc etc etc.

The mobile/cell phone market is saturated in many countries but sales rise. Because it is not a phone any more, it is a life-style. If you have not got the latest, LOSER! That is me for sure.

I've had enough - off to sharpen a few quill pens.

[Sigmetnow]

I've been getting over 250,000 miles out of every ICEV that I've owned for many decades. Is Elon expecting the vehicles now on the road to still be roadworthy after 1.75 million miles?


If a vehicle lasts 7 times longer than it's predecessor, then only 14% of the new models will need to be manufactured to keep up with demand. One could hand down the Tesla as a family heirloom.
...
Terry

Terry,
Indeed. Teslas have an infinite-mile drive unit warranty.  Updating the car’s software gives it new capabilities, replacing the need to buy a new car every few years for those afflicted with the Fear of Missing Out.


Infinite Mile Warranty
Elon Musk, CEO August 15, 2014
The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty-ms-mx

[Sigmetnow]

Other batteries may vary, but for Tesla batteries’ State of Charge (SoC):  Charging regularly to 80 or 90% is fine. And below 5% poses no issues.

LikeTesla (@LikeTeslaKim) 11/30/18, 11:16 PM
@elonmusk any insight on the best nightly SoC for battery longevity? 90%, 70%, 50%?
Any software fix for unbalanced cells due to sub 90% nightly charges?

Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/1/18, 12:57 AM
@LikeTeslaKim Not worth going below 80% imo. Even 90% is still fine. Also, no issue going to 5% or lower SoC.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1068745921079345152

——

EV batteries can be sealed against water intrusion.

<< @elonmusk When I drive my Tesla through a mud puddle I always get afraid of getting electrocuted. Please advise.
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 11/30/18, 2:06 PM
@rainnwilson Your Tesla can function as a boat for brief periods of time
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1068582126306582528

Watch a Tesla Model S drive (or swim) through a flooded tunnel [Video]
https://electrek.co/2016/06/18/tesla-model-s-driving-swimming-flooded-tunnel-video/

[Sigmetnow]

Nissan Canceled New LEAF Model Debut Amid Turmoil

LOS ANGELES— Nissan Motor Co. was hoping to make a big splash with the unveiling of a longer-range Leaf electric car at the Los Angeles Auto Show this week. It hired Hollywood actress Margot Robbie to help introduce the upgrade model and rented out space at the Japanese American National Museum for a gala event for the media.

But with news of the arrest of Nissan’s former Chairman and Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn threatening to overshadow the reveal, the company decided to postpone the Leaf’s official announcement.
…
At the L.A. auto show, Nissan limited its debuts to a slightly newer version of its Maxima sedan and Murano crossover. The highly anticipated upgrade of the Leaf electric vehicle lineup was noticeably absent.

Meanwhile, Hyundai Motor Co. unveiled a pair of small electric cars, and a new sport-utility vehicle and pickup truck from startup Rivian Automotive Inc. generated buzz.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nissan-cancels-electric-car-debut-amid-turmoil-1543593641

——

Trucks like this will inspire millions to ditch their ICE vehicles.
Rivian Shows Us How R1T Electric Truck Was Born
https://insideevs.com/rivian-r1t-electric-truck-created-video/
With 7 min video

——
Edit:
“Dutch goverments plans r revealed. They plan additional incentives (6k euros addt subsidy) from 2021 in order to achieve 2030 emission targets. ....”
https://twitter.com/Alpsoy66/status/1068238115117117441

Iedereen aan de elektrische auto, 6000 euro subsidie in 2021 | NOS
https://nos.nl/googleamp/artikel/2261387-iedereen-aan-de-elektrische-auto-6000-euro-subsidie-in-2021.html

[TerryM]

I've been getting over 250,000 miles out of every ICEV that I've owned for many decades. Is Elon expecting the vehicles now on the road to still be roadworthy after 1.75 million miles?

If a vehicle lasts 7 times longer than it's predecessor, then only 14% of the new models will need to be manufactured to keep up with demand. One could hand down the Tesla as a family heirloom.

Once everyone in the village has purchased their Tesla, the "not-a-sales-force" can lock their doors and not return for decades. Once we've run out of sated villages we can start shuttering the factories. A few timely over the air upgrades, a little wax, and grandpa's vintage Model X will be inherited by another teen that will never purchase a car in his lifetime!

There was once a great future in building cathedrals, then every village that wanted one had one, and the damn things lasted forever. The now displaced masons couldn't build churches and transformed their guild into a secretive society whose members couldn't trim a slab of marble if their life depended on it.

Are we destined to see the Secret Brotherhood of Assemblers wearing 3 piece suits, greeting each other with secret handshakes, and performing strange rituals?

Terry

Hullo Terry - this new world the young(er than us) are creating is getting beyond me.

You are not buying an Auto - you are buying an identity statement, a technology centre that can also move you around almost as a by-product.

So you buy the metal and plastic box, and then you buy the software updates, a few examples....
- self-driving,
- AI applications,
- 3-d visualisations,
- communications, with your wife, your lover, your husband, your other lover, your TV, your central heating / air conditioning system, your shrink, your medical practitioners, your personal drone hovering close by, .....
- entertainment centre (tactile sensation coming soon),
- mobile office, (boring)
Etc etc etc.

The mobile/cell phone market is saturated in many countries but sales rise. Because it is not a phone any more, it is a life-style. If you have not got the latest, LOSER! That is me for sure.

I've had enough - off to sharpen a few quill pens.

Understood.


My Rim z10 was the best available 5 years ago but got slammed by one of the first bot attacks. The battery still outlasts last year's Nezus, and it pulls in a stronger signal when out in the boonies.


I've always preferred an aged sports car to a new economy model, and I doubt that I'm unique. Even though my latest is a 2015 Passat.


If EV's last virtually forever, and the software receives timely updates, that new car smell can be purchased through Amazon at a very reasonable price.
Replacement gentlemen's handkerchiefs were once a profit making sideline. Then came Kleenex, and handkerchiefs were no longer actually used. The 3 I have have never been replaced, or out of their breast pocket for years.


When cars don't wear out, and new software avoids accidents, new stylings will be the only thing driving new purchases. Even preening to stay ahead of the Jones's will be limited at $35K a pop.


Be careful as you carve that venerable nib!
Terry

[Archimid]

Why battery-powered vehicles stack up better than hydrogen

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-battery-powered-vehicles-stack-hydrogen.html

Based on a wide scan of studies globally, we found that battery electric vehicles have significantly lower energy losses compared to other vehicle technologies. Interestingly, however, the well-to-wheel losses of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles were found to be almost as high as fossil fuel vehicles.

[Sigmetnow]

Tesla Driver (@m_xalher) 12/2/18, 10:04 AM
Sweden's EV Magazine tested Model S against iPace and Hyundai in 1,600 km winter drive. Tesla by far the most efficient (average charge stop 20 mins, Hyundai 1 hr). The iPace broke down.
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1069245854622593024

http://www.elbilen.org/teslan-overlagsen-och-djungelkatter-gillar-inte-kyla/

Tesla superior and jungle cats do not like cold
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elbilen.org%2Fteslan-overlagsen-och-djungelkatter-gillar-inte-kyla%2F&sandbox=1

————

Tesla Driver (@m_xalher) 12/2/18, 10:52 AM
More bad news from i-Pace in Norwegian media from November: i-Pace was «crushed» in brake test. «The new electric super car i-Pace gets an F in our test of emergency braking systems», rated «worst» of all 25 tested cars.
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1069258044838678529

https://www.dinside.no/motor/billigmerker-knuser-premium-biler-i-bremsetest/70472977/

The new, electric Jaguar i-Pace supercar gets streaked in our test of emergency braking systems.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dinside.no%2Fmotor%2Fbilligmerker-knuser-premium-biler-i-bremsetest%2F70472977%2F

[magnamentis]

Why battery-powered vehicles stack up better than hydrogen

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-battery-powered-vehicles-stack-hydrogen.html

Based on a wide scan of studies globally, we found that battery electric vehicles have significantly lower energy losses compared to other vehicle technologies. Interestingly, however, the well-to-wheel losses of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles were found to be almost as high as fossil fuel vehicles.

let's talk again once we're running into battery shortages and recycling problems due to the mass and then hydrogen can make use of the current technology and can be produced with renewables and are not fossil, won't add to greenhouse gas accumulation and other stuff like NOX, benzol etc. etc.

as i posted earlier, i'm convinced that we shall see a mix of technologies, depending on use cases. for city or mostly used in the city vehicles batteries will most probably prevail while for long distance travel including high daily milage jobs etc. we cold well see hydrogen/battery or fuel-cells/battery hybrids once fossils are not available too expensive or prohibited.

i could easily imagine something like a fuel cell powered vehicle with a decent battery that can be charged while the car is parked, kind of getting around charging stations and the related infrastructural problems once "everyone" would drive an EV.

after all we can now talk about replacing ICE-vehicles with anything better, but we also have to consider how thingswill be when all ICEs have been replaced by i.e. EVs.

everything single solution is shortsighted IMO and will be kind of a planned next big problem.

[Neven]

Hydrogen could have its own niche, like CNG has now.

[TerryM]

Hydrogen could have its own niche, like CNG has now.

CNG & LNG are much preferable to diesel, at least in some situations. Both Russia, and apparently the US have access to very inexpensive natural gas that is in some cases at least simply being flared off.


Russia is building LNG container ships for Arctic transit, and President Putin has expressed his desire to see Russian cars running on CNG with trucks utilizing LNG.


Eliminating the black carbon from burning bunker fuel might prolong the ASI's slow demise, and could push back the extermination timetable for some of the Arctic Ocean's inhabitants. The gigantic nuclear powered ice breaker are even cleaner, but few of the sea going nations have access to this technology.


I've no idea how efficient CNG or LNG vehicles are with regard to CO2/mile or kilometer, but eliminating NOX and other pollutants has to be a step in the right direction. I also understand that motors burning natural gas last far longer and require less maintenance than similar engines burning gasoline or diesel.


The technology is old, proven, and is only a minor change from what is now being mass produced. No exotic materials are required, and there would be no strain on the electrical grid. The fuel is so inexpensive and abundant that it's simply being flared off in many locations around the world today.


Biotic and abiotic CH4 occur naturally in many locations around the world. If CH4 is not burned it is a very strong GHG when released into the atmosphere. Why not utilize it for heating, generating electricity, and for transportation whenever possible?
Terry

[Sebastian Jones]

Not really a car, or a truck, not purely a snow machine either. However, this rather eccentric machine, sponsored by the Prince of Monaco (who got into EVs through his interest in motor racing) is, after a shake down celebrity cruise in the wilds of northern British Columbia, off to Antarctica to provide zero emissions transport on the ice.
https://www.prestigeelectriccar.com/en/news/2422/Venturi_Antarctica_first_zero-emissions_vehicle_for_hostile_terrain?fbclid=IwAR2ze5yG7WxUO0teH1JrZ6qGYtPXl6NNEGWRLYpF8gPrsRd0hWsVHuBzTz8

[zizek]

Hydrogen, ammonia, and biofuels will have to play a role. There are 37,047 million barrels of liquid fuels produced every year. That's the equivalent of 63,000 TWh of energy. Even at 25% combustion efficiency, you're looking at around 15,700 TWh of source to wheel (or plant) that needs to be replaced with renewables. That's in addition to decarbonizing the existing fossil fuel grid, which sits at about 13,800 TWh. And we still haven't even considered the additional capacity required due to the intermittent nature  of renewables, and the immediate power demand requirement of EV's.

[zizek]

A hint of irony is displayed by the people who are confident that batteries will be able to save our society from climate change.
The demand to replace ICEs with batteries is a response to humanity's arrogant act of endlessly producing and polluting without considering the consequences. Now, people are under this weird assumption that we can do the same thing with batteries. Who knows how this will play out

[TerryM]

Not really a car, or a truck, not purely a snow machine either. However, this rather eccentric machine, sponsored by the Prince of Monaco (who got into EVs through his interest in motor racing) is, after a shake down celebrity cruise in the wilds of northern British Columbia, off to Antarctica to provide zero emissions transport on the ice.
https://www.prestigeelectriccar.com/en/news/2422/Venturi_Antarctica_first_zero-emissions_vehicle_for_hostile_terrain?fbclid=IwAR2ze5yG7WxUO0teH1JrZ6qGYtPXl6NNEGWRLYpF8gPrsRd0hWsVHuBzTz8

Sebastian
I'm sure that the article wasn't written tongue in cheek, but the opportunities to lampoon this are huge.


Who would have more knowledge of Antarctic conditions than Prince Albert II of Monaco, and why wouldn't a Monegasque manufacturer have a deep understanding of the sub-zero conditions that their vehicle will encounter there?


Strange that the indigenous inhabitants of these regions didn't send a representative to voice the whole communities appreciation. Perhaps they feared the 35C heatwaves possible at Deese Lake B.C. where "Antartica" will again attempt to complete the course that rough weather had brought to an premature conclusion.


I'm sure that conditions in Antarctica will be much easier on the vehicle than conditions in central British Columbia proved to be, and that the diesel generators powering this pristine machine can be augmented with Antarctic solar power, as long as it's used only in the summer.


At 12 mph this "record setting vehicle" will attempt to retrace some of the Citron expeditions of the 1920's.
Ain't progress wonderful?


Terry

[TerryM]

Tesla Driver (@m_xalher) 12/2/18, 10:04 AM
Sweden's EV Magazine tested Model S against iPace and Hyundai in 1,600 km winter drive. Tesla by far the most efficient (average charge stop 20 mins, Hyundai 1 hr). The iPace broke down.
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1069245854622593024

http://www.elbilen.org/teslan-overlagsen-och-djungelkatter-gillar-inte-kyla/

Tesla superior and jungle cats do not like cold
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elbilen.org%2Fteslan-overlagsen-och-djungelkatter-gillar-inte-kyla%2F&sandbox=1

————

Tesla Driver (@m_xalher) 12/2/18, 10:52 AM
More bad news from i-Pace in Norwegian media from November: i-Pace was «crushed» in brake test. «The new electric super car i-Pace gets an F in our test of emergency braking systems», rated «worst» of all 25 tested cars.
https://twitter.com/m_xalher/status/1069258044838678529

https://www.dinside.no/motor/billigmerker-knuser-premium-biler-i-bremsetest/70472977/

The new, electric Jaguar i-Pace supercar gets streaked in our test of emergency braking systems.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dinside.no%2Fmotor%2Fbilligmerker-knuser-premium-biler-i-bremsetest%2F70472977%2F

Have any of the European governments run brake tests?
As I understand it the Jaguar i-Pace has been approved for sale throughout Europe.


When will we be able to say the same for the Tesla mod3?
Terry