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magnamentis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5950 on: October 11, 2018, 01:26:44 PM »
in fact if a car manufacturer let's us know that they will suffer or go broke if emmisions have to be further reduced my reply would be:

- so be it

or

- about time that the dino's die out and smaller and more efficient entities come to take their place

EDIT:

company sizes have to be limited like does personal wealth
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 02:27:48 AM by magnamentis »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5951 on: October 11, 2018, 01:47:22 PM »
magnamentis,

You reflect my thoughts very closely, and you did it without invoking the word “Tesla.”  ;)

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5952 on: October 11, 2018, 01:51:09 PM »
If you are not an EV owner, you may not appreciate the importance of this announcement.  We need to see many more announcements like this.

Chargepoint and EVBox launch partnership to offer roaming between electric car charging networks
Quote
... Between the two of them, they have over 100,000 charge points around the world.

Chargepoint is more popular in North America and EVBox in Europe, but they are both making strides in each other’s markets following recent expansion announcements.

The deal is made possible through the use of the Open Charge Point Interface (OCPI) protocol that they have both adopted.
https://electrek.co/2018/10/09/chargepoint-evbox-partnership-roaming-electric-car-charging-networks/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5953 on: October 11, 2018, 02:58:03 PM »
China’s car market is struggling.

Reverse gear - China car dealers push for tax cut as auto growth stalls
Quote
BEIJING/SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China’s top auto dealers’ association has asked the government to halve taxes on car purchases to revive faltering sales, sources said, as worries grow the country’s auto market could shrink this year for the first time in decades.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-dealers-exclusive/exclusive-reverse-gear-china-car-dealers-push-for-tax-cut-as-auto-growth-stalls-idUSKCN1ML100
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5954 on: October 11, 2018, 07:15:35 PM »
Are CEO Herbert Diess’s recent comments “scare tactics”? — or a huge hint that VW will not survive the transition to EVs?

“The transformation in speed and impact is difficult to manage.[…] Such an industry can crash faster than many believe.”


VW CEO Warns Against Possible Auto Industry Crash Due To EVs
Quote
While Volkswagen has been releasing constant news about how it’s on board with electric vehicles and the automotive group aims to have millions of electric cars on the road by 2025, its CEO Herbert Diess seems to be leading the efforts against the potential emission reduction requirements. In addition, he’s going so far as to try to convince us that the entire automotive industry could crash and 100,000 jobs may be lost.
https://insideevs.com/vw-ceo-evs-crash-auto-industry/amp/

Quote
"industry can crash faster than many believe"
This is a HUGE tell from @Volkswagen CEO:
VW will go bankrupt sooner than many think. …
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1050426817809649665

Previous articles:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg176537.html#msg176537
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NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5955 on: October 11, 2018, 08:00:32 PM »
Quote
Tesla Gigafactory production, per year, is 150GW/h.

The ~66m cars, alone, produced every year, would consume the full output of 90 Gigafactories.
Neil what are you assuming about the average battery size per car?
With 100 kWh/car I am getting 44 gigafactories each making 150 GWh/year to produce 66 million cars annually.

I was reading the world line as the US then extrapolated.  It is actually 81 million not 66.  I should not post when I'm so tired.

The gist of the calculation is this.

Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.  To me if you really insist on replacing all ICE with EV you need to be ready to provide equivalence.  So take a reasonable 500 miles as the target and you get somewhere around 175 odd kw/h as the battery capacity.

Then factor in 81m cars and you get around the 90 odd factories at 150gw.

So not 300 odd world wide.  But, again, after reading the wrong line, we're still in the thousands.  There are tens of millions of heavy vehicles in the world, just for starters and then we have to mitigate the actual power generation.

I may have read the wrong line to put the calculation in, but the statement stands.  Yes, 100, if you are talking world wide light vehicles only.  But Musk does not have that excuse, his company is already building a semi.

Saying that the thousands of tw/h, produced in the world, can be factored in with 100 gigafactories, is like saying we can live on the surface of Mars unaided.  We'd need more than that 100 factories just to deal with cars and heavy vehicles.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5956 on: October 11, 2018, 08:36:30 PM »
Quote
Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.

- No Tesla has a 120kW/h battery.  (Yet! ;) )

- On a full tank of gas, an average ICE vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km).
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/741180.html
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5957 on: October 11, 2018, 09:03:43 PM »
Quote
Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.

- No Tesla has a 120kW/h battery.  (Yet! ;) )

- On a full tank of gas, an average ICE vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km).
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/741180.html

Why exactly do you get everything so wrong? A desire for consistency?

F-150        600 miles
Camry       500 miles
CR-V         450 miles
Accord       550 miles
3 Series     450 miles
Highlander  450 miles
Maxima      450 miles
Silverado    550 miles

Do you just say anything that sounds good for positions you support? Seriously, stop polluting this forum with pure BS.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5958 on: October 12, 2018, 01:55:45 AM »
Ford Mustang 250
Mini Cooper Countryman 280

I can cherry-pick just like you!

I showed my source for the 300 mile average figure.  If you can find a better one, then post it!


« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 02:01:32 AM by Sigmetnow »
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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5959 on: October 12, 2018, 03:22:05 AM »
Ford Mustang 250
Mini Cooper Countryman 280

I can cherry-pick just like you!

I showed my source for the 300 mile average figure.  If you can find a better one, then post it!


VW Passat - 627 miles/tank with gasoline - diesel no longer available :-\
Terry

oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5960 on: October 12, 2018, 03:54:52 AM »
sig your source is very old and I think inaccurate. I couldn't find a better one... but looking at specific cars gives the impression of 400, even 500 miles of range as typical.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5961 on: October 12, 2018, 05:44:21 AM »
Ford Mustang 250
Mini Cooper Countryman 280

I can cherry-pick just like you!

I showed my source for the 300 mile average figure.  If you can find a better one, then post it!

OMFG. What the **** is wrong with you?!? Pure nonsense. PLEASE STOP.


Ford Mustang 250 capacity 15.5-16 economy 21city/32highway = 325-500
Mini Cooper Countryman 280 capacity 16 economy 24city/33highway = 380-520


Top 10 Cars sold in US in 2017...

10. Malibu 500ish
9. Elantra  500ish
8. Cruze    500ish
7. Fusion   450ish
6. Sentra  425ish
5. Altima   550ish
4. Accord  475ish
3. Corolla  425ish
2. Camry  475ish
1. Civic     425ish

(all the trucks are way way more)

I was not cherry picking. You are honestly delusional. I wish you no ill will but stop!!!!! STOP!!! You are polluting this thread with nonsense. Try bocce ball maybe...anything but non-stop posting patently false information on this forum! PLEASE!!!!!
big time oops

Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5962 on: October 12, 2018, 01:42:16 PM »
Norway reportedly has over 30,000 electric vehicle pre-orders, Tesla Model 3 and Audi e-tron to make huge impact

https://electrek.co/2018/10/11/norway-30000-electric-vehicle-pre-orders-audi-e-tron-tesla-model-3/

Quote
Tesla Model 3: 10.000 reservations (estimated)
Audi e-tron quattro: 6300 reservations
Hyundai Kona Electric: deliveries have started but they estimate that 6000 reservations are still on the books
Kia Niro Electric: 5900 reservations
Nissan Leaf (next-gen 2018-2019): deliveries have started but they estimate that 3000 reservations are still on the books
Jaguar I-Pace:3,000 reservations
Porsche Taycan: 2300 reservations
Mercedes-Benz EQC: 2200 reservations
DS Crossback E-Tense: 1350 reservations
BMW iX3: 1,000 reservations, which is the limit that the company allowed

This is happening.  With V2G, solar/wind and energy storage the inflection will only accelerate.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5963 on: October 12, 2018, 04:12:32 PM »
Didn't Tesla take a hit in Norway this year?

I've enclosed the Feb. # that show Tesla unlisted in the top 6 EV's YTD.

https://pushevs.com/2018/02/28/top-6-electric-cars-in-norway-february/

Renault in 6th place had sold but 85 vehicles so Tesla's sales must have been lower.

I'll see what I can dig up, but I'd heard of a $10K fine per vehicle sold. (perhaps it was 10k Eu)
and that sales had dropped through the floor for Tesla as opposed to the EV competition.
Terry
[edit]
For the  2 quarter of 2018 the Model S is in 5th place and the Model X is in 11th;
YTD the Leaf sold >18k while Model S sold <8k

https://cleantechnica.com/files/2018/08/1-Europe-EV-Model-Sales-Top-25.png
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 04:37:05 PM by TerryM »

Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5964 on: October 12, 2018, 04:49:24 PM »
The reservations are for Model 3.
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NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5965 on: October 12, 2018, 08:19:00 PM »
Quote
Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.

- No Tesla has a 120kW/h battery.  (Yet! ;) )

- On a full tank of gas, an average ICE vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km).
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/741180.html


https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/environment#a22

Quote
A22) The UK’s average new car fuel consumption in 2016 was 52.2 miles-per-gallon (mpg) (5.4 litres per 100 km) for petrol vehicles and 62.2 mpg for diesel vehicles (4.5 litres per 100 km).

Average tank size in the UK, for normal cars, is 50l.  My MPV has an 80l tank.

 Ah well I've been reading the future and remembering it as today..  Then again I didn't calculate 600 miles for petrol and 720 for diesel so it evens out.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5966 on: October 12, 2018, 10:34:07 PM »
UK ends PHEV incentive and reduces all-electric vehicle incentive, says it worked too well
Quote
The UK government announced several changes today to its Plug-In Car Grant program. They are essentially ending incentives for plug-in hybrid vehicles and they are reducing the incentive for all-electric vehicles.

In a press release, the government states that the program’s success led them to make the change:
“These changes to financial incentives reflect the ongoing success of the PICGin increasing uptake of electric vehicles, a key part of the government’s Road to Zero strategy. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/10/12/uk-plug-in-grant-ends-phev-incentive-reduces-all-electric-vehicle/



U.S. EV Market Share reaches 3%.
Quote
... Thank you @elonmusk and @Tesla for making EVs sexy and getting the world to finally start changing.
https://twitter.com/felixtremblayto/status/1050713062171262976
Image below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5967 on: October 12, 2018, 10:50:49 PM »
Jaguar execs reportedly pondering transition to fully-electric fleet in 10 years
Quote
JLR (Jaguar Land Rover) executives are reportedly considering the idea of transitioning Jaguar into an all-electric brand within the next 10 years. The bold transition reportedly involves a phase-out scheme of some of the company’s current offerings over the next five to seven years, which will be followed by the introduction of more electric vehicles.

With this strategy in mind, Jaguar is reportedly preparing to replace its XJ saloon with an all-electric sedan within the next two years. Details of the vehicle remain under wraps, though speculations are high that the XJ replacement will be marketed as a direct competitor to the upcoming Porsche Taycan and the best-selling Tesla Model S. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/jaguar-transition-fully-electric-fleet/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5968 on: October 13, 2018, 04:33:23 PM »
“Shared Autonomy”
The car makes suggestions, and asks the driver what to do.
Article, paper and short demonstration videos.

MIT Human-Centered Autonomous Vehicle
Quote
Building effective, enjoyable, and safe autonomous vehicles is a lot harder than has historically been considered. The reason is that, simply put, an autonomous vehicle must interact with human beings. This interaction is not a robotics problem nor a machine learning problem nor a psychology problem nor an economics problem nor a policy problem. It is all of these problems put into one. It challenges our assumptions about the limitations of human beings at their worst and the capabilities of artificial intelligence systems at their best. The following video introduces the Human-Centered Autonomous Vehicle (HCAV) that we use as an illustrative case study of exploring concepts in shared autonomy….
https://hcai.mit.edu/hcav/
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Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5969 on: October 13, 2018, 07:29:50 PM »
The cyborg car. Nice.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5970 on: October 13, 2018, 09:36:29 PM »
Bloomberg writer says Big Oil should be concerned about Amazon getting into the EV-charger installation business — one of the last obstacles to EV ownership.

Background, from September:
Audi working with Amazon to sell electric car chargers with installation as a turn-key solution
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg173357.html#msg173357


Big Oil Should Be Worried About Amazon’s Battery Play
Quote
The last bastion of the fossil fuel industry was just breached.

While you were busy reading Elon Musk’s tweets, Audi AG was unveiling its Tesla challenger, the E-tron. One of the most interesting bits of the glitzy launch concerned simply plugging the thing in: The carmaker, it turns out, has teamed up with Amazon.com Inc. to install home chargers for E-tron buyers.

While Amazon helping to get new plugs put into garages may not scream revolution, it should still worry the likes of Exxon Mobil Corp. The oil industry has long been more concerned with generating supply than encouraging demand—why bother, when drivers had no alternative? The hassle of charging has long been one of the things holding back the electrical vehicle market. Amazon’s entry will make that a whole lot easier, potentially representing a major threat in oil’s biggest market.

The fossil fuel industry should be worried about a company such as Amazon encroaching on its territory. Back in the summer of 2008, three of the world’s five most valuable companies produced oil and gas. Exxon was No. 1. Today, four years after a global collapse in oil prices, Big Tech dominates and Exxon struggles to stay in the top 10.

Amazon momentarily puzzled investors in June 2017 when it announced it would spend $14 billion on the grocery chain Whole Foods; its stock has virtually doubled since. Bubbly this may be, but that’s beside the point: If you’re reading this online, you’re enjoying the legacy of one of the biggest bubbles ever. What matters is that Amazon has taken a toehold in yet two more businesses: energy and transportation. Its shareholders won’t care, but Big Oil should.

● Alexa, Can You Charge My Car?
Speaking at a London conference, Nathaniel Bullard of Bloomberg New Energy Finance listed some ways Amazon might make EV ownership more attractive. What if Alexa could place your Whole Foods order while you were on your way to the store? Or start charging your car when electricity prices are lowest?

● Reined In
Spending on upstream oil and gas development has declined by $308 billion since 2014. Why invest so much in reserves if demand for oil might falter?

● Over the Top
Ten years ago, the phrase “peak oil” referred to supply. Today it’s more often used in the context of peak demand—a much less cheery prospect for the fossil fuel industry.

● Big Oil Meets Big Tech
In the summer of 2008 fossil fuel companies ruled the capital markets. Today they’re lucky if they can still compete with the biggest players, almost all of which serve the digital economy.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-08/big-oil-should-be-worried-about-amazon-s-battery-play
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5971 on: October 13, 2018, 10:14:38 PM »
I'm all for reducing the GHG concentrations, but the obsession with Big Oil is silly. Every industry pollutes a ton. Our current economic paradigm doesn't properly account for pollution...that's the problem. Oil is incredibly energy dense and it is liquid. It's the most useful stuff humanity has ever discovered and investments in batteries do nothing to change that. This good vs evil battle that you believe in is pure delusion.
big time oops

Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5972 on: October 13, 2018, 11:29:59 PM »
Jaguar might pass on gas and become an EV-only brand


https://driving.ca/jaguar/xj/auto-news/news/jaguar-might-pass-on-gas-and-become-an-ev-only-brand

Quote
The company famous for leaking oil is contemplating banishing it from its cars altogether. Jaguar has plans to change every car in its lineup to an EV-only drivetrain within 10 years, kicking gasoline and diesel to the wayside, according to new rumours.

AutoCar reports the news comes amid slow sales numbers of the XJ sedan, and Jaguar’s desire to corner the market on luxury EVs.
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oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5973 on: October 13, 2018, 11:30:16 PM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5974 on: October 13, 2018, 11:32:02 PM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.


Ramen!!
Terry

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5975 on: October 13, 2018, 11:41:38 PM »
It becomes fraud. They are deceiving the world to profit from their product to the harm of everyone including themselves (they think they are not harming themselves lol). That's fraud.

The thing is that this fraud is too big to prosecute, and corrupt governments do not want to prosecute them because they place their personal interests over their sworn duties.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5976 on: October 13, 2018, 11:51:21 PM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.

No other industry operates differently. If you think otherwise, you are naive.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5977 on: October 14, 2018, 12:02:18 AM »
Petroleum is responsible for the most fossil fuel emissions. Reducing oil use is essential to lowering our carbon footprint.
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zizek

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5978 on: October 14, 2018, 12:35:49 AM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.

There is no such thing as "Big Oil". The amount of overlap energy companies have with the rest of our economic system essentially makes the C-level executives immune from climate change crisis. They don't care about "EV disruption" nearly as much as you think. Especially considering how tied energy is with finance, and just how profitable green energy is becoming.

When was the last time you've heard of an oil company threaten their banks to divest from their green investments? And how many directors, vice-presidents, board members have worked with both fossil fuel companies and the bank's energy capital markets (both renewable and fossil fuels)? Go find out for yourself and look at the leadership for any large banks.

It's hard to find evil when the big players - finance & wall street - are playing for both sides.

Oil men will always be profitable. If Fossil fuels prices tanks due to climate change, they'll do what they have always done: bankrupt, leave anybody under the executive level to eat dirt, and take their millions and billions elsewhere. They aren't scared of green disruption. Amazon plug-ins. Electric cars. Wind turbines. Solar panels. They're scared of wealth re-distribution and the guillotine. 


Here's a bonus graphic to illustrate how murky global capitalism has become. you can't fight big oil without fighting an entire system.
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/50-largest-u-s-companies-board-members/

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5979 on: October 14, 2018, 02:32:47 AM »
Petroleum is responsible for the most fossil fuel emissions. Reducing oil use is essential to lowering our carbon footprint.

Duh.

That doesn't make those who sell oil (or those who buy it) part of a Big Oil conspiracy of evil.

Our problems are so so so much more systemic. And that is why switching from GM to Tesla makes effectively no meaningful difference. We need to change the way our societies are structured and our way of life...not just which brand of car we drive.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5980 on: October 14, 2018, 10:12:10 PM »
Reviewing Norway’s amazingly fast transition to electric vehicles:

Plug-In Cars = 60% Of New Car Sales In Norway In September
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/14/plug-in-cars-60-of-new-car-sales-in-norway-in-september/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5981 on: October 15, 2018, 03:54:52 PM »
Porsche Previews Revolutionary Production Facility for All-Electric Taycan
Porsche will use a system of automated guided vehicles similar to what's used in the aerospace industry.
Quote
... The heavy investment in staff and manufacturing equipment is part of Porsche's $7.4 billion investment into electrification. Despite being an astronomically large expenditure, the German luxury sports car maker states that it is still targeting a profit margin of 15 percent across its brand. Profits will be earned by selling digital offerings in addition to its luxury vehicles.

“We predict that over 50 percent of Porsche models delivered from 2025 will be electrified,” said the Deputy Chairman of Porsche's Executive Board, Lutz Meschke. "In addition to efficient processes, the revenue from digital products and services should also increasingly contribute to our economic success."

Production for the 600 horsepower all-electric Taycan is said to begin in 2019 and may lead to disruption of auto sales among other EV manufacturers. The move towards electrification has been enabled by the recognition of Tesla as a threat to the luxury brand's auto sales. Porsche's North America CEO Klaus Zellmer admitted that some of its potential customers were lost because the options that were being sought out by consumers simply didn't exist in the automaker's product line, but with the introduction of the Taycan that could all change.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/24217/porsche-previews-production-plans-for-all-electric-taycan
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Buddy

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5982 on: October 15, 2018, 06:18:11 PM »
Jaguar is Thinking About Phasing Out Internal Combustion Engines in Favor of Becoming an All-EV Brand Within Five Years

https://jalopnik.com/jaguar-is-thinking-about-phasing-out-internal-combustio-1829730935

Quote
According to Autocar, the British marque has already been planning this swap out to take place within the decade—most likely within the next five years. In that time, they’ll be producing fewer and fewer conventional vehicles, instead replacing them with models that run on greener, more sustainable energy.

Who would of "thunk it"?    ;)

Remember when someone said that "the US would sell their LAST ICE ONLY passenger car by a major manufacturer NO LATER THAN THE END OF 2025?  People thought he was NUTS.  OK ..... maybe "he/me" IS NUTS.  But it will be NO SURPISE to me if that 12/31/2015 "deadline" COMES IN SOME MORE. 

And it won't be because of the environment (although it should have been a LONG time ago).  It will be because of cost.  It just won't make ANY SENSE (or CENTS ;)).

Hyundai is coming out with a new EV crossover in early 2019 ..... base price somewhere in the low $30's K (US dollars). At some point people, likely by the early 2020's people will say:

"OK .... I'll stop being stupid.  I'll buy an EV that cost the same OR LESS than an ICE; it costs a lot less to run than an ICE; it costs a lot less to maintain than an ICE; and yes ... it is much quicker than an ICE.   OK ..... I'll take it."

And then they will stop selling black and white TV's ICE vehicles because nobody wants them any more. 



 
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sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5983 on: October 15, 2018, 09:29:20 PM »
Free public transport on the rise:

"You can’t put a price on mobility and social justice"

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/oct/15/i-leave-the-car-at-home-how-free-buses-are-revolutionising-one-french-city

sidd

NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5984 on: October 15, 2018, 09:41:14 PM »
When wondering about why all those companies are starting to invest in EV, it is interesting to look at when certain countries intend to ban fossil fuel vehicles.

The US and Japanese companies, on the other hand, have had to deal with subsidies and not regulation.
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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5985 on: October 16, 2018, 12:28:34 AM »
Free public transport on the rise:

"You can’t put a price on mobility and social justice"

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/oct/15/i-leave-the-car-at-home-how-free-buses-are-revolutionising-one-french-city

sidd


I think you may just have given me a cause!


My community would be greatly enhanced by free bus service & the possibility of free trolley and light rail service to neighboring cities could bring huge benefits.
This is a concept I can support with no reservations.


Thanks so much
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5986 on: October 16, 2018, 01:29:43 AM »
The new Hyundai Kona.  A “normal” car that is all-electric.

“We wanted to maintain a good interior size with cargo and interior space for the passengers. At the same time, our target was to be in the top class in terms of range at 258 miles.”

2019 Hyundai Kona Electric First Drive: The New Normal
Quote
...Hyundai did a lot of research to determine the amount of range that would get average consumers to consider an EV. “Two-hundred miles is very much the tipping point,” he said. “Consumers look at big intervals, and 200 is a magic number. After 300, it doesn’t matter at all. So 250 to 300 miles of range is where everyone is focused.”

In that regard, the Kona EV’s adequate creature comforts, familiar dashboard configurations, and unexceptional external styling matter less than Hyundai using an existing crossover model to push the envelope on range. The Kona Electric deserves an award for the best-ever EV converted from an internal combustion vehicle.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/10/15/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-first-drive-the-new-normal/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5987 on: October 16, 2018, 01:47:51 AM »
Tesla designed its motor and drive-train to last for 1 million miles.  No reason other EV-makers couldn’t do the same — if they wanted.  What happens to the old ICE sales model if their new EVs last four times as long as their ICE cars?

Tesla releases impressive pictures of Model 3 drive unit after test, Musk says they drove 1M miles
https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/
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gerontocrat

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« Reply #5988 on: October 16, 2018, 01:28:33 PM »
The new Hyundai Kona.  A “normal” car that is all-electric.

“We wanted to maintain a good interior size with cargo and interior space for the passengers. At the same time, our target was to be in the top class in terms of range at 258 miles.”

2019 Hyundai Kona Electric First Drive: The New Normal
Quote
...Hyundai did a lot of research to determine the amount of range that would get average consumers to consider an EV. “Two-hundred miles is very much the tipping point,” he said. “Consumers look at big intervals, and 200 is a magic number. After 300, it doesn’t matter at all. So 250 to 300 miles of range is where everyone is focused.”

In that regard, the Kona EV’s adequate creature comforts, familiar dashboard configurations, and unexceptional external styling matter less than Hyundai using an existing crossover model to push the envelope on range. The Kona Electric deserves an award for the best-ever EV converted from an internal combustion vehicle.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/10/15/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-first-drive-the-new-normal/
TESLA had better get the cheapo TESLA 3 in the sale rooms pdq. The Hyundai is but the first of a stream of low priced alternatives that will roll out in the next couple of years.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5989 on: October 16, 2018, 01:35:45 PM »
Tesla designed its motor and drive-train to last for 1 million miles.  No reason other EV-makers couldn’t do the same — if they wanted.  What happens to the old ICE sales model if their new EVs last four times as long as their ICE cars?

Tesla releases impressive pictures of Model 3 drive unit after test, Musk says they drove 1M miles
https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/

Do you think before you regurgitate Muskian claims, or is it just a visceral reflex?

Do you honestly believe they drove that car a million miles?

Some simple math. 60mph x 24 hours = 1440 miles per day

1,000,000 / 1440 = 694 days or about 23 months

Do you think that a Tesla model 3 has been driving non stop for the past two years? Were they performing NASCAR style tire changes? Were they employing the battery swap Musk promised but that doesn't actually exist? Is it odd that this apparent test theoretically began 9 months before model 3s were actually being produced? Were 5 full-time employees used as drivers to achieve feat or was it the FSD tech that Tesla sells but that does not exist? Or is this just another Musk lie?

big time oops

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5990 on: October 16, 2018, 01:42:25 PM »
...
... The Hyundai is but the first of a stream of low priced alternatives that will roll out in the next couple of years.

I honestly hope so!
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GoSouthYoungins

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« Reply #5991 on: October 16, 2018, 01:43:00 PM »
"Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74 percent more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it’s made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls’ findings."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/the-dirt-on-clean-electric-cars
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5992 on: October 16, 2018, 01:48:36 PM »
German carmakers have 50:50 chance of facing Detroit's fate, VW says
Quote
FRANKFURT (Reuters) - German carmakers only have a 50 percent chance of surviving as leading players in the auto industry unless they transform their businesses to meet new regulations and adapt supply chains, Volkswagen's (VOWG_p.DE) chief executive said on Tuesday.

Car manufacturers have complained about new regulations, including bans on older diesel vehicles in German cities and broader EU measures to cut car emissions, saying they will hurt Europe's car industry and cost jobs.  "If you look at the former bastions of the auto industry like Detroit, Oxford-Cowley or Turin, you understand what happens to cities when once-powerful corporations and leading industries falter," CEO Herbert Diess told an auto suppliers' conference in Wolfsburg, VW's manufacturing base.

Germany’s auto industry association VDA has said a ban on combustion engine-powered vehicles in 2030 would threaten more than 600,000 German industrial jobs, of which 436,000 are at car companies and their suppliers.

Tougher rules could push some carmakers out of business due to the pace of reforms required to shift production to electric cars and to tackle new geopolitical threats, said Diess.  "From today's point of view the chances are perhaps 50-50 that the German auto industry will still belong among the global elite in 10 years' time," he said, referring to leading players Volkswagen Group, BMW (BMWG.DE) and Daimler (DAIGn.DE).

European Union lawmakers have agreed to seek a 35 percent cut in car emissions by 2030, a higher level than Germany had sought, after a U.N. report called for dramatic steps to slow global warming.  Germany's BMW, Audi and Mercedes brands command around a 90 percent market share in the premium auto segment, but a push to cut emissions hurts high horsepower vehicles and therefore German brands in particular.  Volkswagen is already struggling to overcome its emissions cheating scandal. Its premium unit Audi was fined 800 million euros ($926 million) on Tuesday for emissions violations.

"We are all used to the fact that we have flourishing industrial metropolises around the central manufacturing plants of German carmakers and their suppliers, places where people like to live and work, but that's not guaranteed for eternity," Diess said. ...
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1MQ0K5
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GoSouthYoungins

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« Reply #5993 on: October 16, 2018, 01:49:27 PM »
TESLA had better get the cheapo TESLA 3 in the sale rooms pdq. The Hyundai is but the first of a stream of low priced alternatives that will roll out in the next couple of years.

So, if they don't make any significant profit selling the $60k version, how are they going to make money selling the $35k version? There are billions in loans coming due as well as constantly mounting legal fees and fines, to say nothing of the capital required to develop already announced projects.

It's really hard to come to any reasonable conclusion other than that the legacy automakers are going to be the ones producing EVs. Elon is to EV as Tom is to FB.  It's probably a good thing, because Tesla's smash and grab (and lie) approach to car manufacturing is rather flammable dangerous.
big time oops

Buddy

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« Reply #5994 on: October 16, 2018, 01:50:45 PM »
Tesla is NEVER going to compete on “the cheap end” for cars.  There will be several car makers that do .... but Tesla won’t be one of them.  I’m sure Tesla’s upcoming small SUV will sell at a premium to the major manufacturers.  The vehicles I’m interested in seeing from Tesla are its trucks.  Both the semi that has already been introduced AND it’s upcoming pickup truck in a couple years.  I expect their pickup truck to be a “game changer”.  Tesla is like Apple, in that Apple also avoids the “inexpensive side” of the product paradigm.

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GoSouthYoungins

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« Reply #5995 on: October 16, 2018, 02:08:36 PM »
Tesla is NEVER going to compete on “the cheap end” for cars.  There will be several car makers that do .... but Tesla won’t be one of them.  I’m sure Tesla’s upcoming small SUV will sell at a premium to the major manufacturers.  The vehicles I’m interested in seeing from Tesla are its trucks.  Both the semi that has already been introduced AND it’s upcoming pickup truck in a couple years.  I expect their pickup truck to be a “game changer”.  Tesla is like Apple, in that Apple also avoids the “inexpensive side” of the product paradigm.

I'm excited to see you have the inside scoop. Please share: where are these introduced/upcoming SUVs, Trucks, and Semis going to be built? And with what money?
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5996 on: October 16, 2018, 02:34:44 PM »
At the link below is an analysis written a few years ago about the obstacles each of the big ICE vehicle manufacturers faces in the transition to EVs.  It’s not pretty.

Quote
... these automakers must amortize these gas car assets over 10 if not 20 years, moving only gradually away from deriving income from gas car tech. Unable to "shift ... quickly", the incumbents’ "competitive response" will be lackluster at best....

http://tesla.dauger.com/disrupts/incumbentsshackles.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5997 on: October 16, 2018, 05:02:49 PM »
Quick Look At New Energy Vehicle Sales In China Through August 2018
https://insideevs.com/new-energy-vehicle-sales-china-cumulative/

Most of the New Energy Vehicles are all-electric
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5998 on: October 16, 2018, 06:29:42 PM »
A more immediate worry for automakers than the transition to EVs is the concern over a “hard Brexit.”

Ford warns against hard Brexit, backs trade deal
Quote
Ford Motor Co. (F, -0.34%) on Tuesday became the latest auto maker to caution against Britain crashing out of the EU without a deal and to voice its support for a frictionless U.K.-EU trade agreement.

"For Ford, a hard Brexit is a red line. It could severely damage the U.K.'s competitiveness and result in a significant threat to much of the auto industry," Group Vice President and President of Europe, Middle East and Africa Steven Armstrong said.

The U.S. car maker, which operates three major manufacturing plants in the U.K., said it would take "whatever action is necessary" to protect its business in the event of a hard Brexit. 

Ford also warned that a deal in the vein of Canada's trade agreement with the EU, which removes duties on many products and services but doesn't remove border controls, would be problematic.  "If this was introduced for all U.K.-EU trade, the level of congestion and blockages at the ports would undermine our just-in-time manufacturing system," the company said.

Germany's Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW.XE) has previously said it will close one of its U.K. factories for at least a month after Brexit day to hedge against a no-deal scenario.

Daimler AG's (DAI.XE) Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche has described a hard Brexit as an issue of great concern for the European economy, while Jaguar Land Rover has already cut production at its Castle Bromwich plant due in part to Brexit.

Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. (7201.TO) has also warned the U.K. government that its plan to pull the country out of the EU could seriously disrupt the Japanese car maker's operations in north-east England.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ford-warns-against-hard-brexit-backs-trade-deal-2018-10-16-114854943
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5999 on: October 16, 2018, 07:16:17 PM »
Nice!

Electric car drivers can now 'roam' in the US and Canada on ChargePoint and FLO charging networks
Quote
A week after announcing a similar deal in Europe, ChargePoint has unveiled a new “roaming partnership” with FLO to allow electric vehicle drivers to use both charging networks across North America with “a seamless charging experience.”.
...
The agreement, which is a first of its kind in North America, is coming into effect today.

ELECTREK’S TAKE

As I commented with the previous agreement, these deals make a ton of sense.

Dealing with multiple accounts between different charging networks is a pain and this should make the process of jumping from one network to another less painful.

Also, ChargePoint and FLO have two of the biggest EV charging networks in North America. It should set an example for other networks who use the Open Charge Point Interface (OCPI) protocol to get on board with roaming partnerships.
https://electrek.co/2018/10/16/electric-car-drivers-roam-us-canada-chargepoint-flo-charging-networks/ 
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