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NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5850 on: October 09, 2018, 07:06:32 PM »
You say you want 475 kW?  No problem!  Right next to the tire fill-up kiosk.  :o

Tritium Brings DC Fast Chargers To Gas Stations In Partnership With Gilbarco Veeder-Root
October 9th, 2018
Quote
DC fast charging hardware manufacturer Tritium is targeting fuel service stations for its Veefil-PK High Power Charging Systems that can crank out power at up to an industry-leading 475 kW.

True.  But you listen to Musk on everything else but not on this one.  Musk is quite clear on this, if you want to charge at over 350kw you need a MUCH larger pack and Tesla has one of the largest and most overengineered packs on the market.

I'm wondering what we're going to charge with them?  Semi's?  But for that we'd need 4 of them per Semi..
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5851 on: October 09, 2018, 08:08:00 PM »
Another article on the Lexus hybrid FUD.
Lexus Works To Promote Horrible Electric Car FUD In Latest Ads
https://insideevs.com/lexus-ev-fud-latest-ads/

After years of denial, it is amazing how quickly luxury car brands realized that without an all-electric option, they can’t compete.

It’s been six years since the launch of the Model S proved the popularity of electric cars.  How long until the mid-size SUV market works the same way?  (The Tesla Model Y should be revealed next March.  Tick-tock!)
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oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5852 on: October 09, 2018, 09:48:04 PM »
Quote
Tesla Gigafactory production, per year, is 150GW/h.

The ~66m cars, alone, produced every year, would consume the full output of 90 Gigafactories.
Neil what are you assuming about the average battery size per car?
With 100 kWh/car I am getting 44 gigafactories each making 150 GWh/year to produce 66 million cars annually.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5853 on: October 10, 2018, 01:38:45 AM »
Not sure this is the proper thread but -

NHTSA rebuffs Tesla for claims that Model 3 is "Safest ever Tested"

https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/tesla-safety-record-analysis/2018/10/09/id/885594/

Apparently the claims for Model X & S are equally bogus.
The test results from Sept 20 that I mentioned yesterday where each model scored 5s was apparently all of the testing that was done. The "Safest ever Tested" & "Lowest Probability of Injury of any Tested Vehicle" reports yesterday by Tesla were simply BS, and the NHTSA has cried foul

Tesla had previously claimed their Model S scored a 5.4 safety rating prompting the NHTSA to bar automotive companies from promoting scores higher than 5.

Terry

oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5854 on: October 10, 2018, 10:57:11 AM »
YMMV, but to me "does not distinguish beyond the star rating" does not equal "bogus" or "simply BS". A+ does not distinguish between 99 and 97, but if I got a 99 I might still tell my friends about it.
In any case, I guess this belongs in the Tesla thread.
Quote
The Model 3 achieved the top rating, five stars, on that ranking along with other vehicles such as the 2018 model Volvo S60, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Volkswagen Jetta and Ford Mustang cars.

"NHTSA does not distinguish safety performance beyond the star rating with five stars being the highest safety rating a vehicle can achieve. Thus, there is no NHTSA ‘safest’ ranking within the five-star category," the agency said.

Tesla (TSLA) on Sunday said in a blog post, "NHTSA’s tests also show (the Model 3) has the lowest probability of injury of all cars the safety agency has ever tested." That claim prompted numerous blogs and commentators to call the Model 3 the "safest ever" vehicle. Tesla said it had engineered the car to be "the safest car ever built."

Tesla (TSLA) said Tuesday its assessment was calculated using publicly available data, taking the weighted average of crash scores to calculate a vehicle safety score and then multiplying it by a baseline injury risk value.

Tesla's analysis also said that its Model S and Model X also had a lower probability of injury than all other vehicles tested by NHTSA.

In November 2013, NHTSA blocked automakers from promoting vehicle safety ratings of more than five stars, three months after Tesla touted the score on its Model S.

Tesla said in August 2013 that the Model S had achieved a score of 5.4 stars, a figure based on Tesla’s independent analysis of NHTSA data. Three months later, NHTSA explicitly barred companies from promoting safety scores higher than five stars.

NHTSA is considering changes to its five-star crash assessment program and said it needs "to be modernized to incentivize the voluntary adoption of safety features." The agency is considering creating safety ratings for areas of vehicle performance not currently rated.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5855 on: October 10, 2018, 05:39:08 PM »
Tesla's deaths per million vehicle years is super super high. Above average and super above luxury car average. But hey, who cares about what actually happens to drivers...Musk says his car score 110%...and that guy never lies.
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oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5856 on: October 10, 2018, 06:12:28 PM »
GSY - if you have a source for this stat please post it in the Tesla thread.

Meanwhile in the US of A, a bill to tax EVs properly and "level the playing field". God forbid taxing ICE pollution to level the playing field.

Quote
The chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee unveiled legislation Tuesday to end the $7,500 tax incentive for electric vehicles.
...
The legislation from Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., would also impose “a federal highway user fee on alternative fuel vehicles,” which would then go into the Highway Trust Fund, according to a committee summary. The fee, based on typical fuel taxes paid for similar gas-powered vehicles, would be collected with the vehicle owner’s federal tax return.
...
“My legislation levels the playing field for all drivers across America.”

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/tax-break-electric-vehicles-crosshairs

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5857 on: October 10, 2018, 07:22:54 PM »
Dare we consider the possibility of these forecasts coming true?

BMW:
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 10/8/18, 10:29 AM
$BMWYY today broke below a critical support level, $30 per share, for the first time in 20 months. I expect the trend to continue, as the company loses significant market share to $TSLA #Model3, with the final blow coming from #ModelY in 2019. BMW will then file for bankruptcy.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1049305783702376448
Graph at the link.

Although it’s obvious BMW is struggling, I did not think things were that dire until I saw the quotes in this next article, which makes it clear the company has no investments in enough EVs to keep the company competitive over the next decade:
   
BMW Expects 85 Percent of its Cars Will Keep Traditional Combustion Engines in 2030
http://www.thedrive.com/news/24142/bmw-expects-85-percent-of-its-cars-will-keep-traditional-combustion-engines-in-2030



About GM and Ford:
Quote
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 10/8/18, 10:24 AM
$GM $F Analysts are rapidly revising their earnings estimates downward. I expect this trend to accelerate in the coming months, and I do not expect the two companies to ever see another quarterly profit beyond 2Q19. Both companies will file for bankruptcy, as $TSLA ramps #ModelY.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1049304432775708672
(Two tables of averages of analysts’ Earnings Per Share estimates, 90 days ago to current, at the link.)

GM and Ford are at risk because they have bet their future on the hefty profits they receive today from SUVs and trucks — however it’s hard to imagine Tesla’s Model Y not disrupting the SUV market even more than the Model 3 is doing today to sedans.  The China market is vital to GM and Ford, but Tesla’s factory there will be churning out vehicles by 2020 (per a Musk statement to analysts) — without the high import tariffs those cars have now.

—-
Unsure about the likelihood of a Model Y ramp?  Remember, the Model 3 will be generating ~$1 billion per quarter once the ramp reaches 10k cars/week.
(Conservatively:  12 weeks x 10,000 cars/week x $50,000 average sale price x 20% average profit = $1,200,000,000). Plus Model S/X, solar, and energy revenue….

Quote
<< Um-K.  F and GM to be forever unprofitable beginning Q319 due to Model Y ramp sometime in 2020...While on topic, where will Model Y be built, how much will new factory/tooling cost and who will pay for it (if @Tesla, source of funding)?
ValueAnalyst (@ValueAnalyst1) 10/8/18, 4:26 PM

-#ModelY reveal will halt ICE demand
-Maybe Sparks, definitely Shanghai
-$2B in MY factory/equipment/tooling
-$1B/Q free cash flow from #Model3
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1049395517262843904
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 04:35:03 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5858 on: October 10, 2018, 07:26:25 PM »
While the NHTSA does not make judgments beyond star ratings, their crash data shows you are least likely to be injured in a Tesla compared to other vehicles they’ve tested.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5859 on: October 10, 2018, 09:17:49 PM »
https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-rate-is-more-than-triple-that-of-luxury-cars-and-likely-even-higher-433670ddde17

Crash rating is different than examination of the cars historical accidents' evidence.  They diverge in Tesla's case.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5860 on: October 10, 2018, 09:18:07 PM »
BMW i3 goes all-electric in Europe due to increased battery range, holds on to gas range extender in North America
Quote
... the automaker believes that the Rex option will remain popular in North America and Japan, where the BMW i3 will still be offered with the range extender option.

At one point, BMW reported that the option represented a majority of their sales.

The German automaker says that the new BMW i3 with the 120 Ah cells will result in a 42.2 kWh battery pack, which should in turn result in about ‘160 miles’ (260 km) of range “in everyday conditions without any loss of brand-based driving pleasure.”

That’s up from 114 miles of EPA estimated range for the current version with 94 Ah cells.
https://electrek.co/2018/10/05/bmw-i3-all-electric-gas-range-extender/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5861 on: October 11, 2018, 01:04:59 PM »
VW CEO uses scare tactic against stricter emission rules despite claiming to be all-in with electric vehicles
Quote
As we reported yesterday, the European Parliament has entered negotiations over the goal to reduce emissions from new cars by 30 to 40 percent by 2030.

The Parliament was originally pushing for 40%, but Germany and its influential auto industry pushed back for just 30% and the European Council came up with a 35% compromise.


VW, who claimed to be on board with the electric revolution, especially since being involved in the Dieselgate scandal, is now fighting back against the new proposal.

CEO Herbert Diess claimed the industry could crash and lose 100,000 jobs (via Süddeutsche Zeitung)
  “The transformation in speed and impact is difficult to manage.[…] Such an industry can crash faster than many believe,”

The new rule would force automakers to produce more electric vehicles in order to reduce their fleet average emission.

By 2025, VW hopes that its electric production plan will lead to 3 million electric vehicles per year between all their brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, etc.).
https://electrek.co/2018/10/11/vw-ceo-scare-tactic-against-stricter-emission-rules-all-in-electric-vehicles/


Europe pushing for 35% CO2 reduction from new cars to accelerate EV adoption, pushbacks from auto industry
https://electrek.co/2018/10/10/europe-co2-reduction-new-cars-ev-adoption-pushbacks/
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magnamentis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5862 on: October 11, 2018, 01:26:44 PM »
in fact if a car manufacturer let's us know that they will suffer or go broke if emmisions have to be further reduced my reply would be:

- so be it

or

- about time that the dino's die out and smaller and more efficient entities come to take their place

EDIT:

company sizes have to be limited like does personal wealth
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 02:27:48 AM by magnamentis »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5863 on: October 11, 2018, 01:47:22 PM »
magnamentis,

You reflect my thoughts very closely, and you did it without invoking the word “Tesla.”  ;)

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5864 on: October 11, 2018, 01:51:09 PM »
If you are not an EV owner, you may not appreciate the importance of this announcement.  We need to see many more announcements like this.

Chargepoint and EVBox launch partnership to offer roaming between electric car charging networks
Quote
... Between the two of them, they have over 100,000 charge points around the world.

Chargepoint is more popular in North America and EVBox in Europe, but they are both making strides in each other’s markets following recent expansion announcements.

The deal is made possible through the use of the Open Charge Point Interface (OCPI) protocol that they have both adopted.
https://electrek.co/2018/10/09/chargepoint-evbox-partnership-roaming-electric-car-charging-networks/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5865 on: October 11, 2018, 02:58:03 PM »
China’s car market is struggling.

Reverse gear - China car dealers push for tax cut as auto growth stalls
Quote
BEIJING/SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China’s top auto dealers’ association has asked the government to halve taxes on car purchases to revive faltering sales, sources said, as worries grow the country’s auto market could shrink this year for the first time in decades.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-dealers-exclusive/exclusive-reverse-gear-china-car-dealers-push-for-tax-cut-as-auto-growth-stalls-idUSKCN1ML100
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5866 on: October 11, 2018, 07:15:35 PM »
Are CEO Herbert Diess’s recent comments “scare tactics”? — or a huge hint that VW will not survive the transition to EVs?

“The transformation in speed and impact is difficult to manage.[…] Such an industry can crash faster than many believe.”


VW CEO Warns Against Possible Auto Industry Crash Due To EVs
Quote
While Volkswagen has been releasing constant news about how it’s on board with electric vehicles and the automotive group aims to have millions of electric cars on the road by 2025, its CEO Herbert Diess seems to be leading the efforts against the potential emission reduction requirements. In addition, he’s going so far as to try to convince us that the entire automotive industry could crash and 100,000 jobs may be lost.
https://insideevs.com/vw-ceo-evs-crash-auto-industry/amp/

Quote
"industry can crash faster than many believe"
This is a HUGE tell from @Volkswagen CEO:
VW will go bankrupt sooner than many think. …
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1050426817809649665

Previous articles:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg176537.html#msg176537
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NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5867 on: October 11, 2018, 08:00:32 PM »
Quote
Tesla Gigafactory production, per year, is 150GW/h.

The ~66m cars, alone, produced every year, would consume the full output of 90 Gigafactories.
Neil what are you assuming about the average battery size per car?
With 100 kWh/car I am getting 44 gigafactories each making 150 GWh/year to produce 66 million cars annually.

I was reading the world line as the US then extrapolated.  It is actually 81 million not 66.  I should not post when I'm so tired.

The gist of the calculation is this.

Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.  To me if you really insist on replacing all ICE with EV you need to be ready to provide equivalence.  So take a reasonable 500 miles as the target and you get somewhere around 175 odd kw/h as the battery capacity.

Then factor in 81m cars and you get around the 90 odd factories at 150gw.

So not 300 odd world wide.  But, again, after reading the wrong line, we're still in the thousands.  There are tens of millions of heavy vehicles in the world, just for starters and then we have to mitigate the actual power generation.

I may have read the wrong line to put the calculation in, but the statement stands.  Yes, 100, if you are talking world wide light vehicles only.  But Musk does not have that excuse, his company is already building a semi.

Saying that the thousands of tw/h, produced in the world, can be factored in with 100 gigafactories, is like saying we can live on the surface of Mars unaided.  We'd need more than that 100 factories just to deal with cars and heavy vehicles.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5868 on: October 11, 2018, 08:36:30 PM »
Quote
Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.

- No Tesla has a 120kW/h battery.  (Yet! ;) )

- On a full tank of gas, an average ICE vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km).
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/741180.html
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5869 on: October 11, 2018, 09:03:43 PM »
Quote
Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.

- No Tesla has a 120kW/h battery.  (Yet! ;) )

- On a full tank of gas, an average ICE vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km).
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/741180.html

Why exactly do you get everything so wrong? A desire for consistency?

F-150        600 miles
Camry       500 miles
CR-V         450 miles
Accord       550 miles
3 Series     450 miles
Highlander  450 miles
Maxima      450 miles
Silverado    550 miles

Do you just say anything that sounds good for positions you support? Seriously, stop polluting this forum with pure BS.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5870 on: October 12, 2018, 01:55:45 AM »
Ford Mustang 250
Mini Cooper Countryman 280

I can cherry-pick just like you!

I showed my source for the 300 mile average figure.  If you can find a better one, then post it!


« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 02:01:32 AM by Sigmetnow »
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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5871 on: October 12, 2018, 03:22:05 AM »
Ford Mustang 250
Mini Cooper Countryman 280

I can cherry-pick just like you!

I showed my source for the 300 mile average figure.  If you can find a better one, then post it!


VW Passat - 627 miles/tank with gasoline - diesel no longer available :-\
Terry

oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5872 on: October 12, 2018, 03:54:52 AM »
sig your source is very old and I think inaccurate. I couldn't find a better one... but looking at specific cars gives the impression of 400, even 500 miles of range as typical.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5873 on: October 12, 2018, 05:44:21 AM »
Ford Mustang 250
Mini Cooper Countryman 280

I can cherry-pick just like you!

I showed my source for the 300 mile average figure.  If you can find a better one, then post it!

OMFG. What the **** is wrong with you?!? Pure nonsense. PLEASE STOP.


Ford Mustang 250 capacity 15.5-16 economy 21city/32highway = 325-500
Mini Cooper Countryman 280 capacity 16 economy 24city/33highway = 380-520


Top 10 Cars sold in US in 2017...

10. Malibu 500ish
9. Elantra  500ish
8. Cruze    500ish
7. Fusion   450ish
6. Sentra  425ish
5. Altima   550ish
4. Accord  475ish
3. Corolla  425ish
2. Camry  475ish
1. Civic     425ish

(all the trucks are way way more)

I was not cherry picking. You are honestly delusional. I wish you no ill will but stop!!!!! STOP!!! You are polluting this thread with nonsense. Try bocce ball maybe...anything but non-stop posting patently false information on this forum! PLEASE!!!!!
big time oops

Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5874 on: October 12, 2018, 01:42:16 PM »
Norway reportedly has over 30,000 electric vehicle pre-orders, Tesla Model 3 and Audi e-tron to make huge impact

https://electrek.co/2018/10/11/norway-30000-electric-vehicle-pre-orders-audi-e-tron-tesla-model-3/

Quote
Tesla Model 3: 10.000 reservations (estimated)
Audi e-tron quattro: 6300 reservations
Hyundai Kona Electric: deliveries have started but they estimate that 6000 reservations are still on the books
Kia Niro Electric: 5900 reservations
Nissan Leaf (next-gen 2018-2019): deliveries have started but they estimate that 3000 reservations are still on the books
Jaguar I-Pace:3,000 reservations
Porsche Taycan: 2300 reservations
Mercedes-Benz EQC: 2200 reservations
DS Crossback E-Tense: 1350 reservations
BMW iX3: 1,000 reservations, which is the limit that the company allowed

This is happening.  With V2G, solar/wind and energy storage the inflection will only accelerate.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5875 on: October 12, 2018, 04:12:32 PM »
Didn't Tesla take a hit in Norway this year?

I've enclosed the Feb. # that show Tesla unlisted in the top 6 EV's YTD.

https://pushevs.com/2018/02/28/top-6-electric-cars-in-norway-february/

Renault in 6th place had sold but 85 vehicles so Tesla's sales must have been lower.

I'll see what I can dig up, but I'd heard of a $10K fine per vehicle sold. (perhaps it was 10k Eu)
and that sales had dropped through the floor for Tesla as opposed to the EV competition.
Terry
[edit]
For the  2 quarter of 2018 the Model S is in 5th place and the Model X is in 11th;
YTD the Leaf sold >18k while Model S sold <8k

https://cleantechnica.com/files/2018/08/1-Europe-EV-Model-Sales-Top-25.png
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 04:37:05 PM by TerryM »

Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5876 on: October 12, 2018, 04:49:24 PM »
The reservations are for Model 3.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

NeilT

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5877 on: October 12, 2018, 08:19:00 PM »
Quote
Tesla has a car which goes 340 miles with 120kw/h.

- No Tesla has a 120kW/h battery.  (Yet! ;) )

- On a full tank of gas, an average ICE vehicle has a range of about 300 miles (483 km).
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/741180.html


https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/environment#a22

Quote
A22) The UK’s average new car fuel consumption in 2016 was 52.2 miles-per-gallon (mpg) (5.4 litres per 100 km) for petrol vehicles and 62.2 mpg for diesel vehicles (4.5 litres per 100 km).

Average tank size in the UK, for normal cars, is 50l.  My MPV has an 80l tank.

 Ah well I've been reading the future and remembering it as today..  Then again I didn't calculate 600 miles for petrol and 720 for diesel so it evens out.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5878 on: October 12, 2018, 10:34:07 PM »
UK ends PHEV incentive and reduces all-electric vehicle incentive, says it worked too well
Quote
The UK government announced several changes today to its Plug-In Car Grant program. They are essentially ending incentives for plug-in hybrid vehicles and they are reducing the incentive for all-electric vehicles.

In a press release, the government states that the program’s success led them to make the change:
“These changes to financial incentives reflect the ongoing success of the PICGin increasing uptake of electric vehicles, a key part of the government’s Road to Zero strategy. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/10/12/uk-plug-in-grant-ends-phev-incentive-reduces-all-electric-vehicle/



U.S. EV Market Share reaches 3%.
Quote
... Thank you @elonmusk and @Tesla for making EVs sexy and getting the world to finally start changing.
https://twitter.com/felixtremblayto/status/1050713062171262976
Image below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5879 on: October 12, 2018, 10:50:49 PM »
Jaguar execs reportedly pondering transition to fully-electric fleet in 10 years
Quote
JLR (Jaguar Land Rover) executives are reportedly considering the idea of transitioning Jaguar into an all-electric brand within the next 10 years. The bold transition reportedly involves a phase-out scheme of some of the company’s current offerings over the next five to seven years, which will be followed by the introduction of more electric vehicles.

With this strategy in mind, Jaguar is reportedly preparing to replace its XJ saloon with an all-electric sedan within the next two years. Details of the vehicle remain under wraps, though speculations are high that the XJ replacement will be marketed as a direct competitor to the upcoming Porsche Taycan and the best-selling Tesla Model S. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/jaguar-transition-fully-electric-fleet/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5880 on: October 13, 2018, 04:33:23 PM »
“Shared Autonomy”
The car makes suggestions, and asks the driver what to do.
Article, paper and short demonstration videos.

MIT Human-Centered Autonomous Vehicle
Quote
Building effective, enjoyable, and safe autonomous vehicles is a lot harder than has historically been considered. The reason is that, simply put, an autonomous vehicle must interact with human beings. This interaction is not a robotics problem nor a machine learning problem nor a psychology problem nor an economics problem nor a policy problem. It is all of these problems put into one. It challenges our assumptions about the limitations of human beings at their worst and the capabilities of artificial intelligence systems at their best. The following video introduces the Human-Centered Autonomous Vehicle (HCAV) that we use as an illustrative case study of exploring concepts in shared autonomy….
https://hcai.mit.edu/hcav/
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Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5881 on: October 13, 2018, 07:29:50 PM »
The cyborg car. Nice.
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5882 on: October 13, 2018, 09:36:29 PM »
Bloomberg writer says Big Oil should be concerned about Amazon getting into the EV-charger installation business — one of the last obstacles to EV ownership.

Background, from September:
Audi working with Amazon to sell electric car chargers with installation as a turn-key solution
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,438.msg173357.html#msg173357


Big Oil Should Be Worried About Amazon’s Battery Play
Quote
The last bastion of the fossil fuel industry was just breached.

While you were busy reading Elon Musk’s tweets, Audi AG was unveiling its Tesla challenger, the E-tron. One of the most interesting bits of the glitzy launch concerned simply plugging the thing in: The carmaker, it turns out, has teamed up with Amazon.com Inc. to install home chargers for E-tron buyers.

While Amazon helping to get new plugs put into garages may not scream revolution, it should still worry the likes of Exxon Mobil Corp. The oil industry has long been more concerned with generating supply than encouraging demand—why bother, when drivers had no alternative? The hassle of charging has long been one of the things holding back the electrical vehicle market. Amazon’s entry will make that a whole lot easier, potentially representing a major threat in oil’s biggest market.

The fossil fuel industry should be worried about a company such as Amazon encroaching on its territory. Back in the summer of 2008, three of the world’s five most valuable companies produced oil and gas. Exxon was No. 1. Today, four years after a global collapse in oil prices, Big Tech dominates and Exxon struggles to stay in the top 10.

Amazon momentarily puzzled investors in June 2017 when it announced it would spend $14 billion on the grocery chain Whole Foods; its stock has virtually doubled since. Bubbly this may be, but that’s beside the point: If you’re reading this online, you’re enjoying the legacy of one of the biggest bubbles ever. What matters is that Amazon has taken a toehold in yet two more businesses: energy and transportation. Its shareholders won’t care, but Big Oil should.

● Alexa, Can You Charge My Car?
Speaking at a London conference, Nathaniel Bullard of Bloomberg New Energy Finance listed some ways Amazon might make EV ownership more attractive. What if Alexa could place your Whole Foods order while you were on your way to the store? Or start charging your car when electricity prices are lowest?

● Reined In
Spending on upstream oil and gas development has declined by $308 billion since 2014. Why invest so much in reserves if demand for oil might falter?

● Over the Top
Ten years ago, the phrase “peak oil” referred to supply. Today it’s more often used in the context of peak demand—a much less cheery prospect for the fossil fuel industry.

● Big Oil Meets Big Tech
In the summer of 2008 fossil fuel companies ruled the capital markets. Today they’re lucky if they can still compete with the biggest players, almost all of which serve the digital economy.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-08/big-oil-should-be-worried-about-amazon-s-battery-play
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5883 on: October 13, 2018, 10:14:38 PM »
I'm all for reducing the GHG concentrations, but the obsession with Big Oil is silly. Every industry pollutes a ton. Our current economic paradigm doesn't properly account for pollution...that's the problem. Oil is incredibly energy dense and it is liquid. It's the most useful stuff humanity has ever discovered and investments in batteries do nothing to change that. This good vs evil battle that you believe in is pure delusion.
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Archimid

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5884 on: October 13, 2018, 11:29:59 PM »
Jaguar might pass on gas and become an EV-only brand


https://driving.ca/jaguar/xj/auto-news/news/jaguar-might-pass-on-gas-and-become-an-ev-only-brand

Quote
The company famous for leaking oil is contemplating banishing it from its cars altogether. Jaguar has plans to change every car in its lineup to an EV-only drivetrain within 10 years, kicking gasoline and diesel to the wayside, according to new rumours.

AutoCar reports the news comes amid slow sales numbers of the XJ sedan, and Jaguar’s desire to corner the market on luxury EVs.
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oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5885 on: October 13, 2018, 11:30:16 PM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.

TerryM

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« Reply #5886 on: October 13, 2018, 11:32:02 PM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.


Ramen!!
Terry

Archimid

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« Reply #5887 on: October 13, 2018, 11:41:38 PM »
It becomes fraud. They are deceiving the world to profit from their product to the harm of everyone including themselves (they think they are not harming themselves lol). That's fraud.

The thing is that this fraud is too big to prosecute, and corrupt governments do not want to prosecute them because they place their personal interests over their sworn duties.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5888 on: October 13, 2018, 11:51:21 PM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.

No other industry operates differently. If you think otherwise, you are naive.
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5889 on: October 14, 2018, 12:02:18 AM »
Petroleum is responsible for the most fossil fuel emissions. Reducing oil use is essential to lowering our carbon footprint.
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zizek

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5890 on: October 14, 2018, 12:35:49 AM »
Every industry pollutes a ton but big oil/gas companies produce a ton of money directly tied to that pollution. And when they use that money to fund politicians who prevent proper accounting for pollution, and to fund fake research casting doubt on the damage of said pollution, it does become a battle of evil against humanity.

There is no such thing as "Big Oil". The amount of overlap energy companies have with the rest of our economic system essentially makes the C-level executives immune from climate change crisis. They don't care about "EV disruption" nearly as much as you think. Especially considering how tied energy is with finance, and just how profitable green energy is becoming.

When was the last time you've heard of an oil company threaten their banks to divest from their green investments? And how many directors, vice-presidents, board members have worked with both fossil fuel companies and the bank's energy capital markets (both renewable and fossil fuels)? Go find out for yourself and look at the leadership for any large banks.

It's hard to find evil when the big players - finance & wall street - are playing for both sides.

Oil men will always be profitable. If Fossil fuels prices tanks due to climate change, they'll do what they have always done: bankrupt, leave anybody under the executive level to eat dirt, and take their millions and billions elsewhere. They aren't scared of green disruption. Amazon plug-ins. Electric cars. Wind turbines. Solar panels. They're scared of wealth re-distribution and the guillotine. 


Here's a bonus graphic to illustrate how murky global capitalism has become. you can't fight big oil without fighting an entire system.
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/50-largest-u-s-companies-board-members/

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5891 on: October 14, 2018, 02:32:47 AM »
Petroleum is responsible for the most fossil fuel emissions. Reducing oil use is essential to lowering our carbon footprint.

Duh.

That doesn't make those who sell oil (or those who buy it) part of a Big Oil conspiracy of evil.

Our problems are so so so much more systemic. And that is why switching from GM to Tesla makes effectively no meaningful difference. We need to change the way our societies are structured and our way of life...not just which brand of car we drive.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5892 on: October 14, 2018, 10:12:10 PM »
Reviewing Norway’s amazingly fast transition to electric vehicles:

Plug-In Cars = 60% Of New Car Sales In Norway In September
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/14/plug-in-cars-60-of-new-car-sales-in-norway-in-september/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5893 on: October 15, 2018, 03:54:52 PM »
Porsche Previews Revolutionary Production Facility for All-Electric Taycan
Porsche will use a system of automated guided vehicles similar to what's used in the aerospace industry.
Quote
... The heavy investment in staff and manufacturing equipment is part of Porsche's $7.4 billion investment into electrification. Despite being an astronomically large expenditure, the German luxury sports car maker states that it is still targeting a profit margin of 15 percent across its brand. Profits will be earned by selling digital offerings in addition to its luxury vehicles.

“We predict that over 50 percent of Porsche models delivered from 2025 will be electrified,” said the Deputy Chairman of Porsche's Executive Board, Lutz Meschke. "In addition to efficient processes, the revenue from digital products and services should also increasingly contribute to our economic success."

Production for the 600 horsepower all-electric Taycan is said to begin in 2019 and may lead to disruption of auto sales among other EV manufacturers. The move towards electrification has been enabled by the recognition of Tesla as a threat to the luxury brand's auto sales. Porsche's North America CEO Klaus Zellmer admitted that some of its potential customers were lost because the options that were being sought out by consumers simply didn't exist in the automaker's product line, but with the introduction of the Taycan that could all change.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/24217/porsche-previews-production-plans-for-all-electric-taycan
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Buddy

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5894 on: October 15, 2018, 06:18:11 PM »
Jaguar is Thinking About Phasing Out Internal Combustion Engines in Favor of Becoming an All-EV Brand Within Five Years

https://jalopnik.com/jaguar-is-thinking-about-phasing-out-internal-combustio-1829730935

Quote
According to Autocar, the British marque has already been planning this swap out to take place within the decade—most likely within the next five years. In that time, they’ll be producing fewer and fewer conventional vehicles, instead replacing them with models that run on greener, more sustainable energy.

Who would of "thunk it"?    ;)

Remember when someone said that "the US would sell their LAST ICE ONLY passenger car by a major manufacturer NO LATER THAN THE END OF 2025?  People thought he was NUTS.  OK ..... maybe "he/me" IS NUTS.  But it will be NO SURPISE to me if that 12/31/2015 "deadline" COMES IN SOME MORE. 

And it won't be because of the environment (although it should have been a LONG time ago).  It will be because of cost.  It just won't make ANY SENSE (or CENTS ;)).

Hyundai is coming out with a new EV crossover in early 2019 ..... base price somewhere in the low $30's K (US dollars). At some point people, likely by the early 2020's people will say:

"OK .... I'll stop being stupid.  I'll buy an EV that cost the same OR LESS than an ICE; it costs a lot less to run than an ICE; it costs a lot less to maintain than an ICE; and yes ... it is much quicker than an ICE.   OK ..... I'll take it."

And then they will stop selling black and white TV's ICE vehicles because nobody wants them any more. 



 
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sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5895 on: October 15, 2018, 09:29:20 PM »
Free public transport on the rise:

"You can’t put a price on mobility and social justice"

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/oct/15/i-leave-the-car-at-home-how-free-buses-are-revolutionising-one-french-city

sidd

NeilT

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« Reply #5896 on: October 15, 2018, 09:41:14 PM »
When wondering about why all those companies are starting to invest in EV, it is interesting to look at when certain countries intend to ban fossil fuel vehicles.

The US and Japanese companies, on the other hand, have had to deal with subsidies and not regulation.
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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5897 on: October 16, 2018, 12:28:34 AM »
Free public transport on the rise:

"You can’t put a price on mobility and social justice"

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/oct/15/i-leave-the-car-at-home-how-free-buses-are-revolutionising-one-french-city

sidd


I think you may just have given me a cause!


My community would be greatly enhanced by free bus service & the possibility of free trolley and light rail service to neighboring cities could bring huge benefits.
This is a concept I can support with no reservations.


Thanks so much
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #5898 on: October 16, 2018, 01:29:43 AM »
The new Hyundai Kona.  A “normal” car that is all-electric.

“We wanted to maintain a good interior size with cargo and interior space for the passengers. At the same time, our target was to be in the top class in terms of range at 258 miles.”

2019 Hyundai Kona Electric First Drive: The New Normal
Quote
...Hyundai did a lot of research to determine the amount of range that would get average consumers to consider an EV. “Two-hundred miles is very much the tipping point,” he said. “Consumers look at big intervals, and 200 is a magic number. After 300, it doesn’t matter at all. So 250 to 300 miles of range is where everyone is focused.”

In that regard, the Kona EV’s adequate creature comforts, familiar dashboard configurations, and unexceptional external styling matter less than Hyundai using an existing crossover model to push the envelope on range. The Kona Electric deserves an award for the best-ever EV converted from an internal combustion vehicle.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/10/15/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-first-drive-the-new-normal/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #5899 on: October 16, 2018, 01:47:51 AM »
Tesla designed its motor and drive-train to last for 1 million miles.  No reason other EV-makers couldn’t do the same — if they wanted.  What happens to the old ICE sales model if their new EVs last four times as long as their ICE cars?

Tesla releases impressive pictures of Model 3 drive unit after test, Musk says they drove 1M miles
https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/
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