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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1000 on: May 13, 2016, 09:20:40 PM »
Terry,
Yes.  But ASLR would freak.  :o  :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1001 on: May 13, 2016, 10:35:27 PM »
Driving Bans Are Spreading As Most Urban Residents Breathe Unhealthy Air
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/05/13/3778200/cities-act-on-air-pollution/
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RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1002 on: May 14, 2016, 12:56:27 AM »
The lowest carbon fuel is diesel electric running biodiesel

You have near zero carbon compared with NG which runs about 70-80% of diesel carbon

I do a lot of low carbon fuel pathway modelling. NG leakage is a hugely serious problem. Methane is a nasty short term GHG as we all know, and production companies do not care about leakage unless it gets to explosive levels. Electric trains running on solar would be idle but not entirely within reach

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1003 on: May 14, 2016, 09:22:14 PM »
This is why Ford refused to let Tesla use the "Model E" name.  ;)


Ford CEO Mark Fields confirms 200-mile electric car coming
Quote
What a difference a week makes.

In late April, Ford's director of electrification programs and engineering, Kevin Layden, said the 100-mile range of the 2017 Ford Focus Electric would suffice for most drivers.

But then on Ford's second-quarter earnings call, CEO Mark Fields announced that the company plans to offer a battery-electric car with 200 miles of range.

Fields was asked specifically whether Ford would join Chevrolet, Tesla, and other makers in offering a battery-electric car with a range of 200 miles or more.

“Clearly that’s something we’re developing for,” Fields said, according to industry trade Automotive News.
...
The future electric car is likely to be dubbed the Ford Model E, and will arrive after a new generation of Ford Focus is launched for 2019.
...
With the 2016 Nissan Leaf offering 107 miles of range, and battery updates coming for the BMW i3 and probably the Volkswagen e-Golf, 100 miles seems to be the new minimum range expectation among mass-priced battery-electric cars.

But with the 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV due to start deliveries at the end of this year, and the Tesla Model 3 supposedly arriving about a year after that—along with a 200-mile option for the second-generation Nissan Leaf in 2018—a range of 100 miles will suddenly be at the low end of the scale.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103673_ford-ceo-mark-fields-confirms-200-mile-electric-car-coming
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1004 on: May 16, 2016, 04:01:52 AM »
Volkswagen in Norway's crosshairs as oil fund preps suit over emissions scandal
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The world's largest sovereign wealth fund is planning to sue Volkswagen in a rare legal action from Norway's $850bn oil fund that underscores investor anger over the emissions scandal at the German carmaker.

The oil fund, the carmaker's fourth-largest shareholder, told the Financial Times that it would take legal action against VW in German courts by seeking to join one of the class-action suits being prepared there.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/15/financial-times-norwayas-850bn-oil-fund-to-sue-volkswagen.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1005 on: May 17, 2016, 03:10:43 AM »
Colorado officially approves $5,000 tax credit for electric vehicles – up to $12,500 with federal incentive
http://electrek.co/2016/05/16/colorado-officially-approves-5000-tax-credit-for-electric-vehicles-up-to-12500-with-federal-incentive/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1006 on: May 18, 2016, 01:35:59 AM »
In Paris, cars compete with other transit modes (and often lose)
Quote
In cities across the world, many governments are promoting electric cars as a way to reduce carbon emissions and improve air quality.  But electric cars aren't the only option for keeping urban dwellers mobile while reducing the carbon footprint of transportation.   Public transit, bikes, scooters, and car-sharing services can all offer alternatives to traditional vehicle ownership.

Paris is one example of a city where all of these alternatives have coalesced into a legitimate competitor to cars, according to Automotive News....  The French capital now has about 450 miles of bike lanes, and pedicabs are a popular option for tourists.  Bike-sharing service Velib now boasts nearly 23,000 bicycles at roughly 1,800 stations, and many Parisians get around on scooters as well.
...
Like other European countries, diesels have been exceedingly popular in France for decades because of their fuel economy.  But greater understanding of the negative impact on air quality from diesel exhaust, especially in millions of older vehicles subject to less stringent emission controls, has created a backlash.  That has included calls by national-government officials to eliminate the tax advantage that diesel fuel currently enjoys compared to gasoline.

MORE: France Expands Electric-Car Bonus To Scrap 10-Year-Old Diesel Cars (Oct 2015)
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103989_in-paris-cars-compete-with-other-transit-modes-and-often-lose
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1007 on: May 18, 2016, 06:56:11 PM »
New battery for Proterra electric bus increases range to 194 miles.

Proterra unveils a massive new 330 kWh battery pack for its Catalyst XR electric bus
Quote
Proterra, a leading manufacturer of all-electric buses, unveiled this week a new battery pack to power its Catalyst XR bus.... The new pack holds 28 percent more energy which adds up to an impressive 330 kWh of energy capacity.

As of March 2016, Proterra had 63 buses on the roads across 10 states. Now the company says that all current Catalyst XR customers will receive a complimentary upgrade with the new battery pack.
...
“By increasing the battery’s energy density, the team was able to utilize the Catalyst vehicle’s purpose-built design and maintain its light weight. The improved Catalyst XR marks another step toward Proterra’s goal of providing a high-performance bus that can serve any transit route in the United States.”
http://electrek.co/2016/05/18/proterra-electric-bus-battery-pack/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1008 on: May 20, 2016, 01:15:05 PM »
Hybrids, but still....

London Black Cabs Raise $400 Million for Taxi Fleets - Bloomberg
Quote
Just days after London’s new mayor revealed plans to clamp down on the city’s toxic smog, the Chinese owner of the London Taxi Co. raised $400 million for a project to electrify its fleet of iconic black cabs.

Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., owner of the company that makes London’s iconic black cabs, secured $400 million through a green bond sale. The proceeds will finance the development of the TX5, a hybrid battery-powered version of the classic 1958 FX4, unveiled in October during a state visit to Britain by Chinese President Xi Jinping.
...
A growing number of investors are seeking to place money into green bonds that fund projects that promise to accelerate the shift away from polluting energy and transport fuels to renewable and clean technology. Almost $56 billion of green bonds may be issued in 2016, topping last year’s record of $46 billion, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

Geely’s green bond was oversubscribed by close to 6 times, according to Angie Tang, a Hong Kong-based spokeswoman at Barclays. The company has no plans to issue another in the foreseeable future, Li said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-19/london-black-cabs-raise-400-million-to-electrify-taxi-fleets
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1009 on: May 21, 2016, 08:45:56 PM »
Are potential hybrid buyers buying gas cars instead? -- or are they waiting for a pure battery-electric vehicle (BEV)?

Toyota Celebrates 9 Million Hybrids Sold, as Hybrid Sales Continue to Decline
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/05/toyota-cheers-9-million-hybrids-sold-hybrid-sales-continue-decline/
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ghoti

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1010 on: May 21, 2016, 09:01:42 PM »
In 2012 I replaced my 15 year old nearly dead car. I really wanted either an electric or at least a plug in hybrid. Test drove the iMiev but it seemed to flimsy for the car to last through enough winters here to outlast the battery in it. Prius plug in wasn't sold in Canada and I was unimpressed with the Ford and GM plug in hybrids. So I settled on a Prius C to hold me until EVs really hit the market.

They still aren't really an option as a single car here yet. So I'm in the camp still holding off buying anything until an affordable EV we can use as our only car is available. I'm hoping things take off soon.

My sister just bought a Leaf as a second car and it is great!

J Cartmill

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1011 on: May 21, 2016, 09:42:26 PM »
Stayed at a Marriott on Long Island  this week and they had Zenith Motors all electric shuttle buses.
http://www.zenith-motors.com/.
All of the New Jersey turnpike rest areas also had Tesla charging stations.
 

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1012 on: May 22, 2016, 02:56:14 PM »
Opening next month. 
Next, add a Hyperloop?   ;D

Switzerland's Gotthard Train Tunnel Will Be World's Longest, Deepest
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/switzerland-s-gotthard-train-tunnel-will-be-world-s-longest-n576096
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1013 on: May 22, 2016, 03:54:08 PM »
Nissan claims the world’s largest electric taxi fleet deal with 110 new LEAF 30 kWh in Madrid
Quote
Today, Nissan announced a deal to provide 110 Nissan LEAFs with the new 30 kWh battery pack to La Ciudad del Taxi, a Madrid-based taxi company. The automaker is calling the transaction “the world’s largest 100 percent electric taxi fleet deal”.

The new 30 kWh battery pack option for the 2016 models gets 107 EPA-rated miles on a single charge.

It looks like Nissan is referring to a single purchase of an electric taxi fleet since other cities and taxi companies have growing all-electric fleets like Schiphol Airport’s 167 Tesla Model S taxis in Amsterdam, or Montreal’s growing fleet of Soul EV and Tesla Model S via Taxelco.
http://electrek.co/2016/05/19/nissan-electric-taxi-fleet-110-leaf-madrid/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1014 on: May 23, 2016, 03:59:13 PM »
The 2017 VW e-Golf will have about 125 miles (EPA-rated) range.

http://electrek.co/2016/05/23/2017-vw-e-golf-186-miles-range/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1015 on: May 23, 2016, 05:02:12 PM »
Germany to Italy: We see a problem with Fiat emissions you seem to have missed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-23/fiat-chrysler-slumps-amid-fight-with-germany-over-car-emissions
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1016 on: May 24, 2016, 05:21:45 PM »
Meet Proterra, The Tesla Of Buses
Quote
Popple is focused on electrifying the transit market, which he expects “will be 100 percent electric” in a decade or so. If Popple’s vision for electrifying buses sounds as ambitious as Elon Musk’s is for cars, perhaps that’s because he was an early employee of Tesla and served as Senior Director of Finance at the company. Like Tesla, Proterra is not putting new batteries into an old vehicle design. It has redesigned the bus from the ground up to optimize it for an all-electric drive with fast-charging capabilities.
...
Today, with batteries in the $300/kwh range, Proterra can offer private operators a deal where they buy the bus and lease the battery for the same upfront costs as the diesel alternative, but with guaranteed monthly savings. That is very similar to the kind of lease deal for solar power that proved game-changing several years ago. Significantly, because the technology is so well-demonstrated in the marketplace, Proterra can actually get third-party private financing so that it can get paid the full cost of the bus upfront.
...
Proterra can give its bus an extra two or three hours of drive time in a matter of minutes with its on-route charging system. A key enabling feature is the ability to recover as much as 92 percent of regenerative breaking energy, which allows each bus to go a lot further on each charge. Proterra has demonstrated its buses can travel more than 700 miles in 24 hours using such a system.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2016/05/24/3778463/proterra-tesla-electric-buses/
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timallard

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1017 on: May 24, 2016, 06:22:15 PM »
Locally Produced Transportation Biofuels: Biodiesel from Sewage Effluent.

First designed at home-farm-ranch scale a photo-bioreactor cube 1/2m on a side full of glass plates with light, air, temp control that stack to conserve heat takes 4-6 units per adult to handle capacity. Algae take 2.5-days to clean water with these growing is 24x7 it scales to big city.

Test case Phoenix, AZ, 10M-gallons/day of secondary effluent normally the treatment plant uses floccing chemicals to remove the dissolved solids, aka algae food as treatment plants are there to prevent algae blooms, eh?

This is a lot of nutrients worth about 2-gallons/person/day on the system for Phoenix some 3M-gallons/day of biodiesel at one of three plants in the basin 9M-gal/day.

For atmospherics this removes CO2 adds O2 and the reverse when burned low in the atmosphere and on a continuing roll-over so should slow down migration of the gases to the troposphere where they do the damage.

Soot is the biggie to remove to scale, consider using a low-power, high-frequency plasma for that by mfg's.

The biodiesel industry is robust yet lacks an outlet to transportation being mainly small operators so no gas-stations, they usually have pumps around $2/gal at the plant, most of the biodiesel used for home heating oils; about 1/3 of producers use wastewater for a feedstock.

Consider running any IC-engine this way for the zillions of them, and for much of the world a heating & cooking oil and because algae clean so well easy to fully purify and recycle the water.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 06:28:42 PM by timallard »
-tom

RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1018 on: May 24, 2016, 09:25:25 PM »
Locally Produced Transportation Biofuels: Biodiesel from Sewage Effluent.

First designed at home-farm-ranch scale a photo-bioreactor cube 1/2m on a side full of glass plates with light, air, temp control that stack to conserve heat takes 4-6 units per adult to handle capacity. Algae take 2.5-days to clean water with these growing is 24x7 it scales to big city.

Test case Phoenix, AZ, 10M-gallons/day of secondary effluent normally the treatment plant uses floccing chemicals to remove the dissolved solids, aka algae food as treatment plants are there to prevent algae blooms, eh?

This is a lot of nutrients worth about 2-gallons/person/day on the system for Phoenix some 3M-gallons/day of biodiesel at one of three plants in the basin 9M-gal/day.

For atmospherics this removes CO2 adds O2 and the reverse when burned low in the atmosphere and on a continuing roll-over so should slow down migration of the gases to the troposphere where they do the damage.

Soot is the biggie to remove to scale, consider using a low-power, high-frequency plasma for that by mfg's.

The biodiesel industry is robust yet lacks an outlet to transportation being mainly small operators so no gas-stations, they usually have pumps around $2/gal at the plant, most of the biodiesel used for home heating oils; about 1/3 of producers use wastewater for a feedstock.

Consider running any IC-engine this way for the zillions of them, and for much of the world a heating & cooking oil and because algae clean so well easy to fully purify and recycle the water.

I don't understand this: So they are making biodiesel from waster by growing algae? The math simply does not add up. It's 125 lt of volume. the algae does not live typically past 1%, so you are looking at 1.25 liters of algae per 2.5 days. Extracting the oil is probably going to require a hand press, and you will get maybe 20% of that mass as oil. That's going to be 0.25 liters of oil every 2.5 days, so 0.1 liters. That has to be converted to biodiesel, requiring collection, Every year you can make perhaps 35 liters of fuel, if there are no other loses in the system. Sorry for the back of the envelope math.. I am using 1g/cm3 for water/oil mass. Oil is typically 0.85 g/cm3.

Solyazme are the most advanced of trying to make fuel from algea, and they have concluded that it's best to have a main product (such as proteins) rather than grow for food Their stock price is a good indicator of their success.

The comment on biodiesel is actually completely wrong. The biodiesel market is huge and is LARGELY used for transportation. ADM is the largest in America, with 450m gallons or so of capacity. Note also that the outlet is in diesel wholesale rack which is often blended at 5% with biodiesel. Pretty much every gallon of diesel fuel bought in California has been blended with biodiesel. The total production in the US is 2 billion gallons or so, with 3.5 billion gallons of total capacity. Biodiesel is small compared to the petroleum industry, but the industry itself has close to 8b in gross revenue. Only a small fraction goes to heating oil as you cannot claim RIN or LCFS credits if it does. You can claim a D5 RIN for home heating but you have to jump through hoops with the EPA to make sure you are auditable.

SOOT is not an issue with burning biodiesel, it actually reduces PM emissions over ULSD. As it is burnt as transportation fuel it is typically passed through a DPF before release, to reduce particle emissions to a minimum.

timallard

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1019 on: May 24, 2016, 11:53:20 PM »
Locally Produced Transportation Biofuels: Biodiesel from Sewage Effluent.

First designed at home-farm-ranch scale a photo-bioreactor cube 1/2m on a side full of glass plates with light, air, temp control that stack to conserve heat takes 4-6 units per adult to handle capacity. Algae take 2.5-days to clean water with these growing is 24x7 it scales to big city.

Test case Phoenix, AZ, 10M-gallons/day of secondary effluent normally the treatment plant uses floccing chemicals to remove the dissolved solids, aka algae food as treatment plants are there to prevent algae blooms, eh?

This is a lot of nutrients worth about 2-gallons/person/day on the system for Phoenix some 3M-gallons/day of biodiesel at one of three plants in the basin 9M-gal/day.

For atmospherics this removes CO2 adds O2 and the reverse when burned low in the atmosphere and on a continuing roll-over so should slow down migration of the gases to the troposphere where they do the damage.

Soot is the biggie to remove to scale, consider using a low-power, high-frequency plasma for that by mfg's.

The biodiesel industry is robust yet lacks an outlet to transportation being mainly small operators so no gas-stations, they usually have pumps around $2/gal at the plant, most of the biodiesel used for home heating oils; about 1/3 of producers use wastewater for a feedstock.

Consider running any IC-engine this way for the zillions of them, and for much of the world a heating & cooking oil and because algae clean so well easy to fully purify and recycle the water.

I don't understand this: So they are making biodiesel from waster by growing algae? The math simply does not add up. It's 125 lt of volume. the algae does not live typically past 1%, so you are looking at 1.25 liters of algae per 2.5 days. Extracting the oil is probably going to require a hand press, and you will get maybe 20% of that mass as oil. That's going to be 0.25 liters of oil every 2.5 days, so 0.1 liters. That has to be converted to biodiesel, requiring collection, Every year you can make perhaps 35 liters of fuel, if there are no other loses in the system. Sorry for the back of the envelope math.. I am using 1g/cm3 for water/oil mass. Oil is typically 0.85 g/cm3.

Solyazme are the most advanced of trying to make fuel from algea, and they have concluded that it's best to have a main product (such as proteins) rather than grow for food Their stock price is a good indicator of their success.

The comment on biodiesel is actually completely wrong. The biodiesel market is huge and is LARGELY used for transportation. ADM is the largest in America, with 450m gallons or so of capacity. Note also that the outlet is in diesel wholesale rack which is often blended at 5% with biodiesel. Pretty much every gallon of diesel fuel bought in California has been blended with biodiesel. The total production in the US is 2 billion gallons or so, with 3.5 billion gallons of total capacity. Biodiesel is small compared to the petroleum industry, but the industry itself has close to 8b in gross revenue. Only a small fraction goes to heating oil as you cannot claim RIN or LCFS credits if it does. You can claim a D5 RIN for home heating but you have to jump through hoops with the EPA to make sure you are auditable.

SOOT is not an issue with burning biodiesel, it actually reduces PM emissions over ULSD. As it is burnt as transportation fuel it is typically passed through a DPF before release, to reduce particle emissions to a minimum.
RE: "So they are making biodiesel from waster by growing algae? "; Yes for decades from wastewater effluent solids removed.

RE: Grow-rates; my figures are based upon lab work & the ASU library that put the first commercial jet on biodiesel into the air, most growth data is actually from CO2 sequestration by the coal companies since the late 60's I had to interpolate, prior to WW2 50% oil species were hybridized.

The largest influence on growth-rate is distance from the lighting source not nutrients the reason for the glass plates which provide light equal to the top 1/4" of a pond, which squeegee well during harvest.

A main issue with me is to fully recycle the water, done at Lake Tahoe since the late 70's using algae makes it cheaper by having a revenue stream and an alternative to chemical precipitation of  dissolved solids.

Solyazme use bioreactors, just huge ones and most are sushine growing not illuminated for 24x7 growing mainly in big tubes and the send cleaners down them. Harvesting was once the greatest challenge not growing now EMF is used to break apart the cell walls, this technique used by OriginOil, they can purify fracking wastewater with their system the only one with a production prototype.

Also pretty certain they do a lot of volume in refined used oils as well via subsidiaries as that's where most volume is coming from afaik.

These are expensive, at a sewage treatment plant the feedstock comes at you at 1000-gallons/hour from existing infrastructure & these units plug into that system by simply valving the effluent to the racks, this give emergency capacity when someone flushes a meth lab before they have to release it.

Keeping that kind of inflow kills the biology and all sewage plants use natural bacteria to break down wastes this helps operators decide to try it, nobody can afford to build tanks just for that.

RE: ". The biodiesel market is huge and is LARGELY used for transportation. ADM is the largest in America, with 450m gallons or so of capacity."

Forgive the confusion they don't use wastewater as the feedstock for nearly all of that volume I'm only referring to companies, usually small operators that do. Afaik a first airline using ONLY biodiesel has a good enough supply-chain to fly, I wouldn't call that being used "largely for transportation" yet.

If you go to sources they list "alternative" for wastewater as a feedstock, most are reprocessing used oils from food crops so not a "green" feedstock although they call it that, worthy of doing regardless just pointing out a big difference to algae growers and where most volume right now comes from.

So in 10-million gallons of effluent it's half in weight of dissolved solids, over 20,000-tons per day if you had to buy it as fertilizer at $400/ton that's a cool $8-million a day saved over being a 2nd party to get that many nutrient to grow with.

Nobody but treatment plants can afford it, the small timers using it mainly are helping treatment plants not have to add capacity and avoid using farmer's fields which is becoming restricted.

Next is to put the concept into a global perspective, most people will use the biodiesel for cooking and home heating, most people don't own a bicycle on the planet.

All cities have trouble processing their sewage and it's expensive, this uses a non-food feedstock to be a primary producer of biodiesel that creates a revenue-stream to pay for tertiary purification and all water is recycled, also something a lot of cities deal with.

Therefore, this isn't simply a way to make biofuel, it's a way to turn sewage treatment into a large asset instead of an expense, recycling a lot of water, producing a transportation, heating and cooking biofuel.

Mainly, I don't see where you address the whole issue of sewage-water-biofuel as integrated and ready-to-go just needing awareness & education.

And finally, my units are made for homes to allow people to DIY biodiesel from their own waste cutting out the fuel companies entirely; for a dairy farm it'll run the whole operation on wash-down with few solids to deal with a consistent input an example of distributing the system at that scale.
-tom

sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1020 on: May 25, 2016, 06:03:01 AM »
Re: biodiesel feedstock USA

EPA figures for feb 2016:

105 million gallons biodiesel produced

fresh soy oil : 51%
yellow grease (includes used cooking oil): 14%
distillers orn oil (most from corn to ethanol production) : 11%
white grease: 7%
fresh canola oil : 6%
Tallow: 3%

etc.

RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1021 on: May 25, 2016, 06:45:02 AM »
Re: biodiesel feedstock USA

EPA figures for feb 2016:

105 million gallons biodiesel produced

fresh soy oil : 51%
yellow grease (includes used cooking oil): 14%
distillers orn oil (most from corn to ethanol production) : 11%
white grease: 7%
fresh canola oil : 6%
Tallow: 3%

etc.

Sounds about right.

Biodiesel is NOT used as a Jet fuel. It is regarded as a pollutant in Jet. I sit on the ASTM committee that just (last year) increased the allowable ppm of biodiesel in Jet from 10ppm. It was consider the cause of an airline crash because of its poor low temperature properties. We wanted to increase the allowable PPM because of pipeline issues as the same pipelines are used to move diesel blended with biodiesel and Jet. It's not cost effective to flush the pipeline down to 10ppm FAME.

You are probably thinking of renewable Jet fuel, that is being made by a few companies from waste fats, and a couple of headline grabbing algal oil companies. Renewable Jet from fat is far cheaper to produce than that from algal oils, and the latter is at least 10 years out from commercialization, and probably unlikely to happen. There is MUCH better use for biodigesting waste to make RNG.

There is no real commercial incentives to produce renewable jet as the oil companies like a outlet for their high sulphur fuels, their lobbyist are very well funded, and its extraordinarily hard to pass ISO regulations as each country has one vote. That's why marine fuels are so damn polluting. Its FAR easier to regulate a transportation fuel in a country or state than internationally.

timallard

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« Reply #1022 on: May 25, 2016, 05:37:29 PM »

Re: biodiesel feedstock USA

EPA figures for feb 2016:

105 million gallons biodiesel produced

fresh soy oil : 51%
yellow grease (includes used cooking oil): 14%
distillers orn oil (most from corn to ethanol production) : 11%
white grease: 7%
fresh canola oil : 6%
Tallow: 3%

etc.


Sounds about right.

Biodiesel is NOT used as a Jet fuel. It is regarded as a pollutant in Jet. I sit on the ASTM committee that just (last year) increased the allowable ppm of biodiesel in Jet from 10ppm. <snip>

A Washington Post article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/03/11/united-airlines-is-flying-on-biofuels-heres-why-thats-a-really-big-deal/

The airline industry carries the greatest onus of any on direct infusion of greenhouse gases into the stratosphere-troposphere versus ground sources which get reduced somewhat in their migration there.

Many within it are very concerned so there is a push to use aviation quality biodiesel, I never stated that angle would be as easy as producing ground transportation fuels which for most engines don't even need the glycerol removed.

Consider three grades at the pumps one for high-tech it's like aviation fuel the rest are cheaper.

Recall this is to allow a person living at home to produce a biofuel from their own waste using a system that recycles the water.

So I don't see the technical difficulties being worked on for aviation by DARPA's new raceway tanks to develop aviation fuel & the influence of the airlines stopping, so, we can assume with time they will solve listed negatives on those issues.

The larger issue are all the IC-engines on the planet that will not stop being used to give them a biofuel and for that wastewater as the feedstock is the best use of that in that using algae as a non-food feedstock from it closes the use-recycle circle at the individual level no need for a centralized system for most people.

This is not desired by the oil companies, they had their chance to switch in the late 70's and chose to not, the reason we are at 3-ppm/year and will hit 600-ppm before anybody can stop it, it's only business-as-usual, worst-case scenario.

What else does? It must be sustainable did you look at the list of where most volume comes from? How many are food crop sources, eh?

Those are NOT sustainable having to use land, bets fertilizers & pesticides and needs rain or irrigation versus algae grown from wastewater on a city level coming at you in a pipe one only needs to grow algae, apparently that's too hard.

Therefore, get into algae as water cleaners, what else purifies water and gives you a biofuel?

It's the future, all those non-sustainable feedstocks are easy to create a supply-chain for and that's why they are used, the actual biodiesel producers grow algae, whoever processes those "feedstocks" are NOT PRODUCERS, they are REFINERS.

As I stated most actual producers sell their product as home heating oil directly to users locally to stay in business, held away from transportation by being small operators without gas-stations nationwide, it has only to do with monopolistic practices, eh?

-tom

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« Reply #1023 on: May 25, 2016, 09:34:26 PM »
1) the algal biodiesel i have experience with is hi sulfur, needs sulfur removed.  One agal biodiesel manufacturer i am familiar with blends the lipids directly into feedtock for a  petro refinery (this manufacture is sometimes called "green diesel") which is equipped to remove the sulfur.

2)Most biodiesel produced in the USA is blended into road fuel, not heating oil.

3)amounts of biodiesel used in aviation fuel is tiny compared to road use.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1024 on: May 25, 2016, 11:13:21 PM »
Chile:  Santiago’s subway system will soon be powered mostly by solar and wind energy
Quote
Metro de Santiago said in a statement (link in Spanish) that it had signed two agreements, one with a solar-energy provider, another with a wind-power company. The solar plant will supply 42% of the subway system’s energy needs, the wind project 18%.

The solar plant will be built by SunPower, based in San Jose, California and majority owned by the French oil company Total. The company will begin construction of the El Pelícano Solar Project this year, with expected operation by the end of 2017. According to statement from SunPower, the metro system will become the first in the world to run mostly on solar energy.
http://qz.com/691078/santiagos-subway-system-will-soon-be-powered-mostly-by-solar-and-wind-energy/
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RoxTheGeologist

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« Reply #1025 on: May 25, 2016, 11:45:25 PM »
1) the algal biodiesel i have experience with is hi sulfur, needs sulfur removed.  One agal biodiesel manufacturer i am familiar with blends the lipids directly into feedtock for a  petro refinery (this manufacture is sometimes called "green diesel") which is equipped to remove the sulfur.

2)Most biodiesel produced in the USA is blended into road fuel, not heating oil.

3)amounts of biodiesel used in aviation fuel is tiny compared to road use.

Agreed on 1 and 2. There is a nomenclature issue with biodiesel though, it's being confused with renewable diesel/Jet; Two very different beasts.

Biodiesel is not used in aviation. Renewable jet fuel is. Biodiesel contains fatty acid methyl esters (FAME) and the ASTM spec for Jet fuel only allows <70ppm FAME in aviation fuel (iirc). The number of companies producing renewable Jet fuel is tiny because it doesn't get the >$3.00 per gallon of credits that producing renewable diesel substitutes gets.

Renewable jet is produced by companies (e.g. Altair) that hydro-treat fatty acids to remove the caroboxylate group. If they left it at that the hydrogenated fuel would have a terrible cloud point (look at hexadecane), so there is a isomerisation step to produce branched hydrocarbons, and reduce the cloud to around -30°C.

sidd

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« Reply #1026 on: May 26, 2016, 01:02:16 AM »
Thanx for detail on hydro treatment and isomerization. I am familiar with cloud point issues, but i see that major engine manufacturers are on track for 20% (B20) FAME blend. Agreed that jetfuel is a different beast entirely.

The subsidies for biodiesel depend on where you are, and the manufacture process. The fed tax break is a 1.00 US$ a gallon, RIN resale is running at 0.80US$ and then out west the California LFCS adds another buck i think, but that number jumps around and is not available elsewhere.

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« Reply #1027 on: May 26, 2016, 01:49:46 AM »
1) the algal biodiesel i have experience with is hi sulfur, needs sulfur removed.  One agal biodiesel manufacturer i am familiar with blends the lipids directly into feedtock for a  petro refinery (this manufacture is sometimes called "green diesel") which is equipped to remove the sulfur.

2)Most biodiesel produced in the USA is blended into road fuel, not heating oil.

3)amounts of biodiesel used in aviation fuel is tiny compared to road use.

Agreed on 1 and 2. There is a nomenclature issue with biodiesel though, it's being confused with renewable diesel/Jet; Two very different beasts.

Biodiesel is not used in aviation.  <snipt>

I'll just say the ice has been broken on all-algae biodiesel aviation fuel and that's my point, it's on the way now: http://www.diamondaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/IW_ILA_Biofuel_eng.pdf

For home heating oils this a recent move to 20% mix so it's also being moved toward pure algae: http://biodiesel.org/news/news-display/2014/12/15/astm-vote-opens-door-for-biodiesel-innovation-in-heating-oil.

The main reason is this and why to consider that there's no reason to use arable land for biodiesel when we can grow it from a truly renewable resource, wastewater, then beyond that purify the water:

"Algae are a logical source from which to make biodiesel, as the oil found inside algal cells is similar to other vegetable oils like rapeseed, soy, and canola, and can easily be transformed into biodiesel."; http://allaboutalgae.com/biodiesel/
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 02:00:18 AM by timallard »
-tom

RoxTheGeologist

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« Reply #1028 on: May 26, 2016, 05:06:49 AM »
1) the algal biodiesel i have experience with is hi sulfur, needs sulfur removed.  One agal biodiesel manufacturer i am familiar with blends the lipids directly into feedtock for a  petro refinery (this manufacture is sometimes called "green diesel") which is equipped to remove the sulfur.

2)Most biodiesel produced in the USA is blended into road fuel, not heating oil.

3)amounts of biodiesel used in aviation fuel is tiny compared to road use.

Agreed on 1 and 2. There is a nomenclature issue with biodiesel though, it's being confused with renewable diesel/Jet; Two very different beasts.

Biodiesel is not used in aviation.  <snipt>

I'll just say the ice has been broken on all-algae biodiesel aviation fuel and that's my point, it's on the way now: http://www.diamondaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/IW_ILA_Biofuel_eng.pdf

For home heating oils this a recent move to 20% mix so it's also being moved toward pure algae: http://biodiesel.org/news/news-display/2014/12/15/astm-vote-opens-door-for-biodiesel-innovation-in-heating-oil.

The main reason is this and why to consider that there's no reason to use arable land for biodiesel when we can grow it from a truly renewable resource, wastewater, then beyond that purify the water:

"Algae are a logical source from which to make biodiesel, as the oil found inside algal cells is similar to other vegetable oils like rapeseed, soy, and canola, and can easily be transformed into biodiesel."; http://allaboutalgae.com/biodiesel/

Biodiesel is not used in aviation. Biofuel is. Please read my explanation above for why that is.

On the change to 20% biodiesel in heating oil. Biodiesel used in heating is made largely from Soy for it's cold flow properties. It's not made from algea oil.

There are far better alternatives to displacing food crops as a source of oil, and that is reflected in the Carbon credits you can get when there is no ILUC carbon cost. (Indirect Land Use Change). I do hope someone comes up with a viable way to make algal blooms into fuel, however, as it stands, it is just a rather wet source of carbon. Pyrolosis of woody waste is perhaps a better way to go.


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« Reply #1029 on: May 26, 2016, 05:23:48 AM »
One thing no one mentions (an this is common to both algal production and enzymatic bio ethanol production) is downtime on algal ponds and enzyme vats. Briefly, the biochemistry goes out of control, often due to opportunistic invasions of unwanted organisms from the environment, since environmental isolation requires pharma grade facilities or better, which are very expensive for the required production volumes. (Biomed researchers might know this as a "library crash")

Then you wind up with large stinking pools of the wrong kinda algae or yeast, needing stripdown and bleaching. No fun, very costly.

sidd

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« Reply #1030 on: May 26, 2016, 05:37:39 AM »
Couple more points:

1) the problem of stratospheric water and N-oxide injection from airplanes does not go away if you use renewable diesel, but such use does decrease fossil carbon into the atmosphere.

2) I do not agree with using fresh veg oil for biodiesel, all those acres of soy and canola might be better off in pasture or solar PV. Pasture (depending on location,) could sequester more carbon than the avoided fossil emission from using biodiesel from the soy/canola grown on that same acreage.

I say this as someone who grows canola/soy, crushes into meal and oil, meal into livestock, oil into foodservice, recollected and turned into biodiesel ... your mileage may vary.

sidd

timallard

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« Reply #1031 on: May 26, 2016, 06:20:45 AM »
Couple more points:

1) the problem of stratospheric water and N-oxide injection from airplanes does not go away if you use renewable diesel, but such use does decrease fossil carbon into the atmosphere.

2) I do not agree with using fresh veg oil for biodiesel, all those acres of soy and canola might be better off in pasture or solar PV. Pasture (depending on location,) could sequester more carbon than the avoided fossil emission from using biodiesel from the soy/canola grown on that same acreage.

I say this as someone who grows canola/soy, crushes into meal and oil, meal into livestock, oil into foodservice, recollected and turned into biodiesel ... your mileage may vary.

sidd
1) Exactly thus an overall reduction not perfect on-the-ground is a big battle, direct infusion via aviation fuel to me a "very special" class that must step up to the bar and pay the tab to solve that, as a geologist if you put it up there you have to take the steps to attenuate all practical improvements over "business as usual" and take it as whatever can be done at-the-moment not waiting.

The reason simply is we hit 3-ppm last year, Pleistocene avg 1-ppm/1000-yrs, big jump after last ice-age 1-ppm/180-yrs the oceans acidifying from such a strong forcing acidifying 10-times faster than the PETM the context for action.

2) Totally support your production of biodiesel as part of an integration, that's my view as well to use sewage wastewater to grow the algae, they world-class water cleaners make full recycling practical with existing under-the-counter home water filtration systems.

This is to deal with the CO2 on the ground, consider a dairy wash-down is primo algae food and they get the water back, enough to fuel the whole operation for heating & field equipment.

You point out distinctly where the chemists need to focus, soot also beyond my means not a player a sustainable designer.

That's the solution to look for in species hybridization, forget GMO's please 50% oil species had been done pre-WW2, my preference using low oil-content species suggests it may be better for aviation fuel not volume species and that using "plankton" not a single-species approach viable.

My fav Spirogyra found anywhere on the planet only 11% oil there's no end to the supply and you have to battle rotifers more with specialty species afaik, consider that.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 06:27:59 AM by timallard »
-tom

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1032 on: May 26, 2016, 09:45:19 PM »
LG & Iran To Cooperate On Electric Vehicles [and infrastructure] … Probably
Quote
As part of the new agreement (as reported in The Chosun Ilbo), LG International will develop at least 20 EVs for the Iranian auto manufacturer Khodro by the year 2018. The agreement will also see LG develop a number of EV charging stations in the country’s capital of Tehran — which is presumably where the developed EVs will primarily be sold (Tehran is currently home to very high levels of air pollution).
http://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/23/lg-iran-cooperate-electric-vehicles-probably/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1033 on: May 26, 2016, 09:57:10 PM »
Tesla did the math long ago and realized existing battery factories could not supply the amounts needed for their electric cars.

VW is reportedly about to reveal plans for its own battery ‘Gigafactory’
Quote
The battery cell supply chain is close to the number one priority of any automaker looking to manufacture electric vehicles in high volume. Ever since the ‘Dieselgate’ scandal, VW has been under pressure to introduce more electric vehicles to its lineup and earlier this year, it announced plans to introduce 20 new electric vehicles through the group’s brands by the end of the decade.
http://electrek.co/2016/05/26/vw-battery-gigafactory-electric-vehicles/
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timallard

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« Reply #1034 on: May 27, 2016, 06:21:59 AM »
Tesla did the math long ago and realized existing battery factories could not supply the amounts needed for their electric cars.

VW is reportedly about to reveal plans for its own battery ‘Gigafactory’
Quote
The battery cell supply chain is close to the number one priority of any automaker looking to manufacture electric vehicles in high volume. Ever since the ‘Dieselgate’ scandal, VW has been under pressure to introduce more electric vehicles to its lineup and earlier this year, it announced plans to introduce 20 new electric vehicles through the group’s brands by the end of the decade.
http://electrek.co/2016/05/26/vw-battery-gigafactory-electric-vehicles/
Just mentioning in-the-works the Stanford aluminum-ion battery, all-around faster, doesn't catch fire: https://news.stanford.edu/2015/04/06/aluminum-ion-battery-033115/

The other is a recent development in magnesium-ion types, also a good step up from lithium: http://spectrum.ieee.org/nanoclast/semiconductors/materials/unusual-alloy-brings-magnesiumion-batteries-closer

Last one the best news, a way to get lithium from brines that's 99.9% pure: http://cleantechnica.com/2016/04/19/new-method-extracting-lithium-natural-brine-yields-99-9-purity/

I have a ImpactHub bro with a 400-mile range for a tadpole 3-wheel car at 70-mph irrc, it's very aero.

Why is it taking so long to market these ideas, is this like a better carburetor?
-tom

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1035 on: May 29, 2016, 06:41:01 PM »
New Survey Finds More Than Half of California Drivers Interested in Clean Vehicles
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“Many California consumers who might be looking for a new car this summer are primed and ready to purchase an electric vehicle,” said Don Anair, research and deputy director for the UCS Clean Vehicles Program. “These survey results should be encouraging news to automakers who are offering EVs or set to bring new vehicle models to market.”
http://electriccarsreport.com/2016/05/new-survey-finds-half-california-drivers-interested-clean-vehicles/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1036 on: May 29, 2016, 07:03:53 PM »
The weird, secret history of the electric car and why it disappeared.
https://www.upworthy.com/the-weird-secret-history-of-the-electric-car-and-why-it-disappeared
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RoxTheGeologist

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« Reply #1037 on: May 29, 2016, 08:19:05 PM »
Electric vehicles are only part of the solution to reducing GHG in Calfironia. They are not still not suitable for many uses: The biggest reduction of GHG is still ethanol, the most carbon efficient fuel is biodiesel made from waste oils.

See:

http://its.ucdavis.edu/californias-low-carbon-fuel-standard/

CARB is under fire for spending a disproportionate amount of funding on electric vehicles for VERY little payback. Notice that about 8% of the fuel in California was supplied by alternative fuels (about 1.4 billion GGE). Electric vehicles contributed only 13 million of that, so a tiny 1% of all the alternative fuel used, but it has consumed a huge proportion of CARBs funding.

Unfortunately electric vehicles are an entirely unsuitable alternative for at least 40% of the fuel consumed in California and that is not going to change over  the next 2 to 3 decades. If you want rapid GHG reduction in transportation there are better ways to go.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1038 on: May 30, 2016, 04:47:01 PM »
"Tesla (TSLA) 2016 Annual Meeting of Stockholders (the “2016 Annual Meeting”) will be held tomorrow on Tuesday, May 31, 2016, at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View. If you can’t attend, don’t worry because as usual Tesla will be live-streaming the event on its website."

Tesla (TSLA) will hold its 2016 Shareholders meeting tomorrow – here’s what you need to know
http://electrek.co/2016/05/30/tesla-tsla-2016-shareholders-meeting/

Livestream will be here:
https://www.teslamotors.com/2016shareholdermeeting
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1039 on: May 31, 2016, 12:13:45 AM »
California awards $23.6 million for electrified drayage trucks at seaports
Quote
Drayage trucks, which move freight around inside and between port facilities, are a major source of air pollution, and an excellent candidate for electrification. The twin ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach have been testing various electrified options for several years.

Now the state of California has awarded $23.6 million to the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) for a statewide drayage truck development and demonstration project that will involve BYD, Kenworth, Peterbilt and Volvo.

The project will demonstrate 43 Class 8 trucks in three “zero-emission-capable” propulsion configurations. BYD, Peterbilt and California start-up TransPower will collaborate to develop a battery-electric truck. Volvo will deploy a plug-in hybrid diesel truck under the Mack brand. Peterbilt, Kenworth and BAE Systems will work together on a natural gas plug-in hybrid truck.

“This project will help put the very cleanest short-haul trucks to work where they are needed most, moving cargo from the state’s biggest ports to distribution centers and rail yards,” said ARB Chair Mary D. Nichols. “This is good news – and cleaner air – for all Californians, but especially those who live in neighborhoods next to these industrial facilities or along some of our state’s busiest trade corridors.”
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/california-awards-23-6-million-for-electrified-drayage-trucks-at-seaports/
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RoxTheGeologist

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« Reply #1040 on: May 31, 2016, 12:46:18 AM »
California awards $23.6 million for electrified drayage trucks at seaports
Quote
Drayage trucks, which move freight around inside and between port facilities, are a major source of air pollution, and an excellent candidate for electrification. The twin ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach have been testing various electrified options for several years.

Now the state of California has awarded $23.6 million to the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) for a statewide drayage truck development and demonstration project that will involve BYD, Kenworth, Peterbilt and Volvo.

The project will demonstrate 43 Class 8 trucks in three “zero-emission-capable” propulsion configurations. BYD, Peterbilt and California start-up TransPower will collaborate to develop a battery-electric truck. Volvo will deploy a plug-in hybrid diesel truck under the Mack brand. Peterbilt, Kenworth and BAE Systems will work together on a natural gas plug-in hybrid truck.

“This project will help put the very cleanest short-haul trucks to work where they are needed most, moving cargo from the state’s biggest ports to distribution centers and rail yards,” said ARB Chair Mary D. Nichols. “This is good news – and cleaner air – for all Californians, but especially those who live in neighborhoods next to these industrial facilities or along some of our state’s busiest trade corridors.”
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/california-awards-23-6-million-for-electrified-drayage-trucks-at-seaports/

Short distance = good candidate for electrification.

SCAQMD has very serious issues trying to get the port of Longbeach into NOx attainment. Anything that can give zero emissions in ports is a good thing. Particularly since there are hotspots of 1/10000 cancer risk per year because of air pollution in the area around the port.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 10:28:45 PM by RoxTheGeologist »

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1041 on: May 31, 2016, 06:51:46 PM »
Cars and trucks burn almost half of all palm oil used in Europe
Quote
- All the growth (34%) in EU biodiesel since 2010 comes from imported palm oil
- EU biodiesel is now 80% worse for the climate than fossil diesel

An earlier analysis of a European Commission study revealed that the climate impact of biodiesel from palm oil is three times that of fossil diesel because palm expansion drives deforestation and peatland drainage in South-East Asia, Latin America and Africa.

Europe’s use of palm oil in diesel increased six fold between 2010 and 2014. This explosion has fueled all of the 34% growth in biodiesel consumption in Europe in that period. Europe does not produce palm oil because palm trees need a tropical climate to grow in.

Jos Dings, executive director of Transport & Environment, said: “We now know why the industry is withholding these numbers, they show the ugly truth of Europe’s biofuel policy. It drives tropical deforestation, increases transport emissions, does nothing to help European farmers and does not improve our energy security. As if Dieselgate is not bad enough, we now have a Biodieselgate on top.”

Palm oil used for non-energy purposes (for example, food, animal feed, cosmetics and soap) actually declined by one-third between 2010 and 2014. In 2014, 60% of Europe’s total palm oil consumption went into transport, electricity generation and heating.
https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/cars-and-trucks-burn-almost-half-all-palm-oil-used-europe
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1042 on: May 31, 2016, 07:35:48 PM »
 In Europe and China, too.

OPEC’s Cheap Oil Strategy Lures Drivers Back Into Gas Guzzlers
Quote
In China, the world’s second-biggest oil consumer, drivers are also opting for larger vehicles as never before. While cheaper gasoline and diesel helps, analysts said it’s higher incomes -- and a desire to impress relatives and friends -- that’s driving the purchases. According to official data, vehicles such as light trucks and SUVs accounted for almost 35 percent of total Chinese passenger sales in April, up from 10 percent in 2010 and less than 5 percent a decade ago.

"Consumers are thinking that a period of plentiful oil supply is here to stay," said Ruhl of the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority.

Perversely, their behavior could mean that oil prices rise sooner rather than later, as fuel-thirsty vehicles help demand catch up with supply. ...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-30/opec-s-cheap-oil-strategy-lures-drivers-back-into-gas-guzzlers
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1043 on: May 31, 2016, 08:58:54 PM »
Global Plug-in Vehicle Sales Through April 2016
Quote
Plug-in vehicle sales worldwide so far are 180 500 units including preliminary data for April, according to new figures from EV-Volumes, an EV sales database and consultancy.

This is 42 % higher than for the same period in 2015. These include all global BEV and PHEV passenger cars sales and a few light commercial vehicle in Europe.
http://electriccarsreport.com/2016/05/global-plug-vehicle-sales-through-april-2016/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1044 on: June 01, 2016, 09:54:59 PM »
The LEAF used to be the leader in EV sales, but the car's technology and range seems outdated now, compared to the Bolt and the Model 3.

Nissan LEAF sales are in free-fall and Tesla Model 3 could have something to do with it
Quote
Tesla’s reservation process for the Model 3 took a lot of people out of the market. Over 373,000 potential buyers, who presumably were on the market for a ~$35,000 electric vehicle, have now placed a reservation for the Model 3 and therefore are not likely to buy a vehicle for the next year or so while they are waiting for the new Tesla.
http://electrek.co/2016/06/01/nissan-leaf-sales-down-tesla-model-3-fault/
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John Batteen

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1045 on: June 02, 2016, 11:53:11 PM »
The biggest reduction of GHG is still ethanol

I strongly disagree.  I live in Minnesota where we grow corn, most of it for ethanol.  Corn ethanol is basically a roundabout way to turn natural gas into liquid fuel.  Without all the natural gas going into the haber-bosch process to create the ammonia fertilizer dumped on the fields every year, those fields wouldn't produce.  Not to mention all the petrochemical herbicides and pesticides sprayed.  Even if strictly in terms of carbon it's of benefit, the environmental destruction that takes place where the corn is grown is absolutely not worth it.  All of our rivers and lakes are disgusting now because of fertilizer and pesticide runoff.  Forty years ago you could take your family swimming in any lake, and eat fish from any river to your heart's content.  Not anymore.  Now only in the northern half of our beautiful state do we have pristine waters, and even there, only where mining hasn't polluted them.  Maybe ethanol from other sources makes sense but corn ethanol is a giant scam and subsidy to big ag interests, appeasing environmentalists who don't know better but actually destroying the environment.

RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1046 on: June 03, 2016, 12:55:31 AM »
The biggest reduction of GHG is still ethanol

I strongly disagree.  I live in Minnesota where we grow corn, most of it for ethanol.  Corn ethanol is basically a roundabout way to turn natural gas into liquid fuel.  Without all the natural gas going into the haber-bosch process to create the ammonia fertilizer dumped on the fields every year, those fields wouldn't produce.  Not to mention all the petrochemical herbicides and pesticides sprayed.  Even if strictly in terms of carbon it's of benefit, the environmental destruction that takes place where the corn is grown is absolutely not worth it.  All of our rivers and lakes are disgusting now because of fertilizer and pesticide runoff.  Forty years ago you could take your family swimming in any lake, and eat fish from any river to your heart's content.  Not anymore.  Now only in the northern half of our beautiful state do we have pristine waters, and even there, only where mining hasn't polluted them.  Maybe ethanol from other sources makes sense but corn ethanol is a giant scam and subsidy to big ag interests, appeasing environmentalists who don't know better but actually destroying the environment.

I wont go into the life cycle analysis and indirect land use change modelling. The life cycle analysis is VERY extensive, impartial, and includes the carbon cost of growing the corn, transportation and refinement.

Here is the model that is being used to work our the carbon intensity of Corn ethanol.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/ca-greet/ca-greet.htm

In terms of GHG emission reduction of transportation fuels in California ethanol is the biggest contributor, you can disagree all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

Csnavywx

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1047 on: June 03, 2016, 02:30:41 AM »
The EPA/EIA now lists corn ethanol at a carbon intensity about 20% less than gasoline, but there's clearly some discrepancy because of land use change. Even being generous and saying the revision sticks with no further changes -- John is right on about complaining about the nitrate contamination problem in Midwestern states. A significant portion of  groundwater aquifers aren't fit for human consumption now and watersheds subject to surface runoff from agricultural areas (most waterways now) are in a sorry state. There's a reason the North Gulf dead zone is as big as it is.

sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1048 on: June 03, 2016, 05:46:06 AM »
Stipulated, for the moment, the fossil carbon displacement advantage for corn to ethanol.

Nevertheless, I submit that lifecycle analyses have attended to
 
1) horrible impacts of fertilized corn monoculture
2) carbon sequestration in appropriate soils if restored to prairie
3) equivalent investment in transmission for solar farms on favorable sites


Most farmer i know dont understand why not just burn the corn ? They understand all about road fuels, and they go " ... or just drive less"

i kinda agree with them.

sidd
   

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1049 on: June 03, 2016, 09:23:32 PM »
Quote
Elon Musk:  Just heard that Norway will ban new sales of fuel cars in 2025. What an amazingly awesome country. You guys rock!!
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/738805691528318976
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