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Author Topic: Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............  (Read 3458 times)

Gray-Wolf

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Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............
« on: August 13, 2013, 03:32:29 PM »
Just been wading through some of the Topics and I'm a bit saddened that even Neven needs to ask 'Why bother' so hows about a nice thread as to why those able should be doing their damnedest to prepare to survive anything that our climate shift may throw their way?
KOYAANISQATSI

ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
 
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Gray-Wolf

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Re: Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 04:24:04 PM »
To get the ball rolling;

If i was better positioned to survive ( and had the ability to create the situation for myself and family that would enable us a fair crack at enduring the 'dying times' ) then my reason for doing so is the belief that it could prove to be the making of mankind?

Without the pressures of overpopulation, but with the continuation of the levels of sophistication we have achieved, we could truely build Eden for ourselves?

With the continuation of the 'better' aspects of our civilisation we could move away from the capitalist motivations and into a much better 'motivated' way of being?

Sadly , barring a lottery win, I'm Moses on the boundaries of the promised land.........
KOYAANISQATSI

ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
 
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ccgwebmaster

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Re: Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 04:51:56 PM »
Just been wading through some of the Topics and I'm a bit saddened that even Neven needs to ask 'Why bother' so hows about a nice thread as to why those able should be doing their damnedest to prepare to survive anything that our climate shift may throw their way?

I can't promise my answer will be nice. Life isn't nice. People aren't necessarily nice. The world of today isn't nice.

Nonetheless, an answer in several parts:

The personal level

When I was younger (11 or 12), I spent some time contemplating life from the top of a building. The question was simple - is it worth living? Why bother? I grew up in a poor family, and poverty introduces certain negative aspects in itself - but also - for my entire childhood, my family moved around every 1-1.5 years. Every year or two (at very most) I would be injected into a fresh environment (school, etc) as an outsider, and people don't like outsiders. Not being a particularly social individual, that tended to result in the same scenario each time. No real need to go into details.

To the extent that I didn't try to kill myself, the question was essentially abstract. Nonetheless, at that time I decided that at heart I was a fighter, not a quitter. I decided that nothing could be achieved by defeat and that one might as well at least try to fight.

Approximately two decades later, it is still that decision at that time that I fall back on in difficult circumstances. My first law, as it were - underneath everything else that I am. That point in time also arguably represented the start of growing up - and process I maintain I had essentially completed a couple of years later (you can argue that means I never grew up, if you prefer).

The bigger picture

I think it's fair to say I somewhat despise the modern world. It isn't a nice place. Just about anything bad you can think of is happening right now in multiple locations on the planet. People are being tortured to death, starving, being raped, abused, etc. every minute of every day. Once you grasp that, suffering is just a question of scale and statistics.

The world contains groups of people who think it is OK to let their neighbour starve as they dine on banquets, telling themselves their wealth makes them better and more deserving. They think it's OK to go and take anything they want in the selfish interests of short term power, wealth and pleasure from any other group that is unable to resist. To sally forth with nuclear submarines, drones, stealth bombers and men with machine guns in the pursuit of resources for which the only claim they can make is that might is right. They think it is OK to destroy the resources today and to leave the children of tomorrow nothing except ashes. To consume and destroy even those who are innocent, who do not contribute to the world in which they must live and suffer by being born into it.

So to anyone who thinks it is not nice to talk about the future and what may happen, I ask a simple question - what, exactly, is nice about the world we have now?

For many people with a comfortable western lifestyle, it seems they automatically assume that the world today is nice and the future awful (assuming they study climate change and the implications).

From where I stand, that is the province of those who don't know enough about the world and about living in it. The province of those who have spent too much time soaking up a comfortable lifestyle and who aren't willing to look closely at the world beyond it - at the people on the fringes of society and "civilisation" and how people behave today.

And so, in a strange sort of way - not only am I not sure I would miss the world of today, that I have grown up in and found to be pretty negative and unpleasant - but I think wiping the slate clean would in principle offer our species - in however tenuous and improbable a way - a fresh start. A chance, however remote, to build something better.

The stranglehold of the rich and powerful and their vested interests upon our species combined with the infectious memes their behaviour imparts means there is no other credible route I can see to doing so. Hence even in the collapse of civilisation and the plummeting of human population - hope and opportunity for the future continues to exist. At least, that's what I believe.

Philosophically

All things die. Individuals, species, stars - perhaps even universes and (if one thinks they exist) gods. Our demise is inevitable at some point, and not necessarily something in itself to fear (unless you believe in hell, for which I can find no evidence).

Given the inevitability of death and an end - if the outcome is the same no matter what - why not have a damn good try at doing something in the middle? What can you lose that means anything on a bigger scale? I realise the counter argument exists, and that's fine - but I encourage making an active choice, not merely using it to justify apathy.

Neven

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Re: Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 06:32:38 PM »
I'm a bit saddened that even Neven needs to ask 'Why bother'

I've been busy coming to where I am now for many years now, leaving behind safe social structures and generally feeling pretty alone with my convictions (luckily my wife shares them) although we do find friends everywhere we go. Now that we're finally building the house we envision, I feel happy/excited, but at the same time the effort depresses me. All that thinking and toiling, all the energy and resources it consumes...

But still, it must be done.

I like to think like a pessimist, but act like an optimist. Even if it is all useless, it doesn't change the way one needs to act, as it's the means-whereby and not the end that creates a sense of moral and responsible living.

There's plenty of stuff in the eye of the beholder that make it worth living and surviving. With the bad also comes a lot of good. It will always be thus.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Laurent

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Re: Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 07:30:41 PM »
Why survive ?
You may ask the question if you are alone in a human body...that's how most people see things through...even me most of the time !
But the reality of our self exist nowhere else but in our mind, very useful but the truth is we are never alone, completely dependent on the air that you breath (coming from nice bacterias, renew by nice living form...).
Survive is not the goal but adapt to this new environment coming and most of all try to be beneficial to all living forms...I am not thinking flower power but stop thinking nature as being something else, be part of it and stop doing wastes !

opensheart

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Re: Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2013, 01:21:57 AM »
I do find myself dreaming and hoping that humanity can learn.    And in a specific sense.   I wish we could look at the history of our species and find the fundamental flaws with our economics, religions, society.   then I wish we could think up ways to avoid those mistakes and make diferent mistakes.

To me the absolutely most horror filled outcome imaginable is to start over and make the same mistakes again.

Therefore my personal reason to survive is because I think I could make a difference in bending a new society a different way.

I would also include a link to the most beautiful, uplifting, inspiring and hopefilled video series I know of: (Your-Milage-May-Very)
http://thebloomseries.com/

fishmahboi

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Re: Why Survive? Reasons to be cheerful............
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2013, 11:54:55 AM »
Reading everything on this forum constantly makes me ask the same question about survival, mainly because I am having difficulty comprehending what type of world is coming as a result of Climate Change and how this will affect civilization due to the sheer variety of scenarios that are described on this forum which range from life becoming more difficult, to the earth becoming some barren wasteland.

The latter description above makes me question the reason to survive as one would be doing nothing more than trying to exist, and what worth can come from that because in a scenario like that everyone is your enemy and there is really nothing to live for except to be some kind of statistic in some kind of documentation of the events that happened.

I don't know what is going on with the future at this stage with the Arctic in such horrible shape, the world's food stock falling and methane being thrown straight into the atmosphere, with apocalyptic methane releases becoming more likely year by year, particularly with the chances of the sea ice this year reaching zero increasing day by day.