Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland  (Read 260212 times)

Darvince

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 282
    • View Profile
    • NSIDC Daily
  • Liked: 18
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #600 on: April 27, 2019, 12:49:41 AM »
I see it, but based on the shape and scale of the other cracks and the bends in them, I don't believe it is anything other than just noise at this point.

oren

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4405
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 843
  • Likes Given: 1264
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #601 on: April 27, 2019, 01:14:14 AM »
I can see it, but only an animation (corrected for glacier movement) can "prove" if it's a crack and if it's new.

Espen

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3249
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 175
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #602 on: April 27, 2019, 10:45:33 PM »
I've been 'seeing things' for a long time (and sometimes conflicting with 'each other'), but maybe today you'll see 'it' in this GIF made from yesterday's PolarView.  I see a trace of something (a crack?) the yellow line approximately follows .  [Click to play]   (Edit: approx. location of GIF in outline.  Petermann Fjord is 15 km wide.)

(I sure appreciate Thomas's GIFs too.)

At this point I belive it is only a UIO?
Have a ice day!

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #603 on: April 28, 2019, 12:49:02 AM »
an Unidentified Identified Object?
:)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Espen

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3249
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 175
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #604 on: April 28, 2019, 01:01:07 AM »
No an Undentified Ice Object.
Have a ice day!

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #605 on: April 29, 2019, 09:03:00 PM »
Further to what Thomas posted above concerning a crevasse on the NW side of the glacier, the mid-glacier crevasse has also widened over the course of a year.  Images are from Sentinel-hub Playground (April 2018 and April 2019).  The date bars are 150 meters wide and about 38 meters tall.  The location of the crevasse is near the bottom of the image in this post.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #606 on: May 14, 2019, 03:19:24 PM »
Different from the post above, these two SentinelHub Playground images are 28 days apart showing Petermann Glacier is moving about 3 meters per day (at this location).  The orange lines are in the dip of the mid-glacier stream valley on the April 14 and May 12 images.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #607 on: May 30, 2019, 06:54:58 PM »
Melt ponds on Petermann, per May 29 Sentinel-hub Playground image.

Edit: GIF made with ezgif.com [curious, I had to open the GIF to run it.] showing change between May 22 and 29.  I moved one image to mostly remove the effect of the glacier tongue's movement (see change in lower right corner scale).  Lots of change in 7 days.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 07:35:06 PM by Tor Bejnar »
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Stephan

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 711
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 205
  • Likes Given: 115
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #608 on: May 30, 2019, 07:18:33 PM »
Question to the experts: Is this usual for this time of the year or is it (much too) early to happen?

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #609 on: May 30, 2019, 07:50:36 PM »
This part of Petermann Glacier has earlier melt ponds in 2019 than in 2016, '17 or '18.  GIF made from images "dated" May 30 from these four years.  (Date of actual Sentinel-hub Playground image may be earlier, as the 2019 image is actually May 29.  I note the 2016 image has a 'different' shadow.)  You certainly can see the glacier tongue moving year by year!
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #610 on: May 30, 2019, 07:57:27 PM »
Beautifully aligned shadows in '18 and '19.  8)

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #611 on: June 01, 2019, 11:26:56 PM »
Following on what Tor showed.
Meltponds and fissures: June 1 2018 (left) 2019 (right)
Zoom in for meltponds for 2019.
Also, compare relative distance between two fissures June 1 2018 (red arrow) and 2019 (blue arrow).
(these are the main fissures in the middle of Petermann that have been discussed many times.)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 01:10:40 AM by Thomas Barlow »

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #612 on: June 05, 2019, 02:54:07 PM »
A lot of meltponds - June 5.
Click and zoom to view meltponds.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 03:04:27 PM by Thomas Barlow »

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #613 on: June 05, 2019, 02:56:42 PM »
These fissures look like they are ajoining.
Click to zoom in.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #614 on: June 05, 2019, 03:59:24 PM »
Uniquorn's and Espen's posts in January fairly show the connection between the crevasses on the NE side of the Petermann Glacier tongue and the mid-glacier lateral crevasse.  Nice to see it with a different satellite.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #615 on: June 06, 2019, 02:33:31 AM »
I knew I'd seen something like that somewhere, looked for it, couldn't find them. Thanks for those. The radar images showed it was there, and now it is visible on the surface to the naked eye, makes it tangible. I wonder if we'll see it more visible this summer.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 02:45:12 PM by Thomas Barlow »

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #616 on: June 07, 2019, 12:02:43 PM »
What a difference a day makes ... 24 little hours ...

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #617 on: June 11, 2019, 03:42:06 AM »
A lot of melt ponds.
Fissure extension getting more visible.

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #618 on: June 11, 2019, 07:02:40 PM »
Upcoming heatwave should cause those ponds to proliferate even more, putting additional hydro pressure on crevasses.

longwalks1

  • New ice
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 11
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #619 on: June 11, 2019, 08:38:09 PM »
in re 617

My computer wallpaper is a Sentinel shot from June 18, 2016 is almost an an exact copy of the #617.  I might go back and add it to this post as a reference, but work beckons. 

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #620 on: June 11, 2019, 09:49:38 PM »
Maybe one big difference.
(wait...2)  :)

June 18 2016:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 12:00:58 AM by Thomas Barlow »

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #621 on: June 14, 2019, 10:07:36 PM »
Comparing meltponds June 15 2016.

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #622 on: June 14, 2019, 10:08:10 PM »
Comparing meltponds June 15 2017.

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #623 on: June 14, 2019, 10:08:37 PM »
Comparing meltponds June 15 2018.

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #624 on: June 14, 2019, 10:12:06 PM »
Comparing meltponds June 14 2019.

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #625 on: June 24, 2019, 04:16:16 AM »
Ajoined.

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #626 on: June 24, 2019, 04:17:17 AM »
Ajoined.

adjoin (v.)
c. 1300, "unite (something to something else), ally" (a sense now obsolete); late 14c. as "be contiguous with, be adjacent to," from Old French ajoin- stem of ajoindre "join together, unite," from Latin adiungere "fasten on, harness, join to," from ad "to" (see ad-) + iungere "to bind together," from a nasalized form of PIE root *yeug- "to join." Meaning "be contiguous with, be in contact with" is from late 14c. The French word was Latinized 16c. to Modern French adjoindre. Related: Adjoined; adjoining.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 06:14:56 PM by Thomas Barlow »

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #627 on: June 24, 2019, 04:32:22 AM »
Petermann weak spot confirmed.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:38:04 AM by Thomas Barlow »

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #628 on: June 24, 2019, 07:08:55 AM »
When Thomas? This summer?

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #629 on: June 24, 2019, 06:06:39 PM »
When Thomas? This summer?
It is (as good as) one long fissure (red line), seen on the surface as of this week. The stresses on that fissure, now that they appear to be joined into one, must be huge, but I have no idea. If not this summer, I think next summer. Although this glacier is moving so fast now, it could even happen in winter.
Any significant tsunami (from landslides in the area, which happen once in a while with warming tundra), could also make a difference.
I'd be amazed if it lasts more than 18 months.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 06:12:31 PM by Thomas Barlow »

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #630 on: June 24, 2019, 08:08:55 PM »
Agreed. My best bet is this coming winter. When all that water in the cracks is going to freeze and expand, cracking it even more.

Would be a bummer when it happens in winter though. We would rely on radar and couldn't actually see it visually via Sentinel.


Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #631 on: July 03, 2019, 04:08:03 PM »
Petermann Fjord is 'starting' to clear out of seasonal fast ice.  From yesterday's Sentinel-hub Playground.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #632 on: July 03, 2019, 04:50:08 PM »
It's also losing melt pond water via draining.

Which could indicate bottom melt.

Gif showing 30.06. vs. 02.07.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #633 on: July 05, 2019, 08:19:26 PM »
A rather big melt event at Petermann today.

Tomorrows Sentinel shots should show a bluening.

This is the M8 band via RAMMB-SLIDER. Dark grey indicates unstructured snow (aka water), and brightness indicates intact snow structure (aka freshly fallen snow).

Correction: On second thought, this might be caused by rain!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 09:23:01 PM by b_lumenkraft »

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #634 on: July 06, 2019, 08:35:35 AM »
Tomorrows Sentinel shots should show a bluening.

Confirmed!

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #635 on: July 06, 2019, 10:16:19 AM »
The melt ponds on the fast ice have grown due to the rain.

Niall Dollard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 477
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 98
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #636 on: July 10, 2019, 09:56:56 PM »
Fast ice on the move.


ghoti

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 766
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 12
  • Likes Given: 15
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #637 on: July 11, 2019, 10:42:34 PM »
New post about Petermann including two videos from 2015.

https://icyseas.org/

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #638 on: July 11, 2019, 11:44:58 PM »
4 videos at icyseas:
1st video:  Petermann Glacier is bbbiiiiggg!
2nd video:  "tides" are melting Petermann Glacier.

Andreas Muenchow, in his July 3rd post, gives the posters on this thread a shout-out!  How cool is that?

Also, from the July 3 post:
Quote
Furthermore, a new sophisticated computer model of Petermann Gletscher reveals that the loss of this large “still attached” ice island is already gone from the glacier in terms of the friction that it provides along the sidewalls. Another way of putting this, all it takes is a little wiggle or bump and the separation will become visible. Dr. Martin Rueckamp just published this study in the Journal of Geophysical Research.
JGR link
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 12:18:27 AM by Tor Bejnar »
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Andreas Muenchow

  • New ice
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
    • IcySea
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #639 on: July 12, 2019, 05:49:53 PM »
Thank you for the kind words, Tor.

My student (now Dr. Washam) just published his last dissertation paper on Petermann Gletscher's melting processes. It appeared this week in the Journal of Glaciology and can be accessed openly free of charge at https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciology/article/summer-surface-melt-thins-petermann-gletscher-ice-shelf-by-enhancing-channelized-basal-melt/4F111AFFBE670992E7AAD21359561F1B:

From moored ocean observations below the ice-shelf, surface weather, and ice-penetrating radar data at hourly intervalls we concluded that

"...We attribute this enhanced melting to increased discharge of subglacial runoff into the ocean at the grounding line, which strengthens under-ice currents and drives a greater ocean heat flux toward the ice base …"
A Sailor in a Changing Climate
http://IcySeas.org

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #640 on: July 12, 2019, 07:05:41 PM »
OMG, those videos are awesome.

Problem with them, i have so many questions now.  ::)

Espen

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3249
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 175
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #641 on: July 17, 2019, 11:02:31 PM »
While we are waiting for Petermann to calve, just a reminder we are also loosing a lot of ice next door to Petermann Fjord,and that is on top of Washington Land, the ice caps here will soon be history:
Have a ice day!

Alphabet Hotel

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 116
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #642 on: July 19, 2019, 09:28:25 PM »
Ice has cleared from the mouth of the glacier.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2974
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 307
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #643 on: July 19, 2019, 09:57:49 PM »
except for the fast ice in that protected northern (right) corner.

Pretty picture.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Alphabet Hotel

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 116
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #644 on: July 26, 2019, 04:07:42 PM »
Melt is way up.

click for full resolution

DrTskoul

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1451
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 210
  • Likes Given: 60
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #645 on: July 26, 2019, 05:52:33 PM »
Melt is way up.

click for full resolution

That is a beautiful blue!!!

Stephan

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 711
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 205
  • Likes Given: 115
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #646 on: July 26, 2019, 09:25:38 PM »
Is this comparable with "the big melt year" 2012 or had it been worse then?

Alphabet Hotel

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 116
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #647 on: July 26, 2019, 10:23:16 PM »
Is this comparable with "the big melt year" 2012 or had it been worse then?
I think this is worse, but I don't really have any proof that it is.

I just finished looking at most of the west coast between Jakobshavn and Humboldt and it's just crazy. Melting everywhere, giant sheets of bare ice exposed, icebergs spreading all over the place in the open sea. It looks like the days and days of melting in some areas is really starting to have an effect.

Thomas Barlow

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #648 on: July 29, 2019, 03:42:57 PM »
Temperatures at Peterman Glacier are pretty high?

blumenkraft

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 967
  • Fans of Hans Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 455
  • Likes Given: 631
Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #649 on: July 29, 2019, 04:03:58 PM »
Thomas, i agree it's warm there but you placed the dot slightly wrong (Nares Land that is i think), not Petermann. :P
Refugees welcome