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Author Topic: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland  (Read 226610 times)

Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #650 on: July 29, 2019, 06:12:32 PM »
Temperature at Petermann:
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blumenkraft

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #651 on: July 29, 2019, 06:17:50 PM »
That's interesting!

GFS has it much colder.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #652 on: July 29, 2019, 06:26:32 PM »
Even B_ doesn't have Petermann Glacier location right.
From Petermann's Glacial History, see that Petermann Glacier is off of Hall Basin, the place where Nares Strait widens (and opposite Lady Franklin Bay).  (For all the place names in the area, go to Greenland Maps thread.)

[Espen has the location right.  Of course, I'd believe him over my own research...]
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blumenkraft

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #653 on: July 29, 2019, 06:47:36 PM »
Even B_ doesn't have Petermann Glacier location right.

Damn!  :-\

I blame Nullschool! :P
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #654 on: July 29, 2019, 08:24:21 PM »
Since one year ago, the lateral mid-glacial crevasse has increased in width (~44 m to ~56m at the right side of the GIF below) and is clearly longer by about 1150 meters (yellow [approximate] trace).  For scale, the date bars are approximately 620 m wide and 100 m tall.  Images from Sentinel Playground here and here. [requires a click]

Interesting that some melt ponds are smaller this year.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 08:35:26 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #655 on: July 30, 2019, 05:05:58 PM »
Breaking Old NewsAnother calving at Petermann Gletscher, this time probably the oldest satelite documented calving at Petermann, the calving happened sometimes in the 1976 melting season, notice the front of Petermann at that time reached all the way to the mouth of Petermann Fjord.
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DrTskoul

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #656 on: July 30, 2019, 05:37:58 PM »
Not Broken old news ??

 Very cool find. Thank you!!

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #657 on: July 30, 2019, 06:47:21 PM »
On the 'left' (southwest) side of Petermann Glacier are several crevasses, 'one' of which may soon met up with the lateral mid-glacier crevasse (see post above).  Here is a one-year (two frame) GIF showing how they have grown. Sentinel-hup Playground images from 2018 and 2019.  For scale, the date bars are approximately 620 m wide and 100 m tall. The 'top' crevasse has lengthened about 2.6 km.  (The dark area on the left is shadow from the land looming over the side of the glacial tongue.) [requires a click]

Edit:  obviously, the glacier has advanced during this year.  The two images were adjusted so that a particular stream meander would be un-moved.  The result is the top of the images appear fixed while the lower parts of the GIF appear to rotate counterclockwise.  I think this is caused by the rifts on the NE side of the tongue (or shelf) opening faster than on the ones on the SW side (here pictured), causing this future ice island to rotate a little, even while still attached to the rest of the floating ice shelf.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 06:55:48 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #658 on: July 30, 2019, 08:51:20 PM »
Cross-post - a copy belongs here ...
The linked reference implies that the stability of the ice in the Petermann catchment is likely less stable than consensus climate scientists currently assume:

Chambers, C., Greve, R., Altena, B., and Lefeuvre, P.-M.: On the possibility of a long subglacial river under the north Greenland ice sheet, The Cryosphere Discuss., https://doi.org/10.5194/tc-2019-141, in review, 2019.

https://www.the-cryosphere-discuss.net/tc-2019-141/

Abstract. Does a long subglacial river with a source deep in the interior of the Greenland ice sheet, drain into the sea at the Petermann Glacier grounding line? Basal topographic data shows a segmented valley extending from Petermann Fjord into the centre of Greenland, however the locations of radar scan lines, used to create the bedrock topography data, indicate that valley discontinuity is due to data interpolation. Simulations where the valley is opened are used to investigate effects on basal water and ice sheet sliding. The simulations indicate that the opening of this valley results in an uninterrupted water pathway from the interior along the valley that alters ice sheet sliding in the Petermann catchment and in areas of west Greenland. Along its length, the path of the valley progresses gradually down an ice surface slope causing a lowering of ice overburden pressure that could enable water flow along its path. The fact that the valley base appears to be relatively flat and follows a path along the interior ice divide that intersects the east and west basal hydrological basins, is presented as evidence that its present day form developed as a consequence of the overlying ice sheet rather than prior to ice sheet inception. Though considerable uncertainty remains, the results are consistent with a present day active long subglacial river system. The results raise issues concerning the need to better observe, understand, and simulate the complicated basal hydrology of the Greenland and other ice sheets.
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Sterks

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #659 on: July 31, 2019, 12:35:28 AM »
If it means something to you I did this gif for my own amusement comparing early June to recent date. But I can see you use much bigger zoom and quality to study the crevasses etc.

DrTskoul

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #660 on: July 31, 2019, 01:18:34 AM »
Neat!!!

oren

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #661 on: July 31, 2019, 10:09:34 AM »
Nice animations Tor and Sterks. Note the 2017 typo.

Sterks

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #662 on: July 31, 2019, 10:58:00 AM »
Nice animations Tor and Sterks. Note the 2017 typo.
Thanks, Ah didn't catch that, the Sentinel-hub app puts those labels. I'd swear these images are 2019

grixm

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #663 on: July 31, 2019, 12:06:00 PM »
Nice animations Tor and Sterks. Note the 2017 typo.
Thanks, Ah didn't catch that, the Sentinel-hub app puts those labels. I'd swear these images are 2019

Are you sure about that? Looks to me like your pictures are indeed from 2017. Here's a gif comparison between 2017 and now (click). Notice the shape and position of the the edge, and compare to your image.

Thomas Barlow

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #664 on: August 02, 2019, 01:35:09 AM »
You guys probably knew about this, but this is Petermann Glacier.
Huge hidden canyon under Greenland ice sheet may have flowing water:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2211583-huge-hidden-canyon-under-greenland-ice-sheet-may-have-flowing-water

I don't have access to New Scientist but here is the Wiki page about the canyon, which they are now saying may have flowing water under it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland%27s_Grand_Canyon

blumenkraft

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #665 on: August 02, 2019, 04:44:11 PM »
I've seen sediment saturated waters coming from Petermann almost every day since the fast ice is gone. I always wondered where it came from. Now i know.

Thanks, Thomas, great info.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #666 on: August 04, 2019, 03:43:49 PM »
RE: Sediments

Click to play
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Dietrich

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #667 on: August 05, 2019, 05:16:29 PM »
Replying to move the counter.  Can't let this thread stay at 666.   The GIS response is scary enough on it's own

blumenkraft

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #668 on: August 05, 2019, 05:22:29 PM »
That's almost heroic, Dietrich. Thank you. :)
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #669 on: August 05, 2019, 05:34:43 PM »
There is a poll concerning Petermann Glacier and the timing for the creation of the next ice island.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2862.msg219270.html#msg219270
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blumenkraft

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #670 on: August 05, 2019, 05:39:58 PM »
Thanks, Tor. Cool idea.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #671 on: August 15, 2019, 10:27:16 PM »
Teeny tiny calving yesterday. Is this the beginning?
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #672 on: August 15, 2019, 11:38:43 PM »
Well, it is the beginning of a ~60 m wide iceberg!  (and several smaller ones)
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Thomas Barlow

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #673 on: August 16, 2019, 03:05:52 AM »
Another calving at Petermann Gletscher, this time probably the oldest satelite documented calving at Petermann, the calving happened sometimes in the 1976 melting season, notice the front of Petermann at that time reached all the way to the mouth of Petermann Fjord.
How many kilometres retreat of the face do you think that is from the mouth of the fjord in '75 to where it is today?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 03:12:45 AM by Thomas Barlow »

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« Reply #674 on: August 16, 2019, 03:51:59 AM »
Surely you can figure that out - hint:  Petermann Fjord is 15 km wide.
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