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Planetaria

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Third international Arctic Forum
« on: October 05, 2013, 10:00:51 PM »
Third International Arctic Forum "Arctic is a Territory of Dialogue" was held in Russian city Salekhard: http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_09_28/Russia-s-wealth-to-multiply-in-the-Arctic-2192/

ggelsrinc

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 06:43:08 AM »
Third International Arctic Forum "Arctic is a Territory of Dialogue" was held in Russian city Salekhard: http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_09_28/Russia-s-wealth-to-multiply-in-the-Arctic-2192/

Welcome to the Arctic Sea Ice Forum, Planetaria!

Since the arctic is a territory of dialogue, let me point out, the arctic is not a territory owned by Russia, the United States, Canada, Norway or Denmark. If the arctic is a territory at all, it's a territory owned by the whole world and any country thinking otherwise should just stay the hell out of it.

Talk is as cheap as the politicians who open their mouths. Talk is cheaper than the fools who listen to politicians or fools like me who comment about them. It's what you do and not what you say that counts.

In other words, put your shirt back on, President Putin! We'll gladly remove this going topless moratorium when the Russians elect a female as their President.

Now that we're on such good terms, President Putin, could you lend me a few of your nuclear powered icebreakers? I'd like to test them out to see if we can make arctic sea ice during the refreeze season. We can call it a "kick the tires" road trip.

We can work together and find other ways to provide people the resources they need, while keeping the polar bears happy.

   

Jim Hunt

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 05:04:51 PM »
Welcome to the Arctic Sea Ice Forum, Planetaria!

We can work together and find other ways to provide people the resources they need.

Hear, hear! On both counts.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Planetaria

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 08:17:35 PM »
Dear ggelsrinc,

And how the Arctic belongs to Africa, if it belongs to the whole world? Are African countries washed by the Arctic Ocean?! Or the Arctic is the extension of Africa? Definetely, not.


To keep polar bears happy good environmental policy is needed. Mankind outside the state won't suggest it, as people harm the nature and don't think about any consequences. In that case Russian initiative is really wise.


ggelsrinc

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 04:29:43 PM »
Dear ggelsrinc,

And how the Arctic belongs to Africa, if it belongs to the whole world? Are African countries washed by the Arctic Ocean?! Or the Arctic is the extension of Africa? Definetely, not.


To keep polar bears happy good environmental policy is needed. Mankind outside the state won't suggest it, as people harm the nature and don't think about any consequences. In that case Russian initiative is really wise.

Dear Planetaria,

Who owns the wind? Which parent on Earth owns their children? Do I own my Old English Mastiff, named Lucy the Goosey, or does the dog own me? All of those things involve obligations and not ownership. As a human being, I'm obligated to take care of my dog and children, until they can take care of themselves. My children are all grown, but I'm still waiting on the dog to go to the store and buy me some human food for pay back. In doing so, I also have an obligation to the person downwind of me who is trying to basically do the same thing.

The state is a concept and not a living, breathing human being. A person born in Africa has just as much ownership or obligation to the arctic as I have as an American citizen. We all equally need it.

Planetaria

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 08:31:57 PM »
Quote
The state is a concept and not a living, breathing human being. A person born in Africa has just as much ownership or obligation to the arctic as I have as an American citizen. We all equally need it.

Dear ggelsrinc,
Then we don’t need states or countries. And all people should have equal access to all world territories and resources. But it is impossible in the modern world…It’s like a Utopia….

ggelsrinc

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 10:42:15 PM »
Quote
The state is a concept and not a living, breathing human being. A person born in Africa has just as much ownership or obligation to the arctic as I have as an American citizen. We all equally need it.

Dear ggelsrinc,
Then we don’t need states or countries. And all people should have equal access to all world territories and resources. But it is impossible in the modern world…It’s like a Utopia….

Dear Planetaria,

We very much need states or countries with governments regulating human activities, so one person isn't harming another. We also very much need a state or country looking out for the interest of the human race. Which one of those five countries in the OP is doing that?

Should the US claim ownership of the Moon and start charging lovers a fee for looking at it? As ridiculous as that sounds, it's also ridiculous to consider the arctic in terms of ownership and not obligation. The world's long history of spoiled brat countries always wanting more and not caring for what they have has to end.

Planetaria

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 08:30:04 PM »
Quote
Should the US claim ownership of the Moon and start charging lovers a fee for looking at it? As ridiculous as that sounds, it's also ridiculous to consider the arctic in terms of ownership and not obligation. The world's long history of spoiled brat countries always wanting more and not caring for what they have has to end.

Dear ggelsrinc,

One of the differences between the Moon and the Arctic is that the Arctic is the extension of territories of some countries. And according to the Article II of the Outer Space Treaty (Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies), “Outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means”.

Quote
Dear Planetaria,

We very much need states or countries with governments regulating human activities, so one person isn't harming another. We also very much need a state or country looking out for the interest of the human race. Which one of those five countries in the OP is doing that?

As we need a state or country to regulate human activities and to look out for the interest of human race, then we need state or country to regulate environmental policy in the Arctic, in order to no person is harming another or the nature...

ggelsrinc

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Re: Third international Arctic Forum
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 10:01:51 PM »
Quote
Should the US claim ownership of the Moon and start charging lovers a fee for looking at it? As ridiculous as that sounds, it's also ridiculous to consider the arctic in terms of ownership and not obligation. The world's long history of spoiled brat countries always wanting more and not caring for what they have has to end.

Dear ggelsrinc,

One of the differences between the Moon and the Arctic is that the Arctic is the extension of territories of some countries. And according to the Article II of the Outer Space Treaty (Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies), “Outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means”.

Quote
Dear Planetaria,

We very much need states or countries with governments regulating human activities, so one person isn't harming another. We also very much need a state or country looking out for the interest of the human race. Which one of those five countries in the OP is doing that?

As we need a state or country to regulate human activities and to look out for the interest of human race, then we need state or country to regulate environmental policy in the Arctic, in order to no person is harming another or the nature...

Dear Planetaria,

I salute the first President (PM or whatever) of any of those 5 countries who stands up and states they will treat the arctic like Antarctica and asks the other nations to follow their example. They don't have to give up their territorial claims, but just put a moratorium on developing offshore resources in that area. I've been aware for a long time that the Russians and all the people of those other countries love their children, too.