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oren

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1100 on: December 05, 2018, 03:12:49 AM »
There may soon come a time where I start banning people as well, who are unwilling to discuss underlying causes and oppose radical solutions to systemic problems. Especially if they display (neo)conservative tendencies, like you do, either consciously or subconsciously.

Again, if you can't even admit something as simple as George Bush being a war criminal, it may be best that you start looking for a forum that is more to your liking, or at least restrict your presence to the Arctic Sea Ice board. I think it would be better for you, and it would definitely be less tiresome and depressing for me.
Neven I have publicly predicted a long while ago that the proliferation of politics on this forum will destroy it. I am marking your post as a milestone. As you are the owner, you may not care and decide that is okay. But it's a pity really. The whole Internet is filled up with politics and political trolls. And yes, almost anybody posting incessantly in these threads is basically a troll, begging your pardon. Nothing is achieved except feeding the trolls on the "other side", whatever it may be.
But there are very few well-moderated denier-less forums dedicated to arctic sea ice, AGW, SLR, sustainability, carrying capacity, long-term trends, and all the science behind it all. But this will be gone in order to bring in useless political rants that go nowhere and convince no one.
I have asked you time and again to split the forum, start a forum on politics - with different aliases to avoid the cross-contamination of emotions, and leave the poor ASIF free of this garbage. It's 100% your call, I am just disappointed in it. Very much so.
Now I know that you say repeatedly that just the science is not enough, but a systemic social change is needed. Granted, the borders between the science, economics and politics are somewhat ambiguous, but surely fighting over whether Russia or Ukraine are the bad guys in some tiny conflagration somewhere is outside the scope, and there are many other examples. Far too many to list.
It was JimD who started some of the political threads on the ASIF - such as this Empire thread. But JimD knew how to state his opinion clearly, tie it to the long-term trends that are in the scope of this forum, and be done with it. His posts never felt irrelevant or repetitive, but now I'm sorry he opened the door and then went away. Can you imagine JimD arguing over whether Bellingcat or RT are the true bible? I am ashamed that this is going on in a forum I spend so much time on. And I am certain I am far from being the only one who feels that way.
I will let this sad post go now. Do with it what you will.

bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1101 on: December 05, 2018, 03:33:24 AM »
There may soon come a time where I start banning people as well, who are unwilling to discuss underlying causes and oppose radical solutions to systemic problems. Especially if they display (neo)conservative tendencies, like you do, either consciously or subconsciously.

Again, if you can't even admit something as simple as George Bush being a war criminal, it may be best that you start looking for a forum that is more to your liking, or at least restrict your presence to the Arctic Sea Ice board. I think it would be better for you, and it would definitely be less tiresome and depressing for me.
Neven I have publicly predicted a long while ago that the proliferation of politics on this forum will destroy it. I am marking your post as a milestone. As you are the owner, you may not care and decide that is okay. But it's a pity really. The whole Internet is filled up with politics and political trolls. And yes, almost anybody posting incessantly in these threads is basically a troll, begging your pardon. Nothing is achieved except feeding the trolls on the "other side", whatever it may be.
But there are very few well-moderated denier-less forums dedicated to arctic sea ice, AGW, SLR, sustainability, carrying capacity, long-term trends, and all the science behind it all. But this will be gone in order to bring in useless political rants that go nowhere and convince no one.
I have asked you time and again to split the forum, start a forum on politics - with different aliases to avoid the cross-contamination of emotions, and leave the poor ASIF free of this garbage. It's 100% your call, I am just disappointed in it. Very much so.
Now I know that you say repeatedly that just the science is not enough, but a systemic social change is needed. Granted, the borders between the science, economics and politics are somewhat ambiguous, but surely fighting over whether Russia or Ukraine are the bad guys in some tiny conflagration somewhere is outside the scope, and there are many other examples. Far too many to list.
It was JimD who started some of the political threads on the ASIF - such as this Empire thread. But JimD knew how to state his opinion clearly, tie it to the long-term trends that are in the scope of this forum, and be done with it. His posts never felt irrelevant or repetitive, but now I'm sorry he opened the door and then went away. Can you imagine JimD arguing over whether Bellingcat or RT are the true bible? I am ashamed that this is going on in a forum I spend so much time on. And I am certain I am far from being the only one who feels that way.
I will let this sad post go now. Do with it what you will.
I will +1 oren's request to abolish politics here. This subforum is vile.

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1102 on: December 05, 2018, 03:59:25 AM »
I am ashamed that this is going on in a forum I spend so much time on. And I am certain I am far from being the only one who feels that way.

I will let this sad post go now. Do with it what you will.

I think you are being the Troll now! Such is the value of personal opinion, well, imho. ;)

Quote
but surely fighting over whether Russia or Ukraine are the bad guys in some tiny conflagration somewhere is outside the scope - Can you imagine JimD arguing over whether Bellingcat or RT are the true bible?

It's all connected - why are you so blind to this or do not care less about this fact? Maybe if you actually read some of the refs and commentaries here over the years you wouldn't be so ignorant and misguided as you are. So given you have no genuine knowledge about what has been discussed on these pages for years, who are you to tell others what should be done here? I'm gobsmacked at the level of conceit that must be behind such highly uninformed but highly opinionated waffle.

Every political issue is a moral issue. Global Warming and Climate Change is the #1 moral issue of our era. The science is irrelevant - not one single paper will ever be written that adds an ounce of knowledge on top of what we already know is ammunition enough to foster and drive massive political change throughout the entire world.

The United States Govt has decided to withdraw from the Paris Treaty. The United States of America has only ever once acceded to the any UNFCCC Agreement for a short few years out of 26 years since it began. If you foolishly imagine that US actions undermining Governments all over the world from Ukraine, Venezuela, Ecuador, Russia, China, India, Syria, Yemen, Iran, Brazil, in Africa to the Pacific to Europe and the influence of NATO has no relation to core issues about Climate Change - then I am ashamed of you! Because that is what Toxic looks like in the real world outside the ASIF every day.

If you are so confused and uninformed that you cannot recognize that there is a global political battle occurring now and that winning that battle for hearts and minds is the only solution to bringing Climate Change to heel - then I am ashamed of YOU!

If you have to say is that "Those people over there: they are just too rude for me to countenance." Fine. Then don't read it! No one has a gun to your head forcing you, right? Use your "better than others self-control" to stay away instead.

You clearly have not got a clue how everything is already tightly inter-connected. Unlike Neven who most definitely does. Go attend to what interests you and mind your own business about what other people are doing. But, I am certain I am far from being the only one who feels that way!!! I won't forget this very sad post of yours. It's been noted and filed according to it's worth.

If I was Never I'd delete yours and put you on notice to stop with the prejudicial ad hominem assaults on others.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 10:45:28 AM by Lurk »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1103 on: December 05, 2018, 04:36:00 AM »

Every since I got into environmentalism, the biggest disappointment was to see how many scientists retreat into their own little world. They rarely engage in activism and almost never confront the underlying issues that caused this mess in the first place. Sometimes I get the feeling that they think their sacrifice in their respective field is enough, and that they have no obligation to engage with the messiness of politics. Maybe they're right. But the problem is when they do enter the foray, they have poorly formed ideas on social, economic and political issues. They then try to apply their own rigid logic to incredibly complex issues. Between academic arrogance and the mountains of propaganda, they develop very poor ideas of how to fix this problem.

It can be argued that there is more value in discussing politics than discussing sea ice at this point. The science is there. It's undeniable. What else do we need? Solving climate change was never about science. It was always a social and political issue.

It would be a big mistake to remove politics from the most active climate change forum in the internet. What do you think is going to happen by ignoring politics? Are things going to get better?

I'm getting tired of academics and others talking about change without having any idea what that means. Talking about a decarbonized world, but making no effort in figuring out how to achieve that. Unwittingly supporting the type of politics and economics that is destroying this world. And when the going gets tough, they hide in their gardens and coffee shops.

------

I'll point out that Neven does an excellent job moderating this forum. This forum has huge ideological differences between it's users, which is incredibly difficult to moderate.

Posters like myself make his job very difficult, I admit. And my posts contribute to a toxic atmosphere. But you have understand that climate change is the biggest threat to mankind, so it requires loud and radical voices.
I can only thank him for the sacrifice he makes by running such a community.

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1104 on: December 05, 2018, 04:53:35 AM »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1105 on: December 05, 2018, 06:03:51 AM »
oren


Where do we draw the line between discussing global warming and discussing world politics?


Does The Guardian's handling of Assange's supposed visit by a former Trump campaign worker have any bearing on what weight should be given to articles they write about the Paris Accord? I'd argue that there is a relationship and that defining this through discussion can be to everyone's benefit.


Discussing the Ukraine and how Putin handled the situation in Crimea gives us a peek into the mind of a man who arguably controls a large percentage of the fossil fuel being marketed today. Talking about the journalist who died in the Turkish Embassy may hint at how the KSA will react when things don't go the way MbS would prefer. Trump's travails, and discussions about how, when, and by whom he'll be replaced brings the worlds third fossil fuel powerhouse into the discussion.


Is it possible to discuss the future of Global Warming without discussing the future of fossil fuel? Is it possible to discuss the near term future of fossil fuel without discussing these men?


It's nice to be able to place another dot on a chart, or draw a curving line that accurately describes the volume of Arctic ice in the ESAS this November, but I'd argue that our interests must go deeper than that or we'll simply find ourselves on a continuum that understands more and more about less and less.


I at least am interested in a much broader look at the past, present, and future of our warming world. The actions of the political players have at least as much to do with this as the reactions of the jet stream to an increasingly warm Arctic ocean.
I care about the wanderings of the gulf stream, but also the Texan piloting the tug near the Kirsch Strait Bridge. Either could have an effect on the price of wheat next year, and the price of wheat might start a migration that brings down one or more of the gas suppliers that opens the gates for coal generators to come back on line.
I know that's a silly linkage, but it does illustrate just how complex and intertwined everything is.


I followed the charts and graphs daily for years. It slowly dawned on me that this was only a small corner of the world, and only a tiny piece of a much more complex problem. Today I spend far more of my time below the line learning what I an of the political side.
As you said, there are thousands of political blogs, but this site has it's own followers. It's where I'm most comfortable & where I'll probably stay, health and Neven willing.
Terry


sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1106 on: December 05, 2018, 08:39:16 AM »
This discussion probably belongs on "Forum Decorum" or "Suggestions" thread. I reply on "Forum Decorum" mostly because i like the rhyming title.

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1107 on: December 05, 2018, 09:28:32 AM »
Re: "virtually all adults leave behind a legacy that is at least a little morally ambiguous."

Don't get me wrong. My taxes pay to kill little children in Yemen and elsewhere. I do not evade agency here, if I had the guts i'd go full amish and work thru barter alone (yes, i know, barter is taxable event but IRS never comes after amish or anyone else for that because good luck nailing anyone there) or go live in the woods a la

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii-7354256/

But i don't have the guts to do that. So i proceed as I can, given my moral failings. But i will not excuse evasion of guilt by those in more powerful places than I am; such as, for example, the president of the united states of america.

sidd
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 09:34:54 AM by sidd »

Neven

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1108 on: December 05, 2018, 11:33:02 AM »
Sidd is right, there are other threads for this discussion (also applies to myself).

Oren, my thoughts are echoed in zizek, Lurk and Terry's comments. I'm an activits. I started the ASIB and then the ASIF with a goal in mind: to solve AGW (even if it's chasing windmills). I didn't and don't do all of this to create a pleasant and polite tea circle.

On topic again, please.
Compare, compare, compare

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1109 on: December 05, 2018, 11:48:00 AM »
Sidd is right, there are other threads for this discussion (also applies to myself).

On topic again, please.

Yes and No. There is only one Off-Topic post here and it is by Oren. And then the reply by BBR. That's it. 

The responses to him were proper and very On-Topic with Empire - America and the future ( a very wide ranging scope) that literally embraces AGW/CC issues by default and therefore the ASIF itself and Oren's "opinions" in particular.

And for further clarity, you cannot the discuss "the future" without addressing the Historical record too. They are bound into the one single continuum. imv at least and I have done a bit of difficult history work in my day.

I again highly recommend those two videos with Chomsky - the science and history topics he addresses is amazing and yet there was this etheric connection to all of them.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 11:56:51 AM by Lurk »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

johnm33

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1110 on: December 05, 2018, 11:54:50 AM »
Anyone done an audit of the carbon footprint of imposing the Empire?

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1111 on: December 05, 2018, 12:08:21 PM »
Anyone done an audit of the carbon footprint of imposing the Empire?

None I know of. What may be more useful is an analysis of the carbon footprint (longer term GW impact) of the global MIC broken down by nation states and other nefarious interrelationships. 2000-2015 sounds like productive period to start on.
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1112 on: December 05, 2018, 01:25:32 PM »
Dec 4

 US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said that Washington will suspend its obligations under the 1987 INF nuclear treaty within 60 days if Russia does not “return to compliance.”

Speaking to NATO foreign ministers on Tuesday, Pompeo said the US was willing to start the process of leaving the treaty, citing alleged Russian violations.

“In light of these facts, today, America will announce it finds Russia in violation of the treaty and we will remove ourselves from the treaty in 60 days unless Russia returns to compliance,” he said.
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1113 on: December 05, 2018, 09:22:40 PM »
Dec 4

 US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said that Washington will suspend its obligations under the 1987 INF nuclear treaty within 60 days if Russia does not “return to compliance.”

Speaking to NATO foreign ministers on Tuesday, Pompeo said the US was willing to start the process of leaving the treaty, citing alleged Russian violations.

“In light of these facts, today, America will announce it finds Russia in violation of the treaty and we will remove ourselves from the treaty in 60 days unless Russia returns to compliance,” he said.


Ouch!


How long will Europe stand for Trump's unilateral actions that either limit their financial options or limit their chances of survival.


Dump the sanctions. Out America for breaking the IMF treaty. Pull out of NATO. Send American troops home, and isolate the pariah nation.


What option, other than a complete loss of sovereignty is available?
Terry

oren

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1114 on: December 05, 2018, 10:29:50 PM »
I just want to thank all the responders to my complaint to Neven. I did read all though I will refrain from further response.

Neven

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1115 on: December 06, 2018, 12:18:36 AM »
Another reminder for those living in the United States of Amnesia:

Compare, compare, compare

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1116 on: December 06, 2018, 02:03:30 AM »
Thanks Neven


That's a wonderful reminder of the not so distant past. I wonder how the lying lass is living out her years. I hope that she's bright enough to be fully aware of the ruin that her words unleashed. I hope she's had a number of children that she cared for as tenderly as the millions of mothers who lost their loved ones due to her lies.


The term War Criminal isn't strong enough to describe her actions. Quisling, mass murderess, traitor, none convey the horrors that she perpetrated. "Nayirah" might be used to describe this degree of malfeasance, but so few of the monsters in fiction or reality reach the level of revulsion that her name envisions.


Perhaps she's now a stringer for the Atlantic Council, writing first hand accounts of the horrors of Maidana, assuaged by Aunt Vicki's sweet cookies, or accounts of the brave football hooligans fighting for their lives against the women and children who burned themselves to death in the Odessa Trade Union Building.


Is she now blanketed in a burka, or sporting swastika tattoos on her inner thigh? I hope that unlike most of her countrymen she lives a long life, filled with remorse for the horrors she precipitated.
Terry

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1117 on: December 06, 2018, 04:27:34 AM »
CYPRUS Mediterranean - Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Wednesday. According to information from different sources, Washington is taking actions to ensure the possibility of building up its military presence in Cyprus, she said. Such activity is aimed at countering “the growing Russian influence in the region in light of the successful implementation of the operation of the Russian Aerospace Force in Syria,” TASS quoted the spokeswoman as saying.

The further militarization of the island and its involvement in the implementation of American and NATO plans “will inevitably lead to dangerous and destabilizing consequences for Cyprus itself,” Zakharova noted. “Moscow cannot but take into consideration the anti-Russian background of these schemes. We will have to take response measures in case of their implementation,” she added.
----

 An American destroyer sailed off the Russian coast, near the Pacific Fleet base in Vladivostok, in a first such stunt since the Cold War. Another US ship is expected in the Black Sea soon, amid tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

The USS MCCampbell (DDG-85) went into the vicinity of Peter the Great Bay to “challenge Russia's excessive maritime claims and uphold the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea” enjoyed by the US and others, Lieutenant Rachel McMarr, a spokesperson for the US Pacific Fleet, said in a statement.

The US Navy calls such stunts “Freedom of Navigation Operations” (FONOP). The last time a FONOP was conducted in this area was 1987, at the peak of Cold War tensions with the Soviet Union.

-----

That is not all, however. The US Navy could also be planning to send a warship into the Black Sea in the near future. CNN reported that the State Department has notified Turkey of the intent to send a warship through the Bosporus and the Dardanelles, which requires a 15-day notice under the terms of the 1936 Montreux Convention.

The 1936 treaty also limits the presence of ships from nations that don’t border the Black Sea to a maximum of 21 days. The US last had a ship in the area back in October.
 
Anonymous US officials told CNN the move was a response to last month’s incident between Russian coast guard ships and three Ukrainian vessels in the Kerch Strait, which connects the Sea of Azov to the Black Sea.

“We routinely conduct operations to advance security and stability throughout the US 6th Fleet area of operations to include the international waters and airspace of the Black Sea,” fleet spokesman Commander Kyle Raines told CNN.

---

Canadian law enforcers have arrested a top executive at Chinese telecommunications equipment maker Huawei, heeding a request from the US. She is reportedly sought by the US for breaking trade embargo with Iran.

The US Justice, Commerce and Treasury departments have so far refused to divulge any information on the reported criminal investigation into Huawei, or even confirm its existence. According to the WSJ, the company was served subpoenas by the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control as part of the investigation.

----

New Cold War is more dangerous than the one the world survived – Stephen Cohen 

In the latter months of 2018, the facts and the mounting crises they document grow worse, especially in the US political-media establishment, where, as I have argued, the new Cold War originated and has been repeatedly escalated. 

For most mainstream-media outlets, Russiagate had become, it seemed, a kind of cult journalism that no counter-evidence or analysis could dent and thus itself increasingly a major contributing factor to the new Cold War.

There is a ray of light, though scarcely more. In August 2018, Gallup asked Americans what kind of policy toward Russia they favored. Even amid the torrent of vilifying Russiagate allegations and Russophobia, 58 percent wanted “to improve relations with Russia,” as opposed to 36 percent who preferred “strong diplomatic and economic steps against Russia.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/cold-war-russia/

---

Lurk's Comment:
Erm, need to give Turkey 15 days notice? The kind of lawful Treaty arrangements Ukraine chose to intentionally ignore in the Kerch Strait recently. Mmmmm. Clearly Russia was in the wrong there.  :o

Much going on, impossible to keep up with I'd say.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 05:17:17 AM by Lurk »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

Rob Dekker

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1118 on: December 06, 2018, 05:50:25 AM »
This will be my last post here on the ASIF for a while.

Neven's remarks have convinced me that I'm not welcome on this forum, so I'm following AbruptSLR in abandoning this forum.

Here are my final notes, including a few which are very, very personal.

Rob, I don't know what America has given you that makes it so difficult to simply admit that George Bush was a war criminal. It's doubly strange because you're not even a born American, which should give you some kind of perspective. I guess that you're the kind of conservative that Corporate Democrats successfully aim for (instead of representing the working class).

One of the four agreements in life is : "Never make any assumptions".

Quote
Even though I believe that the battle with climate risk deniers has largely been won, I still kick them off this forum. I didn't know that there would be an even bigger hurdle to overcome, represented by your way of thinking.

My way of thinking ?

I've tried to promote something called "evidence-based reasoning" in the political threads on this forum.

It works like this :

If you make a statement, like Bush Sr. is "a war criminal and a thief", you actually would back it up with evidence.

Like, on which exact occasions did Bush Sr. violate any rules of war (like the Geneva Convention) and on exactly which occasions did he steal anything.

It does not just work for that statement you made about Bush, but it would work for ANY statement ANYONE makes. About Bellingcat, about the Atlantic Counsel, about the US, about the Skipal case etc etc.

Really, just anything. Always back up your statements with evidence.
Similar to what they do at MetaBunk :
https://www.metabunk.org/posting-guidelines.t2064/

I tried hard to promote that habit, and the following triangle of truth :



I've had surprisingly little success here on the ASIF.

Quote
There may soon come a time where I start banning people as well, who are unwilling to discuss underlying causes and oppose radical solutions to systemic problems. Especially if they display (neo)conservative tendencies, like you do, either consciously or subconsciously.

Does the question if Bush was a war criminal or not affect anything about solutions to tackle AGW or other "systemic problems" ?

If not, why do you even want to throw me of this forum for holding an opposite opinion to yours ?

Quote
Again, if you can't even admit something as simple as George Bush being a war criminal, it may be best that you start looking for a forum that is more to your liking, or at least restrict your presence to the Arctic Sea Ice board. I think it would be better for you, and it would definitely be less tiresome and depressing for me.

and

Quote
Another reminder for those living in the United States of Amnesia:

Let me get personal here. And I warn you : This is at my core :

I was born in and grew up in the Netherlands.
My parents did too.
Nazi Germany invaded my small country in 1940, and occupied it until US and other coalition forces liberated it in 1945.

My parents came very close to starvation in the brutal 44/45 winter when they were drinking soup made from tulip bulbs to survive while 10s of thousand of Dutch starved to death.

If it were not for the US and Canada and other coalition forces to face Germany head-on and liberate the Netherlands in 1945, my parents would probably have starved to death, since the Germans took EVERYTHING out of the country. And I mean EVERYTHING.

That's why I relate to the people in Kuwait, when they were invaded by their larger and stronger neighbor. And that's why I relate the the coalition of 35 countries decided to kick the invaders out.

And that's also why I relate to the people in Ukraine, who have also seen a larger and stronger neighbor take part of their country and bully and harass them.

I am eternally grateful that the US and coalition forces decided to liberate Western Europe in WWII, and I respect the US mostly BECAUSE they decide to do what is RIGHT, including Gulf War I.

Now, you guys have a fun time pissing on the US, and pissing on the Democrats, and blaming past presidents of war crimes and finding little cracks in the story and turning the facts upside down.

Because I'm out of here...
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1119 on: December 06, 2018, 07:26:10 AM »
I tried hard to promote that habit, and the following triangle of truth :

Responded in Forum Decorum
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 10:50:13 AM by Lurk »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1120 on: December 06, 2018, 08:47:22 AM »
Bye Bye
Terry

Neven

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1121 on: December 06, 2018, 12:05:14 PM »
Let me get personal here. And I warn you : This is at my core :

I was born in and grew up in the Netherlands.
My parents did too.
Nazi Germany invaded my small country in 1940, and occupied it until US and other coalition forces liberated it in 1945.

My parents came very close to starvation in the brutal 44/45 winter when they were drinking soup made from tulip bulbs to survive while 10s of thousand of Dutch starved to death.

If it were not for the US and Canada and other coalition forces to face Germany head-on and liberate the Netherlands in 1945, my parents would probably have starved to death, since the Germans took EVERYTHING out of the country. And I mean EVERYTHING.

Rob, you sound like someone living in the Alsace who was liberated by the Germans during the Franco-Prussian war, and then was grateful to Germany forever afterwards, no matter what Germany did.

You can be grateful to the US for liberating the Netherlands, while at the same time acknowledge that George HW Bush was a war criminal. Really, you can. It would be fair to all the millions of people who have suffered from his monstrous actions, just like your parents did during the Hongerwinter.

BTW, did you know that George HW Bush's father got rich doing business with the Nazis? He profited from your parents' suffering, and that's why his privileged boy became president, to commit similar crimes against people like your parents (except they were brown and the wrong faith, so it doesn't really count, right). Bush got very rich and famous. That was his reward.

Quote
That's why I relate to the people in Kuwait, when they were invaded by their larger and stronger neighbor. And that's why I relate the the coalition of 35 countries decided to kick the invaders out.

Yes, those poor incubator babies on the cold floor. Ends justify the means when revenge is at stake, right?

Quote
And that's also why I relate to the people in Ukraine, who have also seen a larger and stronger neighbor take part of their country and bully and harass them.

But you don't relate to the large Russian minority within Ukraine. You only care about what the media and American government tells you to care about. You're not really serious, Rob. You think you are, because you feel all that righteous indignation filling the void in your soul, but you're not. Good luck finding an echo chamber that is more to your liking. Shouldn't be too difficult.
Compare, compare, compare

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1122 on: December 06, 2018, 02:29:47 PM »
Secretary of State Michael R. Pompeo
German Marshall Fund
Brussels, Belgium
December 4, 2018
(extracts)
SECRETARY POMPEO:  ... the issues that confront the Marshall Fund and confront our region as well.
---
 The central question that we face is the question of whether the system as currently configured, as it exists today, and as the world exists today – does it work?  Does it work for all the people of the world?
---
 Today, does (the United Nations) continue to serve its mission faithfully? (and on and on)
---
Our mission is to reassert our sovereignty, reform the liberal international order, and we want our friends to help us and to exert their sovereignty as well.  We aspire to make the international order serve our citizens – not to control them.  America intends to lead – now and always.
---
Our administration is thus lawfully exiting or renegotiating outdated or harmful treaties, trade agreements, and other international arrangements that do not serve our sovereign interests, or the interests of our allies.
---
all NATO allies should work to strengthen what is already the greatest military alliance in all of history.
---
Let’s work together to preserve the free world so that it continues to serve the interests of the people to whom we each are accountable. Let’s do so in a way that creates international organizations that are agile, that respect national sovereignty, that deliver on their stated missions, and that create value for the liberal order and for the world.

Read in full:
https://ua.usembassy.gov/remarks-by-secretary-pompeo-at-the-german-marshall-fund/
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 05:21:11 PM by Lurk »
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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1123 on: December 06, 2018, 04:19:10 PM »
PAKISTAN

After the US Administration 'all but' labelled Pakistan a pariah state and enemy of the US over it's "perceived terror ties", a $300 million Aid package was cancelled in September.

This week however President Trump still sent a personal letter to the new PM Imran Khan seeking his assistance with some Afghanistan problems the US has.

Yesterday, Dec 5, Pakistan time ran out for 18 foreign NGOs expelled officially in October. A total of 27 international non-governmental organizations (NGOs) received expulsion orders late last year, but 18 appealed. They all lost that appeal.

The Ministry has allowed 141 NGOs to continue their activities, while directing 72 NGOs to complete their documentations.
https://arynews.tv/en/us-regrets-pakistan-clampdown-on-foreign-ngos/

October 2018
ActionAid along with 17 other foreign relief organizations had appealed expulsion orders issued late last year to 27 NGOs in all, mostly those working on human rights issues.
https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/pakistan/pakistan-tells-18-foreign-ngos-to-shut-down-operations/
https://leagueofindia.com/news-report/naya-pakistan-expels-18-international-ngos-gives-no-reason/

I do not know the names of the full list of all 27 NGOs given notice late last year.
Quote
The Ministry of Interior gave the 27 NGOs 90 days to conclude operations, according to a list seen by Reuters. Among those being expelled are Action Aid, World Vision, Plan International, Trocaire, Pathfinder International, Danish Refugee Council, George Soros’ Open Society Foundations, Oxfam Novib, and Marie Stopes.

Talal Chaudhry, Pakistan’s Minister of State for Interior Affairs, told Reuters the reason for shutting down the NGOs was because they were doing work in Pakistan “which is beyond their mandate and for which they have no legal justification”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-rights/pakistan-closes-27-ngos-in-what-activists-see-as-widening-crackdown-idUSKBN1EG0SJ

In 2014, former interior minister Chaudhry Nisar had unveiled a policy for international NGOs, wherein they would require the government’s consent to gather funds and operate. “NGOs working against Pakistan’s strategic, security, economic or other interests will have their registration cancelled,” he said, adding that any organisation restrained from working will have the right to appeal,” he was quoted as saying.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1583668/1-pakistan-orders-29-foreign-ngos-leave-country-within-60-days/

Quote
INGOs issued notices to wind up ops within 60 days from Oct 5, 2018
    Center for International Private Enterprise (CIPE), US
    Internews Network, US
    Pathfinder International, US
    Central Asia Education Trust, US
    American Center for Int’l Labor Solidarity (Solidarity Center), US
    World Vision, US
    Catholic Relief Svc (CRS), US
    Plan International, US
    International Relief and Development Inc, (IRD), US
    International Alert, UK
    Saferworld, UK
    ActionAid, UK
    Stitching BRAC International, Netherlands
    Rutgers, Netherlands
    Trocaire, Ireland
    Danish Refugee Council (DRC), Denmark
    Foundation Open Society Institute (FOSI), Switzerland
    ISCOS, Trade Unions Institute for Development Coop, Italy
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 05:16:41 PM by Lurk »
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Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1124 on: December 06, 2018, 05:50:03 PM »
In other Empire News:

President Erdogan made a State visit to Venezuela and signed a number of "agreements/MUOs"

With President Maduro then jumping a plane for another State visit to Russia. 

PM Imran Khan of Pakistan made a State visit to China where they signed a few "agreements/MOUs" too.

And multiple nations are doing "currency swaps" in order to fulfill payments in Bilateral currencies to avoid using USD etc., while others are striking agreements to use either Rubles or the Yuan for Oil purchases all over the shop (the planet.)

Russia seems to be about to agree with the Saudis to cut Oil production, while Qatar opts out of OPEC and signs are there that Iraq may do the same at anytime.  After the OPEC meeting there will be another meeting within days between OPEC and non-OPEC oil exporters in Europe somewhere.

And China and the USA have set 90 days temporary stay of their "trade war" with many pundits opining the Chinese are unlikely to kowtow to demands when that clock runs out.

A looming death cross for the S&P 500 highlights a stock market in tatters  as Dow plummets another 720 points. The DOW is now where it was a year ago, as is the S&P. The NASDAQ  is trading at the exact same level it was on Jan 1st. Europe indexes are all down about 3.5% today and all are down (+10% ?) on a year ago. Bitcoin price is now what it was in mid-Sept 2017 $3640 again, and the majority of Cryptocurrencies are falling further down as well.

While the EU courts are being asked if the UK can unilaterally withdraw it's Article 50 or does the whole EU have to agree to that - as PM May's govt hangs in the balance or rather a knife's edge with no one knowing wtf will happen there the next 3 months. As Bill and Hillary begin their new Nth America "road show" this month in Canada..... pundits smell an announcement coming, but Biden may beat her to the punch this time could even "knock her out." 

And Russia's new "Laser weapon" (whatever it is and whatever it is supposed to do, no one is quite sure yet) which was announced by Putin in March this year, then that too is operational. Just as those 3 new Defense satellites were placed into orbit and turned on. Their new upgraded ICBM missiles are being loaded into their silos as we speak as Pompeo keeps on complaining about alleged INF "breaches".

Well if those "Trump voters" in 2016 and those "Democrat voters" in 2018 were really looking for a bit of "Establishment disruption" then it is there to be had in spades now. Though I make no predictions at all.

May you live in interesting times. :)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 06:02:58 PM by Lurk »
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Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1125 on: December 07, 2018, 08:12:01 AM »
Internews in Pakistan (example)
https://www.internews.org/news/internews-data-journalists-explain-foreign-aid-pakistan

Quote
David Hoffam founder of Internews Network NGO

Now David Hoffman, A&S '66, has become the libertarian godfather of independent news media around the world.

 The state TV . . . is taken over by the opposition, they agreed to show our news blocks that we were producing and collecting . . . and we had a chance to provide information through the Russian channel. .... Hoffman smiles and says, "This is quite exciting."

For more than two decades, Internews has supported — with training, technology, and legal expertise — independent media in Algeria, Bahrain, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Egypt, Georgia, Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Palestinian Authority, Vietnam, the republic of Yemen, and other countries.

From its headquarters in Arcata, California, it has helped build 29 independent radio stations across Afghanistan and establish independent radio in Kosovo.

He says evolution is his current religion, poverty is the great issue of our time, and Republicans are superior to Democrats in understanding independent media. He knows the key players in Kyrgyzstan but admits he can't name the mayor of Arcata. In the 1960s, he burned his draft card. In the 1970s, he grew his own organic food and read Eastern philosophy. In 2005, after the Iraqi elections, he sent Paul Wolfowitz, with whom he maintains a friendly correspondence, a note conceding the U.S. government may have been right to push for democratization in Iraq. "My friends here don't know what to think," he says. "The Wolfowitz stuff flips them out."
https://pages.jh.edu/jhumag/0605web/hoffman.html
Related links/news:

https://www.macfound.org/grantees/454/

https://medium.com/local-voices-global-change/about

https://www.internews.org/about-us

Bringing people’s voice at the centre: ICRC signs two MoUs with Fondation Hirondelle and Internews
https://www.icrc.org/en/document/bringing-peoples-voice-centre-icrc-signs-two-mous-fondation-hirondelle-and-internews

8 Ways USAID is Promoting and Protecting Democracy, Human Rights and Governance Around the World
July 25, 2018
Internews wins second place in the 2018 USAID/Democracy, Human Rights and Governance (DRG) photo contest
https://www.internews.org/news/8-ways-usaid-promoting-and-protecting-democracy-human-rights-and-governance-around-world

Media Workers’ Toolkit for
Safer Online and Mobile Practices
https://www.internews.org/sites/default/files/resources/Internews_SpeakSafeToolkit.pdf

Follow the Money: How the US Government Funds Tor
Tor – the largest global online anonymity network – is under siege. Users try to protect themselves from surveillance while US and UK intelligence agencies work to peel away the layers of anonymity.
But a closer look at Tor’s history reveals it was developed by the US military – and now that it’s out, government agencies are spending a fortune trying to crack their own creation.
https://www.whoishostingthis.com/blog/2014/11/17/who-funded-tor/
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Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1126 on: December 07, 2018, 08:15:49 AM »
Internews Network

Quote
In 2004, 80 percent of their budget came from the U.S. government[1]. Internews Network is a member of Internews International, an association of over 30 non-governmental media organizations.[2]
 USAID had made the large grant to establish the Russian independent television network. Evelyn Messinger secured a large sum from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) to study independent media in Eastern Europe. Internews secured $8 million to set up a media center, a news agency, and broadcast and print outlets in Ukraine."
Although born and bred a nonprofit, Internews funds for-profit TV enterprises half a world away, thanks to multimillion-dollar contracts from the Agency for International Development, effectively the US government's foreign aid bank. Along with this generous funding comes grants from more than a dozen foundations, including one handsomely endowed by financier-philanthropist George Soros. Over the last few years, no other nonprofit, developing, post-Soviet media organization has garnered more American aid dollars than Internews."
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Internews

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/David_Hoffman

According to the information received, on August 4, 2005, Mrs. Khalida Anarbayeva, former Managing Director of the representative office of Internews Network, and currently Senior Advisor, and Mrs. Olga Narmuradova, Accountant of Internews Network, were accused of violating Article 190(2)b of the Uzbek Criminal Code on charges of "publishing information and producing videos without a license". In delivering his verdict to a court in camera, the judge said that Internews had "started meddling in the politics of Uzbekistan and in the politics of the President and that’s why the proceedings were instituted".
https://www.fidh.org/spip.php?page=article&id_article=2622

Internews trainers teaching Russians how to make TV ads has raised more eyebrows than mine. The same Wired article put it best; “…many might look at [Internews president and co-founder David] Hoffman’s history of absconding with U.S. public monies to infiltrate Russia’s airwaves and to establish mega-advertising nodes among millions of new consumers as suspicious and ethically complex.” More than one journalist has commented on Internews’ “secretive, incognito status,” hardly the demeanor you’d expect from a philanthropic outfit on such a noble mission—particularly one touting media ethics. In all the years that I lived in Arcata, I rarely heard a word about Internews. I’ve spent years on the web researching political and media related issues and have never stumbled upon a single word about Internews.
https://drkprnts.wordpress.com/what-is-internews/

Mariia Butina? Nah, surely not.

Quote
In fact, the Russians previously had in their sights at least two of the groups that she and other students interacted with.
Butina participated in the project under the tutelage of a respected professor who advised the State Department on cybersecurity matters. It was carried out for the nonprofit group Internews, which works extensively with the U.S. government to bolster the free flow of information in dangerous parts of the world and has drawn Russian ire with some of its programs in Russia and neighboring countries. The group also advises other nonprofits on cybersecurity.

Internews confirmed Butina's involvement and a broad description of what the project involved. A lawyer for Butina did not respond to a request for comment.

Butina's project raised few eyebrows before her July arrest, despite the fact that news reports already had posed questions about her rapid rise from selling furniture in Siberia and her ties with Kremlin officials.

As part of the project, a small group of students led by Butina was given a list of Internews partners working on human rights and press freedom issues for research purposes only, with the understanding that they not be contacted without consultation. But the students contacted some of the groups anyway, according to people involved in the project who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to describe the work.

An individual who has worked on U.S. programs in Ukraine told the AP that after Butina's arrest he was briefed by U.S. officials who expressed concern that two Internews programs in Ukraine — dealing with media freedom and cybersecurity, and funded by the State Department — may have been exposed to Russian intelligence and may be at risk due to Butina's student work.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mariia-butina-studied-u-s-groups-cyberdefenses-n925471


Relates to more information on the US Intervention thread
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2204.msg183499.html#msg183499
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sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1127 on: December 07, 2018, 08:40:06 PM »
Sjursen over at antiwar traces the formal beginning of Empire to 1898. He does point out that the origins are earlier:

"The truth, of course, is far more discomfiting. The U.S. was an empire before it had even gained its own independence. From the moment that Englishmen landed at Jamestown and Plymouth Rock, theirs was an imperial experiment."

"the U.S. was a great land empire most similar (ironically) to that of Russia, but an empire nonetheless."

In this context, Chomsky has characterized  the USA, Australia and New Zealand, and Israel as "settler colonialism" where the original inhabitants are extirpated, as opposed to say, India, where the populations survived despite the Late Victorian Holocausts, and other famines.

Sjursen continues:

"Still, there is something profound about 1898 and the years that followed. For it was in this era that the American people—and their leaders—became sick with the disease of overseas imperialism. With no Indians left to fight and no Mexican lands worth conquering, Americans looked abroad for new monsters to destroy and new lands to occupy. "

After a detailed historical discussion, he concludes on a slight note of optimism:

"We live still in the shadow of 1898. The choice between republic and empire still lies before us."

I am more pessimistic. That choice was made long ago. The end of Empire will only come when it's power is violently broken, which I fear will be a long, bloody and vicious process.

A long piece, but very worth reading.

https://original.antiwar.com/Danny_Sjursen/2018/12/06/tragic-dawn-of-overseas-imperialism/

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1128 on: December 08, 2018, 01:03:56 AM »
NATO Will Not Stop Itself 

It is clear that NATO’s expansion is aimed at Moscow itself. It will continue until it is forcibly stopped. This means either by Russia warding off NATO expansion until NATO collapses under its own unsustainable weight, or Russia outmatches NATO at the very edge of the West’s extent in areas Moscow clearly holds the military, sociopolitical, and economic advantage.
The Kerch Strait incident and attempts to leverage it as a pretext to place NATO warships in the Sea of Azov is a dangerous provocation – the Sea of Azov is not “international waters” and is considered by both Ukraine and Russia as an inland sea they share control over.

If people like Stephen Blank have their way and warships enter the Sea of Azov – NATO will be one step past many of the proxy wars the West is already fighting Russia through – and one step closer to fighting Russian forces directly.

Blank’s claiming NATO must act to confront Russian “provocations” is an instance of inverse reality. In this case – NATO is encircling Russia, violently stripping it of buffer states where the West and East have and could have continued to share influence to avoid conflict, and is instead turning them into frontier fortresses in preparation for what is clearly further and more direct conflict planned with Russia in the future.

A nation leading an alliance that must cross the Atlantic Ocean and several seas to station its vessels in Russian waters is not reacting to provocations – it is the provocateur.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/12/07/natos-aggression-reaches-for-russian-waters/

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1129 on: December 08, 2018, 01:09:20 AM »
The United States has long meddled in Latin America’s affairs…

The US-manufactured crisis is forcing Venezuelans to rummage for garbage.
Originally posted on War is Boring September 28, 2018 / Andrew Dobbs

On Sept. 11, 1973, a military junta headed by Gen. Augusto Pinochet completed a coup against the left-wing government of Chilean president Salvador Allende. Allende had given hope to many leftists around the world that socialism could come to power peacefully and coexist with liberal political institutions. The chaos and tumult of his three year presidency and its violent end seemed to demonstrate the impossibility of such a strategy.


Castro and Chavez: Two heroes of Latin American and world revolution. If the CIA or other US intel services had assassinated them, most Americans would have shrugged the whole thing off.
Twenty-five years later, however, another Latin American leftist came to power through a mass movement at the ballot box — Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez — and promised a different path towards the same goal. Chavez proposed a less aggressive, more creative path towards socialism, one with more democracy than ever before for the people of Venezuela

Chavez died of cancer in 2013, and now five years later it seems that his socialist dream, like Allende’s, has failed. Under his successor Pres. Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela has descended into economic and political chaos. Hyperinflation has beset the country, with prices rising at an annualized rate of 1,000,000 percent.

Shortages of basic necessities such as toilet paper and bread have caused mass unrest, culminating in violent protests. Now there is open talk about the need to overthrow Maduro or remove him from power, perhaps through U.S. military intervention.

The parallels with Venezuela and Chile, however, should prompt far more skepticism from honest observers. The CIA long ago confessed to years of maneuvering to destabilize the Allende government and to coordinate the forces that would bring it to an illegal and violent end. There is ample evidence now that just such a plot is underway in Venezuela today, and that it is very likely to succeed. The best way to tell, in fact, is to study what happened in Chile.

The outcome in Venezuela is likely to be very different than what happened in 1973, with major security implications for South America, the Caribbean and beyond. If recent U.S. policy has anything to teach us, it’s that the Venezuelan people may wish that they got off as easily as the Chileans did.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/12/06/to-understand-venezuelas-crisis-look-to-the-past-and-the-cia/

SteveMDFP

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1130 on: December 08, 2018, 02:33:58 AM »
NATO Will Not Stop Itself 
. . .
The Kerch Strait incident and attempts to leverage it as a pretext to place NATO warships in the Sea of Azov is a dangerous provocation – the Sea of Azov is not “international waters” and is considered by both Ukraine and Russia as an inland sea they share control over.

I don't think so.  Control by two states means that the Sea of Azov is, by definition, international waters.  So is the Black Sea. 
Even if the Kerch Strait were solely within Russian territorial waters (this is disputed by most nations), being the sole strait between international waters, then the Law of the Sea says that all vessels must be permitted free access through the strait.
No exception for that military vessels may be intercepted.
No exception that having a bridge over the strait affects the law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_passage

"Transit passage exists throughout the entire strait, not just the area overlapped by the territorial waters of the coastal nations. The ships and aircraft of all nations, including warships, auxiliaries, and military aircraft, enjoy the right of unimpeded transit passage in such straits and their approaches."

Ukraine, in this matter, was not the chief provocateur.

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1131 on: December 08, 2018, 05:52:20 AM »
By 1997 at the latest, it was abundantly clear and self-evident to those paying attention, the Enlargement of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) process was directly targeted at constraining the emergence of Russian Federation into the global structures of free trade, finance and geopolitical cooperation with the western powers.  NATO has less to do with 'defense' than it does with being a tool for Economic power and control, as well as being a 'Neoliberal Neoconservative Noose' around their collective throats. (my opinion is not alone on this)

40 Nations attended the NATO Summit in 1997 - at which time there were only 17 NATO Members
One notable absence from the summit was Boris Yeltsin, President of Russia, though Russia did have a guest representative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Madrid_summit

Had there been any lingering doubts about this, on 12 March 1999 it was a 'fait accompli.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO#Adriatic_Charter
Note the expansion Map
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO#/media/File:History_of_NATO_enlargement.svg

In 2004 NATO expansion had become a 'Force de Jour'! Every nation that has joined NATO since German Reunification, 13 of them, is an ex-Soviet Republic. As are most who are waiting in line to join.

The NATO Partnership for Peace Program membership is equally intriguing
NATO builds relationships with partners through military-to-military cooperation on training, exercises, disaster planning and response, science and environmental issues, professionalization, policy planning, and relations with civilian government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace#Current_members

I am unaware how successful that has been as a diplomatic tool for cooperation and mutual trust.
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Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1132 on: December 08, 2018, 11:12:48 AM »
The United States was among the nations that participated in the third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea, which took place from 1973 through 1982 and resulted in the international treaty known as the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). The United States also participated in the subsequent negotiations of modifications to the treaty from 1990 to 1994. The UNCLOS came into force in 1994. Although the United States now recognizes the UNCLOS as a codification of customary international law, it has not ratified it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

Why Hasn't the US Signed the Law of the Sea Treaty?
If China does disregard the decision, the United States almost certainly will portray the case as yet another instance in which Beijing flouts international law. But any U.S. attempt to pressure China over its rejection of the ruling will be complicated by the fact that Washington itself has not ratified the treaty on which the Philippine complaint is based — the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, or UNCLOS.
https://www.voanews.com/a/united-states-sign-law-sea-treaty/3364342.html

Welcome! UNCLOSDebate.org is an effort to expand the debate on U.S. ratification of the Law of the Sea (or UNCLOS) while at the same time building a better system to crowdsource policy debate on complex topics (whew!). You can read more about the project here, jump in one of the featured topics on the left, or let us show you around with the tour below (coming soon!) and on most pages.
https://www.unclosdebate.org

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1133 on: December 08, 2018, 12:03:08 PM »
Most likely you will find the best answer is under the dictionary heading for Duplicitous.
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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1134 on: December 08, 2018, 12:18:07 PM »
List of treaties unsigned or unratified by the United States
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This is a list of international treaties the United States has either not signed, not ratified, or signed but later withdrawn.

Among these treaties, a few have been singled out by organizations such as Human Rights Watch, as extremely important, and the United States reluctance to ratify them problematic.[1] Some of the treaties are the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, the Kyoto Protocol, and the Ottawa Treaty.

1930 - Forced Labour Convention, not ratified
1948 - Freedom of Association and Protection of the Right to Organise Convention, not signed
1949 - Right to Organise and Collective Bargaining Convention, 1949, not signed
1950 - Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons and of the Exploitation of the Prostitution of Others, not signed
1951 - Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, party to only the 1967 protocol
1951 - Equal Remuneration Convention, not ratified
1954 - Convention relating to the Status of Stateless Persons, not signed
1958 - Discrimination (Employment and Occupation) Convention, not ratified
1960 - Convention against Discrimination in Education, not ratified
1961 - Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, not signed
1962 - Convention on Consent to Marriage, Minimum Age for Marriage and Registration of Marriages, signed but not ratified
1964 - Employment Policy Convention, 1964, not ratified
1966 - International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, signed but not ratified
1966 - First Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, not signed
1969 - Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutory Limitations to War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity, not ratified
1969 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, signed but not ratified
1972 - Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, signed but withdrew in 2002
1977 - American Convention on Human Rights, signed but not ratified
1977 - Protocol I (an amendment protocol to the Geneva Conventions), not ratified
1977 - Protocol II (an amendment protocol to the Geneva Conventions), not ratified
1979 - Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, signed but not ratified
1979 - Moon Treaty
1981 - Occupational Safety and Health Convention, 1981, not ratified
1989 - Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, not signed
1989 - Convention on the Rights of the Child, signed but not ratified
1989 - Basel Convention, signed but not ratified
1990 - United Nations Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families, not signed
1991 - United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, not signed
1992 - Convention on Biological Diversity, signed but not ratified
1994 - Convention on the Safety of United Nations and Associated Personnel, signed but not ratified
1996 - Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, signed but not ratified
1997 - Kyoto Protocol, signed with no intention to ratify
1997 - Ottawa Treaty (Mine Ban Treaty), unsigned
1998 - Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, unsigned [2]
1999 - Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, not signed
1999 - Criminal Law Convention on Corruption, signed but not ratified
1999 - Civil Law Convention on Corruption, not signed
2002 - Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture, not signed
2006 - International Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, not signed
2007 - Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, signed but not ratified
2008 - Convention on Cluster Munitions, not signed
2011 - Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, signed but not yet ratified
2016 - Trans-Pacific Partnership, signed but not yet ratified
2017 - Paris Agreement, signed but not ratified
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_unratified_by_the_United_States

...and those on the inside looking out wonder why some of those on the outside looking in have such a dim view.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 02:15:38 PM by Red »

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1135 on: December 09, 2018, 12:42:37 AM »
Thanks Red!


Your list should be translated and nailed to the door of every American Embassy in the world.


Whenever an American voice is raised at the United Nations demanding that some other country be held accountable for violating a treaty that the US is not a party to, he should be drowned out by howls of  laughter from those representing those nations actually covered by that treaty.


Ratifying the Law of the Sea would force the States to abandon her hopes of internationalizing Canada's North West Passage. Ending any possibility of Canada's being able to oversee the environmental regulation of vessels passing through her waters.


Unilaterally declaring the Sea of Azov to be international waters invalidates treaties in place prior to 1700. The 2003 treaty with the Ukraine acknowledges this and spells out the rights of both of the countries that share dominion over this sea.


Just as Chinese war ships have no right to ply Lake Superior, NATO warships have no right on the Sea of Azov without permission from both Russia and Ukraine.


To get back closer to our topic, has any further information leaked out re. the status of the Texas accented tug boat captain? Were all of his crew were also Americans? What charges are they facing since their capture in waters that have been acknowledged as being Russian for longer than Philadelphia has been acknowledged as being in American hands.


Terry

Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1136 on: December 10, 2018, 11:38:42 AM »
Our collective worries about the collapse of the natural world and the few things we could do to perhaps slow or even stop the possible extinctions are moot in the face of the more likely global war that is being cooked up by the TPTB on our behalf. There will be nothing to save after this goes off and at present rate off it will go!

The United States continues to brandish its military power all round the globe and has recently been concentrating on confronting Russia and China. Its policy and deployments were explained by the US Air Force Secretary in September when she declared that Washington felt threatened because “Less than a week ago Russia began the largest exercise on Russian soil in four decades… with more than 300,000 troops and 1000 aircraft.

On the other side of the world, China’s first aircraft carrier was declared combat ready this year, and promptly sailed into the Pacific to conduct flight operations.”

The absurdity of that statement escaped fitting comment by the West’s mainstream media, which also considers it astonishing that Russia should carry out a military exercise in its own territory following the massive build-up by the US-NATO military alliance along its borders. As pointed out on November 15 by Russia’s Foreign Ministry, this expansion can be seen “along the entire stretch of land connecting the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea. Since October, vast operational resources have been concentrated in the Baltic Region and the north of Europe, due to a series of major international exercises. They are being deployed in addition to NATO regiments already present in the countries of the eastern flank. Those regions have never seen such a military presence since the end of the World War II”.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/12/09/countering-washingtons-confrontation/


......and then there is this:
Ukraine’s provocation follows the advice of several American think-tanks like the Atlantic Council, which have been calling for NATO involvement in the Sea of Azov for months. The area is strategically important for Moscow, which views its southern borders, above all the Sea of Azov, as a potential flash point for conflict due to the Kiev’s NATO-backed provocations.

To deter such adventurism, Moscow has deployed to the Kerch Strait and the surrounding coastal area S-400 batteries, modernized S-300s, anti-ship Bal missile systems, as well as numerous electronic-warfare systems, not to mention the Russian assets and personnel arrayed in the military districts abutting Ukraine. Such provocations, egged on by NATO and American policy makers, are meant to provide a pretext for further sanctions against Moscow and further sabotage Russia’s relations with European countries like Germany, France and Italy, as well as, quite naturally, to frustrate any personal interaction between Trump and Putin.

This last objective seems to have been achieved, with the planned meeting between Trump and Putin at the G20 in Buenos Aires being cancelled. As to the the other objectives, they seem to have failed miserably, with Berlin, Paris and Rome showing no intention of imposing additional sanctions against Russia, recognizing the Ukrainian provocation for what it is. The intention to further isolate Moscow by the neocons, neoliberals and most of the Anglo-Saxon establishment seems to have failed, demonstrated in Buenos Aires with the meeting between the BRICS countries on the sidelines and the bilateral meetings between Putin and Merkel.

On November 30, following almost two-and-a-half months of silence, the Israeli air force bombed Syria with three waves of cruise missiles. The first and second waves were repulsed over southern Syria, and the third, composed of surface-to-surface missiles, were also downed. At the same time, a loud explosion was heard in al-Kiswah, resulting in the blackout of Israeli positions in the area.



https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/12/09/seven-days-of-failures-for-the-american-empire/

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1137 on: December 10, 2018, 12:27:47 PM »
On November 30, following almost two-and-a-half months of silence, the Israeli air force bombed Syria with three waves of cruise missiles. The first and second waves were repulsed over southern Syria, and the third, composed of surface-to-surface missiles, were also downed. At the same time, a loud explosion was heard in al-Kiswah, resulting in the blackout of Israeli positions in the area.
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/12/09/seven-days-of-failures-for-the-american-empire/

The only item which showed on a quick search was this
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Syrian-regime-and-allies-downplay-airstrikes-after-wild-night-in-Damascus-573219

Saying nothing happened. There's nothing on sputnik.
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

kassy

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1138 on: December 10, 2018, 01:56:46 PM »
We came through the cold war ok while a species lost is lost forever.

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1139 on: December 11, 2018, 10:49:32 PM »
Revealing the "exceptional" mindset that fuels Empire: Gallup inspects the beliefs of the people of the USA

"Three-fourths (75%) of Americans today think the United States has "a special responsibility to be the leading nation in world affairs," up from 66% in 2010. The surge is driven by Democrats, whose belief in this idea has increased from 61% eight years ago to 81% now."

Empire will not fall until illusions of empire are dispelled.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245075/democrats-lead-surge-belief-world-leader.aspx

sidd

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1140 on: December 12, 2018, 06:01:36 AM »
sidd
That poll is both unexpected and disturbing.
I haven't been south of the border for ~10 years and had dared to believe that Americans were becoming more rational.
Continuous propaganda from all sides is apparently having an accumulative effect where each year's lies and distortions add to past accretions. The more aged they become, the further out of step they are with the rest of the world.
Being out of step with the vast majority may not equate with being wrong, but when it doesn't this reveals a problem inherent in democracy.

International polls in 2013 and 2017 show that the world views America in a much different light, with the citizens of her own allies viewing America as the greatest threat to world peace.
In 2013 13% of Americans recognized their own country as a greater threat to world peace than the 5% who saw China in this light, and the 3% who feared Russia as most threatening.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/polls-u-s-is-the-greatest-threat-to-peace-in-the-world-today/5603342

As one who hobnobs with both Biden's Dregs & Hillary's Deplorables, do you feel that their mindset is being captured in this latest poll? Have their life experiences been such that as they age they are increasingly convinced that America deserves her Greatest Country Label?

Never trust anyone Americans over 30 35.
Terry




sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1141 on: December 12, 2018, 06:32:04 AM »
The kids are figuring it out, but slowly. From the gallup article:

"However, the percentage of younger Americans who hold that view has dropped significantly. In 2010, 80% of those aged 18 to 34 said the United States was the greatest country, but that has dropped to 62% now, while the views of those 35 and older have changed little."

sidd

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1142 on: December 12, 2018, 06:48:51 AM »
O, my. Empire will have to respond to this. Can't have open heresy on the border. Perhaps time for some sweet, sweet liberty and freedom assassination down mexico way.

In an echo of Proudhon, newly elect president of Mexico:

"Privatization is Theft"

"how have Mexicans benefited from the privatization of the telecommunications system?"

"What social benefits has the media monopoly conferred — other than to its direct beneficiaries, who have amassed tremendous wealth ..."
 
"What have we gained through the privatization of [Mexican state railroad company] Ferrocarriles Nacionales  ..."

"How have we benefited from the leasing out of 240 million acres, 40 percent of the country (Mexico has 482 million acres total) for the extraction of gold, silver, and copper? "

" ... in the past thirty years we’ve failed to advance. To the contrary, in terms of economic growth we’ve fallen behind even an impoverished country like Haiti. "

"We must ensure that the democratic state, through legal means, distributes Mexico’s wealth equitably, subject to the premise that equal treatment cannot exist without equal access, and that justice consists of giving more to he or she who has less."

He mentions a dictator whose reign ended in revolution, Porfirio Diaz. I am reminded of a Diaz quote: "So far from God, so close to the United States."

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/12/amlo-inauguration-new-hope-mexico-excerpt

sidd


Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1143 on: December 13, 2018, 11:05:01 AM »
A Canadian businessman who was said to be missing has been arrested in China on suspicion of harming state security, Beijing has confirmed. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang told reports on Thursday that Michael Spavor had been arrested, following widespread speculation about his whereabouts.

His detention comes just two days after former Canadian diplomat Michael Kovrig was arrested for similar charges related to threatening state security. Both cases are currently under investigation, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said.

Spavor, who heads a company that brings tourists and athletes to North Korea and is one of the few westerners to have met with Kim Jong-un, disappeared shortly after informing Canadian officials that he had been questioned by Chinese authorities.

American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

Lurk

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1144 on: December 15, 2018, 06:07:59 AM »
The real reason Western media & CIA turned against Saudi MBS
Darius Shahtahmasebi is a New Zealand-based legal and political analyst,

Extracts:
Forces are aligning against Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince, lead by elements within the CIA and strong players in the mainstream media. But what is really behind this deterioration in relationship, and what are its implications?
---
Even shadowy think-tanks like the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and the Atlantic Council released articles criticising Saudi Arabia in the wake of Khashoggi’s death.
---
 Let’s just bear in mind that western media had spent years investing in a heavy PR campaign to paint MBS as a “reformer.”
---
One will observe that the latter segment of Rice’s article almost mirrors former CIA director Brennan’s word on MSNBC word for word who stated that:

“I think ultimately this is going to come out. And it’s very important for us to maintain the relations with Saudi Arabia. And if it’s Mohammed bin Salman who’s the cancer here, well, we need to be able to find ways to eliminate the cancer and to move forward with this relationship that is critical to regional stability and our national interests.”

You see, the problem with MBS isn’t that he is a mass murdering war criminal, it is that he is too “independent” for the United States’ liking.
---
Saudi Arabia (and MBS in particular) is learning for themselves quite quickly that, ultimately, it may pay not to have all its eggs in one geopolitical superpower basket.

The economic threat that an “independent” Saudi Arabia under MBS’ leadership poses to Washington runs deeper than meets the eye and may indeed have a domino effect. According to CNN, Russia and Saudi Arabia “are engaged in an intense battle over who will be the top supplier to China, a major energy importer with an insatiable appetite for crude.”

---
The economic threat that an “independent” Saudi Arabia under MBS’ leadership poses to Washington runs deeper than meets the eye and may indeed have a domino effect. According to CNN, Russia and Saudi Arabia “are engaged in an intense battle over who will be the top supplier to China, a major energy importer with an insatiable appetite for crude.”

If Saudi Arabia jumps on board China’s petro-yuan, the rest of OPEC will eventually follow, and the US might be left with no choice but to declare all of these countries in need of some vital freedom and democracy.

Therefore, ousting MBS and replacing him with a Crown Prince who doesn’t stray too far from the tree that is US imperialism may put a dent in pending relationships with Saudi Arabia and Washington’s adversaries, Russia and China.

Once we get over the certainty that the US media and the CIA are not against MBS for his long-list of human rights abuses, the question then becomes: why – why now, and in this manner, have they decided to put the spotlight on MBS and expose him exactly for what he is.

Clearly, the driving force behind this media outrage is a bit more complex than first meets the eye.

Complete article is here:
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/446470-saudi-arabia-mbs-cia/

Who is Darius Shahtahmasebi?
https://theantimedia.com/author/dariuss1/
https://twitter.com/tvsleaking?lang=en
https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/author/3307/darius-shahtahmasebi/

The Anti-Media Media
https://theantimedia.com/
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!