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Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1000 on: October 25, 2018, 12:47:00 AM »
I think that Vladimir Putin at Valdai not at all incidentally started talking about the increased danger of nuclear war, repeated the axiom about the readiness of Russia to take away the whole world with itself, and discussed the existence of the right to make a preventive strike.Concerning the latter issue experts immediately started a discussion about whether or not the president of Russia meant a nuclear preventive strike, and if yes, then how does it correlate with his statement about not being the first to strike a nuclear blow.

We will answer this momentarily.

Firstly, it does match, since a preventive strike is considered by international law as a response to aggression that became already inevitable. You, however, need to prove that the aggression was inevitable. But it is unlikely that someone will be interested in proof after nuclear war. The one who wins will be the one who survives, and not many will survive (if any survive at all). And it will be individuals and/or communities, and not states or international organisations. So if the Russian leadership receives information about the inevitability in the next few hours of a massive nuclear attack on Russia, it has the right (and is even obliged) to strike a preventive nuclear blow, and this doesn’t mean being the first to use a nuclear weapon.
Read more at:
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/24/striking-a-strategic-balance-putins-preventive-response/

Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1001 on: October 25, 2018, 12:51:04 AM »
It is difficult to overstate the criminality and recklessness of this action. The lives of billions of people in Europe and East Asia have been deliberately placed in the crossfire of Washington’s nuclear buildup against Beijing and Moscow.

American military planners are intent on not only building, but using, nuclear weapons in combat. They aim to demonstrate to their potential adversaries that no humanitarian or moral constraints exist for them, and that Washington out-does its rivals not just in weapons, but in bloodlust.

These plans are being laid in secret. The New York Times has treated the US withdrawal from the treaty as a non-issue. It was not even front-page news, and the newspaper published no editorial or columns about it. Nor was it discussed on the Sunday talk shows.

The Democrats have been almost entirely silent on the consequences, and the danger of global war—or any opposition to war—has been excluded as an issue from the 2018 midterm elections, just two weeks away.

In the foreign policy press and the publications of think tanks, however, nuclear war is a preeminent issue. Even before the White House’s announcement, Foreign Affairs dedicated its current issue to a discussion of nuclear war, with its cover featuring a missile launch.

The rest at:
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/24/us-missile-treaty-withdrawal-prepare-for-nuclear-war/

vox_mundi

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1002 on: October 25, 2018, 09:56:38 PM »
Using the 1918 pandemic is a bit of cherry picking. It was by far the most deadly pandemic and especially deadly to healthy adults which are normally a group with low fatalities.
- Not the most deadly pandemic - see Black Death

- So let the young ones live; Older adults are more likely to have life insurance policies
 
Quote
Basically you should look at the rates of all historical pandemics and you have a much lower number.
Or higher.

Black Death/Plague - 1347 - 30-60% Mortality
Smallpox - 30% Mortality
Ebola - 50 % Mortality

More likely they will declare force majeure, keep the money, and announce a dividend increase to the shareholders. Policy holders be damned.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 10:30:02 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1003 on: October 26, 2018, 08:26:51 PM »
Allies drift away: Japan makes overtures to China

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-45989353

sidd

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1004 on: October 26, 2018, 09:07:41 PM »
Aging Saud king ? Check. Upstart prince ? Check. War in Yemen ? Check.

2018 ? No, 1964. Then the UK backed a coup deposing the king and installing the Crown Prince.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/will-us-and-uk-seek-palace-coup-remove-saudi-leader-932532708

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sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1005 on: October 29, 2018, 10:45:20 PM »
Lyle Rubin at truthdig interview by Scheer :

" The problem with veterans is we keep remembering our wars when we are supposed to join everyone else in forgetting them. "

" amongst those people that are allowed on TV or allowed on the most popular venues, media venues, most of them buy into this idea I like to think of it as kind of like hegemony of American righteousness that America makes mistakes, they do things that are wrong in retrospect, but overall America is the good guy. And as long as you keep on believing that, then you’re going to be inclined to continue to support America’s foreign policy and their wars and their arms dealings and all the rest. "

"But, the whole idea of winning hearts and minds, they believed that. It was in their interest to believe it, because if they stopped believing it, it would be harder for them to do their job. It would be harder for them to make it up the ranks. I think there’s the same kind of psychology that exists in the media world. I think it’s a lot easier for media people, both Democratic Party media and Republican Party media to believe the lies that their government tells them, than it is to not believe those lies."

"I don’t think it’s a mistake that the rise of the American military industrial complex has emerged simultaneously with the rise of the carceral state, mass incarceration, police violence, overall economic violence, radical inequality. "

"I think it’s this, again, this idea of American righteousness, this idea that America is the leader of the free world and in order to bear that fact out, it must continually apply violence in the rest of the world to secure that freedom."

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/some-of-our-biggest-cheerleaders-for-war-are-not-who-you-think/

Rubin has an article at the nation on this theme, exposing the cheerleaders of the forever wars:

"There is something surreal about watching so many Democrats and liberal or progressive pundits adopt the ugliest rhetorical tics of the very post-9/11 chauvinism I once found myself immersed in, from seeing anyone or anything inconvenient to the presiding account as fifth-columnist to treating the utterances of spies and other military-industrial propagandists as gospel. "

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-forever-wars-cheerleaders/

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sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1006 on: October 30, 2018, 01:18:01 AM »
Coming home to roost:

"The people traveling to the United States are searching for a better life, in part because United States has made life in their own countries demonstrably worse."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/10/29/american-policy-is-responsible-migrant-caravan/

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1007 on: October 30, 2018, 10:06:48 PM »
Sjursen at antiwar on the limits of power and the myth of magical soldiers:

"the mere presence of a few hundred or thousand American troops can alter societies, vanquish the wicked, and remake the world. "

"take any unstable Muslim country that has any presence of Islamists at all; drop in a few thousand US Army advisors, trainers, or combat troops; stay indefinitely – and loudly proclaim that if ever those soldiers should leave said Muslim country it will undoubtedly collapse and the US of A will be directly threatened. "

"It. Has. Yet. To. Work."

"We’re assured that just a bit more airpower, a smidgen more commando raids, and a few more military advisors will turn the tide, stabilize the unstable, and ensure American security. The problem is this: in each case, no one seems able to articulate an exit strategy. That’s because there is none! "

"Should they leave (any of these various locales) we’re told that chaos and transnational terror will explode in the region and in American cities. If that’s not a formula for perpetual war, then I don’t know what is!"

"The truth is the war for the Greater Middle East is over. America already lost  ..."

https://original.antiwar.com/Danny_Sjursen/2018/10/29/the-limits-of-power-the-myth-of-the-magical-american-soldier/

Sjursen should consult Astore who also writes at tomdispatch and points out that the Pentagon is winning the war that matters: I posted that reference in another thread:

"The losers in those wars have seized control of our national narrative. They now define how the military is seen (as an investment, a boon, a good and great thing); they now shape how we view our wars abroad (as regrettable perhaps, but necessary and also a sign of national toughness); they now assign all serious criticism of the Pentagon to what they might term the defeatist fringe."

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2204.msg178376.html#msg178376
http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176487/

sidd



Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1008 on: November 02, 2018, 09:25:48 AM »
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176490/tomgram%3A_william_hartung%2C_the_pentagon%27s_plan_to_dominate_the_economy/#more

Back in the mid-1990s, I wrote the following in my book The End of Victory Culture, with memories of the American world of my 1940s and 1950s childhood in mind:

“The worlds of the warrior and of abundance were, to my gaze, no more antithetical than they were to the corporate executives, university research scientists, and military officers who were using a rising military budget and the fear of communism to create a new national security economy.  An alliance between big industry, big science, and the military had been forged during World War II.  This alliance had blurred the boundaries between the military and the civilian by fusing a double set of desires: for technological breakthroughs leading to ever more instant weapons of destruction and to ever easier living.  The arms race and the race for the good life were now to be put on the same ‘war’ footing...

“In the 1950s... a ‘military Keynesianism’ drove the U.S. economy toward a consumerism in which desire for the ever larger car and missile, electric range and tank, television console and submarine, was wedded in single corporate entities.  The companies... producing the large objects for the American home were also major contractors developing the weapons systems ushering the Pentagon into its own age of abundance.”

And here’s the curious thing: almost a quarter of a century after I wrote those words, in a second gilded age in which a billionaire occupies the Oval Office (thanks, in part, to the fact that so many Americans no longer feel like they’re part of an age of abundance), the Pentagon has been thriving, big time.  If anything, both parties in Washington have doubled down on military Keynesianism in the twenty-first century and, as TomDispatch regular and Pentagon expert William Hartung writes today, it looks as if the Trump years, despite possible modest cuts in the Pentagon budget, will continue to be a gilded age for the U.S. military.  After all, if the president’s team has anything to say about it, ever more of the American economy will be run through the military-industrial complex.

One question, though, about this latest version of an age of abundance: Given our president’s fatal touch (from casinos to hotels, airlines to universities, magazines to steaks and even vodka), might it, in the end, prove to be an age of militarized bankruptcy as well?  Tom


sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1009 on: November 04, 2018, 11:18:46 PM »
Bolton wont be happy: Dominican republic moves embassy from taiwan to china

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2171534/dominican-republic-opens-new-embassy-mainland-china-after

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sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1010 on: November 05, 2018, 12:29:42 AM »

litesong

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1011 on: November 05, 2018, 04:09:49 AM »
Koreas move closer to peace
If the U.S. left S. Korea, Kim would unite the Koreas as a dictatorship.... no more SK Holdings, Samsung, Hyundai, Kia, LG Electronics, or S. Korean economy.... probably a lot less former S. Korean citizens. 

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1012 on: November 07, 2018, 11:27:59 PM »
Power to tax is fundamental to satrapy, and the US puppet government in Afghanistan is losing that power

"Mohammaddin visits a tax collector in Chardara district, in northern Afghanistan, and is given receipts to show he has paid his tax and utility bills ...The service is professional ..."

 “Given the strictness of Taliban regarding implementation of their rules and regulations, I think they raise more from tax collection than the Afghan government,”

"The Taliban has tended to take over two traditional Islamic levies: zakat, an obligation on Muslims to donate 2.5 percent of their income to the poor; and ushur, a 10 percent tax on harvests or produce taken to market.

In addition, electricity and mobile phone bills, which the insurgents collect in return for leaving power pylons and phone masts alone, and small levies on businesses selling daily necessities such as bakeries or flour mills, weave Taliban authority firmly into everyday life. "

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-taliban-finance/taliban-tax-collectors-help-tighten-insurgents-grip-in-afghanistan-idUSKCN1NB19Y

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sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1013 on: November 10, 2018, 01:00:31 AM »
Can't trust those French, another ally drifts away: Macron calls for european army to protect against, among others, the USA; warms to Russia

“We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/09/trump-macron-european-army-paris-981759

" ... engaging Moscow in a “strategic partnership,” including in military matters. The French leader, who sees Russia as indispensable to stabilizing the Middle East ..."

https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-victory-parade-in-paris/

sidd


Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1014 on: November 12, 2018, 09:55:05 AM »
“War” is when there is rebellion. War is when the people of plundered countries say “No!”. War is when they suddenly refuse to be raped, robbed, indoctrinated and murdered.

When such a scenario takes place the West’s immediate reaction ‘to restore peace’ is to overthrow the government in the country which is trying to take care of its people. To bomb schools and hospitals, to destroy supply of fresh water and electricity and to throw millions into total misery and agony.

As the West may soon do to North Korea (DPRK), to Cuba, Venezuela, Iran – some of the countries that are being, for now, ‘only’ tormented by sanctions and, foreign -sponsored, deadly “opposition”. In the Western lexicon, “peace” is synonymous to “submission”. To a total, unconditional submission. Anything else is war or could potentially lead to war.

For the oppressed, devastated countries, including those in Africa, to call for resistance, would be, at least in the Western lexicon, synonymous with the “call for violence”, therefore illegal. As ‘illegal’ as the calls were for resistance in the countries occupied by German Nazi forces during the WWII. It would be, therefore, logical to call the Western approach and state of mind, “fundamentalist”, and thoroughly aggressive.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/11/09/peace-is-a-cliche-when-the-west-cannot-control-the-world-unopposed-it-means-war-2/

mostly_lurking

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1015 on: November 12, 2018, 12:26:44 PM »
I think almost everyone here would agree that the following things are serious issues, and if they could be solved once and for all, the whole world would be a much better place and safer place for everyone.

1)...snip

It's that simple, really it is.

Wow, that's some tall order and I suspect it goes against human nature in so many ways. This is basically calling for a one world government (no matter what you call it) that will impose "rules".
I'm not saying that many of those issues are wrong- actually many are great outcomes to aspire to BUT having them achieved by outside forces will not work. It's almost like the west trying to enforce democracy on the Islamic nations on in Africa - IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

magnamentis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1016 on: November 12, 2018, 07:47:03 PM »
I think almost everyone here would agree that the following things are serious issues, and if they could be solved once and for all, the whole world would be a much better place and safer place for everyone.

sniped

It's that simple, really it is.

only that the majority of those tasks are NOT easy but something between DIFFICULT and IMPOSSIBlLE without the use of major force which contradicts some of the points.

even though i agree that those are the points that should be resolved, to call them easy to do is an illusion and illusions have been root to so many of those exact problems that i can only say:

i know what you're trying to say  but things take their time and have to go through proper painful processes. nothing in the entire universe comes from smooth transistions but is and was undergoing destructive process to emerge in new beauty, quality and glory.
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mostly_lurking

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1017 on: November 13, 2018, 10:10:45 AM »
...snip

Maybe Macron is right on the money - and what Europe needs to be self-responsible and so stand for their own values and replace NATO with a defense approach that represents the true values and principles of the European people rather than one which represents a delusional bunch of foreigners (who know next to nothing about the world) but who would elect a Donald Trump Reality TV star to high office - the people did that, not Trump. 


Maybe , but then they will have SO much less money to spend on their "European principles and values".


mostly_lurking

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1018 on: November 13, 2018, 10:55:08 AM »
..snip
Not if they stop getting drawn into regime change adventures by the US and having to use NATO to dig the US out of a political hole it dug in Afghanistan due to it's incompetence in military ops and repairing the nation it invaded based on anger and revenge instead of wiser responses?

I mean, it was not the Taliban nor the Taliban led Govt that attacked the USA on 9/11. In fact they said, show us the evidence and we will happily capture OBL and Al Queda ranks for you and hand him and them over on a sliver platter. 17 years later and counting, it's not officially a US war anymore, it's NATOs and the UNs.

Oh I agree 100% on the waste of life and money spent on useless wars. As far as money the Europeans spend waste on it- I'm not so sure- Trump did have a point when he claimed that European countries do not contribute what they agreed to and the US puts up most of the money.

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2018_07/20180709_180710-pr2018-91-en.pdf


Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1019 on: November 13, 2018, 09:08:07 PM »
We have been conditioned since our formative years to believe that we live in the world’s greatest democracy. Our Republic, it is said, is one that represents the will of the American people and runs by the consent of the public. Yet, as time elapses and we keep witnessing the dysfunction of our government, more and more people are realizing that we are living in a kleptocracy where the influence of the wealthy outweighs the will of the people.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/11/13/demorats-and-epublicans-representative-democracy-in-propaganda-only/

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1020 on: November 15, 2018, 11:15:47 PM »
Satrap bought with gold: China steps in to finance Pakistan

" “The financial support package for Pakistan is currently being worked out … it will be more than what extended by Saudi Arabia in terms of financial grant,” Deputy Head of Mission at Chinese Embassy Zhao Lijian told a select group of reporters  ..."

https://dailytimes.com.pk/322366/china-to-give-pakistan-aid-package-bigger-than-saudi-arabias-envoy/

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1021 on: November 16, 2018, 05:47:51 AM »
Meanwhile, at home, the generals finally admit losing track of the money. First ever audit of the Pentagon (they were described as "unauditable" decades ago by the GAO) results in failure

"We failed the audit, but we never expected to pass it"

The Onion could have written this.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/416963-pentagon-fails-first-ever-audit

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1022 on: November 22, 2018, 09:15:49 PM »

bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1023 on: November 22, 2018, 11:38:35 PM »

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1024 on: November 25, 2018, 09:08:50 PM »
Scahill interviews Harcourt on the links between foreign wars and domestic suppression:

"all of the [ways] in which we govern abroad and at home is now funneled through a particular way of thinking about the world ... the way of thinking about society is this counterinsurgency paradigm of warfare."

"we know that counterinsurgency as a way of thinking and as a way of preceding in international affairs, but also domestically, is not new to 9/11. We were engaged in counterinsurgency in Vietnam. We also, the United States, experimented with forms of counterinsurgency domestically against the Black Panthers and with the COINTEL program, et cetera. But starting in 9/11 really there was a much more systematic turn to that way of thinking and governing."

"by the time you get to mass incarceration is you know, you have literally just incapacitated, you have just knocked out this whole tranche of young, black and brown men, predominantly. The numbers are really increasing for African American and Hispanic women right now. But you’ve just knocked out this tranche which is the generally, in the United States, perceived as the internal enemy."

"You know, when I was speaking earlier about the internal enemy and referring to the Muslims and referring to the Mexicans, et cetera, of course, also African American protesters or #BlackLivesMatter folks fit in that category, "

"The use of drones in a place like Pakistan is no longer a military engagement. It’s foreign policy, right. Now we’re conducting our foreign policy with this counterinsurgency mentality."

"Or when you bring it onto American soil and you all of a sudden use a drone to assassinate a target effectively, a suspect, you’ve domesticated this way of thinking and you’ve blurred the lines in such a way that we don’t really think about questions of self-defense anymore because now we’re thinking through a military prism. We’re thinking through a counterinsurgency prism."

"you are identifying some real differences that Trump presents in policy, and style, and tactic from Obama but that the core strategy, that you document the history of it in your book, is in place whether you have a third term of Obama or a first term of Trump."

"you look at the U.S. military you look at the intelligence budget, you look at surveillance capabilities, the leadership of the Democratic Party is consistently backing Trump in expanding all of these things despite the fact that they say he’s such a threat to our democratic process in this country. "

"the Chuck Schumer’s of the world are going to be whipping up those votes to make sure that the military gets its record breaking budget again or that the president has these surveillance capabilities."

https://theintercept.com/2018/11/25/counterinsurgency-us-drone-strikes/

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Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1025 on: November 26, 2018, 10:46:59 AM »
The policy of the US establishment towards Lebanon is evidently changing and unstable, with a President who lacks general knowledge about the Middle East and above all of Hezbollah’s role in the region. It seems President Donald Trump is willing to reduce military support to the Lebanese Army and to impose further sanctions on Lebanon, unaware that he is thereby strengthening the Axis of Resistance and throwing the country of the Cedars into the arms of Russia and Iran. While the US is imposing further sanctions on Hezbollah, in the last few months its European partners have held secret meetings with that Organisation’s leaders during the visits of their official delegations to Beirut.
The US is gradually losing its hegemony in the Middle East. In Iraq, the “Islamic State” (ISIS) grew under the watchful and complaisant eyes of the US establishment in the first months of its occupation of Mosul in June 2014. Washington considered ISIS a strategic asset, oblivious to how this unscrupulous policy would backfire against its interests in the Middle East. The policy alienated Europe but above all the people of the Middle East, especially those minorities who suffered grievously under ISIS tyranny. This ruthless US policy triggered the creation of Hashd al-Shaa’bi (the Popular Mobilisation Forces). This force has now become an essential member of the “Axis of the Resistance” which rejects US hegemony and espouses an ideology of independence with objectives similar to those of Iran and Hezbollah. These national forces are generally unfriendly towards Israel and the presence of US forces in Mesopotamia.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/11/25/hezbollah-in-lebanon-us-hegemony-is-over/

Red

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1026 on: November 30, 2018, 12:03:14 PM »
Mean while back at the ranch.....
The DNA Industry and the Disappearing Indian
DNA, Race, and Native Rights
By Aviva Chomsky

Amid the barrage of racist, anti-immigrant, and other attacks launched by President Trump and his administration in recent months, a series of little noted steps have threatened Native American land rights and sovereignty. Such attacks have focused on tribal sovereignty, the Indian Child Welfare Act (ICWA), and the voting rights of Native Americans, and they have come from Washington, the courts, and a state legislature. What they share is a single conceptual framework: the idea that the long history that has shaped U.S.-Native American relations has no relevance to today’s realities.

Meanwhile, in an apparently unrelated event, Senator Elizabeth Warren, egged on by Donald Trump’s “Pocahontas” taunts and his mocking of her claims to native ancestry, triumphantly touted her DNA results to “prove” her Native American heritage. In turning to the burgeoning, for-profit DNA industry, however, she implicitly lent her progressive weight to claims about race and identity that go hand in hand with moves to undermine Native sovereignty.

The DNA industry has, in fact, found a way to profit from reviving and modernizing antiquated ideas about the biological origins of race and repackaging them in a cheerful, Disneyfied wrapping. While it’s true that the it’s-a-small-world-after-all multiculturalism of the new racial science rejects nineteenth-century scientific racism and Social Darwinism, it is offering a twenty-first-century version of pseudoscience that once again reduces race to a matter of genetics and origins. In the process, the corporate-promoted ancestry fad conveniently manages to erase the histories of conquest, colonization, and exploitation that created not just racial inequality but race itself as a crucial category in the modern world.

Today’s policy attacks on Native rights reproduce the same misunderstandings of race that the DNA industry is now so assiduously promoting. If Native Americans are reduced to little more than another genetic variation, there is no need for laws that acknowledge their land rights, treaty rights, and sovereignty. Nor must any thought be given to how to compensate for past harms, not to speak of the present ones that still structure their realities. A genetic understanding of race distorts such policies into unfair “privileges” offered to a racially defined group and so “discrimination” against non-Natives. This is precisely the logic behind recent rulings that have denied Mashpee tribal land rights in Massachusetts, dismantled the Indian Child Welfare Act (a law aimed at preventing the removal of Native American children from their families or communities), and attempted to suppress Native voting rights in North Dakota.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176501/tomgram%3A_aviva_chomsky%2C_making_native_americans_strangers_in_their_own_land/#more

Rob Dekker

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1027 on: December 01, 2018, 09:32:46 AM »
Bush senior passed away today. Age 94.

See here the response from Obama.
Dignified and honorable, even though they disagreed on many issues :



This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1028 on: December 01, 2018, 11:19:41 AM »
flight 655
"I will never apologize for the United States — I don't care what the facts are. ... I'm not an apologize-for-America kind of guy."


Neven

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1029 on: December 01, 2018, 12:00:14 PM »
Bush senior passed away today. Age 94.

See here the response from Obama.
Dignified and honorable, even though they disagreed on many issues :



It's a big club...

Doesn't this stuff make you nauseous, Rob? I mean, Obama doesn't necessarily have to dump on the guy because he was a war criminal and a thief, but this borders on necrophilia.

Anyway, you posted it in the right thread. Thanks for that.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1030 on: December 01, 2018, 12:58:43 PM »
It's amazing when you look at past presidents and consider all the atrocities they've committed in the name of imperialism.  And each president just gets worse and worse (although nothing compares to the era of Kissinger). HW isn't even that bad compared to the 21st century presidents.
Trump hasn't even got his war yet. The violence in Syria and Yemen are hand-me-downs from the Obama administration. Trump knows he can do better than what Obama did to Libya.

Just imagine what the impressionable smooth-brained trump and his psychotic Security Advisor Bolton are capable of. Especially with a frothing xenophobic republican base, and the "pragmatic centrists" like Dekker happily towing the western imperialist line.

We need to stop lionizing people like H.W. & McCain and instead use their deaths as a reminder for the horrible acts committed by their administrations, so that hopefully one day we can stop this seemingly endless cycle of violence and destruction. 

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1031 on: December 01, 2018, 08:54:51 PM »
Prescott Bush wasn't only a monster, he sired a monster who sired a monster.


How many hundreds of millions would have survived if Prescott hadn't financed Hitler.
How many millions around the world would be alive if "Poppy's" fellow fliers had done the right thing and tossed him overboard when he survived "the smell of smoke in the cabin", by ditching his airplane and murdering the rest of his crew.


A friend who served on an aircraft carrier in the Pacific assures me that "tripped and fell overboard" was the normal fate for those who literally bailed out on their helpless buddies.


Prescott's gone, now Poppy (think of those Afghan poppy fields producing the world's heroin) has joined him. A pox on their whole damn tribe.


Sometimes I wish I was religious.
Terry

NevB

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1032 on: December 02, 2018, 11:30:58 AM »
Bush senior passed away today. Age 94.

See here the response from Obama.
Dignified and honorable, even though they disagreed on many issues :



It's a big club...

Doesn't this stuff make you nauseous, Rob? I mean, Obama doesn't necessarily have to dump on the guy because he was a war criminal and a thief, but this borders on necrophilia.

Anyway, you posted it in the right thread. Thanks for that.

I read that as an attempt to build a bridge to the not so extreme republicans, nauseating yes but if this helps to gather a few more votes to help with the 2020 campaign what's the real harm vs gain ?

 

Rob Dekker

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1033 on: December 03, 2018, 09:25:37 AM »
Bush senior passed away today. Age 94.

See here the response from Obama.
Dignified and honorable, even though they disagreed on many issues :



It's a big club...

Doesn't this stuff make you nauseous, Rob? I mean, Obama doesn't necessarily have to dump on the guy because he was a war criminal and a thief, but this borders on necrophilia.

Anyway, you posted it in the right thread. Thanks for that.

No, Neven.
I do not think Obama's response is nauseating at all.
In fact, it is dignified, and respectful and accurate.

Even though Obama and Bush differed in opinion about just about everything else (which was not mentioned).

In fact, it shows how people can differ in opinion, but still respect each other. And not wish them dead long ago as some here do.

And where is your evidence that Bush senior was a "war criminal and a thief" ?

Because it's pretty nauseating to make such claims while his body is still warm. 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 10:28:41 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1034 on: December 03, 2018, 09:47:14 AM »
It's amazing when you look at past presidents and consider all the atrocities they've committed in the name of imperialism.  And each president just gets worse and worse (although nothing compares to the era of Kissinger). HW isn't even that bad compared to the 21st century presidents.
Trump hasn't even got his war yet. The violence in Syria and Yemen are hand-me-downs from the Obama administration. Trump knows he can do better than what Obama did to Libya.

Just imagine what the impressionable smooth-brained trump and his psychotic Security Advisor Bolton are capable of. Especially with a frothing xenophobic republican base, and the "pragmatic centrists" like Dekker happily towing the western imperialist line.

We need to stop lionizing people like H.W. & McCain and instead use their deaths as a reminder for the horrible acts committed by their administrations, so that hopefully one day we can stop this seemingly endless cycle of violence and destruction.
blah blah blah *vitriol vitriol vitriol* if you hate Western imperialism so much go move to the developing world and see how long you last and how much you enjoy it.

zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1035 on: December 03, 2018, 01:52:39 PM »
Bush senior passed away today. Age 94.

See here the response from Obama.
Dignified and honorable, even though they disagreed on many issues :



It's a big club...

Doesn't this stuff make you nauseous, Rob? I mean, Obama doesn't necessarily have to dump on the guy because he was a war criminal and a thief, but this borders on necrophilia.

Anyway, you posted it in the right thread. Thanks for that.

No, Neven.
I do not think Obama's response is nauseating at all.
In fact, it is dignified, and respectful and accurate.

Even though Obama and Bush differed in opinion about just about everything else (which was not mentioned).

In fact, it shows how people can differ in opinion, but still respect each other. And not wish them dead long ago as some here do.

And where is your evidence that Bush senior was a "war criminal and a thief" ?

Because it's pretty nauseating to make such claims while his body is still warm.



Fill in the blanks Rob. Highway of ______

zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1036 on: December 03, 2018, 02:07:20 PM »
blah blah blah *vitriol vitriol vitriol* if you hate Western imperialism so much go move to the developing world and see how long you last and how much you enjoy it.
Is this satire?

Are you asking me to move to a developing country, to teach me a lesson on imperialism? But, just so we're clear, so I would shut up about imperialism?

I dunno about you. But if I firsthand experienced the open slave markets in Libya,the disfigured depleted-uranium children in Iraq, the white phosphorous scarred people of Baghdad, the religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan, the victims of agent orange in Vietnam, the fascists in Ukraine, the child miners of Congo; I would say to myself, maybe I should criticize the structures and decisions that led to this horrible suffering.

But you.... "see this? You little punk? How about you shut your mouth and enjoy what you have. Don't rock the fucking boat. Or you'll end up in the pits just like the rest of them"

zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1037 on: December 03, 2018, 02:12:28 PM »
Rob, just out of curiosity, do you think the downing of MH17 is a war crime??

ASILurker

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1038 on: December 03, 2018, 02:43:48 PM »
PPS Chomsky, the South African Apartheid Analogy question.

26:25
"You know there are a lot of analogies drawn between Israel and South Africa. Most of them I think are extremely dubious, but there's one analogy which I think is correct and it's almost never discussed it's this:

We know from internal documents that in 1958 the Nationalist government the apartheid government of South Africa recognized that it was beginning to become a international pariah. The Foreign Minister of South Africa called in the American ambassador to discuss it with him and said in effect that we're becoming an international pariah. Everyone's voting against us in the United Nations but we know, you and I know that there's only ONE vote in the United Nations, YOURS.

The way he put it is; you're the leaders of the free world, meaning you run the world. So the effect is saying, as long as you support us, we don't care if the world's against us.

Now if you look at what happened in the subsequent years that's pretty much what happened. The U.S. continued to support the nationalist regime, it supported South African depredations against Angola, Mozambique, which were brutal and murderous. This went on right through the Reagan years (with GHW Bush as VP). By the end of the Reagan years the United States was actually the only country, that made a difference, that was still supporting South Africa - an apartheid state right.

A couple years later the United States did join the world (eventually, last as usual) and abandon support for the apartheid regime and it collapsed. Now that was not the only reason, but it was a (big) reason.

There's another reason which doesn't that much carry over I think to the Israel-Palestine question but there was another factor that doctrine in the United States prevents us from attending to, namely Cuba!

Cuba [materially backed by the USSR] played a huge role in the liberation of Africa. Cuba sent soldiers to drive the South African invaders out of Angola. It compelled South Africa to abandon its illegal hold on Namibia. It made it very clear to the South Africans. The Cuban force did that. They were not going to be able to establish the kind of regional support system by violence that they hoped this would."


[Unlike what Israel has been able to achieve via knee capping Egypt, the radical Islamist Saudis and Gulf States, and Jordan on side, Lebanon actions, removal of Saddam in Iraq, the isolation and then the externally driven implosion in Syria has delivered, and having Iran utterly alienated and locked down with sanctions.]

"In fact the Cuban roll in liberation of Africa was altogether enormous and it's pretty remarkable because Cuba never took credit for it. They wanted credit to be taken by the black Africans themselves. So it's a kind of a hidden history except that it has been exposed in scholar and scholarship.

When Nelson Mandela was finally let out of prison about his first acts were to praise Cuba and Fidel Castro for liberating South Africa. If you go to Pretoria the capital there's a monument for the people who died in the struggle against Apartheid South Africa. Lots of Cuban names. THEY UNDERSTAND! We're not supposed to talk about it.

This is among the things that, kind of like, didn't happen in our doctrinal system but it happened in the real world. And in the case of Israel Palestine, there's no 'Cuba'. So the responsibility for our shifting US policy is even greater. And it can be done. I don't think it's finished by any means."


with a massive loud applause by the thousands there present.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 02:51:48 PM by Lurk »

bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1039 on: December 03, 2018, 07:11:07 PM »
blah blah blah *vitriol vitriol vitriol* if you hate Western imperialism so much go move to the developing world and see how long you last and how much you enjoy it.
Is this satire?

Are you asking me to move to a developing country, to teach me a lesson on imperialism? But, just so we're clear, so I would shut up about imperialism?

I dunno about you. But if I firsthand experienced the open slave markets in Libya,the disfigured depleted-uranium children in Iraq, the white phosphorous scarred people of Baghdad, the religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan, the victims of agent orange in Vietnam, the fascists in Ukraine, the child miners of Congo; I would say to myself, maybe I should criticize the structures and decisions that led to this horrible suffering.

But you.... "see this? You little punk? How about you shut your mouth and enjoy what you have. Don't rock the fucking boat. Or you'll end up in the pits just like the rest of them"
Wow. Sounds like you were either complicit in implementing our benevolent imperialism or you have impeccably bad timing and a life of bad choices behind you.

Ukraine is not fascist FYI and it is sickening to see Lurk cloak his anti-Semitism behind a ridiculous attack on the only true democracy in the Middle East. Israel is a bastion of stability and progress and the people who think otherwise are usually the same ones that would have supported the Holocaust (seems like you have no problem with the Holodymyr either).


bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1040 on: December 03, 2018, 07:41:09 PM »
Bush senior passed away today. Age 94.

See here the response from Obama.
Dignified and honorable, even though they disagreed on many issues :



It's a big club...

Doesn't this stuff make you nauseous, Rob? I mean, Obama doesn't necessarily have to dump on the guy because he was a war criminal and a thief, but this borders on necrophilia.

Anyway, you posted it in the right thread. Thanks for that.

No, Neven.
I do not think Obama's response is nauseating at all.
In fact, it is dignified, and respectful and accurate.

Even though Obama and Bush differed in opinion about just about everything else (which was not mentioned).

In fact, it shows how people can differ in opinion, but still respect each other. And not wish them dead long ago as some here do.

And where is your evidence that Bush senior was a "war criminal and a thief" ?

Because it's pretty nauseating to make such claims while his body is still warm.



Fill in the blanks Rob. Highway of ______
You realize they invaded Kuwait to precipitate this, correct? Clearly selective amnesia is a strong point of yours...

wili

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1041 on: December 03, 2018, 09:26:00 PM »
For those interested in a nuanced approach to the history of US-Israeli relations, you could do worse than the recent book Our American Israel by Amy Kaplan-- http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674737624

One surprise to me was how supportive American anti-Semites were about the founding of a Jewish state. From their perspective, better to have all those nasty Jews go to Palestine than move into their American neighborhoods.

(Recall that even into the '70s, in many parts of the US, Jewish doctors were barred from working in most hospitals, hence the large number of 'Mt. Sinai' hospitals in so many cities...they had to set up their own hospitals to have a place to work! US has been and continues to be a very racist place, in case anyone hadn't noticed. :) )
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1042 on: December 03, 2018, 09:27:47 PM »
For those interested in a nuanced approach to the history of US-Israeli relations, you could do worse than the recent book Our American Israel by Amy Kaplan-- http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674737624

One surprise to me was how supportive American anti-Semites were about the founding of a Jewish state. From their perspective, better to have all those nasty Jews go to Palestine than move into their American neighborhoods.

(Recall that even into the '70s, in many parts of the US, Jewish doctors were barred from working in most hospitals, hence the large number of 'Mt. Sinai' hospitals in so many cities...they had to set up their own hospitals to have a place to work! US has been and continues to be a very racist place, in case anyone hadn't noticed. :) )
OK, well luckily things have changed and I would never see a doctor who wasn't Jewish. Most countries are horribly racist -- that's how poor people and lower middle classes work, which compose 90%+ of every single society regardless of where you are on the planet.

The notion that "enlightened Europeans" are somehow above this is absurd, it was the "enlightened Europeans" who murdered 6 million + Jews in cold blood only 75 years ago.

zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1043 on: December 03, 2018, 10:23:25 PM »
Wow. Sounds like you were either complicit in implementing our benevolent imperialism or you have impeccably bad timing and a life of bad choices behind you.

Ukraine is not fascist FYI and it is sickening to see Lurk cloak his anti-Semitism behind a ridiculous attack on the only true democracy in the Middle East. Israel is a bastion of stability and progress and the people who think otherwise are usually the same ones that would have supported the Holocaust (seems like you have no problem with the Holodymyr either).

haha are you for real?


You realize they invaded Kuwait to precipitate this, correct? Clearly selective amnesia is a strong point of yours...

Oh yeah, I forgot that's how war crimes work. The definitions only apply when it's convenient for us.


zizek

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1044 on: December 03, 2018, 10:24:49 PM »
<snip, leave out the personal stuff; N.>
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 11:29:14 PM by Neven »

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1045 on: December 03, 2018, 11:45:35 PM »
Jeez!


Buddy, Rob, and now bbr.


A triad of the trite who support the strong as they harangue the helpless.


They defend the indefensible, assured that the powerful have their back.
Their research is a cursory scan of the front page of an Operation Mockingbird publication. Not surprisingly the editorials, even the op-eds are in agreement. An amazing confirmation!


If their position is assailed, they may go as far as the Atlantic Council, or some other CIA or MIC approved NGO in search of verification. Confirmed Again, and this time by Acronyms, Amazing!


Very little thought is required, and absolutely no introspection. Thinking may not come easy, and might produce undesired results. Troubling results that disagree with the consensus spouted by all of the major (news)? sources.


Their thoughts are of such value that they are hoarded, hidden away 'neath the mass of drivel that the MSM has injected into their oh so willing conscious minds - if consciousness is the correct word to describe this state of binary acceptance or rejection of ideas, based solely on what a favored talking head has just intoned.


Feel free to spout your nonsense, and don't feel personally rejected when others reject your conclusions. It's not you're ideas we object to, it's the trite crap that has been planted into your mind, that you expel virtually unmolested by your own grey matter.


We've never been exposed to you're ideas.
Terry

bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1046 on: December 04, 2018, 02:40:33 AM »
Jeez!


Buddy, Rob, and now bbr.


A triad of the trite who support the strong as they harangue the helpless.


They defend the indefensible, assured that the powerful have their back.
Their research is a cursory scan of the front page of an Operation Mockingbird publication. Not surprisingly the editorials, even the op-eds are in agreement. An amazing confirmation!


If their position is assailed, they may go as far as the Atlantic Council, or some other CIA or MIC approved NGO in search of verification. Confirmed Again, and this time by Acronyms, Amazing!


Very little thought is required, and absolutely no introspection. Thinking may not come easy, and might produce undesired results. Troubling results that disagree with the consensus spouted by all of the major (news)? sources.


Their thoughts are of such value that they are hoarded, hidden away 'neath the mass of drivel that the MSM has injected into their oh so willing conscious minds - if consciousness is the correct word to describe this state of binary acceptance or rejection of ideas, based solely on what a favored talking head has just intoned.


Feel free to spout your nonsense, and don't feel personally rejected when others reject your conclusions. It's not you're ideas we object to, it's the trite crap that has been planted into your mind, that you expel virtually unmolested by your own grey matter.


We've never been exposed to you're ideas.
Terry
You seem like an angry prole who does not consider the ramifications of your idealism. Idealism does not work. Calling Ukrainians fascists and Nazis won't justify another Russian invasion, either, as they have been consistently under Russian's oppressive thumb throughout history (it seems like the Holodymyr is outright forgotten by you and many others).

It is easy to sit on the sidelines from some random place in Canada as you contribute nothing to society and kvetch about its failings. This is your fault, not society's.

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1047 on: December 04, 2018, 05:08:30 AM »
Jeez!


Buddy, Rob, and now bbr.


A triad of the trite who support the strong as they harangue the helpless.


They defend the indefensible, assured that the powerful have their back.
Their research is a cursory scan of the front page of an Operation Mockingbird publication. Not surprisingly the editorials, even the op-eds are in agreement. An amazing confirmation!


If their position is assailed, they may go as far as the Atlantic Council, or some other CIA or MIC approved NGO in search of verification. Confirmed Again, and this time by Acronyms, Amazing!


Very little thought is required, and absolutely no introspection. Thinking may not come easy, and might produce undesired results. Troubling results that disagree with the consensus spouted by all of the major (news)? sources.


Their thoughts are of such value that they are hoarded, hidden away 'neath the mass of drivel that the MSM has injected into their oh so willing conscious minds - if consciousness is the correct word to describe this state of binary acceptance or rejection of ideas, based solely on what a favored talking head has just intoned.


Feel free to spout your nonsense, and don't feel personally rejected when others reject your conclusions. It's not you're ideas we object to, it's the trite crap that has been planted into your mind, that you expel virtually unmolested by your own grey matter.


We've never been exposed to you're ideas.
Terry
You seem like an angry prole who does not consider the ramifications of your idealism. Idealism does not work. Calling Ukrainians fascists and Nazis won't justify another Russian invasion, either, as they have been consistently under Russian's oppressive thumb throughout history (it seems like the Holodymyr is outright forgotten by you and many others).

It is easy to sit on the sidelines from some random place in Canada as you contribute nothing to society and kvetch about its failings. This is your fault, not society's.


Just when did these past "Ukrainian Invasions" by Russia occur? You're surely not referencing the Allied defeat of Fascist Ukraine?


The Poles and Jews killed by order of Ukraine's hero Stepan Bandera's certainly believed they were being "exterminated" by fascists and Nazis, but perhaps their surviving relatives are just too personally involved to be rational. I'd considered the Waffen SS flags and the Swastikas they march under to be adequate proof of their affiliation, but some deny their own eyes.


I'm amazed that you're aware of my small contributions to Canadian society, congratulations on your research. There are a few however that might take issue with your conclusion that they are entirely without value. Perhaps even some still posting here who assisted by providing charts and graphs for various lectures.
I've no idea what it is that you believe I, and not society should take the blame for. A hint might help?


Should I assume that you're referring to the Holomodor, when so many Soviets suffered from the crop failures so prevalent during those dust bowl times? It was certainly a good thing that Canada was able to supply wheat to the Soviets in the mid 50's, the next time the Soviet crop failed. It cost us an ambassador killed by the CIA, but it's something almost all Canadians take pride in.
I'm sure I'd have remembered a word like Holodymyr if only for the unusual spelling.


Terry

bbr2314

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1048 on: December 04, 2018, 05:30:58 AM »
Jeez!


Buddy, Rob, and now bbr.


A triad of the trite who support the strong as they harangue the helpless.


They defend the indefensible, assured that the powerful have their back.
Their research is a cursory scan of the front page of an Operation Mockingbird publication. Not surprisingly the editorials, even the op-eds are in agreement. An amazing confirmation!


If their position is assailed, they may go as far as the Atlantic Council, or some other CIA or MIC approved NGO in search of verification. Confirmed Again, and this time by Acronyms, Amazing!


Very little thought is required, and absolutely no introspection. Thinking may not come easy, and might produce undesired results. Troubling results that disagree with the consensus spouted by all of the major (news)? sources.


Their thoughts are of such value that they are hoarded, hidden away 'neath the mass of drivel that the MSM has injected into their oh so willing conscious minds - if consciousness is the correct word to describe this state of binary acceptance or rejection of ideas, based solely on what a favored talking head has just intoned.


Feel free to spout your nonsense, and don't feel personally rejected when others reject your conclusions. It's not you're ideas we object to, it's the trite crap that has been planted into your mind, that you expel virtually unmolested by your own grey matter.


We've never been exposed to you're ideas.
Terry
You seem like an angry prole who does not consider the ramifications of your idealism. Idealism does not work. Calling Ukrainians fascists and Nazis won't justify another Russian invasion, either, as they have been consistently under Russian's oppressive thumb throughout history (it seems like the Holodymyr is outright forgotten by you and many others).

It is easy to sit on the sidelines from some random place in Canada as you contribute nothing to society and kvetch about its failings. This is your fault, not society's.


Just when did these past "Ukrainian Invasions" by Russia occur? You're surely not referencing the Allied defeat of Fascist Ukraine?


The Poles and Jews killed by order of Ukraine's hero Stepan Bandera's certainly believed they were being "exterminated" by fascists and Nazis, but perhaps their surviving relatives are just too personally involved to be rational. I'd considered the Waffen SS flags and the Swastikas they march under to be adequate proof of their affiliation, but some deny their own eyes.


I'm amazed that you're aware of my small contributions to Canadian society, congratulations on your research. There are a few however that might take issue with your conclusion that they are entirely without value. Perhaps even some still posting here who assisted by providing charts and graphs for various lectures.
I've no idea what it is that you believe I, and not society should take the blame for. A hint might help?


Should I assume that you're referring to the Holomodor, when so many Soviets suffered from the crop failures so prevalent during those dust bowl times? It was certainly a good thing that Canada was able to supply wheat to the Soviets in the mid 50's, the next time the Soviet crop failed. It cost us an ambassador killed by the CIA, but it's something almost all Canadians take pride in.
I'm sure I'd have remembered a word like Holodymyr if only for the unusual spelling.


Terry
The Ukrainian spelling is Holodymyr. But you don't acknowledge Ukraine as a country or a culture and instead continue labeling it as Soviet. So, enjoy your ignorance. 

Fun fact: my family was personally victimized by the Russians upon their third-to-last invasion in 1939 (another fun fact: Russia re-invaded in 1944 and is currently invading once more). They left before they could come back again to finish the job. Ukraine has been invaded 3X in the last 75 years alone by the Russians. You are a fat boob.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 05:38:10 AM by bbr2314 »

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #1049 on: December 04, 2018, 05:39:12 AM »
Ukraine-Russia relations might best be on the "Russia,Russia,Russia" thread or perhaps an entirely new thread.

sidd