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wili

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #450 on: November 18, 2016, 12:45:44 AM »
Good catch, ASLR. I had a general sense of that dynamic, but the extract you quote from says it quite clearly. I would add that it is not just white men that have these stories. More white women voted for Trump than for Clinton, iirc. And in my neighborhood, which has a very high concentration of immigrants as well as African American, many Blacks have similar views about immigrants with similar resentments.

One disappointment I had with Obama is that he didn't make these issues a more prominent, open national discussion. If he had, perhaps some people could see where their 'stories' do not always mesh with reality. But then again, maybe not. Perhaps presenting it, at least, people may have felt that their side of the story was being told. Of course, it would be even better if he also had an even more vigorous vision for bringing back jobs to rural America and some other sections of the economy. I don't think he got enough credit for the advances (which plinius points out) that he did achieve, though.

....
 I pretty much agree with pileus's position here
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 05:59:12 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

pileus

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #451 on: November 18, 2016, 02:23:38 AM »
I am surprised and pleased to say that I pretty much agree with plinius's position here (surprised because on some other cases I find myself in disagreement with his positions and demeanor.)

I assumed I might be confused with that member.  ;-)

White women can be much more racist that white men.  Sadly, for some of them hatred of "others" trumps any concerns about a sexual abuser occupying the Oval Office.

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #452 on: November 18, 2016, 05:30:02 AM »
1) "American structures, systems, and opportunities have long been set up to favor American born white males."

Agreed. But other countries who have elected women have even more lopsided patriachal structure also, yet women triumphed electorally. The answer might be of interest, and ties into the economic argument, that these women won by promising the poor a better chance.

2) Re: Economics and the Trump victory. Please see

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-was-stronger-where-the-economy-is-weaker/

There is a similar article in the washington post, but less well sourced.

sidd
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 05:38:39 AM by sidd »

wili

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #453 on: November 18, 2016, 06:00:24 AM »
D'oh!

Sorry, pileus. Thanks. Fixed.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

pileus

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #454 on: November 18, 2016, 07:08:43 AM »
1) "American structures, systems, and opportunities have long been set up to favor American born white males."

Agreed. But other countries who have elected women have even more lopsided patriachal structure also, yet women triumphed electorally. The answer might be of interest, and ties into the economic argument, that these women won by promising the poor a better chance.

2) Re: Economics and the Trump victory. Please see

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-was-stronger-where-the-economy-is-weaker/

There is a similar article in the washington post, but less well sourced.

sidd

It's a good read, thank you.  It's also a case study in people voting against their own interests.  Trump can't do anything to change the march of technology or globalization.  If anything his proposals will slow the overall economy, and of course the worst will be felt in those very same areas.  When they see and feel his failures, they will not hold him responsible as long as he continues the rhetoric against Mexicans and Muslims, and the RW machine will be right there to cast blame on Obama and Dems.

I'd like to take some economically anxious folks from areas with routine jobs and introduce them to people I've met in Manila.  People that ride on shoddy buses 3 hours each way to work, to support the four generations of family that are crowded in a small apartment.  If Americans in depressed areas just wait for the government or a strong man to fix things, they'll just be waiting forever.  They should turn off Fox News, stop stealing grandma's Percocet, and try to improve their situations.

What will be interesting is as climate change forces dislocation along the US East Coast, where do the coastal elites and the supporting cast of lower wage service workers end up?  To the Rust Belt states?

Csnavywx

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #455 on: November 18, 2016, 01:08:24 PM »
1) Powerful women such as Indira Gandhi, Srimavo Bandaranaike, Corazon Aquino, Dilma Rousseff do no exactly hail from gender equal societies. The argument that the USA is more misogynistic than India, Sri Lanka, the Plillipines or Brazil is weak.

2) In the list of reasons presented by Pileus for Trump's victory, I do not see economics. Crediting solely those reasons for Clinton's defeat will ensure continuing losses for the Democratic Party. 

sidd

Quote my post to show where there was a relative comparison of misogyny in other countries (tip:  you can't, because it didn't happen).  The essence, since you missed it:  American structures, systems, and opportunities have long been set up to favor American born white males.  The US was founded on white male supremacy.  It's both obvious and subtle. 

Economics?  You mean a record period of job creation and 95.1% employment?  Most people even in the Rust Belt understand that manufacturing is not coming back, and even if so it would be largely automated.  Trump can't change that.  For many here "economic anxiety" is a cover for failure to adapt in a changing world, and a reaction to the expanding Hispanic demographic.  Trumps supporters won't hold him accountable for his failure to deliver on his economic proposals, as long as he continues to antagonize Mexicans, Muslims, and "others".  Just watch.

Continuing losses for the Democratic Party?  Most Americans prefer Democratics in general, and Democratic economic policies specifically.  6 of the last 7 Presidential popular votes won by the Democrat.  2014 House cumulative votes flavored democrats, and likely in 2016.  Refer back to my comments about systemic and organized voter suppression.  Republicans understand the dynamics, and they know they can't win at the ballot box on their policies and ideas alone.

If you're basing it on duration alone, then yes. Strength, no. Also, unemployment numbers do not reflect a) job quality (where wages are a proxy), b) underemployment, and c) labor force participation rate, which are all important metrics and which are all (still) anemic.

Like sidd mentioned, if the Dems stick with solely the strategy mentioned and don't include the economic side and the problems of the forgotten man, they'll lose again. It's important to get it right, because the consequences of getting it wrong again are dire.

Painting the entirety of Trump voters with the same brush is the same mistake that Dems eviscerate Republicans for. It's also hypocrisy.

I'm not the only one:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jon-stewart-nobody-asked-donald-trump-what-makes-america-great-165854259.html

 

pileus

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #456 on: November 18, 2016, 06:29:03 PM »
If you're basing it on duration alone, then yes. Strength, no. Also, unemployment numbers do not reflect a) job quality (where wages are a proxy), b) underemployment, and c) labor force participation rate, which are all important metrics and which are all (still) anemic.

Like sidd mentioned, if the Dems stick with solely the strategy mentioned and don't include the economic side and the problems of the forgotten man, they'll lose again. It's important to get it right, because the consequences of getting it wrong again are dire.

Painting the entirety of Trump voters with the same brush is the same mistake that Dems eviscerate Republicans for. It's also hypocrisy.

I'm not the only one:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jon-stewart-nobody-asked-donald-trump-what-makes-america-great-165854259.html

No, all Republicans are not racists and xenophobes.  But Trump's core agenda is based on...racism and xenophobia.  And people were wildly enthusiastic to that message, and turned out for that in this cycle. I think the "forgotten man" above is the forgotten white man.  Addressing the economic situation of the forgotten man with an agenda and policies that dilute or restrict the rights of minorities and ethnic groups is still...racism and xenophobia. 

It's the height of hypocrisy to hear the GOP nominee, and the entire RW media machine, harp on Muslims, Mexicans, and others as America's greatest problem, and not admit that it's racist and xenophobic.

I can't believe some of this analysis that the Democratic agenda is all of a sudden ignoring or not geared towards the populations in lower socioeconomic groups. Hillary Clinton was not going to be dishonest and say coal jobs are coming back, or all the manufacturing jobs from the 70s are coming back.  If that was the difference in the three Rust Belt states where about 100K votes swung the electoral college, those folks are going to be sorely disappointed in the next few years.  But Trump and the GOP will be right there to blame....Mexicans, and "others".   

Let's not forget that Hillary Clinton is on track to have the 3rd highest popular vote total in US presidential election history.  More than any white Republican man, ever.  That's a rejection of Democratic economic policy?

oren

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #457 on: November 19, 2016, 02:17:55 PM »
No one disputes that Trump's messages were racist and xenophobic. But people are more open to such messages when their economy is bad.

JimD

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #458 on: November 20, 2016, 04:48:22 PM »
Well I guess the forum has a new troll.

Lots of BS there but I don't know that I care to respond in any detail other than to say it is more repeating of misguided and/or inaccurate themes than anything else. 

I had a discussion with my wife on our morning walk today on a very related subject matter.  She by the way was a very strong Clinton supporter (even though she agreed that all of the prime complaints about Clinton were accurate) for the sole reason (which she readily admitted to) was that Clinton was a woman and she felt it was time for a woman to run things.  I on the other hand was dead set against either Trump or Clinton (Sanders supporter here).

The discussion we had was on the relative election strategy and tactics of the two camps during and before the campaign.  There should be no argument at this point to which camp had the better plan and execution.  Clinton and the Democrats election operations can only be characterized as incompetent.  Trump on the other hand (entering the 'contest' as a complete neophyte) systematically dismantled the two biggest political machines built in America over the last 80 years - the Clinton and Bush machines.  He also dispatched 14 (or was it 16) experienced political rivals in the Republican party as well as over powering the Republican establishment. He carried the Republican party into an election result which (if they do not squander it) will allow them to hold political power overall in America for at least 6 years and possibly for much longer.  I have been arguing with a host of people involved in a wide variety of interests that range from climate change, progressive politics, environmentalism, national security issues and such for some time that something like this was coming as the various players running the political system were ignoring the constituencies which Trump reached out to with his rhetoric.  The demonizing of any large group of people over a long period of time while at the same time you are destroying their ability to have a quality life cannot end well.  And this is what the Democrats AND the Republicans have been doing for decades now.  When Clinton repeated Romney's statement about the worthless 40% of Americans by referring to them as 'deplorables' as I saw on the news one night I turned to my wife and told her that Clinton probably just threw her chances of winning the election in the trash.

Trump executed a plan to draw support from the working class and the middle class voters who have been deliberately left behind in Americas economic planning over the last 30 years.  And don't try and tell me that this did not happen or was not a plan as I would remind you that I have told you before that my brother was one of the economic architects of this plan some 30 years ago and he described its intent quite clearly back then (labor arbitrage between working class and middle class workers across the world in order to vastly increase profits for large corporations like his by driving down wages in places like the US.  He was the chief of North American operations for a Fortune 500 corp).  So Trump executed a plan along a populist political theme.  Clinton could have countered this just by selling herself to working class voters and bothering to campaign in the locations where their votes were electorally important - as some Democratic strategists tried to get her to do.  But her cluelessness about the importance of these voters and their legitimate interests led her to make a galactically significant strategic mistake. 

Additional reasons Clinton fell on her face was that she did not understand the electorate all that well.  Why did she not do as well as Obama did with white women and men, blacks overall, Hispanics overall, working class voters?  You cannot say it was because of Trumps supposed racism  and misogyny now can you?  Clearly not.  Dog whistling goes both ways and both sides were using it.  But working class people of all colors and cultures know that they are being screwed by the establishment Democrats and Republicans and some of them - no matter what they thought of Trump personally - could not or would not vote for Clinton. 

Working and middle class people have legitimate interests which are systematically being activly ignored and deliberately being undermined.  These people are not stupid and some of them - only some of them - have reached the point where it rationally makes more sense to them to take a flyer on someone like Trump because he offers change.  And no they are not naive about the likelyhood of this leap working, they just know that it is their only chance as the Democrats and Republicans have proven they will not do anything for them.  Two bad choices obviously.  But one offered no hope and the one they took they see as having some chance.  Right or wrong this choice makes rational sense.  Now think what happens if a growing percentage of Black and Hispanic voters can be persuaded that their best option lies in this direction.  After all it is definitely true that working class people, no matter what their color, culture or race may be, have a LOT more in common with each other than they do to the 1% who own and control people from the Establishment parts of the parties.  There is huge fertile ground laying in front of the Trump administration to plant some seeds in.  He got 4-5% of the Blacks and Hispanics to not vote for Clinton.  If he can pull just a few more percent next time he wins again most likely.  It is hardly impossible and he has clearly demonstrated the ability to see this far.  The Democratic party had better throw out most of its leadership and return to its roots of advocating for the working class and middle class if it was success in the future.

Populism has a bright political future in a declining world.  Italy may be the next to go this way and it is pretty certain that this type of politics will grow much stronger.  It comes with our ongoing collapse and will get worse as climate change and collapse worsen.

ALSR

I agree with that article you linked to a great extent, but I do not interpret it as a refutation of Illargi's post.  It actually confirms the broad themes of what I think as well as Illargi's body of work.  Yes, Illargi is not fully educated in all the aspects of climate change - as I have pointed out he is somewhat weak on this subject - but taking that into account the two articles meld pretty well.  No one can know it all and we have to look for where there is value and combine it with value found elsewhere.  It is the systems approach.  Additionally regarding your statement about choosing the light or darkness I would point out that the vast majority of what we live and what is available for us to choose between can only be described in shades of grey.

Regards

ps sorry for any grammer mistakes and spelling - I am in a hurry as I have other requirements to respond to today.

We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #459 on: November 20, 2016, 05:37:42 PM »
While Trump supporter want to live in the past and fixate on Hillary Clinton, the future holds an increasingly divided nation as illustrated by the linked article entitled: "If Trump quits, California could apply to join UN climate talks".  Trump will pretend to be leading a populist revolt (even though he did not win the major of votes), but in actuality he will just be enabling special interests, like the Koch Brothers, to benefit at the people's expense:


http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/11/17/if-trump-quits-california-could-apply-to-join-un-climate-talks/?utm_source=Inside+Climate+News&utm_campaign=b908482ce9-Today_s_Climate12_10_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_29c928ffb5-b908482ce9-326462105


Extract: "If Donald Trump pulls the US out of the UN climate process in early 2017, the world’s sixth largest economy could try and fill the sizeable hole it leaves.
Asked by Climate Home on Thursday if the golden state could replace the United States, California senate leader Kevin De Leon said it was an “option that I want to keep open”.
Legal experts at Harvard and Yale were already researching if a sub-national body could join the UN climate talks he said, but added this would be a “political decision”.
“We will continue to be active in the international movement to address climate change,” said De Leon, who branded Trump’s threat to the UN process as a “jobs killer”.
“To the extent the UN wants to coordinate with work we are doing we are more than willing to take part in these discussions,” he added.

Traditionally only states have been members of the UN climate body, although there are exceptions to the rule such as the EU and the Holy See.

A spokesperson for the UN climate body appeared to nix California’s chances, telling Climate Home that “only national governments” could join.

But the UN convention on climate change appears to allow for some flexibility: “Any body or agency, whether national or international, governmental or non-governmental, which is qualified in matters covered by the Convention, and which has informed the secretariat of its wish to be represented at a session of the Conference of the Parties as an observer, may be so admitted unless at least one third of the Parties present object.”

Still, Jake Schmidt, head of international climate policy the National Resources Defense Council (NRDC), a leading US NGO, said Governor Jerry Brown’s administration “should definitely consider it”."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Csnavywx

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #460 on: November 21, 2016, 12:06:46 AM »
The "did not win popular vote" line borders (to me) on a canard. That's not how the election is fought and that makes a difference in the final vote. If the rules were set for a pure popular vote (a good idea on paper - but horrible in practice - a discussion for another thread), the results would most likely have been different. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Republicans do not spend much time in dense, urban Democratic strongholds and their related states because their chances of winning those areas on an Electoral College map are not very significant. This creates a cycle of underinvestment in campaigning where the popular vote in those states (like California) goes heavily in favor of one candidate. If it were a popular vote-only race, you'd see far more money and campaigning going on in those regions and thus, most likely a reduction in Democratic popular vote in those states. The inverse isn't necessarily true because a significant portion of the Republican vote is in rural and exurb areas that are harder to reach and get turnout for in the case of a Democratic candidate.

At any rate, the failure of the DNC and the party in general was taking for granted that the Rust Belt states were a "given" and virtually no time or money need be spent there. As we just saw, almost the entire Rust Belt flipped. This is also the region left behind by globalization and free trade agreements. Economic despair goes hand in hand with populism and a strengthening of xenophobic and racist elements. We saw this first-hand in Europe over the past several years. We saw this in the lead up to WWII. Folks look around for someone to blame for their predicament. It's at this vulnerable time that nationalists have invariably taken up their banners and in each and every case, the established political paradigms have been tossed away.

One thing is for certain, AGW is going to increasingly produce (a few) winners and (a lot) of losers. This, as JimD pointed out, is an increasingly favorable breeding ground for populism, nationalism and violence. The potential knock-on effects for international climate agreements (for instance) or cooperation in general is severe. It's my opinion that we're in the last decade or so for a chance at effective cooperation. The further we go, the stronger the headwinds become. The geopolitical effects of climate change are something that really hasn't been touched upon to any decent degree by scenario builders (including those at the IPCC).
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 12:17:31 AM by Csnavywx »

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #461 on: November 21, 2016, 04:05:50 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Obama says he may take on Trump”.  So rather than focusing on what might or might not have happened in the past election; like Obama I prefer to focus on the future to help voters better understand the reality of our current situation:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-democrats-trump-231691


Extract: ““I want to be respectful of the office and give the president-elect an opportunity to put forward his platform and his arguments without somebody popping off in every instance,” Obama said, but “as an American citizen who cares deeply about our country, if there are issues that have less to do with the specifics of some legislative proposal or battle but go to core questions about our values and our ideals, and if I think that it’s necessary or helpful for me to defend those ideals, then I’ll examine it when it comes.”

But don’t despair, Obama said, pointing out that Clinton won the popular vote this year and that Democrats continue to get more cumulative votes in congressional elections, though the structure of the system means that’s not necessarily helpful for the Electoral College or congressional representation. On top of that, Obama noted, his own approval rating remains high, and a Gallup poll just out shows higher approval numbers for the Democratic Party than the GOP.
“I’m not worried about being the last Democratic president – not even for a while,” Obama said, batting back one reporter’s question.


Rather than over-read the election results and call for a “complete overhaul,” Obama said, he urged his party to get smarter. This comes, though, after eight years of many Democratic leaders complaining that Obama never seemed committed to or interested in electing down-ballot Democrats, and as his White House systematically atrophied the Democratic National Committee party apparatus. Obama’s own Organizing for Action group, grown out of his presidential campaign structure, has not emerged into anything like the force expected.

“Doing better involves us working at the grassroots, not ceding territory, going out into areas where right now we may not stand a chance of actually winning, we’re building up a cadre of young talent, we’re making arguments, we’re persuading, we’re talking about the things that matter to ordinary people day-to-day and trying to avoid some of the constant distractions that fill up people’s Twitter accounts,” Obama said. “If we do that, then I’m confident that we’ll be back on track.””
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson


budmantis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #463 on: November 21, 2016, 08:09:49 AM »
Sleepy: With Sarkozy out of the picture, doesn't that play against Le Pen?

Sleepy

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #464 on: November 21, 2016, 10:19:06 AM »
Yes I think so budmantis, Sarkozy would have been a walk over for Le Pen. But Fillon isn't that popular among the left-wing voters and he's also a friend of Putin. Those with anti-establishment sentiments will probably choose between Fillon or Le Pen, left-wing for Juppé.

Who cares about climate change? Mr T and the US just provided a success recipe.

Aporia_filia

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #465 on: November 22, 2016, 01:10:45 PM »
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

—H.L. Mencken, 1920

budmantis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #466 on: November 22, 2016, 03:15:56 PM »
"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

—H.L. Mencken, 1920

And a very dangerous moron he is!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-conflict-of-interest_us_5833b971e4b058ce7aacbb56

"Trump says any conflicts of interest were priced into your vote."

"It's all the media's fault, of course."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #467 on: November 22, 2016, 04:34:06 PM »
The linked opinion piece by Paul R. Ehrlich and Anne H. Ehrlich is entitled: "Opinion: First thoughts on Trump-era science".  As Trump is irrevocably tied to the Tea Party, his chances of supporting Planned Parenthood and/or for effectively fighting climate change are close to zero.  Furthermore, it looks like "The Donald" plans to accelerate the "Hood Robin" approach started by Ronald Reagan to stealing from the poor and lower middle class and giving to the rich; which will serve to accelerate the timing of the coming collapse of both the American Empire and the interconnected global socio-economic system:

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/2016/nov/ehrlich-science-trump-perspective


Extract: "First, those concerned with the state of the world should face up to a likely further reduction in the odds of society changing toward sustainability. The job many of us have been trying to tackle—making the coming collapse less severe—has clearly become much harder.
We were hopeful that at least a partial recovery would be possible and that the worst impacts of our unsustainable ways could be averted. But today we fear there is close to no chance that Trump will take the obvious steps to improve the future for all Americans, even on parochial issues.

Of the most basic forces driving us toward destruction—increasing overpopulation and overconsumption, like most politicians and elite decision-makers—he is pig-ignorant.

As scientists, we're faced with the issue of what our community should do. It seems to us that we should focus on three areas in an attempt to soften the coming crash and make a partial recovery more possible.
The first is generating a thorough discussion of the probability of nuclear war and the likely consequences of both a "small" one and a global one.

The second area of focus should be on inequity and redistribution, which will be critical to prepare humanity for dealing with the coming environmental collapse. A collapse will hit the poor hardest and fastest as continuing population expansions and consumption growth by the rich take us down.

The third area of focus ought to be to work to bring universities into the 21st century. As the results of recent elections have shown, while most politicians have college educations, most are also hopelessly ignorant of how the world works. This leads to such things as climate denial, anti-evolution, belief in perpetual growth, and faith-based policies.

The lack of understanding of basic science is appalling in many so-called "educated" people and is often dramatically displayed in the mainstream media."

Edit: See also the attached cartoon by Tom Toles on the Trump transition.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 04:50:53 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

budmantis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #468 on: November 25, 2016, 07:47:54 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/betsy-devos-child-labor-acton_us_5836eb7fe4b000af95edf12e

"Group Funded By Trump’s Education Secretary Pick: ‘Bring Back Child Labor’."

"This raises serious questions about the woman who would potentially be in charge of U.S. public schools."

Yet another objectionable cabinet pick by President-elect Donald Trump.

budmantis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #469 on: November 26, 2016, 01:17:00 AM »
The linked article gives some valuable insight into the inner workings of Trump's transition team.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/trumps-team-of-rivals-fighting-spills-into-public-231841

"Romney vs. Rudy spat for secretary of state reveals a deeper divide in Trump transition."

Extract: Donald Trump’s struggle to find a secretary of state has erupted into an early battle for the soul of his nascent presidency – a critical showdown between the insurgents who thrust him into office and establishment Republicans pushing for a more conventional White House.
At the moment, the internal debate over who should serve as the steward of the country’s foreign policy pits advocates for bombastic ex-New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani against those for caustic Trump critic Mitt Romney, the GOP’s 2012 nominee. The behind-the-scenes battle exploded into public view on Thanksgiving Day, after Trump stalwarts began viewing Romney as a serious contender.

Tea party activists have launched a grassroots push against Romney over the Thanksgiving week – inundating Trump's office with calls and expressing anger over a potential Romney pick after the contact information to reach Trump Tower was passed around online by people given the number by anti-Romney insiders.
The conservative firebrand Ann Coulter, one of Trump’s most vocal supporters during the campaign -- on Thursday took to Twitter to warn that, without his base, Trump could “be killed with a paper cut.”

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #470 on: November 26, 2016, 01:46:51 AM »
Trump Crazies or Right Wing Republican Whackos?


Decisions, decisions, decisions


Terry

budmantis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #471 on: November 27, 2016, 05:45:12 PM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/these-charts-show-that-trump-is-bringing-the-1990s-back-to-markets/ar-AAkDQ1p?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

"Donald Trump's election as U.S. president is driving global markets to levels not seen in nearly two decades — but in completely different directions. And the "polarization'" of emerging and developed markets is all part of "Trump reflation,'' argues Divya Devesh, a foreign-exchange strategist at Standard Chartered Plc in Singapore."

budmantis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #472 on: November 27, 2016, 06:03:25 PM »
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/priebus-trump-absolutely-willing-to-end-cuba-opening-231854

Extract: President-elect Donald Trump is “absolutely” willing to reverse the opening of diplomatic relations with Cuba, incoming chief of staff Reince Priebus told "Fox News Sunday."
In the wake of the death of longtime Cuban dictator Fidel Castro, Trump needs to see “movement in the right direction” from the Cuban regime in order to maintain recently re-established diplomatic relations with the island nation.


“Repression, open markets, freedom of religion, political prisoners — these things need to change in order to have open and free relationships,” Priebus said. “There’s going to have to be some movement from Cuba in order to have relationship with the United States.”
President Barack Obama restored diplomatic relations between the United States and Cuba after a freeze-out of more than five decades. Obama visited Cuba, now being led by Raul Castro, in March 2016.

----

I find it ironic that Trump expects certain "reforms" from Cuba, while the U.S. seems to be taking a giant step backwards!

SteveMDFP

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #473 on: November 27, 2016, 09:21:03 PM »
That might just be a negotiating stance on Trump's part.  As soon as the regime helps finance Trump Tower Havana, Cuba will be a crucial ally.


TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #474 on: December 10, 2016, 03:01:37 PM »
On Thursday President Obama, with little fanfare, waived sections of the Arms Export Control Act that prevented the US from overtly arming "Foreign forces, irregular forces, groups or individuals within Syria.


https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/12/08/presidential-determination-and-waiver-pursuant-section-2249a-title-10


I'm not sure if I'm more upset at Obama arming the rebels as he leaves office, or at the media blackout that accompanied the move.
RT ran an article, but as far as I can see western media has remained mute.


https://www.rt.com/op-edge/369726-us-arming-militants-war-russia/


I've been a strong supporter of the Democratic Party for close to 40 years.
No More.


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #475 on: December 10, 2016, 04:53:00 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Exxon C.E.O. Said to Be Top Contender for Secretary of State; Giuliani Is Out".  If anyone has any doubts that The Donald will promote the fossil fuel industry, this article can leave no room for such doubts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Extract:
"■ Rudolph W. Giuliani, a fiercely loyal Trump ally, is out of the race for secretary of state. Rex W. Tillerson, the head of Exxon Mobil, appears to be the leading contender.
■ President-elect Donald J. Trump’s transition team is asking a lot of questions at the Energy Department.
■ Mr. Trump will name Gary D. Cohn, the president of Goldman Sachs, to direct the National Economic Council.
■ He could also name Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Republican of Washington, to be interior secretary.

Rex W. Tillerson, the president and chief executive of Exxon Mobil, is the leading candidate to be Mr. Trump’s secretary of state, according to a person with direct knowledge of the search process.

President-elect Trump’s transition team has circulated an unusual 74-point questionnaire that requests the names of all employees and contractors who have attended domestic or international climate change policy conferences, as well as emails associated with the conferences.

The questionnaire appears targeted at climate science research and clean energy programs."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #476 on: December 10, 2016, 05:14:10 PM »
Those who think that The Donald will reduce income inequality in America are sadly mistaken, as indicated by the linked reference and the associated article:

Thomas Piketty, Emmanuel Saez & Gabriel Zucman (2016), "Distributional National Accounts: Methods and Estimates for the United States"

http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/PSZ2016.pdf

Abstract: "This paper combines tax, survey, and national accounts data to estimate the distribution of national income in the United States since 1913. Our distributional national accounts capture 100% of national income, allowing us to compute growth rates for each quantile of the income distribution consistent with macroeconomic growth. We estimate the distribution of both pre-tax and post-tax income, making it possible to provide a comprehensive view of how government redistribution affects inequality. Average pre-tax national income per adult has increased 60% since 1980, but we find that it has stagnated for the bottom 50% of the distribution at about $16,000 a year. The pre-tax income of the middle class| adults between the median and the 90th percentile has grown 40% since 1980, faster than what tax and survey data suggest, due in particular to the rise of tax-exempt fringe benefits. Income has boomed at the top: in 1980, top 1% adults earned on average 27 times more than bottom 50% adults, while they earn 81 times more today. The upsurge of top incomes was first a labor income phenomenon but has mostly been a capital income phenomenon since 2000. The government has offset only a small fraction of the increase in inequality. The reduction of the gender gap in earnings has mitigated the increase in inequality among adults. The share of women, however, falls steeply as one moves up the labor income distribution, and is only 11% in the top 0.1% today."


The linked article is entitled: "Income inequality helped elect Donald Trump — and would grow wider under his policies".


https://mic.com/articles/161422/income-inequality-helped-elect-donald-trump-and-would-grow-wider-under-his-policies#.tHRJ1dJvn

Extract: " Some of the world's top researchers on income inequality — who presented a new paper on the topic Tuesday — say American economic anxiety and the growing gap between the rich and poor helped put President-elect Donald Trump on a path to the White House. Those same economists now warn that Trump will likely make the problem worse.

Letting this trend continue unchecked could hinder growth in the U.S. economy, co-author Zucman said in an email to Mic.
"No one knows how far this can continue to go," Zucman wrote. "But above a certain point, extreme inequality is bound to destroy growth and lead to political instability."
Paradoxically, Saez said, Trump's proposed policies — like regressive tax reform — are likely to make income inequality worse.
"The scary thing is that, unlike Reagan in 1980," Saez said, pointing to the year that income inequality began to grow sharply, "we are starting in 2016 from an already record-high level of inequality."
Trump's tax plan, several economists argue, disproportionately benefits people who are already wealthy.

The underlying causes of growing inequality are complex, the researchers found. One big problem, Saez said, is that the government's biggest redistribution efforts — Medicare and Social Security — target the elderly, as opposed to the very poor.
Saez also pointed to the "Reagan revolution" of the 1980s, saying that "de-regulation, erosion of minimum wage, unions weakening and less progressive taxation," all made income inequality worse.
But a particularly worrisome factor driving the rise of inequality is the dominant role of capital appreciation, Saez said: The growth in the value of assets — as opposed to growth in salaries or productivity — has accounted for most of the rise in richer Americans' income since the early 2000s."

See also:

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/09/the-next-generation-of-americans-is-going-to-be-in-a-lot-of-trouble/

Extract: "“Children’s prospects of achieving the ‘American Dream’ of earning more than their parents have fallen from 90 percent to 50 percent over the past half century,” said Stanford economist Raj Chetty, co-author of the Equal Opportunity Project study. “This decline has occurred throughout the parental income distribution, for children from both low and high income families.”"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #477 on: December 10, 2016, 09:44:30 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Exxon C.E.O. Said to Be Top Contender for Secretary of State; Giuliani Is Out".  If anyone has any doubts that The Donald will promote the fossil fuel industry, this article can leave no room for such doubts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Extract:
"■ Rudolph W. Giuliani, a fiercely loyal Trump ally, is out of the race for secretary of state. Rex W. Tillerson, the head of Exxon Mobil, appears to be the leading contender.
■ President-elect Donald J. Trump’s transition team is asking a lot of questions at the Energy Department.
■ Mr. Trump will name Gary D. Cohn, the president of Goldman Sachs, to direct the National Economic Council.
■ He could also name Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Republican of Washington, to be interior secretary."

See also the linked article entitled: "Rex Tillerson of ExxonMobil Expected to Be Named Trump's Secretary of State: Sources".  It is very bad getting Tillerson but a Tillerson-Bolton tag-team cannot turnout well.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/rex-tillerson-exxon-mobil-expected-be-named-trump-s-secretary-n694371

Extract: "He will also be paired with former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton as his deputy secretary of state, one of the sources added, with Bolton handling day-to-day management of the department."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #478 on: December 10, 2016, 09:54:42 PM »
The linked article is entitled: “Mark Zuckerberg's interest in government puts his defense of Peter Thiel in a whole new light”.  Is Mark Zuckerberg angling to join Trump's kleptocracy so that he can get while the getting is good (if so it puts a new light on the fake news on Facebook that help Trump win the election)?

http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-zuckerberg-government-defense-peter-thiel-2016-12

Extract: “Zuckerberg has expressed interest in political issues before: He wants to speed up the process of bring worldwide broadband access to the internet, for instance. That might require various rule changes in the telecoms industry, as it greatly impacts the broadband carriers that Facebook and WhatsApp are dependent on. He has also hosted a fundraiser for Trump supporter Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey and former head of Trump's transition team. Zuckerberg once donated $100 million to Newark's school system.“

See also the article entitled: “Lawsuit: Texts between Mark Zuckerberg and Marc Andreessen say the Facebook founder may want to go into government”.

http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-government-role-court-documents-allege-text-messages-andreessen-2016-12


“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #479 on: December 10, 2016, 10:23:33 PM »
The linked article is entitled: “The coming Trump kleptocracy, perfectly captured in a single sentence“.  Why should a Republican Congress compel transparency on Trump when they want part of the spoils?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/12/08/the-coming-trump-kleptocracy-perfectly-captured-in-a-single-sentence/?utm_term=.b728e95f86c4


Extract: “If you want to understand why the conflicts-of-interest involving Donald Trump’s business holdings and presidency could matter enormously in the months and years to come, read this single sentence buried in today’s big Wall Street Journal piece about those holdings:

It’s not clear how much Mr. Trump’s businesses would benefit from his proposal to cut business tax rates.
The key part of that sentence is the phrase, “it’s not clear.” The Journal piece reports that Trump has employed a “web” of limited liability companies to house assets accounting for over $300 million of the revenues he reported in disclosure forms last year. The crucial revelation in the piece is that these entities are a key reason why many of the specific details of Trump’s holdings remain shrouded in “opacity.”

And this underscores again that Congressional Republicans could be taking specific steps to try to compel Trump to show more transparency about the full scope and range of his interests — if they wanted to. If Trump does fail to do anything more than transfer his businesses to his family — or, worse, does so while retaining an interest himself — the likely abdication of Congressional Republicans in trying to compel more transparency should be seen as a big part of this story.”
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 11:41:00 PM by AbruptSLR »
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TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #480 on: December 10, 2016, 10:32:35 PM »
Tillerson is a very bad choice.


Bolton's selection makes the appointment of Tillerson appear as a work of genius.


Terry

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #481 on: December 11, 2016, 12:16:51 AM »
If Trump's election halts the American rush to war with Russia I'll forgive him for damn near everything.


We were rushing into a conflict that we might not have survived. Even when Saddam was our target he wasn't subject to the personal demonization that Putin has received.
In my lifetime whenever the media attacked a foreign leader anywhere near this viciously, it was a presage to war. I'm not sure of Russia's military capacity, but I am sure that this is the first time since 1812 that the US has provoked someone with the capability to inflict major damage to the contiguous States.


I haven't been happy watching America roll over small defenceless countries, but I'm much less happy now that they are poking at someone who might be able to fight back.


Obama's "Christmas Surprise" for Russia, (the overt arming of extremist mercenaries in Syria), may not be appreciated by Trump, or Assad and Putin. It certainly seems cowardly to ramp up hostilities just as one is exiting the stage.


Whatever claim to moral superiority the US held is now certainly lost. It's one thing to "accidentally" drop millions of dollars of arms in the desert, or to arm groups who "later" align themselves with terrorists, but to show the world that arming jihadists is Ok, as long as they're our jihadists, is nuts. If you or I had done this we'd end up in jail or droned.


For over 20 years the Democratic Party has been recieving $75.00/month since I saw them as the lesser of two evils. No longer, Master Card has been notified & the payment stopped. They will never again receive as much as a good word from me.


Our children will not escape climate change. No one will escape a nuclear winter.


Terry


AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #482 on: December 11, 2016, 01:10:21 AM »
If Trump's election halts the American rush to war with Russia I'll forgive him for damn near everything.

Terry,

You can forgive Trump and blame the democrats all you want.  Per the linked article, in 2014 ExxonMobil confirmed the Northern Gateway oil project in the Kara Sea is one of the largest oil discoveries in the world, but that Obama's sanctions against Russia (for it's illegal territorial expansion) prevent the development of this valuable asset in the heart of the Arctic Ocean.  With Rex Tillerson as the new Secretary of State these sanctions will soon be lifted and both ExxonMobil & Putin will benefit directly at the expense of both the Arctic and mankind.  By given into strongman rule and kleptocracies (of which Russia is now and the USA will soon become) you are increasing the chance of a nuclear winter rather than diminishing it.


http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/russia-exxon-oil?__lsa=b2e5-1c1d


Extract: "Russia’s state-run oil company said a well drilled in the Arctic Ocean with Exxon Mobil Corp. struck oil, showing the region has the potential to become one of the world’s most important crude-producing areas.
...
Sanctions forbidding U.S. and European cooperation with Russian entities mean that country’s nascent Arctic exploration will be stillborn because Rosneft and its state-controlled sister companies don’t know how to drill in cold offshore conditions alone, she said."

Best,
ASLR

Edit, P.S.: The linked article discusses some of ExxonMobil's Arctic oil drilling projects including those in the Kara Sea, and in Sakhalin (see the image of ExxonMobil's Orlan drilling platform in Russia).

http://corporate.exxonmobil.com/en/current-issues/arctic/presence/our-arctic-presence

P.P.S.: I would not be surprised if such Arctic oil money is one of the main reasons that Russia hacked the Democratic Headquarters and gave the associated e-mails to Wikileak.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 01:22:41 AM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #483 on: December 11, 2016, 01:55:05 AM »
Per the linked Wikipedia article Tillerson made a name for himself within ExxonMobil due to his dealings in Russia (see the attached image of Tillerson & Putin shaking on a business deal). 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Tillerson

Extract: "In 1998, he became a vice president of Exxon Ventures (CIS) and president of Exxon Neftegas Limited with responsibility for Exxon's holdings in Russia and the Caspian Sea. In 1999, with the merger of Exxon and Mobil, he was named Executive Vice President of ExxonMobil Development Company."

ExxonMobil often operates above the law overseas (including in Russia).

Edit: See also the linked article entitled: "Trump Picks Exxon CEO for Secretary of State Despite Close Ties to Putin".

http://www.ecowatch.com/rex-tillerson-putin-2140257585.html

Extract: "Exxon, the top U.S. producer of oil and gas and a well-documented funder of climate science denial, actually leases more land in Russia than it does in the U.S.

"Exxon boosted its Russian holdings to 63.7 million acres in 2014 from 11.4 million at the end of 2013, according to data from U.S. regulatory filings," reported Bloomberg in March 2014. "That dwarfs the 14.6 million acres of rights Exxon holds in the U.S., which until last year was its largest exploration prospect."

Exxon, though headquartered in Irving, Texas near Dallas, is a sprawling "private empire" with assets spread across the globe. When asked about building more U.S. refineries to protect the U.S. economy and consumers from fuel shortages, former CEO and chairman Lee Raymond put Exxon's view of itself and its loyalty to the U.S. bluntly.

"I'm not a U.S. company, and I don't make decisions based on what's good for the U.S," Raymond is quoted as saying in the 2012 book Private Empire: ExxonMobil and American Power by Steve Coll.

In June, Tillerson attended the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum after taking a two-year hiatus from attending the event, which is the top business meeting held annually in Russia. Igor Sechin, CEO of Russian state oil company Rosneft and currently the subject of U.S. sanctions, served as the keynote speaker.
...
As soon as sanctions are lifted in Russia, which Trump has said he would do, Exxon has said it will return to the Russian Arctic."
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 02:34:38 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #484 on: December 11, 2016, 11:38:54 PM »
The linked article is entitled: “Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump win White House“.  It contains a nice summary of the history of this matter:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.544d926c0266
\

Extract: "The CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system, according to officials briefed on the matter.

Intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee and others, including Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, according to U.S. officials. Those officials described the individuals as actors known to the intelligence community and part of a wider Russian operation to boost Trump and hurt Clinton’s chances.

“It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected,” said a senior U.S. official briefed on an intelligence presentation made to U.S. senators. “That’s the consensus view.”

The CIA shared its latest assessment with key senators in a closed-door briefing on Capitol Hill last week, in which agency officials cited a growing body of intelligence from multiple sources. Agency briefers told the senators it was now “quite clear” that electing Trump was Russia’s goal, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters. “
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 12:50:03 AM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #485 on: December 12, 2016, 12:49:41 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Leaked Memo Outlines Trump’s Energy Agenda", and indicates that extent of climate damage that Trump is planning on inflicting on the world:

http://www.ecowatch.com/trump-energy-agenda-2131797024.html

Extract: "President-elect Donald Trump is set to gut U.S. environmental regulations, open up federal lands for fossil fuel extraction and quit the Paris climate agreement, according to documents seen by Energydesk.

A memo penned by Thomas Pyle, head of the Department of Energy transition team, and obtained by the Center for Media and Democracy, lists 14 key energy and environment policies the incoming Trump administration is expected to enact."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

logicmanPatrick

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #486 on: December 12, 2016, 01:37:49 AM »
A reminder of old news - from October 11 2016

Quote
Joint Statement from the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security

The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #487 on: December 12, 2016, 04:24:14 AM »
"McConnell Covered Up CIA Reports That Russian Hacks Were Aimed At Electing Trump"
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/12/mitch-mcconnell-squelched-disclosure
Quote
According to a bombshell report from the Washington Post, the CIA concluded that Russia actively interfered in the election not just to destabilize our political system, but to actively elect Donald Trump.

This conclusion was not something they just pulled out of thin air. Intelligence agencies had arrived at their conclusion in September, and briefed a bipartisan group in the Senate and House about it then, along with President Obama. The President wanted to go forward with a full disclosure of the report, but Mitch McConnell quashed it, threatening to taint any disclosure with the claim that it was being made merely for political gain.

(Methinks the GOP is since long the party of the fossil fools and the oilygarchy. Nothing surprising that they have no qualms linking arms with the Russian oilygarchy, serving and protecting their stranded assets.)

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #488 on: December 12, 2016, 07:55:24 AM »
I will not dispute the truth, or lack thereof, of the claim "Russia was trying to help Trump win White House." But I must smile when looking at the parties who make the claim. The Washington Post has been part of the Mighty Wurlitzer since at least the days of Philip Graham in 1948, quite entangled with Wisner and the Dulles brothers and the rest of the murderous and incompetent crew which became the CIA. For that sad tale you may see "Operation Mockingbird" and the Church Committee hearings. I will not here recapitulate the litany of lies from the Post and the CIA since the Church inquiry. There was no cause too evil to espouse for that pair, no villany too low, no despot too vile, no swamp too fetid or drain too filthy. Citing sources such as these two serves no purpose except, perhaps, satire.

Perhaps the Post is being satirical too. They posted an an apologia of sorts for another very recent story which blacklisted alternative media, quite droll in it's own right:

"The Post, which did not name any of the sites, does not itself vouch for the validity of PropOrNot’s findings regarding any individual  outlet, nor did the article purport to do so."

For a leading newspaper to admit they do not vouch for the validity of what they print is quite an admission even in this post-truth world.  Of course, they invented the post-truth world but I think they forgot that if the truth matters not, then neither do lies. Nor their claims as to which is which.

In fairness, their leading competitor and colleague in crime is no better.

More cogently,  I am afraid those operating the wurlitzer have not grasped that they are no longer believed, and soon will no longer be even noticed.

See also Greenwald at the intercept, Wheeler at emptywheel.

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/10/anonymous-leaks-to-the-washpost-about-the-cias-russia-beliefs-are-no-substitute-for-evidence/

https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/12/09/unpacking-new-cia-leak-dont-ignore-aluminum-tube-footnote/

sidd


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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #489 on: December 12, 2016, 05:54:48 PM »
At least 16 US intelligence agencies have concluded Russian operatives interfered in the election in an organized and systemic manner, with the intent of electing Trump.  The POTUS elect is trashing the intelligence community, refusing to hear Intel briefings, and likely subscribes to John Bolton's false flag theory.

Trump actually invited Russia to interfere in the election.  He called on them to hack and release DNC and Clinton emails.  That's treasonous.

This isn't about a random shady figure making references to yellow cake, and an irresponsible mainstream press not doing their job,  It's sad that some see post truth media on a level playing field.  The WAPO is imperfect and is replete with incompetent journalists, but it is not Alex Jones, is not Fox News.  False equivalence. 

There is raging, billowing smoke here, yet many prefer not to look at the fire. 


budmantis

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #490 on: December 12, 2016, 07:06:08 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-morell-russia-election-hacking_us_584eb2cde4b0bd9c3dfd73cc

Former Acting CIA Director Calls Russian Interference In Election ‘The Political Equivalent Of 9/11’

“A foreign government messing around in our elections is, I think, an existential threat to our way of life,” he said.

-----

The pres. elect is also an existential threat to our way of life.

TerryM

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #491 on: December 12, 2016, 07:44:43 PM »
pileus


Have the 16 agencies weighed in on whether the CIA's much publicized on/off/on again "investigation" of Hillary might have cost her the election?


Could the CIA have conspired with Russia, Exxon, Wikileaks and Trump to skew election results?


We now know that it was a Clinton supporter who posted the false Wikileak that started the Wiki/Russian connection.  Tillerson was posted in Thailand, Yemen & Russia, what wonderful cover for a covert operative, why not a CIA, Exxon conspiracy.


The Trump presidency is going to be terrible for everyone concerned about the future. A war with Russia means no future to worry about.


Terry




Hefaistos

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #492 on: December 12, 2016, 08:33:49 PM »
I'd be very careful to jump to conclusions regarding (official) Russian involvement in the various hackings on the Democrats. It seems more likely that skilful hackers just left a trail in their hacks to point in the all too obvious direction. There is no hard evidence brought forward, and I doubt there will be.

Newsweek: “I am not saying that I don't think Russia did this,” Nada Bakos, a top former CIA counterterrorism officer tells Newsweek, in a typical comment. “My main concern is that we will rush to judgment. The analysis needs to be cohesive and done the right way.”

http://europe.newsweek.com/cia-trump-putin-2016-election-hacks-wikileaks-clinton-spies-intelligence-iraq-530666?rm=eu

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #493 on: December 12, 2016, 09:51:43 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Trump risks war by turning the One China question into a bargaining chip".  Trump's action could lead either to a direct war between the US & China and/or to China financing and supporting interests that are hostile to the US.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/12/12/trump-is-risking-war-by-turning-the-one-china-question-into-a-bargaining-chip/?utm_term=.226c722b7322

Extract: "Undermining the status quo could lead to full-scale military conflict between the United States and China over an island that both see as vital to their national interests and whose unique status they have managed well up to this point."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #494 on: December 12, 2016, 10:00:23 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Electoral college members request intelligence briefing on Russia, Trump".  The bipartisan electors' letter calls for the briefing to address the ties between the Trump campaign and the Russian government before the Dec 19, 2016 Elector College vote.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/electoral-college-intelligence-briefing-russia-election_us_584ee466e4b0e05aded4da1b


Edit: See also the article entitled: "Is Hillary Clinton Trying To Question The Legitimacy Of Donald Trump Winning?".

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/12/505286051/is-hillary-clinton-trying-to-question-the-legitimacy-of-donald-trump-winning

&
The following linked article entitled: "Bipartisan Electors Ask James Clapper: Release Facts on Outside Interference in U.S. Election".

https://extranewsfeed.com/bipartisan-electors-ask-james-clapper-release-facts-on-outside-interference-in-u-s-election-c1a3d11d5b7b#.u3nrkgl5v
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 11:01:03 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #495 on: December 12, 2016, 10:13:22 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "How we know Russia, not a guy in Jersey, hacked the DNC".

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/technology/309956-how-we-know-russia-not-a-guy-in-jersey-hacked-the-dnc

Extract: "I have to admit that I was shocked when I saw President-elect Donald Trump's interview with Fox News.

While I don't doubt he wants to deny the conclusion that Russia intended to help get him elected, his comment regarding computer crime attribution was grossly ignorant of both computer crime investigations practices, as well as the hundreds of people who have gone to jail as a result of the hard work of law enforcement officers.

In the case of the hacks of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), there was a detailed analysis of the hack by Crowdstrike, a top cybersecurity company that investigates highly sophisticated attacks that clearly attributed to the software and infrastructure used to Russian state-sponsored hackers. The conclusion was confirmed by multiple organizations with similar expertise.

Clearly, the CIA and other intelligence agencies also agree with the analysis."

Edit, see also the following linked article entitled: "Yes, Donald Trump, you can catch hackers not in the act".

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2016/12/12/trump-election-russia-interference-hacking-mock-twitter-tweet/95332544/

Edit2, for a timeline of Russia's hacking of the 2016 election see the following article entitled: "A Timeline of Russia's Hacking Into US Political Organizations Ahead of the Election".

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/timeline-russias-hacking-us-political-organizations-ahead-election/story?id=44140526
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 12:48:12 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #496 on: December 12, 2016, 11:22:28 PM »
Levin(2016, doi:10.1177/0738894216661190 )

"Overall, 117 partisan electoral interventions were made by the US and the USSR/Russia between 1 January 1946 and 31 December 2000. Eighty-one (or 69%) of these interventions were done by the US while the other 36 cases (or 31%) were conducted by the USSR/ Russia. To put this number in the proper perspective, during the same period 937 competitive national-level executive elections, or plausible targets for an electoral intervention, were conducted within independent countries. 20 Accordingly, 11.3% of these elections, or about one of every nine competitive elections since the end of the Second World War, have been the targets of an electoral intervention." 

Those are, of course, merely the electoral interventions. Military actions add considerably to the list, but are not discussed in the paper.

Chalmers Johnson was more prescient than he knew when he wrote "Blowback."

sidd

Neven

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #497 on: December 12, 2016, 11:50:17 PM »
While they're at it, maybe the geniuses can also tell us who hacked the CRU servers to cause Climategate? Because that seemed to be so much to ask at the time.  ::)

Anyway, very strange developments. I don't know what to make of it. Does this mean the US Secretary of Finance will not be provided by Goldman Sachs?
The enemy is within
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E. Smith

sidd

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #498 on: December 13, 2016, 12:03:51 AM »
"Does this mean the US Secretary of Finance will not be provided by Goldman Sachs?"

Oh, hardly. Banks own both of them.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Empire - America and the future
« Reply #499 on: December 13, 2016, 12:08:57 AM »
While they're at it, maybe the geniuses can also tell us who hacked the CRU servers to cause Climategate? Because that seemed to be so much to ask at the time.  ::)

For those who are interested, the linked 2011 Mother Jones article is entitled: "Climategate: What Really Happened?".

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2011/04/history-of-climategate

Extract: "How climate science became the target of "the best-funded, best-organized smear campaign by the wealthiest industry that the Earth has ever known.""

Edit: So this raises the question of whether ExxonMobil provided funding for any of these shenanigans.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 12:24:12 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson