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ggelsrinc

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I like numbers as much as the rest of many of our members do, but I thought I'd take a rest from reading the IPCC report and write something for a change. I also like predictions, but am very weary about thinking I can predict things, when I influence the outcome of my prediction, like I have by starting this thread, which scores a +1 for topics.

Noticing the amount of members and topics are so close in number, I came up with this rather meaningless idea for a thread. I considered making my first thread about Thorium MSRs, but backed away from the subject, figuring lack of interest.

Now, I totally agree this subject is meaningless, but if Neven allows it on his forum, I vow to not do anything directly to persuade people to become members or make up any more meaningless topics, so I can honestly see if my predictions come true.

I predict on 2/22/2014, the amount of members on ASIF will be more than the amount of topics. It could be before, later or never, so what do you predict?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 10:38:09 PM by ggelsrinc »

Neven

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2013, 10:32:48 PM »
Depends on the ice! More melt = more attention. On the other hand, maybe more topics are opened when there's a lot of ice melt...
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ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 12:15:51 AM »
Depends on the ice! More melt = more attention. On the other hand, maybe more topics are opened when there's a lot of ice melt...

I have a different perspective, Neven. I think the wealth of your forum rests in the scientific knowledge it contains and the members contributing that knowledge so openly. I vowed not to directly make my prediction come true and I'm not a liar, but the idea that many political sites have people who would love the information on your website has occurred to me. I've seen plenty of people who spend their time just posting information about our environment on such political sites and seldom do they waste their time arguing with the mindless masses of Denialistas. I argue with Denialistas, but I've never cut a diamond and know I'm never going to penetrate their skulls. It's never done to convince them and only a play for the audience. Sometimes, Denialistas mention things I haven't researched enough to form a good scientific opinion on that subject, like that stolen email nonsense. Even Denialistas can direct you to things you wouldn't study on your own initiative. I have found there is some value in such against the odds exchanges, because environmentalists are heavily outnumbered there. The world would be a better place if every scientist would post once a day refuting the nonsense against good science and just walk away from a discussion with fools. It could be done in a matter of minutes.

I noticed, I didn't see your prediction and I have set my benchmark. I recommend no betting amongst friends, but if Vegas gets interested, take them for every cent they have and own their house. If this and another major fragmentation event occurred on 2/22/2014, I'd be one happy camper, never wanting another birthday present again. Just the fragmentation event present is enough for me! 

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 05:34:08 AM »
62 and counting down, Neven! I think it was 64 when I started this thread, IIRC.

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 09:45:54 AM »
The forum still gets new members, despite the melting season being over. Some of them I suspect are here for spam, but I can't be sure until they start spreading it. Or maybe they just become members to be able to see Wipneus' stuff.
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bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 12:05:56 AM »
ggelsrinc

QUOTE..."I think the wealth of your forum rests in the scientific knowledge it contains and the members contributing that knowledge so openly"

That is certainly what attracted me to this web site. 

For me there seemed a hunger for this kind of scientific based knowledge about gw, especially the ice.  Antartica has always held a certain fascination for me. To the point where I resaearched climbling Mt. Discovery, just 20 miles or so from the Ross Ice shelf, what I found was I could never afford such a undertaking.

Within your post you stated “I argue with Denialistas, but I've never cut a diamond and know I'm never going to penetrate their skulls.”
For a while I was just amazed at the mind set of the denialistas, so I did a little research and found a study that suggested, that the denial of gw was is probably a subset of a stronger belief system that lies on a continuum. The study stated that the mindset would include laissez-faire economics, associated political beliefs and conspiracy based thinking. In reading denialistas post on different forums I observed the same thinking….The tragedy of this is, no matter what fact based evidence is presented it only supports the diabolical conspiracy threatening their beliefs. So, ideology trumps facts.

Know I'm off topic a little, but I have know idea when or what will drive membership upwards. I'm surprised that right now this site is not overflowing with membership.

Best,
Bligh

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 10:01:57 PM »
ggelsrinc

QUOTE..."I think the wealth of your forum rests in the scientific knowledge it contains and the members contributing that knowledge so openly"

That is certainly what attracted me to this web site. 

For me there seemed a hunger for this kind of scientific based knowledge about gw, especially the ice.  Antartica has always held a certain fascination for me. To the point where I resaearched climbling Mt. Discovery, just 20 miles or so from the Ross Ice shelf, what I found was I could never afford such a undertaking.

Within your post you stated “I argue with Denialistas, but I've never cut a diamond and know I'm never going to penetrate their skulls.”
For a while I was just amazed at the mind set of the denialistas, so I did a little research and found a study that suggested, that the denial of gw was is probably a subset of a stronger belief system that lies on a continuum. The study stated that the mindset would include laissez-faire economics, associated political beliefs and conspiracy based thinking. In reading denialistas post on different forums I observed the same thinking….The tragedy of this is, no matter what fact based evidence is presented it only supports the diabolical conspiracy threatening their beliefs. So, ideology trumps facts.

Know I'm off topic a little, but I have know idea when or what will drive membership upwards. I'm surprised that right now this site is not overflowing with membership.

Best,
Bligh

Bligh, I'm no thread Nazi, so I use my popularity on this site with reverse psychology and make it 71 and counting. I simply want things like young adults being able to go to the beach and watch the porpoises passing by for two hours or see the Milky Way in Wilmington, DE as a child. Such a request isn't rooted in selfishness, because the memories will live as long as I do.



 

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2013, 02:38:51 AM »
Seems we want the same thing, future generations to enjoy the natural beauty and livable environment that we have enjoyed out entire lives. Perhaps with the carnage I’ve witnessed across the globe, I’ve become a pit of a pessimist. Your sign-off statement CS&N Southern Cross…one can sail determining a true direction from the Southern Cross ..a truly inspiring site, I first saw in the Bay of  Panama around 8.5 deg North it was low in the sky to the South East.

Best.
Bligh

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2013, 01:16:48 PM »
Seems we want the same thing, future generations to enjoy the natural beauty and livable environment that we have enjoyed out entire lives. Perhaps with the carnage I’ve witnessed across the globe, I’ve become a pit of a pessimist. Your sign-off statement CS&N Southern Cross…one can sail determining a true direction from the Southern Cross ..a truly inspiring site, I first saw in the Bay of  Panama around 8.5 deg North it was low in the sky to the South East.

Best.
Bligh

That wasn't a 10/4 or sign off statement. This Mr. Christian just likes to live up to his word like the old one. I said:

Quote
I vow to not do anything directly to persuade people to become members or make up any more meaningless topics

It's utterly foolish to ever vow anything, I've known that and did it anyway. Now I've trapped myself aboard the Bounty until my birthday and it's my own fault. Meaningless topics is all inclusive.

We're down to 69, but Neven seems to know more about new membership than I do.

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2013, 03:25:42 PM »
Enjoy the bread fruit, birthday or not...don't sink the Bounty.
Bligh

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 06:38:32 AM »
Enjoy the bread fruit, birthday or not...don't sink the Bounty.
Bligh

That's funny! The last thing I would notice over there is the breadfruit, even if I was sent to fetch it.

When I was a child about 11, we moved from the city to a rural area. Somehow we (meaning my brothers and I) found this large book stashed away in the attic cubby-hole and it had a title something like "Our Pacific Island Territories" or something similar. The book was huge, more than a foot across and at least 2 feet long, full of group pictures of Islanders in their native clothing or lack thereof. Besides the magic inside that book, it kept disappearing from us, only to be found hidden away often months later over the course of several years.

After my dad passed away, my brothers asked me to research documents about his service, which he never mentioned. My mother told us dad never talked about the war and only once said to her, there were bodies everywhere. I already knew he was underage with a forged birth certificate, because I had seen it and it was the most obvious forgery one could imagine. The date of his birth had the year scratched out with an eraser, tearing the paper and a sloppy number typed in that didn't even line up or come from the same make of typewriter. When I checked the ships he served on, I discovered he first served on an amphibious transport in Okinawa and later on a cruiser converted to mine sweeper that was first to enter Tokyo Harbor. The day my dad turned 18 was September 2, 1945, the official day the Japanese surrendered and the war was over. I can't imagine a better birthday gift than that.

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2013, 02:21:54 PM »
Bruce....I've always found those type of stories interesting, about the war I mean.  Two days ago I was in the dentist office and noticed a elderly gentleman wearing a 79th infantry division cap.  I slid down and talked with him for awhile about his service in the European theater. The language he used was most descriptive about his action across Europe, in the end he would just shake his head and say horrible.  He was wearing two large hearing aids without which he was stone deaf from loading and firing artillery shells. My father was there, also in Korea.....I never knew the guy, he left when I was 2yrs old.

About Tahiti, I sailed into Papeete harbor without an engine....my old volvo md3 had gave way back in the Galapagos. What comes to mind is a book I had read a while back "The Long Way" By  Bernard Moitessier and his own incredible story of his participation in the first Golden Globe Race, a solo, non-stop circumnavigation rounding the three great Capes of Good Hope, Leeuwin, and the Horn, from there he was ahead of his closest competitor by a good deal and would have easily won the race, however he continued on..for reasons he described as, his refusal to except the prize money for the race, from people who did not share the same values as himself. So on he went around Good Hope across the bottom of Australia and eventually back to Papeete where he was so disappointed as he sat on a cement quay watching the cricket's and birds only to be disturbed by the activity on a new dirt road that was now running along the quay.

That dirt road is now a 4 lane highway w/red lights, Papeete reminded me of Detroit in the summer without palm trees.  The French turned the Marquesas, the Tuamotu's and  french Polynesia into a welfare state robbing the indigenous people of their way of life.  Not to mention the atomic bomb testing on the most southern island of the Tuamotu's. They've since decided it was too expensive to keep up and abandoned the whole idea. However, the Marquesas will always be a stand alone environment due to topographic confederations, they are very majestic.

A year ago Tuesday, the HMS Bounty, a half-century-old 180-foot long wooden sailing ship, sank in Hurricane Sandy about 100 miles off Cape Hatteras, North Carolina.  A replica of the 18th century vessel of the same name, it was built as a set for the film "Mutiny on the Bounty." The Coast Guard has been investigating the disaster along with the National Transportation Board. Their conclusions could lead to changes in safety regulations and criminal charges.

I've always felt that incident was criminal....I've read in great detail the coast guard's report.
There were many bad decisions. That said....Boats commit suicide..every time, and their captains let them.

bligh

 
 

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 08:03:35 PM »
If others can go off topic, so can I. I'm an American and my understanding of foreign languages is somewhat limited to Latin, Spanish and German. I think there is beauty in all foreign languages, just like there is beauty in all their people, but beauty is easier to see than a foreign language is to understand.

Let me be direct to my point! Is there an easy way to translate a foreign language, because I'm having problems with my limited language skills reading some recent posts?  I was too busy to learn French well just by hearing it. I remember the Russian great books sucked in translation, when I read them as a child. Do I have to find the Tower of Babel and tear it down to understand what someone is trying to say?

In simple English, what is the best way to translate between languages, because I don't know?

It was 75 and counting before that rant!

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2013, 02:19:51 PM »
In answer to your question about language translation I used several different techniques.
English being the universal or “official language” required around the world for transport purposes meaning every port of entry for shipping Globally must use English. This is also true for air transport as well. I have a very limited understanding of the languages that were required of me , although English was the norm, that was not always the case. In Spanish I simply put the verb before the noun and added “O’s” to the end of every word! This, combined with hand singles worked if used repetitively. So..Port became Porto and Captain became Captaino and like that.
In my wanderings, I was stopped on the streets of Ecuador without my passport in hand. The Policeo  wanted me to come with them to the policeo station,  I insisted the Porto Captaino had my passport (completely irrelevant), however the ever increasing volume and histrionics subdued my adversaries and I was allowed to happily move along.
The French were more arrogant but just as easily manipulated; I often used the…YOU CANT TALK TO ME LIKE THAT…technique, while standing on my toes pointing down at them with a finger. Language skills became a game of will power and a twenty-dollar bill.

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2013, 03:58:29 PM »
Bligh, what you said is very true on a personal level and the next time you should next try Pig Latin, which is a better universal language than English. Hell, if it worked for The Three Stoogies, what more proof does a person need! Either method is fine on a personal level in areas of our world that have some degree of civilization. If someone manages to find themselves in other places, like our internet, it won't work and the person only has themselves to blame. With my sense of humor, I can picture getting shot finding myself in the wrong area of this world.

I can translate some things and read a portion of some languages by myself, but wanted a quick way to put large amounts of text in and get a translation out in an easy to understand language, like Pig Latin. This Ugly American doesn't insist foreign people need to work to understand what I say or hear.

73 and counting, iirc. Neven was right, I've eaten so much spam lately, I have no taste for salt.

The next time you have problems in this area, go up either the Delaware or Chesapeake Bay to get things fixed at our marinas in Delaware or Maryland; it will save you money. Washington to Boston is just a quick train ride away. Watch yourself over in Jersey, because you're living with the cannibals. There are hoods over there in Jersey so bad, I'd rather be in Beirut as a Marine. Take some friendly advice and stay clear of Newark, NJ! NYC isn't bad, but it's expensive. I'd get my boat fixed and get the hell out of Dodge! Only sea salt can remove that skank.

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2013, 11:05:57 PM »
DungeonMaster is working on the spam. He's a fantastic cook.  ;)
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bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2013, 06:13:18 PM »
Bligh, what you said is very true on a personal level and the next time you should next try Pig Latin, which is a better universal language than English. Hell, if it worked for The Three Stoogies, what more proof does a person need! Either method is fine on a personal level in areas of our world that have some degree of civilization. If someone manages to find themselves in other places, like our internet, it won't work and the person only has themselves to blame. With my sense of humor, I can picture getting shot finding myself in the wrong area of this world.

I can translate some things and read a portion of some languages by myself, but wanted a quick way to put large amounts of text in and get a translation out in an easy to understand language, like Pig Latin. This Ugly American doesn't insist foreign people need to work to understand what I say or hear.

73 and counting, iirc. Neven was right, I've eaten so much spam lately, I have no taste for salt.

The next time you have problems in this area, go up either the Delaware or Chesapeake Bay to get things fixed at our marinas in Delaware or Maryland; it will save you money. Washington to Boston is just a quick train ride away. Watch yourself over in Jersey, because you're living with the cannibals. There are hoods over there in Jersey so bad, I'd rather be in Beirut as a Marine. Take some friendly advice and stay clear of Newark, NJ! NYC isn't bad, but it's expensive. I'd get my boat fixed and get the hell out of Dodge! Only sea salt can remove that skank.



The three stooges…..You must be talking about world leaders, political leaders, who at this point should be tried and executed for crimes against humanity.  They know full well what’s going on with this planet of ours and do nothing. It’s a deepening concern about the health of the planet that’s driven me to this website. I see the bulk of materile here is about the Ice, reasonable so.

Where would I put a new post/thread about the health of the worlds oceans and the effects it has on climate change? You know, vertical changes in Bio-mass effecting the carbon pump aligned with global climate.

I’ve been all over the Delaware and Chesapeake bays, Cobbs Marine located at the lower reaches of the Chesapeake is a friendly spot, it’s located within the area of Little Creek.
I’ve been to several marinas near Annapolis which are also nice, but expensive. Pulled out at Gratitude Marine just south of Still Pond(nice anchorage). Been up river to Rock Hall.. quaint little place and of course the Solomon’s to name a few. That said, my passion is open Ocean Sailing and nearing 70,000 nm over 20 yrs I’ve seen my share of things. However, your right about some/most of NJ….wild eyed pistol wavers not afraid to die. Some 80% of the soil in Union county is toxic. The air pollution from the Midwest coal fired power plants is killing everyone.

One would think that just the changing rainfall patterns would be enough to initiate some type of dramatic response from out lackless leadership. For Christ sake right here in NJ if you go outside .. at all .. the changing rainfall patterns could be alarming. A full 20% of what I do when I’m here has become designing and overseeing the construction of underground storm water collection and dispersal systems. We’ve had 2 hundred year rainevents since June. The only response I’ve seen is store owners getting pissed about customers forced to park in 4inches of water.

I’ve seen post on the forum about over population being the root cause of this mess…. that’s bull.  The entire population of the Earth could live in Texas if the appropriate design implications were instituted. Such, could solve a great many problems concerning co2, wide spread (no single point) pollution, energy conservation and distribution problems…..but who the hell wants to live in Texas.

I dropped my hook with the collective voice of humanity a long time ago, and now fear I’ve made a mistake………were pigs…..and our leaders own the barn yard.

So…get off the grid, don’t vote and disappear into the void. Swhat I’m gonna do. And Googles loon is just that….loony.



ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2013, 07:57:24 PM »
The Rest forum is as good a place as any to discuss an important subject like our oceans, our destructive pollution or just talk with someone. I've been to the places you mentioned and Rock Hall is weird, but on the top of my list. That's what happens when people are old and retire in this area. I like it, remember friends who lived there and the bars were good.

I can't afford to drop out of society. I have six children, all "adults", many grandchildren and the heart of a child myself, though the body doesn't know it. I took the time to count my relatives when I was in my 20s and it was something like 350.

Since you are street wise, there isn't any sense in my boring you with my tales of NJ. I will bore you with my experience in Texas. The first time I visited it was a flight to Houston and I was the only person there without a gun. I met plenty of people, men and women and they were all packing guns. It makes me wonder how much Mexico would charge us to give it back to them?

I only have one dog, but many nights.





bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2013, 06:22:23 AM »
One dog and many nights....got a chuckle.

I was just a little agitated earlier....Trying to get some things done here at home while my wife is away on holiday in Virgina and it's just not working out....too many interruptions. You'll perhaps forgive my rant about the destruction of our planet, at times I let it get personal.

Y-e-a....I know about family, I've kids and g/kids, they have their lives and all is well. My son circumnavigated with me, he's hip... married a smart girl..and they are leaving, New Zealand they mentioned...life along the East Coast here is just crazy & no place to raise up a family.

The Oceans are compelling, they beckon me, and again they call...obsessive thinking is not healthy, it matters not,  with a spring in my step and the heart of child next June I'll go, South Georgia below the Arctic circle I would hope to make.  I'm getting a little long in the tooth as you say, but open ocean sailing is a thinking mans game, one need not be young, just vigilant and aware....watch the sky and barometer, set sails by latitude not the weather & it all works out. That's my way of dropping out of things...I'll be gone a year...my poor wife has put up with this her whole life..She's a great women.

I've a dear friend in TX, he's always talking guns and the need for armament and munitions.
Not sure I get that, however earlier on, out sailing I was well armed with a 12 gauge Savage semi-auto, 8 shots as quick as you could pull the trigger.  No more as there's no percentage in it.
This guy is an exception, he's the ONLY person that changed his view on gw after repeated conversations with me. Today he sent me a video on the PIG calving event he found on u-tube.

Be Well
Bligh







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ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2013, 02:13:08 AM »
I'm sorry Bligh, I missed your post on this thread obviously started by a fool. This Gilligan has only been in the open ocean a few times in his life.

I learned long ago to never make plans thinking it will always work out according to my design, regardless of how careful I design it. Time has humbled my youthful arrogance when facing things larger than myself. 

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2013, 09:18:37 PM »
75 and now 76 and counting.

I'm still waiting on my birthday to make my prediction come true, even if it happens afterwards. A late present is better than no present at all, even if you have to buy it yourself.

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2013, 10:33:11 AM »
I had to ban quite a few accounts because of a spambot attack. Hope it doesn't spoil your birthday!  ;) ;D
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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2013, 05:26:49 PM »
I'm sorry Bligh, I missed your post on this thread obviously started by a fool. This Gilligan has only been in the open ocean a few times in his life.

I learned long ago to never make plans thinking it will always work out according to my design, regardless of how careful I design it. Time has humbled my youthful arrogance when facing things larger than myself. 

Sok .. Since then I read an article in the local paper about the sea turtles dying off  the East coast of the US. Turtles being my most favorite of creatures, I read the article with some interest, right up to the point where they starting blaming the turtles for their own demise at which point I threw the paper in the round filing cabinet.



http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/07/29/206497/nature-decline-ocean-phytoplankton

Quote“plant plankton found in the world’s oceans  are crucial to much of life on Earth. They are the foundation of the bountiful marine food web, produce half the world’s oxygen and suck up harmful carbon dioxide.” quote

The several articles I read suggest an over all decline of about 40% in 8 of 10 samplings in different oceans, since 1950. Phytoplankton is responsible for nearly 50% of the bio-mass on Earth.

As I recall the Indian Ocean did not show the same dramatic decline as indicated in other Oceans. Why? not sure…I’ll read some more but an Oceanographer might be better suited for this task. That said; The Indian Ocean is the most violent ocean of all.  There exists a convergence zone south and east of Cape Agulhas of three major Ocean Currents. There is by geographical considerations, almost no Northern Indian Ocean, there is, but it’s really small. The central gyre is trapped between Africa and Australia a small area when one considers the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The Southern Indian Ocean is constantly invaded by huge ground swells driven by rotating storms around Antarctic.
These gravity waves travel thousands of miles and carry with them the energy that created them, I’ve heard this described as the planet breathing, having seen it, the description fits.


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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2013, 01:03:57 PM »
I had to ban quite a few accounts because of a spambot attack. Hope it doesn't spoil your birthday!  ;) ;D

I called it the attack of the French Astrologers. I never realized before then that I can mostly read French, because I never tried.

More topics or more people is win/win for me. I just picked a date to release myself from my no interference agreement. 

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 01:20:33 PM »
I'm sorry Bligh, I missed your post on this thread obviously started by a fool. This Gilligan has only been in the open ocean a few times in his life.

I learned long ago to never make plans thinking it will always work out according to my design, regardless of how careful I design it. Time has humbled my youthful arrogance when facing things larger than myself. 

Sok .. Since then I read an article in the local paper about the sea turtles dying off  the East coast of the US. Turtles being my most favorite of creatures, I read the article with some interest, right up to the point where they starting blaming the turtles for their own demise at which point I threw the paper in the round filing cabinet.



http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2010/07/29/206497/nature-decline-ocean-phytoplankton

Quote“plant plankton found in the world’s oceans  are crucial to much of life on Earth. They are the foundation of the bountiful marine food web, produce half the world’s oxygen and suck up harmful carbon dioxide.” quote

The several articles I read suggest an over all decline of about 40% in 8 of 10 samplings in different oceans, since 1950. Phytoplankton is responsible for nearly 50% of the bio-mass on Earth.

As I recall the Indian Ocean did not show the same dramatic decline as indicated in other Oceans. Why? not sure…I’ll read some more but an Oceanographer might be better suited for this task. That said; The Indian Ocean is the most violent ocean of all.  There exists a convergence zone south and east of Cape Agulhas of three major Ocean Currents. There is by geographical considerations, almost no Northern Indian Ocean, there is, but it’s really small. The central gyre is trapped between Africa and Australia a small area when one considers the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. The Southern Indian Ocean is constantly invaded by huge ground swells driven by rotating storms around Antarctic.
These gravity waves travel thousands of miles and carry with them the energy that created them, I’ve heard this described as the planet breathing, having seen it, the description fits.

The sea turtle thing cuts deeply. They are magnificent creatures worthy of a trip just to watch them come ashore and lay their eggs from a distance.

I can't prove it, but I believe many of the bad reports along the Atlantic coast I've seen lately are the result of Deep Horizon.

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2013, 05:10:53 AM »
gg,

Your right about Sea turtles, they are magnificent creatures. 

It appears in my last post I quoted some information that was, I'm told, is incorrect. The phytoplankton population is not nearly depressed as the articles I referenced indicated. It seems the the methodologies incorporated in their studies were flawed.....good news I guess.

I read today about revisions being made to legislation about the use of fire retardant chemicals used in furniture and other household items where children were being exposed to these chemicals, and how dangerous they were. And, of course the resistance of the chemical industry
to change. And how the older legislation from the 70's did not address the dangers of the nearly 84,000 chemicals used in this country today. Perhaps you were well justified in your assessment of the chemical industry a long time ago. 

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2013, 07:20:46 AM »
gg,

Your right about Sea turtles, they are magnificent creatures. 

It appears in my last post I quoted some information that was, I'm told, is incorrect. The phytoplankton population is not nearly depressed as the articles I referenced indicated. It seems the the methodologies incorporated in their studies were flawed.....good news I guess.

I read today about revisions being made to legislation about the use of fire retardant chemicals used in furniture and other household items where children were being exposed to these chemicals, and how dangerous they were. And, of course the resistance of the chemical industry
to change. And how the older legislation from the 70's did not address the dangers of the nearly 84,000 chemicals used in this country today. Perhaps you were well justified in your assessment of the chemical industry a long time ago.

In '73 I was down around Camp Lejeune, NC with a pregnant wife, when I first learn sea turtles would land on Bear Island. That island was such a comfort from Camp Lejeune that you can't imagine my pleasure in finding it. The Island was approximately three miles long and maybe a half mile wide. It had large sand dunes and a tidal lagoon that made it my paradise. You could swim up to your neck with fish under foot. Try a hell hole like PI and Lejeune and you'll get my drift!

I'm older now and have done my damage in life. If I find out anyone has fucked with my sea turtles, I'm coming after their ass.

Hepp, two three four, this ain't the Vietnam War, so what the hell are we fighting for, this is just a boogey man expedition. 

« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 07:32:52 AM by ggelsrinc »

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2013, 02:40:30 PM »
In yr 2000 10 adult Turtles were taken from the Galapagos National Park's Tortoise Breeding Center at Villamil, on Isabella Island. The center has over 450 adult, juvenile and baby tortoises in total.

The turtles were taken by fisherman and held for ransom demands, the main one being expanding the time frame and quotas involved in cucumber fishing.

Purty funny hu? Turtles for ransom.
 

I, at one time sat on the precipice of Isl. Isabelle, my back to the 2nd largest  volcano caldera in the world, nearly 10 km across. The real view was in front of me, the south pacific, at this height the vast expanse of the s. pacific glittering with a million silver slivers brought a sense of peace, off to the left and right the Ocean passed by, pushed by the never ending trade winds. After awhile it was hard to tell which was moving the Ocean or the Island. I could now understand the ancient beliefs of the Marquises people who thought their islands swam through the Oceans on the back of a turtle. The old ways of the Marquises traditions only live in the minds of the elders. On the island of Uo pou in the Marquises, the Island Chief and I had many discussions about the “old ways” he eventually invited me to his home…here is where it got a little dicey, his house was constructed on rocks, huge rocks, three ft thick and as large as a kitchen table, flat side up and closely knit. How this was done is beyond me. Why it was done was to keep the evil sprits that lived in the ground from invading his home.

The Governor of St Helena in the South Atlantic has his own giant turtle collection. Although the turtles are allowed to wander freely around his personal estate, they are not allowed to return to their natural habitat.



Bruce Steele

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2013, 06:19:55 PM »
Bligh8 , I see Climate Progress has dredged up the old Worm et al 2010 paper on phytoplankton decline again. The paper was a piece of trash and although it was quickly refuted , see below, it gets dredged up much like his prior work that claims ~90% of the worlds large fish will be gone by 2048.
Thanks for researching a little deeper and pulling your reference above.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v472/n7342/abs/nature09950.html

http://spg.ucsd.edu/people/Mati/2011_McQuatters_et_al_Nature_09950.pdf

We in the fishing business would like to be recognized when we get it right and I wonder sometimes why Boris Worm still has a job.

http://blog.nature.org/conservancy/2010/11/29/fisheries-apocalypse-ocean-fish-stock-peter-kareiva-ray-hilborn/



ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2013, 08:28:51 PM »
89 and counting!

When I was a kid we had this swordfish mounted on the wall of our room, that my grandmother caught somewhere around West Palm Beach, Florida. It looked magnificent and lifelike, but as time pasted even very young eyes could see the sorrow. That fish would look better swimming in the ocean than being on my wall.

I remember visiting her parents and being told to be quiet as wild birds would drink from their cups on their porch. I thought that was incredible until I found my butt on Parris Island and noticed the wild birds would run right under the feet of people, because the conduct of those Marines was so controlled that the birds knew they had nothing to fear. You weren't allowed to hurt a sand flea there.

Camp Lejeune had some deer populations that were incredible and there were forest fires picturing hell on earth for weeks when I first arrived at Camp Geiger for infantry training. There were dangers like artillery or small weapons fire ranges, but no hunting and the deer adjusted to that environment. Before I was living off base and noticed you could see hundreds of deer each day, coming and going, I took an independent journey through the woods to test my abilities of using a compass, I acquired some way. I ran head long into a herd of deer that was incredible. I was standing in awe for what I guess was five minutes as deer passed by my side as if I was a tree. There were so many deer that they blocked the view as they moved forward at a pace. Some would look startled with their world changing from the behind of another deer to a human being facing them, but they just passed me by very closely, I mean I could touch them.

The reason I bring up these stories is we owe something to the plants and animals who live with us and not just concerns about the fate of the human race. If you can't be concerned for the least amongst us, you will never be concerned for the most. 

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2013, 02:34:54 AM »

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2013, 03:27:13 PM »
Bligh8 , I see Climate Progress has dredged up the old Worm et al 2010 paper on phytoplankton decline again. The paper was a piece of trash and although it was quickly refuted , see below, it gets dredged up much like his prior work that claims ~90% of the worlds large fish will be gone by 2048.
Thanks for researching a little deeper and pulling your reference above.

Thanks Bruce,  Yea I was just a little horrified when I realized what I had done.  Posting BS anywhere on the internet should be frowned upon, but on a scientific site like this one should be especially careful ... cross referencing their source several times as garbage is garbage.

Anymore news on our starfish?

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2013, 03:42:33 PM »
gg

It was a different world back in 73...now days, along the North East coast, one, on most days cannot see their feet while standing in Ocean water.

Never knew my father because of the Military, and more recently, a family tragedy with the BS in Afghanistan,  I've mixed feelings about the Military.

Happy belated birthday ..  Enjoy

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2013, 08:50:33 PM »
gg

It was a different world back in 73...now days, along the North East coast, one, on most days cannot see their feet while standing in Ocean water.

Never knew my father because of the Military, and more recently, a family tragedy with the BS in Afghanistan,  I've mixed feelings about the Military.

Happy belated birthday ..  Enjoy

My birthday is Feb 22, George Washington's birthday and I didn't have to go to school back in those days.

Here is my Thanksgiving Day present for all the Doomsdayers still alive:


ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2013, 04:34:54 AM »
Damn, it's 90 now! I'm so glad to get so many enemies! It must be personality. I've found several methods to yank a chain. Ho, why did I even post this or anything in a discussion environment and not realize it's a waste of time talking to idiots. People who don't know information are idiots, so figure out the difference. The world isn't that complicated even for a retard. Have you ever taught one, because they seem to snap out of that that once old enough line you draw?

It's only a minor course in my life, but try it for fun.

I don't think it's possible for a human being to know everything, because there is too much to know and only so much time.

Knowing everything is a human requirement to exist. Have you people ever experienced a person dying? It doesn't come easy from a bullet or any other device invented by mankind.

All things are possible and none of us are a gift to the Earth, unless we make ourselves a gift. Figure it out!

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2013, 08:16:34 AM »
Even the scum of the Earth has some purpose.

Neven

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2013, 09:24:26 AM »
Maybe I'm dim, but I don't understand what the context for the past two remarks is. Would you mind explaining what you're trying to say and at whom it is aimed, ggelsrinc?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2013, 06:34:45 PM »
gg…..My presence on this scientific forum was driven by a “need to know” My observations about global changing wind patterns are described here as “ changing Hadley Cells” and expanding tropical zones. My observations about a changing Ocean are described in scientific terms.

The interjection of philosophy in “it’s a wonderful life” is simply a contemporary individual experience.  Trying to feed this into Global Warming just does not fit and will understandingly result in dissent.

My remarks about the Turtles were meant to be entertainment….not science.
The birthday remark was simply to wish you well, regardless of the date. As it had been mentioned before.

If you wish to understand the true nature of man, go walking in a relatively unexplored area of the world…else you be disillusioned…do not turn over the rocks.

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2013, 10:25:34 PM »
Maybe I'm dim, but I don't understand what the context for the past two remarks is. Would you mind explaining what you're trying to say and at whom it is aimed, ggelsrinc?

It's biology, Neven and not aimed at anyone. It means even a microbe is important to all of us.

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2013, 10:44:53 PM »
gg…..My presence on this scientific forum was driven by a “need to know” My observations about global changing wind patterns are described here as “ changing Hadley Cells” and expanding tropical zones. My observations about a changing Ocean are described in scientific terms.

The interjection of philosophy in “it’s a wonderful life” is simply a contemporary individual experience.  Trying to feed this into Global Warming just does not fit and will understandingly result in dissent.

My remarks about the Turtles were meant to be entertainment….not science.
The birthday remark was simply to wish you well, regardless of the date. As it had been mentioned before.

If you wish to understand the true nature of man, go walking in a relatively unexplored area of the world…else you be disillusioned…do not turn over the rocks.

I agree.

I wouldn't mind exploring my world physically more, but I'm tied to an anchor named Lucy the Goosey, an Old English Mastiff dog, that it's my duty to care for. Even though she was somehow dumped in my lap by doing a neighbor a favor, it's my job to care for her and she's been around since a pup. She is so attached to me, there were times I had a hard time going to the bathroom without hearing her whimper on the other side of the door.

I do take my responsibilities in life very seriously, but being old, walking instead of driving, takes it's toll. When I get to Heaven, I want to see a negative carbon balance on my sheet.

Neven

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2013, 10:46:56 PM »
Maybe I'm dim, but I don't understand what the context for the past two remarks is. Would you mind explaining what you're trying to say and at whom it is aimed, ggelsrinc?

It's biology, Neven and not aimed at anyone. It means even a microbe is important to all of us.

I was referring to this:

"Ho, why did I even post this or anything in a discussion environment and not realize it's a waste of time talking to idiots. People who don't know information are idiots, so figure out the difference. The world isn't that complicated even for a retard. Have you ever taught one, because they seem to snap out of that that once old enough line you draw?"

Please, explain what you meant by this and who it was aimed at.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

ggelsrinc

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2013, 11:47:34 PM »
Maybe I'm dim, but I don't understand what the context for the past two remarks is. Would you mind explaining what you're trying to say and at whom it is aimed, ggelsrinc?

It's biology, Neven and not aimed at anyone. It means even a microbe is important to all of us.

I was referring to this:

"Ho, why did I even post this or anything in a discussion environment and not realize it's a waste of time talking to idiots. People who don't know information are idiots, so figure out the difference. The world isn't that complicated even for a retard. Have you ever taught one, because they seem to snap out of that that once old enough line you draw?"

Please, explain what you meant by this and who it was aimed at.

I don't need to take cheap shots like some people obviously do.

My next door neighbor was a retard (according to claims) and I talked to him once he became old enough and told him he wasn't a retard. About a year later, he was going to college.

I've learned in my life no one has the right to lord over another person, no matter how smart they are. I'm here to discuss science and if my point of view differs from another's, so what? Time will determine the future and the more time we waste, the worse our world will become.

The scum of the Earth are microbes and they are very important. So is everything else! 

wili

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2013, 11:18:42 AM »
Neven, I fear you will start loosing contributors and even lurkers when offensive terms start being regularly used on the site.

https://www.google.com/search?q=r&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=retard&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial

Quote
noun
offensive
noun: retard; plural noun: retards
ˈrēˌtärd/

    1.
    a mentally handicapped person (often used as a general term of abuse).

« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 11:25:28 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

bligh8

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2013, 03:36:40 PM »
Ahhh….come on Wili, You mean to say that you’ve never uttered an offensive or derogatory word on this forum, I’ve seen them everywhere.

What I find truly offensive is that what’s discussed here is not discussed on the most widely available form of communications.  Even Doctors have an ethical responsibility to inform their sick folks that they are dying.

In all my travels I have found that even the poorest folks have at least two items in their home, a tv and a mattress. This is true everywhere, amongst the squalor of tin shacks across central America to the poorest folks in Asia,  .

And yet, here in America some politician’s will not even utter the words ..Global Warming on tv, They’ll make vague reference to climate change but will not say gw.  That’s offensive.

Words of a by gone era when the term political correctness had not been thought of has change our language usage to, in my opinion, absurd levels.  Should we not say blind and instead say visually challenged?  Else we loose members?  You sure it’s not your problem of another definition.

Neven

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2013, 03:43:09 PM »
Neven, I fear you will start loosing contributors and even lurkers when offensive terms start being regularly used on the site.

I fear you're right. The only reason I've tolerated it so far, is that it's the quiet season. But I'm about done with it.
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ccgwebmaster

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Re: When will the amount of members at ASIF exceed the amount of topics?
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2013, 04:31:08 PM »
Neven, I fear you will start loosing contributors and even lurkers when offensive terms start being regularly used on the site.

Reams of (often) ill informed wittering that repeatedly demonstrates a failure to learn from (or even pay any attention to, or engage with) evidence speaks to me more of a psychological/psychiatric condition and some related profound need for attention from others.

As such my main concern is the quality of discussions is diluted and the meaningfulness of participation diminished - the odd insult one can shrug off (and indeed everyone can be guilty of such in the heat of the moment - though I agree that persistent insults lower the tone just as surely as destroying the quality of discussions does).