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Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #150 on: May 09, 2018, 02:43:20 PM »
More appropriate here than the Bikes thread, I think. :) 

New electric hydrofoil bike helps you fly above the waves with a 400 W motor
Quote
Hydrofoils work like airplane wings underwater. The faster the craft moves, the more lift is generated by the hydrofoils. By placing the hydrofoils and propellor at the bottom of the XE-1, they remain the only components left in the water at cruising speed, which means you need much less power and energy to maintain your speed.

This added efficiency helps the XE-1 reach an average cruising speed of 11-14 km/h (6.8-8.7 mph), though Manta5 claims that experienced (and fit) users can achieve even higher speeds.

Power is provided by a combination of your own two legs and a 400 W electric bicycle mid-drive motor that adds power assist as you begin to pedal. The power assist is variable and user-selectable, meaning you can either get a harder workout or just fly around the bay with ease.

The XE-1 is designed for both calm and choppy water, meaning you can operate it everywhere from lakes and rivers to even the open ocean.
https://electrek.co/2018/05/08/electric-hydrofoil-bike-above-waves/
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TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #151 on: May 09, 2018, 05:37:37 PM »
Rotor Sail Installed on Viking Grace for Wind Propulsion
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/18835-rotor-sail-installed-on-viking-grace-for-wind-propulsion.html

Quote
The Rotor Sail Solution will cut fuel consumption and reduce carbon emissions by up to 900 tons annually, the company said.

The cylindrical Rotor Sail unit installed on the Viking Grace is 24m in height and 4m in diameter, and is a modernized version of the Flettner rotor; a spinning cylinder that uses the Magnus effect to harness wind power to propel a ship. The solution is fully automated and senses whenever the wind is strong enough to deliver fuel savings, at which point the rotors start automatically – optimizing crew time and resource.


I've so many questions about this:


Windage needs to be taken into consideration.
Clearance under bridges and obstructions.
No way to furl the sail in inclement weather.


Then I recall problems that Cuseau had with his application. IIRC they lost the boat in gale force winds.


A small one principally for advertising purposes is probably OK, but the larger it is the more effective it becomes and the more problems it engenders.


The technology has been around for 150 years, there's no reason to think it will catch on now.
Terry

Bob Wallace

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #152 on: May 09, 2018, 10:40:32 PM »
Quote
The technology has been around for 150 years, there's no reason to think it will catch on now.

Best to not think that way.  The EV was around over 100 years ago, wasn't successful for a century and is now poised to push ICEVs into a tiny niche.

We have different needs now.  We've got a climate to protect and we're putting much higher value on human and ecological health.  That means that we should look at ideas that didn't win during the era of cheap and dirty fuel.  Maybe we can take the basic concept and upgrade it into something useful.

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #153 on: May 10, 2018, 04:16:47 PM »
I know 'nothing' about the Rotor Sail, but surely it is only a matter of engineering to be able to lay it down so that it can go under bridges or deminish trauma during a storm.
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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #154 on: May 10, 2018, 04:50:56 PM »
Electric Propel, Zero Emission, Easy to Use
Electric Propulsion Outboards (3HP - 50 HP)



Quote
A growing number of boat owners favours electric propulsion to power their boats, yachts, and cruisers. Electric motors are quiet, clean, reliable and economical to run. Electric propulsion makes for a very pleasant trip thanks to the absence of noise, fumes or vibrations, and the bilge stays nice and clean with no oil or grease fouling the timber. Batteries offer the option of recharging with renewable energy (solar and wind) making a boat potentially energy independent. With only few moving parts there is little that can wear out or break down, making electric motors a reliable option and virtually maintenance free.[/quote]


https://www.goldenmotor.com/eBoat/frame-eboat.htm
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #155 on: May 10, 2018, 05:03:26 PM »
I know 'nothing' about the Rotor Sail, but surely it is only a matter of engineering to be able to lay it down so that it can go under bridges or deminish trauma during a storm.

With fins folded against the cylinder/tower it might be possible to lower the cylinder into the vessel.  It might even be possible to fold only lower fins and partially retract the cylinder in order to "reef the sail" in stronger winds.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #156 on: May 10, 2018, 06:29:01 PM »
IIRC the problem the Cuseaus faced was the windage of the drum itself. Stopping the rotation "furled" the beast, but the drum needed to be quite wide and tall to be effective.
I'd thought at the time that they could have had a set of drums of diminishing breadth that would nessle down inside each other when not in use - but at that time I was trying to work out how the ancient Sumerians were sailing into the wind with no keels.
Fore and aft steering oars were the answer, but it took a lot of time to discover it, and to verify that this was actually how they did it.
Tapering lower and upper yard arms allowed them to rig a very effective airfoil, the other necessity for upwind sailing.

Sorry about the diversion.
Terry

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #157 on: May 10, 2018, 09:24:31 PM »
IIRC the problem the Cuseaus faced was the windage of the drum itself. Stopping the rotation "furled" the beast, but the drum needed to be quite wide and tall to be effective.
I'd thought at the time that they could have had a set of drums of diminishing breadth that would nessle down inside each other when not in use - but at that time I was trying to work out how the ancient Sumerians were sailing into the wind with no keels.
Fore and aft steering oars were the answer, but it took a lot of time to discover it, and to verify that this was actually how they did it.
Tapering lower and upper yard arms allowed them to rig a very effective airfoil, the other necessity for upwind sailing.

Sorry about the diversion.
Terry

looking at the modern design of jet turbines, the power level of diesel engines and the design of propellers, just to name a few, and then looking back what kind of serious problems there were in the first day of their existence and sometimes for decades, i'm confident that in for this kind of tech issues engineers will ultimately find solutions.

Certainly technology is not the solution for everything but most often technology solves technological problems.

However, the only sure way to fail is to do/try nothing, hence i tend to be an optimist with a realistic touch rather than a realist with a pessimistic touch ;)

Bob Wallace

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #158 on: May 10, 2018, 10:56:20 PM »
You could be an optimistic realist.  In reality we solve a lot of problems.

Realistically, it sometimes takes time to figure out the answer.

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #159 on: May 13, 2018, 08:16:10 AM »
A 3-5% reduction in fuel per rotor sail, there are ships sailing with those installed. Installation costs are 1-2 million euros per sail, so they will probably be cost effective on windy routes, but not effective in mitigation terms.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #160 on: May 20, 2018, 09:31:01 PM »
Adaptable and driven by renewable energy, saildrones voyage into remote waters
Quote
These environmentally friendly saildrones—solar panels power the sensors, and wind propels the drones—can sail for months at a time and cover thousands of miles while constantly relaying data via satellite to onshore operators. Operators can also make course adjustments to further investigate any areas of interest. This adaptive capability allows saildrones to follow fur seals as they hunt for food or zig-zag across oceanic eddies or fronts—capabilities traditional monitoring methods don’t possess.
...

Making the most of the short Arctic summer

During a mission launched in July 2017, PMEL and Fisheries researchers sent saildrones to the rough waters of the Bering Sea and the Arctic. They searched for tagged fur seals, carried out fish surveys, and studied ocean-atmosphere interactions and gas flux. Traditional Arctic monitoring is challenged by high costs and a short ice-free window of opportunity for vessels to sail north, but thanks to their renewable power supply, saildrones have more endurance and can venture farther than any vessel—with no risk to human passengers. ...
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-tech/adaptable-and-driven-renewable-energy-saildrones-voyage-remote-waters
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #161 on: May 20, 2018, 09:36:56 PM »
Based on the saildrones...

Using uncrewed freight sailboats could work well by having an onshore crew  monitoring hundreds of wind powered transport ships via onship sensors and making any course changes needed. 

For example, if harbors were crowded vessels could be instructed to furl and wait a short distance offshore.  Or diverted to a less busy port. 

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #162 on: May 20, 2018, 10:26:21 PM »
I've long been captivated by sail.
We've been bending the wind and sailing into it for at least 4,000 years, possibly a much longer time.


Just as adding wind turbines to the renewable grid can solve many of the peak problems, adding sailing vessels to the maritime freight mix can provide a pollution free alternative to long distance shipping. Batteries and solar for in shore work, sail for crossing the vast oceans.


What's not to like?
Terry

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #163 on: June 12, 2018, 10:38:26 PM »
Solar Powered Yacht Is Being Called Tesla Of The Seas

Except....it costs a wee bit more than a Tesla.  3.1 million US dollars as of this March.  Solarwave is the manufacturer of the boat, and they are a Swiss company (although I believe they manufacture in Spain).

This is their 74 foot "power catamaran".  Cat's are apparently gaining in popularity, both in sailboats AND motor yachts (more room.... more stability apparently).

Quote
CEO Michael Köhler of Solarwave Yachts says the motor only has one moving part, the motor, and two bearings. That means this motor can go maintenance-free for 50-thousand hours. "So even our grandchildren won't have to change the bearings," brags Michael Köhler.

The interesting thing to me ..... in studying the ECONOMICS of the issue .... is, just like cars, the maintenance costs drop to close to zero.... and the running costs drop WAY...WAY DOWN.  As the cost of batteries and solar panels continue to drop, this will put another dent in fossil fuels future.

They also manufacture a 55 footer and a 64 footer.  I believe the 55 is about $1.5 mill US if I am not mistaken.  Certainly a lot of coin.  :o

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #164 on: August 17, 2018, 10:47:20 PM »
Rolls-Royce launches new battery system to electrify ships
Quote
Ground transport is currently leading the transition to electric propulsion, but maritime transport is now starting to see its share of electrification and Rolls-Royce wants in.  The British power system company is launching a new battery system to electrify ships.
 
Rolls-Royce describes the new system called ‘SAVe Energy’:

“Rolls-Royce now offers SAVe Energy, a cost competitive, highly efficient and liquid cooled battery system with a modular design that enables the product to scale according to energy and power requirements. SAVe Energy comply with international legislations for low and zero emission propulsion systems.”

The company has been working on battery systems for years, but the recent improvements in li-ion batteries are now resulting in a boom of electrification of ships.

Andreas Seth, Rolls-Royce, EVP Electrical, Automation and Control for Commercial Marine, said the company expects to deploy more batteries next year than they did over the last 8 years combined:...
https://electrek.co/2018/08/17/rolls-royce-new-battery-system-electric-ship-boat/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #165 on: October 06, 2018, 04:58:17 PM »
New service to provide New York City’s first electric ferry plus door-to-door e-commuting
Quote
In 2019, New York City will temporarily close the L train subway – a crucial line moving commuters between Manhattan and Brooklyn. The city hopes to alleviate the inevitable commuting nightmare with alternative bus routes and even rentable electric bicycles. However, a new electric ferry service combined with a complete electric vehicle transportation suite could help take the edge off commuters’ struggles.

SW/TCH E-Mobility (presumably pronounced “switch”) is a new electric transportation company based around multiple modes of EV commuting. The company is planning to offer NYC’s first electric-powered ferry combined with a seamlessly integrated e-commuting fleet onshore.
...
SW/TCH membership plans provide their members with access to a fleet of e-commuting options through its app, including electric van and mini-shuttles for last mile drop-off from the ferry dock, as well as electric mopeds, e-bikes, e-scooters and e-skateboards that members can borrow for the day.
...
https://electrek.co/2018/10/05/switch-electric-ferry-service/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #166 on: November 04, 2018, 02:12:20 PM »
Russia's Dry Dock Accident Could Have Far Larger Repercussions Than A Damaged Carrier
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A day after Russia's massive PD-50 drydock suddenly sank underneath the country's only aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, as it was receiving a long-awaited overhaul in frigid Murmansk, just how big a deal this may end up being for the Russian Navy is becoming clearer. The dry dock, which is the largest of its kind in Russian hands, appears to have sunk at first on a steep incline before it disappeared totally beneath the water's surface. Russian officials are now saying that it could be many months before it is raised from the seabed 160 feet below and that doing so would be a very tedious and delicate operation. That's if they decide to salvage it at all.

Regardless, PD-50 services all types of vessels that make up Russia's most powerful fleet, including its largest submarines. So leaving it out of action for years, or even losing it altogether, would be a major hit for the Northern Fleet and the Russian Navy's overall readiness.
Quote
A cursory look of the sprawling constellation of naval installations in the region turns up no other dry dock that seems adept at hosting the largest of Russia's submarines, with all being in the sub-450 foot size range. And even if there was one, the capacity loss of such an important asset, one that can be seen servicing multiple vessels at one time due to its huge size, is a major blow for the Russian Navy and its fledgling modernization efforts.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/24572/russias-dry-dock-accident-could-have-far-larger-repercussions-than-a-damaged-carrier
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #167 on: November 07, 2018, 08:22:47 PM »
Two big new all-electric ferries are coming to Canada
Quote
Schottel and Damen Shipyards are partnering up to equip the first all-electric vessels to operate in Canada.
They are going to work on the two new ferries serving the Amherst Island and Wolfe Island in Ontario.

The conversion will include equipping the ships with four electric twin propellers, STP 260 FP from Schottel, each with an input power of up to 550 kW.

A battery pack system will be installed onboard to power the propellers and a diesel generator will serve as backup power.

They expect the vessels to have a similar capacity as the conventional ferries with speeds up to 12 knots, but it will also “reduce emissions by the equivalent of 7 million kg carbon dioxide per year.”

Delivery of the Amherst Island ferry, which has a length of 68 m, a width of 25 m and can accommodate up to 300 people and 42 cars, is expected in 2020. The Wolfe Island ferry, which is even bigger with a length of 98 m, a width of 25 m and can transport up to 399 passengers and 75 cars, is scheduled for delivery in 2021.
https://electrek.co/2018/11/07/all-electric-ferries-canada/
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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #168 on: November 19, 2018, 09:51:34 AM »
https://www.hhferriesgroup.com/hh-ferries-group-inaugurates-the-worlds-largest-battery-powered-ferries/
Quote
The battery project on Tycho Brahe and Aurora has lasted more than three years, and with a financial scope of around SEK 300 million, it is HH Ferries Group’s largest single investment ever. INEA, the European Union’s executive agency for innovation and network, has supported the project with around SEK 120 million, and the result has been ground-breaking in the maritime world in several ways.

In each port, automatic land-based charging stations equipped with industrial robots perform the connection and maximizes the charging period to enable efficient charging of each vessel’s 640 batteries within a few minutes. The combined battery power of 8,320 kWh for the two ferries is equivalent to 10,700 car batteries. The batteries are located on top of the ferries along with two deckhouses for transformers, converters and cooling systems. From here, cables run to docking points at each end of the vessel, ensuring that the batteries can be charged swiftly and without complications at each docking – with the power of 70 electric cars.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #169 on: November 19, 2018, 07:33:57 PM »
Good idea, or not so good?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/19/dead-fish-to-power-cruise-ships-norwegian-biogas

Dead fish to power cruise ships
Norwegian company to fuel liners with biogas made from leftovers of fish processing

Quote
Waste fish parts will be used to power ships in a new initiative to use green energy for polluting cruise liners. The leftovers of fish processed for food and mixed with other organic waste will be used to generate biogas, which will then be liquefied and used in place of fossil fuels by the expedition cruise line Hurtigruten.

I am reminded of bio-fuels from sugar and corn, (and palm-oil?). Originally, the idea was to make use of excess capacity. But as the market for bio-fuels grew, farmers and plantation owners developed new acreage in vast quantities, destroying eco-systems as they went along.

The cynic in me can see in a few years trawlers out there fishing to supply the biogas industry rather than fishing for food.
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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #170 on: November 20, 2018, 02:01:02 AM »
We have already massively over-fished the oceans without adding biofuel demand as well, humans are just too smart/stupid for our own good it regularly seems.

Darvince

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #171 on: December 02, 2018, 12:46:07 PM »
If there could be strict rules on the use of the fish-based biogas, say perhaps no new fishing to source biogas allowed, it could be overall a good thing. And fishing is no stranger to strict regulations with many places having limits on how many fish can be caught in each year.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #172 on: December 03, 2018, 01:46:31 AM »
Good idea, or not so good?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/19/dead-fish-to-power-cruise-ships-norwegian-biogas

Dead fish to power cruise ships
Norwegian company to fuel liners with biogas made from leftovers of fish processing

Quote
Waste fish parts will be used to power ships in a new initiative to use green energy for polluting cruise liners. The leftovers of fish processed for food and mixed with other organic waste will be used to generate biogas, which will then be liquefied and used in place of fossil fuels by the expedition cruise line Hurtigruten.

I am reminded of bio-fuels from sugar and corn, (and palm-oil?). Originally, the idea was to make use of excess capacity. But as the market for bio-fuels grew, farmers and plantation owners developed new acreage in vast quantities, destroying eco-systems as they went along.

The cynic in me can see in a few years trawlers out there fishing to supply the biogas industry rather than fishing for food.


If they aren't deliberately fishing for bio, they might be (even)? less careful about what gets entangled in their nets.


I applaud their use of LNG, though I'm less than sure that bio-gas can compete price wise.


How would a "large battery" be of use on a cruise ship? These are not ferries that can be recharged through the day, but cruise ships that are away from their home port for weeks or months. A generator on board that charges a "large" battery, which then powers dim lights, chills the wine, amplifies the sonorous music and lights cigars for the gentry, simply isn't as efficient as using the generator to perform all of these most necessary functions.


Ah - The amenities available to those "Job Providers" as they sail from mansion to mansion, and the privations they so willingly accept to make the world more livable, even for the little people. ???


Terry





zizek

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #173 on: December 03, 2018, 02:13:57 AM »
If there could be strict rules on the use of the fish-based biogas, say perhaps no new fishing to source biogas allowed, it could be overall a good thing. And fishing is no stranger to strict regulations with many places having limits on how many fish can be caught in each year.
Those strict rules don't mean much in the open ocean where every country in the world wants a piece of the pie.

zizek

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #174 on: December 03, 2018, 02:19:02 AM »
Good idea, or not so good?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/19/dead-fish-to-power-cruise-ships-norwegian-biogas

Dead fish to power cruise ships
Norwegian company to fuel liners with biogas made from leftovers of fish processing

Quote
Waste fish parts will be used to power ships in a new initiative to use green energy for polluting cruise liners. The leftovers of fish processed for food and mixed with other organic waste will be used to generate biogas, which will then be liquefied and used in place of fossil fuels by the expedition cruise line Hurtigruten.

I am reminded of bio-fuels from sugar and corn, (and palm-oil?). Originally, the idea was to make use of excess capacity. But as the market for bio-fuels grew, farmers and plantation owners developed new acreage in vast quantities, destroying eco-systems as they went along.

The cynic in me can see in a few years trawlers out there fishing to supply the biogas industry rather than fishing for food.


If they aren't deliberately fishing for bio, they might be (even)? less careful about what gets entangled in their nets.


I applaud their use of LNG, though I'm less than sure that bio-gas can compete price wise.


How would a "large battery" be of use on a cruise ship? These are not ferries that can be recharged through the day, but cruise ships that are away from their home port for weeks or months. A generator on board that charges a "large" battery, which then powers dim lights, chills the wine, amplifies the sonorous music and lights cigars for the gentry, simply isn't as efficient as using the generator to perform all of these most necessary functions.


Ah - The amenities available to those "Job Providers" as they sail from mansion to mansion, and the privations they so willingly accept to make the world more livable, even for the little people. ???


Terry

Large batteries used in vessels are sort of equivalent to a hybrid car. The transient loading of cruise ships and other vessels (especially tugs) can use their diesel generators at optimal loading and significantly reduce their fuel consumption, toxic emissions, vibration and noise.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #175 on: December 03, 2018, 03:19:00 AM »

Large batteries used in vessels are sort of equivalent to a hybrid car. The transient loading of cruise ships and other vessels (especially tugs) can use their diesel generators at optimal loading and significantly reduce their fuel consumption, toxic emissions, vibration and noise.
Just staying on topic. 8)



Does losing 15% of the available energy to charge a "large" battery really save energy? Besides these cruise ship don't use diesel generators, they're powered by LNG, possibly bio-generated LNG.(when fueling up at a home port)


Even hybrid cars don't even use "large" batteries, it helps in keeping the weight down.


EV cruise ships are a transparent attempt to Green-Wash the very inefficient floating palaces preferred by a fraction of the most ostentatiously wealthy.


"We left the jet at home so we could hobnob with the European set. We'll have it pick us up after we dock in Monaco."
"Ciao for now"


You can almost hear the conversation around the Captain's Table as they enter Port Lockroy and prepare to disembark to visit the museum and disturb the penguins.
Terry

zizek

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #176 on: December 03, 2018, 04:21:13 AM »
It's definitely green-washing in some respects, mostly because it'll be advertised as "battery powered", and people will immediately think plug-in. But in reality it's just a way to reduce fuel consumption (I've seen as much as 30%). You can't really apply your typical thinking regarding batteries in vessels, it's a different beast. The battery isn't going to "drive" the vessel. If the propulsion plant is 20,000kW, the battery may only be 500 kW. But that 500kW can make sure that your engines will run at optimal efficiency, and when you're in port, you can even shut off your engines. This translates to significant fuel savings.

Cruises are horrible. And no amount of technology is going to negate the burden thesee excessive vacations put on this planet.
But the technology they are using is sound. We are seeing huge advantages of using battery-hybrid vessels along with LNG (either as dual-diesel or as a gas engine, and even turbines).  The problem is the maritime industry is very slow moving, so it'll be a while before companies fleets will be switched over to more "efficient" propulsion systems. And by then, it'll be too late.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #177 on: December 03, 2018, 05:24:54 AM »

But the technology they are using is sound. We are seeing huge advantages of using battery-hybrid vessels along with LNG (either as dual-diesel or as a gas engine, and even turbines).  The problem is the maritime industry is very slow moving, so it'll be a while before companies fleets will be switched over to more "efficient" propulsion systems. And by then, it'll be too late.


I believe I've posted about the Russians putting the first LNG powered container ship into operation. If China follows Russia's lead the switchover may come sooner than we'd otherwise expect. I thinks it's still too early to know if that will be too late.


Europe has made noises about restricting bunker fuel ships from some of their ports. If they got serious, and the Arctic Council acted to bar diesel from the Arctic, it might not be long before at least the majority of ships were burning something other than bunker fuel.


Personally I'm inclined to believe that everything we do from here on in is already to late, but I've been wrong any times in the past. ;)
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #178 on: December 08, 2018, 08:23:36 PM »
World’s largest container shipping group Maersk pledges to cut all carbon emissions...by 2050
Quote
According to an FT report, Maersk’s COO heralded the news:
“We will have to abandon fossil fuels. We will have to find a different type of fuel or a different way to power our assets. This is not just another cost-cutting exercise. It’s far from that. It’s an existential exercise, where we as a company need to set ourselves apart. We’ve been able to absorb the last 10 years’ growth without adding to CO2 emissions. It’s a good starting point but it’s not enough . . . Not just governments and countries, but also companies and industries need to make a change. The maritime industry and Maersk need to take their responsibility,” he added.

Maersk spun off its Oil division earlier this year to Total. That in of itself rid the company of the footprint of about 600,000 barrels of oil a day. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/12/06/maersk-carbon-emissions/

“While 2050 is more than a generation away, the 20-25 year life cycle of these ships means that Maersk must start building these zero carbon ships exclusively in 2025-2030 which is just 7-12 years off.”
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #179 on: January 02, 2019, 07:39:51 PM »
Rolls Royce & Finferries Put To Sea In An Autonomous Ferry
Quote
The Falco used a combination of Rolls-Royce Ship Intelligence technologies to successfully navigate autonomously during its voyage between Parainen and Nauvo in the southwestern part of the country. It is equipped with a range of advanced sensors which allows it to build a detailed picture of its surroundings in real time and with a level of accuracy beyond that of the human eye according to a Rolls Royce press release. The vessel was able to avoid potential collisions along the route using sensor fusion and artificial intelligence.

The Falco is also equipped with an autonomous docking system that can reduce speed and guide the vessel to a safe and secure berth once it arrives at its destination. One additional advantage of the autonomous hardware and systems is that the vessel can be controlled remotely by a “virtual captain” at the Finferries operation center in the city of Turku, 50 kilometers away. The Falco made its way back to its point of origin by remote control. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/02/rolls-royce-finferries-put-to-sea-in-an-autonomous-ferry/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #180 on: January 02, 2019, 10:04:09 PM »
Rolls Royce & Finferries Put To Sea In An Autonomous Ferry
Quote
The Falco used a combination of Rolls-Royce Ship Intelligence technologies to successfully navigate autonomously during its voyage between Parainen and Nauvo in the southwestern part of the country. It is equipped with a range of advanced sensors which allows it to build a detailed picture of its surroundings in real time and with a level of accuracy beyond that of the human eye according to a Rolls Royce press release. The vessel was able to avoid potential collisions along the route using sensor fusion and artificial intelligence.

The Falco is also equipped with an autonomous docking system that can reduce speed and guide the vessel to a safe and secure berth once it arrives at its destination. One additional advantage of the autonomous hardware and systems is that the vessel can be controlled remotely by a “virtual captain” at the Finferries operation center in the city of Turku, 50 kilometers away. The Falco made its way back to its point of origin by remote control. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/02/rolls-royce-finferries-put-to-sea-in-an-autonomous-ferry/


WHY?
Terry

Sebastian Jones

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #181 on: January 03, 2019, 12:55:11 AM »
Rolls Royce & Finferries Put To Sea In An Autonomous Ferry
Quote
The Falco used a combination of Rolls-Royce Ship Intelligence technologies to successfully navigate autonomously during its voyage between Parainen and Nauvo in the southwestern part of the country. It is equipped with a range of advanced sensors which allows it to build a detailed picture of its surroundings in real time and with a level of accuracy beyond that of the human eye according to a Rolls Royce press release. The vessel was able to avoid potential collisions along the route using sensor fusion and artificial intelligence.

The Falco is also equipped with an autonomous docking system that can reduce speed and guide the vessel to a safe and secure berth once it arrives at its destination. One additional advantage of the autonomous hardware and systems is that the vessel can be controlled remotely by a “virtual captain” at the Finferries operation center in the city of Turku, 50 kilometers away. The Falco made its way back to its point of origin by remote control. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/02/rolls-royce-finferries-put-to-sea-in-an-autonomous-ferry/


WHY?
Terry
Fewer crew are required.The crew can be sitting in an office anywhere with an internet connection (such as a call centre in India) and each crew can remotely operate multiple vessels. Mines are doing the same thing now. It saves them a bundle.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #182 on: January 03, 2019, 07:40:33 AM »

Rolls Royce & Finferries Put To Sea In An Autonomous Ferry
Quote
The Falco used a combination of Rolls-Royce Ship Intelligence technologies to successfully navigate autonomously during its voyage between Parainen and Nauvo in the southwestern part of the country. It is equipped with a range of advanced sensors which allows it to build a detailed picture of its surroundings in real time and with a level of accuracy beyond that of the human eye according to a Rolls Royce press release. The vessel was able to avoid potential collisions along the route using sensor fusion and artificial intelligence.

The Falco is also equipped with an autonomous docking system that can reduce speed and guide the vessel to a safe and secure berth once it arrives at its destination. One additional advantage of the autonomous hardware and systems is that the vessel can be controlled remotely by a “virtual captain” at the Finferries operation center in the city of Turku, 50 kilometers away. The Falco made its way back to its point of origin by remote control. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/02/rolls-royce-finferries-put-to-sea-in-an-autonomous-ferry/



WHY?
Terry

Fewer crew are required.The crew can be sitting in an office anywhere with an internet connection (such as a call centre in India) and each crew can remotely operate multiple vessels. Mines are doing the same thing now. It saves them a bundle.

Saving bundles may be the present cause celebre, but when has a bundle ever done anything for you? Are bundles endangered? Are bundles to be hoarded like squirrels save walnuts, stashed in the crotch of a rotting Elm?

To the One in the Cloud


Our Father who began with cards
Hallorith was the name
Then Windows came
And Intel's shame
Was backdoors open to hackers


With hackers now well embedded
Security is a farce
Your secrets open
Your codes broken
In Finland
As it is in Delhi


Give us this day
Our daily fix
But forgive us our incredulity
As we forgive those who disbelieve us
And deliver us not with Rolls Royce Robots
But with  properly captained ships.


Ramen
Terry :)

Bruce Steele

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #183 on: January 03, 2019, 05:13:22 PM »
Thanks Terry, Had a good belly laugh over your poem . I just learned there is a program that would pay me $21,000
an acre to take my farmland totally out of production. So if they want ships without captains and farms without farming I am totally screwed. Since I am rather contrary the prospects are humorous. Not a fan of  killer drones either, or remotely operated mines . Maybe a suicide reimbursement could moderate population growth?  Who controls the levers on this madness ?and like some poor Pakistani
wedding recipient of our largess  who will receive retribution ? 

oren

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #184 on: January 03, 2019, 06:31:30 PM »
Terry, as someone who supports public transportation and is worried about operating costs, surely you can see that having less operating personnel could enable the opening of more public transport lines.
I recall many years ago traveling the Docklands Light Rail in London, raising my eyebrows at the driverless automated contraption. But if it enables more widespread service, I am all for it.
Though to be honest, I don't think a ferry is the best thing to automate, and would have serious qualms about traveling in such. But technology marches on, and eventually it will be safer and more reliable than the human operator.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #185 on: January 03, 2019, 08:33:47 PM »
Bruce
I've a residential property in So Cal and I could be induced to hang out a NOT FOR RENT sign on it if the remuneration were sufficient. ::)
Perhaps you should consider dividing your acreage into seven equal areas, then practicing crop rotation as it's done here among the Amish. One year of lying fallow out of every seven. 6 productive fields each year while the 7th replenishes itself & pays the taxman.
Alternatively perhaps hire a very good surveyor could draw up micro fields where the rows of crops would be counted as productive land, while the space between rows would be designated as "totally removed from production" 8)


It suddenly dawned on me that a "mine" might be either a purposefully built hole in the ground, or a military machine designed to consign shipping to a watery grave. While automating the former seems harmless enough, operating the later via an internet connection reduces the navy to the maritime equivalent of those brave air force lads who bomb and strafe from the safety of their swivel chairs, and the greatest danger they face is their daily commute.
I fear that it was military mines that Sebastian was referencing, and I missed it entirely. I've never had much use for the military, but if The Nuremberg Trials ever spawns a sequel I hope there are special tortures reserved for those that destroy so many while risking so little.
Terry

sidd

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #186 on: January 03, 2019, 08:49:34 PM »
Re: "One year of lying fallow out of every seven"

Is that enuf ? One in three is required in my experience, and that combined with the right winter cover crops and careful grazing of pasture.

sidd

Bruce Steele

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #187 on: January 03, 2019, 10:30:15 PM »
Terry, When I read "mine" I immediately thought of the kind that sinks ships. I don't know if an autonomous or remotely operated mobile device of this nature is already in existence but it may be the sort of military device that seems to be trending. I have never had any interest in war or even fighting but the farther we go from dealing with death at our own hands or waiting till you see the whites of their eyes the closer we get to the emotional disconnect that modern warfare allows. This does not end well. Satellites , spy drones, infrared , and all manner modern warfare takes us further and further from our responsibilities as humans for the death we are , in a free society? , responsible for.
 Even though your poem this morning got me started with a good laugh I have become very bummed as the day progresses. I consider myself lucky to have been physically connected to my work both swimming alone for over ten thousand hours of bottom time or farming and raising animals with both the calluses ,joys, heartaches attached.
 I have been the fisherman sitting in the negotiating chair as liberally motivated NGO's and government agencies shut down our fishing grounds as though all human intervention in nature was somehow evil. We obviously weren't compensated for closing a third of our fishing grounds . Even if there is money for returning prime bottom ground to weeds I wouldn't be a taker because I honestly believe with care, foresight , and commitment to adding organics while using little or no use of fossil fuels I can do a better job at restoring soil health and carbon.
 I gave up my cell phone a few years ago and I have been wondering if maybe the Internet is something I need to walk away from. Although I very much value the incredibly
 brilliant minds that daily post here the blind faith in progress, automation and mechanization that results in people without a purpose or people without pride in their human endeavors makes me wonder.....
Back on subject, at sea a deadhead is a log that has become waterlogged and floats vertically . It bobs as the swells pass and is invisible to radar because it only breaches the surface between the wave crests. The human eye can pick out these types of random hazards and that is why we man the helm even when the boat is on autopilot. We listen to the radio in case someone is in trouble , we slow down or change course to avoid the whales. We make the hard decisions when all hell breaks lose, and sometimes we just turn around because too many bad things start to Avalanche . Call that superstition.

 

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #188 on: January 03, 2019, 10:43:31 PM »
Terry, as someone who supports public transportation and is worried about operating costs, surely you can see that having less operating personnel could enable the opening of more public transport lines.
I recall many years ago traveling the Docklands Light Rail in London, raising my eyebrows at the driverless automated contraption. But if it enables more widespread service, I am all for it.
Though to be honest, I don't think a ferry is the best thing to automate, and would have serious qualms about traveling in such. But technology marches on, and eventually it will be safer and more reliable than the human operator.


After viewing the antics of the Ukrainian Tub Boat Captain in Kerch Strait last month I might concede that a remotely operated, even an autonomous Tugboat would be safer than allowing captains with Texas accents to operate in the Sea of Azov.
Kerch Strait is not the Wild West.


Ferries by design are built to carry large numbers of people, and ferry boat operators should be held to higher standards than operators of sea going ore carriers, tugs herding log booms or even bulk oil tankers.
Why would we laud a company for gambling the lives of their passengers, their crew, and any unfortunate who unexpectedly crossed their path against a portion of the wages due to the licensed seaman traditionally entrusted with their safety?
If they win they can't win as much as a captains salary. If they lose the losses are incalculable.


I don't believe that this is a serious proposal, but rather the opening of an Overton Window forcing many to see autonomous cars and trucks in a new, less threatening light.


If Rolls Royce and a Finnish Ferry Line are considering risking thousands of lives and multi-million dollar ships by leaving the driving to an Indian based Boiler Room/Bot Farm, then what's outrageous about a driverless micro van wending itself through residential Phoenix?
Can worries about an 80K pound autonomous semi weaving through rush hour traffic on an LA freeway compare to allowing a million pound vessel to dodge ships while avoiding ice and tidal currents in northern European ports?


Do you recall Musk's ill fated, and outrageously expensive, dream of an Alien Dreadnought that would autonomously produce cars without the need of human oversight? This cost him his shareholders a fortune and set his visions of automation back so far that he ended up building cars by hand in a temporary building.


Musk's blunder may yet cost him his company. If a ferry line were to somehow follow through with driverless ships carrying hundreds or thousands of passengers, and if this dream were to fail as spectacularly as Musk's Dreadnought failed, far more than dollars and one man's visions of infallibility would be lost.


Terry

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #189 on: January 04, 2019, 12:38:01 AM »
sidd
I'll not defend the 7 year cycle, it's something I think that I recall from my youth. For all I know it might have been passed down by a 10 year old blowhard trying to impress an 8 year old with his vast knowledge of the world. :)


Bruce
Sorry to hear that your day is headed south. Scratching a pigs snout always seemed to bring a little pleasure to both of our days - but the pig could gave been faking it. ::)


2019's been pleasurable so far. My young Chinese friend has turned down a teaching position at Harvard, so she'll hopefully remain close for at least the near future. The Serbian lass with a degree from Oxford that I'd advised to quit her very unrewarding job has found another - much to everyone's vast relief.
My friend's Neapolitan Style Pizza restaurant is wining acclaim with healthy food advocates, and he will probably survive in a very tight market.


Jeeze, I'm making it sound as though everything has a financial angle which is far from the truth.
The wife and I have been feted to holiday dinners by hosts from Poland, China, Serbia, England and Detroit. The pounds we've gained are international in scope.
Carole liked Canada when we arrived, now she's developing a zealotry sometimes witnessed in recent immigrants.


My club is in the planning stages for a Regional Gathering to be held this fall, and I may or may not do another presentation on the state of the ASI. If I do decide to go ahead with it I'll need to spend more time above the line.
I'll simply sit in the audience at Ontario Archaeology Society meetings this year. Too many years away from the field - any field. The Ancient Mariners Canoe Club has retained me on their membership list, and my canoe in their livery, but I'm too damn weak to paddle the river, maybe this summer will be different?


The local Mayor, City Counselor and Federal MP are all friends whose campaigns I'd worked on so I'm not as politically isolated as I once was. If I've regrets it's that I was never able to track down relatives or friends from my youth.- oh, that and the fact that herringbone tweed is now just another marijuana cultivar. :(


In all an auspicious beginning to 2019, and as always I owe much of my present joyous state to the companions found on this forum.


Stay Happy
Terry

BenB

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #190 on: June 03, 2019, 06:19:50 PM »
The world's most powerful all-electric ferry is about to start operating in Denmark:

https://www.marinelog.com/coastal/ferries/video-worlds-most-powerful-all-electric-ferry-set-to-debut/

It will operate between the islands of Ærø and Als, and the batteries will be recharged at the port of Søby on Ærø.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #191 on: August 03, 2019, 10:09:10 PM »
Ports of Auckland to get world's first fully-electric tug .

Quote
Ports of Auckland is claiming a first in its efforts to go zero-emissions within two decades.

It will replace its old diesel tug with the world's first-ever fully electric-powered one.

However, boatbuilders didn't want a bar of it, insisting tugs must be diesel-powered because they do the gruntiest work.

Hybrid maybe, but fully-powered by electricity - they said - was still four or five years away.

"It was like trying to run before you can walk.

That's what they thought I was saying but over a period of time they thought we were just not going to take no for an answer," says Ports of Auckland general manager Allan D'Souza.

The dilemma was Ports of Auckland needed a new tug with a 25-year lifespan but diesel was a no-no with the carbon zero goal.

So it cajoled shipbuilders Damen into inventing a battery-driven tug with the same grunt, only cleaner and quieter.
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/ports-of-auckland-to-get-worlds-first-fully-electric-tug/ar-AAFhxz9?ocid=ientp

DrTskoul

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #192 on: August 03, 2019, 10:12:44 PM »
These should be no problem nowadays. All new big ships have steerable electric engines. The gas or diesel fired engines are essentially powerplants  producing electricity.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #193 on: August 22, 2019, 01:46:08 AM »
World’s largest all-electric ferry completes its maiden trip
Quote
The world’s largest all-electric ferry, named Eferry Ellen, made its first commercial trip early this morning, Thursday, August 15, 2019, connecting the ports of Søby and Fynshav, on the islands of Aerø and Als, in southern Denmark. This revolutionary ship, capable of carrying approximately 30 vehicles and 200 passengers, is powered by a battery system with an unprecedented capacity of 4.3MWh provided by Leclanché SA (SIX: LECN), one of the world’s leading energy storage companies.
https://electrek.co/2019/08/21/worlds-largest-electric-ferry/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #194 on: August 22, 2019, 05:59:04 AM »

Thanks Sig

This sounds like a winner. The G-NMC & LTO batteries made by Leclanche are possibly state of the art. My bets are still on LiFePo4 tech, but both of Leclanche's batteries supposedly possess many of properties of LiFePo4 & might prove to be superior.


We'll know much more about both of these chemistries within a year.


Any idea which of Leclanche's batteries they're using on this project.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #195 on: August 22, 2019, 06:11:37 PM »

Thanks Sig

This sounds like a winner. The G-NMC & LTO batteries made by Leclanche are possibly state of the art. My bets are still on LiFePo4 tech, but both of Leclanche's batteries supposedly possess many of properties of LiFePo4 & might prove to be superior.


We'll know much more about both of these chemistries within a year.


Any idea which of Leclanche's batteries they're using on this project.
Terry

Found this at:  https://www.leclanche.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/LECLANCHE-FERRYWEB.pdf
 
Looks like G-NMC.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #196 on: August 22, 2019, 07:42:13 PM »
I haven't found much about the G-NMC technology other than Leclanche promotional articles.
If it works as advertised it could be a game changer.


O.T.
A while back you'd posted about a much improved electric motor. Have you retained any information about that beasty?
I'm terrible about losing links after I've posted them, but I'm hoping your book keeping is better than mine.


Thanks
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #197 on: August 22, 2019, 07:57:13 PM »

O.T.
A while back you'd posted about a much improved electric motor. Have you retained any information about that beasty?
I'm terrible about losing links after I've posted them, but I'm hoping your book keeping is better than mine.

Thanks
Terry

I’m not exactly sure which motor you refer to, but since my bookkeeping (and posting ;) ) is chockablock about Tesla, perhaps you are thinking of the new Tesla Raven upgrade?

Tesla is upgrading Model S/X with new, more efficient electric motors
https://electrek.co/2019/04/05/tesla-model-s-new-electric-motors/

Tesla Model X Raven makes quick work of Lamborghini Urus in quarter-mile race
https://izodnews.com/2019/07/07/tesla-model-x-raven-makes-quick-work-of-lamborghini-urus-in-quarter-mile-race-teslarati/


(He even turns off Launch Control on the last ones!)
‘Raven’ Tesla Model S Performance crushes muscle cars in multiple drag races
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-performance-raven-vs-muscle-cars-drag-race-video/

People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #198 on: August 22, 2019, 08:13:19 PM »
Sig
Thanks for the effort, but that wasn't the one I was curious about.


It wasn't an article by Fred or one of the other Tesla or Pro-Tesla sites. As I recall it was an article about the inventor or manufacturer of the engine. I don't recall if it was an advanced Nicola Tesla A/C design or an advanced DC (Edison) design. Something that had been developed in Europe?, quite recently and after the Raven was introduced.


I'll see what I can dig up.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Ships and boats
« Reply #199 on: October 06, 2019, 02:51:01 PM »
Global Shipping Is Making False Impressions About Circumventing Pollution — Billions Spent On "Cheat Devices"
Quote
Global shipping companies are rigging vessels with “cheat devices,” even to the tune of billions of dollars, to create a false impression. By circumventing new environmental legislation, they are simply dumping pollution into the sea to protect the air. Seems a case of cutting off one’s foot instead of one’s hand, metaphorically.

Will Crisp of The Independent follows the money: “More than $12bn (£9.7bn) has been spent on the devices, known as open-loop scrubbers, which extract Sulphur from the exhaust fumes of ships that run on heavy fuel oil.”
...
There are increasing concerns in all directions, as the vessels will then meet the coming standards demanded by the International Maritime Organization (IMO), which start in January, but they are simply re-directing the exhaust from air to water, which will also increase carbon dioxide emissions, saving nothing in net. The British waters will be compromised.

Crisp continues (via The Independent): “For every ton of fuel burned, ships using open-loop scrubbers emit approximately 45 tons of warm, acidic, contaminated washwater containing carcinogens including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and heavy metals, according to theInternational Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT), a non-profit organization that provides scientific analysis to environmental regulators.

“Increasing volumes of wastewater will create toxic sediment around ports and could have a devastating effect on the wildlife in British waters, according to Lucy Gilliam, a campaigner for Transport and Environment, a Brussels-based NGO.

“‘In the North Sea and some parts of the Channel, the water quality has already been heavily degraded,’ she said. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/05/global-shipping-is-making-false-impressions-about-circumventing-pollution-billions-spent-on-cheat-devices/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.